The draft chat starts at 1:30PM and runs about 90 minutes.
Colin is a huge Giants fan and long-time friend of BBI. For years, he has participated in these annual pre-draft chats to answer fan questions. Colin's website, the Great Blue North Draft Report, is linked below.
Please post your questions here and Colin will try his best to answer them.
Great Blue North Draft Report - (
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What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?
Which player in this draft would have immediate (or quickest) impact as an NFL pass rusher?
Do you think there is too much concern about Davonta Smith's lean frame?
What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?
Took the words right outta my mouth.
Should the Giants be looking for another tight end for Kyle Rudolph to tutor if Evan Engram does not prove to be an asset?
Also, Azeez Ojulari is a guy I like a lot and could see being a very good pro and like Yannick Nkogue. Many see him as one trick pony but I see a young guy who is only gonna get better. What are your thoughts on him?
Thank you for your time!
Since neither Paul nor I are very good typists we hope everyone will be patient. We’d also appreciate it if you spaced your questions out. We will endeavor to answer every question this afternoon so there is no need to have to push to get to the head of the line. In fact, you may get a more detailed answer if you wait until it slows down a little deeper into the chat. Thanks!
The final note is that I did post some general thoughts on the Giants draft over on my own site which people my want to take a look at as it may answer some basic questions etc.
What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?
Hi gidie: The existential question for the Giants if in fact upgrading the pass rush their #1 priority. It appears that there are 5-6 good ER prospects with 1st round potential. They all have some strengths but they each all have issues. Overall there is a lot of real physical talent there but not always the productivity. How the Giants have them rated is anybody's guess. Paye seems to be the highest rated and the closest to being a value pick at #11.; he's also maybe the safest. On the other hand I would think Oweh and Phillips have the most upside. There are also some potential ERs in the second round like Tyron but it appears there is a major dropoff to the 2nd such that if the Giants don't get a guy in Rd 1 they are more than likely to try and trade back up into the late part of the first round for one.
Same question, but 3 years from now? Trying to understand which players you think will grow the most with this.
I very much appreciate the time you spend on this board. Time is the most valuable thing we all have and I recognize your contributions in that regard.
It matters.
We think the Giants will be looking to add a RB at some point in this draft, and ideally that would be in the later rounds. What players do you think would be a fit for the Giants later in the draft?
Do you think any of these might fit that need?
Jermar Jefferson Oregon St
Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
Chris Evans, Michigan
Which player in this draft would have immediate (or quickest) impact as an NFL pass rusher?
Do you think there is too much concern about Davonta Smith's lean frame?
I think Parsons off-field stuff is overrated. the kid can play. The issue for him with the Giants is position fit. I think Phillips might be the quickest to adjust to the NFL at ER. And people are right to be a little concerned about Smith's size but I think fans get hung up on what's wrong with a player whereas teams focus on what he brings to the team and Smith is the most explosive player I think I have even scouted. Take him!!!
1) There will be teams looking to move up
2) Next year's possible tighter cap might mean a more concentrated effort this year on getting more players in (like maybe even willing to use a future 2 or even 1) to get back into the 1st rd here.
I think versatility and play making is the key.
Do you really buy the Giants having Smith rated so much above Waddle or is it closer than some people might think?
Secondly, what are your thoughts on Aaron Banks and Trey Smith as Guard targets for the Gmen?
As a scout, what do you look for in an OT that would give you confidence they could make that transition smoothly, other than just being big and strong?
My question is simple. In light of the shorten post-season for college football this year, how are you grading players from smaller schools or lesser divisions who didn't get the chance to showcase their abilities at bowl games and the usual post-season circuit? To me, level of completion can distort game tapes more than a funhouse mirror.
I noticed that you ranked Jayson Oweh ahead of Azeez Ojulari on your Big Board. Oweh feels very boom/bust, but his athleticism is obviously crazy. How would you rank Oweh's ceiling/potential vs. the other defensive players in this draft, especially vs. Ojulari?
Also, I'd love to get your thoughts on Slater vs. Vera-Tucker and notable differences between the two. Slater seems to be getting slightly more love, but AVT isn't very far back on most big boards and has his share of supporters.
Thanks again!
Davidson is extremely raw but he has a huge upside plus he can punt in the event of an injury to the primary punter. Eubanks was underused in college and I think that he will go on to become a solid starting TE in the NFL.
