So many here still harp on 2018 and the consequential impact of some of those decisions. I agree that 18-19 was a disaster, but that is now history.
Since the Joe Judge hire, it seems the leadership and process has improved immensely. I’m very impressed with how prepared the Giants were last night. The Eagles move up for Smith, and the Giants pivot to a trade down and net an additional first rounder. No panic, and took full advantage of Fields still being on the board. Here are a few reasons for optimism:
-The Giants aren’t married to Jones. This is a make or break year for him. If he plays great, the Giants likely win the division. If he plays poor, the Giants move off him with 2 first round picks in 2022.
-Ownership has given Judge an increased budget for his coaching staff which he is filling with strong connections and shared philosophy. He’s also brought in a young, smart offensive mind (Russ Callaway).
-Giants hire Kyle O’Brien to the front office, a young mind and someone from the outside to strengthen the front office.
Everyone harps on Gettleman, but it is so much more than Gettleman. The Giants had a very sound process last night and took full advantage of the situation. It appears that the group think of Judge, Gettleman, Abrams, Pettit & O’Brien has yielded a strong 2021 draft philosophy. I’m not even a huge fan of the Toney pick, I would have preferred Paye - but, I loved the process to get to Toney.
I’m not saying this is all Judge. However, I think Judge was the kick in the ass that this franchise needed. Strong attention to detail and prepared. He has everyone on their toes and no one is comfortable. That fresh perspective helps in pulling off a trade down like last night.
A lot of reasons for optimism.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
Barkley.
He is discussed, but every time he is brought up, posters say he isn't good, which leads to thread hijacking.
- hired a young coach with big leadership ability and vision
- invest heavily in coverage on defense, with creative blitz concepts
- invest heavily in the trenches
- if you have a QB on a rookie scale deal, go for it (better to pay now than have DJ work out but not have the horses midseason)
- build in redundancy with weapons
- when rare trade opportunities come along to set up future drafts take it and run
Success/failure next year will hinge on Judge/Jones. But hard to not like what we've seen in the process. The franchise has armed each of them with every resource they could ask for to succeed.
To me their still in the same cycle they've been in for the past 10 years.
We need Garrett and the "offensive braintrust" to figure out ways to maximize the increased offensive skill position talent.
While Edge is clearly a need, I'm more inclined to go offensive line in round two and leave a "defense by committee" up to our resident defensive mad scientist Pat Graham.
Go defense in rounds 3 & 4, but if a stud OL is there at #42, I think you upgrade the OL.
The NFL is clearly altering the game to favor the offense. The Giants are going to have to put up a lot of points to win games.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a diehard NY Giants defense fan, but the offense has been so "offensive" the past few years, we really need to fix it once and for all and that means the offensive line.
The offensive line from the 2007 to 2008 era was such a strength (blue collar guys that played very well together and stayed healthy); they were the cornerstone of the team in some way.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
So is the roster no longer a mess?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
It drives me nuts that people are using Gallman's numbers from last year to "prove" RB is a fungible position and it's all offensive line. If you extrapolated the splits, Barkley would have ran for 6 ypc last year, even on that dog shit offense (most positive thing I could say was they run block decent and DJ was looking very promising by year end). I'm excited for the season to start so this argument can die. I'm just over it and sick of people acting like ONE football player does it on his own. Saquon is a rare guy that can, but when he has support around him, we are going to see some ridiculous plays, instead of him constantly being dragged down behind line of scrimmage.
Yep, well said. We have a HC who has a vision and philosophy, and it's one that resonates with players. I hope Judge and Graham are here for a long time
But I'm glad I'm in early - I have a feeling this thread will get hijacked shortly
Then I thought....well...they will bunch us up!
Wait...Golladay & Slayton wide to go deep and Rudolph underneath.
All of a sudden we are looking like the Chiefs or the Saints!
I can't wait for tonight! I can't wait for tomorrow!
I am finally dreaming where I don't wake up with sweats!
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
To me their still in the same cycle they've been in for the past 10 years.
Exactly. What's written down on paper means nothing until it translates to wins on the field.
Some seem to be able to handwave a decade of poor football and poor decisions away, but I can't.
