Assumptions: Parsons has passed the JJ litmus test and Davonta Smith is gone.
Disclaimer: As I’ve said ad nauseam, Whomever Judge decides to pick at 11, I’m all in with
So with that all said, let’s say it’s between Waddle, Parsons, Slater and one of the Edges.
Despite some limitations I’ve been reading about, I’m NOW hoping the pick is Parsons..He sounds like one of a kind player, who can be used by Graham in varying scenarios. I believe he makes an already good D, much better.
JJ saw first hand how well Belichick’s Ds have done relying mainly on his Interior D and the Secondary and quite versatile Linebacking. .Of course the genius of BB cannot be underscored enough. Still, we seemed to follow BB’s template last year with pretty good results once the players acclimated to Graham. Now we’ve added Jackson at corner and have a healthy McKinney at S..
Waddle, on paper would be a great add, but I’m convinced with a healthy Barkley (I don’t believe it’s a big IF, but that’s just an opinion) the addition of Rudolph and of course Golladay, we have armed DJ with nice receiving options. Too, many have mentioned here and in the media, that we can fortify the receiving corps in rounds 2 and 3, perhaps even later.
As to Slater, I’d be perfectly fine with what I’ve read he brings to the long term table, but i’ve also read/learned the 2nd and 3rd rounds can be tapped for good OL that could upgrade what we have now. It SEEMS, JJ is “set” on Peart at ORT, at least set in the ‘his job to lose’ mindset. Again, that’s what it seems from afar.
Since I only know what I’ve read and learned on here, which is my only basis for my collegiate preference, I’d love your ALMOST final opinions on this.
Again, as I mentioned in the thread title, I’m assuming the BPAs are in the same tier and close to one another in value according to the Giants..
What say you?
That reminds me of a poem:
She offered her honor,
He honored her offer.
And all night long,
It was on 'er and off 'er.
Maybe not LTs...but the draft have great guards, RT, C on the 2nd.
I also believe Parsons can rush the passer better then most....so he is as multiple as they come...fit perfectly....can play inside....but for Giants...he is OLB
The draft appears to be deep with OL and WR. Drafting to the strength to me means finding good players at those positions in rounds 2-4. That is why we have scouts. Most GMs aren’t given credit for hitting on 1st round picks, they are supposed to lol. Finding a Snee, a Toomer, a Jacob’s, a Bradshaw, a Strahan or an Armstead is where the scouts prove their worth.
I’m all in a Parsons round one and let Graham figure out his starting position.
Maybe not LTs...but the draft have great guards, RT, C on the 2nd.
I also believe Parsons can rush the passer better then most....so he is as multiple as they come...fit perfectly....can play inside....but for Giants...he is OLB
George, you and me seems to be on the same page. I just hope Detroit and Denver leave Parsons on the board.
In reality, I think Waddle would be the choice(if the ankle is ok). Slater would help settle the interior line, but I think day 2 IOL will be there. There are choices at ER that would be better suited to drafting at the 15-20 slot eventhough Paye at #11 would be close to value. Phillips would be, but that medical history is too dicey to take him. If Horn is there at CB, it would give them a wild secondary even with what they have now.
Like you, whom ever JJ and DG decide on will be good by me.
Quote:
I was on him at first then off, now I'm back on. I trust Judge to make the right call. I wish we had an extra Day 2 pick though :-(
That reminds me of a poem:
She offered her honor,
He honored her offer.
And all night long,
It was on 'er and off 'er.
+1,000 lol!!!
The tiebreaker for me is the drop-off from Slater and a day 2 guard vs. Waddle and day 2 WR.
If we can get Dickerson or we feel really good about someone like Leatherwood then that is a pretty great consolation prize. Can we get Toney in the 2nd? Again, not too bad.
I think Waddle --> Toney is a greater drop-off than Slater -->Dickerson. So I go Waddle but Slater would be great too.
Dream scenario for me:
Jaylen Waddle
Joe Tryon
Trey Smith
Tommy Tremble
Quote:
I was on him at first then off, now I'm back on. I trust Judge to make the right call. I wish we had an extra Day 2 pick though :-(
That reminds me of a poem:
She offered her honor,
He honored her offer.
And all night long,
It was on 'er and off 'er.
There’s another version ...
She offered her honor, he honored her offer
And when he got on her, he wouldn’t get off her.
Could be and I’m fine with it, if that’s his core belief
p.s.--As for Parsons, since when is inside LB the team's biggest need?
With Spence....the Giants know Parsons....good or bad. So...if they do not draft him...it's because they feel it would be a bad mix....and if they do draft him...us "outsiders" should not be worried.
I am not opposed with an "overpay" trade down with a QB hungry team.....as the GA kid, who has all the intangibles that Judge would love or Oweh who might have the best athletic traits of anyone in draft.....with extra picks in 2nd which is absolutely stacked....would be great.
