By going forward with a trade with Philly, it is clear that Dallas would rather have Philly with Smith than the Giants. I look that as a shift in the way we have been viewed by our rivals in the past several years.
And at the end of the day, for only getting an extra 3rd rounder, Dallas has to contend with Smith and Toney as 1st rounders while missing out on a top CB.
It's clearly too early to tell, but at face value, that trade looks like it backfired on them as well as leading to a very good deal we pivoted to with the Bears.
By the way, I heard today that carolina was trying to trade with the Bears, but Chicago pulled out of the talks because they felt confident they could get fields in a deal with a different team (which turned out to be us)
I agree with this take; I think the OP is overthinking it.
Would Dallas rather have a 3rd rd pick with Smith in the division? Or Smith in the division without a 3rd rd. pick?
My sentiments exactly.
The Giants were irrelevant in that decision.
Now, are they a little pissed the Bears didn’t call them? Probably.
This also puts the Eagles in a bad position because they weren’t able to get their second corner either and they lost Jalen Mills in free agency. Instead of Philly drafting some guards, to replenish the OL they have to hope a starting caliber CB falls to them. Big ramifications
Thrilling!
That's irrelevant. I'm guessing they preferred those 2, but they were gone. I'm sure if they didn't take the Philly deal, they were still taking Parsons at 10.
I'm still smiling on that one
Not only do I completely agree with this, but I also think that the fact that Billy is in pretty much full rebuild mode and that's it would be pretty much Irrelevant for the next two years played into the decision making
This also puts the Eagles in a bad position because they weren’t able to get their second corner either and they lost Jalen Mills in free agency. Instead of Philly drafting some guards, to replenish the OL they have to hope a starting caliber CB falls to them. Big ramifications
Their secondary was awful last year. They were likely picking multiple of DBs anyway.
But suggesting Cowboys got hurt by a trade that brought them the best defensive player in the draft, whom they would have taken with the tenth pick anyway, and additionally getting a third round pick taken away from an arch rival, is a stretch too far.
If Parsons turns out to be a perennial pro bowler terrorizing the Giants and leading the Cowboys to a super bowl, posterity will not be kind to either the Eagles or the Giants.
There is some overthinking but Philly could just have easily been trading up to get a QB of the future and not Smith and then Dallas would have had to face both. Even if Dallas was told by Philly it was for Smith that means Dallas would rather face Smith on Philly than the Giants because a 3 means nothing if you are making your schedule more difficult for at least next 5-6 years.
The weird thing is that the Eagles are atrocious at LB. Why wouldn't they draft Parsons at 10?
And the Eagles drafted Reagor in the 1st last year. Is this an admission that drafting Reagor was a mistake?
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I was thinking along the same lines last night. Not only does Dallas not have a corner who can guard Golladay, they don’t have a legit slot corner either. Now they’re gonna make a big push to cluster draft corners and safeties because they have to find a way to defend the new receiver talent in the nfc East ( Samuel, Devonta, Golladay, Toney).
This also puts the Eagles in a bad position because they weren’t able to get their second corner either and they lost Jalen Mills in free agency. Instead of Philly drafting some guards, to replenish the OL they have to hope a starting caliber CB falls to them. Big ramifications
Their secondary was awful last year. They were likely picking multiple of DBs anyway.
I’m pretty sure Dallas was penciling in the idea of having Surtain or Horn, putting Trevon Diggs to CB2. Very few foresaw Carolina taking Horn. IMO that was the biggest domino of the night
My gut tells me this isn't true, but my heart hopes its true!
But you're right that they obviously didn't have much concern about the Eagles adding Smith. I'm not sure whether that's a reflection on the Eagles or on Smith, but it wasn't something they had much interest in guarding against, especially because I presume the Bears' offer would also have been available to them at 10, so they could have jumped out of that pick without helping a rival.
It would've worked, too, if not for the Bears. Gettleman and Abrams deserve a massive amount of credit for taking a questionable situation for us and turning it into a free first round draft pick next year.
What Dallas did was the same thing the Giants did. Basically told the other team "Yeah, we'll trade, but only if our guy is gone". That assumes we'd draft Smith of course.