Kyle Rudolph brings a reliable target to the offense and he will be a real weapon in the red zone.
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
Agree 100%. And Imagine if Shurmur didn't stop calling his number for no reason when he was rolling.
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
I think the OL was markedly better at the end of 2020 than at the beginning. THey were not good the first month when Barkley played.
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
Barkley played a total of 5 quarters behind last year's line, at it's shittiest, and 4/5 quarters were against the best defense it faced all year.
In 2018 he was as elite as the word gets behind Solder, Hernandez as a rookie, Pio/Pulley at C, Omahmem/Brown, and Flowers/Wheeler.
I'm far more worried about Barkley's performance being impacted by his health than the current talent level of the OL because for wherever it isn't, it is already light years beyond what it was in 2018.
Link - ( New Window )
The other thing to keep in mind is we had no business picking at 11. The Eagles throwing a game was the difference between us picking 11 and 19. So we came out of this pretty damn good.
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or optimistic, but so much of the Giants success in 2021 relies again on the OL again which so far isn't very different than last year, except + Solder and - Zeitler which is probably a net negative.
Even when healthy Barkley wasn't elite behind that shitty OL. Maybe Toney and Golladay and Rudolph help more than we know, maybe not.
Barkley played a total of 5 quarters behind last year's line, at it's shittiest, and 4/5 quarters were against the best defense it faced all year.
In 2018 he was as elite as the word gets behind Solder, Hernandez as a rookie, Pio/Pulley at C, Omahmem/Brown, and Flowers/Wheeler.
I'm far more worried about Barkley's performance being impacted by his health than the current talent level of the OL because for wherever it isn't, it is already light years beyond what it was in 2018.
Go back and read the threads from last year between the draft and the season and how good everyone thought the OL would be.
I'll believe it's better when I see it.
My most vivid recent memories of Barkley are being hit 2, 3, or 4 times behind the line of scrimmage and trying to salvage a yard. The memories of Barkley breaking off long runs and catching TD's from Beckham are distant memories.
It isn’t just the roster for me either. It’s that I see a clear vision and plan. There is a process, and I haven’t felt that way in years.
I see a path to contention. I don't think it's likely but I wouldn't be shocked if this team gets 10 or 11 wins next year (I never would have said that in any of the previous three years). I'd guess 7-8 wins this year but can see 10/11 if Jones steps up.
The 5-7 first-place Giants are now averaging 119.8 yards a game and 4.5 yards-per-carry for the season. That places them 11th and 12th, respectively, in the league. The Giants' last notable rushing season was 2010, when they finished sixth in the NFL with an average of 137.5 yards. Since then, their highest season-ending ranking and average was in 2012, when they were 14th in the league at 116.4.
The Giants have rushed for more than 100 yards in seven consecutive games, their longest streak since doing it nine games in a row in 2010. They are 5-3 when they rush for more than 100 yards and 0-4 when they don't.
Inside the Numbers: The success of the run game - ( New Window )
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
I hate to say this, but I’ve pretty much written Barkley off...I can’t imagine he could be the player he was when we drafted him. Oh well, as long as we have a Plan B and a Plan C in place, much like last year with Gallman.
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You know who I think is being under-discussed?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
So is the roster no longer a mess?
No it isn't. The defense is light years from what it was in 2018/19. We've added a big time talent at WR along with the Joystick. There's potential the experience from 2020 will help the young OLine gel in 2021. Specials should be improved with Toney as well.
Not everything is doom and gloom. If you don't want to get your hopes up that's your prerogative but to think the roster hasn't greatly improved is just weird at this point.
2022 is not considered to be a good QB class. so if jones stinks, next year is not the year to replace him via the draft (although perhaps they could trade for a QB)
it's entirely possible that the team becomes competitive enough to consistently finish league average with jones but never being able to get over that hump due to jones not being good and never having a chance to draft a franchise QB due to them being just good enough to not get a super high pick in a year when there are good QBs.
OR
jones stinks this year. the team panic drafts a bad QB next year (they did this with jones) and then this process starts all over again
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You know who I think is being under-discussed?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
So is the roster no longer a mess?
You must have missed my post free agency article.
-- Jones was not good in his sophomore campaign.
-- Barkley is a big TBD off the injury.
