the Lions, there's a very good chance he will be there at 11. Lions are starting over, new coach, new GM, Campbell kind of seems like an old school guy that wants to rebuild the lines, maybe they would go for someone like Slater, Vera-Tucker, or even Paye with their pick
I’m really getting the feeling that DeVonta Smith will go to the Dolphins and that Paye will be the pick. Not that I would be upset, I like Paye the most of the EDGE guys. I’m thinking 4-6 is gonna go.
And I get the feeling (mostly just feeling) that they will value EDGE more than Waddle as a 3rd or 4th WR. I don’t see Waddle playing in 2 WR sets. I could see Smith playing the 2nd outside WR but that’s not something Waddle was ever asked to do. He was predominantly a Slot and Special teams guy.
And if Giants are that stupid to just take Paye over Waddle... YIKES! if they want Paye or Azeez(I don’t want either in round 1) there’s real issues. They become a Golladay injury from the same bad WR group as last year. They won’t neglect the OL until round 3 or hope not. Fields also won’t magically fall to Patriots lap at 15.
Parker, Fuller, and Preston Williams as the #3, their OL is pretty average but they did take Jackson in round 1 last year. They definitely don't need corner. Their biggest needs seem to be LB, S, WR, and interior OL
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
And say it's their division rival Washington, would the Giants help them get their franchise QB? An interesting question.
And if Giants are that stupid to just take Paye over Waddle... YIKES! if they want Paye or Azeez(I don’t want either in round 1) there’s real issues. They become a Golladay injury from the same bad WR group as last year. They won’t neglect the OL until round 3 or hope not. Fields also won’t magically fall to Patriots lap at 15.
I can see passing on Waddle. He has not demonsrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury. Smith lit up the Ohio State secondary in the National Championship Game. Against the same opposition Waddle could only manage 3 catches for 34 yards. If we don't draft an EDGE and Lorenzo Carter or Oshane Ximines gets hurt we are left with a worse group than last year since we don't even have Fackrell.
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
Bernie has it. You shop the pick quickly to see if you can get good value for teams interested in the best available QBs.
If not enough value or too big a drop, pick Waddle.
True, forgot Waddle was there. Yeah, that should be the pick. Although if they really want an ER and Fields is there, I'd explore the trade down option.
Everyone always says "trade down" when it isn't a viable option, but this is one scenario where there should almost certainly be a legit trade down partner.
A larger James Harrison, IMO. Don’t think he’s a perfect fit for us, but the Talent is undeniable. Really strong and has burst, can rush inside as well.
I don’t think he’s a reach. If the board fell this way, we would have to trade back as their would be teams coming up for Lance and Fields. I can’t see either getting out of the top 11.
And if Giants are that stupid to just take Paye over Waddle... YIKES! if they want Paye or Azeez(I don’t want either in round 1) there’s real issues. They become a Golladay injury from the same bad WR group as last year. They won’t neglect the OL until round 3 or hope not. Fields also won’t magically fall to Patriots lap at 15.
I can see passing on Waddle. He has not demonsrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury. Smith lit up the Ohio State secondary in the National Championship Game. Against the same opposition Waddle could only manage 3 catches for 34 yards. If we don't draft an EDGE and Lorenzo Carter or Oshane Ximines gets hurt we are left with a worse group than last year since we don't even have Fackrell.
Waddle played both outside and from the slot at Alabama. He can do either, and he'll be really good wherever he lines up. The surgery is not a long-term concern. Both Kenyan Drake and Derrick Henry had the same surgery while at Alabama.
"He has demonstrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury."
Get real man. He played in one game since he got hurt, the Natty, which he lobbied to play in despite not being fully recovered. He was SUPPOSED to miss the entire rest of the season. He was never supposed to play in that game.
So what other games was he supposed to demonstrate that he's the same player. This is a freak athlete you watch a year from now and say, "why didn't we take this guy?"
