to missing out on the blue chips/receivers, but all this smoke about Horn is notable. Seems to happen every year with a name emerging about a week out.
to missing out on the blue chips/receivers, but all this smoke about Horn is notable. Seems to happen every year with a name emerging about a week out.
Throw enough crap at the wall and some of it sticks....
And ER is not, it’s absolutely a possibility. I’d have no problems at all with Horn, I like him a lot. Yeah, they added Adoree...but having 3 strong cover corners is a huge advantage.
Horn wanted to cover Pitts when they played Florida, Pitts said Horn was the toughest player he faced in college. SC plays Ole Miss, Horn wants to cover Elijah Moore...locks him down, from the slot. Two completely different types of threats and he was up to the task on both.
than either they or Jackson has to play slot if you want them all on the field. $13? or a high 1st round pick is a pretty steep price to pay for a slot corner.
Giants have used so many draft picks in the 2019 and 2020 drafts on cornerback (3 for DeAndre Baker, Sam Beal, Julian Love, Corey Ballentine, Darnay Holmes, Williamson), and to make that even better have spent a premium on their starting CBs Bradberry and Jackson.
but if they pick horn or surtain, they better be sure that one of their top 3 CBs can play the slot. otherwise you're looking at a wasted pick like kiwanuka was
Bradberry only has two years left on his contract. You want to know why the Pats can let a guy go a year early? Because they already have his replacement on the roster.
But holy shit we need front 7 impact players. Horn may be a very good player but is he a better corner than Parsons is a LB? Or Waddle or Smith is a WR? I think not.
Why not? He has the look of a #1 CB in the NFL with Pro Bowl ability IMO. He can play man coverage, he's got ball skills and he's an aggressive tackler. I like his tenacious style of play.
You put this guy opposite Bradberry, with Adoree Jackson in the slot, and you've got playmakers all over the field. Lotta ball hawks with Peppers, Ryan & McKinney at S.
They could go WR or LB would be great picks too - but don't sleep on how good Horn is. You could argue he's a better fit than Surtain, who looks like an All Pro cover 3 CB.
Think about Denver's no fly zone defense. It's a viable model in today's NFL.
I think if Adoree's in the slot with Horn and Bradberry outside, and you have Ryan and Mckinney at Safety, and you have quality depth all over your secondary.
I still prefer one of the 'Bama receivers but I think being married to one or two players at 11 is kinda silly. If you get a truly great player, the current roster construction shouldn't be the ultimate decider. If Horn ends up an All-Pro no one is going to care 2 and 3 years from now what the Giants already had on their roster in 2021.
That said, I believe Smith and Waddle are also great players AND add an element to the offense that would mark a significant improvement right away as well as in the future.
And I want to caveat this with the players you'd consider should be at premium positions. If you think Slater is a OG, even a great one, then I think WR, CB, or Edge are more impactful.
Future cap allocation also is a factor, which is why I believe the Giants will give Thomas and Peart every opportunity to be their starting tackles unless a slam dunk no brainer (Sewell) is there.
CB gets the nod over off-ball LB, especially if we’re buying Graham’s coaching lineage and the investment in Martinez. So he’s probably over Parsons. Horn makes more sense than Surtain because he has experience at slot corner and his skill set in man press fit what Graham actually wants to do on defense. If they aren’t entertaining a reach at Edge he’s the value player on defense they would take if you dig into it. I’d bet money he’s higher on the Giants board than Surtain given what he brings to the table.
He’s obviously projectable there but I don’t see how you pay a guy 13m/yr and change his position. If you’re throwing a big investment at slot corner, the rookie is the one that will play it.
...then Gettleman has done a truly atrocious job drafting CBs. And he's drafted a lot of them.
I was in your same boat for a while. Let's give these recently drafted kids a chance to get better.
But Terps and a few others underscored the point you can never have enough good corners. Which I can buy. And since I don't believe ANY of the pass rush prospects warrant an investment at #11, let's go to one of the strengths of this draft - corner.