But you're right that they obviously didn't have much concern about the Eagles adding Smith. I'm not sure whether that's a reflection on the Eagles or on Smith, but it wasn't something they had much interest in guarding against, especially because I presume the Bears' offer would also have been available to them at 10, so they could have jumped out of that pick without helping a rival.
Either the Bears didn't make them the same offer, or the guy Dallas really wanted was Parsons all along, and the Eagles offering them a free third round pick to get him anyway was worth it to them.
The trade we made would have potentially given them a FOURTH 1st round pick for next year. That would be tough to stomach.
Now they draft Smith.....and Let's hope Toney becomes the HOF WR out of this draft!
Plus, I don't care what others did it is what we did. We did a great job, got a weapon many people like, added pick now and picks next year!
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They clearly had an expectation that one of the two CBs would be there for them, and they bailed when the draft unfolded differently. They still got a really good defensive player, and it's obvious by now that red flags aren't a negative in their personnel evaluations.
But you're right that they obviously didn't have much concern about the Eagles adding Smith. I'm not sure whether that's a reflection on the Eagles or on Smith, but it wasn't something they had much interest in guarding against, especially because I presume the Bears' offer would also have been available to them at 10, so they could have jumped out of that pick without helping a rival.
Either the Bears didn't make them the same offer, or the guy Dallas really wanted was Parsons all along, and the Eagles offering them a free third round pick to get him anyway was worth it to them.
I think that's exactly right. Or at least Parsons was far and away the next guy on their board after the corners went.
My guess is that if chicago were already negotiating with NY and had a deal outlined, they probably didn't want to screw them over to do business with Dallas at a similar price
It would've worked, too, if not for the Bears. Gettleman and Abrams deserve a massive amount of credit for taking a questionable situation for us and turning it into a free first round draft pick next year.
What Dallas did was the same thing the Giants did. Basically told the other team "Yeah, we'll trade, but only if our guy is gone". That assumes we'd draft Smith of course.
Yeah, but they did it with a division rival. I think it’s an unwritten rule as much as Dallas will downplay it. The fact remains that they have no defensive answer for Smith on their team so it makes sense to make the weakest team in the division grab him.
It would've worked, too, if not for the Bears. Gettleman and Abrams deserve a massive amount of credit for taking a questionable situation for us and turning it into a free first round draft pick next year.
What Dallas did was the same thing the Giants did. Basically told the other team "Yeah, we'll trade, but only if our guy is gone". That assumes we'd draft Smith of course.
I think it's very likely that Smith was our guy - I don't see how there's any getting around that. NYG did a great job of pivoting after missing out on their primary target, but I don't see how anyone can deny that Smith would have been the pick if he was there, just like Dallas would have taken either of the top corners if they were there.
My guess is that if chicago were already negotiating with NY and had a deal outlined, they probably didn't want to screw them over to do business with Dallas at a similar price
I always assume there is no shame in backstabbing when it comes to things like draft trades, but I think you're probably right.
Dallas got Micha Parsons and a third rounder
For swapping their first rounder this year.
There is no way the Bears were not talking to the Cowboys as well. They had to have been able to get our deal. They could have gotten 20, a first rounder next year, a fifth rounder this year, and fourth round next year.
I can't see the differential being made up by the fact that the Cowboys would rather have the Eagles have Smith than the Giants. Not that they did not make that evaluation, but if they did that is a bad deal. Worry about making your team better. because in this NFL fortunes can change and the Eagles could swipe their three first rounders next year for a complete overhaul at QB, making DeVonta Smith a much more difficult person to deal with. After all, they are going to have to deal with Smith in the division for a decade and both teams (Eagles and Giants) will probably have ups and downs in that decade.
Dallas got Micha Parsons and a third rounder
For swapping their first rounder this year.
There is no way the Bears were not talking to the Cowboys as well. They had to have been able to get our deal. They could have gotten 20, a first rounder next year, a fifth rounder this year, and fourth round next year.
I can't see the differential being made up by the fact that the Cowboys would rather have the Eagles have Smith than the Giants. Not that they did not make that evaluation, but if they did that is a bad deal. Worry about making your team better. because in this NFL fortunes can change and the Eagles could swipe their three first rounders next year for a complete overhaul at QB, making DeVonta Smith a much more difficult person to deal with. After all, they are going to have to deal with Smith in the division for a decade and both teams (Eagles and Giants) will probably have ups and downs in that decade.
