The Giants shocked a lot of people two years ago almost to this exact time by drafting Daniel Jones at #6.
The linked thread was rough. A lot of embarrassment among NYG fans.
Two years later - is it as bad as you thought it would be? Better than you expected? About what you expected?
Link - (
New Window )
And when that didn't materialize, Gettleman's backup plan was to use picks 95 and 108 on Edge players. He got Ximines with pick 95, but missed out when the Raiders grabbed Maxx Crosby at 106, and the Giants ended up with Love.
If that's correct, then Gettleman did have a plan to get his QB and also solve Edge.
In retrospect, he should have taken Crosby (who has been terrific for the Raiders) at 95 and perhaps would have still gotten Ximines at 108.
Can anyone else elaborate on that?
Good stuff...
Ha ha ha
And
Thank god no Haskins.
That was a pretty epic meltdown
And when that didn't materialize, Gettleman's backup plan was to use picks 95 and 108 on Edge players. He got Ximines with pick 95, but missed out when the Raiders grabbed Maxx Crosby at 106, and the Giants ended up with Love.
If that's correct, then Gettleman did have a plan to get his QB and also solve Edge.
In retrospect, he should have taken Crosby (who has been terrific for the Raiders) at 95 and perhaps would have still gotten Ximines at 108.
Can anyone else elaborate on that?
Yeah, I believe the rumor was that the Giants were trying to trade up for Josh Allen
AcidTest : 9:16 pm : link
lectures us about how you can't reach for a pick, and then does just that. Are we really to believe that Jones was the highest rated player on their board?
JonC : 9:16 pm : link
but he did say he thought fan outrage over Eli might force their hand. He was right on that aspect. I don't like the pick.
JonC : 9:25 pm : link
after the scouts were sent home, but I don't know for certain.
These three posts touch on critical issues:
1. It seems unlikely Jones was the highest rated player on their board.
2. The selection may have been influenced by fan opinion.
3. The selection may have been made independent of purely football reasons.
Admittedly 1. and 3. are speculation (by smart, level-headed posters), but 2. is actual asshatery by a proven asshat. Knowing what we know about the front office (I include ownership in the term "front office") it is believable that the pick was made for questionable reasons. My personal belief is that the pick was made in the hopes of finding Eli 2.0, but the motive doesn't have to be that absurdly stupid still be questionable from a football perspective.
This is what we drafted:
The upshot was supposed to be that Jones was the beneficiary of elite QB coaching and would enter the NFL as prepared as a QB could be. But Sy'56's scouting report at the time warned otherwise:
I wanted to like Jones more than this, I really did. I have a thing for tough quarterbacks and I do think he brought his teammates to another level. That’s a trend that can really make a kid break out in the NFL. While I do have a 1st round grade on him and I do think he can be in play at 17 because of the position he plays, I think NYG may need to steer clear here. Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based. After a long time scouting him, he is a pass for me.
Sy was right.
There is no proof in 2 years of pro football and 3 years of college football that Jones can be even a very good quarterback (even his defenders seem to be admitting that "great" is off the table).
I'm confident he won't get a second contract with the Giants. The question will be whether the front office admits their error after 2021, or waits until after 2022.
I’ve said many times that DJ should have NEVER been drafted by the Giants in the first place, and that Eli should have been the starter his last year. The team would have still sucked, and they would have had a high draft pick the next year when their would have been better QBS available like Tua, and Hebert although I’m not a big Tua fan. Picking DJ at 6, and Barkley at 2 have set this team back for years.
Same.
Fast forward to 2019: I thought my initial anger was misplaced and the pros knew what they were doing,
Fast forward to 2020: my initial reaction was warranted. Jones was ok as a late first round flyer but taking him at 6 was folly.
Never in your lifetime.
Quote:
Gettleman
AcidTest : 9:16 pm : link
lectures us about how you can't reach for a pick, and then does just that. Are we really to believe that Jones was the highest rated player on their board?
Quote:
My source didn't say QB outright today
JonC : 9:16 pm : link
but he did say he thought fan outrage over Eli might force their hand. He was right on that aspect. I don't like the pick.
Quote:
I suspect they tweaked the board
JonC : 9:25 pm : link
after the scouts were sent home, but I don't know for certain.
These three posts touch on critical issues:
1. It seems unlikely Jones was the highest rated player on their board.
2. The selection may have been influenced by fan opinion.
3. The selection may have been made independent of purely football reasons.
Admittedly 1. and 3. are speculation (by smart, level-headed posters), but 2. is actual asshatery by a proven asshat. Knowing what we know about the front office (I include ownership in the term "front office") it is believable that the pick was made for questionable reasons. My personal belief is that the pick was made in the hopes of finding Eli 2.0, but the motive doesn't have to be that absurdly stupid still be questionable from a football perspective.
This is what we drafted:
The upshot was supposed to be that Jones was the beneficiary of elite QB coaching and would enter the NFL as prepared as a QB could be. But Sy'56's scouting report at the time warned otherwise:
Quote:
Summary: Fourth year junior entry. A three year starter and two time team captain. Despite playing with inferior talent both up front and at the skill positions nearly every week, Jones put together a productive career as both a passer and rusher. The prototypical quarterback when it comes to size and playing style showed glimpses over the past two years of what a first round QB should look like. His NFL-caliber mechanics from head to toe give him the look of a professional passer and him being coached by David Cutcliffe, the college coach of both Peyton and Eli Manning, only helps strengthen the notion of how ready he is. Jones pairs that with toughness and grit that doesn’t come around often. However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent. There just seemed to be a lack of a true feel for the pocket, the defense, and angles. Jones checks a lot of boxes but there is a lot of gamble in the team that takes him even though he comes across as a “safe” bet to some.
I wanted to like Jones more than this, I really did. I have a thing for tough quarterbacks and I do think he brought his teammates to another level. That’s a trend that can really make a kid break out in the NFL. While I do have a 1st round grade on him and I do think he can be in play at 17 because of the position he plays, I think NYG may need to steer clear here. Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based. After a long time scouting him, he is a pass for me.
Sy was right.
There is no proof in 2 years of pro football and 3 years of college football that Jones can be even a very good quarterback (even his defenders seem to be admitting that "great" is off the table).
I'm confident he won't get a second contract with the Giants. The question will be whether the front office admits their error after 2021, or waits until after 2022.
