There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling.
to those guys wanting him.
The inconsistent hands are like deja but all over again, but he’s got speed and he has value at 20.
And, is one more weapon.
Now, OL or Edge in Rd.2.
And LOVE the high #1 next year Fields will give us.
That’s a very good comp.
Good explosion out of routes and cuts. Can run jet sweeps. Twitchy and can burn. The hands and drops scare me a bit but he’s not like butter hands Engram.
Suggests good chance both Engram and Shepard are gone after next season to me.
There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling.
And LOVE the high #1 next year Fields will give us.
That’s a very good comp.
Good explosion out of routes and cuts. Can run jet sweeps. Twitchy and can burn. The hands and drops scare me a bit but he’s not like butter hands Engram.
Suggests good chance both Engram and Shepard are gone after next season to me.
Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
I love the trade back and while I would have gone JOK as the BPA here I totally get the need for weapons for Jones. Gotta be honest, my opinion of the old man goes up tonight, not down.
was the choice at 11 if they were available. Like somebody says it has a "poor man's" feel to it. But you never know maybe the Bama guys were overhyped and this kid will be just as good or better.
But he sure looks fast. Surprised they didn't go D there but not complaining. Wouldn't be drafting too many defenders from "the U" after seeing him run through about 8 of them in that one clip lol.
a fan. Some character concerns, as well as route running and awareness issues. Boom/bust potential. They wanted someone who resembled Smith, but this guy is much too big a risk for #20 IMO. Surprised they did this after the Baker debacle.
Is more Saquon Barkley than anyone in the draft since. He’s special at cutting and exploding. But his speed isn’t even great and he doesn’t play as strong as you’d like.
Still think he could a be guy who Jones relies on for a lot of short throws. Weird pick like I said before but really interesting.
his explosion, especially out of cuts, is terrific. Giants need dynamic players at WR. This guy has a chance to be that.
He should be able to step right in and play the slot.
Shep is likely gone after this season. Hopefully Slayton develops into a reliable outside weapon and he, Golladay and Toney are a great group.
It is incredibly important to have weapons this year for Jones. Hopefully the answer to the "is Jones a franchise quarterback" is answered with a yes after the 2021 season, but even if it's a no the most important thing is it's answered one way or the other. This guy should start from day 1 out of the slot and be able to make plays.
If Jones can't show he's a franchise QB this year with the weapons they now have, then they need to look for another QB next off-season
Kadarius is an offensive weapon. His size, vision, lateral explosion make him unique. Add to that, his natural strength, speed, and eye/hand coordination and you have an offensive weapon who is a match-up nightmare for any defensive back. When he is one on one in the open field he is near impossible to bring down after he catches the ball. He has the strength of a running back with the skills to catch the ball and run the routes of a wide receiver. Kadarius has a high football IQ and he is still learning. He doesn’t take the big hit when you go to tackle him because I swear, he can move his eyes 360 degrees like a chameleon. In the open field, he has the speed and route-running ability to score. In the red zone, he has the quickness to run any route and get open to score. On special teams, he has the sure hands and quickness to make the first man miss and the speed to bring it to the house.
a fan. Some character concerns, as well as route running and awareness issues. Boom/bust potential. They wanted someone who resembled Smith, but this guy is much too big a risk for #20 IMO. Surprised they did this after the Baker debacle.
I dont see any route running issues. The character concerns are a question, but not route running imo. Focus is an issue which leads to some of his drops. I dont think he has bad hands, just a lack of focus sometimes. That can be fixed
But they wanted a more consistent short/intermediate guy. That’s why I think they made this pick. Toney has monster short/intermediate potential if he puts it all together and maintains the athleticism
that the Giants took him. What happened to building the right culture Joe? Toney is the opposite of that. Why would you take a player with character concerns like those and put him in New York?
I think he's pretty boom/bust but we desperately needed an explosive weapon in pass game that isn't coming out of the backfield. He's a player and I don't think it was a reach considering who was available. I just don't think much of these edges outside of Phillips (huge medical history and went anyway) do anything for me this high.
But they wanted a more consistent short/intermediate guy. That’s why I think they made this pick. Toney has monster short/intermediate potential if he puts it all together and maintains the athleticism
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
I think he’s a current starter but not a guy they see getting through a full year and with his cap number and injury history with concussions, he’s not a long term guy.
Why I don’t like it: Character concerns. Not a true polished WR. Inconsistent hands. Average size only.
What I like: Playmaker, can take it to the house anytime he touches the ball. “Multiple”, lined up in the backfield, slot, outside and even threw a few passes. Really good run after the catch guy.
There were a couple other guys I would have rather have had but I’ve seen Toney high on a few lists, just not Sy’s....
Is more Saquon Barkley than anyone in the draft since. He’s special at cutting and exploding. But his speed isn’t even great and he doesn’t play as strong as you’d like.
Still think he could a be guy who Jones relies on for a lot of short throws. Weird pick like I said before but really interesting.
He ran a 4.37 at the combine. I don’t speed is an issue
Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
Samuel is a physical player. A strong runner. So is Toney. Very similar tools and versatility.
This is a really good addition to this offense. Perfect. An explosive slot guy, jet sweeps, quick screens and can run the plays that stretch the field in every way.
But they wanted a more consistent short/intermediate guy. That’s why I think they made this pick. Toney has monster short/intermediate potential if he puts it all together and maintains the athleticism
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
Sheps good as gone after 2021.
As for Toney, he does complement Golladay and Slayton very well.
had Toney as his 4th rated wide receiver. I have no doubt the giants did their homework on these wide receivers and they believe Toney is the best wide receiver available at 20.
like a risk reward pick. Speed and a receiver. The Giants obviously felt the WR was light with good reason. No nothing about him but welcome young man.
Giants see talent here. Like always lets see how it plays out.-
Jones has to show something big in 2021, otherwise NYG has two #1's a year from now to consider a replacement. Better sooner than later.
100%. I said basically the same above. This year the jones question must be answered. Now they have enough weapons for him and he's been around long enough where they will know, and he's not in a new system again
Jones has to show something big in 2021, otherwise NYG has two #1's a year from now to consider a replacement. Better sooner than later.
To me that’s purely what this pick was about. They’re going to surround Jones with as many potential playmakers as possible in hopes they can avoid another disappointing year from DJ and having to search for another franchise QB.
BACKGROUND: Kadarius Toney grew up in Eight Mile, Ala., which is located eight miles northwest of Mobile, and started playing youth football at 6-years old as a
quarterback at Trinity Gardens Park. He was a multi-sport athlete at Mattie T. Blount High School and led the team to a 20-5 record as the starting quarterback his
final two seasons. As a junior, Toney passed for 3,604 yards, rushed for 896 yards and totaled 53 touchdowns (37 passing, 16 rushing), earning Second Team Class 6A
all-state honors. He was named the 2016 Class 6A Back of the Year as a senior with 2,894 yards passing, 894 yards rushing and 47 total touchdowns (32 passing, 15
rushing). Toney finished his prep career with 120 total touchdowns. He also ran track in high school, setting personal bests in the 100 meters (11.50), javelin (148’)
and long jump (21’5).
A three-star recruit out of high school, Toney was the No. 25 athlete in the 2017 class and the No. 20 player in the state of Alabama. After his junior season, South
Alabama was his first offer, which set off an avalanche of offers including SEC programs like Florida, Ole Miss and South Carolina. With the opportunity to play
quarterback, Toney committed to the Gators prior to his senior year, holding firm to his choice despite a late push from Alabama. He saw snaps at quarterback when
he arrived in Gainesville, but was listed as an “athlete” on the roster all four seasons and transitioned full-time to wide receiver. Toney opted out of the bowl game
and accepted his invitation to the 2021 Senior Bowl, earning the top wide receiver award on the American team
STRENGTHS: His start/stop athleticism and rubber joints leave talented athletes awkward in pursuit…tremendous ankle flexion to explode out of his cuts…slips out of
tackle attempts due to his muscle twitch and body balance…owns the above average acceleration that defenders must account for with their angles…uses sudden
feet to manipulate coverage mid-route, creating separation…catches the ball well in stride…runs tougher than expected for his size, lowering his pads and using his
momentum to keep his feet through arm tackles…lined up everywhere on offense and has a “great football IQ,” according to former offensive coordinator Brian
Johnson…became the featured punt returner in 2020, averaging 12.6 yards per return and scoring once (11/139/1)…also returned kicks (21/324/0)…has the strongest
arm on the team, according to the Florida coaches, finishing 3-for-6 passing for 82 yards and one touchdown throw.
WEAKNESSES: Average frame with lean muscle build…electric foot quickness, but inconsistent steps vs. press and in/out of his breaks, often tipping defenders to his
route path…needs to improve his route tempo and better read coverage alignment to know where to sit down…not a proven pass-catcher on contested targets…most
of his drops were a result of running before securing the catch…underwhelming production over his first three seasons, partially because it took time to develop trust
with the coaches…some NFL scouts have voiced concern that he is more passionate about rapping than football (his stage name is Yung Joka)…off-field decisionmaking requires vetting due to multiple off-field incidents: suspended for the 2018 season opener after his involvement in an on-campus confrontation between
players and Gainesville locals where he painted an air-soft gun to look like an AR-15 assault rifle (May 2018); Pulled over by Gainesville Police, which revealed an
authentic and loaded AR-15 rifle in his back seat (July 2018) that Toney had “for protection because of the locals” (no charges filed)…missed chunks of playing time
due to injuries, sitting out multiple games as a freshman due to shoulder and shin issues (October 2017); missed half of his junior season with a left shoulder injury
(September 2019).
SUMMARY: A one-year starter at Florida, Toney lined up across the formation in head coach Dan Mullen’s offense, seeing snaps in the backfield, slot and outside. A
former high school quarterback, he was listed as an “athlete” on the Gators’ roster and battled injuries and transition issues his first three seasons before leading
Florida in receptions and receiving yards as a senior. A loose, elastic athlete, Toney routinely makes the first man miss with special start/stop twitch, frustrating
would-be tacklers and creating explosive plays. Though he is an improved route-runner, he remains a work in progress with his steps and tempo, and his freelancing
will backfire at times. Overall, Toney is still more of a gadget player than polished receiver (and his off-field and durability will be debated in war rooms), but he
boasts the one-step burst, body balance and underrated toughness to be a big-play ignitor. He projects as a versatile NFL weapon on offense and special teams.
GRADE: 1st-2nd Round (No. 28 overall)
Unreal upside in a scheme that knows how to maximize versatile linemen. Powerful hands and base with underrated athletic ability. Elite run defender and could pair with Buckner to supply top tier interior pass rush.
Giants WRs were LAST in the nfl in yac as a group. They were the worst of the worst, and it wasn’t more apparent until Barkley went down. Teams want to blitz the shit out of Jones, a guy like this absolutely helps. Extremely happy, preferred Waddle over Smith, wanted Moore(bc I thought he was cleaner w/ character concerns on Toney and Giants might not consider Toney). His primary character concern is he likes to rap, which is really kinda ridiculous. Great pick.
This kid had some issues with guns back in 2018 and some scouts questioned his passion for football as he is a rappeer.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
If any coach can get this kid on track and keep him there - Judge can
He only had issues with catching at the Senior Bowl when he played with 4 QB's he never played with before. I know that all the other WR's did the same but it was not an issue during real gameday with him
But they wanted a more consistent short/intermediate guy. That’s why I think they made this pick. Toney has monster short/intermediate potential if he puts it all together and maintains the athleticism
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
Shep played outside with the Tate signing. His role doesn't change from last two years.
completely because I don't have a board or know any of the players.
but if the Bears are awful and like league worst awful and the Giants are too (and they play each other by the way), and the Giants have #1 and #2 in the 2022 draft how long has it been since that's happened? Colts? 1992? or did someone else do it since?
Not really — we just weren't thinking about who might be the pick at 20. He would definitely have been on the radar if we'd been thinking that way. He's been ranked late-first pretty much all along.
And as I keep saying: Every team's board is going to be different. if he fits what the Giants need/want, that works for me.
sinorice moss was straight line fast and that’s ALL he had going for him. Toney has crazy cutting and acceleration ability. I don’t know if this is a good pick or a massive reach, but I gaurantee he’s much better than Sinorice Moss
Figured Moore was the safer play. No character problems, he was THE guy there. At like 18 he was getting snaps with DK and Brown at Ole Miss. At 19 he was putting up numbers in the SEC. Didn't have the character problems. In a 1v1 situation choosing between the two he made a lot more sense. I've seen plenty of Toney too, so I get what they're bringing in with the player. The Giants are good at scouting WRs and the pick itself is lifted by a bunch of picks including one that will probably be higher than 20 next year, just not sure about the decision here with a high floor Edge in Paye and what I consider a better WR on the board.
Toney has released 3 rap albums under the name Yung Joka
This kid had some issues with guns back in 2018 and some scouts questioned his passion for football as he is a rappeer.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
immediately after the trade down. seems most boards have him anywhere from 25-40 range so it was a bit of a reach according to them. still, he is incredibly shifty and a td maker, which we desperately need. just got to believe the giants know what they are doing.
and come next year, we have 2 #1s, so, there's that!
seems like he doesn't want another Baker situation...it seemed like he said go ahead with it. Like he okayed the off the field stuff but the coaches probably really wanted him.
Figured Moore was the safer play. No character problems, he was THE guy there. At like 18 he was getting snaps with DK and Brown at Ole Miss. At 19 he was putting up numbers in the SEC. Didn't have the character problems. In a 1v1 situation choosing between the two he made a lot more sense. I've seen plenty of Toney too, so I get what they're bringing in with the player. The Giants are good at scouting WRs and the pick itself is lifted by a bunch of picks including one that will probably be higher than 20 next year, just not sure about the decision here with a high floor Edge in Paye and what I consider a better WR on the board.
Moore is 5'9 - I dont get why people keep bringing him up. Toney will be a good NFL wr.
Jones has to show something big in 2021, otherwise NYG has two #1's a year from now to consider a replacement. Better sooner than later.
100%. I said basically the same above. This year the jones question must be answered. Now they have enough weapons for him and he's been around long enough where they will know, and he's not in a new system again
I fear that you might hear that next year that his OL wasn't good enough so you'll hear "Can't blame him for that. . . "
"For physics-defying agility, rewind to the 2019 game against Florida State. That’s when Toney took a jet sweep and shook the entire Seminoles defense with an Allen Iverson-style crossover, which led to a 47-yard gain.
Such an unbelievable exhibit against a hated rival couldn’t be matched, but Toney sure gave it a try with a couple of elusive plays in 2020. He punctuated a 57-yard touchdown catch against South Carolina by blasting through a crowd of five defenders. Then against Mizzou, he dodged four tackles on a quick screen touchdown that required replay to properly behold."
so people can't say it wasn't known like in the case of deandre baker Link - ( New Window )
Was the gun illegally owned or operated? If not exercising your constitutional rights is now a red flag?
yeah he didn't break any laws and I don't want to get into a guns debate, but you have to admit him owning AR-15 is going to be an issue for some the Tri-State area.
so pumped. I know Judge is going to get creative and use Toney all over the field to create mis-matches. I think this is going to be an awesome pick for us
They weren’t in love with the 2021 impact of anyone on the board, insofar as “day 1 starter”, and generally like their roster and makeup right now.
What apparently meant more to them - (at least) 5 picks in the top 100 of the 2022 draft. They did more in FA than we thought they could financially. That came with a price, and DG basically acknowledged that next year would be the pressure point as a result. Why not 2 top 100s in a year like that.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
I like the evaluations Chris Simms makes in his pre-draft you tube shows. Loved him said he was 4th or 5th best in entire draft and said PFF called him a generational talent with the ball in his hands.
Is more Saquon Barkley than anyone in the draft since. He’s special at cutting and exploding. But his speed isn’t even great and he doesn’t play as strong as you’d like.
Still think he could a be guy who Jones relies on for a lot of short throws. Weird pick like I said before but really interesting.
He ran a 4.37 at the combine. I don’t speed is an issue
I don’t think he plays to the 4.37 speed. Like most of this COVID Pro Dau times, I’d deduct .1 from that time.
What he does have is insanely quick twitch and short area explosiveness. Rare for even an NFL athlete. If he can turn that into a key strength, he could be a stud.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
He's never been convicted of anything. And he's from the hood so owning a gun is very very good idea.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
Plaxico was much bigger than Toney and outmuscled defensive backs; Toney’s more the speedy slot guy.
Seriously though, when looking at the clips of all the top WR's in this year class, his stood out. The term Human Joystick applies to him, though doesn't seem like he plays up to the 4.37 time.
Moore is 5'8, Toney is at least 5'11 or 6'. Well, I guess Jones doesn't have an excuse this year...
*There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling. He is as tough as they come, and I love his stop-go quickness. He will make plays with the ball in his hands. But there is a cap to his speed, he doesn’t play very big, and there are a lot of shortcomings I see when it comes to routes/ball skills/awareness etc. Really intrigued to see where he goes.
Hope he's a good player, obviously. All the air was sucked out of the room for me after the Eagles fucked us out of Smith and fucked us for the millionth time in the past decade. I know, sack up, blah, blah, blah. Better win some games this year.
He doesn't have elite speed. But he plays physical and breaks tackles. I bet he'll be a great blocker. Think Jarvis Landry in terms of what he offers but Beckham in terms of style.
Toney is a versatile, explosive playmaker. He lines up in the slot and does a lot of damage on fly sweeps and seam routes. His combination of play strength, burst and wiggle makes him difficult to get on the ground once the ball is in his hands. He doesn't run a wide variety of routes, but he has the skill set to develop in that area. He's dangerous in the return game because of his athleticism and lack of fear. Overall, Toney isn't quite as big as Deebo Samuel, but I envision him playing the same role at the next level.
