I look at highlights of that guy and my first thought -- that guy is playing basketball on grass.
I privately suspect the mantra in the current regime is "pass, stop the pass, rush the passer."
The emphasis this offseason seems so focused on creating and stopping plays in the passing game. I expect the Giants will go corner in round two.
I loved the Gilbride/Reese era, these are happy times for me.
That feels accurate.
I posted it on the Toney thread but it dawned on me the guy he most reminds me of is Randall Cobb. Toney tested a lot better but obviously Cobb was a super tough and super talented player at the same size. Both had the ball in their hands often and in a variety of ways against SEC defenses.
LMAO
He's definitely a role player as I see it.
The thing with Reese is that he would have our whole receiving core looking like this guy, instead of just being a compliment. And that's not a knock on Reese, that's just how he built the receiving core near the end. A bunch of sub six footers that were fast.
Ha ha ha!
With these moves by DG, I feel like we have the talent to be top 10.
Yes, that the current regime seems more intent on putting together a pass-focused team, with an emphasis on offensive play makers with elite athleticism.
The Reese/Coughlin/Gilbride glory years excelled at that.
I look at the developments of this team this offseason and I really hear Ross's infamous quote in my head.
Yup.
Quote:
Reese wouldn’t have traded down and he would have taken Oweh at 11.
Yup.
I am not talking about the sequence of events, I am talking about the type of player being targeted.
1. Control the LOS
2. Defend the pass
3. Manufacture a pass rush
Controlling the LOS isn't just about stopping the (traditional) run anymore. It's also about maintaining gap control and keeping mobile QBs in the pocket where they're less dangerous. If you've got big guys like Lawrence and Williams that can control multiple gaps and take on multiple OL, that frees up the LBs to take away more of the short/underneath stuff too.
And a lot of the mobile QBs are better outside the pocket, whether it's taking off and running or simply buying time for their WRs to get open for a big play. Best way to beat them is to take away the quick throws with good press CBs (Bradberry, hopefully AJ) and LB/S play in the middle of the field. Then get pressure up the gut with the edges contained.
Don't forget a little someone named Saquon too. Our running game could be lethal.
It sure feels like to me he's focusing on building a talent rich secondary -- adding Jackson, Bradberry, Ryan, McKinney, and Holmes.
And upgrading the talent in the passing game adding Galloday, Toney, and Rudolph.
Quote:
and look at the highlights of the NFL Network segment on Toney before the draft, it makes a lot of sense. Toney is going to be a real weapon on the jet sweep, and the option for Jones to keep it is going to be a real thing that has to be accounted for.
Don't forget a little someone named Saquon too. Our running game could be lethal.
Agreed, this really could be about the running game as much as the passing game, as Engram and Sheppard were running sweeps out of the slot last year.
Agreed, this really could be about the running game as much as the passing game, as Engram and Sheppard were running sweeps out of the slot last year.
You think Toney will get as many rush attempts as pass targets?
Quote:
Then Toney is the pick at #11 and the Giants don't trade down b/c they are worried about losing their player.
That feels accurate.
Neither Reese nor Gettleman had ever traded down prior to last night. That's an organizational philosophy, not a GM tendency. Judge appears to be the key variable, IMO.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's fair to make that claim about Reese when we could just as easily have made that exact same claim about Gettleman, pre-Judge.
Quote:
Agreed, this really could be about the running game as much as the passing game, as Engram and Sheppard were running sweeps out of the slot last year.
You think Toney will get as many rush attempts as pass targets?
No, but I don't think he was drafted to be soley a WR, number one, and number two, there are a lot of guys in the passing game to throw the ball to.
He can bring real value to the jet sweeps and reverses, as that's an area where he really shined in college.
Toney appears dangerous with the ball in his hands however it got there. My point is he's not a trench player.
Quote:
In comment 15244694 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
Then Toney is the pick at #11 and the Giants don't trade down b/c they are worried about losing their player.
That feels accurate.