And if Giants are that stupid to just take Paye over Waddle... YIKES! if they want Paye or Azeez(I don’t want either in round 1) there’s real issues. They become a Golladay injury from the same bad WR group as last year. They won’t neglect the OL until round 3 or hope not. Fields also won’t magically fall to Patriots lap at 15.
I can see passing on Waddle. He has not demonsrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury. Smith lit up the Ohio State secondary in the National Championship Game. Against the same opposition Waddle could only manage 3 catches for 34 yards. If we don't draft an EDGE and Lorenzo Carter or Oshane Ximines gets hurt we are left with a worse group than last year since we don't even have Fackrell.
Waddle played both outside and from the slot at Alabama. He can do either, and he'll be really good wherever he lines up. The surgery is not a long-term concern. Both Kenyan Drake and Derrick Henry had the same surgery while at Alabama.
He relies on his explosion and is not a power guy like Drake or Henry. If he can't come back anywhere near the same level then I want no part of him. So far he has not been able to demonstrate that.
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
And say it's their division rival Washington, would the Giants help them get their franchise QB? An interesting question.
And if the Giants opt not to help WFT in that scenario - which is justifiable - they could also be gift-wrapping that same QB to Philly right behind us. Unless you feel like Philly is honestly committed to Hurts, I think having Philly sitting at #12 could make dealing with WFT at least a little bit more palatable.
Let's just hope it's moot and that all the top QB prospects go in the top 10.
of Paye really made me think a lot higher of his potential.
I agree with you, as you know.
I'm still hoping for one of the dynamic offensive weapons to fall to #11, but I'm not counting on it. I would be excited about Paye in Graham's scheme. I feel like KP is a front-7 Swiss Army knife, and PG is MacGyver. I'd love to see Graham deploy a player like Paye.
For the record, Parsons is my favorite defender in this draft and it's not even close, but I'm assuming he's off the Giants' board from what we've heard.
of Paye really made me think a lot higher of his potential.
I agree with you, as you know.
I'm still hoping for one of the dynamic offensive weapons to fall to #11, but I'm not counting on it. I would be excited about Paye in Graham's scheme. I feel like KP is a front-7 Swiss Army knife, and PG is MacGyver. I'd love to see Graham deploy a player like Paye.
For the record, Parsons is my favorite defender in this draft and it's not even close, but I'm assuming he's off the Giants' board from what we've heard.
+1 (each)
I don't consider Paye a reach at all - many scouts are very high on
I would prefer we trade down and get more draft capitol for the other quality players we'd be passing on.
If we wanted Paye I would be happy about it because of his size and quickness off of the line. He is a lot like Jason Tuck (I know I know) in that he is quick, strong, and intelligent. He is a guy that could be an every down player in that he can line up anywhere you want him so long as he is allowed to shoot the gaps.
It depends what we want to do defensively. We showed multiple different fronts last year, it's not like we were always in a 3-4. Talent dictates scheme. You get the best damn guys you can get and bend the scheme to your talents. We are more solid in the back seven so I expect more blitzing. I will learn to like whomever we choose and it will be interesting to see what we do with what we get. Paye might even be able to handle some short zone coverages and playing rush snaps as a 3-4 end if we want. He is a versatile and talented player. I could get onboard easily.
It is starting to become apparent that we can get some great interior O-linemen and WR prospects further down on day two of the draft. If the value is there in the first round for a great defensive player, but then we see the value drop off quickly we might want to get the best defender we can get in the first round. Ideally I'd like a great defender after a trade down then trade Evan Ingram for a 3 & a 5 or a 2 plus we give up a future pick. We could then pick two interior O-linemen and a 2-way TE on day two; day three we could go with a RB and a WR or two.
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
And say it's their division rival Washington, would the Giants help them get their franchise QB? An interesting question.
Snyder hates John Mara with every fiber of his being because of a cap violation he and Jerrah did 10 years ago that Mara pushed for them to be punished for. If you go over to his forum (extremeskins), they hate the Giants worse than the Cowboys!
Add to that the Giants absolutely own WTF like the Eagles own us.
