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Jeff Legwold’s (ESPN) top 100 prospects re: Paye

Sean : 4/25/2021 9:17 am
The more I read about Kwity Paye, the more intrigued I get with him being the pick at #11. Sy also rated him highly. The key being that he is multiple, and I think the coaching staff is going to value that highly. Paye is ranked within the top 10 in this linked article:

Quote:
10. Kwity Paye, OLB/DE, Michigan, 6-2½, 261 (4.58)

While some see a short strider with a somewhat underwhelming 11.5 career sacks, I see a guy who got moved all over the defensive front -- with snaps at nose tackle -- who has room to develop into far more. Paye missed time with a leg injury in 2020, but he plays with high effort, rockets out of his stance and pushes people off the ball.

Link - ( New Window )
I'd  
Jon in NYC : 4/25/2021 9:19 am : link
love to see it with him, I just don't. I'd love to be wrong since I think he'll actually be the pick, but I just don't see a double digit sack guy in the NFL and if you're taking an OLB at 11 that's what you want.
When  
Clintqb17 : 4/25/2021 9:19 am : link
I hear multiple it makes me think of Justin Tuck. They used to move him inside all of the time. I’m not saying he is Tuck but it makes you wonder what they can do with him.
Fit is in a four man front  
jeff57 : 4/25/2021 9:21 am : link
.@
Without a history of production  
Bill L : 4/25/2021 9:23 am : link
It seems like he’s got a lot,of risk associated with him.
Thing that bothers me about KP  
Dave : 4/25/2021 9:26 am : link
are the comps to Kiwanuka
good player but
Seems like a great kid with a lot of upside,  
Giantgator : 4/25/2021 9:36 am : link
but I don't see the value at #11. Maybe if we trade back. Our issues are on the offensive side.
From all that I've seen and read, Kwity Paye can come in here  
M.S. : 4/25/2021 9:40 am : link

And from the get-go play effectively against the run.

Not so for rushing the passer. He needs time and coaching to reach his potential as a pass rusher.

So, if BBIers are thinking Kwity Paye as the EDGE guy this team needs, it may not be as a pass rusher in 2021.

In sum, if Kwity Paye and DeVonta Smith are on the Board at 11, I want the guy from Alabama, and no questions asked.
Pretty bold list: Wilson at 24, Jones at 33.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/25/2021 9:46 am : link
As Legvold stipulates, he’s grading prospects, not predicting draft order. Still, a clear departure from the echo-chamber consensus that Wilson is QB2, and that Jones belongs in the conversation with everyone but Lawrence.

As for Kwity Paye, If the coaches envision him quickly taking on a Blake Martinez/Leonard Williams-type workload, and having a value-above-replacement comparable to those guys when he’s on the field, sure, take him at #11. On the other hand, if Paye is “multiple” because he isn’t special in any particular role, 11 seems like a high price for versatility.
Seems like he could be the guy...  
Seventh Spiel : 4/25/2021 9:49 am : link
...so I'm trying to get used to the idea. He is an exceptional athlete, and if NYG take him, I'm thinking they'll have a pretty good idea how he'll fit in the system.
Link - ( New Window )
I’d love to see him as a Giant.  
Giant John : 4/25/2021 9:50 am : link
I think we should be willing to spend as high as our second round pick for this player. How many sacks in his college career? Apparently being blocked the rest of the plays. For that reason not a number 11 draft pick in my opinion.
RE: I'd  
Judge_and_Jury : 4/25/2021 9:52 am : link
In comment 15232816 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
love to see it with him, I just don't. I'd love to be wrong since I think he'll actually be the pick, but I just don't see a double digit sack guy in the NFL and if you're taking an OLB at 11 that's what you want.


