after the Jimmy G trade in 2017.
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By WEEI
a day ago
The 2017 NFL season was a very interesting one in New England.
Obviously, Jimmy Garoppolo was traded at the deadline and there were tons of reports and discussion about how all that went down, who made the ultimate decision and so on. Then came January of 2018, right when the Patriots were about to make a deep playoff run, and ESPN's Seth Wickerham released a long, detailed piece titled, "For Kraft, Brady and Belichick, is this the beginning of the end?"
The piece went into the power struggles within the organization between the three, etc. New England made it all the way to the Super Bowl that season before ultimately falling to the Eagles. Despite that success, things were not quite right inside the organization when it came to Tom Brady and Bill Belichick.
Speaking on the The Harrison Vapnek Podcast this week (link below, around 9:00), Wickersham went into more detail on that time period -- the 2018 offseason -- and revealed Belichick had spoken to the New York Giants, Washington Football Team and Miami Dolphins about their job openings.
Bill B - (
New Window )
I'm sure Belichick got cold feet. Any one of those teams would have jumped on the opportunity.
So, it sounds like those actually had legs.
replace "control" with "money" and/or "ownership stake" and you're probably closer to the real reason.
Had they lost to the Titans in the divisional round, maybe it would have been a different story.
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than the NYG structure would allow, and hiring Shumur reiforces it.
replace "control" with "money" and/or "ownership stake" and you're probably closer to the real reason.
I agree, leaving what he has in NE needs to be an upgrade and that means part ownership, IMO.
If BB asked for my first born, CPS would be all over me before lunch. I kid, kinda...Haha.
Same here.
Disagree.
It would be like Lombardi leaving the Packers for the Redskins.
He was given a stake in ownership, probably what Belicheck wanted.
Yes. Snyder would have ruined his entire career. Would have been a damned shame.
History will show that was a very wise decision.
Pat Shurmur, ugh. Nice guy, good OC/play caller, brutal head coach.
Pat Shurmur, ugh. Nice guy, good OC/play caller, brutal head coach.
For whatever reason George Young was not a BB fan and told Parcells that Bellichick was not getting the HC job when he left
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.
History will show that was a very wise decision.
Haha
Not sure why you are surprised. Mara absolutely believes deep in his soul that that they have the best system to achieve results. And he will never relinquish that thought.
So that's why I push back whenever someone suggests that Judge is acquiring more decision making power at Jints Central. As much as I would like to believe that, I just don't see ANY evidence that Mara will every find the ladder to climb out of his box. He is committed 100% to the paradigm that the GM has = or > decision making powers than the HC. So he will never upset that balance by giving a HC more. Ever...unfortunately.
I don't think this is a case of the Giants dropping the ball. Washington would have backed up the Brinks truck and given him anything he wanted.
I don't think this is a case of the Giants dropping the ball. Washington would have backed up the Brinks truck and given him anything he wanted.
You're deluding yourself because the reality it too painful to contemplate.
Giants passed on Belichick for Handley back in 1991 and they pass on Belichick for Shurmur in 2017.
This was really debated?
I do think you might have had some back channel discussion.
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teams really had a chance to land Belichick, they would have?
I don't think this is a case of the Giants dropping the ball. Washington would have backed up the Brinks truck and given him anything he wanted.
You're deluding yourself because the reality it too painful to contemplate.
Giants passed on Belichick for Handley back in 1991 and they pass on Belichick for Shurmur in 2017.
Bill Belichick in 1991 is not the same as Bill Belichick in 2018.
Secondly, how can you explain the other two, or any other team for that matter, not landing him?
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In comment 15228244 Britt in VA said:
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teams really had a chance to land Belichick, they would have?
I don't think this is a case of the Giants dropping the ball. Washington would have backed up the Brinks truck and given him anything he wanted.
You're deluding yourself because the reality it too painful to contemplate.
Giants passed on Belichick for Handley back in 1991 and they pass on Belichick for Shurmur in 2017.
Bill Belichick in 1991 is not the same as Bill Belichick in 2018.
Secondly, how can you explain the other two, or any other team for that matter, not landing him?
Arrogance and incompetence.
Belichick is on tape practically in tears discussing his affection for the Giants. Why didn't he come back? Probably because he wanted more control than Mara was willing to give him.
As long as Mara was unwilling to change the decision making structure, there really was NO CHANCE.
So the point is really moot.
The Giants are a family business. John Mara has said it many times. That trumps winning.
Belichick is on tape practically in tears discussing his affection for the Giants. Why didn't he come back? Probably because he wanted more control than Mara was willing to give him.
Mara is an idiot then.
Belichick is on tape practically in tears discussing his affection for the Giants. Why didn't he come back? Probably because he wanted more control than Mara was willing to give him.
I'm not defending it, I just said it was different.
I saw The Two Bills. He has a soft spot for the Giants. I know. He has consistently helped us through the years, even recommending Judge whom he was grooming.
You talk about control. He just had Garapolo traded out from underneath him. Why didn't he leave? Why is he still there? He could get a blank check from any team in the NFL.
I don't think this is a case of the Giants dropping the ball. Washington would have backed up the Brinks truck and given him anything he wanted.
Maybe, but that doesn't mean BB wanted to go to Washington. I really believe he wanted to come home to the Giants. He would have needed full control and I suspect that and the fact that the Mara's would have to basically be stealing him from the Kraft's probably kept that from happening.
I do think getting Judge, who came out of left field, was due in part to Judge's connection to BB.
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we now put to rest this debate? There REALLY was a chance to land Belichick, despite those who insisted there wasn't a chance.
As long as Mara was unwilling to change the decision making structure, there really was NO CHANCE.
So the point is really moot.
The keys to the castle should have been the offer.
So those 3 teams,one being the Giants,were probably just being used.
When his contract was up was a great unknown to everyone publicly. It was regularly discussed on BBI that no one knew when Bill was truly a "free agent" able to talk to other teams.
Clearly he was a free agent in 2017 and if the report is accurate, Belichick was willing to leave the Patriots if someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
I'm just speculating here. But that seems like an obvious reason.
When his contract was up was a great unknown to everyone publicly. It was regularly discussed on BBI that know one knew when Bill was truly a "free agent" able to talk to other teams.
Clearly he was a free agent in 2017 and if the report is accurate, Belichick was willing to leave the Patriots if someone made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
Eric From BBI:
And any team would have. The fact that he's still there in New England makes it highly unlikely he was serious about leaving.
There is NO IF. Let's get that straight.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
Remember, Parcells tried to come back once too and the Giants said no thanks.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
Remember, Parcells tried to come back once too and the Giants said no thanks.
If I recall correctly, Parcells flirted with coming back so many times they stopped taking him seriously.
I remember the last time something about sitting in the car in the Meadowlands parking lot on the phone telling the Giants "don't forget about me as a GM candidate" when Ernie Accorsi retired.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
Remember, Parcells tried to come back once too and the Giants said no thanks.
Well, same thing - groceries.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
Remember, Parcells tried to come back once too and the Giants said no thanks.
If only Young had a damn cell phone. That said, I don't even know why it came down to that. That was a no brainer over JF.
