I know most people don’t take Cowherd seriously, but I’ve heard him mention this twice now. He just referenced it again on his show after talking to Brock Huard about Sam Darnold.
Paraphrasing: Cowherd had a discussion with Jason Garrett a month ago off air. Garrett told Cowherd that he had a discussion with Jones last seaon and was very frank, he told Jones that he will not keep the job if he keeps turning the ball over at the rate he was. Jones ended up cutting down on the turnovers the next 4 games he played.
I’ve heard Cowherd mention this a few weeks back as well. I found it interesting.
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is that when Jones stopped turning the ball over, he also stopped moving the offense.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Not sure anyone said its "good enough" to just be coachable, but its better that Jones is... right? That is specifically important for Jones because he is still developing. Teams do not give up on guys who are talented and moldable/coachable.
Also, if you don't think Daniel Jones has the talent and athleticism to be successful in the NFL then we will never see eye to eye on this, but I also don't know how someone CANT see his potential.
This is a make or break year for Jones - its all on the line. The Giants believe the talent and potential is there, that's why they drafted him where they did. Now it comes down to whether or not Jones can grow, develop and realize his true potential. And in my mind that all comes down to coachability moving forward. I really don't understand how that can be so overlooked/under appreciated.
There are a lot of players that are *coachable*. It is in no way special. There are precious few with the talent to do what we need from Jones. You don't understand why I am down on him? Have you looked at his stats? Have you seen the performance. He is inaccurate. Easily rattled. Prone to mistakes. Makes bone-headed plays. Lacks leadership. I am having a hard time understanding what you like. A few good spirals, a few good long passes. Ok.. I've seen the same stuff from Mariota, Trubisky, Osweiler, and Winston. They flashed just as much, just as often as Jones. And they are terrible.
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In comment 15223141 Producer said:
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is that when Jones stopped turning the ball over, he also stopped moving the offense.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Not sure anyone said its "good enough" to just be coachable, but its better that Jones is... right? That is specifically important for Jones because he is still developing. Teams do not give up on guys who are talented and moldable/coachable.
Also, if you don't think Daniel Jones has the talent and athleticism to be successful in the NFL then we will never see eye to eye on this, but I also don't know how someone CANT see his potential.
This is a make or break year for Jones - its all on the line. The Giants believe the talent and potential is there, that's why they drafted him where they did. Now it comes down to whether or not Jones can grow, develop and realize his true potential. And in my mind that all comes down to coachability moving forward. I really don't understand how that can be so overlooked/under appreciated.
There are a lot of players that are *coachable*. It is in no way special. There are precious few with the talent to do what we need from Jones. You don't understand why I am down on him? Have you looked at his stats? Have you seen the performance. He is inaccurate. Easily rattled. Prone to mistakes. Makes bone-headed plays. Lacks leadership. I am having a hard time understanding what you like. A few good spirals, a few good long passes. Ok.. I've seen the same stuff from Mariota, Trubisky, Osweiler, and Winston. They flashed just as much, just as often as Jones. And they are terrible.
Lacks leadership.... right. Did you watch his first game in Tampa? Jones took over that game and showed leadership and killer instinct - just one of many examples. Organizing his own training with new teammates last week... lack of leadership, yep.
Have you heard what the coaches and team think of him? Because Eli wasn’t a leader in his first few years... according to Tiki. We saw how that turned out, and I am not saying Jones is the talent Eli was, but we’ve heard this argument before and everyone was proven wrong.
Jones has shown he can get it done, he has a great deep ball and above average athleticism, and despite the baseless claim you make above he throws an accurate ball - like did you even watch his play? He didn’t develop the nickname Danny Dimes because he was throwing inaccurate balls his rookie year....... but that doesn’t matter if he’s throwing to Engram who just slaps the ball into the defenders hands. Not to mention the run against the Eagles where he tripped and got ripped on for it.... he was literally pulling away from DBs, they gave up on the play because they didn’t think they could catch him. Watch the tape.
