Assumptions: Parsons has passed the JJ litmus test and Davonta Smith is gone.
Disclaimer: As I’ve said ad nauseam, Whomever Judge decides to pick at 11, I’m all in with
So with that all said, let’s say it’s between Waddle, Parsons, Slater and one of the Edges.
Despite some limitations I’ve been reading about, I’m NOW hoping the pick is Parsons..He sounds like one of a kind player, who can be used by Graham in varying scenarios. I believe he makes an already good D, much better.
JJ saw first hand how well Belichick’s Ds have done relying mainly on his Interior D and the Secondary and quite versatile Linebacking. .Of course the genius of BB cannot be underscored enough. Still, we seemed to follow BB’s template last year with pretty good results once the players acclimated to Graham. Now we’ve added Jackson at corner and have a healthy McKinney at S..
Waddle, on paper would be a great add, but I’m convinced with a healthy Barkley (I don’t believe it’s a big IF, but that’s just an opinion) the addition of Rudolph and of course Golladay, we have armed DJ with nice receiving options. Too, many have mentioned here and in the media, that we can fortify the receiving corps in rounds 2 and 3, perhaps even later.
As to Slater, I’d be perfectly fine with what I’ve read he brings to the long term table, but i’ve also read/learned the 2nd and 3rd rounds can be tapped for good OL that could upgrade what we have now. It SEEMS, JJ is “set” on Peart at ORT, at least set in the ‘his job to lose’ mindset. Again, that’s what it seems from afar.
Since I only know what I’ve read and learned on here, which is my only basis for my collegiate preference, I’d love your ALMOST final opinions on this.
Again, as I mentioned in the thread title, I’m assuming the BPAs are in the same tier and close to one another in value according to the Giants..
What say you?
Quote:
on the Edge. It's often easier for an athlete to be taught and absorb over playing inside, especially if he play contain with discipline and pointed downhill at the QB. Parsons has the physical package, and here's hoping him playing inside hid some of his potential. Nothing more multiple than a LB who can play inside and outside in multiple fronts.
Good thoughts, Jon. As a counter, which I cannot validate or dispute, a poster on that Sunday or another thread viewed footage of Parsons inside and said most of his sacks and TFL were blitzing through big holes in the opponent's OLs created by PSU's DL schemes. This poster's point was that it was less Parsons' ability than scheme that freed him to wreak havoc. fwiw. I've seen no film so can't comment. But I bet Graham/Judge have.
Ray Lewis (on the field) was a HOFer. Yet, he was given freedom to roam and wreak havoc because Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa kept him clean for years..Even great players oft times need help to wreak the havoc, imo
Quote:
on the Edge. It's often easier for an athlete to be taught and absorb over playing inside, especially if he play contain with discipline and pointed downhill at the QB. Parsons has the physical package, and here's hoping him playing inside hid some of his potential. Nothing more multiple than a LB who can play inside and outside in multiple fronts.
100% agree. This is why I feel that with Coach Spencer knowing Parsons and having recruited him it makes me think if he is there at 11 he is the pick. You have to take all things into consideration. If we talk about character you must talk about talent, scheme fit, versatility, measurables,athletic ability, pro day numbers and most important the game video.
I am as guilty of trying to put players in a box and saying they are a MLB or a WLB or a SLB etc. The reality is the NFL has changed and NY Giant runs a multiple front 3-4 Hybrid defense which will be in Nickel 50 percent of the game. 4 LB can be on the field all the time in base 3-4 alignment or nickel. It is not until the dime package comes in that you have only 1 ILB on the field. Parsons is a 3 down LB regardless of where he lines up.
Great point. And this is precisely the problem by sticking the "ILB" label on him. Parsons is a defensive playmaker and will play a key role in any Graham personnel scheme on every down.
You keep repeating the same mantra re: talent needs time, and add little other substance to your arguments. Why do you think some posters are constantly trying to kick the shit of you at a personal level? (myself not included)
Re: 2020, my pick was Herbert. Knowing the Giants weren't going to pick a QB, clearly, my pick was Okudah. I'd still take either one over Thomas. The good news, he's got time to prove me wrong, lol.