The speedy pass catcher is a roadrunner on the perimeter with exceptional stop-start quickness and burst. Toney is one of the few playmakers in the draft with the capacity to score from anywhere on the field on deep balls or catch-and-run plays.
so pumped. I know Judge is going to get creative and use Toney all over the field to create mis-matches. I think this is going to be an awesome pick for us
Totally agree. Add Saquon back and there are going to be some matchup nightmares. Very excited!
Figured Moore was the safer play. No character problems, he was THE guy there. At like 18 he was getting snaps with DK and Brown at Ole Miss. At 19 he was putting up numbers in the SEC. Didn't have the character problems. In a 1v1 situation choosing between the two he made a lot more sense. I've seen plenty of Toney too, so I get what they're bringing in with the player. The Giants are good at scouting WRs and the pick itself is lifted by a bunch of picks including one that will probably be higher than 20 next year, just not sure about the decision here with a high floor Edge in Paye and what I consider a better WR on the board.
Moore is 5'9 - I dont get why people keep bringing him up. Toney will be a good NFL wr.
That's probably why they went that way, I guess you can project Toney to Z better than Moore but I think with Slayton in the fold you can grab that pure slot stud in Moore.
He doesn't have elite speed. But he plays physical and breaks tackles. I bet he'll be a great blocker. Think Jarvis Landry in terms of what he offers but Beckham in terms of style.
Didnt he run a 4.37
Id say his speed and quickness are best part of game
Definitely don't like reaching for a receiver in what is considered
He doesn't have elite speed. But he plays physical and breaks tackles. I bet he'll be a great blocker. Think Jarvis Landry in terms of what he offers but Beckham in terms of style.
Didnt he run a 4.37
Id say his speed and quickness are best part of game
Watch his games. He gets caught from behind sometimes. His short area burst is elite. His long speed not so much.
Just strikes me as a weird fit. I'm optimistic that we're updating the offense and don't think we'll have Garrett at OC long but just seems like a weird fit.
RE: Toney plus an extra first and some other picks
*There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling. He is as tough as they come, and I love his stop-go quickness. He will make plays with the ball in his hands. But there is a cap to his speed, he doesn’t play very big, and there are a lot of shortcomings I see when it comes to routes/ball skills/awareness etc. Really intrigued to see where he goes.
Not the most ringing endorsement...
Sy was very down on him. I believe I questioned it on that WR thread.
Toney isn’t a “typical” WR. He has a really weird and unique skillset. He could either be a freakish Welker/Landry hybrid or a complete nothing. It’s a risky draft pick for sure.
The fact they took him over Paye makes me think the truly love him as a prospect.
He doesn't have elite speed. But he plays physical and breaks tackles. I bet he'll be a great blocker. Think Jarvis Landry in terms of what he offers but Beckham in terms of style.
Didnt he run a 4.37
Id say his speed and quickness are best part of game
Been watching highlights. Dude’s change of direction ability is uncanny. In an nfl that eschews form tackling for armless hits, he’s going to rack up YAC.
You could even play him at RB. Shifty guy with excellent YAC resume
Florida used him on a lot on jet sweeps and creative plays running the ball from motion...
I like the pick Googs given the trade down
Yeah, not against grabbing a weapon even with the drop down. Feels like he could have gone Rd 2 but he’s some game.
I watch only SEC games and he made a crap load of big plays.
Not popular pick here. Hopefully he outperforms Bateman and Moore otherwise won’t look good for front office yet again...
Being in the Midwest my son was a huge Bateman fan. The problem is I saw Bateman disappear at times. I like the fact we have Shepard's replacement and while Shep did a decent job for us he was never the YAC threat we needed at slot.
“The thing I love about him is he is a competitor,” he said. “The NFL is a business, but usually the guys who love football and have that competitive juice running through their veins are the guys that make it. He loves football and loves to compete.
Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
In comment 15243457 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Guys who buy draft magazines crying ‘bust’ when their top 100 lists show draft steals still on the board (while guys picked ahead of their magazine ranking are dumb picks).
And it only gets better on Saturday morning when ten guys list the top guys not crossed out as ‘steals.’
has video game moves and vision. That isn't the issue. He makes really good athletes look silly at times. He also ran a 4.39 at his pro day IIRC. The problem is everything else. His legal scrapes and significant outside interest (rapping). Drafting him at all, let alone so soon after Baker, is stunning. Paye would have provide inside pass rush and is a great run defender. Getting him at #20 would have been a steal.
RE: RE: Toney ranked 5th in Bob McGinn's WR rankings
This kid had some issues with guns back in 2018 and some scouts questioned his passion for football as he is a rappeer.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
has video game moves and vision. That isn't the issue. He makes really good athletes look silly at times. He also ran a 4.39 at his pro day IIRC. The problem is everything else. His legal scrapes and significant outside interest (rapping). Drafting him at all, let alone so soon after Baker, is stunning. Paye would have provide inside pass rush and is a great run defender. Getting him at #20 would have been a steal.
The Giants disagree. Doesn’t that count for a lot?
If you’re still concerned about how long you ol can hold a rush.
Also, guys who can create and run close to the line (Barkley, Jones, Toney) will keep the defense aware and probably do wonders for guys like Slaytonand Golliday going deeper.
Agree on the Shepard point. Always said he never ran with his feet underneath him...slips and stumbles. Toney is the exact opposite actually.
Surprising to imagine Smith, Fields and Parsons go right where we were and we wound up with Toney though. But next years first rounder too I guess...
Yeah, I also wanted the big name but I really like the strategic move of loading up for next season with picks in case DJ is not the guy. This puts the pressure we want on DJ to either step up or step aside.
In comment 15243457 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Pipe down chucklehead...
RE: Toney was not worth a first rd pick. Sy even said
Landry is a below average athlete for the spot. The difference between Toney and Landry is as wide as it gets.
Just one drill. Vertical. Toney jumped 1ft+ higher. 28 to 41.
That difference is ENORMOUS and shows the clear difference in the type of athlete you're dealing with.
Maybe Landry isn’t the best comp. but I always thought he had insane quickness even if his speed isn’t great. Could be wrong on that.
I feel like that’s Toney. I don’t buy the Pro Day 40z I do buy the quickness which is insane to anyone who has eyes. Does he have the other skills necessary to take advantage of it? We’ll see.
He is explosive and makes people miss. Categorizing him as a "slot guy" kind of minimizing.
He isn't a straight line speed guy, but that's what Slayton is for.Giants didn't have a player like this. Shepard is solid, but Toney is a sports car version of shepard.
more quick than fast. We’ll be fine. We got three picks in addition to him one being a first rounder next year. Giants missed out on Smith and did the next best thing. I’d be pissed if they sat at 11 and drafted a mediocre player.
Agree on the Shepard point. Always said he never ran with his feet underneath him...slips and stumbles. Toney is the exact opposite actually.
Surprising to imagine Smith, Fields and Parsons go right where we were and we wound up with Toney though. But next years first rounder too I guess...
Yeah, I also wanted the big name but I really like the strategic move of loading up for next season with picks in case DJ is not the guy. This puts the pressure we want on DJ to either step up or step aside.
Yep.
What do you think rd 2? OL or maybe if some edge guy falls?
He is explosive and makes people miss. Categorizing him as a "slot guy" kind of minimizing.
He isn't a straight line speed guy, but that's what Slayton is for.Giants didn't have a player like this. Shepard is solid, but Toney is a sports car version of shepard.
As a guy who is calling him a “slot guy”, I mean no disrespect by that. That’s the way the game is played now. You need guys who control the middle of the field with consistent yardage.
RE: Yeah it’s totally normal to have an AR-15 in your car
In comment 15243457 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Not sure I'm thrilled. What do we do now with Shep?
Shepard hasn't been playing slot for three years. We replaced Tate with this pick.
Only due to necessity. So what this really means is we still have a good slot guy, and are still depending on Slayton outside (with Golliday of course too). I hope he's good, but I'm not jumping up and down about his pick.
This kid had some issues with guns back in 2018 and some scouts questioned his passion for football as he is a rappeer.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
Guns? Are you fucking serious? Oh good Lord.
Air soft gun. A pellet gun.
No, he also had a real one but apparently he had a permit for it.
Is that the org isn’t doing anything without Judge’s support right now, I don’t think they need all of their guys to be squeaky clean, but I think they must have confidence in the buy-in, and the coach ability, and must have love the “dog” that KD plays with.
If I had to guess - what JJ really wanted was the additional capital this year and esp next year.
he also wanted Josh Rosen. Shit happens. I will judge Toney by his play not by guys who wanted nothing to do with Paye at 11 but at 20 act like we just passed on LT.
Personally, I think versatility isn’t more important than having a command of a position. I get itchy when I hear “find ways to get the ball in his hands.” Feels a little like Engram.
I’d rather the story be the guy really established himself, and has a day one position *and* as a bonus can do some gadget stuff.
In comment 15243457 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
I appreciate Sy's work here, but why do we have to reconcile it?
What makes Sy's ratings any different than the many other people who do what he does on the internet? He gives us a ton of content but his rankings aren't worth anything more to me than other true draftniks.
Not a shot at him, but just because he posts a lot of stuff on BBI doesn't mean we should hold his rankings in much higher regard than others.
Once Smith was off the board, the Bears trade was by far the best option for the Giants.
I think the Bears are going to be top 10 bad next year too. Regardless that pick will be very valuable.
Sure Landry has some quicks. But Toney is on another level. Its not close. Plus Toney can pull away from coverage too.
I really can't see the comparison.
My vertical right now is closer to Landry than Landry is to Toney. Hahahaha right? but true.
I was surprised by that vertical. Now I don’t even how Landry caught 100 passes multiple times lol. I still feel like he’s quick and explosive but you got me there.
Trust me, I like Toney more than most but he’s a weird prospect. I don’t love the Samuel comp you give him because I know you wanted Samuel in FA and are maybe trying to force that comp. Toney isn’t nearly as fast as that 40 time imo. The quickness is 10/10 but the speed isn’t that level.
If he combines route running/timing with his quickness, sky’s the limit in terms of catches .
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I get it. I'd love to know what Sy specifically knows about Toney vs Parsons. Because my guess is he knows quite a bit - like he knew about Baker - and still didn't knock Parsons because of it...
comments - they read inconsistent hands on the TV screen(based on some drops at Senior Bowl) but he only dropped 3 passes all year reg season.
BTW, we had a guy named Victor Cruz who really did drop passes and he was beloved here. This guy appears to have VCs quickness and moves and about the same size (but has better hands).
I did not like the pick, but re-read Sy's report. Take out the red flag stuff(which we now know is because he had two gun incidents for possession, not use). Actually Sy writes him up pretty well, says a lot of good things about him and I really think SY dinged him hard on the gun issues, which he would have to do. But this is a quote from Sy "Toney has joystick quickness and change of direction whether he is running routes or carrying the ball. He is the kind of guy that can miss contact in the phone booth and will always fight for more yards. Toney plays bigger and tougher than his frame suggests. It will be hard to find a more competitive spark plug than him."
IMHO, pretty good praise.
how much did the score drop due to the off field stuff? If its 3 or 4 points than there you are, late 1st rounder seems legit. I trust the Giants to know about it and decide whether its worth the risk. Have to feel like they wouldn't do this after Baker unless they were convinced the issues were in the past.
I take my Samuel comments back. Looking at his YPC in college + the pros makes me realize I was wrong in the type of player he was. I think you could be right on that.
RE: Toney was not worth a first rd pick. Sy even said
thing isn't derogative at all. That's a starter in today's NFL and an explosive element there changes things for an offense, you're making the middle of the field defenders make a decision with certain route combos. A stud slot with speed is worth a later 1. My problem with Toney is the presence of another "slot guy" in Moore, some other higher priority positions being available and his character stuff. The offensive system thing is a question for me too, we might just give him the failed Engram short touches.
I'm on board with the whole trade and pick though. It's close toan A for me, you get that high potential future 1 so the pick is close to gravy with our blue chip targets off the board.
Toney was recruited out of high school by....Jeremy Pruitt
I appreciate Sy's work here, but why do we have to reconcile it?
What makes Sy's ratings any different than the many other people who do what he does on the internet? He gives us a ton of content but his rankings aren't worth anything more to me than other true draftniks.
Not a shot at him, but just because he posts a lot of stuff on BBI doesn't mean we should hold his rankings in much higher regard than others.
Once Smith was off the board, the Bears trade was by far the best option for the Giants.
I think the Bears are going to be top 10 bad next year too. Regardless that pick will be very valuable.
Mook - I liked the trade. Absolutely no issue with that.
But Toney was probably going to be available in round two.
is a good comp for Toney, at least in terms of start stop ability, vision, and the ability to successfully maneuver in traffic. Players like that are frustrating because they always seem to squirm away for at least a few extra yards. They make defenders right next to them completely whiff. You need an incredible ability to go immediately from full speed to a total stop to be able to that. Both players can. I do watch a lot of college football, and I've rarely seen a player who does better in traffic than Toney. He's the definition of elusive and slippery, as well as surprisingly strong and tough. Let's hope his character concerns and commitment won't be a problem, but as I said, it's surprising they did this, especially so soon after Baker.
RE: Just saying the AR-15 packing is not a good thing
They also drafted Breshad Perriman in the first round. He lasted two...2 seasons with them. He was drafted in 2015 and is on his 6th team. They overall do a good job drafting but haven't been stellar at drafting WRs.
Where are the interviews with Gettleman, Judge and Pettit
Most of the dossier on Toney...
bw in dc : 3/17/2021 10:48 am : link
has been discussed above. But he's unquestionably a first round talent. And I like his body type much better than Smith's at the next level. So from a talent perspective a case can be made for him at #11.
However, his character is a knock. And you just can't make high investments with those question marks.
He’s a versatile player and is dynamic. Nothing wrong with that, but I’m wondering if he could have dropped to Giants in the 2nd? Link - ( New Window )
Most of the dossier on Toney...
bw in dc : 3/17/2021 10:48 am : link
has been discussed above. But he's unquestionably a first round talent. And I like his body type much better than Smith's at the next level. So from a talent perspective a case can be made for him at #11.
However, his character is a knock. And you just can't make high investments with those question marks.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
RE: RE: I agree with Sy on this pick, some teams had Toney off there Board
like a forced reach. Every draft analyst I read, had him as a 2nd to 3rd round talent.
Not sure what sites you read or when you read them, but the sites I was looking at had him pretty consistently rated late first round. Originally Bateman was ranked ahead of him, but he seems to have fallen a lot. I think some sites would say he was "overdrafted" but not wildly so. On the other hand, as noted above, some analysts absolutely LOVE him.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
RE: I agree with Sy on this pick, some teams had Toney off there Board
and take his life seriously or be a clown. If it’s the former I’m guessing we will be happy.
Didn't these incidents happen his freshman year - 3 or 4 years ago? I read it and cannot remember. If he kept his nose clean for 3 or 4 years, he may have figured it out.
Somebody just remind him that a Florida or Alabama gun permit is not valid north of Virginia.....
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
No, but thats not what he does. He deliberately stirs shit irrelevant to the current discussion. Apparently Im not the only one who feels that way.
and it's got me thinking, Toney reminds me ALOT of Diggs coming out.
ELITE lateral agility for both guys. Similar frame. Toney may have a bit more speed. Obviously needs to develop as a route runner- Diggs is elite in that area.
RE: bw is basically admitting he doesn't think Judge did his homework on
The Giants receivers, including Engram, ranked dead last in the nfl in yac. I think Jones was blitzed at a higher rate than any other quarterback(he might have been second). This guy helps on multiple fronts.
Ojulari at 20 and some even at 11. He might not get drafted in the first.
Puts into perspective how much these mocks are crapshoots after the first 10 players or so and why getting mad at the pick is really really narrow minded.
and it's got me thinking, Toney reminds me ALOT of Diggs coming out.
ELITE lateral agility for both guys. Similar frame. Toney may have a bit more speed. Obviously needs to develop as a route runner- Diggs is elite in that area.
I think Toney is more physical of a player though. And he'll be a slot not outside.
RE: What do you think will happen to him if he is stopped
But this kid was recruited out of HS by one of our coaches, Jeremy Pruitt, so we’ve got deep insight. Saban tried to get him, so there’s the Alabama scouting angle as well. Judge said they dug back all the way through his high school years and that he is “very particular,” about the players in the building.
Ar-15 in Florida? Meh. Hope he’s a firecracker for us.
This is a concern with all these country boys. I'm not saying it doesn't matter and all you can do is make sure they're clear on the local laws. I assure you he isn't the only player in this draft who owns a gun.
“For a shorter receiver, Toney's hand measurement should be comforting. He never struggled with drops at Florida - posting three in four seasons - and mitts that size shouldn't struggle with a larger ball in the pros.” Gators seni9r bowl players - ( New Window )
RE: RE: RE: I agree with Sy on this pick, some teams had Toney off there Board
We got a playmaker in Toney. I’m not going to pretend I know the player, but I have faith in Judge, the coaches, the scouts and DG. They know more about the player than any of us do. I love the 1st and 4th next yr as well. Last yr, this yr and next yrs draft could be the center pieces for the next 10yrs of NYG football. Chicago’s pick could be a top 10 pick next yr. We have the pieces in place.
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
It was just an idea at the time.....but I stand by everything I said. Tremendous addition and a special football player.
Why is Nobody Talking about Kadarius Toney at 11? - ( New Window )
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
Eric just quoted Sy above. Aside from the red flags he mentions, he is quite complementary of Toney. Reading the right up, he seems he should have a higher grade, but got hit hard because of the gun issues.
I also do not think he will be the last WR they take.