Yes. It is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe that if Bill Belichick wanted to coach another team, nobody would sign him. Including Washington and Miami.
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but is this really so hard to believe?
Yes. It is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe that if Bill Belichick wanted to coach another team, nobody would sign him. Including Washington and Miami.
Why? Winning is secondary to these owners after power and money.
There were two opportunities since TC was about to go that BB was in play, that I know of.
Interesting that they seem to be changing that way of thinking. Whispers all over that they have handed ALL the keys to Judge so to speak.
Man, if the report is true about ownership not being willing to give more control to BB then what a bummer but lets hope it happened for reason and woke them up. That's what it is looking like to me.
I think part of the BB in '91 was he had a affair with a secretary which with Wellington would probably be a big no no.
I would not blame any franchise for not giving ownership. Players and coaches come and go, the franchise does not. Rather find the next Parcells, BB, Gibbs, Lombardi etc.
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teams really had a chance to land Belichick, they would have?
I don't think this is a case of the Giants dropping the ball. Washington would have backed up the Brinks truck and given him anything he wanted.
You're deluding yourself because the reality it too painful to contemplate.
Giants passed on Belichick for Handley back in 1991 and they pass on Belichick for Shurmur in 2017.
So we passed on BB for Shurmur? What's the excuse for Miami and Washington?
This isn't delusion and you seem to be grasping at situation that sounds like it had almost no chance of materializing.
Not every business discussion go sideways/south because there isn't a meeting of the minds. They are both still professionals in a pretty tight industry.
BB has earned the right to ask for almost anything. Mara isn't the owner that is going to just hand him the keys.
I think part of the BB in '91 was he had a affair with a secretary which with Wellington would probably be a big no no.
I would not blame any franchise for not giving ownership. Players and coaches come and go, the franchise does not. Rather find the next Parcells, BB, Gibbs, Lombardi etc.
are most here to young to remember this? a married coach having an affair with the owners married secretary = goodbye coach
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than the NYG structure would allow, and hiring Shumur reiforces it.
Interesting that they seem to be changing that way of thinking. Whispers all over that they have handed ALL the keys to Judge so to speak.
Man, if the report is true about ownership not being willing to give more control to BB then what a bummer but lets hope it happened for reason and woke them up. That's what it is looking like to me.
I think BBI wants to believe Judge has been handed the keys. I think it's more accurate he's got a louder voice, thus added influence. But, he's still not the GM.
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to take a walk.... Why would he now be helping us with Judge?
Not every business discussion go sideways/south because there isn't a meeting of the minds. They are both still professionals in a pretty tight industry.
BB has earned the right to ask for almost anything. Mara isn't the owner that is going to just hand him the keys.
Snyder is. Why isn't he there?
it came from Florio:
@ProFootballTalk
Belichick is a lot closer to $25 million than $12 million
I have no idea how much money the Giants make in profit each year...but we do know that the Maras only get half. And then there's a whole bunch of siblings who probably get their share (11?). And when you consider football is the family business (as opposed to billionaires who make their money elsewhere and then purchased teams), paying that much for a coach might hurt a bit.
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In comment 15228303 Britt in VA said:
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to take a walk.... Why would he now be helping us with Judge?
Not every business discussion go sideways/south because there isn't a meeting of the minds. They are both still professionals in a pretty tight industry.
BB has earned the right to ask for almost anything. Mara isn't the owner that is going to just hand him the keys.
Snyder is. Why isn't he there?
I don't know if Snyder is or why he isn't there. What difference does it make...cannot not be for the same reason he isn't here?
So then it jumps down to beating his previous contract and yeah, $25m (if that number is true) is a lot and I highly doubt he leave NE for a slight increase to that figure. $26m isn't going to make a difference especially since it isn't a publicly known number of which his ego can be stroked.
And then there's the other teams out there that also didn't land him - that tells me either A. his demands were unrealistic or B. he was never really serious about leaving, it was a negotiation tactic to get what he wanted from Kraft.
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
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In comment 15228295 Jimmy Googs said:
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but is this really so hard to believe?
Yes. It is EXTREMELY hard for me to believe that if Bill Belichick wanted to coach another team, nobody would sign him. Including Washington and Miami.
Why? Winning is secondary to these owners after power and money.
This is just a stupid comment. The Maras want to and have always wanted to win. They are not independently wealthy from other businesses like the Tisches. They have spent $$. The issue is not the intent, but poor decision making. Spending big but not intelligently gives you George Steinbrenner's 1980s-1990 Yankees.
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
You won't receive what you don't ask for, float the trial balloon. It's pretty clear both BB and Brady were looking for potential new places to land, and one eventually did.
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
Way to spoil the fun with a bunch of smarty pants reality
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
So is it realistic to think that Belichick would just waste the time of several owners, one of which he has somewhat of an open dialogue with? Is it realistic to think Mara doesn't know when his time is being wasted either?
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Washington, Miami, and the NYG all passed on Belichick in 2018?
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
You won't receive what you don't ask for, float the trial balloon. It's pretty clear both BB and Brady were looking for potential new places to land, and one eventually did.
That article said "had discussions with". So the trial balloon, if the story is true, was floated.
Secondly, how do we know it wasn't a power struggle between Brady and Belichick? Because the issue was over Garappolo being traded from under Belichick because Brady felt threatened. Once one of them left, it wasn't necessary for the other one to.
Man, is this not the ultimate quote for BBI for the last 10 years?
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Washington, Miami, and the NYG all passed on Belichick in 2018?
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
So is it realistic to think that Belichick would just waste the time of several owners, one of which he has somewhat of an open dialogue with? Is it realistic to think Mara doesn't know when his time is being wasted either?
No, it's realistic to think that if these three teams, or any team for that matter, really had an opportunity to hire the greatest coach of all time for their franchise, and all the money and fanfare that would come with it, they would have done so.
My Wednesday is ruined.
That's a real credit to Kraft for brokering the peace...
Besides, as much as we all love and respect BB, last year doesn't open some eyes even a little bit as to Brady's significance there?
Finally, I'm loving what I see from Joe Judge who is young enough to be BB's kid. We just might have our own 10-15 year head coach. Are we getting that from Bill if we hire him in 2018? Or a Super Bowl in the short term with where this roster was?
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in New England after this supposedly happened, as well.
That's a real credit to Kraft for brokering the peace...
And I'm sure there was some financial incentive to both for doing so, which makes this story harder to believe, and more likely that Bill Belichick used these teams for leverage.
Oh I believe they may have talked. For sure.
I don't believe he was truly serious about leaving, or he would be gone right now.
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In comment 15228331 Britt in VA said:
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Washington, Miami, and the NYG all passed on Belichick in 2018?
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
So is it realistic to think that Belichick would just waste the time of several owners, one of which he has somewhat of an open dialogue with? Is it realistic to think Mara doesn't know when his time is being wasted either?
No, it's realistic to think that if these three teams, or any team for that matter, really had an opportunity to hire the greatest coach of all time for their franchise, and all the money and fanfare that would come with it, they would have done so.