Quote:
In comment 15225905 JonC said:
Quote:
on the Edge. It's often easier for an athlete to be taught and absorb over playing inside, especially if he play contain with discipline and pointed downhill at the QB. Parsons has the physical package, and here's hoping him playing inside hid some of his potential. Nothing more multiple than a LB who can play inside and outside in multiple fronts.
Good thoughts, Jon. As a counter, which I cannot validate or dispute, a poster on that Sunday or another thread viewed footage of Parsons inside and said most of his sacks and TFL were blitzing through big holes in the opponent's OLs created by PSU's DL schemes. This poster's point was that it was less Parsons' ability than scheme that freed him to wreak havoc. fwiw. I've seen no film so can't comment. But I bet Graham/Judge have.
Ray Lewis (on the field) was a HOFer. Yet, he was given freedom to roam and wreak havoc because Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa kept him clean for years..Even great players oft times need help to wreak the havoc, imo
Very true. And if Parsons is not available at eleven, the guy who most reminds me of Ray Lewis this year is Nick Bolton, ILB Missouri. Bolton may still be there in the second round because he is a bit undersized, but this kid flies to the ball, is a ferocious tackler and has great burst and speed at the point of attack. He and Martinez would be a tackling tandem for the ages!
Quote:
In comment 15225905 JonC said:
Quote:
on the Edge. It's often easier for an athlete to be taught and absorb over playing inside, especially if he play contain with discipline and pointed downhill at the QB. Parsons has the physical package, and here's hoping him playing inside hid some of his potential. Nothing more multiple than a LB who can play inside and outside in multiple fronts.
Good thoughts, Jon. As a counter, which I cannot validate or dispute, a poster on that Sunday or another thread viewed footage of Parsons inside and said most of his sacks and TFL were blitzing through big holes in the opponent's OLs created by PSU's DL schemes. This poster's point was that it was less Parsons' ability than scheme that freed him to wreak havoc. fwiw. I've seen no film so can't comment. But I bet Graham/Judge have.
Ray Lewis (on the field) was a HOFer. Yet, he was given freedom to roam and wreak havoc because Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa kept him clean for years..Even great players oft times need help to wreak the havoc, imo
This is quite true. I remember reading about this conversation between Rams defensive coach Tom Caitlin and a coach of the Baltimore Colts circa 1970. Caitlin asked the Colts coach for analysis on players since they were no longer division rivals (the Colts were moving to the AFC). The Colts coach replied that they could have run the ball at Deacon Jones all the time but Merlin Olsen would be covering the running plays and sucker plays so that Jones could sack the quarterback.
It is certainly within the realm of possibility, based on the history of the NFL, that these players from 2019 and 2020 need more than 2 years to develop. I'm talking about rounds 1-3. Baker was a nightmare obviously. Now, you need to help the growth of these picks with good coaching and good free agents moves, which in 2018 and 2019, the Giants might have been the worst in the league at, on both accounts.
It is not a coincidence that once Shurmur was gone, drafting, free agency, and players all of a sudden seemed better.
My point is: posters can't just continue to ignore the fact that the very first year of DG's tenure is not unlike every single other 1st year of a new GM's tenure that we've seen with rebuilds, it is mostly patchwork stuff, trying to get rid of players, taking on dead money, and trying to draft well and build up the pipeline.
It is certainly within the realm of possibility, based on the history of the NFL, that these players from 2019 and 2020 need more than 2 years to develop. I'm talking about rounds 1-3. Baker was a nightmare obviously. Now, you need to help the growth of these picks with good coaching and good free agents moves, which in 2018 and 2019, the Giants might have been the worst in the league at, on both accounts.
It is not a coincidence that once Shurmur was gone, drafting, free agency, and players all of a sudden seemed better.
My point is: posters can't just continue to ignore the fact that the very first year of DG's tenure is not unlike every single other 1st year of a new GM's tenure that we've seen with rebuilds, it is mostly patchwork stuff, trying to get rid of players, taking on dead money, and trying to draft well and build up the pipeline.
On point.
Thomas had a better rookie season than Okudah, and he's a left tackle.