Good post. And yes after 2 years, Sy was right. The issues in bold, to me, are ones that can’t be corrected through coaching or even game reps. I was hoping they would be correctable. I think in the end, they’ll be looked upon as DJ’s fatal flaws. I too will be shocked if he’s the guy long term. I think he gets the next 2 seasons though.
And when that didn't materialize, Gettleman's backup plan was to use picks 95 and 108 on Edge players. He got Ximines with pick 95, but missed out when the Raiders grabbed Maxx Crosby at 106, and the Giants ended up with Love.
If that's correct, then Gettleman did have a plan to get his QB and also solve Edge.
In retrospect, he should have taken Crosby (who has been terrific for the Raiders) at 95 and perhaps would have still gotten Ximines at 108.
Can anyone else elaborate on that?
IIRC, he has taking Josh Allen at #6 but heard two or three teams were taking Jones (WFT, Denver, MIA ??? IIRC) so he took Jones and tried to get another pick inside of #10 which he could not do. Did not matter as Jax took him at 7.
Quote:
And 2 offensive systems with no real off-season last year. Are we already grave dancing? The odds are starting to go the other way but there’s a spectrum here and you can’t hold face as being realistic while saying this guy is dogshit already. I’m on board with not tieing our franchise to a loser for 5+ years but let’s pump the breaks a little. Next year we can start to hold court. I know I’ll stick to that too.
I’ve said many times that DJ should have NEVER been drafted by the Giants in the first place, and that Eli should have been the starter his last year. The team would have still sucked, and they would have had a high draft pick the next year when their would have been better QBS available like Tua, and Hebert although I’m not a big Tua fan. Picking DJ at 6, and Barkley at 2 have set this team back for years.
Exactly. It never made sense to draft a QB in 2019. It should have been 2018, and at the time many here wanted Allen. But the moment SB was announced as the pick the plan should have been to wait until 2020 to get a QB
Quote:
And 2 offensive systems with no real off-season last year. Are we already grave dancing? The odds are starting to go the other way but there’s a spectrum here and you can’t hold face as being realistic while saying this guy is dogshit already. I’m on board with not tieing our franchise to a loser for 5+ years but let’s pump the breaks a little. Next year we can start to hold court. I know I’ll stick to that too.
I’ve said many times that DJ should have NEVER been drafted by the Giants in the first place, and that Eli should have been the starter his last year. The team would have still sucked, and they would have had a high draft pick the next year when their would have been better QBS available like Tua, and Hebert although I’m not a big Tua fan. Picking DJ at 6, and Barkley at 2 have set this team back for years.
Exactly. It never made sense to draft a QB in 2019. It should have been 2018, and at the time many here wanted Allen. But the moment SB was announced as the pick the plan should have been to wait until 2020 to get a QB
You supposedly didn't join until 2019.
And while many may have wanted Allen, more wanted Darnold. And just as many Allen fans wanted rosen.
Quote:
In comment 15233507 AcesUp said:
Quote:
And 2 offensive systems with no real off-season last year. Are we already grave dancing? The odds are starting to go the other way but there’s a spectrum here and you can’t hold face as being realistic while saying this guy is dogshit already. I’m on board with not tieing our franchise to a loser for 5+ years but let’s pump the breaks a little. Next year we can start to hold court. I know I’ll stick to that too.
I’ve said many times that DJ should have NEVER been drafted by the Giants in the first place, and that Eli should have been the starter his last year. The team would have still sucked, and they would have had a high draft pick the next year when their would have been better QBS available like Tua, and Hebert although I’m not a big Tua fan. Picking DJ at 6, and Barkley at 2 have set this team back for years.
Exactly. It never made sense to draft a QB in 2019. It should have been 2018, and at the time many here wanted Allen. But the moment SB was announced as the pick the plan should have been to wait until 2020 to get a QB
That is real revisionist history. On BBI most wanted Darnold or, especially, Josh Rosen. I think more wanted Lamar Jackson than Josh Allen.
Quote:
Gettleman
AcidTest : 9:16 pm : link
lectures us about how you can't reach for a pick, and then does just that. Are we really to believe that Jones was the highest rated player on their board?
Quote:
My source didn't say QB outright today
JonC : 9:16 pm : link
but he did say he thought fan outrage over Eli might force their hand. He was right on that aspect. I don't like the pick.
Quote:
I suspect they tweaked the board
JonC : 9:25 pm : link
after the scouts were sent home, but I don't know for certain.
These three posts touch on critical issues:
1. It seems unlikely Jones was the highest rated player on their board.
2. The selection may have been influenced by fan opinion.
3. The selection may have been made independent of purely football reasons.
Admittedly 1. and 3. are speculation (by smart, level-headed posters), but 2. is actual asshatery by a proven asshat. Knowing what we know about the front office (I include ownership in the term "front office") it is believable that the pick was made for questionable reasons. My personal belief is that the pick was made in the hopes of finding Eli 2.0, but the motive doesn't have to be that absurdly stupid still be questionable from a football perspective.
This is what we drafted:
The upshot was supposed to be that Jones was the beneficiary of elite QB coaching and would enter the NFL as prepared as a QB could be. But Sy'56's scouting report at the time warned otherwise:
Quote:
Summary: Fourth year junior entry. A three year starter and two time team captain. Despite playing with inferior talent both up front and at the skill positions nearly every week, Jones put together a productive career as both a passer and rusher. The prototypical quarterback when it comes to size and playing style showed glimpses over the past two years of what a first round QB should look like. His NFL-caliber mechanics from head to toe give him the look of a professional passer and him being coached by David Cutcliffe, the college coach of both Peyton and Eli Manning, only helps strengthen the notion of how ready he is. Jones pairs that with toughness and grit that doesn’t come around often. However, there were constant red flags in his tape that are hard to ignore. He didn’t see things well and his decisions were too inconsistent. There just seemed to be a lack of a true feel for the pocket, the defense, and angles. Jones checks a lot of boxes but there is a lot of gamble in the team that takes him even though he comes across as a “safe” bet to some.
I wanted to like Jones more than this, I really did. I have a thing for tough quarterbacks and I do think he brought his teammates to another level. That’s a trend that can really make a kid break out in the NFL. While I do have a 1st round grade on him and I do think he can be in play at 17 because of the position he plays, I think NYG may need to steer clear here. Jones has enough arm strength, touch, and athletic ability. But there isn’t a quick mind here, he doesn’t see everything a top tier QB does whether it is coverage or pass rush based. After a long time scouting him, he is a pass for me.