Maybe it wasn't just to be the coach.
2006 seems like more of a "what if" but even then, TC posted 2 trophies since that time, so to get really worked up about it you have to assume Bill would have won 3 ore more Super Bowls here since then. Again, questionable if we're talking about subtracting Brady from the picture.
The interest was expressed more than once, beyond that it depends how emotionally vested you choose to be in what is known. That's the only reason why I can see you fight it so hard.
If winning was paramount why would they opt for Gettleman/Shurmur over Belichick? Is that intelligent spending?
The Giants opened a new PSL stadium in 2010. The owners unequivocally won the CBA negotiations in 2011. The Giants' valuation has tripled from about $1B to $3.2B since they beat the Pats in XLII (less than 13 years ago!).
But spending on one of the greatest coaches in the history of sports is a bridge too far? What?!
I've read a lot of smart things on BBI over the years. The smartest one related to the Giants is one I have repeated occasionally, but is not my original idea...I can't remember who posted it...
The Maras don't try to win. They hope to win.
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but it doesn't change contact was made, and more than one time. When TC was dead man walking, it was a very real possibility and the backchannels were buzzing.
2006 seems like more of a "what if" but even then, TC posted 2 trophies since that time, so to get really worked up about it you have to assume Bill would have won 3 ore more Super Bowls here since then. Again, questionable if we're talking about subtracting Brady from the picture.
2015
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In comment 15228350 Britt in VA said:
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in New England after this supposedly happened, as well.
That's a real credit to Kraft for brokering the peace...
And I'm sure there was some financial incentive to both for doing so, which makes this story harder to believe, and more likely that Bill Belichick used these teams for leverage.
From what I hear, BB was pretty livid with the decision to trade JimG. And how Brady pulled his "I'm the other son in the Kraft family" card to facilitate the trade of JimG to the 9ers.
So I could see BB possibly manipulating interest from the market to gain back some lost power.
But BB is very loyal to Kraft for giving him the second chance to be a HC. So he very likely wanted to stay...
Of course. And if BB gained real leverage, it was most likely because they were real conversations with real possibilities.
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In comment 15228343 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15228331 Britt in VA said:
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Washington, Miami, and the NYG all passed on Belichick in 2018?
Or Belichick was never serious about leaving and didn't give them any direct indication that they should wait for him until after the Superbowl?
So is it realistic to think that Belichick would just waste the time of several owners, one of which he has somewhat of an open dialogue with? Is it realistic to think Mara doesn't know when his time is being wasted either?
No, it's realistic to think that if these three teams, or any team for that matter, really had an opportunity to hire the greatest coach of all time for their franchise, and all the money and fanfare that would come with it, they would have done so.
Maybe it wasn't just to be the coach.
And again, why didn't he sign with Washington then? If Snyder would give that power to Rivera, you think he wouldn't give it to Belichick?
“We’re going to have one voice and one voice alone, and that’s going to be the coach’s,” Snyder said.
Rivera said Snyder told him in meetings over the past few weeks that he wanted the Redskins to be more like the New England Patriots, Kansas City Chiefs and Seattle Seahawks, franchises where the coach has much of the final say about which players to sign, draft, cut and play.
While Rivera tried to insist he wouldn’t be “omnipotent” and would work collaboratively with the other football executives, it was clear Snyder hired him to be the most powerful person in the team’s facility.
You might say you would, and I wouldn't believe you.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
bump
I'm just saying I don't believe it. If Bill Belichick wanted another job, he'd have one. And it could be ANY job in the league on a silver platter.
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Perhaps.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
bump
+2
You might say you would, and I wouldn't believe you.
Of course you fork over a small piece if that's the ask. If BB wanted 2-3% you call Skadden Arps in thirty seconds and get that in motion...
But it mentions three teams. Why are those other two teams just tossed aside as if they don't exist?
Washington is the KING of shit like this. This is what they do. Money? Power? Do you know what hiring Bill Belichick would do for that fanbase, and then in turn revenue? If they had any shot, they would have taken it.
I'm the delusional one, but you guys have convinced yourselves that Mara passed on Bill Belichick in order to further bash the guy.
I really feel like this is bizarro world here.
I'm just saying I don't believe it. If Bill Belichick wanted another job, he'd have one. And it could be ANY job in the league on a silver platter.
Wouldn't describe you as delusional but you are indeed digging in for some reason.
And BB most likely doesn't want ANY other job in the league, regardless of the platter. And its very possible he just wasn't going to get what he wanted in NY or one of the other interested venues.
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you don't even know what the ask was. If it was ownership (and why wouldn't that be the ask?) just ask yourself if you'd do it.
You might say you would, and I wouldn't believe you.
Of course you fork over a small piece if that's the ask. If BB wanted 2-3% you call Skadden Arps in thirty seconds and get that in motion...
I don't believe you would. And apparently, if that was the ask, at least 3 teams agree.
You may want your owner to only care about football operations but that itsn't how it works. And in a revenue sharing business, it makes even less sense.
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In comment 15228132 JonC said:
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than the NYG structure would allow, and hiring Shumur reiforces it.
Interesting that they seem to be changing that way of thinking. Whispers all over that they have handed ALL the keys to Judge so to speak.
Man, if the report is true about ownership not being willing to give more control to BB then what a bummer but lets hope it happened for reason and woke them up. That's what it is looking like to me.
I think BBI wants to believe Judge has been handed the keys. I think it's more accurate he's got a louder voice, thus added influence. But, he's still not the GM.
Appreciate the input and I think you are correct. There is a difference there. Louder voice, still not GM. Which makes the BB situation different. Do we know he wanted both roles or the final say?
I'm glad this got brought up. Fun to talk about.
It's why Parcells left every NFL coaching job he had except Dallas (but he left for the same reason he found out he couldn't trust Jones over Terrell Owens and thankfully he quit because if he was coaching the Cowboys in 2007 things probably would have ended differently. He built a powerhouse there before Jerry screwed it up).
When ownership changed Parcells left. The Giants, The Pats and the Jets. That's the same reason Belichick quit the Jets and probably why he would never seriously consider Snyder or Ross.
Based on his public comments if he ever was going to Kraft it would have been for Mara.
It's ok, I don't know.
I don't believe you would. And apparently, if that was the ask, at least 3 teams agree.
You may want your owner to only care about football operations but that itsn't how it works. And in a revenue sharing business, it makes even less sense.
I have worked with small healthcare start-up several times in my career and have supported the majority owners in giving up some equity to bring in more talent. So I would absolutely do that in this hypothetical. The goal is to win and increase the value of the organization. I would trust BB to do that...
If the Giants were an expansion team then maybe, but they aren't. I know I wouldn't give up ownership if I were Mara, there's no reason for him to.
But you and I agree on something fundamental: any decision to hire/not hire Belichick would be made based on issues other than winning. Winning is not the paramount consideration.
If the Giants were an expansion team then maybe, but they aren't. I know I wouldn't give up ownership if I were Mara, there's no reason for him to.
The Giants have sold ownership before when Tim sold to Tisch. So why not a small piece to a Hall of Fame coach? I'm not talking 10%+.
