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Marc Ross regrets not pushing more to draft Russell Wilson

Sean : 4/15/2021 11:17 am
Quote:
Pat Leonard
@PLeonardNYDN
·
3m
Ex- #Giants VP of player evaluation Marc Ross, asked by Kevin if he could take one mulligan on a draft pick in his career, says in hindsight he would fight harder to draft Russell Wilson. Says then-NYG scout Ryan Jones said: “this guy’s the next Drew Brees.” What could have been

From today’s NFL Ringer podcast.
Ross would need alot of mulligans  
George from PA : 4/15/2021 11:19 am : link
.
And I regret Marc Ross.  
JoeMorrison40 : 4/15/2021 11:19 am : link
.
in other news,  
Pork Chop : 4/15/2021 11:19 am : link
Pork Chop regrets not buying Amazon stock in 1998.
Life has many regrets...  
BamaBlue : 4/15/2021 11:19 am : link
when you use hindsight as a yard stick.
Bullshit  
Jay on the Island : 4/15/2021 11:20 am : link
I don’t believe a word this guy says.
Wilson  
Everyone Relax : 4/15/2021 11:20 am : link
was drafted in the 3rd round. Every GM and scout regrets passing on him. Also, Drew Brees is a pretty strange comp for him.
after they had just won the Super Bowl?  
KDavies : 4/15/2021 11:20 am : link
yeah, it wasn't happening.
Dnew regrets  
Dnew15 : 4/15/2021 11:21 am : link
opting to drink so many beers last night.
so on brand for him  
bigbluehoya : 4/15/2021 11:22 am : link
I had it totally right, I just didn't pound the table hard enough for it
In other news.... Russell Wilson super thankful....  
Britt in VA : 4/15/2021 11:22 am : link
that Ross didn't.
The pairing..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/15/2021 11:24 am : link
of Ross with Leonard sends the bullshit meter right off the charts.

If he really had to fight hard to get the team to draft Wilson, who lasted to the 3rd round, I really doubt it. Maybe he think this in retrospect after seeing wilson's career, but at the time, if they drafted a QB, it would have been strictly to be a backup
This guy  
Lines of Scrimmage : 4/15/2021 11:25 am : link
has all the traits of a narcissist.
slow news day  
UConn4523 : 4/15/2021 11:26 am : link
looking forward to reading about all the ex-Execs pissed that they didn't push hard enough for Brady.
RE: The pairing..  
eric2425ny : 4/15/2021 11:26 am : link
In comment 15221695 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of Ross with Leonard sends the bullshit meter right off the charts.

If he really had to fight hard to get the team to draft Wilson, who lasted to the 3rd round, I really doubt it. Maybe he think this in retrospect after seeing wilson's career, but at the time, if they drafted a QB, it would have been strictly to be a backup


Ha ha, the bullshit meter is like This is Spinal Tap where they turn the dial up to 11.
confusing....  
BillKo : 4/15/2021 11:27 am : link
.....Ross wanted Ross for the Giants in 2012 draft....that makes no sense.

With Eli still in his prime and off a year that he really was the MVP and won the SB?



Ross is delusional enough to believe that's what his problem was  
ghost718 : 4/15/2021 11:27 am : link
.
RE: confusing....  
BillKo : 4/15/2021 11:27 am : link
In comment 15221702 BillKo said:
Quote:
.....Ross wanted Ross for the Giants in 2012 draft....that makes no sense.

With Eli still in his prime and off a year that he really was the MVP and won the SB?




Ross wanted Wilson**
interesting story about passing on Russell Wilson  
KDavies : 4/15/2021 11:29 am : link
I am in the Dolphins market, so listen to a lot of their local radio. Barry Alvarez interviewed for the Dolphins head-coach position that offseason.

He was asked something to the effect of what was one thing he would do in order to improve the Dolphins. He emphatically said, "Draft Russell Wilson!"

He didn't get the job. Dolphins passed on Wilson, drafting Tannehill at #8 (Keuchly was #9). Dolphins drafted the infamous Jonathan Martin in the 2nd. And Vernon in the 3rd, a couple picks before Wilson.

That is a team that should be pissed about passing on Wilson. Not a team that just won the Super Bowl.
RE: The pairing..  
BillKo : 4/15/2021 11:29 am : link
In comment 15221695 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
of Ross with Leonard sends the bullshit meter right off the charts.

If he really had to fight hard to get the team to draft Wilson, who lasted to the 3rd round, I really doubt it. Maybe he think this in retrospect after seeing wilson's career, but at the time, if they drafted a QB, it would have been strictly to be a backup


Exactly.

And if the concept is Eli declined quickly and Wilson was ready to step in....well...that's just going back in history and setting yourself up to succeed.

The drafting should have been to build around Eli more and protect him.
.  
Bricktop : 4/15/2021 11:30 am : link
IMHO Ross Came Across Really Poorly  
Trainmaster : 4/15/2021 11:32 am : link
on the "Finding Giants" special. After that show, it was clear to me he was among our biggest problems in finding the right talent.

He was so full of himself, it was nauseating.

