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NYG 2021 1st-Round Pick: WR Kadarius Toney

Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/29/2021 10:45 pm
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RE: RE: RE: Not sure where the “hands”  
KDavies : 4/30/2021 9:38 am : link
In comment 15244592 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15244541 KDavies said:


Quote:


In comment 15244491 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


stuff is coming from...he seems to have good hands. Maybe not great, but does not seem to be an issue based on what I’m seeing. He had 3 drops in 150 targets at Florida



He dropped some at the Senior Bowl. I agree, I don't see his hands as a huge issue. One of the things that really stood out about him at the Senior Bowl though was the amount of separation he was getting vs. other WRs. That is an area the Giants have sorely been lacking in.



Not to mention the QB's at the Senior Bowl this year were a case study of bad and worse. There is maybe 1 QB from that entire group that will go on Day 2 (Mond) and I am not even sure he threw to Toney.


Good point on the QBs
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this  
Jon in NYC : 4/30/2021 9:41 am : link
In comment 15244610 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
They are saying Toney is the fugazi no name brand compared to their pick


Everyone is a fugazi no name brand compared to the Heisman winner.

That doesn't mean much. And it's not even an apples to apples comparison. One guy was picked at 10, one guy at 20 and the Giants also got an extra first and two mid/late round picks.
I'm  
Jon in NYC : 4/30/2021 9:43 am : link
mostly curious about his ability to win outside. 6', 200lbs, 40 inch vert, above average hand size. He averaged 14 yards per catch so this isn't just some 5 yard dump and hope for some YAC guy. He makes down the field catches.
it dawned on me who he reminds me of most - Randall Cobb  
Eric on Li : 4/30/2021 9:51 am : link
same size, both played tough with the ball in their hands, wildcat QB experience, projected to be explosive slot players who take the occasional handoff. Toney tested way better than Cobb did and looks to have a little more elusiveness but Cobb obviously had some legitimate play speed and really big years as Rodgers' #1. Also returned kicks early in his career.
RE: RE: ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 10:04 am : link
In comment 15244349 Jerry's Kids said:
Quote:
In comment 15243921 christian said:


Quote:


I’d rather the Giants draft a WR who doesn’t need technique help.

I just personally don’t like the philosophy of scheming around things. I prefer guys who don’t need to learn the craft at the NFL level.



I’d be more concerned about route running if he wasn’t losing defenders in space consistently. Or was just a vertical guy. This guy just puts DBs in a blender, which is nice.

I've been watching Toney videos all morning and I just see a lot of Chad Johnson in his game. I think he's a really good weapon to add, and he adds a dimension - even with Golladay - that we didn't have right now, although I'm still surprised that Paye wasn't the pick - that was my expectation as soon as we were on the clock.
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 10:07 am : link
In comment 15244610 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
They are saying Toney is the fugazi no name brand compared to their pick

Ok, cool. Philly radio also celebrated - literally celebrated - Cruz's injury. Maybe find a good podcast to listen to instead.
RE: This might sound a little crazy  
JonC : 4/30/2021 10:10 am : link
In comment 15244135 allstarjim said:
Quote:
But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.


That's who he reminds me of, plus he's tough to tackle and d-backs bounce off of him. Got a lot of schoolyard in him.
RE: The kid is...  
The Mike : 4/30/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15244375 Brown_Hornet said:
Quote:
...hard to tackle and has a huge catch radius. He really tracks the ball well.

For those stating, unequivocally, that he was a 2nd rd prospect...the NY Giants coaching staff, scout team and management disagrees.


For those stating the Giants coaching staff, scout team and management are satisfied with the team's performance for the last decade, the so called "no nothing" fans disagree.
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this  
Ten Ton Hammer : 4/30/2021 10:14 am : link
In comment 15244610 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
They are saying Toney is the fugazi no name brand compared to their pick


He has more in common with Waddle than Smith IMO.

I like Smith  
giants#1 : 4/30/2021 10:16 am : link
but maybe Philly should hit on a WR before celebrating. WRs drafted since Desean Jackson (including 4 in the previous 2 drafts):

Jalen Reagor (early still) - rd 1
John Hightower - rd 5
Quez Watkins - rd 6
Arcega-Whiteside - rd 2
Mack Hollins - rd 4
Shelton Gibson - rd 5
Nelson Agholor - rd 1
Jordan Matthews - rd 2
Josh Huff - rd 3
Marvin McNutt - rd 6
Riley Cooper - rd 5
Jeremy Maclin - rd 1
Brandon Gibson - rd 6

Not to mention the picks spent on Alshon Jeffery and all the guys they've brought in via FA.
RE: RE: This might sound a little crazy  
giants#1 : 4/30/2021 10:18 am : link
In comment 15244771 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15244135 allstarjim said:


Quote:


But the comp I'd put on him, given his cuts, jukes, agility, and return ability...is Antonio Brown. But Toney has more going for him physically and athletically than Brown did coming out.



