I know most people don’t take Cowherd seriously, but I’ve heard him mention this twice now. He just referenced it again on his show after talking to Brock Huard about Sam Darnold.
Paraphrasing: Cowherd had a discussion with Jason Garrett a month ago off air. Garrett told Cowherd that he had a discussion with Jones last seaon and was very frank, he told Jones that he will not keep the job if he keeps turning the ball over at the rate he was. Jones ended up cutting down on the turnovers the next 4 games he played.
I’ve heard Cowherd mention this a few weeks back as well. I found it interesting.
That is if Cowherd's statement is even true... who knows.
Not blaming the OP for posting, mostly blaming Cowherd for sharing something that's fairly obvious.
More like
cowheard...have you had conversations with Jones about his turnovers.
Garrett.....yes.
I dont think you know what being coachable/coachability really means Bill....
Coachability isnt being able to state the obvious... it is about taking feedback and being able to quickly and successfully translate that into better play/outcomes.
You think Jameis Winston didn't know, and wasn't told he needed to stop turning the ball over??? I'm sure he was, but he didn't adapt and it didn't result in better play....
Did Tiki know he needed to stop fumbling? Obviously... but nothing changed until he was coached up by TC, listened to and embraced the coaching and eventually adapted and his play greatly improved.
The difference is good, coachable players are actually able to adapt and change and produce better results... which Jones clearly did over the next 4 games. Some players simply don't take coaching as well as others. That would be obvious if you played any organized sport on any level...
Its called coaching, I'm sure the conversation wasn't "hey, stop turning the ball over Daniel or you're benched" but rather "here is exactly what you need to do to stop turning the ball over... now go out and do it and prove to me you can adapt"
Some players cant adapt that fast, some can....
It's pretty obvious, if Cowherd's story is true, that "the talk" happened after the Tampa Bay game, where DJ threw two bad INTs.
The next week against WFT he broke his turnover streak. And was sacked five times. He had two six sack games later on.
It's easy to look at the sack numbers and blame the OL but the thing about football is that isn't baseball. Stats aren't generated from an individual battle between batter and pitcher but from a team dynamic.
It's pretty obvious, if Cowherd's story is true, that "the talk" happened after the Tampa Bay game, where DJ threw two bad INTs.
The next week against WFT he broke his turnover streak. And was sacked five times. He had two six sack games later on.
It's easy to look at the sack numbers and blame the OL but the thing about football is that isn't baseball. Stats aren't generated from an individual battle between batter and pitcher but from a team dynamic.
The implication here is that we're absolving the OL of responsibility and saying he allowed himself to be sacked because it was the right play.
The rushing numbers also don't bear out for those late season games either. The OL wasn't good.
A factor people seem to conveniently gloss over. They point to the AZ game when anyone with two eyes could see he shouldn't even played. He was playing well in that Bengals game and you could sense the points coming in droves in that one. Fucking great drive and then boom pops his hammy.
It's pretty obvious, if Cowherd's story is true, that "the talk" happened after the Tampa Bay game, where DJ threw two bad INTs.
The next week against WFT he broke his turnover streak. And was sacked five times. He had two six sack games later on.
It's easy to look at the sack numbers and blame the OL but the thing about football is that isn't baseball. Stats aren't generated from an individual battle between batter and pitcher but from a team dynamic.
The sacks were coming from the OL though. I'm going to leave out the first half of the year. The second half of the year they were an above average run blocking unit, and a subpar passing one. Things will probably remain the same there. But with a healthy Barkley it's going to take a ton of pressure off their pass blocking.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
I agree Producer. I’m hoping he starts to put together the combo of playing safe but taking smart chances as well this year. His first two years were kind of extremes. Year 1 he was constantly trying to make plays to a fault when you count the turnovers, but we were scoring more. Year 2 he looked like he was afraid of making a mistake every play. I did see a glimmer of hope late in the season though.
Agreed, this supports the draft o-line or WR argument in round 1 as well. The offense needs playmakers. Think about a player like Waddle, KG draws the double team, Jones dumps it to him on a 7 yard crossing route. Waddle turns those plays into big gains. Makes life easier for Jones and builds his confidence.
Lol. Could have been that too. But I'm a Jones believer but I have no problem if he told Jones he'd, meaning Jones. would lose the job if he kept turning the ball over. I use to wonder if Coughlin ever said it to Eli when he went through his high turnover episodes.
he better show something and show it consistently or he and garrett will both be out of a job sooner than later and the $200-plus FA spending spree this offseason won't mean dick
However, a clear side effect of concentrating on the lower turnover rate was the lower point production from the offense. Judge probably was willing to live with that in the short term because his defense was playing better and better as the season wore on.
But this cannot continue and Jones will need to show he can produce yards/points while mitigating the turnovers.
Or maybe tell himself not to have four fucking receivers running flat routes 5 yards off the LOS!
he better show something and show it consistently or he and garrett will both be out of a job sooner than later and the $200-plus FA spending spree this offseason won't mean dick
Hmmm, I love the slow with his reads like you have any idea what the you are talking about. Let's add in his offensive line couldn't even block themselves, his receivers either were too fucking slow, too close to the LOS or couldn't catch COVID in Wuhan last November.. Very simplistic critique of the QB when I highly doubt any QB would have done much with our shit show roster the last few years. When Eli struggled late we blamed the OL, the coaches etc. but Jones struggles and it is all his fault. Got it...
