Riddick: DG’s hand is forced with Giants’ NFL Draft decision

before us, otherwise, between Miami, Denver, Carolina, Cincy and Detroit, that could be 5 other teams selecting a offensive player before us.

position but I am glad he didn't. When you say things like this it shows his mentality. He is basically saying do what you can do to keep your job at least one more year instead of doing what is in the best interest of the team long term. Sadly, I believe too many people, particularly GMs, think like this. I also believe that DG doesn't feel like this. Anyone can argue the bad for DG and have a valid argument but at no point have I felt like we have cut corners with this team. Like Judge has said, it is a process. Trust the process. I also feel like most of us believe Judge has had a huge impact over the last 2 years on the players who were brought in so this isn't about Gettleman. This is about the NYG.

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Is that DG is likely not empowered to make the decision by himself. Butting heads with Judge would be a big mistake. They’re going to select a player that is viewed by Judge and DG as in the best interest of the team. DG doesn’t only need to make Jones look good, he needs to start producing wins snd he needs to do so hand in hand with Joe Judge. This is not the same dynamic as in the past where the GM calls all the shots.

I think there is a lot more "group think" going on with this year's draft due to covid. Everyone is chirping the same thing.

But DG isn't being "forced" to do anything. He will help pick the best player they have on their row if they can't trade back.

In particular about GM's thinking about their job versus what's best for the team long-term. I understand wanting to preserve your job, but the right thing to do in my view is think of those that come after you and what you leave them.

In comment 15222726 robbieballs2003 said:

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position but I am glad he didn't. When you say things like this it shows his mentality. He is basically saying do what you can do to keep your job at least one more year instead of doing what is in the best interest of the team long term. Sadly, I believe too many people, particularly GMs, think like this. I also believe that DG doesn't feel like this. Anyone can argue the bad for DG and have a valid argument but at no point have I felt like we have cut corners with this team. Like Judge has said, it is a process. Trust the process. I also feel like most of us believe Judge has had a huge impact over the last 2 years on the players who were brought in so this isn't about Gettleman. This is about the NYG.

That's a really good viewpoint.

But in many cases.....he cut bait and moved on.... disregarding how it would look.

Reese/Ross would keep mistake on roster....to cya.

A ridiculous comment by Riddick

Riddick, he would have picked Haskins and the Giants would be fucked

A lot of it. The player with the best film wins. It will be one of Smith, Waddle, Parsons, Horn or Philips ..... I think

I mean, when you go out and look at the free agents they signed, including Golladay, they literally set themselves up to NOT have their hands forced in this draft.

His reasoning is kind of bizarre when you think about it.

Haskins if he was GM...

I can’t see Judge being onboard with a short term fix with the draft.

I don't think Riddick is necessarily wrong with his take.. Just misdirected. Of course, there is pressure on Gettleman to win now because it's his job as a GM to field a winning team and he has yet to do that during his tenure. This is a proud organization. They're tired of losing. Spending 200 million in free agency was your first indication of that. Also, when you're picking in the top 15 you're drafting a player who will have an immediate role (exception: developing a QB). For NYG, thanks to all the QBs that will go before them, they will be getting an impact player at 11 and they won't have to jeopardize their board to do so.

Smith, Waddle, Slater would all be early contributors who would aid in the development of Jones. And all three would be among the best available if available when NYG is on the clock. Parsons will be in that conversation as well.

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“Is an offensive tackle more important than a playmaking wide receiver?’’ Riddick said. “This is what you get paid for. These are the kind of mental gymnastics you go through as a team-builder and that’s what Dave is possibly going to be faced with in two weeks.’’

A section of a podcast and a whole article that only refers to Gettleman and not Judge? Mental gymnastics is an appropriate term for what this front office seems to go thru every offseason for certain, and not in a good way.

DG and his scouting team can do all the legwork/evals/tape watching they want on the players and make sure they have plenty of colored sharpies for the Draft Board. But when it comes down to that #11 pick and there are a few names to choose from, what we really want is to have the NYG front office look at Head Coach Judge and let him decide and call out the name...

In comment 15222755 Peppers said:

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I don't think Riddick is necessarily wrong with his take.. Just misdirected. Of course, there is pressure on Gettleman to win now because it's his job as a GM to field a winning team and he has yet to do that during his tenure. This is a proud organization. They're tired of losing. Spending 200 million in free agency was your first indication of that. Also, when you're picking in the top 15 you're drafting a player who will have an immediate role (exception: developing a QB). For NYG, thanks to all the QBs that will go before them, they will be getting an impact player at 11 and they won't have to jeopardize their board to do so. Smith, Waddle, Slater would all be early contributors who would aid in the development of Jones. And all three would be among the best available if available when NYG is on the clock. Parsons will be in that conversation as well.

I agree but it is how he explained it that I wouldn't want in a GM. I have no idea with any of the three players suggested but the reasoning is off imo. You draft any one of those players because you feel they are the right player to help this team start winning now and long term. You don't draft a player because you feel like your time is running out or you want to correct/answer a prior move. He clearly stated this as bypassing BPA for basically selfish reasons.

that would make me believe he could be any better GM then myself or half the posters on BBI. Heck I'd take Terps over this guy.

Not sure how idea was put in there.

is spot on. Gettleman has worked with his coaches as a general manager whether it was Ron Rivera, shurmur or judge. Pat shurmur was the one who brought Daniel Jones to Gettlemans attention. A lot of the players that Gettleman acquired had ties to either bettcher on defense or shurmur/ shula on offense. Look at last years draft, almost all of the players had roots to the SEC and the connection to those coaches.

Ultimately Gettleman is accountable for the acquisition of players good or bad as general manager, but I don't think he feels any pressure. If anything I think he feels very comfortable because he has a head coach as well as other coaches with ties to the college coaching ranks to give him a lot of information and feedback on a lot of these players. Gettleman wants to win for sure, but he wants to provide judge with the players he desires more.

In comment 15222730 UberAlias said:

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Is that DG is likely not empowered to make the decision by himself. Butting heads with Judge would be a big mistake. They’re going to select a player that is viewed by Judge and DG as in the best interest of the team. DG doesn’t only need to make Jones look good, he needs to start producing wins snd he needs to do so hand in hand with Joe Judge. This is not the same dynamic as in the past where the GM calls all the shots.

I think that you are overstating weakness in DG. By a lot. I mean, there is no weakness in DG at all in this. It will be, as it always has been, a collaborative effort with Judge (and others) and, as has always been the case, he will make a strong effort to draft a player who aligns with the HC's team building efforts.

Riddick spends his days criticizing GMs but he’s never been hired as one

as position flexibility. NOt that he's wrong.

But. really if you're going to pick a guy that high, it shouldn't be for position flexibility. It should be a guy that has such overwhelming talent that he get put in one place and stays there for life. If position flexibility is his primary virtue, then at the #11 spot, it is no virtue at all and, in fact, will never come into play.

I fucking hate when people say this. Yeah, because we drafted him as our QB?? Because we we giving him 3+ years to develop?

What the fuck does that even mean.

have you heard anything in regards to Parsons?

In comment 15222768 ryanmkeane said:

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I fucking hate when people say this. Yeah, because we drafted him as our QB?? Because we we giving him 3+ years to develop? What the fuck does that even mean.

I wonder how many team in the NFL do *not* live or die by their QB? I would bet almost every team has put their eggs in their starting QB's basket.

In comment 15222767 Bill L said:

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as position flexibility. NOt that he's wrong. But. really if you're going to pick a guy that high, it shouldn't be for position flexibility. It should be a guy that has such overwhelming talent that he get put in one place and stays there for life. If position flexibility is his primary virtue, then at the #11 spot, it is no virtue at all and, in fact, will never come into play.

Bill, I think that’s simply a bonus to have in your physical armamentarium, imv. If drafted, it will be for what he does BEST, imo

It’s fucking year 4 here. Time to produce and stop putting up losing seasons. This is a results business. No one is entitled to a 5 year plan without showing progress.

In comment 15222768 ryanmkeane said:

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I fucking hate when people say this. Yeah, because we drafted him as our QB?? Because we we giving him 3+ years to develop? What the fuck does that even mean.

Its one of many cool catch phrases to try and win arguments. DG hand picked Jones, kinda "no shit" that it needs to work out. And why wouldn't the Giants, or any other team with a young QB, want to get more weapons to help them succeed?

I got nothing out of Riddick's comments, just recycled ideas that we've all heard and know.

Gettleman will likely be moved to advisor, so I don’t see this massive pressure to make a short sighted pick.

In comment 15222773 Big Blue '56 said:

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In comment 15222767 Bill L said: Quote: as position flexibility. NOt that he's wrong. But. really if you're going to pick a guy that high, it shouldn't be for position flexibility. It should be a guy that has such overwhelming talent that he get put in one place and stays there for life. If position flexibility is his primary virtue, then at the #11 spot, it is no virtue at all and, in fact, will never come into play. Bill, I think that’s simply a bonus to have in your physical armamentarium, imv. If drafted, it will be for what he does BEST, imo

I feel like Reese drafted OL with a highlight being someone who could play multiple positions, as opposed to just picking the guy who maybe could only play tackle or only play guard but, my God, was he really really good at it.

You're the first I've seen mention Parsons as a possibility, interesting and I hope it's real.

In comment 15222776 Sean said:

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Gettleman will likely be moved to advisor, so I don’t see this massive pressure to make a short sighted pick.

Yep, that seems like the move

In comment 15222768 ryanmkeane said:

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I fucking hate when people say this. Yeah, because we drafted him as our QB?? Because we we giving him 3+ years to develop? What the fuck does that even mean.

It is silly, but I guess basically referring to DG spending a lot in free agency to help his young QB out? What we got (finally) was a decent but very expensive WR that played 5 games last season and a 32-year Tight End that needs foot surgery.

I think we need more eggs and Easter is over...

Lost all credibility when he went all in on Haskins two years ago. A person who is supposedly GM material cannot take such a strong position on a player and be that wrong. Especially since there was plenty of debate about Haskins at the time. He should stick to his media gig.

with Pitts or chase. They will be doing it for Burrow. They gave Mayfield a brand new OL and 2 WR's and a TE. Are there any teams out there save for the Andrew Luck Colts where they didn't try to get them help?