That's who he reminds me of, plus he's tough to tackle and d-backs bounce off of him. Got a lot of schoolyard in him.


He's taller and maybe not as fast (straightline speed), but his toughness and quickness sounds a lot like Steve Smith (Caroline version).
Wonder what Tyke Tolbert  
Simms11 : 4/30/2021 10:23 am : link
thinks about this pick? I suppose he had an opinion.
This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
Bill L : 4/30/2021 10:26 am : link
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.
RE: Philly radio is having a field day with all this  
GeofromNJ : 4/30/2021 10:26 am : link
In comment 15244610 MartyNJ1969 said:
Quote:
They are saying Toney is the fugazi no name brand compared to their pick

What Philly radio is actually celebrating is the notion that the Eagles cleverly outmaneuvered the Giants and got a player that will torment the G-Men for ten years. They may be right.
I'm  
AcidTest : 4/30/2021 10:34 am : link
still concerned about his prior legal problems, but as others have noted, the last of them was in 2018, and they were never that major. Judge and the staff vetted him back to high school.

Somebody else noted that Cole Beasley is also a rapper. Players have outside interests, but Toney has put out two or three albums, so you wonder if that might be too much of a distraction. He's also coming to the biggest media market in the country, and his first interview (skinny dipping at midnight?) was somewhat strange.

He's a phenomenal player. It doesn't really matter whether his 4.39 is his true speed. He gets separation with horizontal quickness, and is a very tough competitor. But the understandable desire to get the ball in his hands as quickly as possible means that he has run a limited route tree.

This does to some extent look like we were trying to find someone similar to Smith, but Nate Burleson on GMF said Toney was the steal of the first round. He's extremely versatile, and can be used as a RB, WR, and PR. The Giants love versatile players.

I think he's a boom/bust project and therefore would have passed at #20, especially so soon after Baker and given the needs of the team, especially at WR. I would have taken Paye, but I understand why they took Toney.
RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
giants#1 : 4/30/2021 10:36 am : link
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:
Quote:
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.


Well DG/Abrams were still running things. But you'd think (hope) they'd revisit the Baker decision and try to figure out what went wrong and try to fix those issues.

I wonder if Baker was more studious and attentive in meetings, if they would've at least waited until the trial completed before cutting bait? Instead, it was often reported he didn't understand the schemes and would fall asleep in meetings. Probably wasn't long for the team anyway with work habits like that.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
Bill L : 4/30/2021 10:37 am : link
In comment 15244862 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


Quote:


Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Well DG/Abrams were still running things. But you'd think (hope) they'd revisit the Baker decision and try to figure out what went wrong and try to fix those issues.

I wonder if Baker was more studious and attentive in meetings, if they would've at least waited until the trial completed before cutting bait? Instead, it was often reported he didn't understand the schemes and would fall asleep in meetings. Probably wasn't long for the team anyway with work habits like that.


How did he end up doing last year? Would it have been worth it to hold him?
RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
The Mike : 4/30/2021 10:39 am : link
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:
Quote:
Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.


Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.
The biggest attribute for me  
JFIB : 4/30/2021 10:40 am : link
Is his ability to gain separation from coverage before the pass. All We have seen the past few years is our QB having to throw to guys that are blanketed by a defender. This kid has the ability to make separation. He also catches with his hands not his body and looks to be a great asset to the Offense moving forward.
played in 2 games (started week 17)  
giants#1 : 4/30/2021 10:43 am : link
45 defensive snaps total and 11 ST snaps. So basically a lost season.

His 'advanced' stats in that time were basically comparable to his rookie season though. Targeted 5 times with 3 completions for 26 yards and a TD. QBs had a rating = 113.3, though obviously a small sample. Did add a sack and hurry though.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
Dr. D : 4/30/2021 10:44 am : link
In comment 15243650 Thegratefulhead said:
Quote:

Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?

We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?

The constant negativity is tiresome.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
giants#1 : 4/30/2021 10:46 am : link
In comment 15244877 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


Quote:


Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.