I take it you probably don’t watch a lot of actual film. There’s no reason in arguing with you, the next 12 months will tell the tale. And for the sake of the organization I hope you're flat out wrong.
Anyone with basic knowledge of the game understands that Jones has the talent to be a franchise quarterback. What matters most is does he have the ability to develop and grow. And hey guess what... development and growth means you are COACHABLE. You don’t transform into a better player without embracing change.
Mariota, Winston, Turbisky and the other losers you mentioned..... maybe they have tremendous talent, probably more talent in some cases... and maybe the difference between them and successful franchise quarterbacks is that they lacked the ability to embrace change, to learn and grow and actually execute what they are coached up on.
This is a make or break year for Jones, and I would bet a large sum that he surprises all of the Giants “fans” who just look for a reason to be negative and wallow in their own self pity. Can you not just be optimistic and get behind a kid who clearly has the talent, and is clearly working his ass off to get better? Like what more do you want.
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In comment 15223526 Bergen346 said:
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In comment 15223141 Producer said:
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is that when Jones stopped turning the ball over, he also stopped moving the offense.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Not sure anyone said its "good enough" to just be coachable, but its better that Jones is... right? That is specifically important for Jones because he is still developing. Teams do not give up on guys who are talented and moldable/coachable.
Also, if you don't think Daniel Jones has the talent and athleticism to be successful in the NFL then we will never see eye to eye on this, but I also don't know how someone CANT see his potential.
This is a make or break year for Jones - its all on the line. The Giants believe the talent and potential is there, that's why they drafted him where they did. Now it comes down to whether or not Jones can grow, develop and realize his true potential. And in my mind that all comes down to coachability moving forward. I really don't understand how that can be so overlooked/under appreciated.
There are a lot of players that are *coachable*. It is in no way special. There are precious few with the talent to do what we need from Jones. You don't understand why I am down on him? Have you looked at his stats? Have you seen the performance. He is inaccurate. Easily rattled. Prone to mistakes. Makes bone-headed plays. Lacks leadership. I am having a hard time understanding what you like. A few good spirals, a few good long passes. Ok.. I've seen the same stuff from Mariota, Trubisky, Osweiler, and Winston. They flashed just as much, just as often as Jones. And they are terrible.
Lacks leadership.... right. Did you watch his first game in Tampa? Jones took over that game and showed leadership and killer instinct - just one of many examples. Organizing his own training with new teammates last week... lack of leadership, yep.
Have you heard what the coaches and team think of him? Because Eli wasn’t a leader in his first few years... according to Tiki. We saw how that turned out, and I am not saying Jones is the talent Eli was, but we’ve heard this argument before and everyone was proven wrong.
Jones has shown he can get it done, he has a great deep ball and above average athleticism, and despite the baseless claim you make above he throws an accurate ball - like did you even watch his play? He didn’t develop the nickname Danny Dimes because he was throwing inaccurate balls his rookie year....... but that doesn’t matter if he’s throwing to Engram who just slaps the ball into the defenders hands. Not to mention the run against the Eagles where he tripped and got ripped on for it.... he was literally pulling away from DBs, they gave up on the play because they didn’t think they could catch him. Watch the tape.
I take it you probably don’t watch a lot of actual film. There’s no reason in arguing with you, the next 12 months will tell the tale. And for the sake of the organization I hope you're flat out wrong.
Anyone with basic knowledge of the game understands that Jones has the talent to be a franchise quarterback. What matters most is does he have the ability to develop and grow. And hey guess what... development and growth means you are COACHABLE. You don’t transform into a better player without embracing change.
Mariota, Winston, Turbisky and the other losers you mentioned..... maybe they have tremendous talent, probably more talent in some cases... and maybe the difference between them and successful franchise quarterbacks is that they lacked the ability to embrace change, to learn and grow and actually execute what they are coached up on.