Great question Rick. We tend to focus on the first round but in many ways the second round is also crazy talented at several positions including WR, CB and the OL. Of course, who is available to the Giants at say 42 will depend on who gets taken ahead of them but you could be looking at guys like Rashod Bateman, Rondale Moore, and Eli Moore, while at OG/C you could have players like Leatherwood, Creed Humphrey, Quinn Meinerz, and Landon Dickenson. My own personal suspicion though is that the Giants could actually be looking at CB in the 2nd where you might have guys like Asante Samuel, Tyson Campbell, Kelvin Joseph and Aaron Robinson. Should be a fun second day!!
Have you heard any of the NFL guys mention arm length when discussing the tackle class (besides the obvious tackle to guard conversions) or is this focus on arm length a media concern only?
I think Horn is close to being a top 10 talent ad I suspect would be in the Giants top tier at that point. I do not believe though that the Giants are necessarily looking at CBs in the first. I think the second is far more likely.
This draft is really deep along the interior offensive line and that is where I think the Giants will target an OG icluding aaron Brooks, Trey Smith, Ben Cleveland and maybe Jackson Carman (who's an OT but figures to kick inside). If I had to choose one it would be Smith who gives you that additional value of being able to kick outside to provide some additional depth at OT.
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in this draft. I think we all have a good sense of the WRs and Olineman.
What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?
Took the words right outta my mouth.
Should the Giants be looking for another tight end for Kyle Rudolph to tutor if Evan Engram does not prove to be an asset?
Its not a great year for TEs but one would think the Giants would almost certainly go there on the 3rd day if they move Engram. My sense though is that the only scenario where they do that is if they somehow come up with Pitts which is extremely doubtful.
Jim: Certainly what we're hearing is that the Giants will take Smith i a heartbeat if he's there. If not they'll be looking ER but likely with a trade down as I doubt they have any of the top ERs on the same tier as guys like Parsons and Slater.
Look forward to listening to the chat!
Also, Azeez Ojulari is a guy I like a lot and could see being a very good pro and like Yannick Nkogue. Many see him as one trick pony but I see a young guy who is only gonna get better. What are your thoughts on him?
Thank you for your time!
Ryan: I really like Parsons and he would be the one guy I would have trouble passing on at #11 even if the Giants worked a trade down. He's just a disruptive playmaker and while I am not sure he's a great scheme fit, he's one of those impact player types you put on the field an make the scheme fit what he does!!
Ojulari is a really interesting guy and we have heard from some sources (though not all) that the Giants like him. He's got scheme fit issues too though. He's not as big as the other top 5-6 ERs candidates and while the Giants are nominally a 3-4 team - and he's a perfect fit as a 3-4 OLB - they actually play as many as 65-70% of their defensive snaps in a 4-2 when opponents go with multiple receiver set and that means your OLBs have to move up to DE and he may be a little undersized for that.
Mike: The players in the second day are never as good as the first round guys and the guys the Giants are likely to get looks at at #11 are all really good prospects. However, there is really good depth at WR in the second round and the OL in the third
It's kind of like how many OGs ca you fit on the top of a pin. The simple answer to your question would be edge, WR, OL. But its not really how teams draft. You take the best you can at your top priority when you can and then work your way down.
2 part question.
Are Edges really high on Giants draft boards maybe over WR like Smith/Waddle or OT like Slater? Do you see a trade down if Smith/Waddle/ Slater are available or would they take the BPA if they have the chance and not force EDGE even if via trade down?
Same question, but 3 years from now? Trying to understand which players you think will grow the most with this.
I very much appreciate the time you spend on this board. Time is the most valuable thing we all have and I recognize your contributions in that regard.
It matters.
Tough question. The one guy that kind of breaks my heart a bit is Justin Jefferson. last we kept saying through the process that 'nobody should be surprised if in the end JJ is the first WR off the board this year (2020)' He wasn't but he was the best rookie out there. And just to be clear we've missed on more than our share too1'
At the same time if I knew which guys would be great in 3 years I'd be making millions from an NFL team somewhere. Otherwise I'd really just be guessing.
We think the Giants will be looking to add a RB at some point in this draft, and ideally that would be in the later rounds. What players do you think would be a fit for the Giants later in the draft?
Do you think any of these might fit that need?
Jermar Jefferson Oregon St
Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
Chris Evans, Michigan
Absolutely! You really need 3-4 decent backs these days because those guys get beaten up and I could see the Giants grabbing some depth there in the 4-5 round area. The guys you mention are all good. I'd also thrown in Javonte Williams and Michael Carter from UNC, Kenneth Gainwell, and even Chubba Hubbard who ran for over 2,000 yards a couple of years ago at okie State. But there are a lot of good second, third tier backs this year.