Bottom line - no way they'd ever make a trade with us.
are there at #11 that would be extremely interesting. And we would have to take one and trade Jones if we couldn't find a trading partner.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
So if NFL teams thought as highly as you do of Fields and Lance, why would they both fall to 11 and then follow up with nobody wanting to trade up for them? Your scenario playing out like that probably has zero chance of happening. They both drop AND no trade partner when they do? If it did happen that would be a major red flag, IMO.
are there at #11 that would be extremely interesting. And we would have to take one and trade Jones if we couldn't find a trading partner.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
So if NFL teams thought as highly as you do of Fields and Lance, why would they both fall to 11 and then follow up with nobody wanting to trade up for them? Your scenario playing out like that probably has zero chance of happening. They both drop AND no trade partner when they do? If it did happen that would be a major red flag, IMO.
I don't disagree, but I'm playing along with Casserly's predictions.
Stranger things have happened with great QBs dropping - Marino, Rodgers, etc.
this is actually the most realistic draft scenario I've seen
I am not a believer in this QB class -- Jets and SF are fools to spend the 2nd and 3rd pick on those QBs but it does look like they are going to do it but it will not surprise me that they are doing that -- no other teams in the top ten should waste their pics on any of thes QBs (other than the Clemson QB)
RE: this is actually the most realistic draft scenario I've seen
I am not a believer in this QB class -- Jets and SF are fools to spend the 2nd and 3rd pick on those QBs but it does look like they are going to do it but it will not surprise me that they are doing that -- no other teams in the top ten should waste their pics on any of thes QBs (other than the Clemson QB)
I came here to say this. First off, 4 qbs in the first 4 picks would be absolutely unprecedented, I just don’t see it. Additionally, half the top 10 picks would be equally unprecedented. Even the year of Mayfield, Darnold, et al, a QB draft class that was more highly touted, even saw Lamar drop to the back end of the first round. I think anyone not named Lawrence is a reach at the places they’re being mocked. Jets and SF seem prime to make those decisions, but even then I don’t agree.
My only hope is that New England trades up to us if it falls this way. People keep saying Smith will fall to us but I just don’t see it, unless someone likes Waddle more.
With D Smith, Parsons, Surtain and D Smith all gone, this is the trade down scenario.
Drop to #15 with New England and get an extra 2021 2nd rounder or drop to #20 with Chicago and get a 2021 2nd and 3rd.
I’d rather attempt to do the above than draft Waddle or someone else at #11, given who is already gone.
Again, very unlikely IMHO that only 3 QBs are taken in the top 10.
4. Falcons - Kyle Pitts
5. Bengals - Ja’Marr Chase
6. Dolphins - DeVonta Smith
And I get the feeling (mostly just feeling) that they will value EDGE more than Waddle as a 3rd or 4th WR. I don’t see Waddle playing in 2 WR sets. I could see Smith playing the 2nd outside WR but that’s not something Waddle was ever asked to do. He was predominantly a Slot and Special teams guy.
With a draft deep at OL & WR, hit it later.
They could take Parsons
And say it's their division rival Washington, would the Giants help them get their franchise QB? An interesting question.
I can see passing on Waddle. He has not demonsrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury. Smith lit up the Ohio State secondary in the National Championship Game. Against the same opposition Waddle could only manage 3 catches for 34 yards. If we don't draft an EDGE and Lorenzo Carter or Oshane Ximines gets hurt we are left with a worse group than last year since we don't even have Fackrell.
A QB, Slater or Surtain is what I've seen.
Denver is the wild card
Bernie has it. You shop the pick quickly to see if you can get good value for teams interested in the best available QBs.
If not enough value or too big a drop, pick Waddle.
And get ready for Round 2.
Everyone always says "trade down" when it isn't a viable option, but this is one scenario where there should almost certainly be a legit trade down partner.
I don’t think he’s a reach. If the board fell this way, we would have to trade back as their would be teams coming up for Lance and Fields. I can’t see either getting out of the top 11.