How much do you think BB has increased the value of the Pats for Kraft, btw?
For your edification, the start-ups I was with were not short on cash. We were looking to accelerate growth, find a buyer and then liquidate. So adding talent, and giving up some equity, was more than worth the stretch...
If Bill Belichick wanted either job, or both, he would be here. I'm 1000% convinced of that.
If Bill Belichick wanted either job, or both, he would be here. I'm 1000% convinced of that.
I think its fair to say BB wanted both jobs, whether he had the title or not. But in NY that likely wasn't the offer...
But you and I agree on something fundamental: any decision to hire/not hire Belichick would be made based on issues other than winning. Winning is not the paramount consideration.
You can argue that Brady was a more valuable resource based on last season.
You go so overboard in your commentary your posts read like hyperbole.
What was Bill going to do with this roster the last few years? Go 7-9 like he did this year with a shell of his former New England teams? I have little doubt he would have restored credibility as opposed to the continuation of the circus with Shurmur, but then what? When you hire a head coach you should be looking at it from the perspective of getting your guy for the next 15-20 years. I'm sorry but Bill isn't/wasn't doing that now or in 2018.
But you and I agree on something fundamental: any decision to hire/not hire Belichick would be made based on issues other than winning. Winning is not the paramount consideration.
Not true at all. You are approaching this as a fan and that's fine but I wish you'd just say it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a business owner first - even the most successful franchises are just that.
The NYG most valuable asset is the NYG and everything that comes with it. Their value has skyrocketed during the years that we've stunk.
There's no incentive for Mara to give ownership away.
NY Giants Value - ( New Window )
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And they've been one since. From a purely football standpoint there is no resource the Giants have had from 2017-2021 that would be more valuable than Belichick. No players, no coaches, no executives. There is no combination of anything the Giants have that is better than Belichick for winning football games.
But you and I agree on something fundamental: any decision to hire/not hire Belichick would be made based on issues other than winning. Winning is not the paramount consideration.
Not true at all. You are approaching this as a fan and that's fine but I wish you'd just say it. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being a business owner first - even the most successful franchises are just that.
The NYG most valuable asset is the NYG and everything that comes with it. Their value has skyrocketed during the years that we've stunk.
There's no incentive for Mara to give ownership away. NY Giants Value - ( New Window )
I am approaching this as a fan. I want the Giants to win. I don't think they turn over every stone to win...I certainly don't think they did in this case, where they apparently opted for Gettleman/Shurmur instead of Belichick.
There's no reason for any NFL team to do it (which is my overarching point).
There may have been some flirtations in the years since, but that's all they've been. He's gone on to win 6 titles in the years since and us 2, ironically directly at his expense.
Rather than cry over BB, I'd rather sit here today and take the little bit of a leap that we may have just hired one of the best young head coaches in the game.
This is getting silly.
I need a fucking drink
This is getting silly.
You're assuming that an ownership share was the ask. We don't know that.
It could just as easily be $35M/year, BUT total say over football operations.
The big ask there isn't the money; it's booting out the family and friends running the mom & pop shop.
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turning over every stone to win. Look at who Philly just hired, why aren't they offering BB 5% to coach? Why isn't Jerry Jones, who's lauded for doing whatever it takes to win, giving BB a big share of the Cowboys?
This is getting silly.
You're assuming that an ownership share was the ask. We don't know that.
It could just as easily be $35M/year, BUT total say over football operations.
The big ask there isn't the money; it's booting out the family and friends running the mom & pop shop.
If you don't like nepotism or mixing business with family, Bill B. is not your guy.
You know that before Bill made his son defensive assistant in 2012 his son's resume included playing lacrosse and long snapping for Schiano at Rutgers?
And what has he done without Tom Brady? His personnel decisions especially in draft in Free Agency have largely been awful, but were masked because of Brady. Drafts a bunch of TE's last year then signs 2 high paid ones this year. What a terrible allocation of resources. His draft record might actually be worse than Marc Ross.
Btw, this news would be disappointing if true. Oh well 🤷
Also, he doesn't need to apologize for having had Tom Brady, but after this past season I think Brady showed what his true value there was, it was significant beyond what we might have even thought.
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Belichick's record as head coach is 280-136 and has won 6 SBs. He can make his dog the offensive coordinator for all I care.
And what has he done without Tom Brady? His personnel decisions especially in draft in Free Agency have largely been awful, but were masked because of Brady. Drafts a bunch of TE's last year then signs 2 high paid ones this year. What a terrible allocation of resources. His draft record might actually be worse than Marc Ross.
Belichick has missed the playoffs 4 times in his Pats tenure. Only once has he missed with Brady as the starting QB, when they went 9-7 his sophomore season.
The other times, they had Bledsoe, Cassel and Newton as their QB's.
I wonder if Little Bill's dog has some magic formula to overcome not having the GOAT at QB?
There's no reason for any NFL team to do it (which is my overarching point).
There is always a reason. And winning more trophies should be a driving force. I mean, we've been hearing from Mara the last four years how much he wants to put a winning product on the field. He has sounded desperate trying to do it. So why not get creative?
Hell, I always imagined if Jordan wanted a piece of the Bulls that Reinsdorf would have done it. He knew how insanely valuable Jordan was to his ownership of that team. So it's the exception opportunity, not the rule. And I would contend a savant like BB fits into that exception side.
Again, I'm not leaning into a big equity slice - like 10%. I'm thinking a small piece. Maybe 1-2%.
Look, it's just a big hypothetical. And it never came to pass. And very likely because Mara is so stuck in his narrow way of thinking...
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that was 1 example. I've worked for 2 start ups and obviously you give up equity for different reasons. Sometimes its cash-flow, sometimes its a strategic partnership to get in front of a new audience, sometimes its to streamline production, etc. But my point is there's no reason for the Giants, right now, to give up any equity. Their value basically tripled in less than 10 years.
There's no reason for any NFL team to do it (which is my overarching point).
There is always a reason. And winning more trophies should be a driving force. I mean, we've been hearing from Mara the last four years how much he wants to put a winning product on the field. He has sounded desperate trying to do it. So why not get creative?
Hell, I always imagined if Jordan wanted a piece of the Bulls that Reinsdorf would have done it. He knew how insanely valuable Jordan was to his ownership of that team. So it's the exception opportunity, not the rule. And I would contend a savant like BB fits into that exception side.
Again, I'm not leaning into a big equity slice - like 10%. I'm thinking a small piece. Maybe 1-2%.
Look, it's just a big hypothetical. And it never came to pass. And very likely because Mara is so stuck in his narrow way of thinking...
You casually throw out stuff like your last sentence. You have no evidence or no basis for saying anything like that but you phrase it as "very likely". No, it's not very likely.
I'd imagine the boss would catch on eventually that he's being trolled and end such employment of these "rational thinkers"....
You casually throw out stuff like your last sentence. You have no evidence or no basis for saying anything like that but you phrase it as "very likely". No, it's not very likely.
Let's not confuse Mara with Mark Cuban or Jerry Jones. He's a 66 year old man who inherited the family business. And only knows the "Giants Way" of doing football through Papa Welli. So this isn't a man who has risked his money in other business and ideas. He sees things through one big blue lens...
