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Oline still a mess

five5 : 4/30/2021 11:01 pm
pass along a little factoid...DG was upset because both Dickerson and Banks were both gone before their picks. They got cute and didn't take Banks at 42 expecting him to be there at 50. Don't be surprised if they look to acquire an interior lineman via trade. They know they can't start the season with these 2 guards.
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A rookie swing tackle  
Bricktop : 4/30/2021 11:44 pm : link
hasn't proved "anything" - whatever the fuck that means. Holy shit. The utter jackassery is astounding.
There are several good OL still on the board  
Jay on the Island : 4/30/2021 11:45 pm : link
G Trey Smith
C Trey Hill
G Deonte Brown
OT James Hudson
G Robert Jones
G/T Alaric Jackson
Oh and I forgot  
Jay on the Island : 4/30/2021 11:47 pm : link
C Drew Dalman
RE: RE: I love how a second or first round pick was a sure thing to add top  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/30/2021 11:49 pm : link
In comment 15247572 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 15247564 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


end talent at IOL. I mean I could see banking on a first, as you probably should, but the odds are against you finding a second contract guy.



What is the downside to drafting an OL at some point? The line was awful last year and the one veteran they had was quickly picked up by the Ravens on a multi year deal (they seem to know oline talent). People who act like its ludicrous to be concerned about the o line as it stands confuse me


The line was awful in the first 4 games and than it got progressively better. It's very young and getting better. By end of year they were an above average run blocking unit and below average pass blocking unit. Competent. Do we need better talent at guard? Absolutely, but unless AVT was the guy in the first (which apparently he was) than what are the odds you are getting a plug and play guard. Why force a pick? We got Azeez in the 2nd and I know a lot of people haven't seen our cornerback play, but dude can play. The board is the board.
David Diehl was a 5th round pick.  
Del Shofner : 4/30/2021 11:52 pm : link
Shaun O'Hara went to Rutgers, wasn't even drafted by anyone.

They won Super Bowls.

Chill guys. A mix of the high and the low can get you there.
jesus christ  
Rory : 4/30/2021 11:54 pm : link
shut up.

oline is young let them grow and gel.

some of you are just way to high on your opinion.
Josh in the City  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2021 11:55 pm : link
(1) Zeitler wasn't our best starter. Not even close. It was Gates.

(2) Fulton was a starter.

So you're batting 0-for-2.
Old Blue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2021 11:56 pm : link
So your answer is to assume the second-year players suck, despite all of them showing impressive flashes. And then draft more young players. Will you abandon those next year too?
If we’re being honest  
WillVAB : 4/30/2021 11:57 pm : link
Gates is the only one to feel good about based on 2020 play. The rest are all questionable at best.

Dangerous game to play when you’ve invested so much this off-season to see what you have in Jones and make a run at the division.
RE: Josh in the City  
Old Blue : 4/30/2021 11:58 pm : link
In comment 15247659 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
(1) Zeitler wasn't our best starter. Not even close. It was Gates.

(2) Fulton was a starter.

So you're batting 0-for-2.


Gates wouldn’t be a starter on any other team, but looks good on the Giants, because everyone else isn’t.
RE: Gates wouldn’t be a starter on any other team  
Trainmaster : 5/1/2021 12:17 am : link
Have you seen the sad state of the OLs around the league?

Please list the other 31 starting centers and 62 starting guards and then tell me Gates is number 93.
Old Blue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:21 am : link
You're either a troll or ... well... there is a code of conduct here.

Gates was an amazing story last year.
RE: If we’re being honest  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:23 am : link
In comment 15247670 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Gates is the only one to feel good about based on 2020 play. The rest are all questionable at best.

Dangerous game to play when you’ve invested so much this off-season to see what you have in Jones and make a run at the division.


Wrong again. Thomas played better down the stretch. Peart wasn't even expected to play 10 snaps as a rookie but played much more than that and looked the part. Lemieux was kicking ass at times, struggling at others, but demonstrated real progress.