I kinda wish someone just asked Riddick that.

In comment 15222771 ryanmkeane said:

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have you heard anything in regards to Parsons?

He has strong advocates.. He's certainly in the conversation at 11.

In comment 15222784 Bernie said:

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Lost all credibility when he went all in on Haskins two years ago. A person who is supposedly GM material cannot take such a strong position on a player and be that wrong. Especially since there was plenty of debate about Haskins at the time. He should stick to his media gig.

+1 ... this used to be known as ‘The Peter Principle’.

Is not long for the GM role here and he knows it. Simply a combination of Judge having more say, age/ health and let’s not forget the Giants poor record under his watch. Personally, I think he gets shit on more than deserved but that comes with the job description.

that keeps coming up is that DG is trying to save his job. DG is 70 y/o. He does not want to be fired but he also does not want to do things only to save his job. I think he could give a rat's ass about making moves to "save" his job.
He wants to rebuild the Giants and that is the only thing he wants to do. So implying that DG will pick a player just to save his ass in total bullshit.

IMHO, of course.

In comment 15222805 section125 said:

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that keeps coming up is that DG is trying to save his job. DG is 70 y/o. He does not want to be fired but he also does not want to do things only to save his job. I think he could give a rat's ass about making moves to "save" his job. He wants to rebuild the Giants and that is the only thing he wants to do. So implying that DG will pick a player just to save his ass in total bullshit. IMHO, of course.

Agree with this

In comment 15222780 JonC said:

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You're the first I've seen mention Parsons as a possibility, interesting and I hope it's real.

At first, a month or so ago, I was skeptical but the talk just hasn't gone away.

In comment 15222810 Peppers said:

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In comment 15222780 JonC said: Quote: You're the first I've seen mention Parsons as a possibility, interesting and I hope it's real. At first, a month or so ago, I was skeptical but the talk just hasn't gone away.

No idea what went on, but If Judge has had a face to face with him, he knows of course whether MP has passed JJ’s litmus test

As far as Riddick, watching the Giants podcast, he just came off as really negative towards the Giants. Schmeelk was either oblivious or just a pro but man I kind of wanted to grab him by the screen and give him a shake.

but I think Parsons will make a bigger impact than the WRs, and I expect Smith to be gone before #11. Picking Waddle over Parsons doesn't compute for me.

In comment 15222805 section125 said:

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that keeps coming up is that DG is trying to save his job. DG is 70 y/o. He does not want to be fired but he also does not want to do things only to save his job. I think he could give a rat's ass about making moves to "save" his job. He wants to rebuild the Giants and that is the only thing he wants to do. So implying that DG will pick a player just to save his ass in total bullshit. IMHO, of course.

100%

... but I think he’s misreading 2018. Whether or not Saquon Barkley was the best player in that Draft, he was by far the player most likely to have an immediate impact.

In comment 15222795 Peppers said:

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In comment 15222771 ryanmkeane said: Quote: have you heard anything in regards to Parsons? He has strong advocates.. He's certainly in the conversation at 11.

wow....here we go

Simply put, DG doesn't want to be fired because he failed. And the clock is ticking, so immediate results are more important than longer term ones to DG's cause.

In comment 15222820 Jim in Forest Hills said:

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As far as Riddick, watching the Giants podcast, he just came off as really negative towards the Giants. Schmeelk was either oblivious or just a pro but man I kind of wanted to grab him by the screen and give him a shake.

That was my impression, too. I got a very heavy "sour grapes" vibe from Riddick.

Smith, Parsons or Surtain.

Waddle doesn't excite me too much for some reason, maybe the injury.

If we can't get 1 of the 3 guys mentioned above, I'd prefer a trade back for someone like Toney, Collins or Ojulari.

In comment 15222784 Bernie said:

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Lost all credibility when he went all in on Haskins two years ago. A person who is supposedly GM material cannot take such a strong position on a player and be that wrong. Especially since there was plenty of debate about Haskins at the time. He should stick to his media gig.

yeah, he even went as far as to say that Haskins would be "far and away" the best QB from that draft....yikes

To me, feels like a guy that will always have sour grapes about not getting this GM job. I am no DG defender but Riddick always sounds negative on DG decisions for bias reasons

In comment 15222832 Jimmy Googs said:

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Simply put, DG doesn't want to be fired because he failed. And the clock is ticking, so immediate results are more important than longer term ones to DG's cause.

He wouldn't be human if he wasn't concerned about his legacy, and I agree...the clock is ticking. I'm sure he'd like to go out leaving the Giants in good shape. A contender, at least, if not completely championship-caliber.

because when DG was hired and every year since, he has actually been very vocal about the fact that he is making the best decisions for NYG and he is trying to build the team and that it will take some time. This flies in the face of all the media reporters who want to say that this pick sucked, this pick was great. Baker is the only "really important" pick that DG has made thus far where you can absolutely say was awful, the other top picks are Barkley (rookie of the year, really good second season even with the injury, torn ACL), Hernandez (decent starter), Jones (still developing), Lawrence (if he makes the jump he's a pro bowler), Baker (awful), Thomas (developing), McKinney (developing)

So...it just sort of seems like the media people who think DG is somehow going to try to "save his job" this season have no idea what they are talking about. He has never made picks to do that.

In comment 15222805 section125 said:

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that keeps coming up is that DG is trying to save his job. DG is 70 y/o. He does not want to be fired but he also does not want to do things only to save his job. I think he could give a rat's ass about making moves to "save" his job. He wants to rebuild the Giants and that is the only thing he wants to do. So implying that DG will pick a player just to save his ass in total bullshit. IMHO, of course.

Not to mention that if you look at the people who have had beefs with Gettleman in the past it isn't coaching staff or other management folks, it were specific players. Gettleman will get exactly who his coach wants and does not have a problem being portrayed as the evil guy in the media. That gives coaches a lot of cover when they are fed up with a player.

DG here....but it's hilarious that John Lynch is NOW being called a top 5 GM....where were these rankings the first few years of Lynch's tenure when they went 6-10 and 4-12?

DG is called a shitty GM when all of the other GMs who did the same thing he's trying to do and ultimately succeeded, are now called brilliant

In comment 15222844 ryanmkeane said:

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because when DG was hired and every year since, he has actually been very vocal about the fact that he is making the best decisions for NYG and he is trying to build the team and that it will take some time. This flies in the face of all the media reporters who want to say that this pick sucked, this pick was great. Baker is the only "really important" pick that DG has made thus far where you can absolutely say was awful, the other top picks are Barkley (rookie of the year, really good second season even with the injury, torn ACL), Hernandez (decent starter), Jones (still developing), Lawrence (if he makes the jump he's a pro bowler), Baker (awful), Thomas (developing), McKinney (developing) So...it just sort of seems like the media people who think DG is somehow going to try to "save his job" this season have no idea what they are talking about. He has never made picks to do that.

You mean the SAME media people who say you need about 3 years to KNOW how successful your drafted player can become (or not), that media?

came this close to a SB win and still a loaded roster.

DG, eh, ...

In comment 15222841 Klaatu said:

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In comment 15222832 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: Simply put, DG doesn't want to be fired because he failed. And the clock is ticking, so immediate results are more important than longer term ones to DG's cause. He wouldn't be human if he wasn't concerned about his legacy, and I agree...the clock is ticking. I'm sure he'd like to go out leaving the Giants in good shape. A contender, at least, if not completely championship-caliber.

Yeah, that's all. A winning season plus a playoff game may be all DG is reasonably looking for to retire feeling good about what he has left behind.

And I hope he gets there in 2021...

Like all GMs DG has made some good moves and some bad. Just had a good FA. If he has a decent draft he will be around another two years

his opinion is totally wrong. The team did as much as they could with the resources available to be able to draft BPA. You can argue about the players they brought in all day but they made an effort to address weak areas.

Put him at LG and your left side is set for 5-7 years
Draft WR at 2. Lots to choose from. Very deep
Rd 3. Draft a RG or Center. Aaron Banks or Trey Hill
Rd 4 draft a RB to compliment Barkley sermon or Stevenson
RD 6. ? Two Edges. Hope one pans out

In comment 15222852 ryanmkeane said:

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DG is called a shitty GM when all of the other GMs who did the same thing he's trying to do and ultimately succeeded, are now called brilliant

Don't follow this thought Ryan. How is it the same thing if they succeeded and DG hasn't...even remotely?

Your case to defend Gettleman is that John Lynch had two Gettleman years before his team went to the Super Bowl? Ok.

In comment 15222768 ryanmkeane said:

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I fucking hate when people say this. Yeah, because we drafted him as our QB?? Because we we giving him 3+ years to develop? What the fuck does that even mean.

Because he'll be remembered solely for if he was right about Jones. It's more a legacy thing, his tenure as GM will be judged on that pick

because it took time with the others, that's why. Lynch and Beane needed a few years to put everything together.

In comment 15222868 arniefez said:

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Your case to defend Gettleman is that John Lynch had two Gettleman years before his team went to the Super Bowl? Ok.

i'm not defending Gettleman, i'm saying media has a hard on for Lynch, and they had some really bad seasons before they put it all together (with a new coach as well)

In comment 15222740 McNally's_Nuts said:

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Riddick, he would have picked Haskins and the Giants would be fucked

Yikes.

I love this time of year but its things like that that make me take it all with a grain of salt.

In comment 15222872 ryanmkeane said:

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because it took time with the others, that's why. Lynch and Beane needed a few years to put everything together.

Agreed Ryan. And let’s be honest, the 49ers still don’t have a QB. The one good year with Jimmy G looks like a mirage at this point. Good team, but haven’t won anything yet.

DG so you guys need to chill. what i'm saying is....would it shock anyone if these same media people came out and said "wow Gettleman had a plan all along!" if we go 11-5?

In comment 15222872 ryanmkeane said:

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because it took time with the others, that's why. Lynch and Beane needed a few years to put everything together.