1) There will be teams looking to move up
2) Next year's possible tighter cap might mean a more concentrated effort this year on getting more players in (like maybe even willing to use a future 2 or even 1) to get back into the 1st rd here.
I think versatility and play making is the key.
Do you really buy the Giants having Smith rated so much above Waddle or is it closer than some people might think?
Secondly, what are your thoughts on Aaron Banks and Trey Smith as Guard targets for the Gmen?
Thanks jv; we try. Hard to know about Smith, Waddle. We have heard from people that the Giants receiver wish list is Pitts and Smith but we have heard from others that Waddle is o it too! We have also heard that more that one team around the league has Waddle rated higher than Smith. Its one of those things we maybe find out on the 29th.
Both those OGs are solid prospects. We like Smith better as he is a one-time LT who is a very good pass blocker whereas banks isn't as athletic but is a little more physical at the POA.
It seems Paye is more versatile and more "coachable"
What have you heard and what do you think the Giants would do regarding these two ? Do you think Philiips is even in play at 11 ? and how do you think the Giants have these two ranked against each other ?
Thanks again !
As a scout, what do you look for in an OT that would give you confidence they could make that transition smoothly, other than just being big and strong?
You figure most OTs should be able to shift inside but the one variable we look for is bend. Can the guy bend at the knees and keep his pads low. If he can't he's a RT. For both we are also looking for quiet feet. Is his back pedal smooth or choppy and mechanical.
My question is simple. In light of the shorten post-season for college football this year, how are you grading players from smaller schools or lesser divisions who didn't get the chance to showcase their abilities at bowl games and the usual post-season circuit? To me, level of completion can distort game tapes more than a funhouse mirror.
No question its more complicated this year. There is still plenty of tape from last year and we did have the Senior Bowl this year. You just work as best as you can with the game tape you do have.
I noticed that you ranked Jayson Oweh ahead of Azeez Ojulari on your Big Board. Oweh feels very boom/bust, but his athleticism is obviously crazy. How would you rank Oweh's ceiling/potential vs. the other defensive players in this draft, especially vs. Ojulari?
Also, I'd love to get your thoughts on Slater vs. Vera-Tucker and notable differences between the two. Slater seems to be getting slightly more love, but AVT isn't very far back on most big boards and has his share of supporters.
Thanks again!
Another tough question. We keep hearing whispers that the Giants really like Oweh's upside which is through the roof although you worry about those 0 sacks this past season. Ojulari also has considerable upside but I think that Oweh who is bigger and longer might be a better fit for the kind of versatility that the Giants seem to be asking of their ERs these days.
Re the OGs they are both very good prospects although I see Slater as still a level ahead of AVT who is a G first in the NFL. Slater is just more athletic and is better suited to OT but only time will tell.
What kind of grade do you put on Trey Lance? He only had one season, albeit dominant, against lower level competition. And what are some NFL comps for him? Thanks.
Also what do you think of Meinerz and Chazz Surate
Again tough call that if I could make better than a blind monkey throwing darts at a moving dart board I'd be making a fortune from the NFL. But I'll play. Three guys who maybe are more second day sleepers: UCF DE Milto Williams - 285-pounder with 4.6 type speed; Oklahoma State WR Tykan Wallace who was arguably the best receiver in college football a couple of years back before hurting a knee and Cenral Arkansas CB Robert Rochell. Give me a call in 3 years!!
Have you heard any of the NFL guys mention arm length when discussing the tackle class (besides the obvious tackle to guard conversions) or is this focus on arm length a media concern only?
Good question: It is something teams care about. At the same time its the kind of thing that a guy with long arms gets extra credit whereas I don't think shorter arm people are penalized as much unless their arms are really short.
Jayson Oweh
Joe Tryon
Joseph Ossai
Ronnie Perkins
Also, why does TJ Vasher get no love? He's a better player than Antoine Wesley was.
1. Who would you draft at 11 if you stay at 11?
2. What would be the minimum offer you would take for the 11th pick?
Great info......thanks so much
Good question: Have not heard that they have but its not really the kind of thing that one would normally hear much about. Hard to imagine they wouldn't want some kind of legit competition for Dixon at least this year, bt it really isn't a great year for Ps. Maybe take a 6th round flyer on james Smith of Cincinnati.
Look forward to listening to the chat!