So I have high hopes for this draft
I have to admit that the concerns about Parsons that have come out have shaken my belief in him. But if Judge believes in him I'm in, and the thought of someone with his explosiveness mixed in with Martinez'es power, smarts and discipline is exciting.
Payne brings a different dimension of need as he is actually an edge rusher and we really could use a premium edge rusher.
You want to give Jones more tools, then Chase, Waddle and Smith are all the Bomb for different reasons and all will have immediate impact imo.
I'm not sold on the top Olineman, nor do I believe that any of them will have impact next season, so you might as well go lower in the draft to add another one to the mix, again all things being equal. For my money there are several excellent options in the second, third, and even the fourth round at guard and center; and while that's true of WR too, Chase Waddle and Smith are going to have top level impact right away.
But we are not really talking about the overall Giants need or even the overall Giants success here on BBI, are we? We are talking about the success or failure, with a predisposition towards failure, of Daniel Jones and, by extension, Dave Gettleman.
In that case, our overwhelming need is to provide as much support for Daniel Jones and thereby give him the least excuse for failure. I honestly think we should focus more on Waddle and then on another OL/RB/WR/TE as we move on down the draft. Give him an unassailable offensive cast and see what he can do, while punting shoring up the ILB and edge spots until the 2022 draft (and load up there). That way we will know if we can safely extend both Jones and Barkley.
I think that if we have a very strong offense, securing in knowing that Jones can lead them to points, we can win with the defense we had last year plus the FA additions. Even if we lose and clearly lose due to a poor and porous defense, then only Go Terps will blame Daniel Jones for the losses, while the fair and objective people will be comfortable in our QB going forward and can patch what will surely be only a few remaining z9defneseive) holes in the subsequent draft and (high capped) FA year.
Now, I'm pretty sure both would start immediately - Parson and Slater. That is a real plus. And I really like Parsons, so he's a very good consolation prize.
At the end of the day, we need to score significantly more points than we need to stop points. Slater for me.
With all of that said, from everything I have read and heard, this is an offensive draft. Offensive linemen and wide receivers are available all throughout the draft.
Parsons represents a real value at 11 to be a real presence on our defense as well as pressuring the quarterback. I worry about his coverage skills and character, but he has speed and can develop under graham and our coaches.
The DE class really is a boom or bust class and that really worries me. Whether its size, production or medical.
If parsons clears the character concerns, then he would be the best value and need at 11 imo
That said my guess is there is someone they really like who will be available who they have rated really high and that’s who they take. I have no idea who that is. Might be Parsons.
Parsons and some of the other defensive players (LB/Edge?CB) that will be available seem to be the players that you most likely won't find as the draft goes on. I think ultimately think Judge sees it this way and we end up with a D player.
p.s.--As for Parsons, since when is inside LB the team's biggest need?
Parsons is a playmaker. The team needs playmakers.
This is the best way to help manage the Cap long term. It is something that the Patriots have been excellent at. They have not picked many 1st OL and they have let a lot of good lineman go having a strong pipeline and development system. Giants should follow this strategy imo.
Improving the Oline means Jones has extra time to allow our WR to attempt to get separation.
Here, I think WR who can get separation makes a bigger difference than counting on WR who already can't get separation to get it with some extra time.
Getting a better secondary (e.g. Jackson and McKinney) gives a lesser edge rusher and other rushers more time to pressure the QB.
Getting a better edge rusher (and other rushers) relieves pressure on the secondary by giving the QB less time to throw.
Here it's probably a wash, although I would lean towards the secondary making more of a difference given the ever-increasing mobility of QB's to evade the rush.
All in all, I continue to believe that the unicorn WR (which is *only* Smith and Waddle) make the biggest impact on this team's ability to win more games.
I'm a big fan of finding OL gems later in the draft. I'm hoping for best OG avail in 3rd rd this yr.
And assuming Parsons passed the character test, I'm good with him in rd 1 and best avail WR in rd 2.
My guess is if they are thinking Parsons, they won't trade down and will happily take him at 11 (and some BBIers will scream - we could've traded down!).
With that said, value meeting need is probably Slater (or even more so Sewell if he somehow dropped). But a guy that may be on his own tier when we pick is Devonta Smith. Value may be too good to pass up. Sewell is the only OL on Devonta's tier in my estimation on their board.
Tiers being something like
Tier 1: Sewell, Pitts, Smith, Chase
Tier 2: Paye, Ojulari, Slater, Phillips, Vera Tucker
In that case its Parsons in a landslide for me. Potential game wrecker is exactly what the Giants need. I've thought all along after FA that they are going to swing for the fences and Parsons fits the bill.
Even with all the QBs that could go early, I expect Smith, Parsons, and Surtain to be gone. Think that brings us to Paye or trading down for Edge and an extra pick.