Really? Just a heads up...you are about to go down a slippery slope here with respect to time, progress, expectations, etc.

he sees takes like this from Riddick. He’s in his late 60’s, is a cancer survivor, has been part of a Super Bowl winning franchise, and likely has millions in the bank. I think he’s doing this because he enjoys it. If he gets fired eventually he gets fired. A lot of good coaches and GM’s get fired and their legacy isn’t completely tarnished. At the end of the day this whole process is a crapshoot, particularly the draft.

you need to give this up my dude. I already said I'm not defending Gettleman, I'm just just juxtaposing the media's obsession with GMs who needed some time, and them hating on DG. Just relax man, you need to give it up

In comment 15222877 ryanmkeane said:

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DG so you guys need to chill. what i'm saying is....would it shock anyone if these same media people came out and said "wow Gettleman had a plan all along!" if we go 11-5?

I hope they go 11-5 and nobody says that actually. Because it would be a farce...we have seen how this started in early 2018 and the decisions made since.

"had a plan all along" is a mirage...

walked into a team that had two of the best defensive linemen in the entire league, and one of the best secondaries. He didn't exactly have to do a ton of heavy lifting. The best thing Lynch did was hire Shanahan, their team is basically the same as it was

In comment 15222885 ryanmkeane said:

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you need to give this up my dude. I already said I'm not defending Gettleman, I'm just just juxtaposing the media's obsession with GMs who needed some time, and them hating on DG. Just relax man, you need to give it up

Ok, fine to move on.

But if you aren't defending Gettleman, you are doing a damn fine impersonation...

my feelings on DG are well documented. I said this is the year to prove that the plan worked. Kinda seems like O'Brien is the GM in waiting...but if DG was right on Jones, Barkley, Thomas, etc...lots of folks will look foolish around here. I'll look foolish if we suck again.

that article is trash.

Can't wait until DG drafts a defensive player in round 1. You will hear crickets.

everyone who says "well that's a big IF" or "giants are HOPING Jones turns out to be good..." this is what EVERY GM AND EVERY TEAM DO WHEN THEY DRAFT PLAYERS

DG is on the clock and signing all these players to cover his ass and escalate the development of Daniel Jones.

Childish horse shit. Every team from the dawn of man has tried to give his team and QB weapons. EVERY SINGLE ONE. But now? Oh...it's DG acting like the big bad troll under the bridge again....he doesn't care about anything else except his own ass...JONES has to be good..and he's doing whatever it takes to ensure Jones IS good, and the implications are, this is bad, so bad....so so bad because DG is bad. And he's selfish. And he's hell bent on being right.

Shut the fuck up already. The Bucs went all in on Tom brady last year. The Colts went all in on Rivers. The Jets hung Darnold out to dry, lol. Dallas drafts WRS every fucking year. The Browns went all in on Mayfield.

They all fucking do this. If the Giants ignored the WRs this offseason the media would be going bat shit crazy. Just shut it.

yep, it's click bait and trying to move the needle every day so that they have something to talk about

In comment 15222901 djm said:

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DG is on the clock and signing all these players to cover his ass and escalate the development of Daniel Jones. Childish horse shit.

Yep. And the flip side is that he put a lot of resources into building the D last season, with very good results. So instead of giving credit for that effort, it gets pivoted to the idea he's ignoring the offense (even though he spent a #1 on an OL and drafted another two last season

in round 1 and then these same guys will go "Gettleman making huge mistake by NOT surrounding Jones with first round talent"

that traded fan favorite and owner's pet, Odell Beckham. He traded JPP, a super bowl winner. He openly admits he doesn't really give a fuck what people think. He adheres to his philosophy no matter what people think. DG has all but come out and said he doesn't give a fuck.

But now he's scared and throwing caution to the wind to secure Jones' place in the NFL. Same guy that beat Cancer and is closing in on 70.

Trust me, DG doesn't give a fuck. He just wants to leave the Giants in good shape. All GMs want to win. They would run over their first round QB with a steamroller to get to the 6th round QB if that 6th rounder was a star in the making.

the same GM who was fired from Carolina because he was looking to move Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen against the owner's demands.

(Or did in college) a lot of what waddle did. Not sure what happened there probably no OL so QB had no time to throw (sound familiar) plus injuries. I too like Parsons over him. Slater also. I believe Smith will be gone.

Off topic, but I heard that Tepper is very intense. Peter King mentioned this earlier this week almost as a comp to Lurie. He is very involved in all football decisions and puts a ton of pressure on Rhule & the new GM.

I was impressed with everything Tepper said initially, but I’m not so sure that’s a good sign for an owner. That is meddling.

and his off the field stuff the giants are comfortable with.

If they believe Parsons can have a Devon White type impact it would be tough to pass up on that. White transformed the Bucs defense into an elite defense. Can Parsons have the same impact on our defense?

In comment 15222857 JonC said:

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came this close to a SB win and still a loaded roster. DG, eh, ...

Loaded Roster? Didn't he trade for and pay big money for a QB that they are now dumping? Who is their QB this year? Next Year?

He's no top 5 GM. Not top 10 either.

my point with Lynch. The Jimmy G thing blew up and now they are giving up more draft capital to find another QB 3 years later. And yet - everyone says “wow Lynch! What a move into the top 3!”

And there is zero mention of the fact that the only reason they have to do this is because the move that he made didn’t pan out.

In comment 15222795 Peppers said:

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In comment 15222771 ryanmkeane said: Quote: have you heard anything in regards to Parsons? He has strong advocates.. He's certainly in the conversation at 11.

Parsons has been my pick for NYG. He is a great fit and makes a ton of sense. We need speed and play makers on defense. If you look at the strength of the draft it is deep with OL and WR. It doesn't mean you pick those positions in round 1 or round 6 but if you have a draft strategy you can get quality players at those positions in rounds 2-4. Micah Parson is the best front 7 player in the draft. Period.

In comment 15222933 ZogZerg said:

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In comment 15222857 JonC said: Quote: came this close to a SB win and still a loaded roster. DG, eh, ... Loaded Roster? Didn't he trade for and pay big money for a QB that they are now dumping? Who is their QB this year? Next Year? He's no top 5 GM. Not top 10 either.

This, imagine if DG traded picks and paid Jimmy G all that cash and we had one good year with him. Even if Jones doesn’t pan out we at least didn’t trade a bunch of picks to get him or pay him a huge contract.

Everyone should know this. DG will survive only if Barkley and Jones thrive.

In comment 15222930 Sean said:

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Off topic, but I heard that Tepper is very intense. Peter King mentioned this earlier this week almost as a comp to Lurie. He is very involved in all football decisions and puts a ton of pressure on Rhule & the new GM. I was impressed with everything Tepper said initially, but I’m not so sure that’s a good sign for an owner. That is meddling.

It is really an interesting situation to keep an eye on. When they hired the new GM, the decision was made by collaboration. Tepper has set up a team of people from all areas of the organization that provide input and, at least at face value, have a say in the final decision. Now, I did hear that Tepper really pushed the Darnold trade over a few strenuous objections, which has led to a lot of speculation that the Panthers will still draft a QB, and Darnold was traded because of the good value and the dissatisfaction with Bridgewater. In essence, Darnold will be a better one year placeholder for the new QB. We'll see if that's the case or not.

Tepper is very intense. He is involved in all football decisions and is the deciding vote. which is why I think it is funny that some posters have declared the Panthers "Rhule's team".

Great points. I’ve always felt the story of Gettleman as the passive lap dog is nonsense. I don’t see a guy who got fired for standing up to an owner, going to a new gig to be dragged around by the owner.

More and more I believe Gettleman has a really strong voice and seat at the table for everything. I think he works with ownership and coaching as much as the next guy, but I don’t think he’s in the back row.

I think he blew 18/19 top-to-bottom, and is doing much better at his second try. I believe he’s going to draft for the best interest of the next 2-3 years — the window he knows Jones, Barkley, Williams, Ryan, Bradberry, Martinez, Golladay, and Jackson are here.

were rumors that DG might get fired along with Shurmur. He has made many bad decisions. Mara has also said he's sick of all the losing. I nonetheless don't think DG is making short term moves to save his job. He's 70 and a cancer survivor. Even if he doesn't get fired, he knows his job is coming to an end. As others have noted, Judge clearly and correctly has a major say in personnel decisions.

My concern is simply that the Giants will overdraft an EDGE at #11. I'm still hoping they trade down a few spots, although I know it may not be possible even if they want to do so.

In comment 15222933 ZogZerg said:

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In comment 15222857 JonC said: Quote: came this close to a SB win and still a loaded roster. DG, eh, ... Loaded Roster? Didn't he trade for and pay big money for a QB that they are now dumping? Who is their QB this year? Next Year? He's no top 5 GM. Not top 10 either.

Jimmy G's issue is injuries, and they're about to add a QB.

It's not so much that Lynch is "great", but he's making a bigger impact on SF than DG has here. SF walked over NYG playing a ton of backups and third stringers in the middle of a super bowl hangover season.

that was a walking wounded at the time and playing their backup QB, put one of the bigger beat-downs I have seen on the Dave Gettleman's NYG roster in MetLife in a while.

The 36-9 score didn't give justice as to how much better and deeper one roster looked versus the other.

It was just one game, but also a cold hard look at where these two GM's stood on the team building process.

Was a cool new voice at firat, but he has since devolved into a woeful ESPN mouthpiece. He was awful in his assessment of Haskins. Awful lobbying for the Giants gig and seemingly an awful prospective GM.

Level, except for LB. Sure Martinez is a sure tackler up the middle, sure we have nice role playing guys on the outside. But an instinctive maniac to join that crew would be a major plus for this D.

is actually pretty good on the MNF crew, he should stick to that

with Robbieballs. Well said.

Without getting all this blowback? The team has won 15 games in 3 years. Carolina fired him after 3-4 years as GM and I doubt he was getting another GM job at his age except for Mara. Every one of his 1st was questionable, maybe they will all work out, maybe not. While that’s true of all 1st round picks, Gettleman’s have been top 2, 6 and 4. Don’t get me started on Baker and trading up for him didn’t help.

The Giants team is now better than the team was when he got the job. But, aside from the fact that we’re in a weak division and can win it , is it likely that we’re an upper echelon team. I’m sure Riddick has an agenda with regard to the Giants but why dismiss criticisms that seem pretty valid?

In comment 15222912 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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the same GM who was fired from Carolina because he was looking to move Thomas Davis and Greg Olsen against the owner's demands.

