This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Correct. But we don’t need to draft another low end OL.
We already have enough of those.
Sy in his preview for what would today said he thought they’d go edge first and then possibly lb/defensive back and would hold off on ol, that the value wasn’t there...that was before a single pick was made. Mistakes are made when you force a pick at a position of need, so from that standpoint it seems the Giants did very well. Our second round pick was mocked several times to us as high as 11, our 3rd rounder was rated higher as a CB prospect by multiple sources than the guy Dallas took in round 2, and the Giants added another 2022 pick which are valued more than the picks in this draft because that draft will be much deeper. Hard to see how the Giants didn’t crush the draft for the second day in a row, I’m honestly stunned(in a good way).
Curtis Conway, NFL Network, projected AR going to the Bears
on the 2nd round. Conway added, "A couple of years from now, if we say, 'If we could do the draft over again, who would be in the first round?', that guy would be Aaron Robinson."
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
I think Lawrence and Williams are better pass rushers than they are space eaters.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
disagree -- it is both
Both is better but not realistic. You have a finite amount of resources, you will ultimately prioritized one or the other whether it's a conscious choice or not.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
they've been orienting towards both since 2019 (with Lawrence and Baker). If you count Beal Gettleman has drafted DBs on day 1 or 2 in each draft. The secondary depth they are starting to amass is something to behold though. Bradberry, Peppers, and Ryan are impact players. Jackson if healthy could make a case to be the best of the 4.
McKinney, Love, Holmes, Yiadom, and now Robinson could form a legitimately playable full second unit.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Danny Shelton said hi.
Shelton is a non commitment in terms of resources. Leonard Williams was prioritized over the cheaper DT because of what he could do in the passing game. Dexter Lawrence was a decision made for the run but that was decision made 2 years ago and there may be a shift going on here. He's a great player though.
that same draft they traded up for Baker. And the year prior they took BJ Hill in the 3rd and Beal with a supplemental 3rd. Both have been priorities and neither position has been given short shrift (which is why they are probably the 2 strongest position groups on the team).
Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Danny Shelton said hi.
The Giants replaced Tomlinson with basically a vet minimum player in Shelton. And then upgraded corner with a high priced UFA.
Listing the defensive lineman doesn’t change where the Giants are allocating their resources.
If you look at the 3 year resource spends DL and DB probably lead the way. Don't forget the LW trade + contract, in addition to Lawrence and BJ Hill. They've definitely put as much or more into DBs but part of that is twice as many DBs play every game as DL.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
they've been orienting towards both since 2019 (with Lawrence and Baker). If you count Beal Gettleman has drafted DBs on day 1 or 2 in each draft. The secondary depth they are starting to amass is something to behold though. Bradberry, Peppers, and Ryan are impact players. Jackson if healthy could make a case to be the best of the 4.
McKinney, Love, Holmes, Yiadom, and now Robinson could form a legitimately playable full second unit.
Sure, I’m just saying the balance of investment in the last 2 years has been tilted toward the pass/coverage. Robinson, Holmes, McKinney, Bradberry, Ryan and Galloday, Rudolph, Toney.
Sure, I’m just saying the balance of investment in the last 2 years has been tilted toward the pass/coverage. Robinson, Holmes, McKinney, Bradberry, Ryan and Galloday, Rudolph, Toney.
8-9 DB's play on Sundays which is generally 2 or 3 more than DL so it's not too surprising. More are carried on the roster so more need to be picked. Add to that that more of the DBs they have added haven't worked than the DL. Had Dexter Lawrence gotten arrested/suspended/cut or BJ Hill opted out due to C19 as Baker/Beal did they'd have had to use more resource in the last couple years.
The Giants didn’t spend a premium resource to upgrade a single offensive or defensive line position. They let a good DL in Tomlinson go and they cut a serviceable OL in Zeitler.
They then went and signed a top band corner for the 2nd consecutive year, signed a top band WR, used their first pick on a WR.
The Giants could have easily chosen to roll the dice with Yiadom, but they didn’t. They could have rolled the dice with Holmes, but looks like they aren’t.
They went bottom of the market with Shelton, near bottom of the market with Solder.
This is easy — the moment Judge walked in the door, this is a pass, stop the pass, rush the passer team.
This kid can play and I think Mike Hughes (first round corner from UCF
It is a passing league and big plays win games. These guys stop the big pass by rushing the passer and reducing the time to pass and by having the speed to defend against a super fast WR.
These 2 guys (whether you like them or hate them) are clearly not reaches. This is the first time in years that BBIers have not called any of our picks "reaches."
Even if you think, as I do, that we need offense here more than defense, Robinson ("Arob?") and Azeez have the talent to get on the field THIS season and help the team.