I think the only OL they would consider is Sewell if he somehow fell.
Unless I'm missing someone, he found two - Turner and Norwell - both in 2014. I'd hardly call that amazing.
Even with all the QBs that could go early, I expect Smith, Parsons, and Surtain to be gone. Think that brings us to Paye or trading down for Edge and an extra pick.
I think the only OL they would consider is Sewell if he somehow fell.
Are you personally down on Waddle or is that your feeling about the team? I think he would be a tremendous get, myself.
I don't want to speak for BB '56, but I believe his disclaimer is based on the Giants connections and inside knowledge of Penn St and Parsons. Of course it's possible that it's not smoke and he really is off their board because of that inside info. But for the sake of this thread, we're assuming that's not the case and that they're confident he's matured since the hazing incident, etc.
For who would make the biggest impact on the team, I'd say Waddle or Smith.
Personally I get BPA and I get need, but I've always thought the question should really be "who will improve my team the most if I draft them?" For that its the WRs.
Even with all the QBs that could go early, I expect Smith, Parsons, and Surtain to be gone. Think that brings us to Paye or trading down for Edge and an extra pick.
I think the only OL they would consider is Sewell if he somehow fell.
In this scenario I would be ok with Paye but would prefer a trade down with maybe New England, get a 2nd round or 3rd and 5th, and select Azeez Ojulari. He checks more boxes with what NYG is looking for in and Edge player
Quote:
at #11, you're potentially looking at Smith, Parsons, Waddle, Surtain, Horn, and then you're into the Edge with Paye presumably leading the charge. I'm not certain Waddle would be picked, but Smith would be if there's there. Suspect they would not pass over Surtain, but expect he'll be gone. Will Parsons go early is a key question, and he should based on talent.
Even with all the QBs that could go early, I expect Smith, Parsons, and Surtain to be gone. Think that brings us to Paye or trading down for Edge and an extra pick.
I think the only OL they would consider is Sewell if he somehow fell.
Are you personally down on Waddle or is that your feeling about the team? I think he would be a tremendous get, myself.
I haven't heard his name since very early on, suspect they would pounce on Smith but would go in a different direction if he's gone.
Quote:
at #11, you're potentially looking at Smith, Parsons, Waddle, Surtain, Horn, and then you're into the Edge with Paye presumably leading the charge. I'm not certain Waddle would be picked, but Smith would be if there's there. Suspect they would not pass over Surtain, but expect he'll be gone. Will Parsons go early is a key question, and he should based on talent.
Even with all the QBs that could go early, I expect Smith, Parsons, and Surtain to be gone. Think that brings us to Paye or trading down for Edge and an extra pick.
I think the only OL they would consider is Sewell if he somehow fell.
In this scenario I would be ok with Paye but would prefer a trade down with maybe New England, get a 2nd round or 3rd and 5th, and select Azeez Ojulari. He checks more boxes with what NYG is looking for in and Edge player
I'm not a huge fan of Ojulari, he takes too many plays off and disappears for stretches. I want more of an impact presence there. The UGA LBs not named Roquan have come into the NFL with question marks they've not escaped.
Quote:
In comment 15225468 JonC said:
Are you personally down on Waddle or is that your feeling about the team? I think he would be a tremendous get myself.
I haven't heard his name since very early on, suspect they would pounce on Smith but would go in a different direction if he's gone.
Actually, that we haven’t heard his name may be a reason to think they do like him if they are managing the information well. Who knows?
Quote:
He was amazing at finding late round OL gems in NC.....just saying.
Unless I'm missing someone, he found two - Turner and Norwell - both in 2014. I'd hardly call that amazing.
Daryl Williams in rd.4. Not sure if Nick Gates was on his watch too.
Even though Thomas had a slow start, he played every snap he was asked with a foot issue and we didn't hear a peep about it, and he's coachable.
In my mind - that puts a few guys OUT of the picture at 11, it just depends on if the Giants agree
Even though Thomas had a slow start, he played every snap he was asked with a foot issue and we didn't hear a peep about it, and he's coachable.
In my mind - that puts a few guys OUT of the picture at 11, it just depends on if the Giants agree
Good post. Based on much of what you say, I get this feeling that they will not consider Parsons an ideal culture fit.
Quote:
In comment 15225474 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15225468 JonC said:
Are you personally down on Waddle or is that your feeling about the team? I think he would be a tremendous get myself.
I haven't heard his name since very early on, suspect they would pounce on Smith but would go in a different direction if he's gone.
Actually, that we haven’t heard his name may be a reason to think they do like him if they are managing the information well. Who knows?
I'm by no means the final answer on these points, but the info is still getting out there and his name hasn't been mentioned much.
Owusu-Koramoah
Vera-Tucker
Paye