It was just an idea at the time.....but I stand by everything I said. Tremendous addition and a special football player.
Why is Nobody Talking about Kadarius Toney at 11? - ( New Window )
Take a bow you magnificent bastard!
Congrats mittenedman, I remembered the post but not who said it.
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
"Needs the right offensive mind" is key. Is Garrett going to get this guy in positions to catch the ball at speed and maximize YAC? Doesn't seem like his forte. Toney feels like a perfect fit for KC, SF, or the Rams.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
My biggest concern in terms of immediate impact. Great in theory but I'm worried about the same kind of stale forced touches we saw with Engram last year going to Toney.
This post is in 'Why is Tyree in there?' territory
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
"Needs the right offensive mind" is key. Is Garrett going to get this guy in positions to catch the ball at speed and maximize YAC? Doesn't seem like his forte. Toney feels like a perfect fit for KC, SF, or the Rams.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
Garrett seems to love that jet sweep WR handoff. Might be what he saw in his mind when they picked him.
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
"Needs the right offensive mind" is key. Is Garrett going to get this guy in positions to catch the ball at speed and maximize YAC? Doesn't seem like his forte. Toney feels like a perfect fit for KC, SF, or the Rams.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
I know you’re just being you here, but the trade does help us in case Jones doesn’t “prove it”. Optimistically (or realistically) though, my choice would be to parlay those picks into a top tier edge (gotta believe next years class will be better than this years) and eschew one this draft.
so he has bad character. He's a rapper so he's a thug. The Giants war room was in obvious "disarray." Judge didn't "look happy." Toney had some drops at the Senior Bowl so has bricks for hands (he was also voted no. 1 wr at Senior Bowl fwiw.) None of the draft gurus liked him (except those who rated him highly. You could tell that Mara's afraid he's another DeAndre Baker. He's another Sincorice Moss. He's another Percy Harvin. He's a bad fit for Judge's culture. You know, some of you guys must have super powers the way you can instantaneously make these judgments and then state them with such conviction. I was surprised by the pick and disappointed because I wanted Kwity Paye on the Giants. But the Giants have the no. 9 Defense and the no. 30 Offense so I get the "strategery." I have no clue where Toney should be ranked in this deep group of WRs or, from what I've quickly read tonight, whether he even should be considered a WR or some kind of hybrid playmaker. But my sense is that most of you also don't have much of a clue. I'm betting that Joe Judge and his staff are a little more informed than the super fans.
11 personnel creates matchup problems if you are looking at Golladay, Toney, one of Shepard/Ross/Slayton, Barkley, and Engram all on the field at the same time.
Just need the line to hold up.
I have to say, I watched 3 Florida games this year
And in 2 of them, he had fairly average numbers. But in all 3, I was in awe at how he played the game. Just quick, decisive, broke tackles.
Early on, I thought his size would drop him to the 2nd and was told that there would be no way he would make it there. I think this is a very interesting pick given what we currently have at the skill spots. Barkley out of the backfield, Slayton and Golladay on the outside, Engram (meh) and Rudolph up the seam and Toney all over the place.
Wonder if we'll see both he and Barkley start in the backfield.
My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
so he has bad character. He's a rapper so he's a thug. The Giants war room was in obvious "disarray." Judge didn't "look happy." Toney had some drops at the Senior Bowl so has bricks for hands (he was also voted no. 1 wr at Senior Bowl fwiw.) None of the draft gurus liked him (except those who rated him highly. You could tell that Mara's afraid he's another DeAndre Baker. He's another Sincorice Moss. He's another Percy Harvin. He's a bad fit for Judge's culture. You know, some of you guys must have super powers the way you can instantaneously make these judgments and then state them with such conviction. I was surprised by the pick and disappointed because I wanted Kwity Paye on the Giants. But the Giants have the no. 9 Defense and the no. 30 Offense so I get the "strategery." I have no clue where Toney should be ranked in this deep group of WRs or, from what I've quickly read tonight, whether he even should be considered a WR or some kind of hybrid playmaker. But my sense is that most of you also don't have much of a clue. I'm betting that Joe Judge and his staff are a little more informed than the super fans.
OK... this made me chuckle.
surprised they picked a player with flags but he adds speed
and that imo was the top priority heading into this draft. This team needs to get faster across the field at every position they can. The explosiveness with the ball in his hands is obvious, though he is lacking the polish and pedigree of both Bama WRs. I suppose they do have the depth in the WR room to bring him along if necessary. Perhaps a bit of a boom/bust pick but I think I prefer that to someone like Paye who has yet to fully translate his tools into explosiveness on the field. With the ball in his hands he runs like Kamara. Overall he reminds me of Harvin but maybe it's the UF thing.
Adding Chicago's first round pick next year is an absolute grand slam. The 4th round pick is nice too, that could end up right around pick #100.
So I would have definitely done the Chicago trade.
I don't know if I'd have selected Toney.
But I understand the logic. Just watch the highlights against Bama in the SEC Championship game. Kadarius Toney vs. Alabama 12/19/2020 - ( New Window )
so he has bad character. He's a rapper so he's a thug. The Giants war room was in obvious "disarray." Judge didn't "look happy." Toney had some drops at the Senior Bowl so has bricks for hands (he was also voted no. 1 wr at Senior Bowl fwiw.) None of the draft gurus liked him (except those who rated him highly. You could tell that Mara's afraid he's another DeAndre Baker. He's another Sincorice Moss. He's another Percy Harvin. He's a bad fit for Judge's culture. You know, some of you guys must have super powers the way you can instantaneously make these judgments and then state them with such conviction. I was surprised by the pick and disappointed because I wanted Kwity Paye on the Giants. But the Giants have the no. 9 Defense and the no. 30 Offense so I get the "strategery." I have no clue where Toney should be ranked in this deep group of WRs or, from what I've quickly read tonight, whether he even should be considered a WR or some kind of hybrid playmaker. But my sense is that most of you also don't have much of a clue. I'm betting that Joe Judge and his staff are a little more informed than the super fans.
My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
Could be all-time great in terms of hard cutting ability to all angles. This all depends on if our coaches can scheme the talent properly and the talent stays healthy and shows up.
My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
He gets caught from behind too often. He isn’t a pure speed guy. He’s a guy with alien quickness. Super unique player.
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
My biggest concern in terms of immediate impact. Great in theory but I'm worried about the same kind of stale forced touches we saw with Engram last year going to Toney.
My fear too. I’d much rather read a WR has command of the route tree, has a natural feel for the position, and has perfected the craft.
My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Osi, thats a great combo....I actually thought he reminded me of Welker at first. But combining Welker's quickness with Landry's toughness and some vert to go with it? Thats a helluva a player!
Like you, I also dont take these pro day 40s seriously, but I dont shave a full .1. I think .05-.07 is generally the margin for error for me. So 4.44 for a guy with quicks like his and jumps 40 is an awfully scary threat.
My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Osi, thats a great combo....I actually thought he reminded me of Welker at first. But combining Welker's quickness with Landry's toughness and some vert to go with it? Thats a helluva a player!
Like you, I also dont take these pro day 40s seriously, but I dont shave a full .1. I think .05-.07 is generally the margin for error for me. So 4.44 for a guy with quicks like his and jumps 40 is an awfully scary threat.
I remember now. Ahmad Bradshaw was the guy who he reminded me of in terms of cutting, as a WR. Is he worth the 20th pick? Not sure, felt like a slight reach overall but who am I to say. But he is absolutely a one of a kind prospect in this draft. Not a single other player moves like him. Didn’t think Gettleman would go for that in a trade down.
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
My biggest concern in terms of immediate impact. Great in theory but I'm worried about the same kind of stale forced touches we saw with Engram last year going to Toney.
My fear too. I’d much rather read a WR has command of the route tree, has a natural feel for the position, and has perfected the craft.
If you're going to take a WR that needs technique work, I would rather one like this where, in the mean time, he can be like Cole Beasley or Welker and you say, "be open over here" and he wiggles into space with incredible cuts.
This guy and Shep are going to be 1st down machines.
My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Osi, thats a great combo....I actually thought he reminded me of Welker at first. But combining Welker's quickness with Landry's toughness and some vert to go with it? Thats a helluva a player!
Like you, I also dont take these pro day 40s seriously, but I dont shave a full .1. I think .05-.07 is generally the margin for error for me. So 4.44 for a guy with quicks like his and jumps 40 is an awfully scary threat.
I remember now. Ahmad Bradshaw was the guy who he reminded me of in terms of cutting, as a WR. Is he worth the 20th pick? Not sure, felt like a slight reach overall but who am I to say. But he is absolutely a one of a kind prospect in this draft. Not a single other player moves like him. Didn’t think Gettleman would go for that in a trade down.
Your take is spot on as far as Im concerned. He is like 10 lbs lighter than Tiki played at. That is a sturdy WR.
Boylehart liked him best among the WR's he reviewed. While I have more confidence in Sy, I hope he's wrong about this one. Toney can undeniably do some amazing things with the ball in his hands!
Boylehart liked him best among the WR's he reviewed. While I have more confidence in Sy, I hope he's wrong about this one. Toney can undeniably do some amazing things with the ball in his hands! Toney Highlights - ( New Window )
This is not a knock on Toney, but Boylehart seems like a nut to me.
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
He gets caught from behind too often. He isn’t a pure speed guy. He’s a guy with alien quickness. Super unique player.
He is a threat to take it to the house each time he touches the ball from anywhere on the field, is what I think his description was. He may get caught, but it appears he very much mimics OBJ speed wise. IDK, if he is a faster quicker Sterling Shepard that is pretty good. Guess we will find out.
Joe Judge on Kadarius Toney and injury/offseason questions: "The skill and the person has to add up." Says the Giants vetted Toney all the way back to high school - he was recruited by Jeremy Pruitt, now a senior assistant with NYG.
Judge says he's "very particular" who fits here Art Stapleton Tweet/Judge on Toney - ( New Window )
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
He gets caught from behind too often. He isn’t a pure speed guy. He’s a guy with alien quickness. Super unique player.
He is a threat to take it to the house each time he touches the ball from anywhere on the field, is what I think his description was. He may get caught, but it appears he very much mimics OBJ speed wise. IDK, if he is a faster quicker Sterling Shepard that is pretty good. Guess we will find out.
If there was a race between all the guys in this draft, Toney might not go Top 25 or even lower imo.
If there was a game of dodgeball, he’d go #1 easy. He’s a weirdly quick/explosive athlete.
I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
I agree with this sentiment, though I'm not entirely sure where his route tree development is. He clearly had a break out year and got better as it went along. He performed well at the senior bowl. Devonta Smith was running pro routes in high school, he's not that and I think most would unanimously prefer that skill. That's why PHI traded up for him and why NYG traded back after he got picked.
Everyone always wants a trade down but when it happens inevitably the player you get is going to have a few more warts.
I know you wanted Paye, that’s what I was expecting too at the time of the pick. Hopefully this was the right call.
A first round pick next year is great regardless though.
I wanted everybody. Lol. But I preferred to get the playmaker out of the way. I wasnt wildly wild about Paye, I just felt he was the most feasible EDGE who cpuld learn what he doesnt know. Plus we had a decent pass rush that we manufacturee a pretty good pass rush last year.
I wanted a Guard too, but as was mentioned, there is plenty of those in 2nd and 3rd.
What I really wanted and feel like we got was a guy Ds cant match up with with another great player. I think we got that in Toney.
I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
This is why I thought they’d go Moore or Bateman. More natural typical WRs. They wanted a little spice though.
It kind of makes me more confident that Garrett will be forced to be more creative, especially since there are about a dozen offensive coaches now behind Kitchens.
character is a complex concept. We are talking behavior and being a
football player, not a saint. having a brain for “good” behavior so you don’t tuck a pistol into your swear pants and go into a bar in NYC, that kind of behavior.
God blessed this young man with an abundance of quick twitch muscles and the neural connections to see a football field correctly and play. he seems to play hard. Some one needs to convince him not to waste what God has blessed him with. Sounds easy? it’s not but this is where coaching and teammates come in. It’s no longer an LT league, so need to show/develop some self restraint.
We’ll see if he can be convinced, coerced, bribed, get faith to act responsibly so he can use his talent. Someone told Judge he was a risk worth taking.
I’m very curious and hopeful it works out for Toney and we relish him and the Giants in the near future.
^ I definitely don’t know enough about Toney’s development at the position. I was responding to a post furthering up about him learning on the job, and the team finding ways to get him the ball. I sure hope the way to get him the ball is the normal offense. I hate the thought of having to work around a player’s weaknesses to get to his strengths.
^ I definitely don’t know enough about Toney’s development at the position. I was responding to a post furthering up about him learning on the job, and the team finding ways to get him the ball. I sure hope the way to get him the ball is the normal offense. I hate the thought of having to work around a player’s weaknesses to get to his strengths.
He’s a unique player who, worst comes to worst, might need to be schemed to succeed. Your concern is the “the” concern imo. But his skillset also isn’t the typical skillset of an NFL WR, his lateral cutting is in a different league. If he can learn how to run NFL caliber routes while taking advantage of that skill, we’ll all be drooling over him. Huge if though.
^ I definitely don’t know enough about Toney’s development at the position. I was responding to a post furthering up about him learning on the job, and the team finding ways to get him the ball. I sure hope the way to get him the ball is the normal offense. I hate the thought of having to work around a player’s weaknesses to get to his strengths.
Agreed - just saying that he's not like Curtis Samuel who had more rush attempts than receptions in college (and a low ypc). Or Percy Harvin who also had more rushes than receptions. Toney got most of his touches as a receiver and his 14 ypc is perfectly acceptable. Against Bama he did damage all over the field.
The raw tools are there and he was highly productive this past year. He's just not nearly as polished as Devonta Smith. And not quite the vertical player Waddle is. But there are lots of different types of effective WRs.
Ironically from the convo about the 2018 draft earlier today, the most recent draft pick he reminds me of is DJ Moore who similarly plays like a RB with the ball in his hands. Moore was drafted #24 and was thought of as a bit of a late riser into the first round. They timed similarly and have similar stat profiles. I'd sign for that level outcome here and think it's a realistic possibility.
^ I definitely don’t know enough about Toney’s development at the position. I was responding to a post furthering up about him learning on the job, and the team finding ways to get him the ball. I sure hope the way to get him the ball is the normal offense. I hate the thought of having to work around a player’s weaknesses to get to his strengths.
Agreed - just saying that he's not like Curtis Samuel who had more rush attempts than receptions in college (and a low ypc). Or Percy Harvin who also had more rushes than receptions. Toney got most of his touches as a receiver and his 14 ypc is perfectly acceptable. Against Bama he did damage all over the field.
The raw tools are there and he was highly productive this past year. He's just not nearly as polished as Devonta Smith. And not quite the vertical player Waddle is. But there are lots of different types of effective WRs.
Ironically from the convo about the 2018 draft earlier today, the most recent draft pick he reminds me of is DJ Moore who similarly plays like a RB with the ball in his hands. Moore was drafted #24 and was thought of as a bit of a late riser into the first round. They timed similarly and have similar stat profiles. I'd sign for that level outcome here and think it's a realistic possibility.
his explosion, especially out of cuts, is terrific. Giants need dynamic players at WR. This guy has a chance to be that.
He should be able to step right in and play the slot.
Shep is likely gone after this season. Hopefully Slayton develops into a reliable outside weapon and he, Golladay and Toney are a great group.
It is incredibly important to have weapons this year for Jones. Hopefully the answer to the "is Jones a franchise quarterback" is answered with a yes after the 2021 season, but even if it's a no the most important thing is it's answered one way or the other. This guy should start from day 1 out of the slot and be able to make plays.
If Jones can't show he's a franchise QB this year with the weapons they now have, then they need to look for another QB next off-season
I'm talking about the 2020 NFL version of Samuel and what he brings to a football team. Toney brings the same skills.
Christian was talking about projecting a player from CFB to NFL whose role is uncertain. My point is that Toney isn't a guy who split time at 2 positions, he played WR and this past year he did it very well. They may not need to be "creative" with him for him to be effective (though surely it could be helpful to use any player creatively with motion and alignment). I agree with the comp to the player Curtis Samuel was this past year.
it looks like Dante Hall. DJ Moore is a bigger player and like you said doesn't have that kind of agility. He does run with the same kind of aggression finishing plays after the catch. And also seems to similarly excel on underneath routes that allow him to run after the catch as opposed to vertical routes.
it looks like Dante Hall. DJ Moore is a bigger player and like you said doesn't have that kind of agility. He does run with the same kind of aggression finishing plays after the catch. And also seems to similarly excel on underneath routes that allow him to run after the catch as opposed to vertical routes.
I just don’t think there’s a single active player you can compare him to. He’s so one of a kind. Dante Hall for that one year was special as a returner. That’s a legit comparison in terms of movement but Toney was doing it as a WR. His route running and catching skills need to improve no doubt. But he has other skills that could make those route running skills otherworldly.
I think it's important to consider the multiplier effect the Toney pic
I never thought Toney would be a consideration because of the character stuff. But if Judge feels comfortable, that's great. There really hasn't been any problems with him for off the field stuff the last couple of years at least.
So I was really rooting for Waddle, and Smith as a fall back.
Toney isn't as fast as Waddle, but faster than Smith. But he isn't as good a route runner as Smith. That said, he has traits, kind of a combo of both receivers. He has good hand size at 9.5" which is something I always look for in receivers.
He is a really explosive athlete. Skinner/Talking Giants has a good breakdown on him.
He creates a LOT of separation. He had a big game vs Alabama, so against the top competition. He's going to create separation in the NFL, and he does it with his speed. He also has really good releases. Lots of broken tackles, his catch percentage as noted, and he gets plenty of downfield balls and wins. Leaps about 40" as noted.