I prefer the choice of a talented defensive player than reaching for an offensive player. Get good players this year and improve the team. Regardless of whom we pick we're not going to the Super Bowl this year.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
they've been orienting towards both since 2019 (with Lawrence and Baker). If you count Beal Gettleman has drafted DBs on day 1 or 2 in each draft. The secondary depth they are starting to amass is something to behold though. Bradberry, Peppers, and Ryan are impact players. Jackson if healthy could make a case to be the best of the 4.
McKinney, Love, Holmes, Yiadom, and now Robinson could form a legitimately playable full second unit.
Sure, I’m just saying the balance of investment in the last 2 years has been tilted toward the pass/coverage. Robinson, Holmes, McKinney, Bradberry, Ryan and Galloday, Rudolph, Toney.
Maybe because they already have the guys on the team to stop the run?
The Giants didn’t spend a premium resource to upgrade a single offensive or defensive line position. They let a good DL in Tomlinson go and they cut a serviceable OL in Zeitler.
They then went and signed a top band corner for the 2nd consecutive year, signed a top band WR, used their first pick on a WR.
The Giants could have easily chosen to roll the dice with Yiadom, but they didn’t. They could have rolled the dice with Holmes, but looks like they aren’t.
They went bottom of the market with Shelton, near bottom of the market with Solder.
This is easy — the moment Judge walked in the door, this is a pass, stop the pass, rush the passer team.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
I think Lawrence and Williams are better pass rushers than they are space eaters.
Lawerence is more of a run stuffer, Williams does both slightly better pass rusher, my 2 cents.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Its almost like some people dont watch the Giants or something
The Giants didn’t spend a premium resource to upgrade a single offensive or defensive line position. They let a good DL in Tomlinson go and they cut a serviceable OL in Zeitler.
They then went and signed a top band corner for the 2nd consecutive year, signed a top band WR, used their first pick on a WR.
The Giants could have easily chosen to roll the dice with Yiadom, but they didn’t. They could have rolled the dice with Holmes, but looks like they aren’t.
They went bottom of the market with Shelton, near bottom of the market with Solder.
This is easy — the moment Judge walked in the door, this is a pass, stop the pass, rush the passer team.
Again, who did they spend more on than Lwilliams?
They also spent on Martinez who is better vs. the run than the pass (many, myself included, preferred Corey Littleton and Joe Schobert because they were better in coverage).
that same draft they traded up for Baker. And the year prior they took BJ Hill in the 3rd and Beal with a supplemental 3rd. Both have been priorities and neither position has been given short shrift (which is why they are probably the 2 strongest position groups on the team).
Yeh we were at the bottom of a rebuild. This means that we were at a point where we had a wealth of resources. High draft picks, extra draft picks and a flushed out cap with future space cleared out. We're hitting that pick now in terms of spend. There's going to be space but a lot of it will be focused on extending internal guys instead of going outside. It was a time where you didn't need to prioritize.
My point is, now we're getting to spot where you're needing to prioritize. They appear to be prioritizing the pass with recent moves the last 2 years. The Leonard Williams contract is a big indicator, you could have had his run production at half the cost with DT but they paid that premium because of what he brings against the pass.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Lawrence can push the pocket for sure-- LW is mainly a DT who stops the run? He had 11.5 sacks last year. That's a lot considering most of the time the "3" in the 3-4 are indeed space eaters and not the ones set up to rush the pasher as much as the "4".
I could see the Giants getting another pass rush specialist tomorrow, maybe as one of their 6th round picks. One of the versatile EDGE dudes who can line up anywhere (including inside) and rush the passer on 3rd down. There are several still on the board.
I think Graham's defense is all about asking guys to play a rather specific role and the role is based on what they personally do best. Changing up looks and packages and having specialty guys. That also strikes me as aligned w/ Judge's philosophy-- that "Do your job" Patriot-type of philosophy.
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Lawrence can push the pocket for sure-- LW is mainly a DT who stops the run? He had 11.5 sacks last year. That's a lot considering most of the time the "3" in the 3-4 are indeed space eaters and not the ones set up to rush the pasher as much as the "4".
Leonard Williams has consistently been a high-level run plugger. It's been his calling card. plugged. Pass rush has always been up in the air with him.
What's your point? You earlier suggested that the Giants don't have run stuffers on this team. They do. They have two of the best. Williams got paid because he is a superb run defender who also rushes the passer.
but happy with what I’ve read, especially Sy and some scouts who really like the kids competitiveness. We need some physical gamers on this team. I actually like Holmes but clearly this dude is a better prospect in terms of overall projection. Let’s turn this secondary into an elite one. If he’s better than Holmes in the slot, sign me up
I think the Giants just couldn’t believe he was in the board in the 3rd. At some point it’s about getting good football players. You can’t pass up talent like this.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
We already have enough of those.