Thomas had a better rookie season than Okudah, and he's a left tackle.
Imagine what Thomas could have done on two good ankles...
Quote:
at #11 is a force pick. Or maybe even a panic pick.
Because we've seen it before with DG - he will hit the panic button on draft day.
Define panic. Barkley was not a panic pick; neither was Jones, nor Lawrence, nor Thomas. They were who he wanted at the spot he thought was appropriate. I would bet money that they were delivered to the commissioner in a cold, calm voice.
Jones was a classic panic pick. They needed a QB and Gettleman thought that if he didn't take Jones at #6 then two other teams would take him at #17.
Quote:
In comment 15225765 bw in dc said:
Quote:
at #11 is a force pick. Or maybe even a panic pick.
Because we've seen it before with DG - he will hit the panic button on draft day.
Define panic. Barkley was not a panic pick; neither was Jones, nor Lawrence, nor Thomas. They were who he wanted at the spot he thought was appropriate. I would bet money that they were delivered to the commissioner in a cold, calm voice.
Jones was a classic panic pick. They needed a QB and Gettleman thought that if he didn't take Jones at #6 then two other teams would take him at #17.
So? If you were high on a player and felt two other suitors might grab him before 17, you wouldn’t pull the trigger? Call it whatever you want. I ascribe to Polian’s and Brandt’s “credo,” that if you have a strong conviction on a guy YOU TAKE HIM WHEN YOU CAN.
Quote:
In comment 15225765 bw in dc said:
Quote:
at #11 is a force pick. Or maybe even a panic pick.
Because we've seen it before with DG - he will hit the panic button on draft day.
Define panic. Barkley was not a panic pick; neither was Jones, nor Lawrence, nor Thomas. They were who he wanted at the spot he thought was appropriate. I would bet money that they were delivered to the commissioner in a cold, calm voice.
Jones was a classic panic pick. They needed a QB and Gettleman thought that if he didn't take Jones at #6 then two other teams would take him at #17.
I think that there are enough reports to make DG's hypothesis credible. In that case, Jones went right where he should have gone.
Thomas had a better rookie season than Okudah, and he's a left tackle.
Thomas settled down nicely as the year progressed. Thought he played like a rookie LT would and finished the year well.
Isn't he just the type of player we want on this roster going forward?
Jones was a classic panic pick. They needed a QB and Gettleman thought that if he didn't take Jones at #6 then two other teams would take him at #17.
So? If you were high on a player and felt two other suitors might grab him before 17, you wouldn’t pull the trigger? Call it whatever you want. I ascribe to Polian’s and Brandt’s “credo,” that if you have a strong conviction on a guy YOU TAKE HIM WHEN YOU CAN.
That's a loaded question because I never thought Jones was first round talent. And I have a hard time believing Jones was 6th on their board.
Further, I have never bought the idea of the other "two mystery teams theory". No need to relitigate this, but I always viewed that as an excuse to justify the Jones selection because the pick had a fair amount of blowback.
Quote:
In comment 15225782 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15225765 bw in dc said:
Quote:
at #11 is a force pick. Or maybe even a panic pick.
Because we've seen it before with DG - he will hit the panic button on draft day.
Define panic. Barkley was not a panic pick; neither was Jones, nor Lawrence, nor Thomas. They were who he wanted at the spot he thought was appropriate. I would bet money that they were delivered to the commissioner in a cold, calm voice.
Jones was a classic panic pick. They needed a QB and Gettleman thought that if he didn't take Jones at #6 then two other teams would take him at #17.
I think that there are enough reports to make DG's hypothesis credible. In that case, Jones went right where he should have gone.
Would suggest its the reverse. As discussed plenty of times before (and not interested in doing so again), reports do not point to those teams picking Jones before #17.
Quote:
In comment 15226030 bw in dc said:
Jones was a classic panic pick. They needed a QB and Gettleman thought that if he didn't take Jones at #6 then two other teams would take him at #17.
So? If you were high on a player and felt two other suitors might grab him before 17, you wouldn’t pull the trigger? Call it whatever you want. I ascribe to Polian’s and Brandt’s “credo,” that if you have a strong conviction on a guy YOU TAKE HIM WHEN YOU CAN.
