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NYG 2021 1st-Round Pick: WR Kadarius Toney

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/29/2021 10:45 pm
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RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15243541 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15243522 Sean said:


Quote:


In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:


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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.

Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.

Tough to reconcile that...


So, you’re upset they traded down?



Not at all. The red flag issue here is very intriguing to me. I'd love to know what disqualified Parsons...


How the hell do you know Parsons was disqualified?

Sy isn't the only scout. And not everyone had this kid as a second - third rounder. Some actually had him worthy of pick 20. I know this for a fact.
Parsons  
JonC : 4/30/2021 11:01 am : link
was off the board.
The inconsistent hands  
tyrik13 : 4/30/2021 11:01 am : link
Thing isn’t right. Out of 150 catches he dropped 3 passes his whole career there. Only reason people saying his hands are inconsistent is because he dropped some passes at the senior bowl during practice. He actually has very good hands
RE: With  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:03 am : link
In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.


Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
RE: You guys wanted another Plaxico ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15243392 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Looks like we got him.

I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.

How do rappers and thugs have anything to do with each other, besides overt racism?
RE: Parsons  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15244972 JonC said:
Quote:
was off the board.

There you have it, DJM.
RE: RE: You guys wanted another Plaxico ...  
Dr. D : 4/30/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15244928 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15243392 Spider56 said:


Quote:


Looks like we got him.

I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.

I would have preferred if he was a country singer.

I'd prefer that he sang in the style of Greg Lake of ELP or a younger Roger Daltrey. Oh well.
lol  
ryanmkeane : 4/30/2021 11:18 am : link
"thug rapper" - he literally said in the FIRST interview that it's just a hobby thing.

Also - Cole Beasley has a rap career. Gee i wonder why some people don't think that's an issue...
anyone have any info on his other career  
Dave : 4/30/2021 11:18 am : link
as a rapper, Joka?
I also like the idea  
JFIB : 4/30/2021 11:18 am : link
Of putting him in the backfield with Saquan. Flanking DJ and faking the screen to one and then throwing it to the other.
RE: RE: With  
AcidTest : 4/30/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15244983 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?


I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
RE: RE: With  
10thAve : 4/30/2021 11:21 am : link
In comment 15244983 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?

“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.

Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.
Toney came back to graduate  
ryanmkeane : 4/30/2021 11:25 am : link
and play his senior season...and then dominated
This has been a very enjoyable off-season so far. Let's see what  
Ira : 4/30/2021 11:27 am : link
the Giants have in store for us tonight and tomorrow.
Besides being a rapper  
Big Al : 4/30/2021 11:31 am : link
he puts ketchup on his hot dogs. That should have put him off our list.
4.39  
bc4life : 4/30/2021 11:36 am : link
is not fast.

Flat earth analytics on BBI
AcidTest  
MojoEd : 4/30/2021 11:43 am : link
Interesting point is that the 2018 events weren’t “legal problems”; judgement problems yes, but it doesn’t look like he broke any laws.
RE: RE: RE: With  
AcidTest : 4/30/2021 11:44 am : link
In comment 15245068 10thAve said:
Quote:
In comment 15244983 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?


“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.

Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.


I was referring to his judgment, not his football IQ, but I agree the phrase was inappropriate, and the last of the incidents was three years ago. His talent is awesome, but I would have nonetheless wanted a cleaner player at #20, especially after the Baker fiasco. Like many others, I would have taken Paye.
Toney  
GF1080 : 4/30/2021 11:45 am : link
Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
Scooter185 : 4/30/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15244902 Dr. D said:
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In comment 15243650 Thegratefulhead said:


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Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?


We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?

The constant negativity is tiresome.


You can't just hand wave away a decade of suckage and bad decisions. People will get TF over it when they actually win. As good as the team appears on paper, it's meaningless until it's proven on the field.

As far as the draft pick goes, I don't mind it and the trade down was masterfully done. Even if the pick is a bust getting thw bears #1 is great
Is it me or does the Toney pick feel like a pick of need vs  
Dinger : 4/30/2021 11:51 am : link
BPA? I mean it seems like we were ready to take Smith, got jumped, then were able to trade back and get a WR. So were we looking to focus on a position of perceived need, ie WR, and not so much worried about BPA? I don't know what player at 11 I would have been happy with. I thought Paye but he wound up going 21st!, maybe Parsons, maybe Farley or AVT. But at 20, I EXPECTED, Paye or OL or another EDGE. I feel like there will be more WR available day 2. Just hope they are right with KT.
RE: RE: Parsons  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:52 am : link
In comment 15244991 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15244972 JonC said:


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was off the board.