This is a make or break year for Jones, and I would bet a large sum that he surprises all of the Giants “fans” who just look for a reason to be negative and wallow in their own self pity. Can you not just be optimistic and get behind a kid who clearly has the talent, and is clearly working his ass off to get better? Like what more do you want.
You mention the Tampa game as a great one for Jones, well Jones literally lost that game by boning an easy 2 pt conversion throw. A throw *you* could make. It was an inaccurate throw to the wrong side. Have you checked his completion pct? 31st in the league in completion pct is not a ranking an accurate QB puts up. There is nothing clear about the notion that Jones has what it takes to be good. He has been very poor, and most of the league and most observers have noticed it.
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In comment 15223606 Producer said:
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In comment 15223526 Bergen346 said:
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In comment 15223141 Producer said:
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is that when Jones stopped turning the ball over, he also stopped moving the offense.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Not sure anyone said its "good enough" to just be coachable, but its better that Jones is... right? That is specifically important for Jones because he is still developing. Teams do not give up on guys who are talented and moldable/coachable.
Also, if you don't think Daniel Jones has the talent and athleticism to be successful in the NFL then we will never see eye to eye on this, but I also don't know how someone CANT see his potential.
This is a make or break year for Jones - its all on the line. The Giants believe the talent and potential is there, that's why they drafted him where they did. Now it comes down to whether or not Jones can grow, develop and realize his true potential. And in my mind that all comes down to coachability moving forward. I really don't understand how that can be so overlooked/under appreciated.
There are a lot of players that are *coachable*. It is in no way special. There are precious few with the talent to do what we need from Jones. You don't understand why I am down on him? Have you looked at his stats? Have you seen the performance. He is inaccurate. Easily rattled. Prone to mistakes. Makes bone-headed plays. Lacks leadership. I am having a hard time understanding what you like. A few good spirals, a few good long passes. Ok.. I've seen the same stuff from Mariota, Trubisky, Osweiler, and Winston. They flashed just as much, just as often as Jones. And they are terrible.
Lacks leadership.... right. Did you watch his first game in Tampa? Jones took over that game and showed leadership and killer instinct - just one of many examples. Organizing his own training with new teammates last week... lack of leadership, yep.
Have you heard what the coaches and team think of him? Because Eli wasn’t a leader in his first few years... according to Tiki. We saw how that turned out, and I am not saying Jones is the talent Eli was, but we’ve heard this argument before and everyone was proven wrong.
Jones has shown he can get it done, he has a great deep ball and above average athleticism, and despite the baseless claim you make above he throws an accurate ball - like did you even watch his play? He didn’t develop the nickname Danny Dimes because he was throwing inaccurate balls his rookie year....... but that doesn’t matter if he’s throwing to Engram who just slaps the ball into the defenders hands. Not to mention the run against the Eagles where he tripped and got ripped on for it.... he was literally pulling away from DBs, they gave up on the play because they didn’t think they could catch him. Watch the tape.
I take it you probably don’t watch a lot of actual film. There’s no reason in arguing with you, the next 12 months will tell the tale. And for the sake of the organization I hope you're flat out wrong.
Anyone with basic knowledge of the game understands that Jones has the talent to be a franchise quarterback. What matters most is does he have the ability to develop and grow. And hey guess what... development and growth means you are COACHABLE. You don’t transform into a better player without embracing change.
Mariota, Winston, Turbisky and the other losers you mentioned..... maybe they have tremendous talent, probably more talent in some cases... and maybe the difference between them and successful franchise quarterbacks is that they lacked the ability to embrace change, to learn and grow and actually execute what they are coached up on.
This is a make or break year for Jones, and I would bet a large sum that he surprises all of the Giants “fans” who just look for a reason to be negative and wallow in their own self pity. Can you not just be optimistic and get behind a kid who clearly has the talent, and is clearly working his ass off to get better? Like what more do you want.