Jimmy: I think we are 0 for three. No actually we had Thomas last year but very very late in the process. Normally though I don't predict as that's for gypsies. We just try and figure out what the Giants are thinking which is never easy. Just for fun though I will make a prediction for this year: The Giants trade the 11th pick to Miami for the 18th pick this year as well as thirds this year and next. Miami selects Slater at #11, the Giants select Oweh at #18. There you go!!
Based on talent, athleticism and the Giants depth charts I will take PARSONS.
Pigskin
I suspect he might be in the mix. He's certainly a guy you hear people talking about as potentially going higher than he's rated. What the Giants do though will depend on what they want to do. And I have the feeling that the Giants would take Smith at #11 if he's there because he's just such a good prospect, but they did a lot on the skill positions in free agency and may not necessarily be looking to add another WR for the sake of it. My ow sense is that CB or even another DL or ER could be a more likely option although again there will be some really really good options at a number of positions in rd 2.
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been looking at any of the kickers/punters as late round or Free Agent targets after the draft?
I think BORREGALES is best, followed by McPHERSON/FLORIDA. Both might be late choices.
Pigskin
Good question: Have not heard that they have but its not really the kind of thing that one would normally hear much about. Hard to imagine they wouldn't want some kind of legit competition for Dixon at least this year, bt it really isn't a great year for Ps. Maybe take a 6th round flyer on james Smith of Cincinnati.
I would think guys like the Moores - RonDale and/or Eli - would be great fits in that regard, although I don't think the Giants are focused on Smith for his position fit; he's simply a great player/prospect.
Thanks Gentleman!
Also what do you think of Meinerz and Chazz Surate
Pigskin
Is it possible he gets selected at the end of the first round by the Saints or early second round by the Falcons.
Thanks Gentleman!
I like the versatility of JACKSON from Duke in Round 7 or UFA
Pigskin
2 part question.
Are Edges really high on Giants draft boards maybe over WR like Smith/Waddle or OT like Slater? Do you see a trade down if Smith/Waddle/ Slater are available or would they take the BPA if they have the chance and not force EDGE even if via trade down?
1st part: No. It's not clear any of the ERs are in the same tier as the Waddles, Parsons or Slaters of the world.
And yes if that is the direction they want go they may have to trade down. The other thing we don't know if the Giants have the top 5-6 in tiers or whether they simply want get at least one of this year's top guys.
The thing that I haven't mentioned is that I believe the ER is more part of a process of building a pass rush unit rather than just adding a guy to play LDE or whatever. I suspect they'll be going back to the area several times over the next few years looking for different body types that can contribute in different ways so position fit may not be that defining an issue this year. if that makes sense.
Is it possible he gets selected at the end of the first round by the Saints or early second round by the Falcons.
He has been rising way too fast IMO. He has the size and arm to handle the NFL. But, I am not convinced about the heart beating in his chest. I was also disgusted watching the Stanford/Cal game when he failed to read changes the Cal coverages and threw 3 Picks by the end of the 3rd Quarter.
Pigskin
It seems Paye is more versatile and more "coachable"
What have you heard and what do you think the Giants would do regarding these two ? Do you think Philiips is even in play at 11 ? and how do you think the Giants have these two ranked against each other ?
Thanks again !
We've heard they like Paye; we've heard they like Ojualri, we've heard they like Oweh. haven't heard much about Phillips or Rousseau but remember it was Judge who went to their pro day and his didn't go there because UM puts on a good spread. Again its one of those things that we probably won't know for sure until the 29th.
So much depends on what the 49ers do. If they take Jones you can probably take it to the bank all 5 will go top ten. On the other hand, if the 49ers take Lance or Fields there is a better than even chance Jones could still be there at #11. I just doubt that NE trades up to 11. If the Patriots do really want a QB they're not waiting until #11. However, if Jones were there I could see a deal with Chicago as a real possibility. Be nice. But as a I said even if the QBs are gone I think the Giants will have plenty of trade down opportunities given the quality of players who ARE going to be there at #11.
Jayson Oweh
Joe Tryon
Joseph Ossai
Ronnie Perkins
Also, why does TJ Vasher get no love? He's a better player than Antoine Wesley was.
Simply put based on what we are hearing Oweh is very much in the first round debate. The other three are second round candidates although all three are good prospects in their own right just maybe not quite as good as the top guys.
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in Rd 1 over the the last several years?
Look forward to listening to the chat!