Not listening to McAdoo about trading up for Mahomes  
90.Cal : 4/15/2021 11:32 am : link
Should be on the top of Reese's/Ross's list.
Just kidding  
90.Cal : 4/15/2021 11:33 am : link
I have no idea if thats really true
And the NY Giants regret that the NFL Network  
NYGgolfer : 4/15/2021 11:33 am : link
didn't hire Marc Ross earlier than did.
RE: Just kidding  
BillKo : 4/15/2021 11:35 am : link
In comment 15221719 90.Cal said:
Quote:
I have no idea if thats really true


I am sure it's true.......Mac probably really liked him. So did other HC's I am sure.

But it's just a question of whether they want to pull the trigger on a trade. That doesn't always happen.

We can say this about a lot of players, but I think Mac gets too much credit in this area.

He was a poor HC.
It’s a good listen..  
Sean : 4/15/2021 11:35 am : link
Ross confirmed there was a leaker in the building which cost them Leonard Floyd. Also wanted Conklin that year.
I see...  
Anakim : 4/15/2021 11:37 am : link
So Marc Ross would've drafted a QB on Day 2 of the Draft after Eli just led us to the Super Bowl.



Alright, Jan...
This  
AcidTest : 4/15/2021 11:41 am : link
is ridiculous. We had Eli, who wasn't anywhere close to retirement. I bet a lot of teams regret not drafting Wilson, Brady, Marino, etc.
Oh please.  
Mike from SI : 4/15/2021 11:43 am : link
What bullshit. As a friend in baseball tells me, "every GM either has an excuse why they didn't draft Mike Trout or swears they would have drafted Mike Trout if he had fallen to them."

Really easy to do this stuff in hindsight.
RE: I see...  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 11:45 am : link
In comment 15221730 Anakim said:
Quote:
So Marc Ross would've drafted a QB on Day 2 of the Draft after Eli just led us to the Super Bowl.



Alright, Jan...


It actually would have been a great move, in hindsight.
His  
Toth029 : 4/15/2021 11:46 am : link
Bullshit meter is always on.
Wilson  
Toth029 : 4/15/2021 11:49 am : link
Without a top flight defense or top flight running game? That would have ended well.

His diva attitude with Coughlin, too. Throwing other players under the bus.
RE: And I regret Marc Ross.  
Tuckrule : 4/15/2021 11:49 am : link
In comment 15221681 JoeMorrison40 said:
Quote:
.


+1. Horrible evaluator
hey, at least he pounded the table for Davis Webb  
Eric on Li : 4/15/2021 11:49 am : link
I wonder if they ever got the keys to the gym back from him.
RE: RE: I see...  
KDavies : 4/15/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15221743 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15221730 Anakim said:


Quote:


So Marc Ross would've drafted a QB on Day 2 of the Draft after Eli just led us to the Super Bowl.



Alright, Jan...



It actually would have been a great move, in hindsight.


There's so many variables beyond just drafting him. Does Wilson get enough reps in practice? If he doesn't, maybe he doesn't show enough to become what he did. If he does, does he still ride the pine behind a 2 time SB winning QB? Do the Giants just trade him to avoid a QB controversy? Does Wilson show better than Eli? Do they have a QB controversy? What is the outcome of the Giants replacing a 2 time SB winning QB with a young, unproven QB? Etc.

....  
BrettNYG10 : 4/15/2021 11:50 am : link
Wilson grew into an elite QB - sort of like Roethlisberger did. I don't know if Wilson develops the same way with the Giants. The Seahawks were a pretty good situation to step into. They were 7-9 with Tavaris Jackson as the starter in 2011.
Reese regrets hiring Ross.  
George from PA : 4/15/2021 11:54 am : link
.
RE: ....  
bLiTz 2k : 4/15/2021 11:54 am : link
In comment 15221756 BrettNYG10 said:
Quote:
Wilson grew into an elite QB - sort of like Roethlisberger did. I don't know if Wilson develops the same way with the Giants. The Seahawks were a pretty good situation to step into. They were 7-9 with Tavaris Jackson as the starter in 2011.


rip
Why  
AcidTest : 4/15/2021 11:56 am : link
should he have any regrets about not drafting Wilson? He drafted Ryan Nassib, Rhett Bomar, Andre Woodson, and Davis Webb.
RE: RE: I see...  
Anakim : 4/15/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15221743 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15221730 Anakim said:


Quote:


So Marc Ross would've drafted a QB on Day 2 of the Draft after Eli just led us to the Super Bowl.



Alright, Jan...



It actually would have been a great move, in hindsight.


"In hindsight" being the key phrase
I can think of a few more mulligans I wish Ross  
mfsd : 4/15/2021 12:04 pm : link
could have for the drafts he ran
It is so stupid, Eli manning  
Essex : 4/15/2021 12:07 pm : link
was coming off hid second super bowl MVP and he never missed a game due to injury, taking a qb in the end of the second round would have been so ridiculously dumb.
The implication is that he knew something nobody did.  
Ron Johnson : 4/15/2021 12:08 pm : link
He didn't fight harder because he didn't have a strong conviction. It's that simple.
RE: Ross would need alot of mulligans  
j_rud : 4/15/2021 12:10 pm : link
In comment 15221680 George from PA said:
Quote:
.