The Giants might not have lost anything in terms of the quality of receiver they got after missing out on Waddle and Smith. He's going to make big plays and is the exact kind of complement I was hoping for across from Golladay.
He knows how to set corners up to get open. This is a TD threat with the ball in his hands. I think when you consider that you're getting a dangerous weapon still at 20, and you got an extra 5th this year, and a 1st and 4th next year, especially given that 1st can be a really high first, I really like it.
There's still a lot of good players on the board for 42, also. Surprising pick but it wouldn't surprise me to see him have huge success in the NFL. He has some OBJ to his game.
This is the kind of player that will command respect for his speed. He will help prevent those loaded boxes.
I think this is a player that's going to really help the Giants offense. And I think Toney can play outside, I really do. I know he was primarily a slot at UF, and surely he'll get reps there with the Giants. You don't have to use a lot of imagination to see what he can bring to this offense, and it was an element of the offense that the Giants were missing.
The 2nd play is awesome. This guy just does not seem to go down on 1st contact. The way he just bounces off of dudes and keeps going is just awesome. Amazing contact balance, or whatever the hell you call that More Highlights - ( New Window )
The key to the Toney pick: he has a lot of upside potential
We took a flyer on a kid who has quickness in the slot that far surpasses Shepard. I see him as our opening day punt returner and he'll be worked into the offense more and more as the season progresses.
The key is whether he will be that 90-1100-10 slot type guy who moves the chains and EXPLODES for some big plays when teams get lax.
Galloday, Toney, Slayton and Barkley are all Home Run threats. I am wondering now if in the 2nd we don't draft an OL (interior) to compete with both Lemiuex and Hernandez. I believe we will do just that.
But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.
But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.
I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
Every player you pick outside the top 5 needs to learn the craft. This isn't realistic. If you want a guy that you pick and don't mess with, then root for top 5 selections.
That’s from a Pro Day. He looks slower than that on tape, more like 4.5-4.6. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player, but that quoted 40 time looks deceptive to me.
That’s from a Pro Day. He looks slower than that on tape, more like 4.5-4.6. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player, but that quoted 40 time looks deceptive to me.
What tape are you watching? The tape I've seen clearly indicates 4.4 speed, maybe a tic faster. Seriously read any scout write up on him and they highlight his speed.
how Parsons, the best defensive player in this draft, was disqualified, yet and Toney wasn't...
This is the point. Feels very reminiscent of Eli Apple over Laremy Tunsil from a character perspective. Will have to wait and see. Have a feeling Parsons will be a perennial pro bowler and thorn in the Giants side. Toney is another in the long line of reaches. He may turn out to be great but he was properly graded as a second rounder in a very deep WR class because he will be more developmental as a route runner. More of a gadget player with great burst. Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw were much better choices at twenty.
Overall, a net positive day though since the trade was absolutely the right thing to do. Very good chance we will have two top fifteen picks next year...
About a week ago stating that from his sources, the character stuff wasn't as big a concern anymore (to teams), that he had really worked on rehabilitating his image over the last couple of years. Remember, reportedly, he hasn't had any issues since 2018.
Also, Judge has said he's particular about who he lets in the building. This gives me confidence that he is a-ok with Toney the personality and character-wise.
I think I'm gonna trust Judge on this one.
My first thought was that Sy had him as a 3rd rounder
but others liked him alot more. Seems dynamic. Hopefully he's not a screw up off the field and the talent comes through. I really thought Paye was going to be the pick.
That’s from a Pro Day. He looks slower than that on tape, more like 4.5-4.6. That doesn’t mean he can’t be a good player, but that quoted 40 time looks deceptive to me.
His tape shows speed comparable to Shep though he may be better at breaking tackles since he has more wiggle and possibly more burst. The big question though is his ability to get open and attract double coverage. That to me was the real need and why they loved Waddle and Smith since the goal is to try to get single coverage on Golladay. The Giants already have speed - Ross and Slayton are both faster than Toney. If Toney's route running does not become elite, this will have been a bad pick given the opportunity to draft Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw at twenty.
RE: My first thought was that Sy had him as a 3rd rounder
but others liked him alot more. Seems dynamic. Hopefully he's not a screw up off the field and the talent comes through. I really thought Paye was going to be the pick.
I asked lastnight and not sure anyone answered but I’d like to hear how much Sy dinged him for the character concerns. If it’s 3-4 points than that would otherwise put him right up there in the low 80’s.
I don’t think Sy dislikes the player.
RE: RE: My first thought was that Sy had him as a 3rd rounder
but others liked him alot more. Seems dynamic. Hopefully he's not a screw up off the field and the talent comes through. I really thought Paye was going to be the pick.
I asked lastnight and not sure anyone answered but I’d like to hear how much Sy dinged him for the character concerns. If it’s 3-4 points than that would otherwise put him right up there in the low 80’s.
how Parsons, the best defensive player in this draft, was disqualified, yet and Toney wasn't...
This is the point. Feels very reminiscent of Eli Apple over Laremy Tunsil from a character perspective. Will have to wait and see. Have a feeling Parsons will be a perennial pro bowler and thorn in the Giants side. Toney is another in the long line of reaches. He may turn out to be great but he was properly graded as a second rounder in a very deep WR class because he will be more developmental as a route runner. More of a gadget player with great burst. Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw were much better choices at twenty.
Overall, a net positive day though since the trade was absolutely the right thing to do. Very good chance we will have two top fifteen picks next year...
IIRC, one of our asshats mentioned something about Parsons' psychological profile that was a red flag as well. So it's not just character issues, like he hazed a guy in college. We would be in position to know given our Penn State connections. Toney has no such things in his record or history.
I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
I’d be more concerned about route running if he wasn’t losing defenders in space consistently. Or was just a vertical guy. This guy just puts DBs in a blender, which is nice.
I’m no scout but take a look at these highlights and especially the plays where he takes a hand off out of the backfield (2 of them). In those plays, he is in a situation where he needs to flat out run to extend the play and that added gear isn’t there.
My hot take is that he has elite quickness but below average speed. He’s a chain mover, which can be very useful. I frankly am not sure I like this pick but it’s likely Toney can help the Giants. I’m interested in seeing how the Giants use him in 3rd down situations. He could be a plus 3rd down back who consistently moves the chains. Toney 2020 highlights - ( New Window )
how Parsons, the best defensive player in this draft, was disqualified, yet and Toney wasn't...
This is the point. Feels very reminiscent of Eli Apple over Laremy Tunsil from a character perspective. Will have to wait and see. Have a feeling Parsons will be a perennial pro bowler and thorn in the Giants side. Toney is another in the long line of reaches. He may turn out to be great but he was properly graded as a second rounder in a very deep WR class because he will be more developmental as a route runner. More of a gadget player with great burst. Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw were much better choices at twenty.
Overall, a net positive day though since the trade was absolutely the right thing to do. Very good chance we will have two top fifteen picks next year...
IIRC, one of our asshats mentioned something about Parsons' psychological profile that was a red flag as well. So it's not just character issues, like he hazed a guy in college. We would be in position to know given our Penn State connections. Toney has no such things in his record or history.
I appreciate the nuance here, but after the Baker disaster, it would have seemed that Toney was the last guy Mara would have wanted... Time will tell.
Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
Samuel is a physical player. A strong runner. So is Toney. Very similar tools and versatility.
This is a really good addition to this offense. Perfect. An explosive slot guy, jet sweeps, quick screens and can run the plays that stretch the field in every way.
KWALL, from the very limited tape I've seen, Toney is not remotely in Samuel's class as a physical, tough to bring down runner. He would just as soon bull over a CB or S as try to juke him. I don't see Toney that way at all, not as strong or powerful. But, early days, hoping for the best.
stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida
I hope he does well, but more of a second rounder. We needed more and he was on the platter as Sy predicted. I trust in Sy's predictions more than my own.
If we had drafted Smith and he wore # 6 would have considered adding to my jersey collection. Meh on Toney until he proves to be more.
stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida
He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.
but he may be the most elusive. He'll be a terrific slot receiver. One who can get open on a consistent basis. I don't think he's as fast as OBJ in his prime, but to play the slot, he doesn't have to be.
stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida
He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.
Not to mention the QB's at the Senior Bowl this year were a case study of bad and worse. There is maybe 1 QB from that entire group that will go on Day 2 (Mond) and I am not even sure he threw to Toney.
Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
Samuel is a physical player. A strong runner. So is Toney. Very similar tools and versatility.
This is a really good addition to this offense. Perfect. An explosive slot guy, jet sweeps, quick screens and can run the plays that stretch the field in every way.
KWALL, from the very limited tape I've seen, Toney is not remotely in Samuel's class as a physical, tough to bring down runner. He would just as soon bull over a CB or S as try to juke him. I don't see Toney that way at all, not as strong or powerful. But, early days, hoping for the best.
I think it was against South Carolina that it seemed like 6 defenders were trying to bring down Toney and could not do it
stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida
He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.
Not to mention the QB's at the Senior Bowl this year were a case study of bad and worse. There is maybe 1 QB from that entire group that will go on Day 2 (Mond) and I am not even sure he threw to Toney.
Good point on the QBs
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this
They are saying Toney is the fugazi no name brand compared to their pick
Everyone is a fugazi no name brand compared to the Heisman winner.
That doesn't mean much. And it's not even an apples to apples comparison. One guy was picked at 10, one guy at 20 and the Giants also got an extra first and two mid/late round picks.
mostly curious about his ability to win outside. 6', 200lbs, 40 inch vert, above average hand size. He averaged 14 yards per catch so this isn't just some 5 yard dump and hope for some YAC guy. He makes down the field catches.
it dawned on me who he reminds me of most - Randall Cobb
same size, both played tough with the ball in their hands, wildcat QB experience, projected to be explosive slot players who take the occasional handoff. Toney tested way better than Cobb did and looks to have a little more elusiveness but Cobb obviously had some legitimate play speed and really big years as Rodgers' #1. Also returned kicks early in his career.
I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
I’d be more concerned about route running if he wasn’t losing defenders in space consistently. Or was just a vertical guy. This guy just puts DBs in a blender, which is nice.
I've been watching Toney videos all morning and I just see a lot of Chad Johnson in his game. I think he's a really good weapon to add, and he adds a dimension - even with Golladay - that we didn't have right now, although I'm still surprised that Paye wasn't the pick - that was my expectation as soon as we were on the clock.
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this
But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.
That's who he reminds me of, plus he's tough to tackle and d-backs bounce off of him. Got a lot of schoolyard in him.
...hard to tackle and has a huge catch radius. He really tracks the ball well.
For those stating, unequivocally, that he was a 2nd rd prospect...the NY Giants coaching staff, scout team and management disagrees.
For those stating the Giants coaching staff, scout team and management are satisfied with the team's performance for the last decade, the so called "no nothing" fans disagree.
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this
But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.
That's who he reminds me of, plus he's tough to tackle and d-backs bounce off of him. Got a lot of schoolyard in him.
He's taller and maybe not as fast (straightline speed), but his toughness and quickness sounds a lot like Steve Smith (Caroline version).
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this
They are saying Toney is the fugazi no name brand compared to their pick
What Philly radio is actually celebrating is the notion that the Eagles cleverly outmaneuvered the Giants and got a player that will torment the G-Men for ten years. They may be right.
still concerned about his prior legal problems, but as others have noted, the last of them was in 2018, and they were never that major. Judge and the staff vetted him back to high school.
Somebody else noted that Cole Beasley is also a rapper. Players have outside interests, but Toney has put out two or three albums, so you wonder if that might be too much of a distraction. He's also coming to the biggest media market in the country, and his first interview (skinny dipping at midnight?) was somewhat strange.
He's a phenomenal player. It doesn't really matter whether his 4.39 is his true speed. He gets separation with horizontal quickness, and is a very tough competitor. But the understandable desire to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible means that he has run a limited route tree.
This does to some extent look like we were trying to find someone similar to Smith, but Nate Burleson on GMF said Toney was the steal of the first round. He's extremely versatile, and can be used as a RB, WR, and PR. The Giants love versatile players.
I think he's a boom/bust project and therefore would have passed at #20, especially so soon after Baker and given the needs of the team, especially at WR. I would have taken Paye, but I understand why they took Toney.
RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Well DG/Abrams were still running things. But you'd think (hope) they'd revisit the Baker decision and try to figure out what went wrong and try to fix those issues.
I wonder if Baker was more studious and attentive in meetings, if they would've at least waited until the trial completed before cutting bait? Instead, it was often reported he didn't understand the schemes and would fall asleep in meetings. Probably wasn't long for the team anyway with work habits like that.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Well DG/Abrams were still running things. But you'd think (hope) they'd revisit the Baker decision and try to figure out what went wrong and try to fix those issues.
I wonder if Baker was more studious and attentive in meetings, if they would've at least waited until the trial completed before cutting bait? Instead, it was often reported he didn't understand the schemes and would fall asleep in meetings. Probably wasn't long for the team anyway with work habits like that.
How did he end up doing last year? Would it have been worth it to hold him?
RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Is his ability to gain separation from coverage before the pass. All We have seen the past few years is our QB having to throw to guys that are blanketed by a defender. This kid has the ability to make separation. He also catches with his hands not his body and looks to be a great asset to the Offense moving forward.
45 defensive snaps total and 11 ST snaps. So basically a lost season.
His 'advanced' stats in that time were basically comparable to his rookie season though. Targeted 5 times with 3 completions for 26 yards and a TD. QBs had a rating = 113.3, though obviously a small sample. Did add a sack and hurry though.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?
The constant negativity is tiresome.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Assuming the public info in both cases is everything, it's quite possible that Toney showed more remorse or at least convinced them (Judge/Gettleman/etc) that he learned from his mistakes, while Parsons didn't.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
I would have preferred if he was a country singer.
Thing isn’t right. Out of 150 catches he dropped 3 passes his whole career there. Only reason people saying his hands are inconsistent is because he dropped some passes at the senior bowl during practice. He actually has very good hands
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
How do rappers and thugs have anything to do with each other, besides overt racism?
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
I would have preferred if he was a country singer.
I'd prefer that he sang in the style of Greg Lake of ELP or a younger Roger Daltrey. Oh well.
Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.
Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.
I was referring to his judgment, not his football IQ, but I agree the phrase was inappropriate, and the last of the incidents was three years ago. His talent is awesome, but I would have nonetheless wanted a cleaner player at #20, especially after the Baker fiasco. Like many others, I would have taken Paye.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?
The constant negativity is tiresome.
You can't just hand wave away a decade of suckage and bad decisions. People will get TF over it when they actually win. As good as the team appears on paper, it's meaningless until it's proven on the field.
As far as the draft pick goes, I don't mind it and the trade down was masterfully done. Even if the pick is a bust getting thw bears #1 is great
Is it me or does the Toney pick feel like a pick of need vs
BPA? I mean it seems like we were ready to take Smith, got jumped, then were able to trade back and get a WR. So were we looking to focus on a position of perceived need, ie WR, and not so much worried about BPA? I don't know what player at 11 I would have been happy with. I thought Paye but he wound up going 21st!, maybe Parsons, maybe Farley or AVT. But at 20, I EXPECTED, Paye or OL or another EDGE. I feel like there will be more WR available day 2. Just hope they are right with KT.
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?
I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.
Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?
The constant negativity is tiresome.
Much like your posts regarding it...
RE: RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?
I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.
I was just making the point that the best of evaluators can be wrong on character. Time will tell on Parsons v Toney character.
Laremy Tunsil was off the Giants board because of "character" so they took Eli Apple. Big mistake. Huge.
Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.
Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
.
Your commentary is comical, they traded back nine spots for a jack-of- all kinds type of player, sorry if that doesn't excite me.
Steve Smith was bigger than Toney, do your homework.
Toney is faster.
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'. Link - ( New Window )
.
According to ESPN.com, that's what I saw.
Either way, he doesn't look very big on film.
Hey, there was some player drafted that was suppose to be
6'2'', and it turns out he is only 6 feet tall.
One is never quite sure, on these things.
From what I read it was two incidents related to a beef “locals” had with the football players stemming from $ lost betting on the team. First, the locals confronted the players at their dorm and threatened to return “strapped.” When they came back, the players met them and T and another player had airsoft rifles. If you don’t know, airsofts are like a cross between a BB/paintball type guns that are made to look like real guns. Second, after a traffic stop, officer noted a real AR15 on the back seat of his car. Apparently that is legal in FL; T explained he had the gun for protection against the “locals.” There could be more to the story, but that is what I read.
From what I read it was two incidents related to a beef “locals” had with the football players stemming from $ lost betting on the team. First, the locals confronted the players at their dorm and threatened to return “strapped.” When they came back, the players met them and T and another player had airsoft rifles. If you don’t know, airsofts are like a cross between a BB/paintball type guns that are made to look like real guns. Second, after a traffic stop, officer noted a real AR15 on the back seat of his car. Apparently that is legal in FL; T explained he had the gun for protection against the “locals.” There could be more to the story, but that is what I read.
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'. Link - ( New Window )
.
According to ESPN.com, that's what I saw.
Either way, he doesn't look very big on film.
Hey, there was some player drafted that was suppose to be
6'2'', and it turns out he is only 6 feet tall.
One is never quite sure, on these things.
I think we can be pretty sure that a guy who NFL.com lists as 6' isn't shorter than 5'9", as you posit.