Neither Reese nor Gettleman had ever traded down prior to last night. That's an organizational philosophy, not a GM tendency. Judge appears to be the key variable, IMO.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's fair to make that claim about Reese when we could just as easily have made that exact same claim about Gettleman, pre-Judge.
That's fair except Gettleman actually did it. I don't think Joe Judge handles trades and such, I think that was Abrahams and Gettleman. I'm sure Joe Judge has a big say in the player is picked but not so sure he would have much say in draft capital and fair values. That's not in his wheelhouse but who really knows?
No, but I don't think he was drafted to be soley a WR, number one, and number two, there are a lot of guys in the passing game to throw the ball to.
He can bring real value to the jet sweeps and reverses, as that's an area where he really shined in college.
I agree there. I wouldn't categorize the move as being as much about the run game.
But I do think he get 30+ rush attempts, and hopefully he's the primary target on the designed dump offs.
Think of the options in the run game with Saquon back there, Toney coming out of the slot, and Jones as a threat to keep it.... Who's getting the ball? All three are a threat to take it to the house.
Slayton is a vertical downfield speed receiver.
Engram is a vertical TE who is at his best working downfield.
Even John Ross is more of a vertical threat (if he gets an reps).
In the same way Kyle Rudolph balances out Engram with a steady, reliable target in the middle of the field, Toney adds a horizontal weapon who can run routes the other receivers on the roster don't excel at. He can win with short passes at the LOS and short routes over the middle of the field that go a long way.
Of players already on the roster he is most similar to Shepard, which was a need because Shepard gets hurt a lot. Devonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle would have been able to similarly fill that need which is why so many were very high on adding them at 11. Toney @ 20 with the extra picks from the Bears seems like a real good gamble (especially considering the former 2 were already off the board).
No need to be a dick.
That's not what Gettleman said last night. He said he fielded the call and let Abrams negotiate it.
Slayton is a vertical downfield speed receiver.
Engram is a vertical TE who is at his best working downfield.
Even John Ross is more of a vertical threat (if he gets an reps).
In the same way Kyle Rudolph balances out Engram with a steady, reliable target in the middle of the field, Toney adds a horizontal weapon who can run routes the other receivers on the roster don't excel at. He can win with short passes at the LOS and short routes over the middle of the field that go a long way.
Of players already on the roster he is most similar to Shepard, which was a need because Shepard gets hurt a lot. Devonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle would have been able to similarly fill that need which is why so many were very high on adding them at 11. Toney @ 20 with the extra picks from the Bears seems like a real good gamble (especially considering the former 2 were already off the board).
Exactly. Excellent post. Toney compliments this roster very well.
Quote:
Boxes himself in in regards to any mantra. He is going to want to be able to attack multiple weaknesses which change with each opponent.
It sure feels like to me he's focusing on building a talent rich secondary -- adding Jackson, Bradberry, Ryan, McKinney, and Holmes.
And upgrading the talent in the passing game adding Galloday, Toney, and Rudolph.
The giants needed a lot of talent pretty much everywhere.
It is a passing league, but you try to allow yourself to attack and defend in multiple ways. Judge said offensively that some games would be geared towards attacking with the pass,while some would be geared towards the run game. Belichick is known for not being hard coded in the way he attacks or defends. Judge sounds like he agrees with that approach and rightfully so imv.
If we want to compare to Reese, do we want to compare a statement he once made or the many failures to build an OL? or the DT overdrafts or staying with Eli without getting an option as he aged ?
Quote:
deal than Judge...
No need to be a dick.
That's not what Gettleman said last night. He said he fielded the call and let Abrams negotiate it.
Apologies, I really meant the deal to pick Toney.
If we want to compare to Reese, do we want to compare a statement he once made or the many failures to build an OL? or the DT overdrafts or staying with Eli without getting an option as he aged ?
What would those topics have to do with Toney?
Quote:
In comment 15244698 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15244694 RCPhoenix said:
Quote:
Then Toney is the pick at #11 and the Giants don't trade down b/c they are worried about losing their player.
That feels accurate.