Sy was right.
There is no proof in 2 years of pro football and 3 years of college football that Jones can be even a very good quarterback (even his defenders seem to be admitting that "great" is off the table).
I'm confident he won't get a second contract with the Giants. The question will be whether the front office admits their error after 2021, or waits until after 2022.
I didn't like the Jones pick then and still don't like it now.
However, I don't think the 3 posts you chose from the original Jones thread are all that important.
Post 1 (by Acid) criticizes DG for his "best player available" stance one year and then picking Jones (not the BPA) the following year.
Again, I wasn't a fan of the Jones pick, but since QBs are the most important position on the team, they are the exception to BPA and can't be treated the same. 1st RD QBs tend to get overdrafted and if a GM has a convition on a QB in RD 1 he almost always pulls the trigger.
Post 2 (by JonC) To suggest that "fan outrage over Eli MIGHT force their hand" is pure speculation by Jon's source. It was his opinion on what the Giants' rationale MIGHT be.
You can't offer that as proof that fan opinion influenced the pick.
Post 3 (by JonC) suggests that the Giants may have tweaked their board after the scouts went home.
I love JonC's posts, but this can be construed as a "cover your ass post" by someone who suggested right before the draft that the Giants were going "D" with pick 6.
And if you read through the Jones draft day thread you'll note that Rico (an equally respected Asshat) said the following: "My thread disappeared, but info from my asshat: He told me it was Jones at the start of the draft. The Giants decided over a week ago."
Given that, speculation that "the selection (of Jones) may have been made independent of purely football reasons" just doesn't hold water. The Jones pick wasn't some last-minute decision made independent of the scouts and their input.
Allen being available at 6 was one weird thing that happened draft night. Jones being taken at 6 was disappointing at the time (fans hated him), but not really a surprise... everybody knew that the Giants loved him.
The second weird thing that happened on draft night was that MIA, DEN, PIT and CIN iirc were all in the market for QBs and all picked before Washington, and all passed on quarterbacks after Jones went- with top prospects still on the board. I found this very surprising- and has to be telling about teams' evaluations of the remaining 3 QBs, and maybe even clues us in as to their evaluations of Jones.
Obviously, the third weird thing was DG trading back into the first to grab the first CB of the draft. 3 1st round picks. Weird.
The Giants had conviction, and they made the pick.
They always needed to fix the roster, and now that they have hopefully, we'll really see what we have this upcoming season.
Sy was right.
There is no proof in 2 years of pro football and 3 years of college football that Jones can be even a very good quarterback (even his defenders seem to be admitting that "great" is off the table).
I'm confident he won't get a second contract with the Giants. The question will be whether the front office admits their error after 2021, or waits until after 2022.
There's one thing that really, really disputes this though and that's Joe Judge. Judge has been effusive about Jones. We just witnessed DG "go for it" (which I called out from reading the tea leaves) in free agency, not because they want to see whether Jones has "it" or not, but because they already believe it. All the bullshit analysts on TV are parroting this stupid narrative, "They want to see if Jones has it." I completely disagree with this, it's actually a ridiculous take from a pro point of view.
I am 100% convinced the Giants see themselves as a playoff team this year and that Judge and DG have confidence that Jones will take them there. The proof I have? The friggin offseason.
It also increases the likelihood of missing on future opportunities. Perfect example of that is drafting Thomas over Herbert because we already had Jones.
I believe you should enter a draft with as little conviction as possible. Trust your talent evaluation and be receptive to opportunities in the weeks leading up to the draft, during the draft, and after the draft.
Allen being available at 6 was one weird thing that happened draft night. Jones being taken at 6 was disappointing at the time (fans hated him), but not really a surprise... everybody knew that the Giants loved him.
The second weird thing that happened on draft night was that MIA, DEN, PIT and CIN iirc were all in the market for QBs and all picked before Washington, and all passed on quarterbacks after Jones went- with top prospects still on the board. I found this very surprising- and has to be telling about teams' evaluations of the remaining 3 QBs, and maybe even clues us in as to their evaluations of Jones.
Obviously, the third weird thing was DG trading back into the first to grab the first CB of the draft. 3 1st round picks. Weird.
As been discussed a good amount on this board, there was likely nothing weird about MIA, DEN, PIT and CIN and what they did in round one that year.
It also increases the likelihood of missing on future opportunities. Perfect example of that is drafting Thomas over Herbert because we already had Jones.
A "perfect example" of this????
Why is that a perfect example? The giants should have picked Herbert and passed on an OL and then get rid of Jones?? I'm certain nobody in the building thinks that would have been a good idea, but you foist that shit out there as if it isn't just a no-brainer, but that Herbert was seen as a sure thing.
Why wasn't he the first QB taken? Or the 2nd QB taken??
But Judge knows a couple things:
1. Gettleman's job security is worse than his
2. Mara doesn't want a ride consecutive two year head coach
Judge knows he can wait out Gettleman, and Gettleman's marriage to Jones.
Personally I think Judge probably can't wait to be rid of Jones.
I couldn't care less what you call it, buzz words don't do anything for me. Just don't know why they are such a sticking point around here.
But Judge knows a couple things:
1. Gettleman's job security is worse than his
2. Mara doesn't want a ride consecutive two year head coach
Judge knows he can wait out Gettleman, and Gettleman's marriage to Jones.
Personally I think Judge probably can't wait to be rid of Jones.
So again - Judge is very intelligent sounding when he speaks, and will proactively speak highly of Jones, but in that particular case, it is just him covering up a dislike for the player and the GM??
Do you even follow your own fucking logic from thread to thread or post to post?
But Judge knows a couple things:
1. Gettleman's job security is worse than his
2. Mara doesn't want a ride consecutive two year head coach
Judge knows he can wait out Gettleman, and Gettleman's marriage to Jones.
Personally I think Judge probably can't wait to be rid of Jones.
LOL! Okay, projection aside, why do you think that Judge "probably can't wait to be rid of Jones?"
I couldn't care less what you call it, buzz words don't do anything for me. Just don't know why they are such a sticking point around here.