Sy in his preview for what would today said he thought they’d go edge first and then possibly lb/defensive back and would hold off on ol, that the value wasn’t there...that was before a single pick was made. Mistakes are made when you force a pick at a position of need, so from that standpoint it seems the Giants did very well. Our second round pick was mocked several times to us as high as 11, our 3rd rounder was rated higher as a CB prospect by multiple sources than the guy Dallas took in round 2, and the Giants added another 2022 pick which are valued more than the picks in this draft because that draft will be much deeper. Hard to see how the Giants didn’t crush the draft for the second day in a row, I’m honestly stunned(in a good way).
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
I think Lawrence and Williams are better pass rushers than they are space eaters.
We agree! Yay!
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Danny Shelton said hi.
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
disagree -- it is both
Both is better but not realistic. You have a finite amount of resources, you will ultimately prioritized one or the other whether it's a conscious choice or not.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
they've been orienting towards both since 2019 (with Lawrence and Baker). If you count Beal Gettleman has drafted DBs on day 1 or 2 in each draft. The secondary depth they are starting to amass is something to behold though. Bradberry, Peppers, and Ryan are impact players. Jackson if healthy could make a case to be the best of the 4.
McKinney, Love, Holmes, Yiadom, and now Robinson could form a legitimately playable full second unit.
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Danny Shelton said hi.
Shelton is a non commitment in terms of resources. Leonard Williams was prioritized over the cheaper DT because of what he could do in the passing game. Dexter Lawrence was a decision made for the run but that was decision made 2 years ago and there may be a shift going on here. He's a great player though.
The Giants replaced Tomlinson with basically a vet minimum player in Shelton. And then upgraded corner with a high priced UFA.
Listing the defensive lineman doesn’t change where the Giants are allocating their resources.
Quote:
Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Danny Shelton said hi.
The Giants replaced Tomlinson with basically a vet minimum player in Shelton. And then upgraded corner with a high priced UFA.
Listing the defensive lineman doesn’t change where the Giants are allocating their resources.
I thought they spent more money on Williams than Jackson?
Quote:
Dexter Lawrence, Leonard Williams and Danny Shelton said hi.
The Giants replaced Tomlinson with basically a vet minimum player in Shelton. And then upgraded corner with a high priced UFA.
Listing the defensive lineman doesn’t change where the Giants are allocating their resources.
If you look at the 3 year resource spends DL and DB probably lead the way. Don't forget the LW trade + contract, in addition to Lawrence and BJ Hill. They've definitely put as much or more into DBs but part of that is twice as many DBs play every game as DL.
This is a solid run stopping defense that needed to add pass rushers
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
they've been orienting towards both since 2019 (with Lawrence and Baker). If you count Beal Gettleman has drafted DBs on day 1 or 2 in each draft. The secondary depth they are starting to amass is something to behold though. Bradberry, Peppers, and Ryan are impact players. Jackson if healthy could make a case to be the best of the 4.
McKinney, Love, Holmes, Yiadom, and now Robinson could form a legitimately playable full second unit.
Sure, I’m just saying the balance of investment in the last 2 years has been tilted toward the pass/coverage. Robinson, Holmes, McKinney, Bradberry, Ryan and Galloday, Rudolph, Toney.
Never said they weren’t. But do you think Williams gets that massive deal if he’s not arguably the 2nd best pass rusher at his position in the NFL?
Quote:
Reason for optimism, finally.
We agree! Yay!
Lots of people seem to care what I think about the team. That doesn't go both ways.
Sure, I’m just saying the balance of investment in the last 2 years has been tilted toward the pass/coverage. Robinson, Holmes, McKinney, Bradberry, Ryan and Galloday, Rudolph, Toney.
8-9 DB's play on Sundays which is generally 2 or 3 more than DL so it's not too surprising. More are carried on the roster so more need to be picked. Add to that that more of the DBs they have added haven't worked than the DL. Had Dexter Lawrence gotten arrested/suspended/cut or BJ Hill opted out due to C19 as Baker/Beal did they'd have had to use more resource in the last couple years.
What's not to like?
They then went and signed a top band corner for the 2nd consecutive year, signed a top band WR, used their first pick on a WR.
The Giants could have easily chosen to roll the dice with Yiadom, but they didn’t. They could have rolled the dice with Holmes, but looks like they aren’t.
They went bottom of the market with Shelton, near bottom of the market with Solder.
This is easy — the moment Judge walked in the door, this is a pass, stop the pass, rush the passer team.
Quote:
In comment 15247449 Go Terps said:
Quote:
Reason for optimism, finally.
We agree! Yay!
Lots of people seem to care what I think about the team. That doesn't go both ways.