That's a loaded question because I never thought Jones was first round talent. And I have a hard time believing Jones was 6th on their board.
Further, I have never bought the idea of the other "two mystery teams theory". No need to relitigate this, but I always viewed that as an excuse to justify the Jones selection because the pick had a fair amount of blowback.
I didn’t ask you about Jones per se, I asked you if you had a conviction on a player, albeit an unpopular one and you had decent intel that said he’d probably be gone by your 2nd pick (17) in the first round, would you pull the trigger? Not loaded at all..Since you play GM a lot, a simple answer would suffice and be welcomed.
It is certainly within the realm of possibility, based on the history of the NFL, that these players from 2019 and 2020 need more than 2 years to develop. I'm talking about rounds 1-3. Baker was a nightmare obviously. Now, you need to help the growth of these picks with good coaching and good free agents moves, which in 2018 and 2019, the Giants might have been the worst in the league at, on both accounts.
It is not a coincidence that once Shurmur was gone, drafting, free agency, and players all of a sudden seemed better.
My point is: posters can't just continue to ignore the fact that the very first year of DG's tenure is not unlike every single other 1st year of a new GM's tenure that we've seen with rebuilds, it is mostly patchwork stuff, trying to get rid of players, taking on dead money, and trying to draft well and build up the pipeline.
The irony is you haven't posted anything above I haven't posted a hundred times before. I don't know how you've missed it, you seem to only remember what doesn't agree with your take. I can also look at on field performance and tell you who is damned disappointing, in any draft year you prefer, and at the same time toss off the "time will tell" one liner as well. Remember, I also hear stuff in the background and try to sprinkle it in addition to what I see on gamedays as to who is struggling, acting a fool behind the scenes, and who is making a positive contribution.
I added plenty on Okudah a year ago, you're free to go find it. With my career and two year at old, I simply cannot invest the extra time and energy there. It's out there. As for his 2020 season, he struggled, no ifs ands or buts. He will also benefit when their coaching staff gets their act together and gives him a better opportunity to learn and prepare like a professional. Incomplete/D grade. For every Okudah that is wrong out of the chute, I give plenty of accurate perspective too. I thought Thomas improved and showed a good attitude, in addition to playing injured. Speaks well of him. He still showed some bad habits from college, that shit has got to get fixed.
If I see you post substance, I will comment accordingly. It's entirely possible I have not seen it all. I have seen some, interspersed with posters attacking you personally for not posting substance.
Don't lump me in with those who don't listen to you.
Ray Lewis (on the field) was a HOFer. Yet, he was given freedom to roam and wreak havoc because Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa kept him clean for years..Even great players oft times need help to wreak the havoc, imo
This is true but that freedom comes with the responsibility to make gap assignment calls before being free.
What I mean is, even Ray Lewis had a gap assignment on each play. If he decided that, pre-snap, he saw something that he wanted to exploit, he would have to make line/blitz calls to cover what he was going to be vacating. Granted, those things are fluid as many of the DTs likely have a two-way go, the "free backer" still needs to make sure he's not leaving a huge void in the front 7.
Can Parsons do this as a Rookie...who knows...
...but it's something that I'd like to see play out.
Quote:
Ray Lewis (on the field) was a HOFer. Yet, he was given freedom to roam and wreak havoc because Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa kept him clean for years..Even great players oft times need help to wreak the havoc, imo
This is true but that freedom comes with the responsibility to make gap assignment calls before being free.
What I mean is, even Ray Lewis had a gap assignment on each play. If he decided that, pre-snap, he saw something that he wanted to exploit, he would have to make line/blitz calls to cover what he was going to be vacating. Granted, those things are fluid as many of the DTs likely have a two-way go, the "free backer" still needs to make sure he's not leaving a huge void in the front 7.
Can Parsons do this as a Rookie...who knows...
...but it's something that I'd like to see play out.
