BBI Draft Chat with Colin of Great Blue North Draft Report

in this draft. I think we all have a good sense of the WRs and Olineman.

What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?

What do you think of the talk about Micah Parson's off the field issues, maturity, etc.?

Which player in this draft would have immediate (or quickest) impact as an NFL pass rusher?

Do you think there is too much concern about Davonta Smith's lean frame?

Who’s one player, you expect to be taken in rounds 4-7, who you feel will make the biggest impact over his career, that isn’t reliant on a scheme fit? Perhaps he may take a few season to develop but can surprise

Thanks for participating in the draft discussion.

We've all heard Smith, Slater, Paye... is CB even a consideration at 11? In your opinion is Jaycee Horn a top ten talent?

for dealing with tis collection of maniacs. Here's my question: who are the best three interior OL likely available in rounds three and four that the Giants might target?

In comment 15229897 gidiefor said:

Quote:

in this draft. I think we all have a good sense of the WRs and Olineman. What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?

Took the words right outta my mouth.

Should the Giants be looking for another tight end for Kyle Rudolph to tutor if Evan Engram does not prove to be an asset?

Some feel that Devonta Smith will be the Giants’ pick if he makes it to 11 and if not, they’ll go ER. Do you agree and if not, what’s your best guess at this point?

I see him as a front 7 nasty, speedy playmaker. How do you view him in the Giants multiple hybrid scheme.

Also, Azeez Ojulari is a guy I like a lot and could see being a very good pro and like Yannick Nkogue. Many see him as one trick pony but I see a young guy who is only gonna get better. What are your thoughts on him?

Thank you for your time!

Afternoon guys: Just a week to go!! I am hoping to be joined by my GBN colleague Pigskin Paul Guillemette, player analyst extraordinaire and all-around good guy. As much as possible Paul will be answering questions about individual players and I will be responding to general draft questions as well as what the Giants may or may not do next week.

Since neither Paul nor I are very good typists we hope everyone will be patient. We’d also appreciate it if you spaced your questions out. We will endeavor to answer every question this afternoon so there is no need to have to push to get to the head of the line. In fact, you may get a more detailed answer if you wait until it slows down a little deeper into the chat. Thanks!

The final note is that I did post some general thoughts on the Giants draft over on my own site which people my want to take a look at as it may answer some basic questions etc.

But where do you see the depth on Days 2 & 3 that you are not losing out much at a position by holding off?

A WR, IOL and Edge walk into bar...oh sorry...what best combination is doable?

In comment 15229897 gidiefor said:

Quote:

in this draft. I think we all have a good sense of the WRs and Olineman. What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about?

Hi gidie: The existential question for the Giants if in fact upgrading the pass rush their #1 priority. It appears that there are 5-6 good ER prospects with 1st round potential. They all have some strengths but they each all have issues. Overall there is a lot of real physical talent there but not always the productivity. How the Giants have them rated is anybody's guess. Paye seems to be the highest rated and the closest to being a value pick at #11.; he's also maybe the safest. On the other hand I would think Oweh and Phillips have the most upside. There are also some potential ERs in the second round like Tyron but it appears there is a major dropoff to the 2nd such that if the Giants don't get a guy in Rd 1 they are more than likely to try and trade back up into the late part of the first round for one.

Which 3 non QBs drafted in 2020 do you believe will have the greatest impact on their 2020 teams?

Same question, but 3 years from now? Trying to understand which players you think will grow the most with this.

I very much appreciate the time you spend on this board. Time is the most valuable thing we all have and I recognize your contributions in that regard.

It matters.

Thanks!

We think the Giants will be looking to add a RB at some point in this draft, and ideally that would be in the later rounds. What players do you think would be a fit for the Giants later in the draft?

Do you think any of these might fit that need?

Jermar Jefferson Oregon St
Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana
Chris Evans, Michigan

In comment 15229901 bc4life said:

Quote:

What do you think of the talk about Micah Parson's off the field issues, maturity, etc.? Which player in this draft would have immediate (or quickest) impact as an NFL pass rusher? Do you think there is too much concern about Davonta Smith's lean frame?

I think Parsons off-field stuff is overrated. the kid can play. The issue for him with the Giants is position fit. I think Phillips might be the quickest to adjust to the NFL at ER. And people are right to be a little concerned about Smith's size but I think fans get hung up on what's wrong with a player whereas teams focus on what he brings to the team and Smith is the most explosive player I think I have even scouted. Take him!!!

and well said. I think trade down is a real possibility for two reasons:
1) There will be teams looking to move up
2) Next year's possible tighter cap might mean a more concentrated effort this year on getting more players in (like maybe even willing to use a future 2 or even 1) to get back into the 1st rd here.