More than an Irish church
I am sure there are Giant fans  
HomerJones45 : 4/15/2021 12:10 pm : link
who regret not pushing Ross over the Mezzanine. Enough with this clown.
RE: I see...  
ZogZerg : 4/15/2021 12:12 pm : link
In comment 15221730 Anakim said:
Quote:
So Marc Ross would've drafted a QB on Day 2 of the Draft after Eli just led us to the Super Bowl.



Alright, Jan...


A day 2 SECOND ROUND PICK.

This guy is a complete clown show.
So Marc Ross is trying to pad his resume with phantom achievements  
sb from NYT Forum : 4/15/2021 12:12 pm : link
... What's next? "I would have picked every pro-bowler that was picked after the Giants picked!"
It's weird how  
PwndPapi : 4/15/2021 12:15 pm : link
fans with little to no knowledge of how draft planning happens at an organizational level always gravitate towards one whipping boy when things go sideways. Despite the fact that it's probably a collaborative effort, with the GM and ownership weighing in frequently.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge on the NYG or Ross. I just find it weird that so many here believe they do.
Does Marc Ross also regret not pushing more for David Bakhtiari?  
Anakim : 4/15/2021 12:19 pm : link
.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/15/2021 12:25 pm : link
Sure Marc, sure.
.  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 12:26 pm : link
Next time someone tells you not to doubt anything the Giants do because they're professionals and you aren't... remember that Ross himself was also a professional.
RE: RE: RE: I see...  
Bill L : 4/15/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15221774 Anakim said:
Quote:
In comment 15221743 Go Terps said:


Quote:


In comment 15221730 Anakim said:


Quote:


So Marc Ross would've drafted a QB on Day 2 of the Draft after Eli just led us to the Super Bowl.



Alright, Jan...



It actually would have been a great move, in hindsight.



"In hindsight" being the key phrase
Are you recommending the KC draft a QB on the second day?
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 4/15/2021 12:30 pm : link
& I'm assuming 'Kevin' is Kevin Clarke, who I have am unhealthy dislike for a man I've never met/one of the most punchable mugs you'll ever see.
RE: It's weird how  
LauderdaleMatty : 4/15/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15221799 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
fans with little to no knowledge of how draft planning happens at an organizational level always gravitate towards one whipping boy when things go sideways. Despite the fact that it's probably a collaborative effort, with the GM and ownership weighing in frequently.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge on the NYG or Ross. I just find it weird that so many here believe they do.


Hi M Ross. U sucked. Bye
RE: It's weird how  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15221799 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
fans with little to no knowledge of how draft planning happens at an organizational level always gravitate towards one whipping boy when things go sideways. Despite the fact that it's probably a collaborative effort, with the GM and ownership weighing in frequently.



Its only a collaborative effort when it suits the interest of defending the front office personnel. But when that interest is no longer required its usually time to play...

BBI PILE ON!
Forget Ross but anybody who saw Russell play in college knew he would  
Spider56 : 4/15/2021 12:40 pm : link
be special in the pros. I watched him lead magical comebacks at NCSt for 3 years and then as he went to Wisconsin and became their respected leader before the start of the season. Very few college QBs had that kind of success at 2 very different systems / schools. The guy just knows how to lead and win. Ross, not so much.
...  
christian : 4/15/2021 12:41 pm : link
Doesn't read like Ross taking credit for wanting Wilson -- he's giving a nod to Ryan Jones.
RE: ...  
PwndPapi : 4/15/2021 12:51 pm : link
In comment 15221835 christian said:
Quote:
Doesn't read like Ross taking credit for wanting Wilson -- he's giving a nod to Ryan Jones.


Exactly.
RE: This guy  
Ivan15 : 4/15/2021 1:00 pm : link
In comment 15221697 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
has all the traits of a narcissist.


A true narcissist never regrets any of his actions and blames everyone else for anything that went wrong. Ross is only a half-narcissist.
...  
christian : 4/15/2021 1:08 pm : link
That quote sounds like a guy saying "I regret not listening to my scout." Seems like a case where the scout was all over a prospect, and he didn't listen.

The Giants drafted a QB at the 110th spot in 2014, it's not crazy to think they would navigate to draft a QB at 75 a year earlier.

RE: RE: RE: RE: I see...  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 1:17 pm : link
In comment 15221820 Bill L said:
Quote:
Are you recommending the KC draft a QB on the second day?


It's never a bad thing to draft a good player.

I think drafting well in the NFL is less about evaluating pick by pick, and more about the overarching policies that govern how you draft.

Drafting good players even if you have a good player(s) at that position gives you options. You can choose to go forward with improved depth, you can choose to trade the established player, or you can choose to flip the drafted player for more draft picks. Good problem to have.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I see...  
Bill L : 4/15/2021 1:19 pm : link
In comment 15221882 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15221820 Bill L said:


Quote:


Are you recommending the KC draft a QB on the second day?