It's only a problem if you line him up like a typical WR
This is what presnap motion is for. It's on Garrett to make this work. He's an in space player. You have to scheme ways to get him the ball. RPOs, sweeps, creative formations, screens.
is a good comp for Toney, at least in terms of start stop ability, vision, and the ability to successfully maneuver in traffic. Players like that are frustrating because they always seem to squirm away for at least a few extra yards. They make defenders right next to them completely whiff. You need an incredible ability to go immediately from full speed to a total stop to be able to that. Both players can. I do watch a lot of college football, and I've rarely seen a player who does better in traffic than Toney. He's the definition of elusive and slippery, as well as surprisingly strong and tough. Let's hope his character concerns and commitment won't be a problem, but as I said, it's surprising they did this, especially so soon after Baker.
Slippery is a good term he reminds me of Ike Hilliard but stronger. Folks are saying his catch rate is iffy but the numbers trend correctly. Now the talk of him having issues with contested catches looks to stem from body catching that can be coached up ... So hopefully Judge is right about him being unpolished and coachable (alluded to all college players are unfinished which is true) and the catch rate continues to trend upward. Catch Stats - ( New Window )
this story won't be cool to anyone but me, but my younger brother's wife's brother went to Florida, he lives in NYC now, good kid, we don't talk much, but he texted me after the Toney pick to say it wouldn't shock him if he's Tyreek/Antonio esque in the NFL, granted he's biased but he thinks he's that good/special
Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.
Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?
thanks in advance
Is it? If you line him up outside on line, you are using him wrong. We are really going to find out if Garrett is philosophically opposed to motion because Toney should be moving all over the place pre snap.
that a friend said a friend said that Toney might blow his hand off while shooting himself in the leg on boat ride between games after snorting coke and having had carnal relations with the coach's wife.
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
My prediction is that Shough, the QB who took Herbert's place at Oregon and then transferred to Texas Tech, is going to have a massive year. Then, if we draft him, we'll be subjected to terrible headlines like "The Shough Must Go On."
Bad: 13th percentile in success rate vs. man coverage and the 1st percentile against press
How is "success rate" measured here? Is it, downs that resulted in him personally catching the ball? Or, downs in which he, I don't know, fell on his ass while trying to free himself from press?
Because if it's the former, maybe they just tended to throw the ball to their mutant TE in almost all of those situations.
Cuts like a butter knife - ( New Window )
No chance he was going to be there at 42.
If you’re optimistic, then so am I
Fine with me ...
But a weird player for sure. Really interesting pick
J/k - just because I don't know a lot about him means nothing.
Nice compliment to Golladay and Slayton.
And LOVE the high #1 next year Fields will give us.
Hope I'm wrong.
Per Sy...
Just said the same...very interesting.
Quote:
20 seems high, especially with Paye on the board
No chance he was going to be there at 42.
Sy had a third round grade on him and lots of questions about him.
The inconsistent hands are like deja but all over again, but he’s got speed and he has value at 20.
And, is one more weapon.
Now, OL or Edge in Rd.2.
Thought he was more of very early 2nd rd guy...
I am left in contemplation....
And LOVE the high #1 next year Fields will give us.
That’s a very good comp.
Good explosion out of routes and cuts. Can run jet sweeps. Twitchy and can burn. The hands and drops scare me a bit but he’s not like butter hands Engram.
Suggests good chance both Engram and Shepard are gone after next season to me.
Sometimes the best picks you make are the ones you don't get to make, let's hope that happens here regarding smith and toney
Per Sy...
Quote:
There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling.
Let me bold this above...
Link - ( New Window )
Quote:
We have our Curtis Samuel.
And LOVE the high #1 next year Fields will give us.
That’s a very good comp.
Good explosion out of routes and cuts. Can run jet sweeps. Twitchy and can burn. The hands and drops scare me a bit but he’s not like butter hands Engram.
Suggests good chance both Engram and Shepard are gone after next season to me.
Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
Welcome to Big Blue Kadarius Toney!
Was so disappointed when Philly got Smith, but I'm super pleased with the way things have played out so far.
Usually I'm iffy on the Giants' 1st pick and need to be talked into it. This time I'm in from the jump
Really pleased wit this night. Just a great round 1 for Giants between the bears #1 and another playmaker to complement Golloday and Saquon.
This is the year to decide in Jones. He’s got an oline that gelled and now has a seriously upgraded set of weapons.
Hopefully he makes the leap. If he doesn’t, the Bears pick is super ammo to reload QB.
Hope he’s the goods.
?????
Toney - ( New Window )
This is a true surprise pick. He’s insanely athletic and talented, just didn’t think he’d be an option. I’m all aboard but man, still kinda shocked.
Still think he could a be guy who Jones relies on for a lot of short throws. Weird pick like I said before but really interesting.
Samuel was the guy I wanted in FA. Similar player.
But a weird player for sure. Really interesting pick
Kind of a Percy Harvin type
He should be able to step right in and play the slot.
Shep is likely gone after this season. Hopefully Slayton develops into a reliable outside weapon and he, Golladay and Toney are a great group.
It is incredibly important to have weapons this year for Jones. Hopefully the answer to the "is Jones a franchise quarterback" is answered with a yes after the 2021 season, but even if it's a no the most important thing is it's answered one way or the other. This guy should start from day 1 out of the slot and be able to make plays.
If Jones can't show he's a franchise QB this year with the weapons they now have, then they need to look for another QB next off-season
Yeah. Don’t get it. And a lot of injuries. They could have taken Moore and not gotten the baggage.
Toney 4.37
Adoree 4.42
full profile - ( New Window )
I dont see any route running issues. The character concerns are a question, but not route running imo. Focus is an issue which leads to some of his drops. I dont think he has bad hands, just a lack of focus sometimes. That can be fixed
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
That seems a bit harsh. I did like Elijah Moore and Bateman though.
Paye next pick
Harvin had a terrible career. Played in 16 games once in 8 years
Absolutely awful comparison. They're similar in that they're both black and play WR. That's where the comparisons end.
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
I think he’s a current starter but not a guy they see getting through a full year and with his cap number and injury history with concussions, he’s not a long term guy.
What I like: Playmaker, can take it to the house anytime he touches the ball. “Multiple”, lined up in the backfield, slot, outside and even threw a few passes. Really good run after the catch guy.
There were a couple other guys I would have rather have had but I’ve seen Toney high on a few lists, just not Sy’s....
Hope I'm wrong.
What do you think Waddle will be in MIA?
Toney ran a 4.39 at his Pro Day. Shepard is utilized on end rounds and pitches. Toney can perform those and break big plays.
Still think he could a be guy who Jones relies on for a lot of short throws. Weird pick like I said before but really interesting.
He ran a 4.37 at the combine. I don’t speed is an issue
Samuel is a physical player. A strong runner. So is Toney. Very similar tools and versatility.
This is a really good addition to this offense. Perfect. An explosive slot guy, jet sweeps, quick screens and can run the plays that stretch the field in every way.
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
Sheps good as gone after 2021.
As for Toney, he does complement Golladay and Slayton very well.
Not good at all! Very surprising pick...
If any coach can get this kid on track and keep him there - Judge can
Giants see talent here. Like always lets see how it plays out.-
100%. I said basically the same above. This year the jones question must be answered. Now they have enough weapons for him and he's been around long enough where they will know, and he's not in a new system again
To me that’s purely what this pick was about. They’re going to surround Jones with as many potential playmakers as possible in hopes they can avoid another disappointing year from DJ and having to search for another franchise QB.
Factor in the #1 next year (and I'll bet it being very high), we had a great day 1.
Toney 4.37
Adoree 4.42
I think there's a decent chance Ross doesn't even make the team. He's a lottery ticket at best.
quarterback at Trinity Gardens Park. He was a multi-sport athlete at Mattie T. Blount High School and led the team to a 20-5 record as the starting quarterback his
final two seasons. As a junior, Toney passed for 3,604 yards, rushed for 896 yards and totaled 53 touchdowns (37 passing, 16 rushing), earning Second Team Class 6A
all-state honors. He was named the 2016 Class 6A Back of the Year as a senior with 2,894 yards passing, 894 yards rushing and 47 total touchdowns (32 passing, 15
rushing). Toney finished his prep career with 120 total touchdowns. He also ran track in high school, setting personal bests in the 100 meters (11.50), javelin (148’)
and long jump (21’5).
A three-star recruit out of high school, Toney was the No. 25 athlete in the 2017 class and the No. 20 player in the state of Alabama. After his junior season, South
Alabama was his first offer, which set off an avalanche of offers including SEC programs like Florida, Ole Miss and South Carolina. With the opportunity to play
quarterback, Toney committed to the Gators prior to his senior year, holding firm to his choice despite a late push from Alabama. He saw snaps at quarterback when
he arrived in Gainesville, but was listed as an “athlete” on the roster all four seasons and transitioned full-time to wide receiver. Toney opted out of the bowl game
and accepted his invitation to the 2021 Senior Bowl, earning the top wide receiver award on the American team
STRENGTHS: His start/stop athleticism and rubber joints leave talented athletes awkward in pursuit…tremendous ankle flexion to explode out of his cuts…slips out of
tackle attempts due to his muscle twitch and body balance…owns the above average acceleration that defenders must account for with their angles…uses sudden
feet to manipulate coverage mid-route, creating separation…catches the ball well in stride…runs tougher than expected for his size, lowering his pads and using his
momentum to keep his feet through arm tackles…lined up everywhere on offense and has a “great football IQ,” according to former offensive coordinator Brian
Johnson…became the featured punt returner in 2020, averaging 12.6 yards per return and scoring once (11/139/1)…also returned kicks (21/324/0)…has the strongest
arm on the team, according to the Florida coaches, finishing 3-for-6 passing for 82 yards and one touchdown throw.
WEAKNESSES: Average frame with lean muscle build…electric foot quickness, but inconsistent steps vs. press and in/out of his breaks, often tipping defenders to his
route path…needs to improve his route tempo and better read coverage alignment to know where to sit down…not a proven pass-catcher on contested targets…most
of his drops were a result of running before securing the catch…underwhelming production over his first three seasons, partially because it took time to develop trust
with the coaches…some NFL scouts have voiced concern that he is more passionate about rapping than football (his stage name is Yung Joka)…off-field decisionmaking requires vetting due to multiple off-field incidents: suspended for the 2018 season opener after his involvement in an on-campus confrontation between
players and Gainesville locals where he painted an air-soft gun to look like an AR-15 assault rifle (May 2018); Pulled over by Gainesville Police, which revealed an
authentic and loaded AR-15 rifle in his back seat (July 2018) that Toney had “for protection because of the locals” (no charges filed)…missed chunks of playing time
due to injuries, sitting out multiple games as a freshman due to shoulder and shin issues (October 2017); missed half of his junior season with a left shoulder injury
(September 2019).
SUMMARY: A one-year starter at Florida, Toney lined up across the formation in head coach Dan Mullen’s offense, seeing snaps in the backfield, slot and outside. A
former high school quarterback, he was listed as an “athlete” on the Gators’ roster and battled injuries and transition issues his first three seasons before leading
Florida in receptions and receiving yards as a senior. A loose, elastic athlete, Toney routinely makes the first man miss with special start/stop twitch, frustrating
would-be tacklers and creating explosive plays. Though he is an improved route-runner, he remains a work in progress with his steps and tempo, and his freelancing
will backfire at times. Overall, Toney is still more of a gadget player than polished receiver (and his off-field and durability will be debated in war rooms), but he
boasts the one-step burst, body balance and underrated toughness to be a big-play ignitor. He projects as a versatile NFL weapon on offense and special teams.
GRADE: 1st-2nd Round (No. 28 overall)
Unreal upside in a scheme that knows how to maximize versatile linemen. Powerful hands and base with underrated athletic ability. Elite run defender and could pair with Buckner to supply top tier interior pass rush.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
If any coach can get this kid on track and keep him there - Judge can
He only had issues with catching at the Senior Bowl when he played with 4 QB's he never played with before. I know that all the other WR's did the same but it was not an issue during real gameday with him
Quote:
Terrible value
Absolutely awful comparison. They're similar in that they're both black and play WR. That's where the comparisons end.
Both also went to college in Florida and with my wife as my witness neither has been in my kitchen.
Toney Highlights - ( New Window )
Shepard’s role is very confusing now though
Shep played outside with the Tate signing. His role doesn't change from last two years.
but if the Bears are awful and like league worst awful and the Giants are too (and they play each other by the way), and the Giants have #1 and #2 in the 2022 draft how long has it been since that's happened? Colts? 1992? or did someone else do it since?
And as I keep saying: Every team's board is going to be different. if he fits what the Giants need/want, that works for me.
I don’t care for the pick, but this is quite possibly the dumbest post of the night.
Interesting read - ( New Window )
I like this kid. AMazing hl reel.
Keep it Real
No Name
Fat Rue
That first catch and run (spin) was amazing.
Florida used him on a lot on jet sweeps and creative plays running the ball from motion...
Oh, FFS - you have no fucking clue what you're talking about
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
Guns? Are you fucking serious? Oh good Lord.
Was the gun illegally owned or operated? If not exercising your constitutional rights is now a red flag?
He doesn’t have questionable hands. Was very surehanded at Florida.
LMAO...We have a Zoom Psychologist on board BBI now
and come next year, we have 2 #1s, so, there's that!
He doesn't have bad hands.
Moore is 5'9 - I dont get why people keep bringing him up. Toney will be a good NFL wr.
Oh well. Shitty draft although I like the 1st rounder and extra picks. Let’s see what we do the rest of the weekend.
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You could even play him at RB. Shifty guy with excellent YAC resume
Florida used him on a lot on jet sweeps and creative plays running the ball from motion...
I like the pick Googs given the trade down
Plus Moore is shorter than 5'10". Tough to draft that short a WR in the first round.
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Jones has to show something big in 2021, otherwise NYG has two #1's a year from now to consider a replacement. Better sooner than later.
100%. I said basically the same above. This year the jones question must be answered. Now they have enough weapons for him and he's been around long enough where they will know, and he's not in a new system again
I fear that you might hear that next year that his OL wasn't good enough so you'll hear "Can't blame him for that. . . "
Such an unbelievable exhibit against a hated rival couldn’t be matched, but Toney sure gave it a try with a couple of elusive plays in 2020. He punctuated a 57-yard touchdown catch against South Carolina by blasting through a crowd of five defenders. Then against Mizzou, he dodged four tackles on a quick screen touchdown that required replay to properly behold."
From report above. Worth the copy and paste.
He plants and explodes. It leads to a wide open target.
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so people can't say it wasn't known like in the case of deandre baker Link - ( New Window )
Was the gun illegally owned or operated? If not exercising your constitutional rights is now a red flag?
yeah he didn't break any laws and I don't want to get into a guns debate, but you have to admit him owning AR-15 is going to be an issue for some the Tri-State area.
So, we took another Baker instead of a much more highly rated model citizen?
If any coach can get this kid on track and keep him there - Judge can
If hands can be fixed, what is going in with Engram? Have the Giants not realized that needs work?
I said the same thing lol...but the guy looks explosive and could be real weapon for us.
Plus Moore is shorter than 5'10". Tough to draft that short a WR in the first round.
SY didn't have him near 4th.
I especially like the Bears as the counterparts because I think they could definitely regress this year.
link - ( New Window )
I especially like the Bears as the counterparts because I think they could definitely regress this year.
Extra two picks
What apparently meant more to them - (at least) 5 picks in the top 100 of the 2022 draft. They did more in FA than we thought they could financially. That came with a price, and DG basically acknowledged that next year would be the pressure point as a result. Why not 2 top 100s in a year like that.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
Are you close to Judge? Are you close enough to give a diagnosis of what he is thinking? Can you read his mind?
If not, how the hell do you know what he is thinking or feeling?
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Is more Saquon Barkley than anyone in the draft since. He’s special at cutting and exploding. But his speed isn’t even great and he doesn’t play as strong as you’d like.
Still think he could a be guy who Jones relies on for a lot of short throws. Weird pick like I said before but really interesting.
He ran a 4.37 at the combine. I don’t speed is an issue
I don’t think he plays to the 4.37 speed. Like most of this COVID Pro Dau times, I’d deduct .1 from that time.
What he does have is insanely quick twitch and short area explosiveness. Rare for even an NFL athlete. If he can turn that into a key strength, he could be a stud.
Heavy talk of him going to GB in R1.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
He's never been convicted of anything. And he's from the hood so owning a gun is very very good idea.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
Plaxico was much bigger than Toney and outmuscled defensive backs; Toney’s more the speedy slot guy.
No offense but has Sy built any superbowl winners?
3 for 150 is what I read. Not exactly questionable.
Seriously though, when looking at the clips of all the top WR's in this year class, his stood out. The term Human Joystick applies to him, though doesn't seem like he plays up to the 4.37 time.
Moore is 5'8, Toney is at least 5'11 or 6'. Well, I guess Jones doesn't have an excuse this year...
Watch highlights of Toney and you will feel much better about the pick.
"DOWN IN FRONT"
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In comment 15243291 montanagiant said:
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You could even play him at RB. Shifty guy with excellent YAC resume
Florida used him on a lot on jet sweeps and creative plays running the ball from motion...
I like the pick Googs given the trade down
Yeah, not against grabbing a weapon even with the drop down. Feels like he could have gone Rd 2 but he’s some game.
I watch only SEC games and he made a crap load of big plays.
Not popular pick here. Hopefully he outperforms Bateman and Moore otherwise won’t look good for front office yet again...
Sy conclusion:
Not the most ringing endorsement...
Round 1 • Pick 20 (20)
The speedy pass catcher is a roadrunner on the perimeter with exceptional stop-start quickness and burst. Toney is one of the few playmakers in the draft with the capacity to score from anywhere on the field on deep balls or catch-and-run plays.
Dont love pick
Hope we trade shep now
"DOWN IN FRONT"
I just bought his rap album. BBI needs to get on board we da joka!
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Lovely.
No offense but has Sy built any superbowl winners?