You mention the Tampa game as a great one for Jones, well Jones literally lost that game by boning an easy 2 pt conversion throw. A throw *you* could make. It was an inaccurate throw to the wrong side. Have you checked his completion pct? 31st in the league in completion pct is not a ranking an accurate QB puts up. There is nothing clear about the notion that Jones has what it takes to be good. He has been very poor, and most of the league and most observers have noticed it.
You mean the Tampa game where Jones stood in the pocket with balls of steal and WON the game, with accurate throws, ballsy throws and when it mattered most he took the game into his hands by tucking it and marching the football into the end zone? Maybe you just don’t remember that game from his rookie season.
And how many of jones incompletions were do to dropped passes? “Jones finished 2018 with a 60.5 completion percentage, but if you factor in the dropped passes, it skyrockets. If you add the 33 drops to his completions (237 –> 270) his % increases to 68.9%. That’s a number worth writing down”
Maybe having one of the worst receiving corps in the NFL and Even Engram had something to do with that? Jones can only put the ball in a WR’s hands, he cant catch it for them.
I really believe you are a passionate Giants fan and I do respect your opinion, but I also believe you haven’t taken any time to actually watch film and really understand what you’re talking about. But that is the world we live in. With better WRs and another year under his belt I think Jones will surprise you. And I hope he does. Maybe it’ll give you a reason to actually get behind someone who cares deeply about being the best they can be.
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In comment 15223718 Bergen346 said:
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In comment 15223606 Producer said:
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In comment 15223526 Bergen346 said:
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In comment 15223141 Producer said:
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is that when Jones stopped turning the ball over, he also stopped moving the offense.
Guess what, playing QB in the NFL is not easy. It's not good enough to be *coachable*. You also have to have the talent. And with most QBs who turn the ball over when they let it loose, they stop being productive when they play more conservatively. That is what I saw from Jones in 2020.
Not sure anyone said its "good enough" to just be coachable, but its better that Jones is... right? That is specifically important for Jones because he is still developing. Teams do not give up on guys who are talented and moldable/coachable.
Also, if you don't think Daniel Jones has the talent and athleticism to be successful in the NFL then we will never see eye to eye on this, but I also don't know how someone CANT see his potential.
This is a make or break year for Jones - its all on the line. The Giants believe the talent and potential is there, that's why they drafted him where they did. Now it comes down to whether or not Jones can grow, develop and realize his true potential. And in my mind that all comes down to coachability moving forward. I really don't understand how that can be so overlooked/under appreciated.
There are a lot of players that are *coachable*. It is in no way special. There are precious few with the talent to do what we need from Jones. You don't understand why I am down on him? Have you looked at his stats? Have you seen the performance. He is inaccurate. Easily rattled. Prone to mistakes. Makes bone-headed plays. Lacks leadership. I am having a hard time understanding what you like. A few good spirals, a few good long passes. Ok.. I've seen the same stuff from Mariota, Trubisky, Osweiler, and Winston. They flashed just as much, just as often as Jones. And they are terrible.
Lacks leadership.... right. Did you watch his first game in Tampa? Jones took over that game and showed leadership and killer instinct - just one of many examples. Organizing his own training with new teammates last week... lack of leadership, yep.
Have you heard what the coaches and team think of him? Because Eli wasn’t a leader in his first few years... according to Tiki. We saw how that turned out, and I am not saying Jones is the talent Eli was, but we’ve heard this argument before and everyone was proven wrong.
Jones has shown he can get it done, he has a great deep ball and above average athleticism, and despite the baseless claim you make above he throws an accurate ball - like did you even watch his play? He didn’t develop the nickname Danny Dimes because he was throwing inaccurate balls his rookie year....... but that doesn’t matter if he’s throwing to Engram who just slaps the ball into the defenders hands. Not to mention the run against the Eagles where he tripped and got ripped on for it.... he was literally pulling away from DBs, they gave up on the play because they didn’t think they could catch him. Watch the tape.