Neither Reese nor Gettleman had ever traded down prior to last night. That's an organizational philosophy, not a GM tendency. Judge appears to be the key variable, IMO.
I'm just saying, I don't think it's fair to make that claim about Reese when we could just as easily have made that exact same claim about Gettleman, pre-Judge.
That's fair except Gettleman actually did it. I don't think Joe Judge handles trades and such, I think that was Abrahams and Gettleman. I'm sure Joe Judge has a big say in the player is picked but not so sure he would have much say in draft capital and fair values. That's not in his wheelhouse but who really knows?
Ok, I'll revise it - Judge + O'Brien.
The direction of the front office has clearly changed this offseason. I personally believe that they're the reason why.
Bottom line, Gettleman is a large part of the equation. It's not fair to dismiss him and heap all of the credit on Judge.
That was a hell of a trade in a tough spot and excellent value.
Even if the Bears go 11-5 we still got good value. I don't think win that many games in 2021.
Reese gets full credit from me for his role in those two championships. I tend to separate Reese into two different eras.
Bottom line, Gettleman is a large part of the equation. It's not fair to dismiss him and heap all of the credit on Judge.
That was a hell of a trade in a tough spot and excellent value.
I think DG is largely a figurehead at this point. The fact that he delegated as large a decision as a first round trade to Abrams tells me that he's in a supervisory role now, but no longer in the weeds the way that he was previously. I think his role is much more similar to what TC's was with Jacksonville, though his title isn't the same.
There's a reason why the Giants brought in O'Brien - he's Judge's front office mate. And there's also a reason why the Giants have trotted out Pettit and Abrams alongside Gettleman at every turn this offseason. DG is overseeing a lot of strong executives, but he's no longer the guy who is doing the moving and shaking, IMO. He's now just the intermediary between his lieutenants and ownership, and this setup is working very well.
On that, we agree.
I just like to dissect the front office. It's part of the fun in being a fan for me.
I respect that you see it, but I dont.
Far from even a minor point or comment on my part. I withdraw from draining any further energy on it .
Quote: Golliday is a vertical downfield physical receiver.
Slayton is a vertical downfield speed receiver.
Engram is a vertical TE who is at his best working downfield.
Even John Ross is more of a vertical threat (if he gets an reps).
In the same way Kyle Rudolph balances out Engram with a steady, reliable target in the middle of the field, Toney adds a horizontal weapon who can run routes the other receivers on the roster don't excel at. He can win with short passes at the LOS and short routes over the middle of the field that go a long way.
Of players already on the roster he is most similar to Shepard, which was a need because Shepard gets hurt a lot. Devonta Smith and Jaylen Waddle would have been able to similarly fill that need which is why so many were very high on adding them at 11. Toney @ 20 with the extra picks from the Bears seems like a real good gamble (especially considering the former 2 were already off the board)./////
Exactly. Excellent post. Toney compliments this roster very well.
Drafting OL is boring, but it helps the whole offense. If Jones has two seconds to throw, he won't play much better than his first two seasons, or Manning's last two seasons.
I know we think that the OL has turned the corner, but we can't say that with a lot of confidence.
Who even remembers the wide receivers on Parcells' winning teams?
Stacey Robinson
Mark Ingram
Stephen Baker
Bobby Brown?
Violently agree
Drafting OL is boring, but it helps the whole offense. If Jones has two seconds to throw, he won't play much better than his first two seasons, or Manning's last two seasons.
I know we think that the OL has turned the corner, but we can't say that with a lot of confidence.
Who even remembers the wide receivers on Parcells' winning teams?
Stacey Robinson
Mark Ingram
Stephen Baker
Bobby Brown?
I guess if you're going to ignore Lionel Manuel and Phil McConkey, you might have a point, although given the fact that you forgot both of them, I'll just assume that maybe the problem is that you didn't know those teams very well?
You missed the memo. If not for Reese we would've won 4-5 rings with Eli.
Me too. I'm an unapologetic Reese nostalgist.
I want a team with a 5K passer and WRs streaking all over.