I think the difference is what AcesUp stated on the linked thread:
AcesUp : 4/25/2019 9:28 pm : link
In comment 14406877 JonC said:
Quote:
but he did say he thought fan outrage over Eli might force their hand. He was right on that aspect. I don't like the pick.
This pick is the opposite of a PR move. Hell, the biggest thing I respect about it is the willingness to do it in the face of an almost unified backlash from both "sides" of the debate.
And that unified backlash came to fruition.
San Fran won't experience said backlash over whoever they choose because anybody they choose will be considered acceptable and expected.
That makes the Giants conviction that much more real, and not just a buzzword.
But Judge knows a couple things:
1. Gettleman's job security is worse than his
2. Mara doesn't want a ride consecutive two year head coach
Judge knows he can wait out Gettleman, and Gettleman's marriage to Jones.
Personally I think Judge probably can't wait to be rid of Jones.
Yes I disagree with this. Thinking of leadership to want to get rid of a player like Jones doesn't add up. Jones has already shown the physical tools. He has shown he can do it. He works hard to improve. He's what you look for. Have you lead people? Think on the type of kid Jones is and if you've ever been eager to get rid of them. It never happens.
Me personally? I already think Judge has a ton of influence on drafting. I dont think he's worried about DG or any other GM.
It is a huge leap when he has been nothing but positive on Jones and lukewarm on Garrett and those coaches Garrett brought with him (see Marc Colombo). Freddie Kitchens and Derek Dooley were swapped because Kitchens is Judge's preferred OC. It is more likely that Judge blames the poor season on Garrett.
The fact remains that this team (2012-present) sucks.
Bad coaching. Bad drafting. Bad players.
It may not be a huge leap for you, but it's Snake River Canyon for anyone who doesn't wear their bias on their sleeve.
You know, there have been many things in the past on which we've agreed, but at this point you've just become an insufferable bore. I don't think you should go root for another team. I do think you want the Giants to win as much as I do, or anyone else on the board. I just wish you'd be less of a dick about it.
Look, we know you don’t like Jones, but say the Giants jettison him. Is there a quarterback in the draft or on the roster who can do the job and do it well and how much are you willing to give up to get them?
I like Jones a bit more now than I did then, but I am far from sold on him as a long term winning player for NYG. I'm rooting for him. I'd rather be wrong.
Your dislike of Gettleman AND Jones so colors your vision you make stupid comment after stupid comment.
I have my doubts about Jones like any sane person. He DID put up some all timer numbers (both positive and negative to be fair, in his rookie year.) Then, new coach, new OC, new system and COVID his second which meant, no real off-season, no OTA's ,abbreviated training camp, heading into a meat grinder early season schedule. NOT exactly an environment conducive to success.
Lets see how he does this year and then make our comments. I am pretty confident that if JJ doesn't see him as the long term answer after this year, he will have DG wave "bye-bye"
You supposedly didn't join until 2019.
And while many may have wanted Allen, more wanted Darnold. And just as many Allen fans wanted rosen.
It's possible to view BBI without registering. But I'm no dupe. I have used either this handle or Spanky185 on almost every forum I've joined in the last 15 years.
His completion percentage was about the same, significantly cut down on his turnovers.
a season described as "meh" would be a better description. Good enough? absolutely not. But terrible? get a grip man
So it's not like he's been predisposed to being anti-Jones from the start.
So it's not like he's been predisposed to being anti-Jones from the start.
Everybody knew the Giants liked Jones.
So it's not like he's been predisposed to being anti-Jones from the start.
Everybody knew the Giants liked Jones.
Yup. Your incessant insulting of Dave Gettleman goes way beyond philosophical disagreement. Your take on Judge's feelings towards Jones is laughable in that it's on obvious projection on your part. You've become a caricature of yourself. In essence, you've been acting like a dick.
So it's not like he's been predisposed to being anti-Jones from the start.
I made a mistake with Jones I'll never make again. I watched and was swayed by his Pro Day. There's a quote from a scout in the recent McGinn QB article about not paying attention to the QBs throwing against air.
Mistake on my part, definitely.
I'm not worried about being wrong anywhere. I do try to learn from it though.
Quote:
is Terps called Jones as the pick to the Giants in February/March of 2019. I even think he may have liked Jones's workout that year. Which is problematic, but that's another issue entirely... ;)
So it's not like he's been predisposed to being anti-Jones from the start.
Everybody knew the Giants liked Jones.
But Terps make the call that Jones was going to be the pick, I believe, right after the Senior Bowl, and some reporting that Gettleman was spotted drooling in the stands like a dog waiting for his dinner.
I remember he and I kicking it around and connecting all of the dots that played in Jones's favor.
I made a mistake with Jones I'll never make again. I watched and was swayed by his Pro Day. There's a quote from a scout in the recent McGinn QB article about not paying attention to the QBs throwing against air.
Mistake on my part, definitely.
Just busting your chops. I tend to be a real sucker for Pro Days. I actually think they tell a lot if viewed correctly. I'll never forget watching the Haskins PD and being shocked how out of shape he was. I thought the OSU staff was going to pull the emergency defibrillator box from the wall...
He is NOT afraid to throw to a covered receiver. Golloday and Rudolph are absolutely perfect fits. If we land him another weapon, people are going to eat some crow. Get ready for a big helping, because if that happens, Barkley is going to have a big year as well.
I am excited to watch NYG football this year.
He is NOT afraid to throw to a covered receiver. Golloday and Rudolph are absolutely perfect fits. If we land him another weapon, people are going to eat some crow. Get ready for a big helping, because if that happens, Barkley is going to have a big year as well.
I am excited to watch NYG football this year.
He needs to have a great year. My prediction is modest improvement and lots of excuses.
Exactly!! This is it in a nutshell.
who gives a fuck if a poster was wrong in a pre-draft assessment of a player? Why would one even care?
When I say some posters would rather be proven right than the team win, this sort of nails it right on the head.
You must have done something wrong.
Tell the truth by any chance?
Quote:
Jones is going to have a good year if his weapons play 75% of the games. I have gone back a watched all of his throws through college and with NYG.
He is NOT afraid to throw to a covered receiver. Golloday and Rudolph are absolutely perfect fits. If we land him another weapon, people are going to eat some crow. Get ready for a big helping, because if that happens, Barkley is going to have a big year as well.
I am excited to watch NYG football this year.