Jimmy: I think we are 0 for three. No actually we had Thomas last year but very very late in the process. Normally though I don't predict as that's for gypsies. We just try and figure out what the Giants are thinking which is never easy. Just for fun though I will make a prediction for this year: The Giants trade the 11th pick to Miami for the 18th pick this year as well as thirds this year and next. Miami selects Slater at #11, the Giants select Oweh at #18. There you go!!
Uhg, I hope you go 0 for four.
:-)
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It seems he is the most talented and explosive edge rusher in the draft with the obvious questions his concussions and retiring from the game in 2018.
PHILLIUPS is getting scarier by the day with unanswered medical concerns. ROUSSEAU could be the next JPP or Clowney, but he has not much more game tape than LANCE @ QB. I do istill have both ranked as Top 25 prospects, but I have seen guys slip a long way because of medical concerns.
Pigskin
It seems Paye is more versatile and more "coachable"
What have you heard and what do you think the Giants would do regarding these two ? Do you think Philiips is even in play at 11 ? and how do you think the Giants have these two ranked against each other ?
Thanks again !
We've heard they like Paye; we've heard they like Ojualri, we've heard they like Oweh. haven't heard much about Phillips or Rousseau but remember it was Judge who went to their pro day and his didn't go there because UM puts on a good spread. Again its one of those things that we probably won't know for sure until the 29th.
Donnie: I think I answered this above sort of. Parsons is a terrific player but where does he fit when you are in a 4-2. He's probably too small to play the edge so he becomes a MLB. And he can make plays from there so it will depend on what the Giants think of him. I'll let you know on the 11th. I do ask if you are prepared to tarde back up into the first round if Smith were there at #11 could you not trade back up in the same vein if you took Parsons at #11. As I say time will tell.
Angel: We like Basham here; he's got imteresting size and you could do a lot of things with him. I suspect he'll be in the 2nd round conversation whether the Giants get an ER in 1 or not.
Pigskin
Jim: The one guy who does seem to be dropping is Greg Rousseau who didn't test as well as the other DE/ER prospects. Good for us!
Pigskin
Thoughts?
Pigskin
Thanks, Paul
Also what do you think of Meinerz and Chazz Surate
I can only dream. And I don't normally like to say what I would do because nobody should care. However, since you asked if it were me I would take Waddle or Parsons at #11 and then trade back into the first round to hopefully get either Rousseau or Phillips. That would cost me a couple of third day picks but leave me enough to add a developmental OG.
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at 11, Smith, Slater, Parsons are on the board.
Based on talent, athleticism and the Giants depth charts I will take PARSONS.
Pigskin
Hey great Pigskin is here!!!
I am not sure what the orginal question is but if its Smith, Parsons or Slater its Smith in a heartbeat, Parsons two. The Giants are not taking an OG 'just in case' type player with a top ten pick!
Really interesting ? Bill. In fact because the position is so important I'd be taking a QB in the first three rounds every year!! However, I think the Giants only take a QB this year if there is a guy they really like say if Trask were still there in the 4th round. This year is about Jones and if he flames out you start over next year.
King: He's a relly nice player but more LB than ER. I think this year the Giants really want someone who can come in and get you you 10-12 sacks a year to take some of the pressure off Leo Williams and put it one opposing QBs and I don't see Z Collins as necessarily that type of player.
Thanks a bunch Colin...always my favorite thread of the offseason!!!
Thank you Colin and Paul!
As always, excellent job!
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what is your feeling on a team whose (so far) has settled on their QB, routinely taking a low to mid-round QB in each draft? Of course, for the Giants, we are down a pick but we do have 2 6ths. Is that a waste of resources and, if not, would you have a name?
Really interesting ? Bill. In fact because the position is so important I'd be taking a QB in the first three rounds every year!! However, I think the Giants only take a QB this year if there is a guy they really like say if Trask were still there in the 4th round. This year is about Jones and if he flames out you start over next year.
I think that this is one area where bw and I agree.
Much appreciated Colin and good job.
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Would Carlos Basham be a viable option for the Giants in the 2nd or 3rd round? He seems like a guy who can play the run and rush the passer, with a high motor, and can line up all over the line from DT to OLB.
Angel: We like Basham here; he's got imteresting size and you could do a lot of things with him. I suspect he'll be in the 2nd round conversation whether the Giants get an ER in 1 or not.
I prefer Basham value wise over the round 1 guys. Performed well at the Senior Bowl too.
With Smith and Parsons there, that will be a tense few minutes for sure.
Loved it.
Thanks for organizing this.