None taken. He's drafted better than the Giants for some time now.
Totally agree. Add Saquon back and there are going to be some matchup nightmares. Very excited!
I see them sending him in jet sweep motions with teams worried about Barkley or Jones in RPO's now they have to worry about jet sweeps and screens...
he is a human joystick.
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Figured Moore was the safer play. No character problems, he was THE guy there. At like 18 he was getting snaps with DK and Brown at Ole Miss. At 19 he was putting up numbers in the SEC. Didn't have the character problems. In a 1v1 situation choosing between the two he made a lot more sense. I've seen plenty of Toney too, so I get what they're bringing in with the player. The Giants are good at scouting WRs and the pick itself is lifted by a bunch of picks including one that will probably be higher than 20 next year, just not sure about the decision here with a high floor Edge in Paye and what I consider a better WR on the board.
Moore is 5'9 - I dont get why people keep bringing him up. Toney will be a good NFL wr.
That's probably why they went that way, I guess you can project Toney to Z better than Moore but I think with Slayton in the fold you can grab that pure slot stud in Moore.
Didnt he run a 4.37
Id say his speed and quickness are best part of game
Oh well. Shitty draft although I like the 1st rounder and extra picks. Let’s see what we do the rest of the weekend.
This. We took a 2nd rounder in the first. WTF.
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WR in round 2. The value there was Paye if he was really a fit.
Oh well. Shitty draft although I like the 1st rounder and extra picks. Let’s see what we do the rest of the weekend.
This. We took a 2nd rounder in the first. WTF.
He wouldnt have been there at 42
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...but is picking the 4th rated WR instead of the 3rd rated WR worth bitching about?
Nice that Sy posts here but making him the gospel is ridiculous. He’s wrong as often as they all are.
Plus Moore is shorter than 5'10". Tough to draft that short a WR in the first round.
SY didn't have him near 4th.
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hands thing can be fixed.
If any coach can get this kid on track and keep him there - Judge can
If hands can be fixed, what is going in with Engram? Have the Giants not realized that needs work?
Slayton was a late pick because he was a drop machine even though he had track speed. Toney was at worst going top second round.
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He doesn't have elite speed. But he plays physical and breaks tackles. I bet he'll be a great blocker. Think Jarvis Landry in terms of what he offers but Beckham in terms of style.
Didnt he run a 4.37
Id say his speed and quickness are best part of game
Watch his games. He gets caught from behind sometimes. His short area burst is elite. His long speed not so much.
I'd like to say you can trace risky behavior back to Judge,but there's more than one in there.
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A slot receiver with questionable hands at 20?
He doesn’t have questionable hands. Was very surehanded at Florida.
I think he dropped 3 (?) passes last year
Sometimes the best picks you make are the ones you don't get to make, let's hope that happens here regarding smith and toney
Here, here!
He's a pure slot imo. Shep and Slayton will play the other outside spot.
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Lovely.
Sy conclusion:
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*There are some teams that have Toney in the top 5 according to one of the very few media resources I trust and speak with. That really surprises me. I won’t give details here but there are a few serious red flags with character, and I just don’t see Toney having a high ceiling. He is as tough as they come, and I love his stop-go quickness. He will make plays with the ball in his hands. But there is a cap to his speed, he doesn’t play very big, and there are a lot of shortcomings I see when it comes to routes/ball skills/awareness etc. Really intrigued to see where he goes.
Not the most ringing endorsement...
Sy was very down on him. I believe I questioned it on that WR thread.
Toney isn’t a “typical” WR. He has a really weird and unique skillset. He could either be a freakish Welker/Landry hybrid or a complete nothing. It’s a risky draft pick for sure.
The fact they took him over Paye makes me think the truly love him as a prospect.
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He doesn't have elite speed. But he plays physical and breaks tackles. I bet he'll be a great blocker. Think Jarvis Landry in terms of what he offers but Beckham in terms of style.
Didnt he run a 4.37
Id say his speed and quickness are best part of game
Been watching highlights. Dude’s change of direction ability is uncanny. In an nfl that eschews form tackling for armless hits, he’s going to rack up YAC.
Jet sweeps make him a nice piece for Garrett.
Judge never looks happy.
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In comment 15243338 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15243291 montanagiant said:
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You could even play him at RB. Shifty guy with excellent YAC resume
Florida used him on a lot on jet sweeps and creative plays running the ball from motion...
I like the pick Googs given the trade down
Yeah, not against grabbing a weapon even with the drop down. Feels like he could have gone Rd 2 but he’s some game.
I watch only SEC games and he made a crap load of big plays.
Not popular pick here. Hopefully he outperforms Bateman and Moore otherwise won’t look good for front office yet again...
Being in the Midwest my son was a huge Bateman fan. The problem is I saw Bateman disappear at times. I like the fact we have Shepard's replacement and while Shep did a decent job for us he was never the YAC threat we needed at slot.
Or edge.
This may work out better for us.
Its Curtis Samuel with better short area explosive moves.
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Lol if you think they panicked. They clearly dont love payes lack of production
Its Curtis Samuel with better short area explosive moves.
Samuel is a worse player than both imo.
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Have one iota to do with him playing football?
"DOWN IN FRONT"
I just bought his rap album. BBI needs to get on board we da joka!
I would buy it and frame it if he titled it "Get off the Grass"
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
And it only gets better on Saturday morning when ten guys list the top guys not crossed out as ‘steals.’
Its Curtis Samuel with better short area explosive moves.
Toney isn’t that fast. He’s been caught from behind too often. Long speed isn’t his thing.
Short area speed though? Crazy. Hopefully he can flip that into a great career.
Airsoft guns and was stopped for an open weapons carry that turned out to not be a violation. Hasn't got in trouble since early in his college career
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This kid had some issues with guns back in 2018 and some scouts questioned his passion for football as he is a rappeer.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
Guns? Are you fucking serious? Oh good Lord.
Air soft gun. A pellet gun.
Surprising to imagine Smith, Fields and Parsons go right where we were and we wound up with Toney though. But next years first rounder too I guess...
Its Curtis Samuel with better short area explosive moves.
Do you think Garrett knows what to do with that beyond a couple of end arounds?
Well, we also picked up a 4th this year and a 1st and 5th next year. That has to be taken into account
The Giants disagree. Doesn’t that count for a lot?
Shepard hasn't been playing slot for three years. We replaced Tate with this pick.
Just one drill. Vertical. Toney jumped 1ft+ higher. 28 to 41.
That difference is ENORMOUS and shows the clear difference in the type of athlete you're dealing with.
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Not sure I'm thrilled. What do we do now with Shep?
Well, we also picked up a 4th this year and a 1st and 5th next year. That has to be taken into account
1 and 5 this year
1 and 4 next
Also, guys who can create and run close to the line (Barkley, Jones, Toney) will keep the defense aware and probably do wonders for guys like Slaytonand Golliday going deeper.
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Not a comp for our guy.
Its Curtis Samuel with better short area explosive moves.
Do you think Garrett knows what to do with that beyond a couple of end arounds?
He's so much better than Samuel. Samuel has shit hands. Toney is a legit receiver.
There is an Alabama connection still.
Has some pretty clear red flags.
There seems to be a bunch of compares to OBJ skills
Lol ues sy is god.
Tony was always a first rounder early second latest
Surprising to imagine Smith, Fields and Parsons go right where we were and we wound up with Toney though. But next years first rounder too I guess...
Yeah, I also wanted the big name but I really like the strategic move of loading up for next season with picks in case DJ is not the guy. This puts the pressure we want on DJ to either step up or step aside.
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Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Pipe down chucklehead...
no offense to Sy...he does great work.
but the giants dont pick based on what Sy thinks.
Just one drill. Vertical. Toney jumped 1ft+ higher. 28 to 41.
That difference is ENORMOUS and shows the clear difference in the type of athlete you're dealing with.
Maybe Landry isn’t the best comp. but I always thought he had insane quickness even if his speed isn’t great. Could be wrong on that.
I feel like that’s Toney. I don’t buy the Pro Day 40z I do buy the quickness which is insane to anyone who has eyes. Does he have the other skills necessary to take advantage of it? We’ll see.
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In comment 15243477 PatersonPlank said:
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Not sure I'm thrilled. What do we do now with Shep?
Well, we also picked up a 4th this year and a 1st and 5th next year. That has to be taken into account
1 and 5 this year
1 and 4 next
You're correct, my bad. Thanks BB
He isn't a straight line speed guy, but that's what Slayton is for.Giants didn't have a player like this. Shepard is solid, but Toney is a sports car version of shepard.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
Link - ( New Window )
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
So you're taking back all the compliments you gave Toney throughout the process? You're full of shit.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
So, you’re upset they traded down?
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Agree on the Shepard point. Always said he never ran with his feet underneath him...slips and stumbles. Toney is the exact opposite actually.
Surprising to imagine Smith, Fields and Parsons go right where we were and we wound up with Toney though. But next years first rounder too I guess...
Yeah, I also wanted the big name but I really like the strategic move of loading up for next season with picks in case DJ is not the guy. This puts the pressure we want on DJ to either step up or step aside.
Yep.
What do you think rd 2? OL or maybe if some edge guy falls?
He isn't a straight line speed guy, but that's what Slayton is for.Giants didn't have a player like this. Shepard is solid, but Toney is a sports car version of shepard.
As a guy who is calling him a “slot guy”, I mean no disrespect by that. That’s the way the game is played now. You need guys who control the middle of the field with consistent yardage.
That’s from almost 3 years ago. It’s not against the law to own a firearm.
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In comment 15243457 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Pipe down chucklehead...
I hit too close to home.
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Not sure I'm thrilled. What do we do now with Shep?
Shepard hasn't been playing slot for three years. We replaced Tate with this pick.
Only due to necessity. So what this really means is we still have a good slot guy, and are still depending on Slayton outside (with Golliday of course too). I hope he's good, but I'm not jumping up and down about his pick.
Having said that I love the #1 next year
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
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In comment 15243306 Rick in Dallas said:
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This kid had some issues with guns back in 2018 and some scouts questioned his passion for football as he is a rappeer.
Judge better have done his homework on this kid.
Guns? Are you fucking serious? Oh good Lord.
Air soft gun. A pellet gun.
No, he also had a real one but apparently he had a permit for it.
I really can't see the comparison.
My vertical right now is closer to Landry than Landry is to Toney. Hahahaha right? but true.
If I had to guess - what JJ really wanted was the additional capital this year and esp next year.
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
So, you’re upset they traded down?
Not at all. The red flag issue here is very intriguing to me. I'd love to know what disqualified Parsons...
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
Yeah. But with the extra first rounder next year, it balances out. And could be gold if we need to pick a new QB...
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
it actaully is if you live in the south. AR parts are sold out everywhere because of the demand.
I’d rather the story be the guy really established himself, and has a day one position *and* as a bonus can do some gadget stuff.
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
So you're taking back all the compliments you gave Toney throughout the process? You're full of shit.
No. I'm trying to understand Sy's grading.
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In comment 15243467 broadbandz said:
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In comment 15243457 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
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Let's wait to see what DG and JJ have to say about the pick, and let's see what they do tomorrow. Toney is clearly a real talent. We need to be supportive of him because he is now a New York Giant.
nah multiple bbi posters are just looking forward to the day they can rip on him and DG in a future thread. They are actively rooting against him and the giants. It's really sick the psyche of some posters here.
Pipe down chucklehead...
I hit too close to home.
No, you swung and missed twice now.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
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In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
So you're taking back all the compliments you gave Toney throughout the process? You're full of shit.
No. I'm trying to understand Sy's grading.
Same grading system that gave high marks to people like Aaron Curry, Josh Rosen, etc.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
I appreciate Sy's work here, but why do we have to reconcile it?
What makes Sy's ratings any different than the many other people who do what he does on the internet? He gives us a ton of content but his rankings aren't worth anything more to me than other true draftniks.
Not a shot at him, but just because he posts a lot of stuff on BBI doesn't mean we should hold his rankings in much higher regard than others.
Once Smith was off the board, the Bears trade was by far the best option for the Giants.
I think the Bears are going to be top 10 bad next year too. Regardless that pick will be very valuable.
I really can't see the comparison.
My vertical right now is closer to Landry than Landry is to Toney. Hahahaha right? but true.
I was surprised by that vertical. Now I don’t even how Landry caught 100 passes multiple times lol. I still feel like he’s quick and explosive but you got me there.
Trust me, I like Toney more than most but he’s a weird prospect. I don’t love the Samuel comp you give him because I know you wanted Samuel in FA and are maybe trying to force that comp. Toney isn’t nearly as fast as that 40 time imo. The quickness is 10/10 but the speed isn’t that level.
If he combines route running/timing with his quickness, sky’s the limit in terms of catches .
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In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I get it. I'd love to know what Sy specifically knows about Toney vs Parsons. Because my guess is he knows quite a bit - like he knew about Baker - and still didn't knock Parsons because of it...
BTW, we had a guy named Victor Cruz who really did drop passes and he was beloved here. This guy appears to have VCs quickness and moves and about the same size (but has better hands).
I did not like the pick, but re-read Sy's report. Take out the red flag stuff(which we now know is because he had two gun incidents for possession, not use). Actually Sy writes him up pretty well, says a lot of good things about him and I really think SY dinged him hard on the gun issues, which he would have to do. But this is a quote from Sy "Toney has joystick quickness and change of direction whether he is running routes or carrying the ball. He is the kind of guy that can miss contact in the phone booth and will always fight for more yards. Toney plays bigger and tougher than his frame suggests. It will be hard to find a more competitive spark plug than him."
IMHO, pretty good praise.
Time will tell.
Sy provides good information but when did he become the all knowing? All NFL front offices make mistakes and are wrong some times. Is Sy ever wrong?
Also had strong games against LSU and South Carolina. In biggest games he came up big.
Hard to compare Troy State with big time SEC football.Toney turned down Alabama to play for the Gators. This is definitely not Jernigan.
It’s Florida dude. That is totally normal
I'm on board with the whole trade and pick though. It's close toan A for me, you get that high potential future 1 so the pick is close to gravy with our blue chip targets off the board.
I doubt bw values that Sy opinion. Let’s not pick and choose when we want to reference Sy. I love his work here, but be consistent at least.
I appreciate Sy's work here, but why do we have to reconcile it?
What makes Sy's ratings any different than the many other people who do what he does on the internet? He gives us a ton of content but his rankings aren't worth anything more to me than other true draftniks.
Not a shot at him, but just because he posts a lot of stuff on BBI doesn't mean we should hold his rankings in much higher regard than others.
Once Smith was off the board, the Bears trade was by far the best option for the Giants.
I think the Bears are going to be top 10 bad next year too. Regardless that pick will be very valuable.
Mook - I liked the trade. Absolutely no issue with that.
But Toney was probably going to be available in round two.
I doubt bw values that Sy opinion. Let’s not pick and choose when we want to reference Sy. I love his work here, but be consistent at least.
So I shouldn't reference Sy's opinion about red flags? Serious red flags?
It is a big red flag for someone to own a gun legally?
They also drafted Breshad Perriman in the first round. He lasted two...2 seasons with them. He was drafted in 2015 and is on his 6th team. They overall do a good job drafting but haven't been stellar at drafting WRs.
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is when we pick and choose when we want to reference Sy. You know who Sy had as the BPA in 2018? Saquon Barkley.
I doubt bw values that Sy opinion. Let’s not pick and choose when we want to reference Sy. I love his work here, but be consistent at least.
So I shouldn't reference Sy's opinion about red flags? Serious red flags?
That's the issue here. Sy really underscored that in his evaluation.
Or perhaps you didn't read it...
bw in dc : 3/17/2021 10:48 am : link
has been discussed above. But he's unquestionably a first round talent. And I like his body type much better than Smith's at the next level. So from a talent perspective a case can be made for him at #11.
However, his character is a knock. And you just can't make high investments with those question marks.
The trade and picks are absolutely fine.
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Which teams? Please be specific.
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Most of the dossier on Toney...
bw in dc : 3/17/2021 10:48 am : link
has been discussed above. But he's unquestionably a first round talent. And I like his body type much better than Smith's at the next level. So from a talent perspective a case can be made for him at #11.
However, his character is a knock. And you just can't make high investments with those question marks.
See the bold.
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the 2022 1st rd pick from the Bears is protected?
No. That is a hockey thing.
Not a hockey thing.......A basketball thing.
I do not trust the Ravens drafting WRs though. That has been a weakness.
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In comment 15243533 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
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Due to the incidents
Which teams? Please be specific.
The Eagles. That's why the fucked us in the first place.
:-)
Inherently untrustworthy take to have.
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In comment 15243544 chopperhatch said:
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In comment 15243533 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
How TF could you possibly know anyone’s board?
Didn't these incidents happen his freshman year - 3 or 4 years ago? I read it and cannot remember. If he kept his nose clean for 3 or 4 years, he may have figured it out.
Somebody just remind him that a Florida or Alabama gun permit is not valid north of Virginia.....
https://www.giants.com/news/kadarius-toney-nfl-draft-2021-florida-gators-wide-receiver - ( New Window )
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In comment 15243573 BleedBlue said:
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In comment 15243544 chopperhatch said:
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In comment 15243533 nygiants16 said:
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In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
The Giants have a coach who coached Paraons at Penn State..
They also have the guy who recruited Toney to florida and knows pretty mjch everything about him..
So safe to say what they heard about Parsons was probably worse than Toney
I just wish bw would get a fucking life.
Hes the worst, nasally shit poster on this board.
Terps is 1 bw close 2 googs 3
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
No, but thats not what he does. He deliberately stirs shit irrelevant to the current discussion. Apparently Im not the only one who feels that way.