He needs to have a great year. My prediction is modest improvement and lots of excuses.
I think he will be better than that. I think he wil be pushing to get into the top 10. 9,10,11,12. If he repeats 2020 he is gone and so is DG. This is where some of you have put yourself in a weird spot.
If Jones does very well, as Giants fans, you would want to be happy. Some of you have said so much garbage, that if he has year to make us happy, you are going to look like morons and when DG stays because of it, each NYG win is going to be like spoonfuls of cod liver oil for you.
Why do that?
I'd still reluctantly make the pick. I want to see him in year 3. You don't get to use a time machine. I like that he can run and has a very accurate arm. It's the other crap that needs to be be refined. Year 3 should be very telling.
The guy has to win games and not hold the team back. Modest improvement? These NFL careers, every sport really, every frickin week there's a referendum on a player's place in the annals of his sport. Shut up already. Modest improvement won't be enough? Bullshit. If Jones has modest or decent numbers and the Giants win games he will be back in year 4. Save me the bullshit about draft status and whether he's top 10 or top 5 or top shove it up your ass. He has to win. You take it one year at a time and develop. You get better every year. And when the window is open and the playoffs are there for the taking, you blow that door down and win it all. Then the loud mouth talkies will find something else to hyper analyse.
Just win. Show that you can play PRO QB and win a lot of games.
Completely agree.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
Yeah. We've been hearing the "no other QB would succeed here" stuff on the daily ... since ... 2011. How's that working out for us again?
I remember this place used to be somewhat fun. I do remember.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
Disagree. You're telling me Mahomes isn't good if he's a Giant? He's not the KC Mahomes, but he doesn't 'suck'.
Quote:
in the wrong scheme/system will be screwed regardless of his talents.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
Disagree. You're telling me Mahomes isn't good if he's a Giant? He's not the KC Mahomes, but he doesn't 'suck'.
With our OL all these years? You saw how he did with a “similar” OL in the Supe..You can’t keep running for your life
Our offensive lines have been miserable from opening day each season. Why is that?
This is a good point. This would be the year to do it.
Our offensive lines have been miserable from opening day each season. Why is that?
This offensive line is pretty damn young (or inexperienced at the position like Gates) and they were definitely in the mediocre section of NFL offensive lines in the 2nd half of last year. This offensive line as constructed right now is an above-average run blocking unit. All the hullabulo about Gallman was really the offensive line. Just look at Gallman's career splits vs last year. If you extrapolate that to what Saquon was usually giving us, we are looking at 6 ypc back. Once we get Saquon going, we can run a ton of PA to keep the defensive rush honest to help them in their subpar pass blocking. Not to mention I expect them to add IOL help in round 2 or 3 that will hopefully contribute.
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year. I can almost bank Judge doesnt think they will draft in the top 10 next year and its a fairly deep QB class. One in which his mentor is looking to trade up from 15 supposedly.
This is a good point. This would be the year to do it.
I don't think Judge has that kind of sway. Gettleman is still the GM.
Our offensive lines have been miserable from opening day each season. Why is that?
The point is that an offensive line that’s off it’s game for whatever reason (not good line, injuries) will sink any quarterback, even one as skilled as Patrick Mahomes.
Not questioning Mahomes’ talent, but the McAdoo thing is overrated. We really had no chance to get him without a huge cost AT THE TIME..Now of course, would the 11 other teams (or whatever the number was) who passed on him THEN, pass on him NOW? It’s easy for McAdoo to say what he did, but is there any real proof that he really tried to convince Reese to pull the trigger? Even if there is, we weren’t close enough to even think about getting him, imo
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In comment 15234130 BigBlueCane said:
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in the wrong scheme/system will be screwed regardless of his talents.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
Disagree. You're telling me Mahomes isn't good if he's a Giant? He's not the KC Mahomes, but he doesn't 'suck'.
With our OL all these years? You saw how he did with a “similar” OL in the Supe..You can’t keep running for your life
Yeah, but they made the Super Bowl and had one of the best offense all season with that crappy line.
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Mahomes wouldn't be the all world talent we've seen thus far, but if he's a Giant, this team is infinitely better. As much grief as McAdoo gets-from yours truly too-he was right about Mahomes. Sadly so were others ahead of us.
Not questioning Mahomes’ talent, but the McAdoo thing is overrated. We really had no chance to get him without a huge cost AT THE TIME..Now of course, would the 11 other teams (or whatever the number was) who passed on him THEN, pass on him NOW? It’s easy for McAdoo to say what he did, but is there any real proof that he really tried to convince Reese to pull the trigger? Even if there is, we weren’t close enough to even think about getting him, imo
The Mahomes shit doesn't mean much at all.
McAdoo just wanted off Eli (rightly) but that's more because his offense sucks and needs a mobile QB to run it. Or maybe just Aaron Rogers.
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In comment 15234603 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 15234130 BigBlueCane said:
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in the wrong scheme/system will be screwed regardless of his talents.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
Disagree. You're telling me Mahomes isn't good if he's a Giant? He's not the KC Mahomes, but he doesn't 'suck'.
With our OL all these years? You saw how he did with a “similar” OL in the Supe..You can’t keep running for your life
Yeah, but they made the Super Bowl and had one of the best offense all season with that crappy line.
So you’re saying that KC had a crappy OL MOST of the year?
Who said he was? Lol
And what did Reid do? Go get the best UFA guard on the market and trade for an All Pro left tackle.
That’s the type of commitment I’d personally like to see paid to the line.
The prospect of the Giants counting on the group from last year minus the underwhelming, but competent Zeitler is distressing. I’ve never hoped the Giants pick a position like I hope they do offensive guard this year in round one.
And what did Reid do? Go get the best UFA guard on the market and trade for an All Pro left tackle.
That’s the type of commitment I’d personally like to see paid to the line.
The prospect of the Giants counting on the group from last year minus the underwhelming, but competent Zeitler is distressing. I’ve never hoped the Giants pick a position like I hope they do offensive guard this year in round one.
Preaching to the choir here. I've been all over this.
Mahomes is multiple times the QB Jones will ever be. And the Chiefs are doing EVERYTHING possible to build him the best wall. Not screwing around and bringing in proven players who can execute blocking.