There you have it, DJM.


Oh well. If true, it is what it is. I love Parsons. He's going to be a defensive playmaker in dallas. they don't give a fuck about maniacs.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
Bill L : 4/30/2021 11:53 am : link
In comment 15244877 The Mike said:
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In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


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Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.

Not all character questions are identical.
I find it hard to believe  
Carson53 : 4/30/2021 11:54 am : link
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
Bill L : 4/30/2021 11:55 am : link
In comment 15244877 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


Quote:


Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.


Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?

I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.
RE: I find it hard to believe  
jvm52106 : 4/30/2021 11:56 am : link
In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:
Quote:
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.


Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
RE: RE: RE: With  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:57 am : link
In comment 15245064 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 15244983 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?



I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.


all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.

Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.
RE: AcidTest  
Carson53 : 4/30/2021 11:58 am : link
In comment 15245146 MojoEd said:
Quote:
Interesting point is that the 2018 events weren’t “legal problems”; judgement problems yes, but it doesn’t look like he broke any laws.
.


What did Toney do in college?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
Jimmy Googs : 4/30/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15244902 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15243650 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:



Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?


We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?

The constant negativity is tiresome.


Much like your posts regarding it...
RE: RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
The Mike : 4/30/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15245206 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15244877 The Mike said:


Quote:


In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


Quote:


Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.



Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?

I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.


I was just making the point that the best of evaluators can be wrong on character. Time will tell on Parsons v Toney character.

Laremy Tunsil was off the Giants board because of "character" so they took Eli Apple. Big mistake. Huge.
RE: RE: RE: RE: With  
AcidTest : 4/30/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15245218 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15245064 AcidTest said:


Quote:


In comment 15244983 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?



I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.



all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.

Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.


Agreed.
RE: RE: I find it hard to believe  
Carson53 : 4/30/2021 12:02 pm : link
In comment 15245211 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:


Quote:


he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.



Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
.

Your commentary is comical, they traded back nine spots for a jack-of- all kinds type of player, sorry if that doesn't excite me.
Steve Smith was bigger than Toney, do your homework.
Toney is faster.
RE: Toney  
Jimmy Googs : 4/30/2021 12:03 pm : link
In comment 15245154 GF1080 said:
Quote:
Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.


Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?

thanks in advance
RE: RE: RE: Parsons  
bw in dc : 4/30/2021 12:06 pm : link
In comment 15245189 djm said:
Quote:

Oh well. If true, it is what it is. I love Parsons. He's going to be a defensive playmaker in dallas. they don't give a fuck about maniacs.


That was very funny...
RE: I find it hard to believe  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 12:10 pm : link
In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:
Quote:
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.

Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'.

Link - ( New Window )
RE: RE: I find it hard to believe  
Carson53 : 4/30/2021 12:16 pm : link
In comment 15245256 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:


Quote:


he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.


Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'. Link - ( New Window )
.

According to ESPN.com, that's what I saw.
Either way, he doesn't look very big on film.
Hey, there was some player drafted that was suppose to be
6'2'', and it turns out he is only 6 feet tall.
One is never quite sure, on these things.
Duggan wrote on the Athletic  
US1 Giants : 4/30/2021 12:17 pm : link
that Tony has released two albums under his rap moniker Yung Joka.
Carson53  
MojoEd : 4/30/2021 12:19 pm : link
From what I read it was two incidents related to a beef “locals” had with the football players stemming from $ lost betting on the team. First, the locals confronted the players at their dorm and threatened to return “strapped.” When they came back, the players met them and T and another player had airsoft rifles. If you don’t know, airsofts are like a cross between a BB/paintball type guns that are made to look like real guns. Second, after a traffic stop, officer noted a real AR15 on the back seat of his car. Apparently that is legal in FL; T explained he had the gun for protection against the “locals.” There could be more to the story, but that is what I read.
RE: Carson53  
Carson53 : 4/30/2021 12:21 pm : link
In comment 15245279 MojoEd said:
Quote:
From what I read it was two incidents related to a beef “locals” had with the football players stemming from $ lost betting on the team. First, the locals confronted the players at their dorm and threatened to return “strapped.” When they came back, the players met them and T and another player had airsoft rifles. If you don’t know, airsofts are like a cross between a BB/paintball type guns that are made to look like real guns. Second, after a traffic stop, officer noted a real AR15 on the back seat of his car. Apparently that is legal in FL; T explained he had the gun for protection against the “locals.” There could be more to the story, but that is what I read.
.