Quote:
And if Giants are that stupid to just take Paye over Waddle... YIKES! if they want Paye or Azeez(I don’t want either in round 1) there’s real issues. They become a Golladay injury from the same bad WR group as last year. They won’t neglect the OL until round 3 or hope not. Fields also won’t magically fall to Patriots lap at 15.
I can see passing on Waddle. He has not demonsrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury. Smith lit up the Ohio State secondary in the National Championship Game. Against the same opposition Waddle could only manage 3 catches for 34 yards. If we don't draft an EDGE and Lorenzo Carter or Oshane Ximines gets hurt we are left with a worse group than last year since we don't even have Fackrell.
Waddle played both outside and from the slot at Alabama. He can do either, and he'll be really good wherever he lines up. The surgery is not a long-term concern. Both Kenyan Drake and Derrick Henry had the same surgery while at Alabama.
Get real man. He played in one game since he got hurt, the Natty, which he lobbied to play in despite not being fully recovered. He was SUPPOSED to miss the entire rest of the season. He was never supposed to play in that game.
So what other games was he supposed to demonstrate that he's the same player. This is a freak athlete you watch a year from now and say, "why didn't we take this guy?"
Why?
If Waddle has injury concerns what player isn't a reach with this draft? Vera Tucker?
Quote:
In comment 15221531 UGADawgs7 said:
Quote:
And if Giants are that stupid to just take Paye over Waddle... YIKES! if they want Paye or Azeez(I don’t want either in round 1) there’s real issues. They become a Golladay injury from the same bad WR group as last year. They won’t neglect the OL until round 3 or hope not. Fields also won’t magically fall to Patriots lap at 15.
I can see passing on Waddle. He has not demonsrated that he is anywhere close to the player he was before the injury. Smith lit up the Ohio State secondary in the National Championship Game. Against the same opposition Waddle could only manage 3 catches for 34 yards. If we don't draft an EDGE and Lorenzo Carter or Oshane Ximines gets hurt we are left with a worse group than last year since we don't even have Fackrell.
Waddle played both outside and from the slot at Alabama. He can do either, and he'll be really good wherever he lines up. The surgery is not a long-term concern. Both Kenyan Drake and Derrick Henry had the same surgery while at Alabama.
He relies on his explosion and is not a power guy like Drake or Henry. If he can't come back anywhere near the same level then I want no part of him. So far he has not been able to demonstrate that.
Again, not saying he is good or not worth the 11th pick, I am just asking if he would be an idea fit.
Quote:
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
And say it's their division rival Washington, would the Giants help them get their franchise QB? An interesting question.
And if the Giants opt not to help WFT in that scenario - which is justifiable - they could also be gift-wrapping that same QB to Philly right behind us. Unless you feel like Philly is honestly committed to Hurts, I think having Philly sitting at #12 could make dealing with WFT at least a little bit more palatable.
Let's just hope it's moot and that all the top QB prospects go in the top 10.
Again, not saying he is good or not worth the 11th pick, I am just asking if he would be an idea fit.
Something for every occasion, you know? Some days you need a rushbacker, others a 4-3 end, depends on what the Giants are facing.
I agree with you, as you know.
I'm still hoping for one of the dynamic offensive weapons to fall to #11, but I'm not counting on it. I would be excited about Paye in Graham's scheme. I feel like KP is a front-7 Swiss Army knife, and PG is MacGyver. I'd love to see Graham deploy a player like Paye.
For the record, Parsons is my favorite defender in this draft and it's not even close, but I'm assuming he's off the Giants' board from what we've heard.
Quote:
of Paye really made me think a lot higher of his potential.
I agree with you, as you know.
I'm still hoping for one of the dynamic offensive weapons to fall to #11, but I'm not counting on it. I would be excited about Paye in Graham's scheme. I feel like KP is a front-7 Swiss Army knife, and PG is MacGyver. I'd love to see Graham deploy a player like Paye.