I take it you probably don’t watch a lot of actual film. There’s no reason in arguing with you, the next 12 months will tell the tale. And for the sake of the organization I hope you're flat out wrong.
Anyone with basic knowledge of the game understands that Jones has the talent to be a franchise quarterback. What matters most is does he have the ability to develop and grow. And hey guess what... development and growth means you are COACHABLE. You don’t transform into a better player without embracing change.
Mariota, Winston, Turbisky and the other losers you mentioned..... maybe they have tremendous talent, probably more talent in some cases... and maybe the difference between them and successful franchise quarterbacks is that they lacked the ability to embrace change, to learn and grow and actually execute what they are coached up on.
This is a make or break year for Jones, and I would bet a large sum that he surprises all of the Giants “fans” who just look for a reason to be negative and wallow in their own self pity. Can you not just be optimistic and get behind a kid who clearly has the talent, and is clearly working his ass off to get better? Like what more do you want.
You mention the Tampa game as a great one for Jones, well Jones literally lost that game by boning an easy 2 pt conversion throw. A throw *you* could make. It was an inaccurate throw to the wrong side. Have you checked his completion pct? 31st in the league in completion pct is not a ranking an accurate QB puts up. There is nothing clear about the notion that Jones has what it takes to be good. He has been very poor, and most of the league and most observers have noticed it.
You mean the Tampa game where Jones stood in the pocket with balls of steal and WON the game, with accurate throws, ballsy throws and when it mattered most he took the game into his hands by tucking it and marching the football into the end zone? Maybe you just don’t remember that game from his rookie season.
And how many of jones incompletions were do to dropped passes? “Jones finished 2018 with a 60.5 completion percentage, but if you factor in the dropped passes, it skyrockets. If you add the 33 drops to his completions (237 –> 270) his % increases to 68.9%. That’s a number worth writing down”
Maybe having one of the worst receiving corps in the NFL and Even Engram had something to do with that? Jones can only put the ball in a WR’s hands, he cant catch it for them.
I really believe you are a passionate Giants fan and I do respect your opinion, but I also believe you haven’t taken any time to actually watch film and really understand what you’re talking about. But that is the world we live in. With better WRs and another year under his belt I think Jones will surprise you. And I hope he does. Maybe it’ll give you a reason to actually get behind someone who cares deeply about being the best they can be.
The tampa game that the Giant's won because of a missed chip in field goal?
If we have to count engrams dropped ball against PHI as a win, then that game counts as a loss
“ Jones is also ninth in the league for most dropped passes (24). Take away those drops—and a few of them have come on third downs—and Jones has an adjusted completion percentage of 75.4%, 21st out of 30 quarterbacks who have taken at least 50% of 553 dropbacks (that number being the most dropbacks taken by a quarterback in the NFL, Patrick Mahomes of the Chiefs).”
But yes, lets take everything positive he did in that game and just ignore holding the defense accountable for letting TB get within field goal range.
I really don’t understand how you cant come away from watching film and think Daniel Jones is a failure. His story has just begun.
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told by a coach that turning the ball over 2-3 times a game is unacceptable?
I dont think you know what being coachable/coachability really means Bill....
Coachability isnt being able to state the obvious... it is about taking feedback and being able to quickly and successfully translate that into better play/outcomes.
You think Jameis Winston didn't know, and wasn't told he needed to stop turning the ball over??? I'm sure he was, but he didn't adapt and it didn't result in better play....
Did Tiki know he needed to stop fumbling? Obviously... but nothing changed until he was coached up by TC, listened to and embraced the coaching and eventually adapted and his play greatly improved.
The difference is good, coachable players are actually able to adapt and change and produce better results... which Jones clearly did over the next 4 games. Some players simply don't take coaching as well as others. That would be obvious if you played any organized sport on any level...
