So, banking off the New CBS Mock draft thread where the Giants trade back with the Patriots in exchange for a second-round draft pick, using their first round pick to draft LB Micah Parsons, with the Giants using one of those for Edge Carlos Basham and the other on TE Freiermuth, could the Giants make this defense work?
As a base 3-4:
LDE: Dexter Lawrence
NT: Danny Shelton
RDE: Leonard Williams
LOLB: Reggie Ragland (according to posters here he’s a SAM)
LILB: Micah Parsons/Tae Crowder
RILB/MIKE: Blake Martinez
ROLB: Carter Coughlin/Cam Brown
LCB: James Bradberry
SS: Jabrill Peppers
FS: Xavier McKinney
RCB: Adoree Jackson
On passing downs, nickel defense. Shelton goes to the bench, Basham and Odenigbo come in on passing downs.
LDE: Carlos Basham
LDT: Dexter Lawrence
RDT: Leonard Williams
RDE: Ifeadi Odenigbo
LB: Micah Parsons/Reggie Ragland/Carter Coughlin/Cam Brown (depending on what’s needed)
LB: Blake Martinez
LCB: James Bradberry
SS/QLB (quasi-linebacker): Jabrill Peppers
FS: Xavier McKinney
SlS/Nickel: Logan Ryan/Darnay Holmes
RCB: Adoree Jackson
New CBS Mock - (
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Not counting on Carter, but Ximines, Anderson, Odenigbo, Trent Harris, and Niko Lalos are all in the mix along with Basham if this came true. Parsons might figure into the mix on the outside as well in some packages.
Personally, I feel that since they can'r really set the edge effectively Coughlin should be moved inside and Brown should be a coverage LB in the middle like a poor man's Isaiah Simmons.
I dont think either happens.
The idea Being having our best 4 LB’s on the field. It comes down to the health of last years starters. Just keep in mind the Giants went after Leonard Floyd pretty aggressively before he RE-signed with the Rams.
They obviously see Edge as a need.
Leatherwood and Davis (to give examples) have the wrong skillset; they’re not good pass protectors. As for Freiermuth, I’m looking for a tight end who can block and catch because I don’t trust Engram to do both.
The idea Being having our best 4 LB’s on the field. It comes down to the health of last years starters. Just keep in mind the Giants went after Leonard Floyd pretty aggressively before he RE-signed with the Rams.
They obviously see Edge as a need.
Alternatively for the linebackers:
LOLB/SAM: Cam Brown/Carter Coughlin (Graham used Coughlin as a spy in games with mobile quarterbacks)
LILB/WILL: Reggie Ragland/Tae Crowder
RILB/MIKE: Blake Martinez
ROLB: Micah Parsons/Oshane Ximines? (Still not high on his run defense)
Quote:
a 2nd rounder on Freiermuth. Take Leatherwood or one of the other OL/OGs with one of the 2nd rounders...
Leatherwood and Davis (to give examples) have the wrong skillset; they’re not good pass protectors. As for Freiermuth, I’m looking for a tight end who can block and catch because I don’t trust Engram to do both.
Leatherwood does and there are others that can play guard that will be there. Last thing the Giants need is a TE at #42, it would most definitely be a waste. They can survive the year with what they have.
Took the conversation in a different direction; I extrapolated a plan from that and tried to make sense of how the Giants would use Parsons.
I'm not feeling that, but then again Dave Gettleman and I don't hang out much so what do I know.
Looking at the current roster talent it would seem conceivable that most of Grahams packages would include 5 or 6 DBs to match the offensive personnel in their "base" package with Peppers or McKinney playing in the box as the extra "LB" . If the Giants draft Parsons then I don't think they will necessarily play him in the "Edge" position b/c he does not seem best fit to fight off OTs in the NFL at the point of attack and would really excel in a scheme where he can cover TE/RB or chase down runners in the open field. Blitzing would be part of the game plan for Parsons, but I am guessing it would be disguised and not the traditional stand-up Will OLB rushing every down out of the base 3-4.
Looking at the current roster talent it would seem conceivable that most of Grahams packages would include 5 or 6 DBs to match the offensive personnel in their "base" package with Peppers or McKinney playing in the box as the extra "LB" . If the Giants draft Parsons then I don't think they will necessarily play him in the "Edge" position b/c he does not seem best fit to fight off OTs in the NFL at the point of attack and would really excel in a scheme where he can cover TE/RB or chase down runners in the open field. Blitzing would be part of the game plan for Parsons, but I am guessing it would be disguised and not the traditional stand-up Will OLB rushing every down out of the base 3-4.
Hence why there’s the 4-2-5 nickel defense in the OP; in that one Peppers is the safety in the “box” while McKinney is the free safety downfield. I don’t know what role Parsons would play; everything I’ve read (including Sy’s analyses) indicates he’s a good blitzer (he played DE in high school) and needs improvement in coverage. I wouldn’t necessarily give him responsibility of covering a guy like Gronk.
As for 4-3 and 3-4, that’s how I can understand defenses; I’m a young guy who prefers old-school when it comes to defense by rushing four or five and sending everyone else back into coverage, not having the rushers play contain and give the quarterback enough time to pick apart the defense from the pocket.
Quote: As for 4-3 and 3-4, that’s how I can understand defenses; I’m a young guy who prefers old-school when it comes to defense by rushing four or five and sending everyone else back into coverage, not having the rushers play contain and give the quarterback enough time to pick apart the defense from the pocket.
