I guess that was the takeaway from yesterday's presser particularly Schwartz, Dunleavy, Stapleton
according to the Post Kwity Paye is at the top of the list
Schwartz is also writing that this year makes the most sense to trade down to take an ER -- but not too far
Giants shock this year and trade up.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
I don't think EE is enough to move up, it will cost more, and Pitts is probably gone top 6.
But if they take an ER at 11 with Smith/Slater/Horn/Surtain/Waddle still on the board, I'll be really disappointed.
Giants shock this year and trade up.
I wouldn't be shocked at all. Would seem par for the course as lost as the Giants have been.
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
I have the opposite gut feeling Britt. I think the biggest need is EDGE and I think that's where they will go. I think they will explore a small trade down and execute if they get fair value. But if not they will stay put and it will be Paye or Ojulari.
Right, but lately the draft trade ups have cost less than they used to. Arizona traded up from 15 to 10 for only a 3rd and 5th. The Jets traded all the way up to #2 without giving up a 1st. I don't think it would be an insane cost to swap 3 spots, and a young, talented starter like Engram might entice somebody.
Anybody know?
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
The Panthers GM should be fired if he trades down for evan engram. He stinks and he's got an expiring contract
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In comment 15227918 JonC said:
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
I have the opposite gut feeling Britt. I think the biggest need is EDGE and I think that's where they will go. I think they will explore a small trade down and execute if they get fair value. But if not they will stay put and it will be Paye or Ojulari.
Could be. But one thing I've noticed since Gettleman has taken over, they do not broadcast their intentions and as somebody mentioned above, it seems a little too obvious they are signaling edge. I think they are content with the defense and want to go all in and focus on offense this year.
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one of the few scenarios where the Giants have an opportunity to trade down .... is if Smith is still on the board, because honestly who else would a team want to trade up for?
Fields or Lance is who I'd assume would have to be on the board to get a trade down partner.
I guess somebody might want the QB, but they'd also have to believe the Eagles wanted to take the QB .... which I think is unlikely because if the Eagles wanted QB they'd have stayed at 6. .... but then again who knows what the Eagles will do
assuming Surtain is gone/they wouldn't draft him
no.. Paye has played all over the DL at Michigan
It's either that exactly or a total departure with Judge going for it all with Parsons if available. I can't decide.
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In comment 15227920 Britt in VA said:
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In comment 15227918 JonC said:
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
I have the opposite gut feeling Britt. I think the biggest need is EDGE and I think that's where they will go. I think they will explore a small trade down and execute if they get fair value. But if not they will stay put and it will be Paye or Ojulari.
Could be. But one thing I've noticed since Gettleman has taken over, they do not broadcast their intentions and as somebody mentioned above, it seems a little too obvious they are signaling edge. I think they are content with the defense and want to go all in and focus on offense this year.
Well, I hope they go BPA, defense or offense. But definitely starting to think it's going to land at EDGE. The other clue was Abrams talking about 2022 being difficult capwise. Would be difficult to add the edge piece there. Plus they went for Floyd first. We'll see I guess.
And the trotted Shaun O'hara to talk about WRs so what does that say ?
I do think Pitts has a much higher likelihood of being there at 8 than people are saying. Four QBs are likely going before that pick and Miami/Cincy just need to go Sewell/WR, which is also likely. Detroit isn't going TE. I'd say 8-10 is the range Pitts goes.
They wouldn't be giving up a pick. They'd be swapping picks and adding a starter, BBI's opinion of him aside.
I've noticed that too.
Most everyone on BBI thinks that EE sucks and yet they expect a big return of picks if and when he's traded. It doesn't add up.
Yes. I’d take Phillips over him regardless of the concussion concern.