Sometimes it is the coach that changes as he learns that some guys require a different approach.
That said, IMV, playing a sport is not really going to give insight into whether or not a guy is coachable. (Or to discovering the best way to coach them up)
But yes, lets take everything positive he did in that game and just ignore holding the defense accountable for letting TB get within field goal range.
I really don’t understand how you cant come away from watching film and think Daniel Jones is a failure. His story has just begun.
My point was if we're going to play the what-if game to five Jones wins, which is a comment post in any thread about DJ8, then we have to play the what-if game the other was as well.
But yes, lets take everything positive he did in that game and just ignore holding the defense accountable for letting TB get within field goal range.
I really don’t understand how you cant come away from watching film and think Daniel Jones is a failure. His story has just begun.
People see what they want to see. Like Producer's post about the failed two point conversion. I broke the play down in fucking depth that week. Shaq Barrett made a tremendous heads-up play getting in the passing lane (one of the few ways you can stop rub routes) DJ recognized it and pulled it down and delivered a 50/50 ball that should have been flagged. Could the pass been better? Sure. But the pass was high difficulty because he didn't have time to get his feet right. All people see is oh a 10 yard pass wasn't on money, this guy sucks.
He could have also recognized it a bit earlier and floated it in there, but the guy is a 2nd year QB. I expect a franchise guy to make that type of play in his 5th year, not a second year guy.
eli beat teams with a winning record in his second year and showed steady, marked improvement. eli won a superbowl in his fourth year.
jones has yet to beat a team with a winning record, regressed from year 1 to year 2, has missed time with leg injuries each year, led the league in fumbles his first year despite only playing 12 games, and only threw 11 TDs this past year.
no one is hoping he fails. but through two seasons by any objective measure, he's been failing.
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In comment 15223718 Bergen346 said:
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In comment 15223606 Producer said:
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I really believe you are a passionate Giants fan and I do respect your opinion, but I also believe you haven’t taken any time to actually watch film and really understand what you’re talking about. But that is the world we live in. With better WRs and another year under his belt I think Jones will surprise you. And I hope he does. Maybe it’ll give you a reason to actually get behind someone who cares deeply about being the best they can be.
I watch *A LOT* of football. Almost every Sunday I watch 10 hours and flip between all the games. I don't think I am an expert by any means but I have developed some strong feelings about QB play. And of course we can disagree on these issues. But having a few bright spots isn't what the position is all about, imo. They all have bright spots. The guys who fail are very good players and occasionally look great. The truly great players eliminate mistakes. The perform with a consistency that eludes other players. When Trubisky hits a great pass or has a great game, yea he looks like Peyton Manning. But the differenced is that Manning played like Manning 95% of the time, and Trubisky does it 35% of the time. That's not a *coachable* problem. That is a *talent* problem. To this point, I do not see the talent in Jones to perform at an elite level enough of the time. It is a talent to be as consistently great as Mahomes and Brady and Rodgers. And let us not forget that consistency isn't the only hurdle Jones has to overcome. He doesn't have their arm talent either, and probably not the intellectual approach to the game those guys have. But we will see, won't we? And I do hope I am wrong.
My real worry is that Jones will be *just* good enough to put together a few more wins and scrape by and we will settle for a non-elite, game manager for a couple more years, when we have a roster that, with a great QB, could really start a run of championship challenges. I don't think we should settle for Jones just because we drafted him at #6. If this kid can't play at the Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson level, what the hell are we doing? We need to keep looking to find someone who will. Look at SF. They are not settling for Jimmy G. And by all appearances Jimmy G is a lot better than Jones. Look at KC. They didn't settle for Alex Smith. And by all appearances Jones is not at the level of peak Alex Smith.
Don't settle just because Jones is our guy.