It's as if some of you guys never watched the Giants in the 80's, 90's, 00's and saw how an OL develops.
I find it absolutely crazy that  
tyrik13 : 5/1/2021 12:33 am : link
Because a few of the rookies looked ok at times and the not so ok, that we need to draft another 3 more OL... what the fuck you think is gonna happen with those rookies?? Lmao, this shit is hilarious we had 3 rookies playing, and a player who was essentially a rookie at a new position, how about you give them more than 1 fucking year to grow, instead of cutting bait after their rookie fucking years.. got damn some of the most idiotic individuals on this forum. What you think Sewell and Slater aren’t going to struggle? Every rookie has their share of adversity, that’s how they learn and grow. Completely dismissing a player after 1 year, having never played at the pro level is just flat out dumb. Have patience, give the kids a chance to grow and develop. Trust the teachers we have in place to help these kids.
Eric  
five5 : 5/1/2021 12:34 am : link
The OL made some strides last year. Gates was solid and the 2 tackles showed they have some ability. You can’t tell me you are not concerned about the guard spot. Hernandez regressed tremendously last year and Lemieux was awful in pass protection. The Giants know it’s an issue and they expected to draft a starter on day 2. That didn’t happen. It’s a major concern and needs to be addressed.
A healthy Saquon  
Mike in Marin : 5/1/2021 12:34 am : link
will be making this OL (and DJ) look more like they did later in the year/at the level of their best performances last year, consistently.

Less 3rd and longs to T-off on DJ and more 3rd down conversions coming with the additions of Golladay, Toney and Saquon for defenses to handle.

On paper, this offense is light years ahead of where they were last year, especially after Saquon went down. I expect a massive leap forward in talent, speed and play-making, and I won't be surprised when the OL looks dominant considering what opposing defenses have to handle now.
RE: I find it absolutely crazy that  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:35 am : link
In comment 15247728 tyrik13 said:
Quote:
Because a few of the rookies looked ok at times and the not so ok, that we need to draft another 3 more OL... what the fuck you think is gonna happen with those rookies?? Lmao, this shit is hilarious we had 3 rookies playing, and a player who was essentially a rookie at a new position, how about you give them more than 1 fucking year to grow, instead of cutting bait after their rookie fucking years.. got damn some of the most idiotic individuals on this forum. What you think Sewell and Slater aren’t going to struggle? Every rookie has their share of adversity, that’s how they learn and grow. Completely dismissing a player after 1 year, having never played at the pro level is just flat out dumb. Have patience, give the kids a chance to grow and develop. Trust the teachers we have in place to help these kids.


Plus no OTAs, no preseason. Just thrown to the wolves. Had to switch OL coach halfway through the season too.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:37 am : link
In comment 15247731 five5 said:
Quote:
The OL made some strides last year. Gates was solid and the 2 tackles showed they have some ability. You can’t tell me you are not concerned about the guard spot. Hernandez regressed tremendously last year and Lemieux was awful in pass protection. The Giants know it’s an issue and they expected to draft a starter on day 2. That didn’t happen. It’s a major concern and needs to be addressed.


I don't think Hernandez "regressed" at all last year. He played at the same up-and-down level he has since he was drafted. Lemieux took his job. That said, Hernandez still has talent and actually may be better at right guard. They signed starter Fulton as insurance.

I want an OL too. But I wanted a WR, edge player, CB as well. I also want a RB and a DT.
RE: RE: If we’re being honest  
WillVAB : 5/1/2021 12:42 am : link
In comment 15247718 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15247670 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Gates is the only one to feel good about based on 2020 play. The rest are all questionable at best.

Dangerous game to play when you’ve invested so much this off-season to see what you have in Jones and make a run at the division.



Wrong again. Thomas played better down the stretch. Peart wasn't even expected to play 10 snaps as a rookie but played much more than that and looked the part. Lemieux was kicking ass at times, struggling at others, but demonstrated real progress.

It's as if some of you guys never watched the Giants in the 80's, 90's, 00's and saw how an OL develops.


Everything you just said qualifies as questionable — somewhere between good and bad.