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4-3 DE than a 3-4 edge ...... and therefore not the best fit?
no.. Paye has played all over the DL at Michigan
He hasn’t played standing up.
he was healthy in 2020 but then couldn't catch and was always involved in turnovers, he just can never put it together...would they want to run it back 1 more time with him to see if he can put the concentration stuff behind him? my bet is yes
1. OT Penei Sewell (91)
2. TE Kyle Pitts (90)
3. WR Ja'Marr Chase (89)
4. WR Devonta Smith (87)
5. G Rashawn Slater (85)
6. G Alijah Vera-Tucker (85)
7. Edge Kwity Paye (85)
8. CB Patrick Surtain (85)
Assuming 4 QB's are taken in the top 10, there will be a choice of 2 Pro Bowl potential players at #11. There is not a single player in the above group that I would be unhappy with if the Giants drafted him.
Trading down: There are only 4 that just miss the above tier at an 84 grade (Parsons, Ojulari, Moehrig, and Jaelen Phillips). By trading down you are making the calculation that the slight drop off is worth the extra pick, but you can't go too far (NE's #15 makes sense). We are not in the market for a safety in the first round and I'm assuming we are a hard pass on Phillips do to his medicals, meaning with a trade down, you are banking on Parsons or Ojulari being there or are assuming other players like Waddle or Horn will go higher. Is it worth that risk? Not sure.
For me, Paye is sitting somewhere in the 11-15 range. But, if NYG feels they can trade down and still get him, that suggests his true value could wind up a bit lower than I think.
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but he should be an extremely valuable asset that another team should be falling all over themselves to pay 6 million AND give up a draft pick for LOL..
I've noticed that too.
Most everyone on BBI thinks that EE sucks and yet they expect a big return of picks if and when he's traded. It doesn't add up.
I have not seen anybody think he would net a big return in picks at all. He's valued on this site in the 3-5 round range. That's all I've seen mentioned.
I do think Pitts has a much higher likelihood of being there at 8 than people are saying. Four QBs are likely going before that pick and Miami/Cincy just need to go Sewell/WR, which is also likely. Detroit isn't going TE. I'd say 8-10 is the range Pitts goes.
For all the talk of positional value on this site.... No TE has been taken in the top 5 since 1972. The highest drafted TE since then was Vernon Davis is 2006.
The QB action up top coupled with the positional value of the other blue chippers in Sewell and Chase have me thinking that he's going to fall into that bottom top 10 range. It wouldn't shock me if certain teams had Smith or Waddle in the blue chip territory either. It also wouldn't shock me if Slater went before him given how sound he is technically and the needs of teams at his position(s).
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
Why would the Panthers trade down for Engram when they could just take Pitts? He's younger, higher upside, and cost controlled for 5 years.
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but he should be an extremely valuable asset that another team should be falling all over themselves to pay 6 million AND give up a draft pick for LOL..
I've noticed that too.
Most everyone on BBI thinks that EE sucks and yet they expect a big return of picks if and when he's traded. It doesn't add up.
Nobody on BBI has posted anything close to a suggested big return. Copy here if you find some...
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In comment 15227918 JonC said:
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if the cost includes their #2 pick, highly doubt it.
Evan Engram will be the cost, and Pitts will be the target if he makes it there, IMO. And that's not based on what that guy posted yesterday, that's just my gut feeling. Been feeling that for a couple of weeks now.
Why would the Panthers trade down for Engram when they could just take Pitts? He's younger, higher upside, and cost controlled for 5 years.
Because they essentially get a starter at TE anyway, and also get to pick another first rounder at a different position.
As far as cost controlled, TE's aren't exactly premium paid positions.
I think they like a specific Edge guy and I think that guy is Ojulari. Hence the news they are willing to trade back because everyone has him ranks in the back half of the 1st round. They did want Floyd in FA.
Or this could all be smoke.
And even then there was suspense. +1
I have heard Weavers name come up in a lot of mocks. I like the way he plays and he a very good sized Edge player. Can he drop into the flat? I have seen him play from a 2 point stance a little. His teammate Jones is being billed as strictly a 4/3 DE.
I think they like a specific Edge guy and I think that guy is Ojulari. Hence the news they are willing to trade back because everyone has him ranks in the back half of the 1st round. They did want Floyd in FA.
Or this could all be smoke.
DG was fumbling around because he didn't understand/follow the edge question when asked I recall. Not sure noticed anything odd though as that seems to happen on occasion.
