So many here still harp on 2018 and the consequential impact of some of those decisions. I agree that 18-19 was a disaster, but that is now history.
Since the Joe Judge hire, it seems the leadership and process has improved immensely. I’m very impressed with how prepared the Giants were last night. The Eagles move up for Smith, and the Giants pivot to a trade down and net an additional first rounder. No panic, and took full advantage of Fields still being on the board. Here are a few reasons for optimism:
-The Giants aren’t married to Jones. This is a make or break year for him. If he plays great, the Giants likely win the division. If he plays poor, the Giants move off him with 2 first round picks in 2022.
-Ownership has given Judge an increased budget for his coaching staff which he is filling with strong connections and shared philosophy. He’s also brought in a young, smart offensive mind (Russ Callaway).
-Giants hire Kyle O’Brien to the front office, a young mind and someone from the outside to strengthen the front office.
Everyone harps on Gettleman, but it is so much more than Gettleman. The Giants had a very sound process last night and took full advantage of the situation. It appears that the group think of Judge, Gettleman, Abrams, Pettit & O’Brien has yielded a strong 2021 draft philosophy. I’m not even a huge fan of the Toney pick, I would have preferred Paye - but, I loved the process to get to Toney.
I’m not saying this is all Judge. However, I think Judge was the kick in the ass that this franchise needed. Strong attention to detail and prepared. He has everyone on their toes and no one is comfortable. That fresh perspective helps in pulling off a trade down like last night.
A lot of reasons for optimism.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
Barkley.
He is discussed, but every time he is brought up, posters say he isn't good, which leads to thread hijacking.
- hired a young coach with big leadership ability and vision
- invest heavily in coverage on defense, with creative blitz concepts
- invest heavily in the trenches
- if you have a QB on a rookie scale deal, go for it (better to pay now than have DJ work out but not have the horses midseason)
- build in redundancy with weapons
- when rare trade opportunities come along to set up future drafts take it and run
Success/failure next year will hinge on Judge/Jones. But hard to not like what we've seen in the process. The franchise has armed each of them with every resource they could ask for to succeed.
To me their still in the same cycle they've been in for the past 10 years.
We need Garrett and the "offensive braintrust" to figure out ways to maximize the increased offensive skill position talent.
While Edge is clearly a need, I'm more inclined to go offensive line in round two and leave a "defense by committee" up to our resident defensive mad scientist Pat Graham.
Go defense in rounds 3 & 4, but if a stud OL is there at #42, I think you upgrade the OL.
The NFL is clearly altering the game to favor the offense. The Giants are going to have to put up a lot of points to win games.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a diehard NY Giants defense fan, but the offense has been so "offensive" the past few years, we really need to fix it once and for all and that means the offensive line.
The offensive line from the 2007 to 2008 era was such a strength (blue collar guys that played very well together and stayed healthy); they were the cornerstone of the team in some way.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
So is the roster no longer a mess?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
It drives me nuts that people are using Gallman's numbers from last year to "prove" RB is a fungible position and it's all offensive line. If you extrapolated the splits, Barkley would have ran for 6 ypc last year, even on that dog shit offense (most positive thing I could say was they run block decent and DJ was looking very promising by year end). I'm excited for the season to start so this argument can die. I'm just over it and sick of people acting like ONE football player does it on his own. Saquon is a rare guy that can, but when he has support around him, we are going to see some ridiculous plays, instead of him constantly being dragged down behind line of scrimmage.
Yep, well said. We have a HC who has a vision and philosophy, and it's one that resonates with players. I hope Judge and Graham are here for a long time
But I'm glad I'm in early - I have a feeling this thread will get hijacked shortly
Then I thought....well...they will bunch us up!
Wait...Golladay & Slayton wide to go deep and Rudolph underneath.
All of a sudden we are looking like the Chiefs or the Saints!
I can't wait for tonight! I can't wait for tomorrow!
I am finally dreaming where I don't wake up with sweats!
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
To me their still in the same cycle they've been in for the past 10 years.
Exactly. What's written down on paper means nothing until it translates to wins on the field.