I'm no Gettleman fan, but his firing in Carolina was BS, those were correct decisions the owner blocked.

And as it turns out, Gettleman is still in the NFL and the owner is gone.

In comment 15222883 eric2425ny said:

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he sees takes like this from Riddick. He’s in his late 60’s, is a cancer survivor, has been part of a Super Bowl winning franchise, and likely has millions in the bank. I think he’s doing this because he enjoys it. If he gets fired eventually he gets fired. A lot of good coaches and GM’s get fired and their legacy isn’t completely tarnished. At the end of the day this whole process is a crapshoot, particularly the draft.

I don't buy this. The GM sets the strategy for the organization. And Gettleman gladly drank the Kool-Aid to support the Eli Restoration Tour. Which very likely set the organization back at least two years.

Gettleman is paid very handsomely to get it right. His staff is paid handsomely to help him get it right. The coaches are paid very handsomely to get it right. So I'm not buying this narrative that GMing is basically like playing the lottery and you are at the mercy of some long odds. There are clear ways to significantly reduce the "crapshoot" and get it right more often than not.

This is the same GM who still thinks football hasn't changed since 1935. 1935!

Just think about that.

I think for the first time in years they had an amazing free agency pre-draft to fill tons of soft spots so they COULD draft BPA and not be forced on anything.

Even if no draft took place this team is MUCH more competitive than last year. Another OL, DL, and WR in that order even would be a blessing.

In comment 15222968 Samiam said:

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Without getting all this blowback? The team has won 15 games in 3 years. Carolina fired him after 3-4 years as GM and I doubt he was getting another GM job at his age except for Mara. Every one of his 1st was questionable, maybe they will all work out, maybe not. While that’s true of all 1st round picks, Gettleman’s have been top 2, 6 and 4. Don’t get me started on Baker and trading up for him didn’t help. The Giants team is now better than the team was when he got the job. But, aside from the fact that we’re in a weak division and can win it , is it likely that we’re an upper echelon team. I’m sure Riddick has an agenda with regard to the Giants but why dismiss criticisms that seem pretty valid?

Should be allowed to criticize anything and everything as long as it can be reasonable pointed to the responsibility of the GM and Front Office.

The won loss record speaks for itself of the mistakes made in evaluating and roster building. But tough to ignore a whole lot of more talented bodies that have been placed on this roster since the new coach arrived.

Unfortunately even a better roster can be undone by issues at QB and injuries to star players.

Big year.

Riddick and all the other wannabes with an axe to grind against DG.

He's been here 4 years now. He knows it's time to win. That's the game he's been in his entire life. It's not going to change who he drafts.

The funny thing is - I think he gets vindicated big time this year and he doesn't even need the draft pick to contribute. He got his QB, Barkley, rebuilt the OLine and has a good D on the field. Excellent coaching staff. I think it all comes together this year.

that the giants are going all in to win now and especially want to properly evaluate jones and that may affect how they approach the draft

but i don't think i'd say his hands are forced. it's not like picking an OL or WR at 11 would be bad value or a reach so i'm not sure what he's getting at

at any position is going to help win games. Its not like DG was going to pick a developmental QB this year. Hot air from a media analyst.

In comment 15222805 section125 said:

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that keeps coming up is that DG is trying to save his job. DG is 70 y/o. He does not want to be fired but he also does not want to do things only to save his job. I think he could give a rat's ass about making moves to "save" his job. He wants to rebuild the Giants and that is the only thing he wants to do. So implying that DG will pick a player just to save his ass in total bullshit. IMHO, of course.

+1

In comment 15222933 ZogZerg said:

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In comment 15222857 JonC said: Quote: came this close to a SB win and still a loaded roster. DG, eh, ... Loaded Roster? Didn't he trade for and pay big money for a QB that they are now dumping? Who is their QB this year? Next Year? He's no top 5 GM. Not top 10 either.

Top 5? I don't know. Definitely in the top 10. If you try to push it here, then Kyle Shananan is the best head coach in the NFL by miles. Which is it?

But the intangible stuff Lynch does very well, and the Niners do have the personnel staff at a high level (like Adam Peters) that are contributing to these acquisitions. It may not be appreciated much, but he is about 100x what Trent Baalke was for organizational cohesion with owner, head coach, fans, etc. He probably could have corralled a Harbaugh as well.

I'd say this particular offseason he's done a great job at retaining so many of his players. Trent Williams was surely a goner, and then he wasn't. Lower profile but still important players like Kyle Jusczyk, K'Waun Williams, Jason Verrett were all retained when fans thought they'd be gone. From this moment going forward, it will be all about that #3 pick and the rest of the draft. Assuming no massive injuries this season, expectations are high.

Sure, there have been busts along the way - Solomon Thomas, Reuben Foster (character bust). Dee Ford and Weston Richburg might be the highest paid players per snap the last few seasons.

Jimmy Garoppolo is absolutely not one of those busts whatsoever. When you have a top 5 winning percentage, and get into the Super Bowl it deserves a certain level of respect. It's still not 100.0% guaranteed he's off the team next year, and definitely not in the coming months. And his dead money going forward is very low.

Don't think you'd mind having the Bucs safety as Giants GM.

In comment 15222768 ryanmkeane said:

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I fucking hate when people say this. Yeah, because we drafted him as our QB?? Because we we giving him 3+ years to develop? What the fuck does that even mean.

I agree with this. And the Rams with Stafford, the Panthers with Darnold ... the list goes on, teams invest around their starting QB. Some teams are absolutely sure they have their QB long term (Chiefs, Bills, Ravens, Texans well not so much); many have some sort of caution. but still have to support their starter, and others just do not have a legit starter. Which team has a starting QB and doesn't put the eggs in that basket?

In comment 15222993 mittenedman said:

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Riddick and all the other wannabes with an axe to grind against DG. He's been here 4 years now. He knows it's time to win. That's the game he's been in his entire life. It's not going to change who he drafts. The funny thing is - I think he gets vindicated big time this year and he doesn't even need the draft pick to contribute. He got his QB, Barkley, rebuilt the OLine and has a good D on the field. Excellent coaching staff. I think it all comes together this year.

Riddick wanted to be GM at a few spots including the Niners.

People in the know, just know.

If Lynch could be a GM and Riddick not, that tells a lot to me. Sure he played the game, but that's not enough.

legacy among Giant fans is usually one of respect and gratitude for laying the foundation of two SB winners.

GM's and drafting is a bit overrated, a lot of them have the same track record. You have to hit on the coach and QB, and the rest fall into place.

Perfect example of this, the Ravens. I mean people act like Ozzie Newsome is the best thing ever, but you look at the actual drafts...they have been pretty solid, nothing spectacular. The key is that they have John Harbaugh who is one of the top 5 coaches in football over a 10 year period.

We'll agree to disagree.
Lynch is so overrated as a GM.

6-10
4-12
13-3
6-10

Which year looks like the outlier here?
Yeah, I'll give you that he made a "good" hire as a HC.
But, the move for Jimmy G. was below average move and he had more than his fair share of high pick busts.

is no outlier, they've just been unable to keep JG healthy in the other seasons, and Shanahan's made some costly in-game mistakes including the SB (twice across two teams).

Lynch can be middle of the road and still ahead of DG.

have not been anything special. They've made some nice FA moves, and again the coach is the key

In comment 15223048 JonC said:

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is no outlier, they've just been unable to keep JG healthy in the other seasons, and Shanahan's made some costly in-game mistakes including the SB (twice across two teams). Lynch can be middle of the road and still ahead of DG.

Shanahan is brilliant, but it's exactly why I'm no fan of the play caller/HC combo. They get lost in the details, when the should be thinking big picture. Absolutely why a SB eluded Reid for so long.

If the Titans beat KC in the playoffs, are we still having this discussion about DG"s viewpoint on football being out of date?

In comment 15223081 BigBlueCane said:

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If the Titans beat KC in the playoffs, are we still having this discussion about DG"s viewpoint on football being out of date?

BBC, maybe a fair point, but DG was doing it backwards when he drafted Barkley when it was very clear Giants' OL was bottom of barrel and nothing for SB to run behind. Not really TENN's problem, even if Henry is a battering ram all by himself.

In comment 15223110 ColHowPepper said:

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In comment 15223081 BigBlueCane said: Quote: If the Titans beat KC in the playoffs, are we still having this discussion about DG"s viewpoint on football being out of date? BBC, maybe a fair point, but DG was doing it backwards when he drafted Barkley when it was very clear Giants' OL was bottom of barrel and nothing for SB to run behind. Not really TENN's problem, even if Henry is a battering ram all by himself.

That was the model the Rams used.

Jimmy G tore his ACL. He has been far less mobile and accurate since the injury.

In comment 15223044 ZogZerg said:

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We'll agree to disagree. Lynch is so overrated as a GM. 6-10 4-12 13-3 6-10 Which year looks like the outlier here? Yeah, I'll give you that he made a "good" hire as a HC. But, the move for Jimmy G. was below average move and he had more than his fair share of high pick busts.

Basically every good player on their team was hurt last year and they won 6 games. All things considered, they won more than they should have.

In comment 15223112 FatMan in Charlotte said:

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That was the model the Rams used.

Not sure where you're going with that FM, re. the run game?

maybe backwards but the model itself seems sound.

In comment 15222901 djm said:

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DG is on the clock and signing all these players to cover his ass and escalate the development of Daniel Jones. Childish horse shit. Every team from the dawn of man has tried to give his team and QB weapons. EVERY SINGLE ONE. But now? Oh...it's DG acting like the big bad troll under the bridge again....he doesn't care about anything else except his own ass...JONES has to be good..and he's doing whatever it takes to ensure Jones IS good, and the implications are, this is bad, so bad....so so bad because DG is bad. And he's selfish. And he's hell bent on being right. Shut the fuck up already. The Bucs went all in on Tom brady last year. The Colts went all in on Rivers. The Jets hung Darnold out to dry, lol. Dallas drafts WRS every fucking year. The Browns went all in on Mayfield. They all fucking do this. If the Giants ignored the WRs this offseason the media would be going bat shit crazy. Just shut it.