ELITE lateral agility for both guys. Similar frame. Toney may have a bit more speed. Obviously needs to develop as a route runner- Diggs is elite in that area.
Inherently untrustworthy take to have.
Oh please. Sy is super dialed in with the NFL and doesn't just make his opinions public without his homework.
I'm not saying Sy's word is gospel, but don't make it seem like I'm on a limb here.
Last year you had Samuel playing RB, running jet sweeps, and catching screens out side. Toney does this. It is the perfect comp.
Yes, I wanted Samuel. But I like KG a lot. And now we have Toney with him and the high first next year. I love that.
If Barkley is back, Jones will have a loaded set of skill players. Giants are a tough matchup with this crew. Really tough.
Puts into perspective how much these mocks are crapshoots after the first 10 players or so and why getting mad at the pick is really really narrow minded.
ELITE lateral agility for both guys. Similar frame. Toney may have a bit more speed. Obviously needs to develop as a route runner- Diggs is elite in that area.
I think Toney is more physical of a player though. And he'll be a slot not outside.
Hahaha. What?
No, but thats not what he does. He deliberately stirs shit irrelevant to the current discussion. Apparently Im not the only one who feels that way.
What exactly have I written thus far on this that is so controversial?
Not a crime - ( New Window )
He’s not huge, but he’s not slight 5’11 and 189 senior bowl measurements.
So I’m struggling to reconcile the two statements. Can anyone help me figure out the picture that is being painted here?
Ar-15 in Florida? Meh. Hope he’s a firecracker for us.
He was my #4 (if his back ground checked out). I’m guessing the giants did there homework.
He had a great year against top competition and we now have a 5th, a first and a 4th next year. Solid work.
He’s not huge, but he’s not slight 5’11 and 189 senior bowl measurements.
So I’m struggling to reconcile the two statements. Can anyone help me figure out the picture that is being painted here?
I think he means he won't play outside, but he can be physical in the slot.
This is a concern with all these country boys. I'm not saying it doesn't matter and all you can do is make sure they're clear on the local laws. I assure you he isn't the only player in this draft who owns a gun.
“For a shorter receiver, Toney's hand measurement should be comforting. He never struggled with drops at Florida - posting three in four seasons - and mitts that size shouldn't struggle with a larger ball in the pros.”
Gators seni9r bowl players - ( New Window )
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In comment 15243608 MartyNJ1969 said:
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Due to the incidents
Which teams? Please be specific.
The Eagles. That's why the fucked us in the first place.
The Eagles took Toney off their board as toxic and then traded in front of us so as to force us to trade down to 20 and pick a toxic player?
That’s purely Machiavellian.
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In NJ/NY with AR-15? This isnt Florida.
Hahaha. What?
I guess he doesn't know you can owned one legally in NJ, but difficult to get, but easier than a hand gun.
I just joked about the Giants letting him know his Florida or Alabama gun permit is not valid in NJ...
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But as a pro for Toney he lists “plays bigger and tougher than his frame suggests.” Then, as a con “he doesn’t play very big.”
He’s not huge, but he’s not slight 5’11 and 189 senior bowl measurements.
So I’m struggling to reconcile the two statements. Can anyone help me figure out the picture that is being painted here?
I think he means he won't play outside, but he can be physical in the slot.
Thanks, Adam!
Why is Nobody Talking about Kadarius Toney at 11? - ( New Window )
@Ourlads_Sy
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1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
Why is Nobody Talking about Kadarius Toney at 11? - ( New Window )
Take a bow you magnificent bastard!
That's on the Giants to prepare him for the media, which they usually do a good job of. Part of the process is schooling rookies on how to interview.
That said like the idea of the pick, like the picks next year....we'll see in 3 years.
thats all there it is guys
pc
-r
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
Eric just quoted Sy above. Aside from the red flags he mentions, he is quite complementary of Toney. Reading the right up, he seems he should have a higher grade, but got hit hard because of the gun issues.
I also do not think he will be the last WR they take.
@NFLResearch
Kadarius Toney Selected 20th Overall by
@Giants
O. Beckham Jr. >K. Toney
Height 5’ 11 1/4” 5’ 11 5/8”
Weight 198 193
40-Yd 4.43 4.37
Vertical 38 1/2” 39 1/2”
> Unofficial Pro Day
:-)
the fuck does that mean?
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It was just an idea at the time.....but I stand by everything I said. Tremendous addition and a special football player.
Why is Nobody Talking about Kadarius Toney at 11? - ( New Window )
Take a bow you magnificent bastard!
Congrats mittenedman, I remembered the post but not who said it.
Lets keep it up the next few days
I'll show myself out....
Giants Exploring trading down... - ( New Window )
@Young_Slay2
Lawd have mercy we got ballers everywhere let’s goooo #giantsprideDouble exclamation mark
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
"Needs the right offensive mind" is key. Is Garrett going to get this guy in positions to catch the ball at speed and maximize YAC? Doesn't seem like his forte. Toney feels like a perfect fit for KC, SF, or the Rams.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
My biggest concern in terms of immediate impact. Great in theory but I'm worried about the same kind of stale forced touches we saw with Engram last year going to Toney.
ryanmkeane : 3/17/2021 10:26 am : link
but the Giants will absolutely not be drafting this guy
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
ryanmkeane : 3/17/2021 10:26 am : link
but the Giants will absolutely not be drafting this guy
Ryan throws down absolutes like the drug store gumball machine, lol
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David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
"Needs the right offensive mind" is key. Is Garrett going to get this guy in positions to catch the ball at speed and maximize YAC? Doesn't seem like his forte. Toney feels like a perfect fit for KC, SF, or the Rams.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
Garrett seems to love that jet sweep WR handoff. Might be what he saw in his mind when they picked him.
Lots of BBI had the same opinion as me on Toney - who cares.
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David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
"Needs the right offensive mind" is key. Is Garrett going to get this guy in positions to catch the ball at speed and maximize YAC? Doesn't seem like his forte. Toney feels like a perfect fit for KC, SF, or the Rams.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
I know you’re just being you here, but the trade does help us in case Jones doesn’t “prove it”. Optimistically (or realistically) though, my choice would be to parlay those picks into a top tier edge (gotta believe next years class will be better than this years) and eschew one this draft.
Just need the line to hold up.
Early on, I thought his size would drop him to the 2nd and was told that there would be no way he would make it there. I think this is a very interesting pick given what we currently have at the skill spots. Barkley out of the backfield, Slayton and Golladay on the outside, Engram (meh) and Rudolph up the seam and Toney all over the place.
Wonder if we'll see both he and Barkley start in the backfield.
Now go get me a Guard that eats babies.
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My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
OK... this made me chuckle.
Adding Chicago's first round pick next year is an absolute grand slam. The 4th round pick is nice too, that could end up right around pick #100.
So I would have definitely done the Chicago trade.
I don't know if I'd have selected Toney.
But I understand the logic. Just watch the highlights against Bama in the SEC Championship game.
Kadarius Toney vs. Alabama 12/19/2020 - ( New Window )
Excellent excellent points
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My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
I hope it's not true but it feels like it.
OTOH, if DJ doesn't deliver we have draft capitol to get a QB next year.
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In comment 15243808 KWALL2 said:
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My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
He gets caught from behind too often. He isn’t a pure speed guy. He’s a guy with alien quickness. Super unique player.
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David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
My biggest concern in terms of immediate impact. Great in theory but I'm worried about the same kind of stale forced touches we saw with Engram last year going to Toney.
My fear too. I’d much rather read a WR has command of the route tree, has a natural feel for the position, and has perfected the craft.
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My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Osi, thats a great combo....I actually thought he reminded me of Welker at first. But combining Welker's quickness with Landry's toughness and some vert to go with it? Thats a helluva a player!
Like you, I also dont take these pro day 40s seriously, but I dont shave a full .1. I think .05-.07 is generally the margin for error for me. So 4.44 for a guy with quicks like his and jumps 40 is an awfully scary threat.
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In comment 15243808 KWALL2 said:
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My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Osi, thats a great combo....I actually thought he reminded me of Welker at first. But combining Welker's quickness with Landry's toughness and some vert to go with it? Thats a helluva a player!
Like you, I also dont take these pro day 40s seriously, but I dont shave a full .1. I think .05-.07 is generally the margin for error for me. So 4.44 for a guy with quicks like his and jumps 40 is an awfully scary threat.
I remember now. Ahmad Bradshaw was the guy who he reminded me of in terms of cutting, as a WR. Is he worth the 20th pick? Not sure, felt like a slight reach overall but who am I to say. But he is absolutely a one of a kind prospect in this draft. Not a single other player moves like him. Didn’t think Gettleman would go for that in a trade down.
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In comment 15243714 Eric from BBI said:
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David Syvertsen
@Ourlads_Sy
·
1h
#20 NYG: Kadarius Toney - WR/Florida
Exciting playmaker with joystick quickness/agility. Improved his stock via his play on the field in 2020 as much as anyone. A tough, gritty player that needs the right offensive mind calling the shots to get his true upside out of him.
My biggest concern in terms of immediate impact. Great in theory but I'm worried about the same kind of stale forced touches we saw with Engram last year going to Toney.
My fear too. I’d much rather read a WR has command of the route tree, has a natural feel for the position, and has perfected the craft.
If you're going to take a WR that needs technique work, I would rather one like this where, in the mean time, he can be like Cole Beasley or Welker and you say, "be open over here" and he wiggles into space with incredible cuts.
This guy and Shep are going to be 1st down machines.
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In comment 15243844 Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy said:
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In comment 15243808 KWALL2 said:
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My interest is in seeing a more watchable, better and interesting team in the future.
Toney will give you what you're looking for.
Let's hope for more on day 2!
Watched a bit of Miami Landry highlights, realized he wasn’t quite who I thought he was. More toughness than quickness, pretty quick still. The hybrid Welker/Landry comp I made earlier still makes sense imo.
Toney is just unique though. Very interested in seeing how he ends up. I still don’t know how I feel about comparing him to true 4.3 speed guys because I just don’t see that speed from him. His quickness and explosiveness is all world though. Rooting for him and I hope the deep crew of offensive coaches get the best out of him.
Osi, thats a great combo....I actually thought he reminded me of Welker at first. But combining Welker's quickness with Landry's toughness and some vert to go with it? Thats a helluva a player!
Like you, I also dont take these pro day 40s seriously, but I dont shave a full .1. I think .05-.07 is generally the margin for error for me. So 4.44 for a guy with quicks like his and jumps 40 is an awfully scary threat.
I remember now. Ahmad Bradshaw was the guy who he reminded me of in terms of cutting, as a WR. Is he worth the 20th pick? Not sure, felt like a slight reach overall but who am I to say. But he is absolutely a one of a kind prospect in this draft. Not a single other player moves like him. Didn’t think Gettleman would go for that in a trade down.
Your take is spot on as far as Im concerned. He is like 10 lbs lighter than Tiki played at. That is a sturdy WR.
Toney Highlights - ( New Window )
A first round pick next year is great regardless though.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
This is not a knock on Toney, but Boylehart seems like a nut to me.
Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
He gets caught from behind too often. He isn’t a pure speed guy. He’s a guy with alien quickness. Super unique player.
He is a threat to take it to the house each time he touches the ball from anywhere on the field, is what I think his description was. He may get caught, but it appears he very much mimics OBJ speed wise. IDK, if he is a faster quicker Sterling Shepard that is pretty good. Guess we will find out.
Judge says he's "very particular" who fits here
Art Stapleton Tweet/Judge on Toney - ( New Window )
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Victor Cruz was 4.5, this guy is faster with apparently the same start and stop moves and sharp cuts....and better hands.
He gets caught from behind too often. He isn’t a pure speed guy. He’s a guy with alien quickness. Super unique player.
He is a threat to take it to the house each time he touches the ball from anywhere on the field, is what I think his description was. He may get caught, but it appears he very much mimics OBJ speed wise. IDK, if he is a faster quicker Sterling Shepard that is pretty good. Guess we will find out.
If there was a race between all the guys in this draft, Toney might not go Top 25 or even lower imo.
If there was a game of dodgeball, he’d go #1 easy. He’s a weirdly quick/explosive athlete.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
I agree with this sentiment, though I'm not entirely sure where his route tree development is. He clearly had a break out year and got better as it went along. He performed well at the senior bowl. Devonta Smith was running pro routes in high school, he's not that and I think most would unanimously prefer that skill. That's why PHI traded up for him and why NYG traded back after he got picked.
Everyone always wants a trade down but when it happens inevitably the player you get is going to have a few more warts.
A first round pick next year is great regardless though.
I wanted everybody. Lol. But I preferred to get the playmaker out of the way. I wasnt wildly wild about Paye, I just felt he was the most feasible EDGE who cpuld learn what he doesnt know. Plus we had a decent pass rush that we manufacturee a pretty good pass rush last year.
I wanted a Guard too, but as was mentioned, there is plenty of those in 2nd and 3rd.
What I really wanted and feel like we got was a guy Ds cant match up with with another great player. I think we got that in Toney.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
This is why I thought they’d go Moore or Bateman. More natural typical WRs. They wanted a little spice though.
It kind of makes me more confident that Garrett will be forced to be more creative, especially since there are about a dozen offensive coaches now behind Kitchens.
God blessed this young man with an abundance of quick twitch muscles and the neural connections to see a football field correctly and play. he seems to play hard. Some one needs to convince him not to waste what God has blessed him with. Sounds easy? it’s not but this is where coaching and teammates come in. It’s no longer an LT league, so need to show/develop some self restraint.
We’ll see if he can be convinced, coerced, bribed, get faith to act responsibly so he can use his talent. Someone told Judge he was a risk worth taking.
I’m very curious and hopeful it works out for Toney and we relish him and the Giants in the near future.
He’s a unique player who, worst comes to worst, might need to be schemed to succeed. Your concern is the “the” concern imo. But his skillset also isn’t the typical skillset of an NFL WR, his lateral cutting is in a different league. If he can learn how to run NFL caliber routes while taking advantage of that skill, we’ll all be drooling over him. Huge if though.
EXCEPT, he's not! And he runs it in for a TD.
Every time I watch this I literally blink my eyes, and I still can't figure out how he did it.
Video: Amazing play at 8 seconds - ( New Window )
Agreed - just saying that he's not like Curtis Samuel who had more rush attempts than receptions in college (and a low ypc). Or Percy Harvin who also had more rushes than receptions. Toney got most of his touches as a receiver and his 14 ypc is perfectly acceptable. Against Bama he did damage all over the field.
The raw tools are there and he was highly productive this past year. He's just not nearly as polished as Devonta Smith. And not quite the vertical player Waddle is. But there are lots of different types of effective WRs.
Ironically from the convo about the 2018 draft earlier today, the most recent draft pick he reminds me of is DJ Moore who similarly plays like a RB with the ball in his hands. Moore was drafted #24 and was thought of as a bit of a late riser into the first round. They timed similarly and have similar stat profiles. I'd sign for that level outcome here and think it's a realistic possibility.
I'm talking about the 2020 NFL version of Samuel and what he brings to a football team. Toney brings the same skills.
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^ I definitely don’t know enough about Toney’s development at the position. I was responding to a post furthering up about him learning on the job, and the team finding ways to get him the ball. I sure hope the way to get him the ball is the normal offense. I hate the thought of having to work around a player’s weaknesses to get to his strengths.
Agreed - just saying that he's not like Curtis Samuel who had more rush attempts than receptions in college (and a low ypc). Or Percy Harvin who also had more rushes than receptions. Toney got most of his touches as a receiver and his 14 ypc is perfectly acceptable. Against Bama he did damage all over the field.
The raw tools are there and he was highly productive this past year. He's just not nearly as polished as Devonta Smith. And not quite the vertical player Waddle is. But there are lots of different types of effective WRs.
Ironically from the convo about the 2018 draft earlier today, the most recent draft pick he reminds me of is DJ Moore who similarly plays like a RB with the ball in his hands. Moore was drafted #24 and was thought of as a bit of a late riser into the first round. They timed similarly and have similar stat profiles. I'd sign for that level outcome here and think it's a realistic possibility.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=IKI6DyhXuaU
Watch the cuts after 2:05 in that video. DJ Moore has never imagined making one of those. Toney did them back-to-back-to-back.
He should be able to step right in and play the slot.
Shep is likely gone after this season. Hopefully Slayton develops into a reliable outside weapon and he, Golladay and Toney are a great group.
It is incredibly important to have weapons this year for Jones. Hopefully the answer to the "is Jones a franchise quarterback" is answered with a yes after the 2021 season, but even if it's a no the most important thing is it's answered one way or the other. This guy should start from day 1 out of the slot and be able to make plays.
If Jones can't show he's a franchise QB this year with the weapons they now have, then they need to look for another QB next off-season
Fair and logical evaluation.
I'm talking about the 2020 NFL version of Samuel and what he brings to a football team. Toney brings the same skills.
Christian was talking about projecting a player from CFB to NFL whose role is uncertain. My point is that Toney isn't a guy who split time at 2 positions, he played WR and this past year he did it very well. They may not need to be "creative" with him for him to be effective (though surely it could be helpful to use any player creatively with motion and alignment). I agree with the comp to the player Curtis Samuel was this past year.
https://www.playerprofiler.com/nfl/kadarius-toney/ - ( New Window )
2 – Jordan Matthews – Vanderbilt – 6’3/212: 85
...
5 – Corey Latimer – Indiana – 6’3/215: 79
6 – Martavis Bryant – Clemson – 6’4/211: 79
7 – Mike Evans – Texas A&M – 6’5/231: 78
...
10 – DaVante Adams – Fresno State – 6’1/212” 75
...
13 – Jarvis Landry – LSU – 6’0/205: 75
...