Meanwhile, our QB who struggles to make reads, absolutely needs an OL upgrade of the highest order to buy more time. So what do we do? We are going to roll the dice with a bunch of young drafted guys (most who were very up and, mostly, down), a UDFA who had the year of a lifetime (so he may come back to Earth), and a returning T who hasn't played in almost two years.
If anybody should have spent like the Chiefs to improve the OL it should have been the those at One Giants Way.
I've written many times, but we may regret the day we forked over a king's ransom for LW instead of using that money to really bolster the OL with some very attractive, proven FA OLs.
I hope Jones has been doing sprints this off-season because he may be running for his career if this OL doesn't get better...
With that said, DG made it clear he wanted to fix the OL for good and he follows that up with the line we have today. One makes me think we find a way to sign another veteran OL after the draft, at least i hope because I am not confident in what we have at the moment.
Long story short, Judge and a few FA signings gave DG just enough rope to hang himself. He doubled down on Jones w/ Golladay because he has to, without addressing OL which I think could be a disaster unless he makes a few more moves.
I think this is DG’s last season regardless but he always said his best gift to the Giants would be a franchise QB so hes putting all his chips in hoping it works, just shocked he didn’t do more for the OL.
With that being said that shouldn’t take away from LW. He was excellent last season and should continue to grow. He is instrumental to this defense.
I would have just preferred using that money for bigger needs and gambling that Graham could figure out how to keep the D humming and productive without LW.
I think the Judge comments are Jones are overblown. Judge doesn't say that Jones has actually been good. Judge doesn't point to a specific ability on the football field that contributes to his confidence in him. Toughness and leadership are the sort of platitudes you offer to a player who sucks. I'm sure Jones does some great things in the room. He sounds like a hard-worker. But these comments are worthless to me.
“So I’m not going to point to one moment, but I can talk about this entire season of: This guy has definitely earned my respect. I made it very hard on him from the beginning in a lot of ways and he hasn’t blinked.”
Asked point-blank if the Giants are committed to Jones in 2021, Judge did not hesitate.
“Daniel Jones is our quarterback,” Judge said emphatically.
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In comment 15234619 Big Blue '56 said:
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In comment 15234603 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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In comment 15234130 BigBlueCane said:
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in the wrong scheme/system will be screwed regardless of his talents.
And judging by the dumpster fire the Giants have been since 20011, you could have any QB playing for them and they'd still suck.
Let's see if Judge is the right guy or not, yet first.
Disagree. You're telling me Mahomes isn't good if he's a Giant? He's not the KC Mahomes, but he doesn't 'suck'.
With our OL all these years? You saw how he did with a “similar” OL in the Supe..You can’t keep running for your life
Yeah, but they made the Super Bowl and had one of the best offense all season with that crappy line.
So you’re saying that KC had a crappy OL MOST of the year?
No..just the playoffs and the regular season last quartile.
I think the Judge comments are Jones are overblown. Judge doesn't say that Jones has actually been good. Judge doesn't point to a specific ability on the football field that contributes to his confidence in him. Toughness and leadership are the sort of platitudes you offer to a player who sucks. I'm sure Jones does some great things in the room. He sounds like a hard-worker. But these comments are worthless to me.
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“I don’t know if there’s an ‘aha’ moment,” Judge said. “To me, it’s a string of moments watching Daniel work. Watching the respect he has in the locker room. Watching him improve throughout this season. I think he’s demonstrated a level of toughness and leadership and knowledge on the field that gives us confidence to put him out there and build with Daniel.
“So I’m not going to point to one moment, but I can talk about this entire season of: This guy has definitely earned my respect. I made it very hard on him from the beginning in a lot of ways and he hasn’t blinked.”
Asked point-blank if the Giants are committed to Jones in 2021, Judge did not hesitate.
“Daniel Jones is our quarterback,” Judge said emphatically.
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“We have confidence in Daniel, he’s a player that we want to work with going forward with this team. He’s shown us a lot of improvement, there’s a lot of things. I can go on and on about how we respect him and like him and how the locker room responds to him, but the simple answer to that is no, [our stance on Jones has not changed],” Judge told reporters at the start of free agency.
Preach.. you are correct. Winding up with Jones when Herbert and Allen were gettable will haunt us.
WTF? Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
As for Herbert, how is he gettable if Jones or allen is selected?
How many drafts are you going to go through to pick the better QB's out and say they were "gettable"??
Darnold and Rosen were gettable too. As for that matter, so was Haskins.
Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
WTF? Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
As for Herbert, how is he gettable if Jones or allen is selected?
How many drafts are you going to go through to pick the better QB's out and say they were "gettable"??
Darnold and Rosen were gettable too. As for that matter, so was Haskins.
you can laugh all you want. If you think considering three or four years worth of prospects to find an elite QB is beyond the scope of the GM, you are entitled to your opinion. But I know you are wrong. When you are deciding the direction of a lousy franchise you plan in blocks of years. You don't just pick the QB in front of you because you need a QB. And in case you need to be reminded, there was nothing exceptional about Daniel Jones, and there remains nothing exceptional about Daniel Jones. Jones is a guy DG selected because he decided, *now I need a QB*. The differences between Allen/Herbert and Jones are clear. The latter guys have transcendent arm talent and are better athletes than Jones. They were far superior QB prospects.
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
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"Herbert and Allen were gettable"???
WTF? Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
As for Herbert, how is he gettable if Jones or allen is selected?
How many drafts are you going to go through to pick the better QB's out and say they were "gettable"??
Darnold and Rosen were gettable too. As for that matter, so was Haskins.
you can laugh all you want. If you think considering three or four years worth of prospects to find an elite QB is beyond the scope of the GM, you are entitled to your opinion. But I know you are wrong. When you are deciding the direction of a lousy franchise you plan in blocks of years. You don't just pick the QB in front of you because you need a QB. And in case you need to be reminded, there was nothing exceptional about Daniel Jones, and there remains nothing exceptional about Daniel Jones. Jones is a guy DG selected because he decided, *now I need a QB*. The differences between Allen/Herbert and Jones are clear. The latter guys have transcendent arm talent and are better athletes than Jones. They were far superior QB prospects.
I think I'll just laugh at keep it at that. Thanks for reminding me there was nothing exceptional about Jones.
I'm assuming you can tell who is exceptional and who isn't, then?? And the experts did not consider them both "far superior" prospects. You must subscribe to bw's revisionist history. Par for the course.