We honestly don’t know what these guys are gonna be in 21. That’s the point.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:43 am : link
In comment 15247731 five5 said:
Quote:
The OL made some strides last year. Gates was solid and the 2 tackles showed they have some ability. You can’t tell me you are not concerned about the guard spot. Hernandez regressed tremendously last year and Lemieux was awful in pass protection. The Giants know it’s an issue and they expected to draft a starter on day 2. That didn’t happen. It’s a major concern and needs to be addressed.


Lemieux was a rookie.

You know who was terrible in pass protection as a rookie? Jumbo Elliott. Dave Diehl. Doug, William Roberts, etc.

Rookies have growing pains. Lemieux is still one of my steals of the draft.
....  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 12:52 am : link
This is fucking hilarious. This entire site was BEGGING DG to draft OL last year and instead of signing free agents, everyone wanted him to finally invest in OL. Guess what, he took a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, one of which looked the part at LT down the stretch, the other player limited action but clearly they like a lot for RT, and the other might be a big steal in round 5 as a guard for us. Oh, and Nick Gates was an UDFA in 2018.

Now, these same fans want to abandon ship after 1 SEASON with all of the guys above playing together for...wait a minute...1 SEASON.
....  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 12:54 am : link
drafting OL just to draft OL is how we got Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, and Westin Richburg. All of these players basically did nothing for the Giants, in terms of their overall career.

In fact, even though Pugh was OK, you could argue that because he was a 1st round pick, it was even worse. He played more like a 3rd rounder.
Weston*  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 12:55 am : link
I meant to say. Who again, was described by most as a “plug and play” center/guard but was over drafted by Reese in round 2, was basically not very good, and was hurt for about 75% of his career.
RE: ....  
WillVAB : 5/1/2021 12:59 am : link
In comment 15247751 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This is fucking hilarious. This entire site was BEGGING DG to draft OL last year and instead of signing free agents, everyone wanted him to finally invest in OL. Guess what, he took a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, one of which looked the part at LT down the stretch, the other player limited action but clearly they like a lot for RT, and the other might be a big steal in round 5 as a guard for us. Oh, and Nick Gates was an UDFA in 2018.

Now, these same fans want to abandon ship after 1 SEASON with all of the guys above playing together for...wait a minute...1 SEASON.


It’s called hedging, not “abandoning ship.” They need talent to push at guard and tackle.

Besides, you can never have to much talent at one position right? That’s what Gettleman has been saying anyways.
RE: ....  
AcesUp : 5/1/2021 1:02 am : link
In comment 15247751 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This is fucking hilarious. This entire site was BEGGING DG to draft OL last year and instead of signing free agents, everyone wanted him to finally invest in OL. Guess what, he took a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, one of which looked the part at LT down the stretch, the other player limited action but clearly they like a lot for RT, and the other might be a big steal in round 5 as a guard for us. Oh, and Nick Gates was an UDFA in 2018.

Now, these same fans want to abandon ship after 1 SEASON with all of the guys above playing together for...wait a minute...1 SEASON.


There's 5 starters on that unit though and we were starting from zero. So I don't think it's outrageous to want to throw more competition on a unit where 5 guys see 100% of the snaps and we've drafted only four players over three years there, especially when Hernandez is in limbo on his last year. We're in this honeymoon phase with our second year guys where fans can't even fathom that they'll plateau or regress, which happens all the time.
Will  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 1:08 am : link
I get it, but like..OL is not the only unit on a football field. Why does it seem like people think OL is the only thing the Giants should be drafting? This roster was a mess for years. We need talent everywhere.

Taking a very solid slot corner instead of a guard means nothing to me. These guys in rounds 3-5 are all projections. Any one of them could suck or be good.