I think versatility and play making is the key.

Do you really buy the Giants having Smith rated so much above Waddle or is it closer than some people might think?

Secondly, what are your thoughts on Aaron Banks and Trey Smith as Guard targets for the Gmen?

We often hear about college OT's that many say would be better suited at OG in the NFL.

As a scout, what do you look for in an OT that would give you confidence they could make that transition smoothly, other than just being big and strong?

and thank you and your colleague for taking the time to do these chats.

My question is simple. In light of the shorten post-season for college football this year, how are you grading players from smaller schools or lesser divisions who didn't get the chance to showcase their abilities at bowl games and the usual post-season circuit? To me, level of completion can distort game tapes more than a funhouse mirror.

thanks for doing this, always interested to see your responses on this annual thread.

I noticed that you ranked Jayson Oweh ahead of Azeez Ojulari on your Big Board. Oweh feels very boom/bust, but his athleticism is obviously crazy. How would you rank Oweh's ceiling/potential vs. the other defensive players in this draft, especially vs. Ojulari?

Also, I'd love to get your thoughts on Slater vs. Vera-Tucker and notable differences between the two. Slater seems to be getting slightly more love, but AVT isn't very far back on most big boards and has his share of supporters.

Thanks again!

Which round do you see TE's Kenny Yeboah, Nick Eubanks, and Zach Davidson going in the draft. Zach Davidson is my top sleeper pick for the Giants and I hope they take him with one of their 6th round picks. To be honest I wouldn't be upset if they used both picks on TE's with Nick Eubanks being the other.

Davidson is extremely raw but he has a huge upside plus he can punt in the event of an injury to the primary punter. Eubanks was underused in college and I think that he will go on to become a solid starting TE in the NFL.

I read your Giants preview linked above, and we're seeing the same landscape across the board yet again in 2021. My verdict is pick Parsons. However, if his baggage is too heavy (it sounds like he'll need a handler or more), have you heard anything specific to the Edge prospects and NYG? I'd heard they really like Paye before it hit the Internet, and also curious about Phillips and his concussions, for example. I think Ojulari is a late first rounder and don't love his game, and Rousseau's year off and lack of explosion figure to drop him. Thoughts? TIA.

Tell me which 3 players reasonably predicted in rounds 2 and 3 that have the most upside to you.

In comment 15229905 Rick in Dallas said:

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Thanks for participating in the draft discussion.

Great question Rick. We tend to focus on the first round but in many ways the second round is also crazy talented at several positions including WR, CB and the OL. Of course, who is available to the Giants at say 42 will depend on who gets taken ahead of them but you could be looking at guys like Rashod Bateman, Rondale Moore, and Eli Moore, while at OG/C you could have players like Leatherwood, Creed Humphrey, Quinn Meinerz, and Landon Dickenson. My own personal suspicion though is that the Giants could actually be looking at CB in the 2nd where you might have guys like Asante Samuel, Tyson Campbell, Kelvin Joseph and Aaron Robinson. Should be a fun second day!!

Have you heard any of the NFL guys mention arm length when discussing the tackle class (besides the obvious tackle to guard conversions) or is this focus on arm length a media concern only?

In comment 15229909 KingBlue said:

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We've all heard Smith, Slater, Paye... is CB even a consideration at 11? In your opinion is Jaycee Horn a top ten talent?

I think Horn is close to being a top 10 talent ad I suspect would be in the Giants top tier at that point. I do not believe though that the Giants are necessarily looking at CBs in the first. I think the second is far more likely.

In comment 15229914 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:

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for dealing with tis collection of maniacs. Here's my question: who are the best three interior OL likely available in rounds three and four that the Giants might target?

This draft is really deep along the interior offensive line and that is where I think the Giants will target an OG icluding aaron Brooks, Trey Smith, Ben Cleveland and maybe Jackson Carman (who's an OT but figures to kick inside). If I had to choose one it would be Smith who gives you that additional value of being able to kick outside to provide some additional depth at OT.

In comment 15229917 Angel Eyes said:

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In comment 15229897 gidiefor said: Quote: in this draft. I think we all have a good sense of the WRs and Olineman. What is your view -- which ERs do you think are a good fit with what the Giants like to do -- and is the big value in ERs in the first round only - or are there really good candidates later in the draft we should be talking about? Took the words right outta my mouth. Should the Giants be looking for another tight end for Kyle Rudolph to tutor if Evan Engram does not prove to be an asset?