Some seem to be able to handwave a decade of poor football and poor decisions away, but I can't.
Kyle Rudolph brings a reliable target to the offense and he will be a real weapon in the red zone.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
Agree 100%. And Imagine if Shurmur didn't stop calling his number for no reason when he was rolling.
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
I think the OL was markedly better at the end of 2020 than at the beginning. THey were not good the first month when Barkley played.
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
Barkley played a total of 5 quarters behind last year's line, at it's shittiest, and 4/5 quarters were against the best defense it faced all year.
In 2018 he was as elite as the word gets behind Solder, Hernandez as a rookie, Pio/Pulley at C, Omahmem/Brown, and Flowers/Wheeler.
I'm far more worried about Barkley's performance being impacted by his health than the current talent level of the OL because for wherever it isn't, it is already light years beyond what it was in 2018.
Link - ( New Window )
The other thing to keep in mind is we had no business picking at 11. The Eagles throwing a game was the difference between us picking 11 and 19. So we came out of this pretty damn good.
Quote:
or optimistic, but so much of the Giants success in 2021 relies again on the OL again which so far isn't very different than last year, except + Solder and - Zeitler which is probably a net negative.
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
Barkley played a total of 5 quarters behind last year's line, at it's shittiest, and 4/5 quarters were against the best defense it faced all year.
In 2018 he was as elite as the word gets behind Solder, Hernandez as a rookie, Pio/Pulley at C, Omahmem/Brown, and Flowers/Wheeler.
I'm far more worried about Barkley's performance being impacted by his health than the current talent level of the OL because for wherever it isn't, it is already light years beyond what it was in 2018.
Go back and read the threads from last year between the draft and the season and how good everyone thought the OL would be.
I'll believe it's better when I see it.
My most vivid recent memories of Barkley are being hit 2, 3, or 4 times behind the line of scrimmage and trying to salvage a yard. The memories of Barkley breaking off long runs and catching TD's from Beckham are distant memories.
It isn’t just the roster for me either. It’s that I see a clear vision and plan. There is a process, and I haven’t felt that way in years.
I see a path to contention. I don't think it's likely but I wouldn't be shocked if this team gets 10 or 11 wins next year (I never would have said that in any of the previous three years). I'd guess 7-8 wins this year but can see 10/11 if Jones steps up.
The 5-7 first-place Giants are now averaging 119.8 yards a game and 4.5 yards-per-carry for the season. That places them 11th and 12th, respectively, in the league. The Giants' last notable rushing season was 2010, when they finished sixth in the NFL with an average of 137.5 yards. Since then, their highest season-ending ranking and average was in 2012, when they were 14th in the league at 116.4.
The Giants have rushed for more than 100 yards in seven consecutive games, their longest streak since doing it nine games in a row in 2010. They are 5-3 when they rush for more than 100 yards and 0-4 when they don't.
Inside the Numbers: The success of the run game - ( New Window )
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
I hate to say this, but I’ve pretty much written Barkley off...I can’t imagine he could be the player he was when we drafted him. Oh well, as long as we have a Plan B and a Plan C in place, much like last year with Gallman.
Quote:
You know who I think is being under-discussed?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
So is the roster no longer a mess?
No it isn't. The defense is light years from what it was in 2018/19. We've added a big time talent at WR along with the Joystick. There's potential the experience from 2020 will help the young OLine gel in 2021. Specials should be improved with Toney as well.
Not everything is doom and gloom. If you don't want to get your hopes up that's your prerogative but to think the roster hasn't greatly improved is just weird at this point.
2022 is not considered to be a good QB class. so if jones stinks, next year is not the year to replace him via the draft (although perhaps they could trade for a QB)
it's entirely possible that the team becomes competitive enough to consistently finish league average with jones but never being able to get over that hump due to jones not being good and never having a chance to draft a franchise QB due to them being just good enough to not get a super high pick in a year when there are good QBs.
OR
jones stinks this year. the team panic drafts a bad QB next year (they did this with jones) and then this process starts all over again
Quote:
You know who I think is being under-discussed?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
So is the roster no longer a mess?