-- I don't know how anyone can be bullish on this OL - yet.
-- KG is interesting and a position upgrade. But NY isn't Detroit and he's no longer going to be catching passes from Stafford
-- TE continues to be a wildcard - Can EE relearn how to catch and what does Rudolph truly have left...?
-- Can Slayton bounce back?
-- Is Shep gone? Is Toney the answer?
So until I see good answers- and so much of this hinges on Jones, btw - I need to see results on the field.
Why no panic? - ( New Window )
my prior post was simply in response to the title of the thread as to how someone could not be optimistic
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Since the start of Week 6, the Giants have rushed for 1,042 yards and averaged 148.8 yards a game and 4.8 yards an attempt. According to the Elias Sports Bureau, during that span, they have the NFL's sixth-highest rushing total, fifth-highest per-game average and fourth-highest average per carry, behind Philadelphia (5.5), Tennessee (5.3) and Arizona (5.2). The Giants host the Cardinals Sunday in MetLife Stadium.
The 5-7 first-place Giants are now averaging 119.8 yards a game and 4.5 yards-per-carry for the season. That places them 11th and 12th, respectively, in the league. The Giants' last notable rushing season was 2010, when they finished sixth in the NFL with an average of 137.5 yards. Since then, their highest season-ending ranking and average was in 2012, when they were 14th in the league at 116.4.
The Giants have rushed for more than 100 yards in seven consecutive games, their longest streak since doing it nine games in a row in 2010. They are 5-3 when they rush for more than 100 yards and 0-4 when they don't.
Inside the Numbers: The success of the run game - ( New Window )
Yes, I watched every game, and if you think the Giants OL was solid we watched different football.
After the Seattle game which got everyone excited the Giants leading rusher rushed for 57, 39, 27, and 65 - pretty sure regardless of how he fared in FA Gallman doesn't deserve all the blame for that (I don't even think he even played in all those games).
The OL was brutal last year.
If you like PFF they rated them 31st.
My point is, again, not being pessimistic, just pointing out how much of the Giants success on offense will be related to the OL (or I guess Jones).
the Giants get Barkley back, added Golladay, Rudolph, Booker, Toney (so far), so I don't think people will say "Jones has no weapons", so if it's not Jones and the offense stagnates, it will be the OL.
Good point and don’t forget Pat Flaherty’s influence there too.
Go Giants!
I do like Joe Judge and the direction we are heading. It will be interesting to see what JonC says about our roster after the draft. He keeps it real.
-- Jones was not good in his sophomore campaign.
-- Barkley is a big TBD off the injury.
-- I don't know how anyone can be bullish on this OL - yet.
-- KG is interesting and a position upgrade. But NY isn't Detroit and he's no longer going to be catching passes from Stafford
-- TE continues to be a wildcard - Can EE relearn how to catch and what does Rudolph truly have left...?
-- Can Slayton bounce back?
-- Is Shep gone? Is Toney the answer?
So until I see good answers- and so much of this hinges on Jones, btw - I need to see results on the field.
I am optimistic but all of bw’s points are relevant.
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You know who I think is being under-discussed?
Barkley.
He looked like an MVP candidate after his rookie season... a guy who could take over a game.
Then came the injury crap in 2019 and 2020, with the latter obviously being the bigger long-term concern.
If he's anywhere near his 2018 self, look out.
I hate to say this, but I’ve pretty much written Barkley off...I can’t imagine he could be the player he was when we drafted him. Oh well, as long as we have a Plan B and a Plan C in place, much like last year with Gallman.
You’re a clown.
But so much more has to be shown on the field of play though, particularly from the QB and that weak-ass Offensive Line before you can say the Giants have a good roster. The goal is to be competitive from week to week, against all teams. And start winning more of those than you lose.
Build a winning program...
The Giants have addressed two major flaws in the roster from last year -- 1) WR 2) corner.
It's not lost on me some of the weenies on this thread were quite positive those positions we're just fine last year. But we won't penalize them for being themselves.
The lynchpins in this now are:
1) can Barkley stay healthy and cut down on the < 2 yard runs 2) can Jones produce more points
Both of those factors are directly related to how well the line plays. If the offensive line crumples, this thing won't work.