Assuming the public info in both cases is everything, it's quite possible that Toney showed more remorse or at least convinced them (Judge/Gettleman/etc) that he learned from his mistakes, while Parsons didn't.
RE: You guys wanted another Plaxico ...  
Big Al : 4/30/2021 10:53 am : link
In comment 15243392 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Looks like we got him.

I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.
I would have preferred if he was a country singer.
RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:00 am : link
In comment 15243541 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15243522 Sean said:


Quote:


In comment 15243515 bw in dc said:


Quote:


gave Toney a grade of 77, third round.

Parsons was an 84, a firster just below Pro Bowl level.

Tough to reconcile that...


So, you’re upset they traded down?



Not at all. The red flag issue here is very intriguing to me. I'd love to know what disqualified Parsons...


How the hell do you know Parsons was disqualified?

Sy isn't the only scout. And not everyone had this kid as a second - third rounder. Some actually had him worthy of pick 20. I know this for a fact.
Parsons  
JonC : 4/30/2021 11:01 am : link
was off the board.
The inconsistent hands  
tyrik13 : 4/30/2021 11:01 am : link
Thing isn’t right. Out of 150 catches he dropped 3 passes his whole career there. Only reason people saying his hands are inconsistent is because he dropped some passes at the senior bowl during practice. He actually has very good hands
RE: With  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:03 am : link
In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:
Quote:
Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.


Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?
RE: You guys wanted another Plaxico ...  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15243392 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Looks like we got him.

I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.

How do rappers and thugs have anything to do with each other, besides overt racism?
RE: Parsons  
Gatorade Dunk : 4/30/2021 11:06 am : link
In comment 15244972 JonC said:
Quote:
was off the board.

There you have it, DJM.
RE: RE: You guys wanted another Plaxico ...  
Dr. D : 4/30/2021 11:15 am : link
In comment 15244928 Big Al said:
Quote:
In comment 15243392 Spider56 said:


Quote:


Looks like we got him.

I’m very disappointed right now ... last thing I want to see on my beloved team is a rapper thug. Sounds like he’s the exact opposite of Devonta Smith. Time will tell.

I would have preferred if he was a country singer.

I'd prefer that he sang in the style of Greg Lake of ELP or a younger Roger Daltrey. Oh well.
lol  
ryanmkeane : 4/30/2021 11:18 am : link
"thug rapper" - he literally said in the FIRST interview that it's just a hobby thing.

Also - Cole Beasley has a rap career. Gee i wonder why some people don't think that's an issue...
anyone have any info on his other career  
Dave : 4/30/2021 11:18 am : link
as a rapper, Joka?
I also like the idea  
JFIB : 4/30/2021 11:18 am : link
Of putting him in the backfield with Saquan. Flanking DJ and faking the screen to one and then throwing it to the other.
RE: RE: With  
AcidTest : 4/30/2021 11:20 am : link
In comment 15244983 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?


I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.
RE: RE: With  
10thAve : 4/30/2021 11:21 am : link
In comment 15244983 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?

“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.

Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.
Toney came back to graduate  
ryanmkeane : 4/30/2021 11:25 am : link
and play his senior season...and then dominated
This has been a very enjoyable off-season so far. Let's see what  
Ira : 4/30/2021 11:27 am : link
the Giants have in store for us tonight and tomorrow.
Besides being a rapper  
Big Al : 4/30/2021 11:31 am : link
he puts ketchup on his hot dogs. That should have put him off our list.
4.39  
bc4life : 4/30/2021 11:36 am : link
is not fast.

Flat earth analytics on BBI
AcidTest  
MojoEd : 4/30/2021 11:43 am : link
Interesting point is that the 2018 events weren’t “legal problems”; judgement problems yes, but it doesn’t look like he broke any laws.
RE: RE: RE: With  
AcidTest : 4/30/2021 11:44 am : link
In comment 15245068 10thAve said:
Quote:
In comment 15244983 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?


“Ten cent head” is the easy copout excuse. Just like calling him a thug because he’s also a rapper.

Any research on Toney shows multiple sources saying he has a high football IQ, like this and this and this and last one.


I was referring to his judgment, not his football IQ, but I agree the phrase was inappropriate, and the last of the incidents was three years ago. His talent is awesome, but I would have nonetheless wanted a cleaner player at #20, especially after the Baker fiasco. Like many others, I would have taken Paye.
Toney  
GF1080 : 4/30/2021 11:45 am : link
Was in the 1st percentile against press coverage for all college WRs. That is a MAJOR problem.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: So Sy...  
Scooter185 : 4/30/2021 11:50 am : link
In comment 15244902 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15243650 Thegratefulhead said:


Quote:



Not cool. All of those add to the character of discussions. Do you really want an echo chamber where we blow each othet?