It's never a bad thing to draft a good player.

I think drafting well in the NFL is less about evaluating pick by pick, and more about the overarching policies that govern how you draft.

Drafting good players even if you have a good player(s) at that position gives you options. You can choose to go forward with improved depth, you can choose to trade the established player, or you can choose to flip the drafted player for more draft picks. Good problem to have.

I'm not saying that I disagree, but I wonder if you surveyed everyone around the GB organization, whether they would think it's a good problem to have. Seems like they have ginormous headaches now.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I see...  
Scuzzlebutt : 4/15/2021 1:24 pm : link
In comment 15221882 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15221820 Bill L said:


Quote:


Are you recommending the KC draft a QB on the second day?



It's never a bad thing to draft a good player.

I think drafting well in the NFL is less about evaluating pick by pick, and more about the overarching policies that govern how you draft.

Drafting good players even if you have a good player(s) at that position gives you options. You can choose to go forward with improved depth, you can choose to trade the established player, or you can choose to flip the drafted player for more draft picks. Good problem to have.


Sorry, but if the Giants had used a 1st or 2nd rounder on Wilson a year after Eli had a career year and was the Super Bowl MVP you would be the first one shitting all over them for wasting resources.
Bill L  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 1:27 pm : link
Having headaches is part of the job. Good players fighting for scarce positions means you've done something right. Obviously Love is never going to beat out Rodgers, so now GB is in the enviable position of having options at QB. Good headache to have.
Scuzzlebutt  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 1:29 pm : link
In 2012 when I didn't have any understanding about how QB resource allocation worked in the current CBA (which was only a year old at the time), yeah I probably would have. And I would have been wrong. Like I said, hindsight.
I wonder how hard the Giants evaluated this QB class..  
Sean : 4/15/2021 1:31 pm : link
We heard last year they evaluated Herbert closely, maybe a smokescreen. It’s not impossible for any of Justin Fields, Trey Lance or Mac Jones to be available at #11.
RE: I wonder how hard the Giants evaluated this QB class..  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 1:34 pm : link
In comment 15221904 Sean said:
Quote:
We heard last year they evaluated Herbert closely, maybe a smokescreen. It’s not impossible for any of Justin Fields, Trey Lance or Mac Jones to be available at #11.


It's sounding more and more like Fields may be there.
Terps, ironically, you were right AND wrong in regards to Wilson  
Britt in VA : 4/15/2021 1:37 pm : link
and his situation.

If I recall correctly, that Seahawks team was when you first started advocating for churning QB's regularly, not paying them second contracts because you felt that the run game and the legion of boom were more important to keep together than Wilson (who was up for his second contract), whom you viewed as more as a game manager/driver of the sports car at the time.

You were wrong about Wilson, he turned into a much better player than that. Where you have been proven right, is that the more money that went into Wilson, the less they would be able to keep that core of a team together, and you have the Seahawks as they exist today.

It's a catch 22.
RE: RE: I wonder how hard the Giants evaluated this QB class..  
Bill L : 4/15/2021 1:48 pm : link
In comment 15221908 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15221904 Sean said:


Quote:


We heard last year they evaluated Herbert closely, maybe a smokescreen. It’s not impossible for any of Justin Fields, Trey Lance or Mac Jones to be available at #11.



It's sounding more and more like Fields may be there.


Not if ESPN gets its way. Fields and the WNBA being on par with all the major sports (used to include the shafting of Deshaun Watson but for some reason they are no longer pushing that one) are going to be the media-created realities of 2021.
Ross confirmed..  
Sean : 4/15/2021 1:48 pm : link
When he was with the Giants everything worked through the general manager (Reese). While in Philly, everything worked through Reid.
RE: Bill L  
Bill L : 4/15/2021 1:50 pm : link
In comment 15221895 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Having headaches is part of the job. Good players fighting for scarce positions means you've done something right. Obviously Love is never going to beat out Rodgers, so now GB is in the enviable position of having options at QB. Good headache to have.

Is that better than, say, using that draft capital to help Rodgers win the NFC?
Britt  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 1:55 pm : link
That's correct. I underestimated how good Wilson would turn out to be. He's in the small group of QBs worth paying the huge contract.

But yeah, it's been a choice of one or the other...pay the QB or use the money on the rest of the roster. Now what will be interesting to see is how things go under the new CBA. In 2021 Rodgers is going to be the player with the largest percentage of his team's cap hit (20.3%). The 2021 cap is $182M. Before COVID hit, Albert Breer speculated the cap could hit $300M by around 2023.

So will the most expensive QB still be making 20% of that cap? That's a $60M cap hit. That would make Mahomes's 10 year, $450M contract a bargain. In two or three years Justin Herbert may be asking the Chargers for 5 years, $300M.

The rules we've spent 10 years getting used to might no longer apply.
RE: RE: Bill L  
Go Terps : 4/15/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15221925 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15221895 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Having headaches is part of the job. Good players fighting for scarce positions means you've done something right. Obviously Love is never going to beat out Rodgers, so now GB is in the enviable position of having options at QB. Good headache to have.