I think they like a specific Edge guy and I think that guy is Ojulari. Hence the news they are willing to trade back because everyone has him ranks in the back half of the 1st round. They did want Floyd in FA.
Or this could all be smoke.
DG has done a good job playing with doubters.
I still want Parsons but am warming to KP if Edge is the pick at 11.
Ojulari would be a fine pick at the Pats or Bears spot.
Yeah, that's why they hate him...
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In comment 15227912 Ron Johnson said:
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4-3 DE than a 3-4 edge ...... and therefore not the best fit?
no.. Paye has played all over the DL at Michigan
He hasn’t played standing up.
while paye is going to be a solid player, id throw the remote. he isnt a stand up edge. to me he is alot like leonard williams. we just paid a guy like paye, i dont think another is prudent. I rather have someone who can stand up and play in space if needed. Paye reminds me of tuck and i am not sure thats what we need. I rather parsons, smith, pitts, waddle, slater or even Vera tucker
Agree. Both are poor decisions...
You're still not getting it Bill. They don't want to take ER at 11. They want to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages so that they can draft ER later in the first round.
The same way that they wanted to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages in 2018. And waiting for 17 to pick Daniel Jones, even though all the evidence shows that there is a 0% chance that he would have been on the board at 17- and that DJ and Kyler Murray were the only first round QBs in the draft that year.
The positional value is totally different.
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and is okay with taking any of this equivalent crop of #18-#25 edges at #11.
You're still not getting it Bill. They don't want to take ER at 11. They want to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages so that they can draft ER later in the first round.
The same way that they wanted to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages in 2018. And waiting for 17 to pick Daniel Jones, even though all the evidence shows that there is a 0% chance that he would have been on the board at 17- and that DJ and Kyler Murray were the only first round QBs in the draft that year.
Then, you scout to see what the 2022 Edge class is like.
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and is okay with taking any of this equivalent crop of #18-#25 edges at #11.
You're still not getting it Bill. They don't want to take ER at 11. They want to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages so that they can draft ER later in the first round.
The same way that they wanted to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages in 2018. And waiting for 17 to pick Daniel Jones, even though all the evidence shows that there is a 0% chance that he would have been on the board at 17- and that DJ and Kyler Murray were the only first round QBs in the draft that year.
Why can’t they draft an edge in the second?
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In comment 15228156 Bill L said:
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and is okay with taking any of this equivalent crop of #18-#25 edges at #11.
You're still not getting it Bill. They don't want to take ER at 11. They want to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages so that they can draft ER later in the first round.
The same way that they wanted to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages in 2018. And waiting for 17 to pick Daniel Jones, even though all the evidence shows that there is a 0% chance that he would have been on the board at 17- and that DJ and Kyler Murray were the only first round QBs in the draft that year.
Why can’t they draft an edge in the second?
I don't see Paye as a plug and play guy. He seems more situational in YR1 - at best.
I'd rather get instant ROI in YR1 ,and one of those quality OLs will provide that.
BTW, we didn't have a problem holding teams to points. We were 9th. Now we will get a few more players coming back from injury, and we signed another corner. So the scheme worked. D really isn't the problem.
If you want another piece, add a corner.
But for crissakes, this OL needs at least two more quality pieces. I'd spend the first two picks on OL. That's a better plan. To have ANY confidence in the current roster of OLs is very likely Fool's Gold...
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In comment 15228156 Bill L said:
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and is okay with taking any of this equivalent crop of #18-#25 edges at #11.
You're still not getting it Bill. They don't want to take ER at 11. They want to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages so that they can draft ER later in the first round.
The same way that they wanted to trade down with imaginary teams offering imaginary packages in 2018. And waiting for 17 to pick Daniel Jones, even though all the evidence shows that there is a 0% chance that he would have been on the board at 17- and that DJ and Kyler Murray were the only first round QBs in the draft that year.
Then, you scout to see what the 2022 Edge class is like.