Not to mention that they could’ve gotten Newsome or Farley at 20 who have the same ceiling as Parsons with better positional value.
Unfortunately for PHI, they are much more than a slot/flanker away from being good. So they "stuck it to us" when in reality, we got Toney and 2 #1's next year in what is being billed as a loaded class.
It looks to me like both DAL & PHI panicked at the prospect of the Giants getting Smith, and made a bad situation for them, worse.
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so they just passed it on down by allowing the Eagles to take 'allegedly' our guy. I don't blame Dallas, honestly, they got a third round pick for nothing.
It would've worked, too, if not for the Bears. Gettleman and Abrams deserve a massive amount of credit for taking a questionable situation for us and turning it into a free first round draft pick next year.
What Dallas did was the same thing the Giants did. Basically told the other team "Yeah, we'll trade, but only if our guy is gone". That assumes we'd draft Smith of course.
Yeah, but they did it with a division rival. I think it’s an unwritten rule as much as Dallas will downplay it. The fact remains that they have no defensive answer for Smith on their team so it makes sense to make the weakest team in the division grab him.
There was also an unwritten rule that you don't tank a game on purpose, but that didn't stop those scumbags in Philly from doing that either, so...
so what, that doesn't mean anything. They got the guy they would have drafted and picked up a third, but they could have had a pick ten picks later and got a quality player (who has more value positionally than Parsons even if Parsons was not there which while not likely is not unthinable). Then, they could have had THREE MORE picks, including a 2022 first and a fourth and fifth. It just boggles my mind that people say, "oh well, they got the guy they wanted" and they also got the third. That makes no sense if there is pot of gold sitting next you that you ignore.
this is simply what DAL had available to them at a spot where they didn't love their options and figured they'd get an extra pick while only dropping 2 spots
this is simply what DAL had available to them at a spot where they didn't love their options and figured they'd get an extra pick while only dropping 2 spots
Are you saying the Bears couldn't find their number?
Dallas got an extra third-round pick, essentially for free. I think that was the main inducement, not the opportunity to screw the Giants. By the way, they get to do that again in round three, where they pick right before the Giants.
Then they failed. They only got a "pick":)
Dallas got an extra third-round pick, essentially for free. I think that was the main inducement, not the opportunity to screw the Giants. By the way, they get to do that again in round three, where they pick right before the Giants.
Here is my question, why wouldn't they trade to the QB needy team. And, if it was for them to get Parsons a guy that they would not have picked at 10 if Surtain or Horn was on the board, they made a terrible decision because how high could they have possible rated Parsons if they were going to take Horn or Surtain in front of him. You have to be a three-dimensional thinker in these things, and I just don't think, luckily for us, that Jones and Co. are that way with draft capital (I actually think they do a great job drafting players though).
I don't blame them, I'd have done the same thing if I were in their shoes. It bothered me a lot until the Giants landed that trade with the Bears, the fact they stuck with WR at 20 and landed Toney was icing on the cake for me.
this is simply what DAL had available to them at a spot where they didn't love their options and figured they'd get an extra pick while only dropping 2 spots
I agree it's probably that straightforward.
Look, Dallas has drafted very, very well for the last 5-7 years. Will McClay is their Ozzie Newsome. The Jones's are very smart to pay him a lot of money to never leave for a GM post elsewhere. So they have built up enough equity where you have to say they absolutely have a plan and are pretty damn good at executing it.
Jerry and his kids would all gladly jump in a vat of boiling lye water if it meant the Giants could be knocked down just one notch.
Davonta Smith's career will be determined by how well Jalen Hurts progresses.
Dallas and Philly...maybe they schemed and put this one together.Than the Giants reacted off that and tried to force the issue with a receiver.
Maybe the Bears pick turns pick turns into something.But it's still going to be apart of current Giant decision making.Which means it's already got a strike against it.
It would've worked, too, if not for the Bears. Gettleman and Abrams deserve a massive amount of credit for taking a questionable situation for us and turning it into a free first round draft pick next year.