Is that better than, say, using that draft capital to help Rodgers win the NFC?


The Packers went 13-3, had the highest scoring offense, the third highest point differential, and hosted the NFC title game. Do we really think they lost that game because they drafted Jordan Love? Shit, maybe drafting Love was the motivational kick in the ass that resulted in Rodgers putting up one of the greatest years in QB history.
RE: RE: It's weird how  
LakeGeorgeGiant : 4/15/2021 1:58 pm : link
In comment 15221828 LauderdaleMatty said:
Quote:
In comment 15221799 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


fans with little to no knowledge of how draft planning happens at an organizational level always gravitate towards one whipping boy when things go sideways. Despite the fact that it's probably a collaborative effort, with the GM and ownership weighing in frequently.

I don't claim to have inside knowledge on the NYG or Ross. I just find it weird that so many here believe they do.



Hi M Ross. U sucked. Bye



Another thing you can always expect from BBI, maturity.
RE: RE: RE: Bill L  
Mike in NY : 4/15/2021 2:02 pm : link
In comment 15221931 Go Terps said:
Quote:
In comment 15221925 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 15221895 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Having headaches is part of the job. Good players fighting for scarce positions means you've done something right. Obviously Love is never going to beat out Rodgers, so now GB is in the enviable position of having options at QB. Good headache to have.


Is that better than, say, using that draft capital to help Rodgers win the NFC?



The Packers went 13-3, had the highest scoring offense, the third highest point differential, and hosted the NFC title game. Do we really think they lost that game because they drafted Jordan Love? Shit, maybe drafting Love was the motivational kick in the ass that resulted in Rodgers putting up one of the greatest years in QB history.


Yes they lost because they drafted Jordan Love and also wasting a 2nd round pick on a 3rd string RB who barely played because the coach wouldn't commit to a running game. To paraphase from Super Bowl XLVI, that was an Adams and Tonyan game - make him go to Lazard make him go to St. Brown. The Tampa defense at key junctures was double those two and force the rest of the targets to beat single coverage which they could not do. Had Green Bay had Aiyuk, Higgins, or Pittman opposite Adams that would have been a much different story.
Mike  
PwndPapi : 4/15/2021 2:47 pm : link
That's a guess at best. Aiyuk's biggest games of the year, his team lost both.
Regrets , I had a few  
DavidinBMNY : 4/15/2021 2:51 pm : link
But Marc Ross did it his way and I cheered when he was fired. Which is awful and the first and hopefully last time I ever do that.
NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
JonC : 4/15/2021 2:55 pm : link
after Ross was elevated.
Giants also had some  
Bricktop : 4/15/2021 3:04 pm : link
Area Scouts who were absolute dinosaurs and the sport passed them by about a decade before they were removed. That whole staff was littered with incompetence.
RE: Giants also had some  
JonC : 4/15/2021 3:05 pm : link
In comment 15222002 Bricktop said:
Quote:
Area Scouts who were absolute dinosaurs and the sport passed them by about a decade before they were removed. That whole staff was littered with incompetence.


What's up, B?
RE: RE: Bill L  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2021 3:10 pm : link
In comment 15221925 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15221895 Go Terps said:


Quote:


Having headaches is part of the job. Good players fighting for scarce positions means you've done something right. Obviously Love is never going to beat out Rodgers, so now GB is in the enviable position of having options at QB. Good headache to have.


Is that better than, say, using that draft capital to help Rodgers win the NFC?


Yes, Green Bay should have known their 1st Team All-Pro Left Tackle Bakhtiari would tear his ACL right before the playoffs.

If they had simply planned ahead they could have traded up with us to grab Andrew Thomas instead of taking Love...
RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
PwndPapi : 4/15/2021 3:11 pm : link
In comment 15222000 JonC said:
Quote:
after Ross was elevated.


Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.
RE: RE: Giants also had some  
Bricktop : 4/15/2021 3:15 pm : link
In comment 15222004 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15222002 Bricktop said:


Quote:


Area Scouts who were absolute dinosaurs and the sport passed them by about a decade before they were removed. That whole staff was littered with incompetence.



What's up, B?


Hangin in, my friend. How's the "bolt-on" market treating you these days?
RE: RE: RE: Giants also had some  
JonC : 4/15/2021 3:23 pm : link
In comment 15222018 Bricktop said:
Quote:
In comment 15222004 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 15222002 Bricktop said:


Quote:


Area Scouts who were absolute dinosaurs and the sport passed them by about a decade before they were removed. That whole staff was littered with incompetence.



What's up, B?



Hangin in, my friend. How's the "bolt-on" market treating you these days?


Lol, I've been settled for five years, my son will turn two next month.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Giants also had some  
Bricktop : 4/15/2021 3:52 pm : link
In comment 15222028 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15222018 Bricktop said:


Quote:


In comment 15222004 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 15222002 Bricktop said:


Quote:


Area Scouts who were absolute dinosaurs and the sport passed them by about a decade before they were removed. That whole staff was littered with incompetence.