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
This times a trillion.
Josh Allen was the top player in the draft? and you are saying my history is revisionist? Fuck off. Josh Allen was never in the discussion to go #1.
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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"Herbert and Allen were gettable"???
WTF? Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
As for Herbert, how is he gettable if Jones or allen is selected?
How many drafts are you going to go through to pick the better QB's out and say they were "gettable"??
Darnold and Rosen were gettable too. As for that matter, so was Haskins.
you can laugh all you want. If you think considering three or four years worth of prospects to find an elite QB is beyond the scope of the GM, you are entitled to your opinion. But I know you are wrong. When you are deciding the direction of a lousy franchise you plan in blocks of years. You don't just pick the QB in front of you because you need a QB. And in case you need to be reminded, there was nothing exceptional about Daniel Jones, and there remains nothing exceptional about Daniel Jones. Jones is a guy DG selected because he decided, *now I need a QB*. The differences between Allen/Herbert and Jones are clear. The latter guys have transcendent arm talent and are better athletes than Jones. They were far superior QB prospects.
I think I'll just laugh at keep it at that. Thanks for reminding me there was nothing exceptional about Jones.
I'm assuming you can tell who is exceptional and who isn't, then?? And the experts did not consider them both "far superior" prospects. You must subscribe to bw's revisionist history. Par for the course.
You are living in fantasy land. Greg Cosell has said of Herbert that when he was on the field with him at the combine that his arm power, general physical strength, and athleticism is off the charts. He said he is just a different cat. And Allen is bigger with more arm talent than that. Jones isn't with these guys FMiC. Not physically. If you can't admit this basic truth, what are you doing wasting your time here.
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
This times a trillion.
Who was your pick, Terps? Honestly. At the time of the draft.
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
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Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Josh Allen was the top player in the draft? and you are saying my history is revisionist? Fuck off. Josh Allen was never in the discussion to go #1.
There was plenty of buzz in the 2 months prior to the draft that the Browns at #1 or the Jets at #3 might draft Allen. It wasn't until the last 7 days that Baker emerged as the guy. And I am sure now that the Browns know they made the wrong choice.
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In comment 15234915 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
Not true. Allen was in the mix with the rest of them. He was seen as raw and inaccurate but with great physical tools.
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Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Josh Allen was the top player in the draft? and you are saying my history is revisionist? Fuck off. Josh Allen was never in the discussion to go #1.
There was plenty of buzz in the 2 months prior to the draft that the Browns at #1 or the Jets at #3 might draft Allen. It wasn't until the last 7 days that Baker emerged as the guy. And I am sure now that the Browns know they made the wrong choice.
That's bullshit. You are just making shit up now.
If you look at the prospect list, Allen ranged from #2 to #6 in QB prospects. In most projections, he was behind Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen.
Are you going to try and say Jackson was the consensus #2 QB, next or are you done making up shit?
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In comment 15234930 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Josh Allen was the top player in the draft? and you are saying my history is revisionist? Fuck off. Josh Allen was never in the discussion to go #1.
There was plenty of buzz in the 2 months prior to the draft that the Browns at #1 or the Jets at #3 might draft Allen. It wasn't until the last 7 days that Baker emerged as the guy. And I am sure now that the Browns know they made the wrong choice.
That's bullshit. You are just making shit up now.
If you look at the prospect list, Allen ranged from #2 to #6 in QB prospects. In most projections, he was behind Mayfield, Darnold and Rosen.
Are you going to try and say Jackson was the consensus #2 QB, next or are you done making up shit?
No, Lamar was never considered for the top of the draft. But Allen was.
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In comment 15234921 Producer said:
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In comment 15234915 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
Not true. Allen was in the mix with the rest of them. He was seen as raw and inaccurate but with great physical tools.
Nice moving of the goalposts. Though I will give you some had Allen over Rosen for QB3.
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
This times a trillion.
Who was your pick, Terps? Honestly. At the time of the draft.
Which draft?
2018 - Jackson - best player in that draft
2019 - Hockenson - best way to help Eli, Barkley, and Shurmur. Drafting a quarterback while paying Eli was idiotic.
Who were you before, anyway?
By the way - 2 of those mocks had Darnold going to Cleveland. I can't find any mock where Allen was going anywhere higher than the 3rd QB selected.
To say he was rated above saquon and Darnold is absolute nonsense. Darnold was the “best QB prospect since Luck” was the general consensus. Don’t try saying that wasn’t the case.
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Who cares if the #2 QB in a particular draft isn’t worthy of a first round pick?
Or how can you not if the #3 QB is worthy of a top 10 pick?
Chucklehead to the end...
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In comment 15234936 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15234921 Producer said:
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In comment 15234915 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
Not true. Allen was in the mix with the rest of them. He was seen as raw and inaccurate but with great physical tools.
Nice moving of the goalposts. Though I will give you some had Allen over Rosen for QB3.
move what goalpost? You must not understand that expression. Mayfield emerged as a frontrunner late in the process, and it was a surprise. Many had Mayfield 4th, early on. And in the weeks preceding the draft it was Darnold and Allen that were the top 2 QBs.
There's actual football talk here, Clown.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Let me make sure I understand your position - you don't think Allen was in any discussion as the one of the best QBs in the 2018 draft?
Kiper had him as the #1 QB from January '18 right to draft day.
Should I get more? Or should I wait for you to disparage Kiper first?
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In comment 15234941 Producer said:
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In comment 15234936 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15234921 Producer said:
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In comment 15234915 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
Not true. Allen was in the mix with the rest of them. He was seen as raw and inaccurate but with great physical tools.
Nice moving of the goalposts. Though I will give you some had Allen over Rosen for QB3.
move what goalpost? You must not understand that expression. Mayfield emerged as a frontrunner late in the process, and it was a surprise. Many had Mayfield 4th, early on. And in the weeks preceding the draft it was Darnold and Allen that were the top 2 QBs.
You went from Allen was the top player in the draft by many to Allen was in the mix with a number of QB’s when you were called out on the former.
Comic relief...
I would have just preferred using that money for bigger needs and gambling that Graham could figure out how to keep the D humming and productive without LW.
Graham was great, but if you ask any defensive coordinator in the league, give me two starting pieces. They'll almost all say interior disruptor and cornerback. Party of what made Graham look good, was Betcher's clowns were hilariously unorganized in the back and the addition of Bradberry.
