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downfield blocking and Davonta Smith

jcp56 : 4/18/2021 9:39 pm
I rarely watch college, but I understand that DS's weight make him an extreme outlier.

The one potential issue that I never see discussed is the importance of downfield blocking for our all-world (assuming he recovers fully) RB, who should be getting a lot of touches. We love Sterling Shepard's downfield blocks that can often spring a good run into a chunk play, but I wonder about DS's ability to block. (I understand that this is towards the end of qualities that you look for in a WR, but still.)
Smith is listed as being high-effort in blocking,  
Angel Eyes : 4/18/2021 9:44 pm : link
But not strong at the point of attack.
Effort and technique is what is required  
blueblood : 4/18/2021 10:07 pm : link
it amazes me that people think that 5-10 lbs spread across your entire body make a HUGE difference in blocking.
I raised this issue before about Smith.  
BigBlueNH : 4/18/2021 10:55 pm : link
I don't see how anyone his size can be an effective blocker in the run game. With SB, and with the team clearly committed to establishing an effective running game, I really don't see us taking him at 11.
Blocking in space...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/18/2021 10:57 pm : link
... has a hell of a lot more to do with want to and what you do with your feet than it does with your strength your weight your height or any other attribute.
Is he blocking a CB or an LB/DL?  
kdog77 : 4/18/2021 11:06 pm : link
Smith looks like a slot receiver and if he is going to be called on to block anyone it will probably be the slot nickel CB who is not going to be that much bigger than him.

The number one priority for a WR is catching the ball, not blocking. Evan Engram can't block or catch, but he is still on the team. I would rather have a WR that can do one of those things well than EE every day of the week and 5 times on Sunday.
Who cares?  
AcesUp : 4/18/2021 11:12 pm : link
If blocking is anymore than a footnote when evaluating a WR then your process is broken.
He isn't easy to cover  
uconngiant : 4/18/2021 11:28 pm : link
So his blocking may be subpar but than again that is like saying Pitts should be a inline blocker
I loved the way Plax used to level DB's down field, but . . . .  
TC : 4/18/2021 11:49 pm : link
I wouldn't give it another thought if the Giants could come up with Smith. Smith is skinny, but all muscle, and willing as hell. He'll do what he can do.

I don't see Smith as a slot, though I suspect they'll move him around to exploit mismatches. He's a #1 who'll compete with Golladay from the start.

But I think it's academic unless the Giants trade up. He's unlikely to fall out of the top 10, and may well go in the top 5.

He's not frail. His build and stride reminds me a lot of a WR from 40 years ago when DB's would still routinely clothes-line WR's, batter them with elbows, and do just about anything short of beating them with baseball bats. AH, the good old days!

Anyway, that kid had a pretty good career. They used to call him Bambi.

Run Bambi, run! - ( New Window )
Smith is pretty high effort as a blocker  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 4/18/2021 11:54 pm : link
Which is half the battle. Obviously he isn’t going to look like Plax or Hines Ward due to his limited size, but he will be ok at it in the pros imo.
A WR doesn't have to knock guys  
Bill in UT : 4/19/2021 12:52 am : link
on their asses, he just has to get in their way at the right time
I’ve watched  
Svengali : 4/19/2021 1:19 am : link
Him in collage a bunch of times and while I’m no expert, the guy is a stud WR. I think we’re really nitpicking now. We’d be lucky to have him.
as long  
broadbandz : 4/19/2021 2:26 am : link
as their is high effort thats all you can ask from a WR
RE: Who cares?  
Grizz99 : 4/19/2021 4:21 am : link
In comment 15225302 AcesUp said:
Quote:
If blocking is anymore than a footnote when evaluating a WR then your process is broken.


"who cares", well I would think anyone with a brain. No, it's not critical but I'll always believe that Plax helped Tiki's game and certainly it's a factor.
Likely 170 lbs is very generous The rumor was the kid didn't participate in the pro day because he was under 170. And it's spread over a relatively tall frame, borne on spindly and maybe fragile legs.
It's not just the effectiveness, it's the consequences. 170 (plus or minus) is going to suffer more damages that a more robust 190 with some cushioning.
Then there's the question of jamming Smith. Some of his tape (I'm told, I haven't seen it) shows college CB's jamming him effectively and later bumping him out of bounds.
Will he have to be put in motion on each play to get him downfield and in the flow?
Don't know the answers but even while i see the brilliance there is a potential downside. No idea how to evaluate it all, no idea if he should be the pick or not.
There was a thread lower down about Jaycee Horn  
Giant John : 4/19/2021 4:40 am : link
Devonte had no problem getting off the line against him that I saw.
It’s a fair question  
BillT : 4/19/2021 6:27 am : link
But given his prodigious talent as a WR one that won’t matter much if they get a chance to draft him.
this is the time  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 4/19/2021 7:28 am : link
when the great players get picked apart

and the not so great players that run a great 40 get elevated

the draft can't happen soon enough
For the love of God,  
section125 : 4/19/2021 7:50 am : link
all a WR has to do is momentarily get in the way of a DB to be effective. Shepard is great at it. Any player can block. It is all about wanting to do it. I doubt he has to block interior lineman. He may get in front of a LB, down field.

What you are all missing is that he is already strong, 170 lbs or not. He's never going to be Plax strong, but does not need to be. You don't do what he did in the SEC and not be strong.
I don’t think blocking would stop Gettleman from taking Smith at #11  
Metnut : 4/19/2021 9:23 am : link
After all, he took an RB at #2 who isn’t good at pass blocking.
this whole weight thing with Smith  
djm : 4/19/2021 11:17 am : link
might be the most ridiculous pre draft horseshit narrative being parroted from fans and media members that I have ever seen. And that is saying something.