What's up, B?



Hangin in, my friend. How's the "bolt-on" market treating you these days?



Lol, I've been settled for five years, my son will turn two next month.


No way! Haha! That's great man! Congrats! My son turns 20 in November. Time flies bro. Enjoy every single day with that little guy.
20?!  
JonC : 4/15/2021 3:55 pm : link
Geez, I remember you talking about him when he was 5! Time does fly, somehow I'm gonna turn 51 with a 2 year old.
RE: 20?!  
Bricktop : 4/15/2021 4:08 pm : link
In comment 15222057 JonC said:
Quote:
Geez, I remember you talking about him when he was 5! Time does fly, somehow I'm gonna turn 51 with a 2 year old.


Yeah man. He's a heavyweight wrestler at a Top 15 school majoring in computer science. It goes by way too fast!
RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
FStubbs : 4/15/2021 4:10 pm : link
In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15222000 JonC said:


Quote:


after Ross was elevated.



Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.


Ross is ridiculous. Wilson would've become another backup on the Giants - Eli was coming off of his 2nd ring that year.

It's simple what happened. Chris Mara and Ross aside, the team believed after Eli won a ring with a questionable roster that they could just patch the team and Eli could get a third ring. They kept this philosophy even past Reese's dismissal with the drafting of Barkley. And finally, they were forced to move on from Eli.
RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/15/2021 4:16 pm : link
In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15222000 JonC said:


Quote:


after Ross was elevated.



Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.


Coughlin clearly had more control back then if you look at the guys we drafted. His control clearly started to wane after 2013/14 with a few bad seasons in a row and him getting up there in age. This is when the team really turned to shit and the hole we've needed to dig out of. DG made a miscalculation when he took over, but quickly rectified when the bullets started flying. Then they rectified the situation of having one of the worst coaching staffs in the league.
RE: RE: 20?!  
JonC : 4/15/2021 4:18 pm : link
In comment 15222066 Bricktop said:
Quote:
In comment 15222057 JonC said:


Quote:


Geez, I remember you talking about him when he was 5! Time does fly, somehow I'm gonna turn 51 with a 2 year old.



Yeah man. He's a heavyweight wrestler at a Top 15 school majoring in computer science. It goes by way too fast!


Awesome! And, a great degree program! My little dude is almost 23 months old and weighs 34 lbs already.
RE: RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/15/2021 4:19 pm : link
In comment 15222068 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:


It's simple what happened. Chris Mara and Ross aside, the team believed after Eli won a ring with a questionable roster that they could just patch the team and Eli could get a third ring. They kept this philosophy even past Reese's dismissal with the drafting of Barkley. And finally, they were forced to move on from Eli.


I hate Marc Ross with every fiber of my being, but I can give them credit a little bit for realizing the game is changing offensively. Problem is, they wanted to install this type of offense for a QB that was a piss poor fit. Guys have certain strengths and weaknesses you can work around, but the one guy you need to tailor to is your QB. It was like, we are going to bring in all the supporting cast to run this offense with having a square peg in a round hole at QB.
Whether Ross is full of shit or not  
JB_in_DC : 4/15/2021 4:20 pm : link
and whether you have a QB already or not. You obviously have to pull the trigger if you have that much conviction about a guy and he's there in the 3rd round.
RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
JonC : 4/15/2021 4:20 pm : link
In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:
Quote:
In comment 15222000 JonC said:


Quote:


after Ross was elevated.



Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.


Ross not doing the work was a pretty well-known fact that got out, and it is one component in an organization that clearly has its issues, and won rings in spite of them. I didn't say he was horrible, but he certainly was the man in charge of the drafts when the pipeline died off.
RE: Britt  
Thegratefulhead : 4/15/2021 4:23 pm : link
In comment 15221928 Go Terps said:
Quote:
That's correct. I underestimated how good Wilson would turn out to be. He's in the small group of QBs worth paying the huge contract.

But yeah, it's been a choice of one or the other...pay the QB or use the money on the rest of the roster. Now what will be interesting to see is how things go under the new CBA. In 2021 Rodgers is going to be the player with the largest percentage of his team's cap hit (20.3%). The 2021 cap is $182M. Before COVID hit, Albert Breer speculated the cap could hit $300M by around 2023.

So will the most expensive QB still be making 20% of that cap? That's a $60M cap hit. That would make Mahomes's 10 year, $450M contract a bargain. In two or three years Justin Herbert may be asking the Chargers for 5 years, $300M.

The rules we've spent 10 years getting used to might no longer apply.
This is why I say the Giant spending this year was brilliant. Belichick thought so too. People whining about the contracts are short sighted.
RE: RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/15/2021 4:28 pm : link
In comment 15222078 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15222000 JonC said:


Quote:


after Ross was elevated.



Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.



Ross not doing the work was a pretty well-known fact that got out, and it is one component in an organization that clearly has its issues, and won rings in spite of them. I didn't say he was horrible, but he certainly was the man in charge of the drafts when the pipeline died off.