16 – Allen Robinson – Penn State – 6’3/220: 74
2014 Wide Receivers
I just don’t think there’s a single active player you can compare him to. He’s so one of a kind. Dante Hall for that one year was special as a returner. That’s a legit comparison in terms of movement but Toney was doing it as a WR. His route running and catching skills need to improve no doubt. But he has other skills that could make those route running skills otherworldly.
So I was really rooting for Waddle, and Smith as a fall back.
Toney isn't as fast as Waddle, but faster than Smith. But he isn't as good a route runner as Smith. That said, he has traits, kind of a combo of both receivers. He has good hand size at 9.5" which is something I always look for in receivers.
He is a really explosive athlete. Skinner/Talking Giants has a good breakdown on him.
He creates a LOT of separation. He had a big game vs Alabama, so against the top competition. He's going to create separation in the NFL, and he does it with his speed. He also has really good releases. Lots of broken tackles, his catch percentage as noted, and he gets plenty of downfield balls and wins. Leaps about 40" as noted.
The Giants might not have lost anything in terms of the quality of receiver they got after missing out on Waddle and Smith. He's going to make big plays and is the exact kind of complement I was hoping for across from Golladay.
He knows how to set corners up to get open. This is a TD threat with the ball in his hands. I think when you consider that you're getting a dangerous weapon still at 20, and you got an extra 5th this year, and a 1st and 4th next year, especially given that 1st can be a really high first, I really like it.
There's still a lot of good players on the board for 42, also. Surprising pick but it wouldn't surprise me to see him have huge success in the NFL. He has some OBJ to his game.
This is the kind of player that will command respect for his speed. He will help prevent those loaded boxes.
I think this is a player that's going to really help the Giants offense. And I think Toney can play outside, I really do. I know he was primarily a slot at UF, and surely he'll get reps there with the Giants. You don't have to use a lot of imagination to see what he can bring to this offense, and it was an element of the offense that the Giants were missing.
He had like 3 drops in a 150 targets I think. His hands are good.
More Highlights - ( New Window )
The key is whether he will be that 90-1100-10 slot type guy who moves the chains and EXPLODES for some big plays when teams get lax.
Galloday, Toney, Slayton and Barkley are all Home Run threats. I am wondering now if in the 2nd we don't draft an OL (interior) to compete with both Lemiuex and Hernandez. I believe we will do just that.
Good comp.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
Every player you pick outside the top 5 needs to learn the craft. This isn't realistic. If you want a guy that you pick and don't mess with, then root for top 5 selections.
What tape are you watching? The tape I've seen clearly indicates 4.4 speed, maybe a tic faster. Seriously read any scout write up on him and they highlight his speed.
Also, you can't fake a 40" vert. His leaping ability (top tier) suggests an explosive lower body.
This is the point. Feels very reminiscent of Eli Apple over Laremy Tunsil from a character perspective. Will have to wait and see. Have a feeling Parsons will be a perennial pro bowler and thorn in the Giants side. Toney is another in the long line of reaches. He may turn out to be great but he was properly graded as a second rounder in a very deep WR class because he will be more developmental as a route runner. More of a gadget player with great burst. Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw were much better choices at twenty.
Overall, a net positive day though since the trade was absolutely the right thing to do. Very good chance we will have two top fifteen picks next year...
Also, Judge has said he's particular about who he lets in the building. This gives me confidence that he is a-ok with Toney the personality and character-wise.
I think I'm gonna trust Judge on this one.
His tape shows speed comparable to Shep though he may be better at breaking tackles since he has more wiggle and possibly more burst. The big question though is his ability to get open and attract double coverage. That to me was the real need and why they loved Waddle and Smith since the goal is to try to get single coverage on Golladay. The Giants already have speed - Ross and Slayton are both faster than Toney. If Toney's route running does not become elite, this will have been a bad pick given the opportunity to draft Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw at twenty.
I asked lastnight and not sure anyone answered but I’d like to hear how much Sy dinged him for the character concerns. If it’s 3-4 points than that would otherwise put him right up there in the low 80’s.
I don’t think Sy dislikes the player.
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but others liked him alot more. Seems dynamic. Hopefully he's not a screw up off the field and the talent comes through. I really thought Paye was going to be the pick.
I asked lastnight and not sure anyone answered but I’d like to hear how much Sy dinged him for the character concerns. If it’s 3-4 points than that would otherwise put him right up there in the low 80’s.
I don’t think Sy dislikes the player.
agree, just had him pegged as a 3rd rounder
No offense but.....WTF are you watching? Slow? Looks like he's running a 4.6?
Yikes.
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how Parsons, the best defensive player in this draft, was disqualified, yet and Toney wasn't...
This is the point. Feels very reminiscent of Eli Apple over Laremy Tunsil from a character perspective. Will have to wait and see. Have a feeling Parsons will be a perennial pro bowler and thorn in the Giants side. Toney is another in the long line of reaches. He may turn out to be great but he was properly graded as a second rounder in a very deep WR class because he will be more developmental as a route runner. More of a gadget player with great burst. Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw were much better choices at twenty.
Overall, a net positive day though since the trade was absolutely the right thing to do. Very good chance we will have two top fifteen picks next year...
IIRC, one of our asshats mentioned something about Parsons' psychological profile that was a red flag as well. So it's not just character issues, like he hazed a guy in college. We would be in position to know given our Penn State connections. Toney has no such things in his record or history.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
I’d be more concerned about route running if he wasn’t losing defenders in space consistently. Or was just a vertical guy. This guy just puts DBs in a blender, which is nice.
My hot take is that he has elite quickness but below average speed. He’s a chain mover, which can be very useful. I frankly am not sure I like this pick but it’s likely Toney can help the Giants. I’m interested in seeing how the Giants use him in 3rd down situations. He could be a plus 3rd down back who consistently moves the chains.
Toney 2020 highlights - ( New Window )
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In comment 15243456 bw in dc said:
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how Parsons, the best defensive player in this draft, was disqualified, yet and Toney wasn't...
This is the point. Feels very reminiscent of Eli Apple over Laremy Tunsil from a character perspective. Will have to wait and see. Have a feeling Parsons will be a perennial pro bowler and thorn in the Giants side. Toney is another in the long line of reaches. He may turn out to be great but he was properly graded as a second rounder in a very deep WR class because he will be more developmental as a route runner. More of a gadget player with great burst. Bateman, Paye and Darrisaw were much better choices at twenty.
Overall, a net positive day though since the trade was absolutely the right thing to do. Very good chance we will have two top fifteen picks next year...
IIRC, one of our asshats mentioned something about Parsons' psychological profile that was a red flag as well. So it's not just character issues, like he hazed a guy in college. We would be in position to know given our Penn State connections. Toney has no such things in his record or history.
I appreciate the nuance here, but after the Baker disaster, it would have seemed that Toney was the last guy Mara would have wanted... Time will tell.
For those stating, unequivocally, that he was a 2nd rd prospect...the NY Giants coaching staff, scout team and management disagrees.
Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
Samuel is a physical player. A strong runner. So is Toney. Very similar tools and versatility.
This is a really good addition to this offense. Perfect. An explosive slot guy, jet sweeps, quick screens and can run the plays that stretch the field in every way.
If we had drafted Smith and he wore # 6 would have considered adding to my jersey collection. Meh on Toney until he proves to be more.
He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.
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stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida
He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.
Not to mention the QB's at the Senior Bowl this year were a case study of bad and worse. There is maybe 1 QB from that entire group that will go on Day 2 (Mond) and I am not even sure he threw to Toney.
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Disagree. He's more physical than that. He's much more of slot guy than a speed guy.
Samuel is a physical player. A strong runner. So is Toney. Very similar tools and versatility.
This is a really good addition to this offense. Perfect. An explosive slot guy, jet sweeps, quick screens and can run the plays that stretch the field in every way.
KWALL, from the very limited tape I've seen, Toney is not remotely in Samuel's class as a physical, tough to bring down runner. He would just as soon bull over a CB or S as try to juke him. I don't see Toney that way at all, not as strong or powerful. But, early days, hoping for the best.
I think it was against South Carolina that it seemed like 6 defenders were trying to bring down Toney and could not do it
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In comment 15244491 ryanmkeane said:
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stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida
He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.
Not to mention the QB's at the Senior Bowl this year were a case study of bad and worse. There is maybe 1 QB from that entire group that will go on Day 2 (Mond) and I am not even sure he threw to Toney.
Good point on the QBs
Everyone is a fugazi no name brand compared to the Heisman winner.
That doesn't mean much. And it's not even an apples to apples comparison. One guy was picked at 10, one guy at 20 and the Giants also got an extra first and two mid/late round picks.
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I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.
I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.
I’d be more concerned about route running if he wasn’t losing defenders in space consistently. Or was just a vertical guy. This guy just puts DBs in a blender, which is nice.
I've been watching Toney videos all morning and I just see a lot of Chad Johnson in his game. I think he's a really good weapon to add, and he adds a dimension - even with Golladay - that we didn't have right now, although I'm still surprised that Paye wasn't the pick - that was my expectation as soon as we were on the clock.
Ok, cool. Philly radio also celebrated - literally celebrated - Cruz's injury. Maybe find a good podcast to listen to instead.
That's who he reminds me of, plus he's tough to tackle and d-backs bounce off of him. Got a lot of schoolyard in him.
For those stating, unequivocally, that he was a 2nd rd prospect...the NY Giants coaching staff, scout team and management disagrees.
For those stating the Giants coaching staff, scout team and management are satisfied with the team's performance for the last decade, the so called "no nothing" fans disagree.
He has more in common with Waddle than Smith IMO.
Jalen Reagor (early still) - rd 1
John Hightower - rd 5
Quez Watkins - rd 6
Arcega-Whiteside - rd 2
Mack Hollins - rd 4
Shelton Gibson - rd 5
Nelson Agholor - rd 1
Jordan Matthews - rd 2
Josh Huff - rd 3
Marvin McNutt - rd 6
Riley Cooper - rd 5
Jeremy Maclin - rd 1
Brandon Gibson - rd 6
Not to mention the picks spent on Alshon Jeffery and all the guys they've brought in via FA.
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But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.
That's who he reminds me of, plus he's tough to tackle and d-backs bounce off of him. Got a lot of schoolyard in him.
He's taller and maybe not as fast (straightline speed), but his toughness and quickness sounds a lot like Steve Smith (Caroline version).
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
What Philly radio is actually celebrating is the notion that the Eagles cleverly outmaneuvered the Giants and got a player that will torment the G-Men for ten years. They may be right.
Somebody else noted that Cole Beasley is also a rapper. Players have outside interests, but Toney has put out two or three albums, so you wonder if that might be too much of a distraction. He's also coming to the biggest media market in the country, and his first interview (skinny dipping at midnight?) was somewhat strange.
He's a phenomenal player. It doesn't really matter whether his 4.39 is his true speed. He gets separation with horizontal quickness, and is a very tough competitor. But the understandable desire to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible means that he has run a limited route tree.
This does to some extent look like we were trying to find someone similar to Smith, but Nate Burleson on GMF said Toney was the steal of the first round. He's extremely versatile, and can be used as a RB, WR, and PR. The Giants love versatile players.
I think he's a boom/bust project and therefore would have passed at #20, especially so soon after Baker and given the needs of the team, especially at WR. I would have taken Paye, but I understand why they took Toney.
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Well DG/Abrams were still running things. But you'd think (hope) they'd revisit the Baker decision and try to figure out what went wrong and try to fix those issues.
I wonder if Baker was more studious and attentive in meetings, if they would've at least waited until the trial completed before cutting bait? Instead, it was often reported he didn't understand the schemes and would fall asleep in meetings. Probably wasn't long for the team anyway with work habits like that.
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Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Well DG/Abrams were still running things. But you'd think (hope) they'd revisit the Baker decision and try to figure out what went wrong and try to fix those issues.
I wonder if Baker was more studious and attentive in meetings, if they would've at least waited until the trial completed before cutting bait? Instead, it was often reported he didn't understand the schemes and would fall asleep in meetings. Probably wasn't long for the team anyway with work habits like that.
How did he end up doing last year? Would it have been worth it to hold him?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
His 'advanced' stats in that time were basically comparable to his rookie season though. Targeted 5 times with 3 completions for 26 yards and a TD. QBs had a rating = 113.3, though obviously a small sample. Did add a sack and hurry though.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?
The constant negativity is tiresome.
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Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Assuming the public info in both cases is everything, it's quite possible that Toney showed more remorse or at least convinced them (Judge/Gettleman/etc) that he learned from his mistakes, while Parsons didn't.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
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In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:
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gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.
Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.
Tough to reconcile that...
So, you’re upset they traded down?
Not at all. The red flag issue here is very intriguing to me. I'd love to know what disqualified Parsons...
How the hell do you know Parsons was disqualified?
Sy isn't the only scout. And not everyone had this kid as a second - third rounder. Some actually had him worthy of pick 20. I know this for a fact.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
How do rappers and thugs have anything to do with each other, besides overt racism?
There you have it, DJM.
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Looks like we got him.
I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
I would have preferred if he was a country singer.
I'd prefer that he sang in the style of Greg Lake of ELP or a younger Roger Daltrey. Oh well.
Also - Cole Beasley has a rap career. Gee i wonder why some people don't think that's an issue...
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Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
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Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.
Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.
Flat earth analytics on BBI
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In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:
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Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.
Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.
I was referring to his judgment, not his football IQ, but I agree the phrase was inappropriate, and the last of the incidents was three years ago. His talent is awesome, but I would have nonetheless wanted a cleaner player at #20, especially after the Baker fiasco. Like many others, I would have taken Paye.
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Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?
The constant negativity is tiresome.
You can't just hand wave away a decade of suckage and bad decisions. People will get TF over it when they actually win. As good as the team appears on paper, it's meaningless until it's proven on the field.
As far as the draft pick goes, I don't mind it and the trade down was masterfully done. Even if the pick is a bust getting thw bears #1 is great
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was off the board.
There you have it, DJM.
Oh well. If true, it is what it is. I love Parsons. He's going to be a defensive playmaker in dallas. they don't give a fuck about maniacs.
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Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Not all character questions are identical.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
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Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?
I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
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In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:
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Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.
Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.
What did Toney do in college?
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Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?
The constant negativity is tiresome.
Much like your posts regarding it...
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In comment 15244831 Bill L said:
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Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?
Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.
Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?
I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.
I was just making the point that the best of evaluators can be wrong on character. Time will tell on Parsons v Toney character.
Laremy Tunsil was off the Giants board because of "character" so they took Eli Apple. Big mistake. Huge.
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In comment 15244983 djm said:
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In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:
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Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.
Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.
Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.
Agreed.
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he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
Your commentary is comical, they traded back nine spots for a jack-of- all kinds type of player, sorry if that doesn't excite me.
Steve Smith was bigger than Toney, do your homework.
Toney is faster.
Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?
thanks in advance
Oh well. If true, it is what it is. I love Parsons. He's going to be a defensive playmaker in dallas. they don't give a fuck about maniacs.
That was very funny...
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'.
Link - ( New Window )
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he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'. Link - ( New Window )
According to ESPN.com, that's what I saw.
Either way, he doesn't look very big on film.
Hey, there was some player drafted that was suppose to be
6'2'', and it turns out he is only 6 feet tall.
One is never quite sure, on these things.
Okay, thanks for the info.
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Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.
Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?
thanks in advance
Someone tweeted it out but it's from below.
https://receptionperception.com/kadarius-toney-2021-prospect-profile/
Kadarius Toney #ReceptionPerception...
Good: Broke multiple tackles on a class-high 19.6% of his “in space” attempts.
Bad: 13th percentile in success rate vs. man coverage and the 1st percentile against press
So you put him in motion until he learns how to get off the jam.
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In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:
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he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
Those aren't Toney's measurements. He's 6'. Link - ( New Window )
.
According to ESPN.com, that's what I saw.
Either way, he doesn't look very big on film.
Hey, there was some player drafted that was suppose to be
6'2'', and it turns out he is only 6 feet tall.
One is never quite sure, on these things.
I think we can be pretty sure that a guy who NFL.com lists as 6' isn't shorter than 5'9", as you posit.
This is what presnap motion is for. It's on Garrett to make this work. He's an in space player. You have to scheme ways to get him the ball. RPOs, sweeps, creative formations, screens.
Slippery is a good term he reminds me of Ike Hilliard but stronger. Folks are saying his catch rate is iffy but the numbers trend correctly. Now the talk of him having issues with contested catches looks to stem from body catching that can be coached up ... So hopefully Judge is right about him being unpolished and coachable (alluded to all college players are unfinished which is true) and the catch rate continues to trend upward.
Catch Stats - ( New Window )
Quote:
Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.
Interesting stat. Can you provide this for all the top WR prospects or give the link?
thanks in advance
Is it? If you line him up outside on line, you are using him wrong. We are really going to find out if Garrett is philosophically opposed to motion because Toney should be moving all over the place pre snap.
bw is worse. Terps didnt show up on the draft thread pushing his agenda....bm in dc did. That convinced me is just a fucking asshole and probably has no friends.
Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?
Yes. Yes, he does.
The trade down was really good though. I think the Giants have two top 10-ish picks next year. Time to study up on the 2022 QBs.
My prediction is that Shough, the QB who took Herbert's place at Oregon and then transferred to Texas Tech, is going to have a massive year. Then, if we draft him, we'll be subjected to terrible headlines like "The Shough Must Go On."
Bad: 13th percentile in success rate vs. man coverage and the 1st percentile against press
How is "success rate" measured here? Is it, downs that resulted in him personally catching the ball? Or, downs in which he, I don't know, fell on his ass while trying to free himself from press?
Because if it's the former, maybe they just tended to throw the ball to their mutant TE in almost all of those situations.