We are literally talking 5-10 lbs here. AND! there are players that have in fact played at Smith's height and weight and played at an extremely high level.

When you watch this guy play, his weight looks pretty normal to me. And it does to you too..but since you now KNOW his weight, you're worried? Give me a break.
RE: RE: Who cares?  
AcesUp : 4/19/2021 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15225340 Grizz99 said:
Quote:
In comment 15225302 AcesUp said:


Quote:


If blocking is anymore than a footnote when evaluating a WR then your process is broken.



"who cares", well I would think anyone with a brain. No, it's not critical but I'll always believe that Plax helped Tiki's game and certainly it's a factor.
Likely 170 lbs is very generous The rumor was the kid didn't participate in the pro day because he was under 170. And it's spread over a relatively tall frame, borne on spindly and maybe fragile legs.
It's not just the effectiveness, it's the consequences. 170 (plus or minus) is going to suffer more damages that a more robust 190 with some cushioning.
Then there's the question of jamming Smith. Some of his tape (I'm told, I haven't seen it) shows college CB's jamming him effectively and later bumping him out of bounds.
Will he have to be put in motion on each play to get him downfield and in the flow?
Don't know the answers but even while i see the brilliance there is a potential downside. No idea how to evaluate it all, no idea if he should be the pick or not.


This is a forest through the trees thing. Use that big brain of yours to figure out how often in a game that his efficiency as a blocker will truly impact a play and how many yards that inefficiency costs the Giants. Then watch him get chunk yards in the passing game. WRs are paid to get open and catch the football, great blocking WRs don't get big NFL contracts if they can't do the former. They can be the best blocking WR in the league and if they aren't getting yards through the air, they're out of the league. That is what matters.

And the thread was about his downfield blocking, not about getting off the jam. If you want to litigate that, I'd follow the previous posters advice and watch him against Horn. Horn is probably the best press man corner in the draft and he couldn't get his hands on him.

Smith isn't even my preference at 11, I'm on board with Slater. He's not even my preference between the Bama WRs, I would go Slater. But he'd make a fine pick and nitpicking how a WR blocks downfield is peak mid-April discussion.
*Waddle  
AcesUp : 4/19/2021 12:23 pm : link
.
Aces  
JerseyCityJoe : 4/19/2021 2:14 pm : link
Great response.
RE: RE: RE: Who cares?  
allstarjim : 4/19/2021 4:46 pm : link
In comment 15225834 AcesUp said:
Quote:
In comment 15225340 Grizz99 said:


Quote:


In comment 15225302 AcesUp said:


Quote:


If blocking is anymore than a footnote when evaluating a WR then your process is broken.



"who cares", well I would think anyone with a brain. No, it's not critical but I'll always believe that Plax helped Tiki's game and certainly it's a factor.
Likely 170 lbs is very generous The rumor was the kid didn't participate in the pro day because he was under 170. And it's spread over a relatively tall frame, borne on spindly and maybe fragile legs.
It's not just the effectiveness, it's the consequences. 170 (plus or minus) is going to suffer more damages that a more robust 190 with some cushioning.
Then there's the question of jamming Smith. Some of his tape (I'm told, I haven't seen it) shows college CB's jamming him effectively and later bumping him out of bounds.
Will he have to be put in motion on each play to get him downfield and in the flow?
Don't know the answers but even while i see the brilliance there is a potential downside. No idea how to evaluate it all, no idea if he should be the pick or not.



This is a forest through the trees thing. Use that big brain of yours to figure out how often in a game that his efficiency as a blocker will truly impact a play and how many yards that inefficiency costs the Giants. Then watch him get chunk yards in the passing game. WRs are paid to get open and catch the football, great blocking WRs don't get big NFL contracts if they can't do the former. They can be the best blocking WR in the league and if they aren't getting yards through the air, they're out of the league. That is what matters.

And the thread was about his downfield blocking, not about getting off the jam. If you want to litigate that, I'd follow the previous posters advice and watch him against Horn. Horn is probably the best press man corner in the draft and he couldn't get his hands on him.

Smith isn't even my preference at 11, I'm on board with Slater. He's not even my preference between the Bama WRs, I would go Slater. But he'd make a fine pick and nitpicking how a WR blocks downfield is peak mid-April discussion.


Gotta agree with this. I prefer Waddle to Slater, though, but everything else I'm 100% with you on.
Good job  
Grizz99 : 4/20/2021 4:42 am : link
Took a post that I thought was abrasive and empty and put sense into it. Still disagree (though respectfully this time).
Down field blocking does matter and I don't think he can be good at it.
More than one "expert" feels that he will be manhandled by the NFL cornerback and that they will have to keep him in motion to free him up from jams at the LOS. You want to completely discount that based on one game that you saw???
I don't know that any of them are true, don't know that he's not the natural and best pick. But they are fair negatives in discussing the whole package.
He's an outlier, has there ever been anyone in the modern game at 6-1 who weighed 167 and made it big at any position other than kicking?
How can you say that's not a factor - even if you want to say it shouldn't be the determining factor.
i think there's only one 'clean" player in the draft and that's Sewell and he didn't play last year (along with Chase arguably the other "almost clean" draftee) so maybe even he isn't completely clean.
The negatives that every player carries are fair discussion material in the evaluation process.
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