You must have missed my post free agency article.
-- Jones was not good in his sophomore campaign.
-- Barkley is a big TBD off the injury.
-- I don't know how anyone can be bullish on this OL - yet.
-- KG is interesting and a position upgrade. But NY isn't Detroit and he's no longer going to be catching passes from Stafford
-- TE continues to be a wildcard - Can EE relearn how to catch and what does Rudolph truly have left...?
-- Can Slayton bounce back?
-- Is Shep gone? Is Toney the answer?
So until I see good answers- and so much of this hinges on Jones, btw - I need to see results on the field.
Why no panic? - ( New Window )
my prior post was simply in response to the title of the thread as to how someone could not be optimistic
Quote:
Since the start of Week 6, the Giants have rushed for 1,042 yards and averaged 148.8 yards a game and 4.8 yards an attempt. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, during that span, they have the NFL's sixth-highest rushing total, fifth-highest per-game average and fourth-highest average per carry, behind Philadelphia (5.5), Tennessee (5.3) and Arizona (5.2). The Giants host the Cardinals Sunday in MetLife Stadium.
The 5-7 first-place Giants are now averaging 119.8 yards a game and 4.5 yards-per-carry for the season. That places them 11th and 12th, respectively, in the league. The Giants' last notable rushing season was 2010, when they finished sixth in the NFL with an average of 137.5 yards. Since then, their highest season-ending ranking and average was in 2012, when they were 14th in the league at 116.4.
The Giants have rushed for more than 100 yards in seven consecutive games, their longest streak since doing it nine games in a row in 2010. They are 5-3 when they rush for more than 100 yards and 0-4 when they don't.
Inside the Numbers: The success of the run game - ( New Window )
Yes, I watched every game, and if you think the Giants OL was solid we watched different football.
After the Seattle game which got everyone excited the Giants leading rusher rushed for 57, 39, 27, and 65 - pretty sure regardless of how he fared in FA Gallman doesn't deserve all the blame for that (I don't even think he even played in all those games).
The OL was brutal last year.
If you like PFF they rated them 31st.
My point is, again, not being pessimistic, just pointing out how much of the Giants success on offense will be related to the OL (or I guess Jones).
the Giants get Barkley back, added Golladay, Rudolph, Booker, Toney (so far), so I don't think people will say "Jones has no weapons", so if it's not Jones and the offense stagnates, it will be the OL.
Good point and don’t forget Pat Flaherty’s influence there too.
Go Giants!
I do like Joe Judge and the direction we are heading. It will be interesting to see what JonC says about our roster after the draft. He keeps it real.
-- Jones was not good in his sophomore campaign.
-- Barkley is a big TBD off the injury.
-- I don't know how anyone can be bullish on this OL - yet.
-- KG is interesting and a position upgrade. But NY isn't Detroit and he's no longer going to be catching passes from Stafford
-- TE continues to be a wildcard - Can EE relearn how to catch and what does Rudolph truly have left...?
-- Can Slayton bounce back?
-- Is Shep gone? Is Toney the answer?
So until I see good answers- and so much of this hinges on Jones, btw - I need to see results on the field.
I am optimistic but all of bw’s points are relevant.
Quote:
You know who I think is being under-discussed?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
I hate to say this, but I’ve pretty much written Barkley off...I can’t imagine he could be the player he was when we drafted him. Oh well, as long as we have a Plan B and a Plan C in place, much like last year with Gallman.
You’re a clown.
But so much more has to be shown on the field of play though, particularly from the QB and that weak-ass Offensive Line before you can say the Giants have a good roster. The goal is to be competitive from week to week, against all teams. And start winning more of those than you lose.
Build a winning program...
The Giants have addressed two major flaws in the roster from last year -- 1) WR 2) corner.
It's not lost on me some of the weenies on this thread were quite positive those positions we're just fine last year. But we won't penalize them for being themselves.
The lynchpins in this now are:
1) can Barkley stay healthy and cut down on the < 2 yard runs 2) can Jones produce more points
Both of those factors are directly related to how well the line plays. If the offensive line crumples, this thing won't work.