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Let me make sure I understand your position - you don't think Allen was in any discussion as the one of the best QBs in the 2018 draft?
Kiper had him as the #1 QB from January '18 right to draft day.
Should I get more? Or should I wait for you to disparage Kiper first?
McShay had him 2nd to Darnold on April 26. The revisionism is absurd.
A 2018 History Lesson for bw - ( New Window )
Because if he’s not, the pick blows.
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Let me make sure I understand your position - you don't think Allen was in any discussion as the one of the best QBs in the 2018 draft?
Kiper had him as the #1 QB from January '18 right to draft day.
Should I get more? Or should I wait for you to disparage Kiper first?
Escape Hatch coming.
Make a hole...
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In comment 15234946 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15234941 Producer said:
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In comment 15234936 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15234921 Producer said:
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In comment 15234915 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
Not true. Allen was in the mix with the rest of them. He was seen as raw and inaccurate but with great physical tools.
Nice moving of the goalposts. Though I will give you some had Allen over Rosen for QB3.
move what goalpost? You must not understand that expression. Mayfield emerged as a frontrunner late in the process, and it was a surprise. Many had Mayfield 4th, early on. And in the weeks preceding the draft it was Darnold and Allen that were the top 2 QBs.
You went from Allen was the top player in the draft by many to Allen was in the mix with a number of QB’s when you were called out on the former.
Nope. I never said he was the top player in the draft.
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In comment 15234925 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
This times a trillion.
Who was your pick, Terps? Honestly. At the time of the draft.
Which draft?
2018 - Jackson - best player in that draft
2019 - Hockenson - best way to help Eli, Barkley, and Shurmur. Drafting a quarterback while paying Eli was idiotic.
Who were you before, anyway?
I look at the draft in 2019 and I'm not completely against the Jones selection. But I also wouldn't have minded trading back for assets. The verdict will be read this year and next.
As to your question, I haven't hid who I am. I played at Syracuse, lost my wife this past year and have the same ugly, divisive, disgusting and vulgar vocabulary that I had a couple years ago.
Because if he’s not, the pick blows.
This made me laugh because its so true. Who cares about what if’s. Jones needs to step up or we have wasted another 5 years
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In comment 15234956 Producer said:
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In comment 15234946 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15234941 Producer said:
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In comment 15234936 Mike in NY said:
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In comment 15234921 Producer said:
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In comment 15234915 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
Very few people had Allen as the #1 QB, or even #2. He was considered anywhere from 3-5. At least Jones was considered by some to be the #2 QB in the draft.
I know it doesn't fit your narrative that Allen was a sure-fire pick, but I can't help you get a better view of history if you continually want to change it.
Your revisionism is ridiculous. Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft. He was going anywhere from #1 to #10. Whereas Jones was considered by many, *MANY*, to be a 2nd or 3rd round prospect. Don't put Jones in the same class as Allen. Don't embarrass yourself. Coming out, there was no comparison.
Very few had Allen as Top QB let alone Top player. Most had Mayfield, Darnold, and Rosen in some order.
Not true. Allen was in the mix with the rest of them. He was seen as raw and inaccurate but with great physical tools.
Nice moving of the goalposts. Though I will give you some had Allen over Rosen for QB3.
move what goalpost? You must not understand that expression. Mayfield emerged as a frontrunner late in the process, and it was a surprise. Many had Mayfield 4th, early on. And in the weeks preceding the draft it was Darnold and Allen that were the top 2 QBs.
You went from Allen was the top player in the draft by many to Allen was in the mix with a number of QB’s when you were called out on the former.
Nope. I never said he was the top player in the draft.
In your 10:11 PM post you said: “... Many had Josh Allen the top player in the draft.”
Because if he’s not, the pick blows.
Don’t be silly. It’s far more important he was the #2 rated QB in the Fmic mock draft that year...
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The more pertinent question is really *is Daniel Jones a franchise quarterback.*
Because if he’s not, the pick blows.
Don’t be silly. It’s far more important he was the #2 rated QB in the Fmic mock draft that year...
Clownshoes. you keep referencing an escape hatch - you might want to take it here. There's actual football talk going on and well, there's little a clown can add.
Notice his #1 QB.
Josh Allen #1 QB - ( New Window )
Notice his #1 QB. Josh Allen #1 QB - ( New Window )
And Saquon Barkley was his best overall player
I don't see the relevancy, but okay.
Can you be any more ridiculous just to bitch and argue?
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from 2018. This is what I was referring to...my bad for confusing it with Kiper's final mock.
Notice his #1 QB. Josh Allen #1 QB - ( New Window )
And Saquon Barkley was his best overall player
Okay, but that's not the conversation.
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In comment 15234934 Bricktop said:
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In comment 15234925 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15234909 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15234902 FatMan in Charlotte said:
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Picking Allen would've been considered a stretch at the time and seeing he struggled in Buffalo year 1, not sure how he's lighting it up here.
If Allen would have been considered a stretch than what the hell was Jones??
This times a trillion.
Who was your pick, Terps? Honestly. At the time of the draft.
Which draft?
2018 - Jackson - best player in that draft
2019 - Hockenson - best way to help Eli, Barkley, and Shurmur. Drafting a quarterback while paying Eli was idiotic.
Who were you before, anyway?
I look at the draft in 2019 and I'm not completely against the Jones selection. But I also wouldn't have minded trading back for assets. The verdict will be read this year and next.
As to your question, I haven't hid who I am. I played at Syracuse, lost my wife this past year and have the same ugly, divisive, disgusting and vulgar vocabulary that I had a couple years ago.
I didn't ask to accuse of anything, I just wasn't sure. I don't give a shit if posters change their handles. Cool to see you back, but hate to hear about your loss. I'm really sorry.
Allen is his #2 QB.
Mayock, btw, is a current GM in the NFL.
Mayock - ( New Window )
As to the Jones pick - we're entering into a vortex of revisionist history. I mean, at that point - looking at the board - is Allen the pick?
I'm not even sure I'm trading back knowing the QB class in 2020. Imo, the Giants were in a no-win situation. Is it a reach? Yes. And I don't think that's debatable. Was it the right pick? Yeah, I think so. And I'm ok with it now. They're cultivating some pieces to answer all questions. I'm fine with that.