Agree with points made
I'm trying to preach patience with the *new* Giants, not the DG picks the player and Shurmur takes it from there Giants
I'm trying to preach patience with the *new* Giants, not the DG picks the player and Shurmur takes it from there Giants
...I kid~
Reading the comments on BBI can be a bit like reading the comments on a FB post with a MAGA theme.
***FOR ENTERTAINMENT PURPOSES ONLY***
I'm trying to preach patience with the *new* Giants, not the DG picks the player and Shurmur takes it from there Giants
All you can do is try to lead a horse to water ... and then walk away.
I’m good with Jones, the real issue is did the Giants try to call Jacksonville and offer 17 and their 2nd round pick to move up to 7? Because the best thing that could have happened is make that trade, get Josh Allen and Jones. We wouldn’t have Dex and we already don’t have Baker.
Quote:
They had to pick him at 6. You do not wait 11 picks from 6-17 to draft your next franchise QB. If the Giants were willing to wait, Jones was not the guy. If they were drafting a QB in 2019 it was always going to be at 6. Those complaining that we should have waited until 17 just don't get it and probably never will.
I’m good with Jones, the real issue is did the Giants try to call Jacksonville and offer 17 and their 2nd round pick to move up to 7? Because the best thing that could have happened is make that trade, get Josh Allen and Jones. We wouldn’t have Dex and we already don’t have Baker.
Giants tried to move back up to take Josh Allen. Not sure they were calling JAX though. But JAX announced the pick before they could get any deal done.
Not certain why King would go fictitious after the fact if he wanted to ever be invited into anybody else's war room. And nobody said it was wrong to take Jones, just whether another team would have grabbed him in between 6 & 17.
I'm trying to preach patience with the *new* Giants, not the DG picks the player and Shurmur takes it from there Giants
Thomas was bad. He was horrendous early and ended up ok by the end of the year. He was the 3rd best OT of the top 4, potentially the worst. You’re chalking that up as a win? He still has a lot to prove.
Nothing is set in stone but the DG drafts to date have been mediocre at best. A lot of question marks/TBD’s but the overall team building strategy has been trash.
Why would anyone NOT believe Peter King? He's only a guy that been covering the league for nearly 35 years and is as dialed in as anybody. And King isn't a guy looking for clicks with tantalizing headlines and content.
Of course, if King did say Denver was hot for Jones I'm 100% sure everyone would cite him as totally credible.
JFC.
Quote:
believing anything Peter King says or believing that the Broncos belief in Locke somehow makes it wrong for the Giants to take Jones.
Why would anyone NOT believe Peter King? He's only a guy that been covering the league for nearly 35 years and is as dialed in as anybody. And King isn't a guy looking for clicks with tantalizing headlines and content.
Of course, if King did say Denver was hot for Jones I'm 100% sure everyone would cite him as totally credible.
JFC.
And you would say he was full of shit.
Instead, I would question Elway's QB judgment... ;)
I think King's full of it AND Elway's judgement is poor.
Their guy, by most accounts, was selected and their contingency plan was "Ereck Flowers."
Their guy, by most accounts, was selected and their contingency plan was "Ereck Flowers."
Denver panicked by taking Locke in the second round? And traded up to go do so when they saw he was still available? Makes no sense.
Suggest read the King article on Elway and Locke if want the facts on what went down.
Not just slides, but there also always seems to be one team that picks someone totally out of left field that doesn't belong among the top picks at all (a team thinking it's smarter than everyone else) and that pushes a quality player down.
I just hope that out of left field team this year isn't us.
Their guy, by most accounts, was selected and their contingency plan was "Ereck Flowers."
chicks is right. You don't seem to understand the circumstances around Denver acquiring Lock. Denver traded from #52 to #42 to grab Lock in the second round. And gave up a 4th and a 6th. That's a panic?
Quote:
...Locke is a perfect example of a panic pick.
Their guy, by most accounts, was selected and their contingency plan was "Ereck Flowers."
chicks is right. You don't seem to understand the circumstances around Denver acquiring Lock. Denver traded from #52 to #42 to grab Lock in the second round. And gave up a 4th and a 6th. That's a panic?
Yeah, doesn't make any sense. He is not understanding the situation nor how Denver moved around.