This team like all teams fall in love with certain players. Just look at the 49ers. Do any of you think they traded 3 1st round picks to move up for ANY QB? They moved up because they know who they want and who will be there. NFL teams do this all the time. There is a guy the Giants really like if he falls to 11. They may even have a trade up situation ready to go if they guy is just in front of them. There are also guys the Giants like if their number 1 target is gone. Then if all the top guys they love are gone they can either " overdraft " somebody or trade back to get a guy they know is not a blue chip but they love also.
Let's say they love Pitts and he is available at pick 8. The Giants may try to trade up to get him and trade Engram as part of the deal. Or lets say they stay put and get one of Smith or Waddle. I hope they go Parsons IF he is on the board.
Lets also say the see value for a particular Edge rusher like Ojulari and feel he will be available in the early 20's. A QB hungry team like Chicago wants to move up to get one of Fields, Lance or Jones. We trade back to 20, get Chicago's 2nd and 4th round picks in the 2021 draft, select Ojulari at 20 which I think is excellent value. It gives NYG the opportunity to add 2 more players in round 2 or package those picks to move up in to the back end of round 1 and get a WR the may love like Bateman from MN.
If we come away on day 1 getting Ojulari and Bateman and still have 5 more picks I would be pretty happy guy. could still land a OL in round 3, a LB and RB in round 4.
It could be a very distinct possibility the edge talk and the trade back talk are real.
If Sewell is still there at 8 - I would want to trade up for him. Cause he wont make it to 11
I don't see Paye as a plug and play guy. He seems more situational in YR1 - at best.
I'd rather get instant ROI in YR1 ,and one of those quality OLs will provide that.
BTW, we didn't have a problem holding teams to points. We were 9th. Now we will get a few more players coming back from injury, and we signed another corner. So the scheme worked. D really isn't the problem.
If you want another piece, add a corner.
But for crissakes, this OL needs at least two more quality pieces. I'd spend the first two picks on OL. That's a better plan. To have ANY confidence in the current roster of OLs is very likely Fool's Gold...
I agree with you on the edge and defense in general. We part on the OL piece. I see that as closer to the Edge argument and the WR class set apart. I would also almost bet figurative money by watching how they employed their OL last year and the emphasis on coaching hires this year that Judge et al are closer to my way of thinking than yours.
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I would guess late 3/early 4 territory. It would cost a little bit more than that move to 8 if that were their plan. Maybe if Carolina is open to a 2022 mid round pick + Engram the Giants could swing it. Giants already have among the lowest picks in this draft, I doubt they can part with another.
I do think Pitts has a much higher likelihood of being there at 8 than people are saying. Four QBs are likely going before that pick and Miami/Cincy just need to go Sewell/WR, which is also likely. Detroit isn't going TE. I'd say 8-10 is the range Pitts goes.
For all the talk of positional value on this site.... No TE has been taken in the top 5 since 1972. The highest drafted TE since then was Vernon Davis is 2006.
If you expand on this further, Tony Gonzalez in 97 is the last first round TE to have an All-Pro career. Before Tony, I don't even know who is. There are some other guys who flashed but that's about it.
You have to be 100% convinced that Pitts is the next Gronk or the bust factor is high.
link - ( New Window )
I agree with you on the edge and defense in general. We part on the OL piece. I see that as closer to the Edge argument and the WR class set apart. I would also almost bet figurative money by watching how they employed their OL last year and the emphasis on coaching hires this year that Judge et al are closer to my way of thinking than yours.
If you tally up the intel of the Asshats, you are probably right.
I've just reached a point where you can't have enough quality OLs. Next to QB, it may be the most critical position in the NFL. So let's splurge and grab even more.
The Giants know they will likely see the upside of any guy they bring in on the DLine. I'm still kind of shocked Judge coaxed this guy into the NFL. He's got some pull.
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In comment 15227912 Ron Johnson said:
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4-3 DE than a 3-4 edge ...... and therefore not the best fit?
no.. Paye has played all over the DL at Michigan
He hasn’t played standing up.
So what? He wouldn't know how to play the line standing up vs three point stance????
Likely, Graham approved the specific edge player and Graham thought the guy can be a difference-maker in his system. Then, I'm all for it.
Although, I would prefer Smith or Waddle to ER if they are available.