We don't need an echo chamber where we all blow each other, but some posters seem to be incessantly negative about everything the Giants do. Yeah yeah, I know the Giants sucked for about 10 years, but can we get TF over it? And maybe recognize we're finally going in the right direction and see how they do in '21 and beyond?

The constant negativity is tiresome.


You can't just hand wave away a decade of suckage and bad decisions. People will get TF over it when they actually win. As good as the team appears on paper, it's meaningless until it's proven on the field.

As far as the draft pick goes, I don't mind it and the trade down was masterfully done. Even if the pick is a bust getting thw bears #1 is great
Is it me or does the Toney pick feel like a pick of need vs  
Dinger : 4/30/2021 11:51 am : link
BPA? I mean it seems like we were ready to take Smith, got jumped, then were able to trade back and get a WR. So were we looking to focus on a position of perceived need, ie WR, and not so much worried about BPA? I don't know what player at 11 I would have been happy with. I thought Paye but he wound up going 21st!, maybe Parsons, maybe Farley or AVT. But at 20, I EXPECTED, Paye or OL or another EDGE. I feel like there will be more WR available day 2. Just hope they are right with KT.
RE: RE: Parsons  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:52 am : link
In comment 15244991 Gatorade Dunk said:
Quote:
In comment 15244972 JonC said:


Quote:


was off the board.


There you have it, DJM.


Oh well. If true, it is what it is. I love Parsons. He's going to be a defensive playmaker in dallas. they don't give a fuck about maniacs.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
Bill L : 4/30/2021 11:53 am : link
In comment 15244877 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


Quote:


Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.

Not all character questions are identical.
I find it hard to believe  
Carson53 : 4/30/2021 11:54 am : link
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.
RE: RE: This guys is all over the place on analysts' boards  
Bill L : 4/30/2021 11:55 am : link
In comment 15244877 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15244831 Bill L said:


Quote:


Several have him as the number 4 WR in the draft. I wonder, for those people downgrading him or projecting him into the 2nd or 3rd round, is that based purely on talent or do the red flags factor into that?

Also, for those saying that Mara should have shied away because of Deandre Baker, wasn't the HC vetting Baker, Shurmer? I would bet that Judge and SHurmer are quite different in their character evaluation and tolerance characteristics.



Joe Judge not only coached Aaron Hernandez, he was his next door neighbor. Where was it again that Hernandez went to college??? Shurmur may have been a terrible coach, but blaming Baker on him is misguided. If the Giants shied away from Micah Parsons on the basis of character, this pick of Toney seems like a complete contradiction.

Let's hope that Parsons turns out to be a mistake for the Cowboys and Toney makes the Giants look like geniuses. The alternative is too painful to contemplate.


Also, why are you asking about Hernandez's college? Why is it relevant?

I'm only asking because he went to my high school so, by extension, I might have to ask someone to check out my red flags.
RE: I find it hard to believe  
jvm52106 : 4/30/2021 11:56 am : link
In comment 15245198 Carson53 said:
Quote:
he is 5'9" 5/8, AND 193 lbs. He looks smaller on film.
I can't say I am that excited moving back nine spots,
for this type of player, hey maybe he can return kicks.
They certainly could use a kickoff returner.
DG needs to nail it on Day 2, I believe.


Steve Smith was shorter too.. This idea that one pick is sure fire better than another, without a down of real football played, is quite comical.
RE: RE: RE: With  
djm : 4/30/2021 11:57 am : link
In comment 15245064 AcidTest said:
Quote:
In comment 15244983 djm said:


Quote:


In comment 15243658 AcidTest said:


Quote:


Toney you just wonder if he's a million dollar talent with a ten cent head.



Where are you getting this shit from? You really don't know WTF you're talking about. Ten cent head? You know this how?



I agree. That was unwarranted. I apologize.


all good I came at you pretty hard when I didn't need to. Just don't believe everything you hear about this kid. Let's give him a chance here first. These kids grow up in shit it's no wonder they aren't living that lifestyle. Giants are a well insulated locker room. He likely isn't a problem at all.

Then you have the guy who comes in squeaky clean and turns out to be out of his friggin mind. These so called attitude labels with so many young players always seem to be inconsistent, unpredictable and at times, unfair.
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