It's absolutely preposterous. We had one of the worst, if not the worst, skill units in the league once Barkley went down. He's truly a rising tide floats all boats guy (bullshit analogy for what it's usually used for, but in football it fits).

So we sign a legitimate number 1 whose ceiling may be untapped (right now I consider him top 15), a flyer on an injured John Ross, a mid priced veteran TE to free up Engram to do his best, and a backup RB and all of a sudden we are throwing weapons at DJ? BS, we needed skill players DESPERATELY.

What's the ceiling for this group? Sky high because of Barkley, but if you take Barkley out of the equation, this overall could be an above average group depending on healthy. Considering some of the health histories here that it's really decidedly average without Barkley.

the Giants will be good. Yea, DG's approach is outdated. Get the fuck out of here. Since when is focusing resources along the OL, DL and secondary and WRs outdated?

God your act is old. Find a new one.

by some some these "analysts" is insane.

until he lights it up, he's never going to live past it.

it's as if DG and Jones fucked everyones mothers by getting picked over everyones "favorite" haskins.

these people need to get over it. Gil Brandt said Jones was the best QB he scouted since Peyton Manning. what else do we need to be said that its not that bad of a pick.

also just as a train of thought thing. didn't someone say shurmur's guy was Lock? hows that going in denver? they were talking about trading for Darnold.

Every off-season, it's the same old shit with certain posters, and they always wind up being wrong about the team. Do they even realize this??

it's sunshine and rainbows.

In comment 15223150 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Every off-season, it's the same old shit with certain posters, and they always wind up being wrong about the team. Do they even realize this??

figured you would chime in, thanks for the addition to the discussion, go back to being a miserable prick, thanks

In comment 15223150 Dave in Hoboken said:

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Every off-season, it's the same old shit with certain posters, and they always wind up being wrong about the team. Do they even realize this??

I get where you are coming from. It’s time for results. That being said, when you look at the current roster you are for the first time in a long time, starting to see some semblance of a quality team being put together. We actually have a position group of strength in the secondary and a D-Line that is top 10 or 12 in the league I would guess, pre-draft anyway. Add another playmaking receiver in round 1 and that WR group becomes another strength. Anything less than 9-7 this year to me is a complete failure.

podcast on Youtube.

John Schmeelk is doing a great job with it. He gets a good variety of analysts and draftniks, and its really interesting hearing all their in-depth opinions about the prospects. In particular, he had a great conversation with a former Cowboys scout a week ago that I really enjoyed.

As far as Riddick goes, he had some good insight on the corners.

In comment 15223009 NINEster said:

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In comment 15222933 ZogZerg said: Quote: In comment 15222857 JonC said: Quote: came this close to a SB win and still a loaded roster. DG, eh, ... Loaded Roster? Didn't he trade for and pay big money for a QB that they are now dumping? Who is their QB this year? Next Year? He's no top 5 GM. Not top 10 either. Top 5? I don't know. Definitely in the top 10. If you try to push it here, then Kyle Shananan is the best head coach in the NFL by miles. Which is it? But the intangible stuff Lynch does very well, and the Niners do have the personnel staff at a high level (like Adam Peters) that are contributing to these acquisitions. It may not be appreciated much, but he is about 100x what Trent Baalke was for organizational cohesion with owner, head coach, fans, etc. He probably could have corralled a Harbaugh as well. I'd say this particular offseason he's done a great job at retaining so many of his players. Trent Williams was surely a goner, and then he wasn't. Lower profile but still important players like Kyle Jusczyk, K'Waun Williams, Jason Verrett were all retained when fans thought they'd be gone. From this moment going forward, it will be all about that #3 pick and the rest of the draft. Assuming no massive injuries this season, expectations are high. Sure, there have been busts along the way - Solomon Thomas, Reuben Foster (character bust). Dee Ford and Weston Richburg might be the highest paid players per snap the last few seasons. Jimmy Garoppolo is absolutely not one of those busts whatsoever. When you have a top 5 winning percentage, and get into the Super Bowl it deserves a certain level of respect. It's still not 100.0% guaranteed he's off the team next year, and definitely not in the coming months. And his dead money going forward is very low. Don't think you'd mind having the Bucs safety as Giants GM.

Jimmy G is 100% a bust. You have to be a fool to think otherwise. They’re drafting his replacement in 2 weeks.

but he's definitely not a bust. They traded a 2nd for him, less than what Carolina just paid for Darnold and he was part of a SB team. He never elevated them, so I think others likely make the SB in his place, but he wasn't losing games for them. The last 2 years of his deal there's almost 0 dead money as well.

For a 2nd round pick I don't know how that can all be categorized as bust.

In comment 15222960 chopperhatch said:

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Was a cool new voice at firat, but he has since devolved into a woeful ESPN mouthpiece. He was awful in his assessment of Haskins. Awful lobbying for the Giants gig and seemingly an awful prospective GM.

This made me laugh. Theo is an NFL RB, not the one making the comments.

In comment 15223081 BigBlueCane said:

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If the Titans beat KC in the playoffs, are we still having this discussion about DG"s viewpoint on football being out of date?

Excuse me for answering, but this is all you need to know...

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"...at the end of the day, it's the same three things you've had to do in 1935 that you got to do now in 2018."

THE QUOTE GAME!!!!!

“The first thing we want to be able to do is run the ball,”
-Joe Judge

Judge wants to run, he's outdated and stupid. Must not think its 2021 and the passing game is what scores points.

In comment 15223197 UConn4523 said:

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THE QUOTE GAME!!!!! “The first thing we want to be able to do is run the ball,” -Joe Judge

It's why he's Jimmy Clownshoes.

Bozo is going to keep using that quote or screaming "1935!!" whenever he can.

Just more fuel for his troll engine.

the offensive roster he was given, and realizes he has one of the worst set of wide receiver & tight end units in the NFL and a QB with no pocket awareness...

best record in the league. Great year to model ourselves after!

In comment 15222766 ryanmkeane said:

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Riddick spends his days criticizing GMs but he’s never been hired as one

Is it any more ironic than Mike Francesa spending his days criticizing athletes when the only physical activity he does is sipping diet coke?

In comment 15223154 JonC said:

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it's sunshine and rainbows.

No one says that.

In comment 15223198 UConn4523 said:

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Judge wants to run, he's outdated and stupid. Must not think its 2021 and the passing game is what scores points.

These clowsn refuse to acknowledge that the game isn't purely analytics. If it was purely the YPT stat, then why not throw the ball every single down? Oh because you'll give up a 100 sacks, turnover a billion times, and be on your third string QB by the time the 9th game is over.

What Barkley enables teams to do is generate big plays in run game out of nowhere. Not only that he requires the defenses full attention opening things up for everyone else. Why does get all the attention and not some of our new passing weapons we got in FA and probably first round? Oh because literally letting your team get destroyed on the ground play totally deflates football teams and you don't even really turn the ball over or force large negative plays.

If a team has a great rushing attack and a great passing attack - the defensive coordinator is always going to concentrate stopping the run first. At least things can go wrong when you throw the ball. If after that they are getting killed through air, they'll adjust. But you ALWAYS stop the run first. I can't believe people here can't grasp that. It's like football for dummies shit.

you conflate posters being optimistic with "sunshine and rainbows" as if these posters don't also the mention the fact that the team hasn't been good, the results haven't been good, but we are willing to be a bit more patient because of Jones and the young roster.

We have the ability separate the Shurmur disaster and the Eli last few years from the team now. That's the difference.

In comment 15223154 JonC said:

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it's sunshine and rainbows.

And Dave's comment before yours is screaming 5 years of crap. DG was here 3 years and inherited as bad a situation as possible.

But yea, it's all about 2018-2019. WHo cares what the Giants have today, and that appears to be a team on the rise. Proof is in the pudding, but it looks like this team will be vastly improved from 2019 and 2020.

Also, I know you want to say I look at things with rose colored glasses, but IO picked this team to go 7-9 last year and play much better defense than what was expected. That's pretty damn close.

They will have a winning record in 2021.

you also were begging for Sam Darnold. NYG might actually be in a worse place today had they taken him instead of Barkley-Jones.

In comment 15223148 Platos said:

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by some some these "analysts" is insane. until he lights it up, he's never going to live past it. these people need to get over it. Gil Brandt said Jones was the best QB he scouted since Peyton Manning. what else do we need to be said that its not that bad of a pick.

He said pro comp Peyton Manning, not the best QB he's scouted. Jesus that's how ridiculous narratives start. He had him 17th on the board. Gil Brandt is also just one guy that all you old guys drool over. Guy is 89 years old!

And I say that as someone that is a big believer in DJ clearly.

In comment 15223235 ryanmkeane said:

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you conflate posters being optimistic with "sunshine and rainbows" as if these posters don't also the mention the fact that the team hasn't been good, the results haven't been good, but we are willing to be a bit more patient because of Jones and the young roster. We have the ability separate the Shurmur disaster and the Eli last few years from the team now. That's the difference.

Well said. I certainly fit in this boat. I think the team has jaded a lot of people in recent years, understandably so. But the last Eli years was all about just trying to extend his career, plugging immediate needs without longterm planning, and the Shurmur clusterfuck (my money worst coaching staff in league).

I don't think we have either of those issues anymore.

In comment 15223235 ryanmkeane said:

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you conflate posters being optimistic with "sunshine and rainbows" as if these posters don't also the mention the fact that the team hasn't been good, the results haven't been good, but we are willing to be a bit more patient because of Jones and the young roster. We have the ability separate the Shurmur disaster and the Eli last few years from the team now. That's the difference.

Bingo.

Also, some of you insist on putting all the blame on DG. I think that's a very short sighted or convenient way of looking at things. But fans need a villian. DG is an easy target.

Blame MAra for the last 10 years. He's the one getting away with this 10 years run of futility. Gee, I wonder why DG didn't get fired yet..? Take a wild fucking guess.

if DG truly walked in to Mara's office and insisted that Eli was worth building around and the 2018 team was salvageable, AND that the 2018 roster could even be rebuilt and blown up from a financial POV, i'd be glad to admit DG fucked things up here. 2018 roster so was clogged and and broken with high priced vets, isn't it worth exploring the possibility that there was little to nothing anyone could other than ride out that year one more time and if shit stays poor, then you blow it up and take the cap hits in 2019? Do you really think Mara WANTED to eat all that money so quickly? Do you really think the GM gets full autonomy to make those kinds of decisions?