And if you don't think he's stuck in his ways, let me know if you want to revisit the GMs he's hired over the years.
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You casually throw out stuff like your last sentence. You have no evidence or no basis for saying anything like that but you phrase it as "very likely". No, it's not very likely.
Let's not confuse Mara with Mark Cuban or Jerry Jones. He's a 66 year old man who inherited the family business. And only knows the "Giants Way" of doing football through Papa Welli. So this isn't a man who has risked his money in other business and ideas. He sees things through one big blue lens...
And if you don't think he's stuck in his ways, let me know if you want to revisit the GMs he's hired over the years.
Yea, just like how we all heard he was supposed to roll over and hand the keys of the car to Jason Garrett or Mike McCarthy after losing Rhule right?
How is that working out?
Is this directed at me? Because I've offered up valid reasons why I would offer equity if that's what BB wanted. Seems like a pretty good topic to kick around...
Those "out of the box" owners are killing it!!
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are this disingenuous and argue in such bad faith in real life as you do here. If at your jobs you just toss out theories and emotional guesses as if they are facts. If you shitpost about matters of consequence beyond a football team.
Is this directed at me? Because I've offered up valid reasons why I would offer equity if that's what BB wanted. Seems like a pretty good topic to kick around...
I think you know that you are one of the ones it is directed to. And I think you also know exactly what I am talking about as you have been a semi-professional troll for more than two decades.
Yea, just like how we all heard he was supposed to roll over and hand the keys of the car to Jason Garrett or Mike McCarthy after losing Rhule right?
How is that working out?
Not following this one. I was not a Rhule guy at all.
Those "out of the box" owners are killing it!!
Uh, Mavericks have never won an NBA title? Really?
Same as the Yankee fans whining for George the Boob because he "wanted to win".
You may not like it, but Jones has played a crucial role in helping the NFL expand revenue opportunities for the rest of the league. A helluva lot more than Mara.
Just look at the funeral home stadium Mara built compared to the Taj Mahal Jerry built...
The other times, they had Bledsoe, Cassel and Newton as their QB's.
I wonder if Little Bill's dog has some magic formula to overcome not having the GOAT at QB?
some more color...
Think the Bledsoe year was BB's first year coaching the Pats.
The Pats won 11 games the year with Cassel.
The Pats had the most opt-outs (8) in the NFL the year with Newton.
Chicago Bulls valuation - ( New Window )
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like shitting on Mara while comparing him to a guy (Cuban) who has never won a title and another guy (Jones) whose team hasn't won anything since 1994.
Those "out of the box" owners are killing it!!
Uh, Mavericks have never won an NBA title? Really?
My bad. They won one title. And Cuban has been fined almost $2M in his time there for numerous infractions.
Is this really the model you're trolling for now?
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hasn't won a fucking thing in 25 years. I'm glad we're still holding that decrepit drunk up as the model of modern sports ownership. Be he WANTS TO WIN! YEAHHHH!!!!
You may not like it, but Jones has played a crucial role in helping the NFL expand revenue opportunities for the rest of the league. A helluva lot more than Mara.
Just look at the funeral home stadium Mara built compared to the Taj Mahal Jerry built...
Ah, so now you think the expansion of revenue opportunities for the rest of the league is a defining factor for a successful NFL owner (a position you assuredly didn't care about before)? It's almost as if you just move the goalposts and change the context of the argument so that you can always be right. Kind of like how you disappeared from BBI when the team was winning Super Bowls and then shamelessly slunk back at the first sight of trouble afterwards...
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hasn't won a fucking thing in 25 years. I'm glad we're still holding that decrepit drunk up as the model of modern sports ownership. Be he WANTS TO WIN! YEAHHHH!!!!
You may not like it, but Jones has played a crucial role in helping the NFL expand revenue opportunities for the rest of the league. A helluva lot more than Mara.
Just look at the funeral home stadium Mara built compared to the Taj Mahal Jerry built...
I thought this was about winning titles. Now it's about expanding revenue for the league and stadiums? Helping it be what it is today: an nearly unwatchable commercial laden product where the game is 2ndary?? I guess anything goes as long as it fits the "Mara sucks" narrative.
Its just a very strange thing to get hung up on and upset over, especially when 0 teams have done what you are suggesting.
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In comment 15228593 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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like shitting on Mara while comparing him to a guy (Cuban) who has never won a title and another guy (Jones) whose team hasn't won anything since 1994.
Those "out of the box" owners are killing it!!
Uh, Mavericks have never won an NBA title? Really?
My bad. They won one title. And Cuban has been fined almost $2M in his time there for numerous infractions.
Is this really the model you're trolling for now?
Cuban has been mostly fined for complaining about the NBA's horrible officiating. Gee, how dare he have the courage to bring that to light...
But that's not the point. The point is Mara has a very myopic view of his business whereas a guy like Cuban, who has been in various other business risking his own money, has a broader view and is very likely more apt to try new ideas.
I mean, this isn't Wharton stuff we're kicking around here...
Those "out of the box" owners are killing it!!
Ah, so now you think the expansion of revenue opportunities for the rest of the league is a defining factor for a successful NFL owner (a position you assuredly didn't care about before)? It's almost as if you just move the goalposts and change the context of the argument so that you can always be right. Kind of like how you disappeared from BBI when the team was winning Super Bowls and then shamelessly slunk back at the first sight of trouble afterwards...
No, but I think a guy like Jones thinks more out of the box than a guy like Mara because of his life experiences. What have Mara's struggles been? Picking the next GM?
This is the same family, the Maras, who were literally saved by the NFL. So let's not act like we are dealing with innovators here...
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I thought this was about winning titles. Now it's about expanding revenue for the league and stadiums? Helping it be what it is today: an nearly unwatchable commercial laden product where the game is 2ndary?? I guess anything goes as long as it fits the "Mara sucks" narrative.
No, no, no. Winning doesn't matter. What matters is providing the owners of the Indianapolis Colts and Jacksonville Jaguars with higher earning potential. YEAH! GO REVENUE EXPANSION IN OTHER CITIES!!!!
Its just a very strange thing to get hung up on and upset over, especially when 0 teams have done what you are suggesting.
That's misconstruing my position. I was simply talking about the idea of sweeting a deal to bring back a guy like BB by throwing in equity.
And then the usual suspects, who tend to spray lemon juice on the screen to find some hidden meaning, crash the party.
My bad. They won one title. And Cuban has been fined almost $2M in his time there for numerous infractions.
Is this really the model you're trolling for now? [/quote]
Says the guy that joined this thread when it was time to just pile on another poster.
you are The Troll...
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Ah, so now you think the expansion of revenue opportunities for the rest of the league is a defining factor for a successful NFL owner (a position you assuredly didn't care about before)? It's almost as if you just move the goalposts and change the context of the argument so that you can always be right. Kind of like how you disappeared from BBI when the team was winning Super Bowls and then shamelessly slunk back at the first sight of trouble afterwards...