What I was told by a credible source was similar to what you posted. Ross put more time into building his image and other interests than putting the work in to keep producing at a high level. It wasn't characterized as laziness, just a lack of dedication to continual improvement
It aligns  
JonC : 4/15/2021 4:30 pm : link
and winding up a TV analyst sure seems like an easier path to earn a living.
RE: 20?!  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/15/2021 4:36 pm : link
In comment 15222057 JonC said:
Quote:
Geez, I remember you talking about him when he was 5! Time does fly, somehow I'm gonna turn 51 with a 2 year old.


How do you feel about that? The men in my family all have children in their 40s going way back and I'm starting to think I"m going to be the first one to crack the 50 mark.
It is what it is, men are afforded a luxury women aren't  
JonC : 4/15/2021 4:58 pm : link
I wasn't lucky enough to meet a wife in college or in my younger years, so I waited. Got too used to being single, but never thought it would be such a long wait. Time really flies after 30. I wouldn't trade my son for the world, I'm lucky to have him!
RE: RE: RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
BrettNYG10 : 4/15/2021 5:11 pm : link
In comment 15222089 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15222078 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15222000 JonC said:


Quote:


after Ross was elevated.



Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.



Ross not doing the work was a pretty well-known fact that got out, and it is one component in an organization that clearly has its issues, and won rings in spite of them. I didn't say he was horrible, but he certainly was the man in charge of the drafts when the pipeline died off.



What I was told by a credible source was similar to what you posted. Ross put more time into building his image and other interests than putting the work in to keep producing at a high level. It wasn't characterized as laziness, just a lack of dedication to continual improvement


Do guys with Ross's job typically work 70-80+ hour weeks and he just lost the fire? I'm sort of befuddled how someone could work hard (presumably) to get to that point, get close to being a GM elsewhere, and just slack off.
I really don't..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/15/2021 5:30 pm : link
know that answer. The work ethic varies, even at the HC level. George Seifert was a notorious delegator who had a lot of free time compared to his contemporaries. Same rumors about Steve Spurrier and Mike McCarthy too.

I don't think it is so much about how many hours you put in - but just making sure you are prepared, whether it is doing the work yourself or knowing who to delegate to that will get the work done.

Also, just like some assistant coaches don't make good HC's that same philosophy can be said about being elevated to a different position in an organization. Sometimes taking on a bigger responsibility results in failure.

What was told to me is that Ross was often unprepared. That could be an issue with him looking for other opportunitites, it could be poor delegating skills, it could be from a variety of isues.
I thought it was interesting that  
Bricktop : 4/15/2021 5:30 pm : link
he started out in Public Relations with the Giants, not Scouting. He played at Princeton which is fine, I suppose - and he's certainly a smart guy. But he never struck me as wanting to be the guy behind the guy. He wants to be in front of the camera feeding that ego.
RE: RE: RE: RE: NYG's talent pipeline began to die  
GManinDC : 4/15/2021 5:43 pm : link
In comment 15222089 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15222078 JonC said:


Quote:


In comment 15222011 PwndPapi said:


Quote:


In comment 15222000 JonC said:


Quote:


after Ross was elevated.



Ross was elevated to VP of Player Evaluation in 2007. Those 2008 and 2009 drafts hauled some nice players. KP, TT, MM, Nicks, Beatty, JPP, L. Joseph, etc. Some misses in the middle rounds and some outright busts later on, but to say he was a horrible exec is silly.

There are a multitude of reasons why the drafts progressively got worse. It may have been an organizational shift in philosophy. Others in the braintrust may have seized more control over the decision making. Or Ross just didn't put in the work. None of us knows for sure. But I do know which narrative many Giants fans choose to run with: Reese and Ross sucked. Coughlin was let down. Eli's career wasted by a front office seeking athletes over football players. It's myopic at best. And an "ist" term at worst.



Ross not doing the work was a pretty well-known fact that got out, and it is one component in an organization that clearly has its issues, and won rings in spite of them. I didn't say he was horrible, but he certainly was the man in charge of the drafts when the pipeline died off.



What I was told by a credible source was similar to what you posted. Ross put more time into building his image and other interests than putting the work in to keep producing at a high level. It wasn't characterized as laziness, just a lack of dedication to continual improvement


These are the little bits of info that always get overlooked. Ross taking over in 2007 when the drafts were still good. That changed in 2011.

Yes, you can blame Reese for keeping Ross too long, but Reese gets blamed for almost everything.
Reese..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 4/15/2021 5:49 pm : link
gets the short shaft here too often.

He was a big part of the reason we won.

I do believe the downfall started with Ross, but I don't even think it is one person's fault. It was a combination of poor drafts, bad injury luck and players not developing (which is more at the feet of coaching).
RE: It is what it is, men are afforded a luxury women aren't  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/15/2021 6:01 pm : link
In comment 15222127 JonC said:
Quote:
I wasn't lucky enough to meet a wife in college or in my younger years, so I waited. Got too used to being single, but never thought it would be such a long wait. Time really flies after 30. I wouldn't trade my son for the world, I'm lucky to have him!