That's the crux of it. He'll be a nice player but not necessarily a special one. Need better than Jadavepn Clowney or Kenny Holmes if Im taking A DE at 11.
Gotta really hope Devonta drops  
Judge_and_Jury : 4/25/2021 9:53 am : link
To save us from ourselves
RE: Fit is in a four man front  
Klaatu : 4/25/2021 9:54 am : link
In comment 15232819 jeff57 said:
Quote:
.@


Which we were in more often than not.
Won't be crazy either way if we pick him;  
Angel Eyes : 4/25/2021 9:56 am : link
just not the move I'd make.
RE: Thing that bothers me about KP  
Ivan15 : 4/25/2021 9:57 am : link
In comment 15232823 Dave said:
Quote:
are the comps to Kiwanuka
good player but


They really tried to fit Kiwanuka into a 4-3 defense as OLB. Paye would be a slightly different fit but I think your point is that Kiwanuka fit okay for a long time but never really lived up to his first round status (32).
I see prospects  
Sammo85 : 4/25/2021 10:21 am : link
deep in this draft and several we could pick up in the 2-4 round range that can provide what he does and profiles into the defensive front.

I’d rather gamble on a more premier talent and high production/impact guy than a possible rotational fit on the front. I see a floor but limited ceiling with Paye.

Nice kid and story though and appreciate the character he has where he played kind of all over and responsible for roles that I think Don Brown didn’t always use him correctly and never complained.
I’ve come around on the pick  
armstead98 : 4/25/2021 10:21 am : link
He’s an exceptional athlete, great against the run with the potential to be a dominant pass rusher. He’s also and A+ character so you know he’s going to work his ass off to get better. Sure he’s not a finished prosecutors but his floor and ceiling are both very high.
He might be the pick  
Rjanyg : 4/25/2021 10:25 am : link
But I am not seeing the fit. Sorry. I personally think Ojulari is a better fit.

I guess it all depends on how the player fits the plans of the coaching staff. That is what Gettlemen said in his presser. Get players that fit the coaches schemes. Our base defense is 3-4. What is Paye? A 5 tech? An OLB? What is he in our base?

One can argue we will be in a 4 man front 50% of the time and therefore he will play DE. Ok then why draft a player in round 1 who is effective on only half of the defensive snaps? I think the Giants are looking for a more versatile player fro their front 7. I don’t think Paye is the guy. He may turn out to be a good pro but he doesn’t seem to fit this scheme
I want  
theking : 4/25/2021 10:43 am : link
Nothing to do with this guy. I’m not high on any Michigan lineman. Rashaan Gary 2.0 lol.
2 sacks last year?  
ZogZerg : 4/25/2021 10:44 am : link
I know only 4-5 games, but come on.
I don't see how he is rated so high.
RE: I want  
ryanmkeane : 4/25/2021 10:45 am : link
In comment 15232904 theking said:
Quote:
Nothing to do with this guy. I’m not high on any Michigan lineman. Rashaan Gary 2.0 lol.

Rashan Gary was one of the best defensive linemen in the playoffs last season
RE: He might be the pick  
Angel Eyes : 4/25/2021 10:48 am : link
In comment 15232879 Rjanyg said:
Quote:
But I am not seeing the fit. Sorry. I personally think Ojulari is a better fit.

I guess it all depends on how the player fits the plans of the coaching staff. That is what Gettlemen said in his presser. Get players that fit the coaches schemes. Our base defense is 3-4. What is Paye? A 5 tech? An OLB? What is he in our base?

One can argue we will be in a 4 man front 50% of the time and therefore he will play DE. Ok then why draft a player in round 1 who is effective on only half of the defensive snaps? I think the Giants are looking for a more versatile player fro their front 7. I don’t think Paye is the guy. He may turn out to be a good pro but he doesn’t seem to fit this scheme

I thought that Judge and Graham said "Yes" when asked the question about what defense the Giants would be running. The Patriots ran a 4-3 for some of the time Judge was there, but they think of their defense more as an amoeba; I'm not a fan of that approach but that's what they'd be running.
RE: I'd  
BigBlueShock : 4/25/2021 10:55 am : link
In comment 15232816 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
love to see it with him, I just don't. I'd love to be wrong since I think he'll actually be the pick, but I just don't see a double digit sack guy in the NFL and if you're taking an OLB at 11 that's what you want.