No, but I think a guy like Jones thinks more out of the box than a guy like Mara because of his life experiences. What have Mara's struggles been? Picking the next GM?
This is the same family, the Maras, who were literally saved by the NFL. So let's not act like we are dealing with innovators here...
You are so right. Jerry Jones's inspiring tale of struggle when he graduated college to become Executive Vice President of his father's multi-million dollar insurance company after blowing a million dollars on a pizza chain. The folk songs written about this rise still bring tears to the eyes.
He was fined $600K alone for saying the Mavs should tank the season in 2018. He was fined $100K for trying to get Lebron to sign with the team during a TV interview.
I thought this was about winning titles. Now it's about expanding revenue for the league and stadiums? Helping it be what it is today: an nearly unwatchable commercial laden product where the game is 2ndary?? I guess anything goes as long as it fits the "Mara sucks" narrative.
Well, it is about winning titles. And that was the idea with what we could possibly have done to bring BB back if he really had an interest. Which led to the idea of equity. And then why Mara wouldn't be creative enough to go that route...
My bad. They won one title. And Cuban has been fined almost $2M in his time there for numerous infractions.
Is this really the model you're trolling for now?
Says the guy that joined this thread when it was time to just pile on another poster.
you are The Troll... [/quote]
That's not when I joined the thread, Clownshoes.
Maybe you can learn to use the quote feature as well as you do posting big ass pictures.
Clownshoes. Annoying noises - no meaning
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That's misconstruing my position. I was simply talking about the idea of sweeting a deal to bring back a guy like BB by throwing in equity.
And then the usual suspects, who tend to spray lemon juice on the screen to find some hidden meaning, crash the party.
Shall we then discuss the fact that your role model Dan Snyder, clearly someone who WANTS TO WIN, also did not meet the mythical demands that BB had demanded in your head? Or that Mr. Snyder, between bouts of slapping secretaries on the ass, did not use his legendary creativity to think OUTSIDE THE BOX and get it done for BB in Washington? You must be terribly disappointed.
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Cuban has been mostly fined for complaining about the NBA's horrible officiating. Gee, how dare he have the courage to bring that to light...
He was fined $600K alone for saying the Mavs should tank the season in 2018. He was fined $100K for trying to get Lebron to sign with the team during a TV interview.
Notice the adverb mostly. He's been fined mostly for officiating.
Cuban - ( New Window )
Do you think if the Giants secretly knew to wait to hire a head coach until after the Superbowl and then shocked the NFL world by hiring Belichick with a deal in place that it wouldn't have raised eyebrows to collusion? And you think Kraft would take that?
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In comment 15228612 Chris in Philly said:
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Ah, so now you think the expansion of revenue opportunities for the rest of the league is a defining factor for a successful NFL owner (a position you assuredly didn't care about before)? It's almost as if you just move the goalposts and change the context of the argument so that you can always be right. Kind of like how you disappeared from BBI when the team was winning Super Bowls and then shamelessly slunk back at the first sight of trouble afterwards...
No, but I think a guy like Jones thinks more out of the box than a guy like Mara because of his life experiences. What have Mara's struggles been? Picking the next GM?
This is the same family, the Maras, who were literally saved by the NFL. So let's not act like we are dealing with innovators here...
You are so right. Jerry Jones's inspiring tale of struggle when he graduated college to become Executive Vice President of his father's multi-million dollar insurance company after blowing a million dollars on a pizza chain. The folk songs written about this rise still bring tears to the eyes.
Can't believe you're criticizing Jones for following the first rule of getting rich: 1. Have rich parents.
Maybe we could all learn a lesson there.
Shall we then discuss the fact that your role model Dan Snyder, clearly someone who WANTS TO WIN, also did not meet the mythical demands that BB had demanded in your head? Or that Mr. Snyder, between bouts of slapping secretaries on the ass, did not use his legendary creativity to think OUTSIDE THE BOX and get it done for BB in Washington? You must be terribly disappointed.
Welcome to the deep end. Can you at least get some new material?
Do you think if the Giants secretly knew to wait to hire a head coach until after the Superbowl and then shocked the NFL world by hiring Belichick with a deal in place that it wouldn't have raised eyebrows to collusion? And you think Kraft would take that?
Kraft's intentions (and his leverage) do not fit the narrative and can therefore be summarily dismissed.
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Shall we then discuss the fact that your role model Dan Snyder, clearly someone who WANTS TO WIN, also did not meet the mythical demands that BB had demanded in your head? Or that Mr. Snyder, between bouts of slapping secretaries on the ass, did not use his legendary creativity to think OUTSIDE THE BOX and get it done for BB in Washington? You must be terribly disappointed.
Welcome to the deep end. Can you at least get some new material?
Why would I need new material? You haven't changed in 20 years?
The league has changed enormously in the last decade, and the Giants have been unable to change with it. It isn't due to a series of unfortunate events.
The blame falls squarely on ownership.
You are so right. Jerry Jones's inspiring tale of struggle when he graduated college to become Executive Vice President of his father's multi-million dollar insurance company after blowing a million dollars on a pizza chain. The folk songs written about this rise still bring tears to the eyes.
Uh, Jones made his fortune in oil. You may want to read a bit more of all of the money he risked to do so...
.
Speaking of big asses...
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Cuban has been mostly fined for complaining about the NBA's horrible officiating. Gee, how dare he have the courage to bring that to light...
He was fined $600K alone for saying the Mavs should tank the season in 2018. He was fined $100K for trying to get Lebron to sign with the team during a TV interview.
Cuban might the only guy on the planet who complains about officiating as much you do. He’s your kind of dude. I’d have thought you’d love him.
The league has changed enormously in the last decade, and the Giants have been unable to change with it. It isn't due to a series of unfortunate events.
The blame falls squarely on ownership.
That's fine, but getting from that point (A) to a "the Giants could have had BB but they didn't succeed because they are cheap and/or don't WANT TO WIN" (B) is not a real thing.
Welcome to the deep end. Can you at least get some new material?
Why would I need new material? You haven't changed in 20 years?
Neither have you. Just keep being the lemming you are and follow the masses.
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You are so right. Jerry Jones's inspiring tale of struggle when he graduated college to become Executive Vice President of his father's multi-million dollar insurance company after blowing a million dollars on a pizza chain. The folk songs written about this rise still bring tears to the eyes.
Uh, Jones made his fortune in oil. You may want to read a bit more of all of the money he risked to do so...
Yes BW, I know where he made his fortune. I also know where he started. Perhaps you need a refresher.
Do you think if the Giants secretly knew to wait to hire a head coach until after the Superbowl and then shocked the NFL world by hiring Belichick with a deal in place that it wouldn't have raised eyebrows to collusion? And you think Kraft would take that?
Where are you going with this? Colluding to what?
Or, in the case of bw - any owner not named Mara, who has only lucked into more Championships some of those out of the box great haven't come close to matching.
I wasn't around then, but I wonder if it isn't all that different from Wellington Mara back in the '60s and '70s.
That's fine, but getting from that point (A) to a "the Giants could have had BB but they didn't succeed because they are cheap and/or don't WANT TO WIN" (B) is not a real thing.