There are so many Giant games over the past 10 years where, looking back, I can't tell what year it was because they've been not just bad... but unwatchable lol
They'll be good? I'll believe it when I see it.
1) can Barkley stay healthy and cut down on the < 2 yard runs 2) can Jones produce more points
If those are in order of importance, I would definitely flip them. SB returning to health helps, but Jones has to be drive the offense, not just be a passenger.
Go Giants!
They already have.
This definitely appears improved. 2021-2022 will be really telling.
Until there are actual results, the jury is still out if we have the right new people running the right process.
But think back to last year, whenever the Giants tried to run sweeps (even before Barkley was hurt), or their version of jet sweeps. The plays were simply not there: our Ts could not seal the edge, our TEs were mostly inept (EE terrible, Toilolo meh, and Smith inconsistent and not powerful enough). These plays more often than not went for losses as the Ss or LBs crashed the play in our backfield. I love the idea of Toney having the ball in the backfield, and with DJ's running ability on misdirection, but if the Giants don't design and execute such plays better than 2020, we'll see him crumpled in the backfield for losses also. Never mind tightening up the interior OL against the pass rush. Still so much work to do, and it's very evident why one can conclude that the OL is worse off with the loss of KZ. The new FA G was rated as League bottom, and we have all the ??s with our incumbent Gs, Peart, and Solder (no clue what we get from him).
THe Bear #1 next year could easily be a top 10 pick. So To those who say trading down is not a good idea, the recisit this next year. I am optimistic that we got really good value out of the #11 pick.
And yes, things feel different with the Judge in the house.
Quote:
....But hard to not like what we've seen in the process. The franchise has armed each of them with every resource they could ask for to succeed.
This is simply not true, Eric. Earlier today, I think it was you who made a very good post about Toney and what he brings to the offense, which among other attributes is E-W speed, horizontal speed to complement Golliday's and Slayton's vertical speed. This was a sound observation.
But think back to last year, whenever the Giants tried to run sweeps (even before Barkley was hurt), or their version of jet sweeps. The plays were simply not there: our Ts could not seal the edge, our TEs were mostly inept (EE terrible, Toilolo meh, and Smith inconsistent and not powerful enough). These plays more often than not went for losses as the Ss or LBs crashed the play in our backfield. I love the idea of Toney having the ball in the backfield, and with DJ's running ability on misdirection, but if the Giants don't design and execute such plays better than 2020, we'll see him crumpled in the backfield for losses also. Never mind tightening up the interior OL against the pass rush. Still so much work to do, and it's very evident why one can conclude that the OL is worse off with the loss of KZ. The new FA G was rated as League bottom, and we have all the ??s with our incumbent Gs, Peart, and Solder (no clue what we get from him).
Judge has been given carte blanche to hire the largest coaching staff in the league. If they cannot get organized to utilize personnel correctly, develop their younger players, and ultimately execute plays better than a year ago Joe Judge owns that. As evidenced by the Columbo situation this coaching staff is his and we know he has vast input on the roster as well. Like most I would like to see more talent added in a number of places but in terms of overall resources invested Judge and Jones have gotten all any coach/QB can expect and more.
Let me add this because I think it's important - I've feel great about Graham as the DC. He's got some serious chops and should keep us in most games with his game planning & adjustments.
Yes, I watched every game, and if you think the Giants OL was solid we watched different football.
I think there's a pretty wide space in between "shitty" and "solid". Even with Jones gimpy and marginal (at best) RBs, post-Columbo there was a lot of improvement - which is 1 of the big reasons why Jones had a lot less turnovers in the 2nd half of the year. From week 9 on Jones only had 1 int and 2 fumbles lost (6 games).
The Giants appear to be a stable organization. Clearly players are happy coming to NY and it also appears that the organization has found a sweet spot with regards to working together.