What Dallas did was the same thing the Giants did. Basically told the other team "Yeah, we'll trade, but only if our guy is gone". That assumes we'd draft Smith of course.
Youdaid it best. Cowboys got screwed and I laughed with cheer but then they turned it aroynd and fucked us too
Dallas got an extra third-round pick, essentially for free. I think that was the main inducement, not the opportunity to screw the Giants. By the way, they get to do that again in round three, where they pick right before the Giants.
Exactly BBB. This is all there was to it, and it certainly didn't backfire on the Cowboys...
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Horn and Surtain were off the board, and their next option was Parsons. With the trade, they knew that Philly would take Smith and the Giants would either trade #11 to a QB-needy team or pick somebody other than Parsons. And even if they miscalculated, they probably had a fallback option graded very close to Parsons.
Dallas got an extra third-round pick, essentially for free. I think that was the main inducement, not the opportunity to screw the Giants. By the way, they get to do that again in round three, where they pick right before the Giants.
Exactly BBB. This is all there was to it, and it certainly didn't backfire on the Cowboys...
Skipped over Blogger's comments, but I agree this is a good summary.
According to Judge and Gentleman. It was Phillythat left no shame to take Smith
Interesting perspective. I'm wondering, however, if it was just simply a case of:
(A) Dallas put in a dilemma with both their CBs off the Board;
(B) They wouldn't take a WR at 10 given how loaded they are at that position;
(C) Thus, they felt they could snag an extra pick, move down a couple of slots, and then select Micah Parsons who brings them "need" and "value" at #12.
Davonta Smith's career will be determined by how well Jalen Hurts progresses.
I mean I think his career will be determined if he can stay healthy. Hurts is probably the QB there this year and that's it. They are going to suck next year and will be drafting a QB. Plus great WR talent is obvious, AROB hasn't had anyone good throwing to him ever and he just got paid (or tagged forgot which)
This is a great way of looking at the 1st rd.
Dg et all did quite well last night
Jerry has been pretty good figuring out how to manage difficult personalities over his thirty years as an owner. So if any organization can create an environment for Parsons to work, it's Dallas.
Football talent wise, Parson is totally a blue chipper. If they manage him well, he's going to be the best defensive player from this draft. Quinn should turn him loose like Bobby Wagner and enjoy the rewards...
so what, that doesn't mean anything. They got the guy they would have drafted and picked up a third, but they could have had a pick ten picks later and got a quality player (who has more value positionally than Parsons even if Parsons was not there which while not likely is not unthinable). Then, they could have had THREE MORE picks, including a 2022 first and a fourth and fifth. It just boggles my mind that people say, "oh well, they got the guy they wanted" and they also got the third. That makes no sense if there is pot of gold sitting next you that you ignore.
I have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m just addressing the OP’s “respect” angle, not comparing what the Cowboys and Giants did. They both made really intelligent decisions.
Thrilling!
Chris, I’m not so sure we fleeced Chicago, especially if Fields is as good as advertised. Let’s look at this objectively....the 4th and 5th round picks are major crap shoots, right? I doubt these two guys can be counted on to start in the nfl apart from ST.
The #1 pick was the key, but what if it’s the 25th pick? Don’t forget, we moved down 9 spots. And like I said, QB is the most important position in the nfl....if Fields is the real deal, he is worth a number one.
Fleeced? Hold on for now....
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so what, that doesn't mean anything. They got the guy they would have drafted and picked up a third, but they could have had a pick ten picks later and got a quality player (who has more value positionally than Parsons even if Parsons was not there which while not likely is not unthinable). Then, they could have had THREE MORE picks, including a 2022 first and a fourth and fifth. It just boggles my mind that people say, "oh well, they got the guy they wanted" and they also got the third. That makes no sense if there is pot of gold sitting next you that you ignore.
I have no clue what you’re talking about. I’m just addressing the OP’s “respect” angle, not comparing what the Cowboys and Giants did. They both made really intelligent decisions.
I am saying the Cowboys did not make that intelligent a decision if the Bears offer was out there.
Yeah... I don't know for a fact, but my guess is that Philly called them to explore a trade and not the other way around...