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and misses a couple games, turns the ball over a ton, is slow with his reads and looks to have become more timid or gunshy after garrett talked to him about the turnover problem, and who has not managed to beat a team with a winning record through his first two years.
he better show something and show it consistently or he and garrett will both be out of a job sooner than later and the $200-plus FA spending spree this offseason won't mean dick
Hmmm, I love the slow with his reads like you have any idea what the you are talking about. Let's add in his offensive line couldn't even block themselves, his receivers either were too fucking slow, too close to the LOS or couldn't catch COVID in Wuhan last November.. Very simplistic critique of the QB when I highly doubt any QB would have done much with our shit show roster the last few years. When Eli struggled late we blamed the OL, the coaches etc. but Jones struggles and it is all his fault. Got it...
remember when he had a chance to win the game v tampa bay but was slow with the end zone pass for 2? he even stated post-game he needs to be quicker and not hesitate there. that's what i'm talking about and that was not a one-time occurrence.
that's great that you believe in jones and blame the rest of the roster for his bad play. for me jones has a lot to prove.
I don't think I see a guy that looks afraid to make a mistake. I see a guy with pass catchers that neither play big or get separation and he's hesitating on rifling in a pass into a tiny window that increases the odds of turnovers. Something that he has struggled with. If we see the same things there where you see the double clutching bring the ball down this year after a October, his ceiling will be limited. I don't think that's going to get much better after 3 years, learning what life is like with actual players on outside, and some live fire.
He got credited for two fumbles that clearly weren't his fault. Plus what happened in the Cardinals game you might as well throw out. He shouldn't even have been out there. Now if you were quoting just stats from some random team, I'd buy your ignorance. As a Giants fan, you know all that, so you're just being disingenuous if you are leaving all that pertinent information out.
I do agree that better WR's will assist with as will other important components of a well functioning offense. Still, he needs to make those big throws that are difficult (to the sideline or in a seam on a line).
Jones did reduce the turnovers but also the production. The key to his growth will ability to produce while also taking better care of the ball. That is the piece he has yet to demonstrate consistently and separates average QBs from franchise QBs.
However, a clear side effect of concentrating on the lower turnover rate was the lower point production from the offense. Judge probably was willing to live with that in the short term because his defense was playing better and better as the season wore on.
But this cannot continue and Jones will need to show he can produce yards/points while mitigating the turnovers.
Exactly.
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He fumbled 6 times in the last 6 games. Or if you prefer, 4 times in the last 3. Are we giving him credit for his fumbles being recovered by his team?
He got credited for two fumbles that clearly weren't his fault. Plus what happened in the Cardinals game you might as well throw out. He shouldn't even have been out there. Now if you were quoting just stats from some random team, I'd buy your ignorance. As a Giants fan, you know all that, so you're just being disingenuous if you are leaving all that pertinent information out.
Zeke, come on. Not being 100% healthy doesn’t mean to be loose with the ball. No benefit of doubt there.
Zeke, come on. Not being 100% healthy doesn’t mean to be loose with the ball. No benefit of doubt there.
Googs, come on. Do you know how much pain he was in? It was clear he was hobbled to hell and as soon as you get that ankle twisted on any contact its like a lightning bolt, meanwhile you got guys trying to strip the ball. Ankle is a tough, tough injury to gut out at QB when it's not even close to healed. Not to mention the OL was a sieve that day. Our OL still stinks at pass blocking, but DJ when mobile was able to mask some of it.
I do agree that better WR's will assist with as will other important components of a well functioning offense. Still, he needs to make those big throws that are difficult (to the sideline or in a seam on a line).
There's tight, and practically non-existent where the risk of turnover is high.
But fine. If you want to ignore those fumbles in any analytic you are doing then I am not stopping you. Thx.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Not sure anyone said its "good enough" to just be coachable, but its better that Jones is... right? That is specifically important for Jones because he is still developing. Teams do not give up on guys who are talented and moldable/coachable.
Also, if you don't think Daniel Jones has the talent and athleticism to be successful in the NFL then we will never see eye to eye on this, but I also don't know how someone CANT see his potential.
This is a make or break year for Jones - its all on the line. The Giants believe the talent and potential is there, that's why they drafted him where they did. Now it comes down to whether or not Jones can grow, develop and realize his true potential. And in my mind that all comes down to coachability moving forward. I really don't understand how that can be so overlooked/under appreciated.
But fine. If you want to ignore those fumbles in any analytic you are doing then I am not stopping you. Thx.
Let me ask you would you fault a guy that fumbles when he gets a legit injury? I don't. I like to see them hold onto it, but as someone that's had all sorts of sports related injuries, I understand why it squirts out. The rest of the world ceasts to exists. It's a synaptic response, not much you can do. That's what happens when you force an ankle too early. Much rather deal with a sprained knee, with a little better ability to protect. And I doubt they shot him up with much because in the NFL you run the risk of a very severe injury, especially at the position.
Is this new ground, a shocking revelation worth posting or just shit stirring?