For the record, Parsons is my favorite defender in this draft and it's not even close, but I'm assuming he's off the Giants' board from what we've heard.
If we wanted Paye I would be happy about it because of his size and quickness off of the line. He is a lot like Jason Tuck (I know I know) in that he is quick, strong, and intelligent. He is a guy that could be an every down player in that he can line up anywhere you want him so long as he is allowed to shoot the gaps.
It depends what we want to do defensively. We showed multiple different fronts last year, it's not like we were always in a 3-4. Talent dictates scheme. You get the best damn guys you can get and bend the scheme to your talents. We are more solid in the back seven so I expect more blitzing. I will learn to like whomever we choose and it will be interesting to see what we do with what we get. Paye might even be able to handle some short zone coverages and playing rush snaps as a 3-4 end if we want. He is a versatile and talented player. I could get onboard easily.
It is starting to become apparent that we can get some great interior O-linemen and WR prospects further down on day two of the draft. If the value is there in the first round for a great defensive player, but then we see the value drop off quickly we might want to get the best defender we can get in the first round. Ideally I'd like a great defender after a trade down then trade Evan Ingram for a 3 & a 5 or a 2 plus we give up a future pick. We could then pick two interior O-linemen and a 2-way TE on day two; day three we could go with a RB and a WR or two.
Paye's a reach, but Waddle's not. Right.
Surtain (Sewell, Pitts and Chase aren't reaches at #11; they'll be long gone).
Quote:
I would absolutely pick someones pocket for a future #1 and trade back. With Lance and Fields available, there will be teams looking to move up and pay that kind of ransom. A trade back for anything less would be a kick in the balls.
And say it's their division rival Washington, would the Giants help them get their franchise QB? An interesting question.
Snyder hates John Mara with every fiber of his being because of a cap violation he and Jerrah did 10 years ago that Mara pushed for them to be punished for. If you go over to his forum (extremeskins), they hate the Giants worse than the Cowboys!
Add to that the Giants absolutely own WTF like the Eagles own us.
Bottom line - no way they'd ever make a trade with us.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
If you want Lance to be your unquestioned starter this year you are setting yourself up for a major bust.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
So if NFL teams thought as highly as you do of Fields and Lance, why would they both fall to 11 and then follow up with nobody wanting to trade up for them? Your scenario playing out like that probably has zero chance of happening. They both drop AND no trade partner when they do? If it did happen that would be a major red flag, IMO.
Quote:
are there at #11 that would be extremely interesting. And we would have to take one and trade Jones if we couldn't find a trading partner.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
If you want Lance to be your unquestioned starter this year you are setting yourself up for a major bust.
If both are there, I'm going Fields first. And, yes, I would be willing to have him start immediately and deal with the growing pains.
Lance would probably be better served sitting behind a vet, assuming he would need time to adjust to the speed of the game.
But obviously this is academic...
Quote:
are there at #11 that would be extremely interesting. And we would have to take one and trade Jones if we couldn't find a trading partner.
Both are considerably more skilled than Jones and worth gambling on for a QB reset.
So if NFL teams thought as highly as you do of Fields and Lance, why would they both fall to 11 and then follow up with nobody wanting to trade up for them? Your scenario playing out like that probably has zero chance of happening. They both drop AND no trade partner when they do? If it did happen that would be a major red flag, IMO.
I don't disagree, but I'm playing along with Casserly's predictions.
Stranger things have happened with great QBs dropping - Marino, Rodgers, etc.
I came here to say this. First off, 4 qbs in the first 4 picks would be absolutely unprecedented, I just don’t see it. Additionally, half the top 10 picks would be equally unprecedented. Even the year of Mayfield, Darnold, et al, a QB draft class that was more highly touted, even saw Lamar drop to the back end of the first round. I think anyone not named Lawrence is a reach at the places they’re being mocked. Jets and SF seem prime to make those decisions, but even then I don’t agree.
My only hope is that New England trades up to us if it falls this way. People keep saying Smith will fall to us but I just don’t see it, unless someone likes Waddle more.