For a place that loves to laugh at my salary cap tirades, I am surprised at the lack of recognition in regards to team and owner economics. Everyone goes right to the GM. It aint that simple guys.

always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it.

This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular.

Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control.

In comment 15223256 UConn4523 said:

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always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it. This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular. Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control.

Well said and it's a big part of the refusal to let things play out with a second year HC and third-year QB. Especially after an unusual year. I feel like this is coming from the need to be right, and honestly, if you are always negative, you are always going to be "right". Only 14 teams make the playoffs now and only 1 wins the whole shebang.

It's why this place sucks now and I limit my offseason use to around draft time. Don't know a ton of Giants fans around where I'm at so I'm pretty active during the season. At least during the season there is stuff to discuss, in the offseason it's the same tired talking points over and over again. It's grating. If I still lived in Jersey I doubt I'd be here at all other to check thread titles occasionaly.

In comment 15223253 djm said:

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In comment 15223235 ryanmkeane said: Quote: you conflate posters being optimistic with "sunshine and rainbows" as if these posters don't also the mention the fact that the team hasn't been good, the results haven't been good, but we are willing to be a bit more patient because of Jones and the young roster. We have the ability separate the Shurmur disaster and the Eli last few years from the team now. That's the difference. Bingo. Also, some of you insist on putting all the blame on DG. I think that's a very short sighted or convenient way of looking at things. But fans need a villian. DG is an easy target. Blame MAra for the last 10 years. He's the one getting away with this 10 years run of futility. Gee, I wonder why DG didn't get fired yet..? Take a wild fucking guess. if DG truly walked in to Mara's office and insisted that Eli was worth building around and the 2018 team was salvageable, AND that the 2018 roster could even be rebuilt and blown up from a financial POV, i'd be glad to admit DG fucked things up here. 2018 roster so was clogged and and broken with high priced vets, isn't it worth exploring the possibility that there was little to nothing anyone could other than ride out that year one more time and if shit stays poor, then you blow it up and take the cap hits in 2019? Do you really think Mara WANTED to eat all that money so quickly? Do you really think the GM gets full autonomy to make those kinds of decisions? For a place that loves to laugh at my salary cap tirades, I am surprised at the lack of recognition in regards to team and owner economics. Everyone goes right to the GM. It aint that simple guys.

So you would feel better if we wrote J. Mara/C. Mara/DG instead of just DG with our comments?

I had cautious hope the 2018 team could make some noise and rebound. Why not? We had a VET QB that could win if things were in place. We had tons of weaponry around him. Barkley. Solder was signed. The D had a lot of vet talent that had played well in 2016. It stands to reason that the choices in that prior off-season were:

--Blow it all up and eschew the solder type moves and get Eli or any other QB completely killed, but, start the rebuild, don't kick any cans down the road, dump off all the vets ASAP, and suck BAD in 2018 and again in 2019 since those dumped dead money contracts all still apply in 2019, but you'd have a slight head start on things.

--do what DG did, try and salvage the roster--get Solder, field a pro OL and see if you can catch lightning in a bottle with Barkley and if it fails, dump the players before the trade deadline and kick off the rebuild in 2019. This is risky because you are signing Solder and keepng Eli, but the alternative above isn't much better, although in retrospect, omitting the Solder move would have been the wise move.

The choices were slim. If we had a Dan Reeves type HC here in 2018-2019 we probably win some of those games that Shurmur lost. it is what it is.

To me it's all about 2020 and 2021. We saw progress in 2020 no matter what people here might think. The D developed from bad to good and the OL went from god awful to just bad, but at least the running lanes were opening for the first time in 10 years.

Now we see how 2021 looks. Judge is the key. if he's as good we all think, everything else will fall in place. EVERYTHING. I am 100% convinced that the great equalizer in the NFL is the HC. Not the QB. THe HC. You can find a good QB. You can't always find the HC. There are probably 10 good ones.

In comment 15223265 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 15223253 djm said: Quote: In comment 15223235 ryanmkeane said: Quote: you conflate posters being optimistic with "sunshine and rainbows" as if these posters don't also the mention the fact that the team hasn't been good, the results haven't been good, but we are willing to be a bit more patient because of Jones and the young roster. We have the ability separate the Shurmur disaster and the Eli last few years from the team now. That's the difference. Bingo. Also, some of you insist on putting all the blame on DG. I think that's a very short sighted or convenient way of looking at things. But fans need a villian. DG is an easy target. Blame MAra for the last 10 years. He's the one getting away with this 10 years run of futility. Gee, I wonder why DG didn't get fired yet..? Take a wild fucking guess. if DG truly walked in to Mara's office and insisted that Eli was worth building around and the 2018 team was salvageable, AND that the 2018 roster could even be rebuilt and blown up from a financial POV, i'd be glad to admit DG fucked things up here. 2018 roster so was clogged and and broken with high priced vets, isn't it worth exploring the possibility that there was little to nothing anyone could other than ride out that year one more time and if shit stays poor, then you blow it up and take the cap hits in 2019? Do you really think Mara WANTED to eat all that money so quickly? Do you really think the GM gets full autonomy to make those kinds of decisions? For a place that loves to laugh at my salary cap tirades, I am surprised at the lack of recognition in regards to team and owner economics. Everyone goes right to the GM. It aint that simple guys. So you would feel better if we wrote J. Mara/C. Mara/DG instead of just DG with our comments?

Not really. But it's probably where the venom should be directed.

I just don't see the point. It's behind us. DG is not incapable of finding NFL talent both in FA and the draft. He's not incapable of managing the day to day ops here. We needed the HC.

In comment 15223256 UConn4523 said:

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always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it. This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular. Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control.

That is quite fair.

Although folks here will post what they have on their minds and so is that...

if we are 9-10-11 wins in and this team is winning games in sustainable fashion, we are going to be fine long term. If we suck, curtains for both DG and probably Jones.

Actually, we could win in 21 even if Jones isn't that good. it's been known to happen. I'd rather cross that bridge when we get to it, but I don't think Jones will hold NYG back at all.

In comment 15223263 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 15223256 UConn4523 said: Quote: always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it. This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular. Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control. Well said and it's a big part of the refusal to let things play out with a second year HC and third-year QB. Especially after an unusual year. I feel like this is coming from the need to be right, and honestly, if you are always negative, you are always going to be "right". Only 14 teams make the playoffs now and only 1 wins the whole shebang. It's why this place sucks now and I limit my offseason use to around draft time. Don't know a ton of Giants fans around where I'm at so I'm pretty active during the season. At least during the season there is stuff to discuss, in the offseason it's the same tired talking points over and over again. It's grating. If I still lived in Jersey I doubt I'd be here at all other to check thread titles occasionaly.

Being negative is all the rage right now. If your right you win, if your wrong you still win. I've got friends like this and I cut them out, just miserable to be around.

I've learned from saying things I'm not proud of and I try my very best to keep it cordial. I've had a lot of great conversations over the years on this board taking the opposing stance on something. I've learned from posters I disagree with. But those conversations are few and far between now, its just a matter of time before the thread is derailed.

In comment 15223271 djm said:

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In comment 15223265 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 15223253 djm said: Quote: In comment 15223235 ryanmkeane said: Quote: you conflate posters being optimistic with "sunshine and rainbows" as if these posters don't also the mention the fact that the team hasn't been good, the results haven't been good, but we are willing to be a bit more patient because of Jones and the young roster. We have the ability separate the Shurmur disaster and the Eli last few years from the team now. That's the difference. Bingo. Also, some of you insist on putting all the blame on DG. I think that's a very short sighted or convenient way of looking at things. But fans need a villian. DG is an easy target. Blame MAra for the last 10 years. He's the one getting away with this 10 years run of futility. Gee, I wonder why DG didn't get fired yet..? Take a wild fucking guess. if DG truly walked in to Mara's office and insisted that Eli was worth building around and the 2018 team was salvageable, AND that the 2018 roster could even be rebuilt and blown up from a financial POV, i'd be glad to admit DG fucked things up here. 2018 roster so was clogged and and broken with high priced vets, isn't it worth exploring the possibility that there was little to nothing anyone could other than ride out that year one more time and if shit stays poor, then you blow it up and take the cap hits in 2019? Do you really think Mara WANTED to eat all that money so quickly? Do you really think the GM gets full autonomy to make those kinds of decisions? For a place that loves to laugh at my salary cap tirades, I am surprised at the lack of recognition in regards to team and owner economics. Everyone goes right to the GM. It aint that simple guys. So you would feel better if we wrote J. Mara/C. Mara/DG instead of just DG with our comments? Not really. But it's probably where the venom should be directed. I just don't see the point. It's behind us. DG is not incapable of finding NFL talent both in FA and the draft. He's not incapable of managing the day to day ops here. We needed the HC.

With all due respect djm, not sure anybody is concerned whether you do see the point in the way they want to interact on this board as Giant fans.

Look, it will be behind us when the team is consistently winning again and reasonably competitive in the league.

Until then, start all the forward-thinking threads you want and post as you please...no one is stopping you

In comment 15223286 UConn4523 said:

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In comment 15223263 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: In comment 15223256 UConn4523 said: Quote: always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it. This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular. Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control. Well said and it's a big part of the refusal to let things play out with a second year HC and third-year QB. Especially after an unusual year. I feel like this is coming from the need to be right, and honestly, if you are always negative, you are always going to be "right". Only 14 teams make the playoffs now and only 1 wins the whole shebang. It's why this place sucks now and I limit my offseason use to around draft time. Don't know a ton of Giants fans around where I'm at so I'm pretty active during the season. At least during the season there is stuff to discuss, in the offseason it's the same tired talking points over and over again. It's grating. If I still lived in Jersey I doubt I'd be here at all other to check thread titles occasionaly. Being negative is all the rage right now. If your right you win, if your wrong you still win. I've got friends like this and I cut them out, just miserable to be around. I've learned from saying things I'm not proud of and I try my very best to keep it cordial. I've had a lot of great conversations over the years on this board taking the opposing stance on something. I've learned from posters I disagree with. But those conversations are few and far between now, its just a matter of time before the thread is derailed.