- Rookie OLT after Solder opts out
- New C working in a position never played before
- New HC
- New OC/system
- New OL coach (who ended up not working out, a surprise)
- Position group most dependent on playing together
- Position group where full contact practice is key
- No pre-season to work out the kinks, first 4 should have BEEN preseason
Add facing tough Ds right off the bat and losing our biggest offensive piece, and having a very mediocre group at wideout. Guys we’re not winning clean at the LOS a lot.
Just a 2nd year together, same system, with a full off- and preseason, full contact, and guys not brand new to their positions should help. Another player in the draft and more competition, better still. WRs that can get open and a reasonably healthy SB more, too.
Quote:
....But hard to not like what we've seen in the process. The franchise has armed each of them with every resource they could ask for to succeed.
This is simply not true, Eric. Earlier today, I think it was you who made a very good post about Toney and what he brings to the offense, which among other attributes is E-W speed, horizontal speed to complement Golliday's and Slayton's vertical speed. This was a sound observation.
But think back to last year, whenever the Giants tried to run sweeps (even before Barkley was hurt), or their version of jet sweeps. The plays were simply not there: our Ts could not seal the edge, our TEs were mostly inept (EE terrible, Toilolo meh, and Smith inconsistent and not powerful enough). These plays more often than not went for losses as the Ss or LBs crashed the play in our backfield. I love the idea of Toney having the ball in the backfield, and with DJ's running ability on misdirection, but if the Giants don't design and execute such plays better than 2020, we'll see him crumpled in the backfield for losses also. Never mind tightening up the interior OL against the pass rush. Still so much work to do, and it's very evident why one can conclude that the OL is worse off with the loss of KZ. The new FA G was rated as League bottom, and we have all the ??s with our incumbent Gs, Peart, and Solder (no clue what we get from him).
If the O line is not better than last year the team won’t be any better this year no matter how many weapons you add. Adding more young guys to an already young, and inexperienced line does not bode well. Better players will help, but bringing in some veteran guys would have been better.
The draft in 2022 is going to be thick with talent and the Bears are going to be awful again, with a rookie QB etc. So the pick the Giants will receive from them may be in the top ten. Not bad DG!
Getting Toney @ 20 in this draft was maybe a little stretch, because he was probably going to be a 2nd rounder, but not where the Giants were picking. The guy is talented in many ways, he used to be a QB then switched to WR, so he has a good football IQ.
With all of the offseason signings the Giants have done, getting good quality players, how can't we be optimistic.
Looking forward to tonight!
GO BIG BLUE!!!
They have made active evaluations of their current roster which have them in the position they are in. If the OL fails it's because those evaluations were wrong.
Bottom line: if the OL is once again a bad one, all the shiny talent, everything that JJ and DJ could ask for, will be largely negated and a failed OL another cruel epithet for yet another bad season. I hope I'm wrong.
Quote:
Judge has been given carte blanche to hire the largest coaching staff in the league. If they cannot get organized to utilize personnel correctly, develop their younger players, and ultimately execute plays better than a year ago Joe Judge owns that. As evidenced by the Columbo situation this coaching staff is his and we know he has vast input on the roster as well. Like most I would like to see more talent added in a number of places but in terms of overall resources invested Judge and Jones have gotten all any coach/QB can expect and more.
I respect your opinions, and some of this is inarguably valid. It seems you and Sy' are on the same page here, not a bad place to be. Maybe the new OL coach transforms a bottom three NFL unit into something much better, a Pats' like OL with its fair share of non-entities. But I'm jaded, having lived through the empty promises of ten years of a work in process that never matures into something durable and effective. We get to experience this unit's warts and fails on a weekly basis. I remain of the view that the OL is deficient until proven otherwise. Salah goes right to where I would have been happy, adding AVT 3 spots after the 11th.
Bottom line: if the OL is once again a bad one, all the shiny talent, everything that JJ and DJ could ask for, will be largely negated and a failed OL another cruel epithet for yet another bad season. I hope I'm wrong.
That's completely fair. Also to be clear I'm not saying they are right in their evaluation of the OL. I think there's evidence both ways and the results were clearly mixed last year. I would not have complained about adding AVT or Slater yesterday and would probably still have preferred either if they were available at #20. Just pointing out the NYG made an active choice to prioritize WR > OL, so I can only infer from that they like the guys they have.