Its not a great year for TEs but one would think the Giants would almost certainly go there on the 3rd day if they move Engram. My sense though is that the only scenario where they do that is if they somehow come up with Pitts which is extremely doubtful.

been looking at any of the kickers/punters as late round or Free Agent targets after the draft?

In comment 15229921 Jim in Tampa said:

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Some feel that Devonta Smith will be the Giants’ pick if he makes it to 11 and if not, they’ll go ER. Do you agree and if not, what’s your best guess at this point?

Jim: Certainly what we're hearing is that the Giants will take Smith i a heartbeat if he's there. If not they'll be looking ER but likely with a trade down as I doubt they have any of the top ERs on the same tier as guys like Parsons and Slater.

in Rd 1 over the the last several years?

Look forward to listening to the chat!

Would Mr Brown be a reach in the 2nd for the Giants? Considering they selected Parsons or Paye in the 1st. He's a smooth operator that just glides to open space imo.

In comment 15229932 Rjanyg said:

Quote:

I see him as a front 7 nasty, speedy playmaker. How do you view him in the Giants multiple hybrid scheme. Also, Azeez Ojulari is a guy I like a lot and could see being a very good pro and like Yannick Nkogue. Many see him as one trick pony but I see a young guy who is only gonna get better. What are your thoughts on him? Thank you for your time!

Ryan: I really like Parsons and he would be the one guy I would have trouble passing on at #11 even if the Giants worked a trade down. He's just a disruptive playmaker and while I am not sure he's a great scheme fit, he's one of those impact player types you put on the field an make the scheme fit what he does!!

Ojulari is a really interesting guy and we have heard from some sources (though not all) that the Giants like him. He's got scheme fit issues too though. He's not as big as the other top 5-6 ERs candidates and while the Giants are nominally a 3-4 team - and he's a perfect fit as a 3-4 OLB - they actually play as many as 65-70% of their defensive snaps in a 4-2 when opponents go with multiple receiver set and that means your OLBs have to move up to DE and he may be a little undersized for that.

Colin, thanks for your insights. Is there a wide receiver in the 2nd that would complement Golladay if we don't take Smith at 11?

Would Carlos Basham be a viable option for the Giants in the 2nd or 3rd round? He seems like a guy who can play the run and rush the passer, with a high motor, and can line up all over the line from DT to OLB.

In comment 15229935 Mike in NY said:

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But where do you see the depth on Days 2 & 3 that you are not losing out much at a position by holding off?

Mike: The players in the second day are never as good as the first round guys and the guys the Giants are likely to get looks at at #11 are all really good prospects. However, there is really good depth at WR in the second round and the OL in the third

In comment 15229936 George from PA said:

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A WR, IOL and Edge walk into bar...oh sorry...what best combination is doable?

It's kind of like how many OGs ca you fit on the top of a pin. The simple answer to your question would be edge, WR, OL. But its not really how teams draft. You take the best you can at your top priority when you can and then work your way down.

Hi Colin,
2 part question.
Are Edges really high on Giants draft boards maybe over WR like Smith/Waddle or OT like Slater? Do you see a trade down if Smith/Waddle/ Slater are available or would they take the BPA if they have the chance and not force EDGE even if via trade down?

In comment 15229942 Thegratefulhead said:

Quote:

Which 3 non QBs drafted in 2020 do you believe will have the greatest impact on their 2020 teams? Same question, but 3 years from now? Trying to understand which players you think will grow the most with this. I very much appreciate the time you spend on this board. Time is the most valuable thing we all have and I recognize your contributions in that regard. It matters.

Tough question. The one guy that kind of breaks my heart a bit is Justin Jefferson. last we kept saying through the process that 'nobody should be surprised if in the end JJ is the first WR off the board this year (2020)' He wasn't but he was the best rookie out there. And just to be clear we've missed on more than our share too1'

At the same time if I knew which guys would be great in 3 years I'd be making millions from an NFL team somewhere. Otherwise I'd really just be guessing.

good questions.

Colin and Pigskin Paul. It does sound very much that the Giants are leaning towards edge rusher, given scenarios (Smith and Pitts available) at #11. Between Parsons, who can play edge and the rest of the edge rushers, who do you think gives the biggest value and what do you think the Giants would likely lean towards? Personally, I think Parsons gives the Giants more versatile options. What do you think?