CB is locked down with 2 high paid starters and solid depth. You don’t draft a guy who won’t see the field at #11. I like Horn but it would be a weird pick IMO
The way this has gained steam these last few days makes me think it’s an intentional leak. The Giants want someone (Philly maybe?) to trade up and pick Horn in the top 10.
The Giants don’t need 2 positions- QB and CB. The more QB’s and CB’s that go inside of the top 10 means there’s a better shot the guy they are actually targeting falls
Smoke screen 1010
Since 2006, the Giants are 4-for-4 reaching the playoffs...
I thought his coverage was good, but he didn't seem to make any improvement in the grabbing department throughout the year. Was flagged throughout the year for holding/illegal contact. Maybe the coaches didn't love the lack of improvement?
As far as snaps go, there's plenty of snaps for your #3 CB. Holmes played 41% of the D snaps last year despite being a 4th round rookie with no camp. And that includes the 4 games he was inactive for. He played >70% of the snaps in 6 games last season.
Plus, I get that many have soured on Slayton, but you can make the argument that with Golladay in the fold the WR room is just as crowded. Any rookie WR is going to be competing with Shepard and Slayton for snaps.
and they're not happy with their slot CBs in house.
That's surprising! Before the Jackson signing,there was talk that Holmes might play the other CB,not the slot. Any reason(s) why they seem to have soured on him?
Bradberry only has two years left on his contract. You want to know why the Pats can let a guy go a year early? Because they already have his replacement on the roster.
.
Just like the Pats had a replacement for Gronk you mean?
They haven't had a TE for the last two years.
That's why they finally addressed it this offseason!
They are far from perfect in that regard.
And ER is not, it’s absolutely a possibility. I’d have no problems at all with Horn, I like him a lot. Yeah, they added Adoree...but having 3 strong cover corners is a huge advantage.
Horn wanted to cover Pitts when they played Florida, Pitts said Horn was the toughest player he faced in college. SC plays Ole Miss, Horn wants to cover Elijah Moore...locks him down, from the slot. Two completely different types of threats and he was up to the task on both.
This is why I love the guy. Just a complete dog out there. Is he a little handsy? Yeah sure, but unlike Eli Apple he has physicality to his game. Plus if he builds up enough of a rep they’ll let it slide more times than they should. See - Jalen Ramsey
Throw enough crap at the wall and some of it sticks....
Horn wanted to cover Pitts when they played Florida, Pitts said Horn was the toughest player he faced in college. SC plays Ole Miss, Horn wants to cover Elijah Moore...locks him down, from the slot. Two completely different types of threats and he was up to the task on both.
If we go WR@11, high chance that player ultimately ends up in slot, or plays significant reps in slot.
sounds like they're souring awful quick on holmes then
I thought Holmes played well for a rookie, especially given the circumstances.
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and they're not happy with their slot CBs in house.
I thought Holmes played well for a rookie, especially given the circumstances.
I thought he did ok given unusual circumstances. That was quick to sour on rookie. Did he do something wrong in the meeting or off the field?
Elijah Molden, CB from Washington would be a nice pick at 42.
1. Pitts
2. Horn
3. Sewell
Grabbing any one of them with the 11th pick is a huge win.
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and they're not happy with their slot CBs in house.
Elijah Molden, CB from Washington would be a nice pick at 42.
Like him too. If they don't go Edge early, they probably look at #42 and possibly moving up for one.
That is borderline shocking. Holmes was pretty good, and I thought a lot better than Yiadom..
Then again, what do I know...?
You put this guy opposite Bradberry, with Adoree Jackson in the slot, and you've got playmakers all over the field. Lotta ball hawks with Peppers, Ryan & McKinney at S.
They could go WR or LB would be great picks too - but don't sleep on how good Horn is. You could argue he's a better fit than Surtain, who looks like an All Pro cover 3 CB.