I said the same thing last year..wasnt well received on bbi.
Dallas attempts to punk us are getting very annoying, if not
then screw them anyway. Have hated that team since Dandy Don.
On a personal note I felt somewhat vindicated that every player I wanted for the Giants except Parsons was picked in front of us.
My list going in was Surtain, Horn, Waddle, Smith, Chase, Pitts, Sewell and Parsons that went 12. I felt the corners were much better prospects than the edge.
Rodgers noise fucked us. Without it the Broncos go QB. They are sitting 24 million under the cap. Rodgers will not play in GB this year. Rodgers will start for the Broncos this year.
either way, I fail to see what that has to do with their feelings about us as a team - which was the point I was responding to.
Had Dallas accepted a deal with Chicago they would have lost out on Parsons, Slater, and Collins. All these players had been connected to Dallas. The one player left was Farley, but Dallas is leery about his back and had taken him off the board for the 1st round.
Pick 20 would have given Dallas picks next year, but left them in no man land for this year. Going down two spots was about Dallas attaining a player and extra premium pick this year. It was not about how can Dallas screw NY. That's just dumb.
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Talk about drafting for need. I feel like the consensus is that Smith was the last blue chip talent on the board and they passed on him. I think they are going to be upset moving forward, especially when Parsons starts ruining that locker room. There is a billion percent something there and of course the Cowboys are willing to overlook. Seems like a bit of an asshole, and not in a good way that you want in football players. Being with guys like that in locker room day after day is a fucking drag, and I wouldn't be surprised if Judge himself took him off the board.
Jerry has been pretty good figuring out how to manage difficult personalities over his thirty years as an owner. So if any organization can create an environment for Parsons to work, it's Dallas.
Football talent wise, Parson is totally a blue chipper. If they manage him well, he's going to be the best defensive player from this draft. Quinn should turn him loose like Bobby Wagner and enjoy the rewards...
How well is Dallas really managing "difficult personalities" though?? They haven't won shit since the early 90's and there have cycled through a lot of bad characters.
How many titles or playoff wins did Aldon Smith or Greg Hardy deliver?
About Dallas making a deal with mephistopheles (the Eagles)-
https://www.yahoo.com/news/eagles-cowboys-put-storied-rivalry-134542274.html
"Trades happen a lot. Normally, it doesn't happen within the division, but the enemy of my enemy is my friend,"
The Giants like to go against the grain at times or at least go against what many mocks had. It shouldn't be taboo to suggest the Giants would have drafted Toney over Smith if both are there at 11. I know that won't rb some her the right way, god forbid the Giants pulled the wool over Philly's eyes....but it just might have happened. Smith is NOT the quick twitch ankle breaking athlete that Toney is. He's more polished but he doesn't move like Toney does.
that's not it at all. Dallas made the trade because they knew NYG wouldn't take Parsons and they could get the extra 3rd without losing him. This has nothing to do with Philly or NYG.
Jerry has been pretty good figuring out how to manage difficult personalities over his thirty years as an owner. So if any organization can create an environment for Parsons to work, it's Dallas.
Football talent wise, Parson is totally a blue chipper. If they manage him well, he's going to be the best defensive player from this draft. Quinn should turn him loose like Bobby Wagner and enjoy the rewards...
How well is Dallas really managing "difficult personalities" though?? They haven't won shit since the early 90's and there have cycled through a lot of bad characters.
How many titles or playoff wins did Aldon Smith or Greg Hardy deliver?
That's a different topic.
When they have drafted or signed a challenging personality, more often than not that player was pretty damn productive - Haley, Irvin, Norton, Sanders, TO, Dez, MeShawn, Roy Williams, etc.
I'm sure there are more I am forgetting, but you get the gist.
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than Jones throwing to Smith. I think Dallas recognizes that Jones, with improved protection, is a force to be reckoned with.
that's not it at all. Dallas made the trade because they knew NYG wouldn't take Parsons and they could get the extra 3rd without losing him. This has nothing to do with Philly or NYG.
That is all this is. Very simple and doesn’t need the NYG fandom embellishments...
Sure, but I prefer they don't use the word "Gun" any formation Toney is involved in. Just seems a bad omen.
I'm still smiling on that one