I agree completely. And I have a terrible hunch that Paye will be the pick based on the fact that he’s the one guy that’s regularly discussed with our pick that I don’t have any interest in. It wouldn’t be a Giants 1st round pick if I didn’t come away scratching my head because they took the one guy I was afraid they’d take
He’s absolutely an EDGE in a 3-4.  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/25/2021 10:58 am : link
The speed and power are elite for the position. He needs coaching as a pass-rusher, but the tools are there and he can already set the edge. The lack of length is a concern, and might be a bigger issue in a 4-3: as a DE, he could get swallowed. As an OLB, he would have to show that he can play in space against NFL offenses.

I’m just going by the numbers. I haven’t watched Michigan nearly enough to form an opinion from performance. Clearly, his origin story is attractive. The real hero there is his mother.
RE: RE: I want  
Johnny5 : 4/25/2021 10:59 am : link
In comment 15232906 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15232904 theking said:


Quote:


Nothing to do with this guy. I’m not high on any Michigan lineman. Rashaan Gary 2.0 lol.


Rashan Gary was one of the best defensive linemen in the playoffs last season

Agree Sean, Rashan Gary 2.0 production would be good enough for me. Sure he was nothing special rookie year but he started to really come on last year. Not sure that was a good choice in comparison to prove his point... lol
Would the Giants move him inside  
Simms11 : 4/25/2021 11:12 am : link
with DLaw and Leo on that front already? I see him primarily as an Edge in this D. If the Giants go to a 4-3 look, perhaps there’s times where he could be moved inside, ala Tuck, but I’m not so sure. Does Paye fit the 3-4 defense? There’s many that say no....square peg, round hole?
If Paye is So Good  
Samiam : 4/25/2021 11:16 am : link
Why wouldn’t Dallas draft him at 10? Their defense needs way more help than the Giants.
85% our pick is Smith or Waddle  
Producer : 4/25/2021 11:20 am : link
let's enjoy it.
I’ve made this comp before  
Tuckrule : 4/25/2021 11:27 am : link
Paye reminds me of Justin Houston. Similar traits and body and movement skills. Paye needs refinement. I still have him behind slater, smith, waddle, Surtain and Horn.
RE: I’ve made this comp before  
Big Blue Blogger : 4/25/2021 11:38 am : link
Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Paye reminds me of Justin Houston. Similar traits and body and movement skills. Paye needs refinement. I still have him behind slater, smith, waddle, Surtain and Horn.

I can see the similarities. Houston has long arms, which helps offset the lack of “plus” height. Houston also had serious productivity, which Paye currently lacks. On the other hand, Houston torpedoed his draft stock by stupidly flunking a drug test. Paye has a reputation as a model citizen who doesn’t make dumb mistakes off the field.
We have to stop thinking that drafted players  
ryanmkeane : 4/25/2021 11:42 am : link
are who they are as a college player or after 1 season in the NFL.
RE: If Paye is So Good  
ryanmkeane : 4/25/2021 11:43 am : link
In comment 15232958 Samiam said:
Quote:
Why wouldn’t Dallas draft him at 10? Their defense needs way more help than the Giants.

Who says they won’t?
People have their own views on who the Giants should take  
ghost718 : 4/25/2021 11:50 am : link
it's why you constantly hear

He's a reach
He's raw
He can't play in the Giants defense
His production wasn't good

Most of it garbage
Paye will make it to the 20s, wait  
stoneman : 4/25/2021 11:52 am : link
and move up a little from the 2nd if they really grade him out that high. He seems like more of a perfect NYG fit than overall player.
Paye would be a great fit  
Dave on the UWS : 4/25/2021 11:52 am : link
in this defense. Very few players are Chase Young in college. He is already a VERY good run defender on the Edge. He has all the athletic ability to become an elite Edge player. We have the coaches in place to help him realize his potential (Coach Chaos). Look what they did for Leo last year. He needed to learn how to finish. Paye is a hard worker. High ceiling. Thats what you want in a top pick.
Oh I forgot, he didn't get a ton of sacks in college, no excuse, don't bother with him. That's the current mentality on this board. I'm glad everyone here is a football genius.
RE: Paye will make it to the 20s, wait  
armstead98 : 4/25/2021 12:05 pm : link
In comment 15233005 stoneman said:
Quote:
and move up a little from the 2nd if they really grade him out that high. He seems like more of a perfect NYG fit than overall player.