These 2 guys (whether you like them or hate them) are clearly not reaches. This is the first time in years that BBIers have not called any of our picks "reaches."
Even if you think, as I do, that we need offense here more than defense, Robinson ("Arob?") and Azeez have the talent to get on the field THIS season and help the team.
I prefer the choice of a talented defensive player than reaching for an offensive player. Get good players this year and improve the team. Regardless of whom we pick we're not going to the Super Bowl this year.
Quote:
In comment 15247434 christian said:
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
they've been orienting towards both since 2019 (with Lawrence and Baker). If you count Beal Gettleman has drafted DBs on day 1 or 2 in each draft. The secondary depth they are starting to amass is something to behold though. Bradberry, Peppers, and Ryan are impact players. Jackson if healthy could make a case to be the best of the 4.
McKinney, Love, Holmes, Yiadom, and now Robinson could form a legitimately playable full second unit.
Sure, I’m just saying the balance of investment in the last 2 years has been tilted toward the pass/coverage. Robinson, Holmes, McKinney, Bradberry, Ryan and Galloday, Rudolph, Toney.
Maybe because they already have the guys on the team to stop the run?
They then went and signed a top band corner for the 2nd consecutive year, signed a top band WR, used their first pick on a WR.
The Giants could have easily chosen to roll the dice with Yiadom, but they didn’t. They could have rolled the dice with Holmes, but looks like they aren’t.
They went bottom of the market with Shelton, near bottom of the market with Solder.
This is easy — the moment Judge walked in the door, this is a pass, stop the pass, rush the passer team.
Again, who did they spend more on than Lwilliams?
Quote:
In comment 15247434 christian said:
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
I think Lawrence and Williams are better pass rushers than they are space eaters.
Lawerence is more of a run stuffer, Williams does both slightly better pass rusher, my 2 cents.
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Its almost like some people dont watch the Giants or something
Quote:
The Giants didn’t spend a premium resource to upgrade a single offensive or defensive line position. They let a good DL in Tomlinson go and they cut a serviceable OL in Zeitler.
They then went and signed a top band corner for the 2nd consecutive year, signed a top band WR, used their first pick on a WR.
The Giants could have easily chosen to roll the dice with Yiadom, but they didn’t. They could have rolled the dice with Holmes, but looks like they aren’t.
They went bottom of the market with Shelton, near bottom of the market with Solder.
This is easy — the moment Judge walked in the door, this is a pass, stop the pass, rush the passer team.
Again, who did they spend more on than Lwilliams?
They also spent on Martinez who is better vs. the run than the pass (many, myself included, preferred Corey Littleton and Joe Schobert because they were better in coverage).
Yeh we were at the bottom of a rebuild. This means that we were at a point where we had a wealth of resources. High draft picks, extra draft picks and a flushed out cap with future space cleared out. We're hitting that pick now in terms of spend. There's going to be space but a lot of it will be focused on extending internal guys instead of going outside. It was a time where you didn't need to prioritize.
My point is, now we're getting to spot where you're needing to prioritize. They appear to be prioritizing the pass with recent moves the last 2 years. The Leonard Williams contract is a big indicator, you could have had his run production at half the cost with DT but they paid that premium because of what he brings against the pass.
Again, do you think the Giants sniff Williams at the price if he’s a not a premium pass rusher?
I suspect you'll fade back into the woodwork after tomorrow. We'll all figure out how to survive from there.
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Lawrence can push the pocket for sure-- LW is mainly a DT who stops the run? He had 11.5 sacks last year. That's a lot considering most of the time the "3" in the 3-4 are indeed space eaters and not the ones set up to rush the pasher as much as the "4".
I think Graham's defense is all about asking guys to play a rather specific role and the role is based on what they personally do best. Changing up looks and packages and having specialty guys. That also strikes me as aligned w/ Judge's philosophy-- that "Do your job" Patriot-type of philosophy.
Quote:
In comment 15247434 christian said:
Quote:
This team is so clearly being built to throw the ball and stop the pass.
This is not a trenches, run and stop the run team.
They have 3 monsters on their DL who are meant to do just that. Shelton is a space eater who replaced Tomlinson. The DL is mainly all DTs who stop the run.
Lawrence can push the pocket for sure-- LW is mainly a DT who stops the run? He had 11.5 sacks last year. That's a lot considering most of the time the "3" in the 3-4 are indeed space eaters and not the ones set up to rush the pasher as much as the "4".
Leonard Williams has consistently been a high-level run plugger. It's been his calling card. plugged. Pass rush has always been up in the air with him.
Ok Robinson I see you! That was some good coverage against a player that people struggled to cover
day one starter - ( New Window )
Baldy could be the happiest man alive when he is reviewing good football players.