I'm sure Mara wants to win. But he really doesn't know how to win anymore. If he did, he certainly wouldn't have hired Accorsi to hire Gettleman.
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Welcome to the deep end. Can you at least get some new material?
Why would I need new material? You haven't changed in 20 years?
Neither have you. Just keep being the lemming you are and follow the masses.
Ooh, that's a good one. That will sure leave a mark!
🙄
Or, in the case of bw - any owner not named Mara, who has only lucked into more Championships some of those out of the box great haven't come close to matching.
The point is I think those guys would do anything to win. And if it required an equity stake to secure a legend like BB, my guess is they would probably do it.
Obviously they don't always get it right. But they seems much more willing to change and be malleable with the times than John Mara...
I actually like Jerry. He took a lot of risks in life. He also was a 175 RG on a Nat'l Champ. team which says a lot about him imv in a good way. Never understood all the crap he gets either.
I have seen nothing to suggest these guys are willing to give up equity in their companies to win a title. What am I missing here?
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Cuban just fine. Not seeing the correlation to him being an owner we should be emulating though. Or Jerry Jones. Or Daniel Snyder.
Or, in the case of bw - any owner not named Mara, who has only lucked into more Championships some of those out of the box great haven't come close to matching.
The point is I think those guys would do anything to win. And if it required an equity stake to secure a legend like BB, my guess is they would probably do it.
Obviously they don't always get it right. But they seems much more willing to change and be malleable with the times than John Mara...
So then why didn’t they do it? Why isn’t BB coaching Miami or WFT with an equity stake in one of those teams? Go ahead, please explain it. He was available. He allegedly spoke to three teams. Mara simply won’t do anything to win in your troll world. Okay. So why is not coaching Miami or Washington?
Equity stake day-dreams aside, BB is not coaching those teams because they must not have gotten to an acceptable offer. Do you know otherwise?
My answer would be that it's likely all three owners...Snyder, Ross, and Mara...were unwilling to pay Belichick's ask AND hand over complete control of the football operations. JonC said it above: you bring Belichick in and he becomes the franchise...you have to throw out the way you do things.
We know a lot already about what type of people Snyder and Ross are. And we know Mara has populated the organization with his friends and family - you think Chris Mara gets to keep his job and go to the Kentucky Derby during the draft if Belichick is head of football operations?
I'm going to repeat that last part: the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel, who is also the owner's brother, went to the Kentucky Derby during the NFL Draft.
Hiring Belichick would upset that.
Its because the answer is obvious, and answering honestly would throw a big wrench into the narrative. If I asked it to anyone I know that follows football I bet I get the same answer from all of them.
This is one of the more ridiculous discussions as of late.
So then why didn’t they do it? Why isn’t BB coaching Miami or WFT with an equity stake in one of those teams? Go ahead, please explain it. He was available. He allegedly spoke to three teams. Mara simply won’t do anything to win in your troll world. Okay. So why is not coaching Miami or Washington?
I really don't know. Maybe it was as simple as BB really only wanted on spot to cap his career with NYG. He has always admitted he was fond of the organization and had a soft spot. So no other competitor could appeal to that emotion...maybe?
I have seen nothing to suggest these guys are willing to give up equity in their companies to win a title. What am I missing here?
Maybe they did and BB just wasn't keen on working for those guy. Maybe they didn't want to fork over complete control of all football decisions...but were fine with equity. Maybe BB was using those teams to leverage the Pats AND NYG.
I can only guess.
But if I'm Mara and BB is available, and has used back channels to communicate his interest, I'm going all out to create a package to sign him.
It's not a small tidbit of information. It's being reported that Belichick talked to three teams in 2017. JonC is one of our best insiders - he's corroborating this and going a step further sharing that Belichick has twice talked to the Giants since Coughlin was on his way out.
That information is being looked at in the context of 2015-2017 being a complete disaster: McAdoo, Gettleman, Shurmur. It is further being looked at in the context of the Giants being 48-80 since the end of the 2012 season.
We all as Giants fans have been through 8 years of terrible, embarrassing football. Many of us want to know why that is.
How much are the Giants worth anyway? About 4.5 billion, and going up every year? What’s 3% of that? Anybody know?
Feel what way? An affinity for NYG?
Well, this is where he established his name and was a significant part of building the first two SBs. An almost-dynasty in you ask me...
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based on a very small tidbit of information, and even the information is inconclusive, but the entire thread has shifted back to Mara is an incompetent owner.
It's not a small tidbit of information. It's being reported that Belichick talked to three teams in 2017. JonC is one of our best insiders - he's corroborating this and going a step further sharing that Belichick has twice talked to the Giants since Coughlin was on his way out.
That information is being looked at in the context of 2015-2017 being a complete disaster: McAdoo, Gettleman, Shurmur. It is further being looked at in the context of the Giants being 48-80 since the end of the 2012 season.
We all as Giants fans have been through 8 years of terrible, embarrassing football. Many of us want to know why that is.
It actually is simple and completely unrealted to BB. Reese and Ross were kept on far too long in their roles and Coughlin got too long in the tooth especially when the NFL was changing around him and the OL play faltered. Plenty of successful coaches have lost locker rooms and teams needed to move on. Andy Reid's message stopped getting through in Philly so they went in a different direction.
48-80. Bizarro world indeed.
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In comment 15228292 Eric from BBI said:
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Perhaps.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
bump
+2
bumped again...
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To my point I made. Why does BB feel that way? As many others have also said over many, many years. Why is that?
Feel what way? An affinity for NYG?
Well, this is where he established his name and was a significant part of building the first two SBs. An almost-dynasty in you ask me...
I guess I always took BB as a little bit of a historian.......and they had just a little both before and after he was here.
That's not the correct summary. The question was would Mara be willing to give BB equity if asked. In my dialogue with UConn, I said Mara should have absolutely gone that route if asked. UConn said Mara shouldn't have done it for the reasons he outlined.
If it is.
Mara is stupid.
I don't know what else to say.
We would already be winning and all us know that unless we are choosing to be willfully ignorant.
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In comment 15228397 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15228292 Eric from BBI said:
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Perhaps.
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
bump
+2
bumped again...
You, and others, complete a complete FANTASY, completely fictional scenario based off a single sentence and you have the nerve to call others delusional?
That's hilarious.
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In comment 15228644 Chris in Philly said:
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Shall we then discuss the fact that your role model Dan Snyder, clearly someone who WANTS TO WIN, also did not meet the mythical demands that BB had demanded in your head? Or that Mr. Snyder, between bouts of slapping secretaries on the ass, did not use his legendary creativity to think OUTSIDE THE BOX and get it done for BB in Washington? You must be terribly disappointed.
Welcome to the deep end. Can you at least get some new material?
Why would I need new material? You haven't changed in 20 years?
We were out one night having drinks and I think he said he might return only if Mara sells... ;)
But I think you don't want to contemplate the reality of the situation.
bump
+2
bumped again...
You, and others, complete a complete FANTASY, completely fictional scenario based off a single sentence and you have the nerve to call others delusional?