Yup, miserable. I’ve cut out friends on here, Facebook, as well as relatives for the obvious reasons..

you are missing the point entirely. guys like djm and myself aren't trying to say that you can't be pessimistic or not like Jones or DG, or whatever you wanna do. We would appreciate a nuanced conversation every once in a god damn while.

It's when you have almost close to zero respect or whatever you wanna call it for the other view, thats when we lose interest in trying to have conversations with some people.

Some posters just want to say "Jones sucks" and then in the same breath they reference veteran QBs who needed MORE time than Jones to become who they are today. That's why it is a pointless discussion. When you can't even get to a point of being realistic about something, thats when you lose me

you don't think the Giants were "reasonably competitive" this past season?

In comment 15223207 Jimmy Googs said:

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the offensive roster he was given, and realizes he has one of the worst set of wide receiver & tight end units in the NFL and a QB with no pocket awareness...

And yet Judge put that off for a year when he got the job.

Gettleman is under some pressure to win now? He has been the GM for 3 seasons and the team never won more than 6 games. This is his 4th season so I expect some pressure on him to put together a winning team. What Riddick said wasn't far fetched. The team needs to build around DJ and Riddick is acknowledging that fact.

In comment 15223333 compton said:

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Gettleman is under some pressure to win now? He has been the GM for 3 seasons and the team never won more than 6 games. This is his 4th season so I expect some pressure on him to put together a winning team. What Riddick said wasn't far fetched. The team needs to build around DJ and Riddick is acknowledging that fact.

I'm sure he does and always has. But Riddick is suggesting that somehow his pick will be a "win now" pick but I can argue that DG is ready to retire soon anyway (why else did we bring in OBrien?). Riddick is pot stirring, and isn't saying anything new.

In comment 15223240 djm said:

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DG was here 3 years and inherited as bad a situation as possible.

If that is true, I'm not sure how you and many others can use such an opinion to defend DG. DG himself admitted that when he took over, he overrated the roster and believed they could still win.

It seems as though that should be one of the more simple tasks of the GM, assessing one's own roster and how extensive a rebuild will be required to compete.

Either it's not true that it was "as bas a situation as possible" or misjudging that roster was an inexcusable screw-up on DG's part.

In comment 15223338 UConn4523 said:

Quote:

In comment 15223333 compton said: Quote: Gettleman is under some pressure to win now? He has been the GM for 3 seasons and the team never won more than 6 games. This is his 4th season so I expect some pressure on him to put together a winning team. What Riddick said wasn't far fetched. The team needs to build around DJ and Riddick is acknowledging that fact. I'm sure he does and always has. But Riddick is suggesting that somehow his pick will be a "win now" pick but I can argue that DG is ready to retire soon anyway (why else did we bring in OBrien?). Riddick is pot stirring, and isn't saying anything new.

You may not like Riddick but he suggested the pick should/could be Slater, Smith or Waddle. Three names which are probably mentioned on this site by posters every 10 minutes.

Does every poster on the site also think these are "win now" picks or just prudent picks for the Giants?

I’ve never put more value in optimism vs. pessimism as a fan. Every Sunday I’m optimistic and hopeful the Giants will win, and the days between I like to learn and understand more on why I was right or wrong.

One of the great joys of being a fan is to be able to complain when a team is a loser, and be delusional when they are a winner.

I’ve typically been an optimist. What turned me sour on this team was when Mara gave the ultimatum to Reese to win or else. All of the big decisions from there out were wrong, and so predictable and obvious.

I believe Judge is the turning point, and basically every decision since he walked in the door has been pretty good.

I’m cautiously optimistic about Jones, and I’m somewhere south of that on Barkley. I just hope if those two don’t play at a high level next year, the Giants move on from them, and let Judge pick his cornerstones.

So this may have been said..

But it's kind of crazy that the national media doesn't understand that this is Joe Judge's team and he's likely had and will have a huge hand in Free Agency and the draft.

In comment 15223355 Giants in 07 said:

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So this may have been said.. But it's kind of crazy that the national media doesn't understand that this is Joe Judge's team and he's likely had and will have a huge hand in Free Agency and the draft.

Why is it crazy? BBIers don't know for certain that Judge has had any more influence on those decisions than any other recent HC. It seems more crazy to believe that Mara would mandate that Judge, who had never been a head coach at any level, would be given more of a voice than others. I'm sure DG works with Judge just as he had with Shurmur.

In comment 15223315 ryanmkeane said:

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you are missing the point entirely. guys like djm and myself aren't trying to say that you can't be pessimistic or not like Jones or DG, or whatever you wanna do. We would appreciate a nuanced conversation every once in a god damn while. It's when you have almost close to zero respect or whatever you wanna call it for the other view, thats when we lose interest in trying to have conversations with some people. Some posters just want to say "Jones sucks" and then in the same breath they reference veteran QBs who needed MORE time than Jones to become who they are today. That's why it is a pointless discussion. When you can't even get to a point of being realistic about something, thats when you lose me

Yeah, I hear you ryan. I want Jones to be the guy as much as anyone. He had a really poor year and I will agree with those posts, but absolutely support giving him Year 3 to get it together. Him not doing so really changes the rebuilding landscape dramatically imv so hopefully he does.

I just can't get there with Getts because he is too easy of a target of making these last several years a waste of time with his crappy decisions. And this was on top of several years of bad moves from his predecessor. Yes, recent moves have been better but we all know the reason why that is. Retirement is all I want to hear about from DG.

Relative to pointless conversations, you know you can avoid the ones you want to very easily. But we both know you (and many others I can point to on this very thread) cannot bear to do that. You all want to mix it up with others, and way too often seek it out proactively.

I will just say you can't want to converse with certain people almost daily and then complain how that doesn't go well. Talk about pointless...

In comment 15223318 ryanmkeane said:

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you don't think the Giants were "reasonably competitive" this past season?

More competitive than prior years, yes. But I am talking about putting a competitive team on the field that can matchup up with teams that are looking to win a title. We aren't there yet...

In comment 15223323 Angel Eyes said:

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In comment 15223207 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: the offensive roster he was given, and realizes he has one of the worst set of wide receiver & tight end units in the NFL and a QB with no pocket awareness... And yet Judge put that off for a year when he got the job.

Don't follow...you want to pin that on a rookie HC?

In comment 15223256 UConn4523 said:

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always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it. This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular. Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control.

Amen! This place has way more zealots than it does rationale posters. There is the Giants do no wrong vs the Giants only do wrong. And you can usually tell who they are because they post incessantly and end every post insulting someone else or dismissing everything they said as being biased.

There were always arrogant a-holes on this site, but the number of people who think they need to win an argument on the internet is shocking.

In comment 15223315 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

you are missing the point entirely. guys like djm and myself aren't trying to say that you can't be pessimistic or not like Jones or DG, or whatever you wanna do. We would appreciate a nuanced conversation every once in a god damn while. It's when you have almost close to zero respect or whatever you wanna call it for the other view, thats when we lose interest in trying to have conversations with some people. Some posters just want to say "Jones sucks" and then in the same breath they reference veteran QBs who needed MORE time than Jones to become who they are today. That's why it is a pointless discussion. When you can't even get to a point of being realistic about something, thats when you lose me

There's plenty of "cheerleader" posters who won't entertain any criticism of DG or DJ, and others who just name call or say shut up. JG, GT, and the other pessimists get more crap thrown at them than vice versa

..

No TEs who scare anyone.
OTs and OGs in a state of flux.
A great RB who may, or may not still be great.

If you give Jones the same offensive players as last year, you will get the same results as last year.

We need to spend days 1 & 2 on offense and maybe day 3.

What does it tell you when the team makes a high profile hire out of the Lions and we sign three Lions players and two players from one of the Lions divisional rivals? Connect the dots.

In comment 15223188 UConn4523 said:

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but he's definitely not a bust. They traded a 2nd for him, less than what Carolina just paid for Darnold and he was part of a SB team. He never elevated them, so I think others likely make the SB in his place, but he wasn't losing games for them. The last 2 years of his deal there's almost 0 dead money as well. For a 2nd round pick I don't know how that can all be categorized as bust.

People pick and choose the fate of draft picks it seems. All they want to talk about is the good guys, not the graveyard of players that anyone can barely remember. How many QBs are drafted in 2nd round every year? How many go on to become starter level in this league? 10-20%?

In comment 15223453 Mike from Ohio said:

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In comment 15223256 UConn4523 said: Quote: always will be. I've called out Jones plenty, I just don't belabor it. I've taken issue with DG, and don't belabor it. This board is becoming an exact replica of the world we live in - too many people trying to be right, almost no middle ground. Just a cesspool. Personally I can't imagine trying to "win" a message board but apparently its quite popular. Finally, I don't give two shits about pre 2021 - it couldn't be any less relevant for me. We've had an active offseason, we've got a good a shot at an impact player (or 2) in 2 weeks, and the right man leading the team. I'll enjoy those things instead of dwelling on what I can't control. Amen! This place has way more zealots than it does rationale posters. There is the Giants do no wrong vs the Giants only do wrong. And you can usually tell who they are because they post incessantly and end every post insulting someone else or dismissing everything they said as being biased. There were always arrogant a-holes on this site, but the number of people who think they need to win an argument on the internet is shocking.

The biggest thing I've noticed, is people argue like lawyers now. Like they are representing one side of a case, instead of just having conversations and possibly changing positions. God forbid I change my original stance based on newly presented information that I didn't consider. Sounds like some shit Stalin would make you do.

In comment 15223188 UConn4523 said:

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but he's definitely not a bust. They traded a 2nd for him, less than what Carolina just paid for Darnold and he was part of a SB team. He never elevated them, so I think others likely make the SB in his place, but he wasn't losing games for them. The last 2 years of his deal there's almost 0 dead money as well. For a 2nd round pick I don't know how that can all be categorized as bust.

He’s been hurt most of his tenure in SF and was essentially a passenger on their run to the SB where he choked away the lead they had. What did they run for in the NFCC, 300 yards? Now they’re drafting his replacement. I don’t see how any reasonable person can say he hasn’t been a bust. That team is loaded everywhere besides QB.