Hey Angel Eyes I was not trying to knock your OP. I grew up watching the Giants D in 3-4 with LT, Carson, Banks and Reasons causing mayhem in the NFL and so I respect to the initiative to pencil guys in as starters at the traditional positions. However most teams back then had 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 FB and 1RB as their base offense and few ran 3 WR sets outside of SF or Washington on consistent basis and the RBs, FBs and TEs were all slower than your average LB. 3 yards and a cloud of dust on 1st and 2nd down was pretty much expected. My general point was that the Giants need to match strength against strength based on their opponent in a given week.
Looking at the schedule they will be up against some high powered offenses that run 11 all day long with different looks to confuse defenses and I think the "base" Giants D line up would have at least 5 DBs regardless of opponent. Whether they are CB or S is kind of irrelevant b/c it depends on the down, distance and game time situation (1st quarter v. 4th quarter). Looking at the evolution of the college defenses I could easily see Giants running hybrid 3-3-5 or 2-3-6 depending on the down/distance more than the 4-2-5 nickel.
My main gripe about "draft experts" is that they seem to try and plug "holes" for every team based on traditional team roster/scheme concepts like 3-4 and 4-3. According to the "experts" the Giants need an ER b/c they don't see anyone on the roster that has had 10 sacks in the previous year. That is just outdated thinking. The main goal for the Defense is to stop the other team from scoring and to get the ball back as soon as possible to win time of possession, not just have a "complete" team at every position. The Giants D accomplished the first goal pretty well last year despite not having a true ER, but they still had trouble getting off the field on 3rd and long which meant the Giants lost time of possession more often than not.
The Giants need play makers on both sides of the ball. If they draft a guy like Parsons at 11 then it should be due to the fact the Giants think he can make plays in their scheme and not just to fit him in a slot on a white board.
Quote:
In comment 15225257 kdog77 said:
Quote: As for 4-3 and 3-4, that’s how I can understand defenses; I’m a young guy who prefers old-school when it comes to defense by rushing four or five and sending everyone else back into coverage, not having the rushers play contain and give the quarterback enough time to pick apart the defense from the pocket.
Hey Angel Eyes I was not trying to knock your OP. I grew up watching the Giants D in 3-4 with LT, Carson, Banks and Reasons causing mayhem in the NFL and so I respect to the initiative to pencil guys in as starters at the traditional positions. However most teams back then had 2 WR, 1 TE, 1 FB and 1RB as their base offense and few ran 3 WR sets outside of SF or Washington on consistent basis and the RBs, FBs and TEs were all slower than your average LB. 3 yards and a cloud of dust on 1st and 2nd down was pretty much expected. My general point was that the Giants need to match strength against strength based on their opponent in a given week.
Looking at the schedule they will be up against some high powered offenses that run 11 all day long with different looks to confuse defenses and I think the "base" Giants D line up would have at least 5 DBs regardless of opponent. Whether they are CB or S is kind of irrelevant b/c it depends on the down, distance and game time situation (1st quarter v. 4th quarter). Looking at the evolution of the college defenses I could easily see Giants running hybrid 3-3-5 or 2-3-6 depending on the down/distance more than the 4-2-5 nickel.
My main gripe about "draft experts" is that they seem to try and plug "holes" for every team based on traditional team roster/scheme concepts like 3-4 and 4-3. According to the "experts" the Giants need an ER b/c they don't see anyone on the roster that has had 10 sacks in the previous year. That is just outdated thinking. The main goal for the Defense is to stop the other team from scoring and to get the ball back as soon as possible to win time of possession, not just have a "complete" team at every position. The Giants D accomplished the first goal pretty well last year despite not having a true ER, but they still had trouble getting off the field on 3rd and long which meant the Giants lost time of possession more often than not.
The Giants need play makers on both sides of the ball. If they draft a guy like Parsons at 11 then it should be due to the fact the Giants think he can make plays in their scheme and not just to fit him in a slot on a white board.
I actually made a 3-3-5 defense before the Giants signed Danny Shelton and Adoree Jackson; the posters on the site thought it was soft against the run.
My other feeling is that there’s less pressure on the defensive backs if there’s two or more guys pressuring the quarterback; those defensive backs can’t keep up with the receivers forever if the rushers are playing contain. Leonard Williams is a fine interior rusher, but he’s only one man and if he isn’t going after the quarterback with some help, that quarterback is sitting pretty, making 12-20 yards a pass.
3-3-5 defense is in the OP. - ( New Window )
Not counting on Carter, but Ximines, Anderson, Odenigbo, Trent Harris, and Niko Lalos are all in the mix along with Basham if this came true. Parsons might figure into the mix on the outside as well in some packages.
Personally, I feel that since they can't really set the edge effectively Coughlin should be moved inside and Brown should be a coverage LB in the middle like a poor man's Isaiah Simmons.
I’ll be honest, they were the first names I thought of; Brown seems to be a good SAM and Coughlin has uses as a spy as shown in the Seattle game and Sy had good impressions for them; I don’t have much of an opinion on Anderson, still waiting on Ximines, I thought Harris was cut, and I’d need more games to evaluate Lalos; he was only in 6 games last year. Plus, Odenigbo is in the nickel defense depicted in the OP. Maybe if we draft Basham, we put any combo of Leonard Williams, Basham, Lalos, Odenigbo, and Ximines as part of the “NASCAR 4DE” package?