The nickel package is basically your starting Defense.
then they really need to fire whoever is in charge of drafting CBs. seems like every one they draft sucks
its a passing league..
teams play 3WR over 50% of the time..
you need more than three corners..
you HAVE to cover the slot well. Thats where teams take advantageon short quick passes and slants to get the ball out quick and limit your pass rush..
Holmes was a 4th round pick.. you dont say.. OH NO.. im not taking Horn or Surtain because I have a 4th round guy holding the spot down..
Not about Horn or any CBs
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...
Not about Horn or any CBs
Ok, then we can probably move on...
Agreed.
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In comment 15233462 Jimmy Googs said:
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...
Not about Horn or any CBs
Ok, then we can probably move on...
Or it's a tight-lipped secret
Think about Denver's no fly zone defense. It's a viable model in today's NFL.
I think if Adoree's in the slot with Horn and Bradberry outside, and you have Ryan and Mckinney at Safety, and you have quality depth all over your secondary.
I still prefer one of the 'Bama receivers but I think being married to one or two players at 11 is kinda silly. If you get a truly great player, the current roster construction shouldn't be the ultimate decider. If Horn ends up an All-Pro no one is going to care 2 and 3 years from now what the Giants already had on their roster in 2021.
That said, I believe Smith and Waddle are also great players AND add an element to the offense that would mark a significant improvement right away as well as in the future.
And I want to caveat this with the players you'd consider should be at premium positions. If you think Slater is a OG, even a great one, then I think WR, CB, or Edge are more impactful.
Future cap allocation also is a factor, which is why I believe the Giants will give Thomas and Peart every opportunity to be their starting tackles unless a slam dunk no brainer (Sewell) is there.
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and they're not happy with their slot CBs in house.
I thought Holmes played well for a rookie, especially given the circumstances.
Still worth considering an upgrade, if they have an elite grade on Horn or Surtain or both
I was in your same boat for a while. Let's give these recently drafted kids a chance to get better.
But Terps and a few others underscored the point you can never have enough good corners. Which I can buy. And since I don't believe ANY of the pass rush prospects warrant an investment at #11, let's go to one of the strengths of this draft - corner.
The way this has gained steam these last few days makes me think it’s an intentional leak. The Giants want someone (Philly maybe?) to trade up and pick Horn in the top 10.
The Giants don’t need 2 positions- QB and CB. The more QB’s and CB’s that go inside of the top 10 means there’s a better shot the guy they are actually targeting falls
Smoke screen 1010
They are 0-for-10 in all other years.
The choice is clear. 😉
As far as snaps go, there's plenty of snaps for your #3 CB. Holmes played 41% of the D snaps last year despite being a 4th round rookie with no camp. And that includes the 4 games he was inactive for. He played >70% of the snaps in 6 games last season.
Plus, I get that many have soured on Slayton, but you can make the argument that with Golladay in the fold the WR room is just as crowded. Any rookie WR is going to be competing with Shepard and Slayton for snaps.
That's surprising! Before the Jackson signing,there was talk that Holmes might play the other CB,not the slot. Any reason(s) why they seem to have soured on him?
Funny you mention the punter...
NY Post: Giants could look to add punter - ( New Window )
They are 0-for-10 in all other years.
The choice is clear. 😉
Ha, now that's an interesting tidbit!
Just like the Pats had a replacement for Gronk you mean?
They haven't had a TE for the last two years.
That's why they finally addressed it this offseason!
They are far from perfect in that regard.
Horn wanted to cover Pitts when they played Florida, Pitts said Horn was the toughest player he faced in college. SC plays Ole Miss, Horn wants to cover Elijah Moore...locks him down, from the slot. Two completely different types of threats and he was up to the task on both.
This is why I love the guy. Just a complete dog out there. Is he a little handsy? Yeah sure, but unlike Eli Apple he has physicality to his game. Plus if he builds up enough of a rep they’ll let it slide more times than they should. See - Jalen Ramsey