Okay, thanks for the info.
RE: RE: Toney  
GF1080 : 4/30/2021 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15245239 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15245154 GF1080 said:


Quote:


Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.



Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?

thanks in advance


Someone tweeted it out but it's from below.

https://receptionperception.com/kadarius-toney-2021-prospect-profile/

Kadarius Toney #ReceptionPerception...

Good: Broke multiple tackles on a class-high 19.6% of his “in space” attempts.

Bad: 13th percentile in success rate vs. man coverage and the 1st percentile against press
RE: Toney  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 4/30/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15245154 GF1080 said:
Quote:
Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.


So you put him in motion until he learns how to get off the jam.
RE: RE: RE: I find it hard to believe  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 12:31 pm : link
In comment 15245274 Carson53 said:
Quote:
In comment 15245256 Gatorade Dunk said:


Quote:


In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:


Quote:


he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.


Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'. Link - ( New Window )

.

According to ESPN.com, that's what I saw.
Either way, he doesn't look very big on film.
Hey, there was some player drafted that was suppose to be
6'2'', and it turns out he is only 6 feet tall.
One is never quite sure, on these things.

I think we can be pretty sure that a guy who NFL.com lists as 6' isn't shorter than 5'9", as you posit.
It's only a problem if you line him up like a typical WR  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/30/2021 12:34 pm : link
And expect him to "figure it out".

This is what presnap motion is for. It's on Garrett to make this work. He's an in space player. You have to scheme ways to get him the ball. RPOs, sweeps, creative formations, screens.

RE: Barkley  
MotownGIANTS : 4/30/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15243610 AcidTest said:
Quote:
is a good comp for Toney, at least in terms of start stop ability, vision, and the ability to successfully maneuver in traffic. Players like that are frustrating because they always seem to squirm away for at least a few extra yards. They make defenders right next to them completely whiff. You need an incredible ability to go immediately from full speed to a total stop to be able to that. Both players can. I do watch a lot of college football, and I've rarely seen a player who does better in traffic than Toney. He's the definition of elusive and slippery, as well as surprisingly strong and tough. Let's hope his character concerns and commitment won't be a problem, but as I said, it's surprising they did this, especially so soon after Baker.


Slippery is a good term he reminds me of Ike Hilliard but stronger. Folks are saying his catch rate is iffy but the numbers trend correctly. Now the talk of him having issues with contested catches looks to stem from body catching that can be coached up ... So hopefully Judge is right about him being unpolished and coachable (alluded to all college players are unfinished which is true) and the catch rate continues to trend upward.
Catch Stats - ( New Window )
...  
ryanmkeane : 4/30/2021 12:58 pm : link
this story won't be cool to anyone but me, but my younger brother's wife's brother went to Florida, he lives in NYC now, good kid, we don't talk much, but he texted me after the Toney pick to say it wouldn't shock him if he's Tyreek/Antonio esque in the NFL, granted he's biased but he thinks he's that good/special
RE: RE: Toney  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/30/2021 1:03 pm : link
In comment 15245239 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15245154 GF1080 said:


Quote:


Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.



Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?

thanks in advance


Is it? If you line him up outside on line, you are using him wrong. We are really going to find out if Garrett is philosophically opposed to motion because Toney should be moving all over the place pre snap.
My concern about Toney is . . . .  
TC : 4/30/2021 1:05 pm : link
that a friend said a friend said that Toney might blow his hand off while shooting himself in the leg on boat ride between games after snorting coke and having had carnal relations with the coach's wife.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
santacruzom : 4/30/2021 3:10 pm : link
In comment 15243650 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:


bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.

Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?


Yes. Yes, he does.
RE: RE: ...  
santacruzom : 4/30/2021 3:14 pm : link
In comment 15243799 Go Terps said:
Quote:

The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.


My prediction is that Shough, the QB who took Herbert's place at Oregon and then transferred to Texas Tech, is going to have a massive year. Then, if we draft him, we'll be subjected to terrible headlines like "The Shough Must Go On."
RE: RE: RE: Toney  
santacruzom : 4/30/2021 3:20 pm : link
In comment 15245298 GF1080 said:
Quote:

Bad: 13th percentile in success rate vs. man coverage and the 1st percentile against press


How is "success rate" measured here? Is it, downs that resulted in him personally catching the ball? Or, downs in which he, I don't know, fell on his ass while trying to free himself from press?

Because if it's the former, maybe they just tended to throw the ball to their mutant TE in almost all of those situations.
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