In comment 15222968 Samiam said:

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Without getting all this blowback? The team has won 15 games in 3 years. Carolina fired him after 3-4 years as GM and I doubt he was getting another GM job at his age except for Mara. Every one of his 1st was questionable, maybe they will all work out, maybe not. While that’s true of all 1st round picks, Gettleman’s have been top 2, 6 and 4. Don’t get me started on Baker and trading up for him didn’t help. The Giants team is now better than the team was when he got the job. But, aside from the fact that we’re in a weak division and can win it , is it likely that we’re an upper echelon team. I’m sure Riddick has an agenda with regard to the Giants but why dismiss criticisms that seem pretty valid?

No. You’re 100% accurate. While things appear to be looking up the results under Gettleman have been horrible.

The 9ers are being proactive about upgrading the QB position, and that’s a good approach. They see where Garoppolo is every day, know his health, and progress.

Worth noting is he’s only started the equivalent of 2 full seasons in his career. Injuries have really disrupted his time in SF.

In comment 15224025 cosmicj said:

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What does it tell you when the team makes a high profile hire out of the Lions and we sign three Lions players and two players from one of the Lions divisional rivals? Connect the dots.

This x1000. This is clearly what is happening. I think we are heading towards an O’Brien/Judge partnership. Both have New England ties. Both are young.

In comment 15224163 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 15224025 cosmicj said: Quote: What does it tell you when the team makes a high profile hire out of the Lions and we sign three Lions players and two players from one of the Lions divisional rivals? Connect the dots. This x1000. This is clearly what is happening. I think we are heading towards an O’Brien/Judge partnership. Both have New England ties. Both are young.

Please let this be so. Gettleman is the guy at the blackjack table splitting 10s and taking the dealer's bust cards. Once he gets up and leaves we can finally start playing.

I rewatched the last three post draft media sessions this past week. In 2018 & 2019 Gettleman clearly took the lead in discussing all the picks, Shurmur added minimal commentary.

If you watch 2020, Gettleman mostly referred to Judge in discussing the picks. Maybe I’m reading too much into it, but I noticed it.

Because Riddick is correct, all of Gettleman's eggs are in the basket of Daniel Jones. And it's completely understandable because they're linked together - if Jones fails as a QB than DG has unquestionably failed as a GM, there's no coming back from it.

And I haven't been that impressed with Jones, but the reality is that he's going to be the QB for the Giants this year and I'm accepting of the prospect that any QB could make a big leap in year 3. I'm really rooting for him. But for me, this is a sink or swim year - if we're still debating whether Jones is a franchise QB after this season then the answer has to be that he isn't.

In comment 15224274 eclipz928 said:

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Because Riddick is correct, all of Gettleman's eggs are in the basket of Daniel Jones. And it's completely understandable because they're linked together - if Jones fails as a QB than DG has unquestionably failed as a GM, there's no coming back from it. And I haven't been that impressed with Jones, but the reality is that he's going to be the QB for the Giants this year and I'm accepting of the prospect that any QB could make a big leap in year 3. I'm really rooting for him. But for me, this is a sink or swim year - if we're still debating whether Jones is a franchise QB after this season then the answer has to be that he isn't.

I mean all the rational people. The offense could finish top 10, with DJ accounting for 35 TDs with league average turnovers and we'd still have people saying he's not the guy. Let's see him repeat it, oh it's this awesome cast we put together (I merely think we gave him actually NFL players to work with), or insert whatever asinine reason here.

I started a thread back in February outlining what I think are reasonable expectations for the offense/Jones, and why. When I wrote it I was assuming a 16 game season, but this is what I laid out:

2021 Targets

- Score 25 points per game.
- Achieve an AY/A of 7.5.
- Throw 30 TD passes.
- Allow fewer than 30 sacks

So adjust the TD passes and sacks for one more regular season game. These are not elite goals. They are slightly above average. Jones hits these and I'll get off his back.
Link - ( New Window )

when evaluating QB play. The offensive scheme and surrounding talent dictate a majority of that. I look at the QB situation more holistically.

Personally, with the way this offense is constructed, and assuming us going offense round 1, I expect this offense to be in the top 12 as far as YPP and points (with a solid defense backing them). When you factor in health, I think our skill players are above average now, and we have a middle of the road offensive line that run blocks well, but pass protects poorly. Obviously, depending on health (both ways) the expectations can change. Things are always fluid in the NFL due to the nature of the game.

In comment 15224163 Sean said:

Quote:

In comment 15224025 cosmicj said: Quote: What does it tell you when the team makes a high profile hire out of the Lions and we sign three Lions players and two players from one of the Lions divisional rivals? Connect the dots. This x1000. This is clearly what is happening. I think we are heading towards an O’Brien/Judge partnership. Both have New England ties. Both are young.

Happy days ahead...

In comment 15224304 Zeke's Alibi said:

Quote:

when evaluating QB play. The offensive scheme and surrounding talent dictate a majority of that. I look at the QB situation more holistically. Personally, with the way this offense is constructed, and assuming us going offense round 1, I expect this offense to be in the top 12 as far as YPP and points (with a solid defense backing them). When you factor in health, I think our skill players are above average now, and we have a middle of the road offensive line that run blocks well, but pass protects poorly. Obviously, depending on health (both ways) the expectations can change. Things are always fluid in the NFL due to the nature of the game.

No more excuses. Jones is getting a year that in my opinion he doesn't deserve. I think there's a high probability this year ends up worse than it could have been because he's getting that year.

I don't want to hear it. Jones can go play well and be at minimum an above average producer at quarterback, or he can go away. Enough already.

In comment 15224310 Go Terps said:

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In comment 15224304 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: when evaluating QB play. The offensive scheme and surrounding talent dictate a majority of that. I look at the QB situation more holistically. Personally, with the way this offense is constructed, and assuming us going offense round 1, I expect this offense to be in the top 12 as far as YPP and points (with a solid defense backing them). When you factor in health, I think our skill players are above average now, and we have a middle of the road offensive line that run blocks well, but pass protects poorly. Obviously, depending on health (both ways) the expectations can change. Things are always fluid in the NFL due to the nature of the game. No more excuses. Jones is getting a year that in my opinion he doesn't deserve. I think there's a high probability this year ends up worse than it could have been because he's getting that year. I don't want to hear it. Jones can go play well and be at minimum an above average producer at quarterback, or he can go away. Enough already.

So isn’t that why we got a good wide receiver and two-way tight end, trying to make less excuses for Jones?

As for giving two years for a quarterback, have a little patience, all right? Would you have fired Eli Manning if he didn’t gel in 2005? It took until ‘07 for him to really be accepted. Brady wasn’t a particularly great quarterback in the regular season until maybe ‘03, his second full season as a starter. Would you have fired him?

In comment 15224330 Angel Eyes said:

Quote:

In comment 15224310 Go Terps said: Quote: In comment 15224304 Zeke's Alibi said: Quote: when evaluating QB play. The offensive scheme and surrounding talent dictate a majority of that. I look at the QB situation more holistically. Personally, with the way this offense is constructed, and assuming us going offense round 1, I expect this offense to be in the top 12 as far as YPP and points (with a solid defense backing them). When you factor in health, I think our skill players are above average now, and we have a middle of the road offensive line that run blocks well, but pass protects poorly. Obviously, depending on health (both ways) the expectations can change. Things are always fluid in the NFL due to the nature of the game. No more excuses. Jones is getting a year that in my opinion he doesn't deserve. I think there's a high probability this year ends up worse than it could have been because he's getting that year. I don't want to hear it. Jones can go play well and be at minimum an above average producer at quarterback, or he can go away. Enough already. So isn’t that why we got a good wide receiver and two-way tight end, trying to make less excuses for Jones? As for giving two years for a quarterback, have a little patience, all right? Would you have fired Eli Manning if he didn’t gel in 2005? It took until ‘07 for him to really be accepted. Brady wasn’t a particularly great quarterback in the regular season until maybe ‘03, his second full season as a starter. Would you have fired him?

The league as a whole isn't as patient as it was in the early 00s. I expect new QBs to get 3 years max, or they're getting replaced

In comment 15223188 UConn4523 said:

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but he's definitely not a bust. They traded a 2nd for him, less than what Carolina just paid for Darnold and he was part of a SB team. He never elevated them, so I think others likely make the SB in his place, but he wasn't losing games for them. The last 2 years of his deal there's almost 0 dead money as well. For a 2nd round pick I don't know how that can all be categorized as bust.

If you like winning football games you'll like Garoppolo.

If you need sexy stats and ways to look good while losing, you won't like him.

I think there is a fair chance he is the Giants QB in 2022.

One thing I wonder about is if Judge cares as much as we do about Jones proving himself this year.

I think Judge wants to prove he can produce a winning team this year and next an Im not sure he cares if he does it by defense or running or Jones. Dg may care How, but I dont think in 2021 Judge cares as much.

Obviously, if Jones plays better, life and planning is easier in the years ahead. But with the credibility of a winning season whatever whatever weight Judge needs in the hallways of the Giants is much higher earned than if both Judge and Jones have smudges on their records.

Whats more, a better team is the right outcome no matter who is the QB. I note this because with an uncertain draft coming up, we may want to see Jones pass or fail; but Judge wants the whole team to pass. If thats defenders, thats defenders. If its developmental OL he believes in for the long run, I think he plays it straight up for the long run and whole team

Just a thought

In comment 15225081 Bill2 said:

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One thing I wonder about is if Judge cares as much as we do about Jones proving himself this year. I think Judge wants to prove he can produce a winning team this year and next an Im not sure he cares if he does it by defense or running or Jones. Dg may care How, but I dont think in 2021 Judge cares as much. Obviously, if Jones plays better, life and planning is easier in the years ahead. But with the credibility of a winning season whatever whatever weight Judge needs in the hallways of the Giants is much higher earned than if both Judge and Jones have smudges on their records. Whats more, a better team is the right outcome no matter who is the QB. I note this because with an uncertain draft coming up, we may want to see Jones pass or fail; but Judge wants the whole team to pass. If thats defenders, thats defenders. If its developmental OL he believes in for the long run, I think he plays it straight up for the long run and whole team Just a thought

A cogent thought, imo