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In comment 15223725 Producer said:
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In comment 15223718 Bergen346 said:
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In comment 15223606 Producer said:
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I really believe you are a passionate Giants fan and I do respect your opinion, but I also believe you haven’t taken any time to actually watch film and really understand what you’re talking about. But that is the world we live in. With better WRs and another year under his belt I think Jones will surprise you. And I hope he does. Maybe it’ll give you a reason to actually get behind someone who cares deeply about being the best they can be.
I watch *A LOT* of football. Almost every Sunday I watch 10 hours and flip between all the games. I don't think I am an expert by any means but I have developed some strong feelings about QB play. And of course we can disagree on these issues. But having a few bright spots isn't what the position is all about, imo. They all have bright spots. The guys who fail are very good players and occasionally look great. The truly great players eliminate mistakes. The perform with a consistency that eludes other players. When Trubisky hits a great pass or has a great game, yea he looks like Peyton Manning. But the differenced is that Manning played like Manning 95% of the time, and Trubisky does it 35% of the time. That's not a *coachable* problem. That is a *talent* problem. To this point, I do not see the talent in Jones to perform at an elite level enough of the time. It is a talent to be as consistently great as Mahomes and Brady and Rodgers. And let us not forget that consistency isn't the only hurdle Jones has to overcome. He doesn't have their arm talent either, and probably not the intellectual approach to the game those guys have. But we will see, won't we? And I do hope I am wrong.
My real worry is that Jones will be *just* good enough to put together a few more wins and scrape by and we will settle for a non-elite, game manager for a couple more years, when we have a roster that, with a great QB, could really start a run of championship challenges. I don't think we should settle for Jones just because we drafted him at #6. If this kid can't play at the Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson level, what the hell are we doing? We need to keep looking to find someone who will. Look at SF. They are not settling for Jimmy G. And by all appearances Jimmy G is a lot better than Jones. Look at KC. They didn't settle for Alex Smith. And by all appearances Jones is not at the level of peak Alex Smith.
Don't settle just because Jones is our guy.
So basically if he is not a Top 5 QB move on? Got it. Therefore 27 teams should be looking for new QB's. I have no problem drafting a QB if you are not comfortable that your current one is "the guy," but only when you are in a position to do so. To get to a position to draft a QB better than Jones probably costs us multiple 1st rounders. We don't have enough of a roster to do that. KC. Mahomes cost KC a 3rd and a future 1st to move up 17 spots. That pales in comparison to what SF paid to get from 12 to 3.
There's a chance one of Lance or Fields could drop to us; either is a better prospect than Jones, and has the benefit of an added two years of a rookie contract.
There's a chance one of Lance or Fields could drop to us; either is a better prospect than Jones, and has the benefit of an added two years of a rookie contract.
I disagree on Lance. When I see him he reminds me of J.P. Losman coming out of Tulane. Not to mention that everyone says he needs a minimum of one redshirt year so you are blowing one of the added two years of a rookie contract. Fields my problem is he has some of the same flaws that Jones did coming out of Duke. When he faced a stiff pass rush he struggled making the right reads. If he is a player that needs an OL in place I am not sure that works for where the Giants are at.
From what you have been saying about Jones he would get us less than nothing in a trade
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And an additional benefit would be what we might get for Jones in trade.
From what you have been saying about Jones he would get us less than nothing in a trade
Another organization may make the same mistake the Giants made in their assessment of him.
There's a chance one of Lance or Fields could drop to us; either is a better prospect than Jones, and has the benefit of an added two years of a rookie contract.
I've disagreed with a lot of your assessments of Jones. I guess we will see this season if you know what you are talking about with this statement. If Lance or Fields lights it up, you'll be justified in my eyes.
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"To get to a position to draft a QB better than Jones probably costs us multiple 1st rounders. "
There's a chance one of Lance or Fields could drop to us; either is a better prospect than Jones, and has the benefit of an added two years of a rookie contract.
I've disagreed with a lot of your assessments of Jones. I guess we will see this season if you know what you are talking about with this statement. If Lance or Fields lights it up, you'll be justified in my eyes.