Quote:
Yes, I watched every game, and if you think the Giants OL was solid we watched different football.
I think there's a pretty wide space in between "shitty" and "solid". Even with Jones gimpy and marginal (at best) RBs, post-Columbo there was a lot of improvement - which is 1 of the big reasons why Jones had a lot less turnovers in the 2nd half of the year. From week 9 on Jones only had 1 int and 2 fumbles lost (6 games).
So if you give the OL credit for lack of turnovers, who gets the blame for lack of points?
After the bye week they broke 20 points one time. the finale vs DAL.
the offense just couldn't move the ball.
I'm not pessimistic but I think there's also a wide gap between pessimistic between optimistic - it's not black and white.
I’m nervous about what their ceiling is. I’m concerned Lemieux and Hernandez are low upside players and I’m concerned of any scenario where Solder plays.
I’m nervous offensive line is yet again a fatal flaw for this team.
So if you give the OL credit for lack of turnovers, who gets the blame for lack of points?
Colt McCoy was the only healthy QB for the 4 weeks from Jones getting hurt vs CIN through the CLE game, and he only threw 1 TD in those 4 weeks. A journeyman backup QB with a future journeyman Wayne Gallman and over the hill journeyman Alfred Morris as the skill players with the most touches is not a recipe for scoring. Especially when the 1 explosive player on the offense (Engram) is only consistent at making mistakes.
I’m nervous about what their ceiling is. I’m concerned Lemieux and Hernandez are low upside players and I’m concerned of any scenario where Solder plays.
I’m nervous offensive line is yet again a fatal flaw for this team.
but perhaps wrongfully I take some comfort in the fact that it seems the NYG are very comfortable with what they have. They did that before with CC Brown at safety and it basically tanked their entire season but I don't think this regime would make that mistake (particularly this coaching staff).
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
I agree 1000%. I am just incredibly worried that he never gets back to that point. I just can't see a huge impact from him less than a year removed from an ACL tear. I hope I am so wrong.
Quote:
So if you give the OL credit for lack of turnovers, who gets the blame for lack of points?
Colt McCoy was the only healthy QB for the 4 weeks from Jones getting hurt vs CIN through the CLE game, and he only threw 1 TD in those 4 weeks. A journeyman backup QB with a future journeyman Wayne Gallman and over the hill journeyman Alfred Morris as the skill players with the most touches is not a recipe for scoring. Especially when the 1 explosive player on the offense (Engram) is only consistent at making mistakes.
But McCoy was the QB for the breakout rushing attack game vs Seattle. Wasn't he?
Seems like you are searching for convenient excuses.
When the rushing game excelled (Seattle - with McCoy at QB) the OL is good, every other game the rushing game struggled (as did the offense in general) it's because of a journeyman QB.
the OL just wasn't that good.
I hope they improve, I don't want to have everything else in place but lose in the trenches negating some of the other additions. It's really the main concern I have and while I don't call what I am pessimistic I will say I am concerned about the OL.
but perhaps wrongfully I take some comfort in the fact that it seems the NYG are very comfortable with what they have. They did that before with CC Brown at safety and it basically tanked their entire season but I don't think this regime would make that mistake (particularly this coaching staff).
"Very comfortable" will be tested tonight. If they chose an OL tonight, because a 2nd round pick is a big investment, than I think we can say they aren't "very comfortable". Maybe comfortable with a few parts, but not with the entire line as is.
However, if they don't go OL tonight, and wait until the 4th round tomorrow, than "very comfortable" is probably apt.
And I would be shocked, not surprised but shocked, if Judge thinks differently...
Giants take a step forward in 2021 and their own pick is in the last 12 picks of the first round.
Daniel Jones proves that he is the Giants QB, at least for now.
Bears struggle with a rookie QB, miss the playoffs and their pick is top-10.
On draft day 2022, a top QB prospect is on the board when the Giants are on the clock with the Bears' pick.