Lol, no chance. He’s a lock for top 14
RE: Paye will make it to the 20s, wait  
Sean : 4/25/2021 12:07 pm : link
In comment 15233005 stoneman said:
Quote:
and move up a little from the 2nd if they really grade him out that high. He seems like more of a perfect NYG fit than overall player.

I’ve always liked this strategy. Draft the BPA at 11, and then aggressively move up to the late first if needed to secure Paye. Imagine coming out of day 1 with Smith & Paye?
Interesting list...  
bw in dc : 4/25/2021 12:09 pm : link
Three of Legwold's first seven are Alabama guys - Surtain, Waddle, and Smith.

Newsome over Horn jumps out, too. I don't agree, but Newsome is pretty underrated the more you watch him.

Mac Jones is a really sound spot. Bravo for that.

Schwartz at #94 but Dyami Brown at #96 is a shocker.
RE: Paye would be a great fit  
Bill L : 4/25/2021 12:32 pm : link
In comment 15233006 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
in this defense. Very few players are Chase Young in college. He is already a VERY good run defender on the Edge. He has all the athletic ability to become an elite Edge player. We have the coaches in place to help him realize his potential (Coach Chaos). Look what they did for Leo last year. He needed to learn how to finish. Paye is a hard worker. High ceiling. Thats what you want in a top pick.
Oh I forgot, he didn't get a ton of sacks in college, no excuse, don't bother with him. That's the current mentality on this board. I'm glad everyone here is a football genius.


Otoh, we *are* picking him to get sacks.

I have to admit that I want Smith at #11. Ut I will also admit that if he went through college and never caught a pass, I’d probably have a little less enthusiasm. Maybe then I’d trade down with the Pats and take him at 15.
RE: 2 sacks last year?  
giantBCP : 4/25/2021 1:21 pm : link
In comment 15232905 ZogZerg said:
Quote:
I know only 4-5 games, but come on.
I don't see how he is rated so high.


The NFL doesn't give a shit about college stats.
Can do better at 11 than Paye  
giantstock : 4/25/2021 1:25 pm : link
The Giants already have a pretty good run defense even after losing Tomlinson. Paye is not-so-hot for year 1 and probably year 2 not much of a pass rusher though each year expect an improvement.

If they can get near equal value on offense - there's a bigger need. What they did in FA isn't enough for a 31st ranked offense.
I don’t get why some posters  
ryanmkeane : 4/25/2021 2:52 pm : link
are saying that if he’s Gary, it would be a bad thing. Gary wasn’t much of a factor his rookie year but really came on towards the end of year 2
RE: I’ve made this comp before  
ColHowPepper : 4/25/2021 5:44 pm : link
In comment 15232975 Tuckrule said:
Quote:
Paye reminds me of Justin Houston. Similar traits and body and movement skills. Paye needs refinement. I still have him behind slater, smith, waddle, Surtain and Horn.
This is a much better comp for Paye than that bandied about for days now re. Kiwanuka. Different body types, different strengths, different in space (Kiwi better) and in traffic (Paye likely better/stronger).

The ONLY similarity between the two may be that the Giants were--with Kiwi--and may--with Paye--trying to fit square pegs in round holes.
RE: I'd  
allstarjim : 4/25/2021 11:24 pm : link
In comment 15232816 Jon in NYC said:
Quote:
love to see it with him, I just don't. I'd love to be wrong since I think he'll actually be the pick, but I just don't see a double digit sack guy in the NFL and if you're taking an OLB at 11 that's what you want.


Jon, I see great ball get-off, technique, and power. Add it all up and that's a recipe for success in the NFL.

Only question for me is team fit. I like him more as a hand in the dirt player that may fit better on a team like Vegas.
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