I don't even love Fields. But given the other factors (resetting rookie clock, getting something in trade for Jones), I'd be fine picking him.
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"To get to a position to draft a QB better than Jones probably costs us multiple 1st rounders. "
There's a chance one of Lance or Fields could drop to us; either is a better prospect than Jones, and has the benefit of an added two years of a rookie contract.
I've disagreed with a lot of your assessments of Jones. I guess we will see this season if you know what you are talking about with this statement. If Lance or Fields lights it up, you'll be justified in my eyes.
I am very excited about Lance. I think he will go higher than people expect. If we could deal Jones for Lance I would do it. But that won't be an option.
Here is Matt Waldman's eval of Lance.
Matt Waldman's RSP Film Room No. 200: QB Trey Lance (NDSU) - ( New Window )
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I really believe you are a passionate Giants fan and I do respect your opinion, but I also believe you haven’t taken any time to actually watch film and really understand what you’re talking about. But that is the world we live in. With better WRs and another year under his belt I think Jones will surprise you. And I hope he does. Maybe it’ll give you a reason to actually get behind someone who cares deeply about being the best they can be.
I watch *A LOT* of football. Almost every Sunday I watch 10 hours and flip between all the games. I don't think I am an expert by any means but I have developed some strong feelings about QB play. And of course we can disagree on these issues. But having a few bright spots isn't what the position is all about, imo. They all have bright spots. The guys who fail are very good players and occasionally look great. The truly great players eliminate mistakes. The perform with a consistency that eludes other players. When Trubisky hits a great pass or has a great game, yea he looks like Peyton Manning. But the differenced is that Manning played like Manning 95% of the time, and Trubisky does it 35% of the time. That's not a *coachable* problem. That is a *talent* problem. To this point, I do not see the talent in Jones to perform at an elite level enough of the time. It is a talent to be as consistently great as Mahomes and Brady and Rodgers. And let us not forget that consistency isn't the only hurdle Jones has to overcome. He doesn't have their arm talent either, and probably not the intellectual approach to the game those guys have. But we will see, won't we? And I do hope I am wrong.
My real worry is that Jones will be *just* good enough to put together a few more wins and scrape by and we will settle for a non-elite, game manager for a couple more years, when we have a roster that, with a great QB, could really start a run of championship challenges. I don't think we should settle for Jones just because we drafted him at #6. If this kid can't play at the Rodgers, Mahomes, Brady, Wilson level, what the hell are we doing? We need to keep looking to find someone who will. Look at SF. They are not settling for Jimmy G. And by all appearances Jimmy G is a lot better than Jones. Look at KC. They didn't settle for Alex Smith. And by all appearances Jones is not at the level of peak Alex Smith.
Don't settle just because Jones is our guy.
So basically if he is not a Top 5 QB move on? Got it. Therefore 27 teams should be looking for new QB's. I have no problem drafting a QB if you are not comfortable that your current one is "the guy," but only when you are in a position to do so. To get to a position to draft a QB better than Jones probably costs us multiple 1st rounders. We don't have enough of a roster to do that. KC. Mahomes cost KC a 3rd and a future 1st to move up 17 spots. That pales in comparison to what SF paid to get from 12 to 3.
elite or great upside QB. There are probably 8 to 10. If you don't have one of those guys I believe you have a QB problem. In addition to the others mentioned, I would include Herbert, Burrow, (I guess Tannehill but I'm not sold), Kyler (for now), Lamar, Watson, Allen. If you don't have one of those guys I think it is wise to keep your eyes open.
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And an additional benefit would be what we might get for Jones in trade.
From what you have been saying about Jones he would get us less than nothing in a trade
Well, half of this board defends the Barkley pick by say the alternative Darnold sucks. And the Jets were rumored to have been offered a first rd pick by the Niners for him this offseason. So...