In comment 15229943 SirYesSir said:

Quote:

Thanks! We think the Giants will be looking to add a RB at some point in this draft, and ideally that would be in the later rounds. What players do you think would be a fit for the Giants later in the draft? Do you think any of these might fit that need? Jermar Jefferson Oregon St Elijah Mitchell, Louisiana Chris Evans, Michigan

Absolutely! You really need 3-4 decent backs these days because those guys get beaten up and I could see the Giants grabbing some depth there in the 4-5 round area. The guys you mention are all good. I'd also thrown in Javonte Williams and Michael Carter from UNC, Kenneth Gainwell, and even Chubba Hubbard who ran for over 2,000 yards a couple of years ago at okie State. But there are a lot of good second, third tier backs this year.

What “consensus” first RD picks are the most likely candidates to make a surprise drop into RD 2?

In comment 15229946 jvm52106 said:

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and well said. I think trade down is a real possibility for two reasons: 1) There will be teams looking to move up 2) Next year's possible tighter cap might mean a more concentrated effort this year on getting more players in (like maybe even willing to use a future 2 or even 1) to get back into the 1st rd here. I think versatility and play making is the key. Do you really buy the Giants having Smith rated so much above Waddle or is it closer than some people might think? Secondly, what are your thoughts on Aaron Banks and Trey Smith as Guard targets for the Gmen?

Thanks jv; we try. Hard to know about Smith, Waddle. We have heard from people that the Giants receiver wish list is Pitts and Smith but we have heard from others that Waddle is o it too! We have also heard that more that one team around the league has Waddle rated higher than Smith. Its one of those things we maybe find out on the 29th.

Both those OGs are solid prospects. We like Smith better as he is a one-time LT who is a very good pass blocker whereas banks isn't as athletic but is a little more physical at the POA.

It seems he is the most talented and explosive edge rusher in the draft with the obvious questions his concussions and retiring from the game in 2018.

It seems Paye is more versatile and more "coachable"

What have you heard and what do you think the Giants would do regarding these two ? Do you think Philiips is even in play at 11 ? and how do you think the Giants have these two ranked against each other ?

Thanks again !

In comment 15229948 SirYesSir said:

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We often hear about college OT's that many say would be better suited at OG in the NFL. As a scout, what do you look for in an OT that would give you confidence they could make that transition smoothly, other than just being big and strong?

You figure most OTs should be able to shift inside but the one variable we look for is bend. Can the guy bend at the knees and keep his pads low. If he can't he's a RT. For both we are also looking for quiet feet. Is his back pedal smooth or choppy and mechanical.

In comment 15229949 Semipro Lineman said:

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and thank you and your colleague for taking the time to do these chats. My question is simple. In light of the shorten post-season for college football this year, how are you grading players from smaller schools or lesser divisions who didn't get the chance to showcase their abilities at bowl games and the usual post-season circuit? To me, level of completion can distort game tapes more than a funhouse mirror.

No question its more complicated this year. There is still plenty of tape from last year and we did have the Senior Bowl this year. You just work as best as you can with the game tape you do have.

In comment 15229951 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:

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thanks for doing this, always interested to see your responses on this annual thread. I noticed that you ranked Jayson Oweh ahead of Azeez Ojulari on your Big Board. Oweh feels very boom/bust, but his athleticism is obviously crazy. How would you rank Oweh's ceiling/potential vs. the other defensive players in this draft, especially vs. Ojulari? Also, I'd love to get your thoughts on Slater vs. Vera-Tucker and notable differences between the two. Slater seems to be getting slightly more love, but AVT isn't very far back on most big boards and has his share of supporters. Thanks again!

Another tough question. We keep hearing whispers that the Giants really like Oweh's upside which is through the roof although you worry about those 0 sacks this past season. Ojulari also has considerable upside but I think that Oweh who is bigger and longer might be a better fit for the kind of versatility that the Giants seem to be asking of their ERs these days.

Re the OGs they are both very good prospects although I see Slater as still a level ahead of AVT who is a G first in the NFL. Slater is just more athletic and is better suited to OT but only time will tell.

How do you see the QBs going in this draft? How likely do you see that one or more QBs are still available when the Giants pick at #11? Which teams (NE, Chi) are the best trade back partners?

Since you're talking about grading players in the Covid shortened season, opt outs, etc....

What kind of grade do you put on Trey Lance? He only had one season, albeit dominant, against lower level competition. And what are some NFL comps for him? Thanks.