That's hilarious. [/quote]
What fantasy did Eric, JonC and I create related to reports that BB had actual real conversations with the Giants?
And where did anyone call you delusional?
48-80. Bizarro world indeed.
John Mara's job performance has nothing to do with this thread.
If Bill Belichick wanted to be here, he would be here. You can think John Mara is an incompetent owner, that's fine. But if Bill Belichick really wanted to be here, he would. He has that stroke. And if you want to call Mara emotional and accuse him of nepotism, wouldn't that imply that he'd want to bring Belichick home at all costs? Just like he wanted to win for Eli at all costs?
Again, if Bill Belichick wanted to be here, or anywhere, he would be.
He's still in New England.
We were out one night having drinks and I think he said he might return only if Mara sells... ;)
I may have missed your response when I asked the first time.
You asked why Belichick isn't here. That's my answer. I think Belichick would be here if Mara wanted him to be.
You asked why Belichick isn't here. That's my answer. I think Belichick would be here if Mara wanted him to be.
Pretty good points here.
Kraft has four sons but he's smart enough not to have them in positions to make football decisions. Belichick has built that entire football decision making infrastructure.
Nepotism and football is nothing new. Look at Belichick’s staff. I don’t know how much Chris Mara actually does.
I don’t believe John Mara said no to Belichick because of the front office structure. Maybe he did because of money though, idk. I’d like to think if there was an opportunity, it would have happened. Likely, I think Belichick didn’t want to ultimately leave NE and deal with a full rebuild at his age. Thus, he stayed with NE and won another Super Bowl with Brady.
Nepotism and football is nothing new. Look at Belichick’s staff. I don’t know how much Chris Mara actually does.
I don’t believe John Mara said no to Belichick because of the front office structure. Maybe he did because of money though, idk. I’d like to think if there was an opportunity, it would have happened. Likely, I think Belichick didn’t want to ultimately leave NE and deal with a full rebuild at his age. Thus, he stayed with NE and won another Super Bowl with Brady.
Don’t let facts get in the way of Terps and bw football conspiracy theories.
All this hand-wringing over BB coming here at age 67 without Brady and a roster completely in transition.
Again, I know we had to get through Shurmur to find him, but I’ll take my chances with Judge. If I had to get I’d say Judge makes the 10 year mark as NYG head coach, at least.
Also, outside of New England and Pittsburgh, where are you finding better ownership in the NFL than right here?
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Bringing in Belichick probably destroys Mara's ability to keep his brother as the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel, as well as endangering the other jobs that have been doled out to family and friends. Belichick blows up the way Mara does things.
You asked why Belichick isn't here. That's my answer. I think Belichick would be here if Mara wanted him to be.
Pretty good points here.
Kraft has four sons but he's smart enough not to have them in positions to make football decisions. Belichick has built that entire football decision making infrastructure.
The franchise hired Kyle O’Brien to be apart of the front office with previous NE ties.
There are things to be excited about. There definitely appears to be a change since Judge was hired. So I don’t see the point in continuously bringing up 2013-2018.
Also, I like John Mara. I’ll say this, I’ll take him over the other three owners in this division. I say that with no hesitancy either. Has he been overly loyal? Yes. But, he has won. Twice. That should not be discounted.
Guys like Steve Cohen or David Tepper get a ton of credit as owners because they have deep pockets, but let’s see if either ever wins anything.
Nepotism and football is nothing new. Look at Belichick’s staff. I don’t know how much Chris Mara actually does.
I don’t believe John Mara said no to Belichick because of the front office structure. Maybe he did because of money though, idk. I’d like to think if there was an opportunity, it would have happened. Likely, I think Belichick didn’t want to ultimately leave NE and deal with a full rebuild at his age. Thus, he stayed with NE and won another Super Bowl with Brady.
FYI.
Belichick was part owner of Eight Rings who ran in the Preakness. Mara was a minority owner in Triple Crown winner Justify.
Parcells, btw, is a huge horse owner as well. Big highlight for me was meeting him at the Spa a few times.
(Been a huge horse racing fan for 25+ years...)
Nepotism and football is nothing new. Look at Belichick’s staff. I don’t know how much Chris Mara actually does.
I don’t believe John Mara said no to Belichick because of the front office structure. Maybe he did because of money though, idk. I’d like to think if there was an opportunity, it would have happened. Likely, I think Belichick didn’t want to ultimately leave NE and deal with a full rebuild at his age. Thus, he stayed with NE and won another Super Bowl with Brady.
I don't think that is an unfair criticism of BB with Stephen and Brian B. But I think if anyone has earned the right to bring in his sons into the coaching ranks, it's BB.
Do you honestly think Mara would be comfortable giving BB full decision making rights?
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In comment 15228777 Go Terps said:
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Bringing in Belichick probably destroys Mara's ability to keep his brother as the Senior Vice President of Player Personnel, as well as endangering the other jobs that have been doled out to family and friends. Belichick blows up the way Mara does things.
You asked why Belichick isn't here. That's my answer. I think Belichick would be here if Mara wanted him to be.
Pretty good points here.
Kraft has four sons but he's smart enough not to have them in positions to make football decisions. Belichick has built that entire football decision making infrastructure.
urban legend. No foundation in fact but fits your and Terps bias so it makes perfect sense to you.
Bias? Against what? Shitty football? Guilty as charged. 8 years running.
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So then why didn’t they do it? Why isn’t BB coaching Miami or WFT with an equity stake in one of those teams? Go ahead, please explain it. He was available. He allegedly spoke to three teams. Mara simply won’t do anything to win in your troll world. Okay. So why is not coaching Miami or Washington?
I really don't know. Maybe it was as simple as BB really only wanted on spot to cap his career with NYG. He has always admitted he was fond of the organization and had a soft spot. So no other competitor could appeal to that emotion...maybe?
You can just stop at “I don’t know”. If you would like to add “I just like throwing out wild conjecture based on absolutely nothing other than my imagination”, by all means please do so. But just so we’re clear here that is exactly what you are doing. You are ascribing motive to persons in an imaginary negotiation while not doing so to others. Your double standard and imagination are getting lazy in your old age.
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In comment 15228704 Chris in Philly said:
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So then why didn’t they do it? Why isn’t BB coaching Miami or WFT with an equity stake in one of those teams? Go ahead, please explain it. He was available. He allegedly spoke to three teams. Mara simply won’t do anything to win in your troll world. Okay. So why is not coaching Miami or Washington?
I really don't know. Maybe it was as simple as BB really only wanted on spot to cap his career with NYG. He has always admitted he was fond of the organization and had a soft spot. So no other competitor could appeal to that emotion...maybe?
You can just stop at “I don’t know”. If you would like to add “I just like throwing out wild conjecture based on absolutely nothing other than my imagination”, by all means please do so. But just so we’re clear here that is exactly what you are doing. You are ascribing motive to persons in an imaginary negotiation while not doing so to others. Your double standard and imagination are getting lazy in your old age.
It's pretty clear I'm surmising. I said I don't know and made some guesses. Welcome to Earth.
Why that would cause such a inane reaction is, unfortunately, par for the course.