That's great to hear! Yeah I've met a few I would, but I'm pretty far from that next step and has probably broken up a few relationships. And I certainly don't see the point in getting married unless having a kid. I just got a puppy and I can't do a baby for at least another 5 years. Something I want to have all my ducks in a row before I do. What a gamechanger!

But yeah your right, I have cousins twenty years older than me, which was actually really cool and honestly super beneficial. Probably going to happen the same way for me and my sister.
Marc Ross had to be the leaker right?  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/15/2021 6:02 pm : link
I remember watching him on NFL network the first time a bunch of years back, and was flabbergasted he was on. Turned me off NFL network tbh. Why does this guy get to parade around like some sort of expert? Oh yeah right, he was milking information from the organization and using it as currency to set him up in the media. What a snake.
RE: Marc Ross had to be the leaker right?  
PwndPapi : 4/15/2021 6:04 pm : link
In comment 15222223 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
I remember watching him on NFL network the first time a bunch of years back, and was flabbergasted he was on. Turned me off NFL network tbh. Why does this guy get to parade around like some sort of expert? Oh yeah right, he was milking information from the organization and using it as currency to set him up in the media. What a snake.


That's quite a leap in logic there.
RE: I really don't..  
BrettNYG10 : 4/15/2021 6:19 pm : link
In comment 15222174 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
know that answer. The work ethic varies, even at the HC level. George Seifert was a notorious delegator who had a lot of free time compared to his contemporaries. Same rumors about Steve Spurrier and Mike McCarthy too.

I don't think it is so much about how many hours you put in - but just making sure you are prepared, whether it is doing the work yourself or knowing who to delegate to that will get the work done.

Also, just like some assistant coaches don't make good HC's that same philosophy can be said about being elevated to a different position in an organization. Sometimes taking on a bigger responsibility results in failure.

What was told to me is that Ross was often unprepared. That could be an issue with him looking for other opportunitites, it could be poor delegating skills, it could be from a variety of isues.


Thanks, interesting stuff. There seemed to be more contempt for Ross than anyone else fired from the Giants.
RE: Marc Ross had to be the leaker right?  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2021 6:20 pm : link
In comment 15222223 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
I remember watching him on NFL network the first time a bunch of years back, and was flabbergasted he was on. Turned me off NFL network tbh. Why does this guy get to parade around like some sort of expert? Oh yeah right, he was milking information from the organization and using it as currency to set him up in the media. What a snake.


Classic. So you think it was Professor Plum in the Conservatory with the Lead Pipe?
RE: RE: Marc Ross had to be the leaker right?  
PwndPapi : 4/15/2021 6:29 pm : link
In comment 15222254 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:

Classic. So you think it was Professor Plum in the Conservatory with the Lead Pipe?


It's not often we get a glimpse of conspiracy tilt unfold before our eyes in a single post.

If you look closely, you can see Marc Ross behind that picket fence  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2021 6:40 pm : link
on the grassy knoll...


This is ridiculous.  
adamg : 4/15/2021 9:54 pm : link
"My biggest regret was not drafting Brady in the fifth round."

Jerk yourself off some more, Marc.
RE: RE: Marc Ross had to be the leaker right?  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/15/2021 10:14 pm : link
In comment 15222254 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15222223 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


I remember watching him on NFL network the first time a bunch of years back, and was flabbergasted he was on. Turned me off NFL network tbh. Why does this guy get to parade around like some sort of expert? Oh yeah right, he was milking information from the organization and using it as currency to set him up in the media. What a snake.



Classic. So you think it was Professor Plum in the Conservatory with the Lead Pipe?


I know connecting dots is hard for you to understand. To be fair though, I'd imagine Connect 4 is hard for you to grasp.
RE: RE: RE: Marc Ross had to be the leaker right?  
Jimmy Googs : 4/15/2021 11:39 pm : link
In comment 15222590 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
In comment 15222254 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


In comment 15222223 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


I remember watching him on NFL network the first time a bunch of years back, and was flabbergasted he was on. Turned me off NFL network tbh. Why does this guy get to parade around like some sort of expert? Oh yeah right, he was milking information from the organization and using it as currency to set him up in the media. What a snake.



Classic. So you think it was Professor Plum in the Conservatory with the Lead Pipe?



I know connecting dots is hard for you to understand. To be fair though, I'd imagine Connect 4 is hard for you to grasp.


Don’t play it much. But please, help us connect the dots on your little theory above as to how Ross was the reincarnation of Benedict Arnold...
...  
christian : 4/16/2021 10:11 am : link
I think fans underestimate the number of good people doing good work in concert to produce the consistently good product the Giants had from 2005-2012.

Accorsi, Reese, Gettleman, Ross, Coughlin, Gilbride, Spags, Fewell plus countless players all had stretches of peak performance that overlapped.

Those stars don't align forever -- age, focus, personal lives, complacency, ego etc. get in the way.

Marc Ross made a comment, expressing regret for not listening to his staff. He was blaming himself, not giving himself credit for discovering Wilson.

The resentment towards the group that helped deliver one of the better runs this franchise ever had is so weird.
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