The Giants again get overpaid by a team desperate for a QB and trade down. This time, given the tight cap and the deep draft, they eschew a 2023 first-rounder and stock up on extra 2022 picks: either an 2022 first-rounder or a couple of 2022 second-rounders, plus whatever else fills out the deal. They might end up with 10 or 11 picks in that draft. That is really too many but would free them to flip some picks to get 2023 picks if they get a great offer. They'd be in a virtuous cycle of flipping assets for picks.
Makes me a little itchy the Giants are on their 3rd offensive line coach under Judge, replacing 2 to 3 starters, and there were equal glimpses of positive and dreadful play last year.
I think it's the unit with the most likelihood to be bad. And what an institutional bummer if the story is "the Giants looked pretty good, but the offensive line sucked" -- again.
Dude had the most sacks in the SEC last year. 75 tackles for losses in college.
Quote:
but perhaps wrongfully I take some comfort in the fact that it seems the NYG are very comfortable with what they have. They did that before with CC Brown at safety and it basically tanked their entire season but I don't think this regime would make that mistake (particularly this coaching staff).
Makes me a little itchy the Giants are on their 3rd offensive line coach under Judge, replacing 2 to 3 starters, and there were equal glimpses of positive and dreadful play last year.
I think it's the unit with the most likelihood to be bad. And what an institutional bummer if the story is "the Giants looked pretty good, but the offensive line sucked" -- again.
Et tu Christian? You turning into Terps? Sai it ain’t so, Joe…😎😎
It is not actually possible to be a fan of this team and not be excited about the direction and the immediate future of the Giants.
I don't want to see marginal improvement towards him being a league average starter quality.
If 2021 ends and he looks like his ceiling is Jimmy Garappolo or Jared Goff, toss the fish back in the water and go fishing again.
Extra ammo next season means we have a legitimate Plan B if Jones doesn't show he moves the needle.
I don't want to see marginal improvement towards him being a league average starter quality.
If 2021 ends and he looks like his ceiling is Jimmy Garappolo or Jared Goff, toss the fish back in the water and go fishing again.
Extra ammo next season means we have a legitimate Plan B if Jones doesn't show he moves the needle.
Garoppolo? I'd be happy with a healthy and faster/tougher version of Garoppolo. He is pretty good, he just can't stay healthy.
If one post can personify the denial of our fanbase in connection with our shitty team for the past 10 years, it's this one lol
- hired a young coach with big leadership ability and vision
- invest heavily in coverage on defense, with creative blitz concepts
- invest heavily in the trenches
- if you have a QB on a rookie scale deal, go for it (better to pay now than have DJ work out but not have the horses midseason)
- build in redundancy with weapons
- when rare trade opportunities come along to set up future drafts take it and run
Success/failure next year will hinge on Judge/Jones. But hard to not like what we've seen in the process. The franchise has armed each of them with every resource they could ask for to succeed.
Yes, I am very optimistic! This team is gonna rock!
Jones' level of play, SB's return, WR and OL growth, LB growth, special teams improvements, FINISHING games, etc. Need finishers to emerge or be found next offseason, suspect it will be some of both. These are the things to look for on gameday.
Jones and the OL are the big keys for 2021. While they invested in the OL a year ago, I'm expecting more will be needed after this season. With the extra draft capital now in the bank for '22, this is shaping up to be the prove it season for Jones.
Watch the QB and OLB college stars this Fall, the Giants will be.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
?? wasn't his rookie season 2019?
Face it, Greg, you'll never be optimistic about anything.
Since February 2012, there's not much to be optimistic about around here.
Being a cheerleader is fine and it may make you feel good inside and all but ... some of the cynicism about this team is more often than not, justified.
Do you think the guy in charge of those dramatic improvements in player acquisitions will let a shitty QB ruin his chance for success?
...
Yeah, there is a hole in the logic.
I have news for you, I really believe Jones was not in position to succeed last year and Judge is going to make sure he does.
Jones is going to do a lot better than you predict. Call it a hunch. If Judge is in charge, he could have had Fields or another Mac.
Just sayin'