Gettleman found Nick Gates after the draft in 2018.
You guys somehow think that Matt Peart  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 1:10 am : link
is just going to suck. Guess what - clearly Judge doesn’t think so. DG doesn’t think so. He wasn’t even supposed to play last year and looked better than the veteran we signed who had a ton of experience in the NFL.
RE: Probably signing  
Optimus-NY : 5/1/2021 1:47 am : link
In comment 15247545 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
Trai Turner


That's what I believe as well.
I am surprised the owner of the site  
chopperhatch : 5/1/2021 2:01 am : link
Is engaging with Josh. He's the biggest whiner there is. He probably plays the ukulele to impress girls. (Theyre not impressed)
...  
broadbandz : 5/1/2021 2:20 am : link
oline sucked but then picked it up. You just need a avg line to compete. A lot was wrong with the offense.
Some of you "you know who you are"  
uconngiant : 5/1/2021 2:46 am : link
Just suck the life out of anything good that happens. The draft has been enjoyable to see DG finally trade back and pick up three picks for 2022 including a 1st round pick.

The Giant's filled the need of a playmaker and a slot in Toney.
Next the Giant's get a Edge who some wanted in round one and ended up being there in the second round after another trade down.
Then round three they get a cover corner who plays mean and nasty.
Of course there are other needs. I would like an interior offensive and defensive lineman and a running back. I would rather pick the BPA going forward then reaching as some on here would prefer.

Eric, sometimes I don't know how you take this BS stated on here.

Two items on OL last year to consider  
RCPhoenix : 5/1/2021 4:21 am : link
The line improved after Colombo was fired (especially Thomas)
Hernandez had covid

ok... well...  
.McL. : 5/1/2021 5:22 am : link
Count me as one wo would have liked to have seen an OL draft day 1 or 2...
That said, I love the trade down and the value we got for it... This is the type of move I have been screaming for us to do for years.
I am a little concerned about the concentration problems Toney had, and he really only did it for one season. His senior year was more productive than his first 3 combined. That said, its not a pick I am upset about.
Ojulari is steal if his knee is good.
I don't know anything about the 3rd round CB. but I didn't think the depth we had at CB was good, so it fills a need.
Overall, I feel good about this draft.
I'm not miserable. bw seemed like he liked the draft, so I don't think he is miserable. This horse hockey about some people not beaing able to be anything but miserable has to stop. You can pull that crap if people are down on the team and when they are winning and going deep in the playoffs. It's really a bad look to try and pull it off when your team is 18W and 46L over the past 4 years, and were 30-34 the 5 years prior. People are just tired of losing.
RE: Some of you  
Old Blue : 5/1/2021 5:50 am : link
In comment 15247792 uconngiant said:
Quote:
Just suck the life out of anything good that happens. The draft has been enjoyable to see DG finally trade back and pick up three picks for 2022 including a 1st round pick.

The Giant's filled the need of a playmaker and a slot in Toney.
Next the Giant's get a Edge who some wanted in round one and ended up being there in the second round after another trade down.
Then round three they get a cover corner who plays mean and nasty.
Of course there are other needs. I would like an interior offensive and defensive lineman and a running back. I would rather pick the BPA going forward then reaching as some on here would prefer.

Eric, sometimes I don't know how you take this BS stated on here.


Anything good that happens? They have had 4 losing seasons in a row, and now some on here think they have won the draft. Did they need another WR? Yes, but not as much as another O lineman.

Did they need a edge rusher? Yes, but not as much as they needed another O lineman.

Did they need another CB? Yes, but not as much as adding another O lineman.

They could use another player at every position on the team, but not as much as needing another O lineman.
RE: RE: Some of you  
Mike in NY : 5/1/2021 5:53 am : link
In comment 15247813 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15247792 uconngiant said:


Quote:


Just suck the life out of anything good that happens. The draft has been enjoyable to see DG finally trade back and pick up three picks for 2022 including a 1st round pick.

The Giant's filled the need of a playmaker and a slot in Toney.
Next the Giant's get a Edge who some wanted in round one and ended up being there in the second round after another trade down.
Then round three they get a cover corner who plays mean and nasty.
Of course there are other needs. I would like an interior offensive and defensive lineman and a running back. I would rather pick the BPA going forward then reaching as some on here would prefer.

Eric, sometimes I don't know how you take this BS stated on here.




Anything good that happens? They have had 4 losing seasons in a row, and now some on here think they have won the draft. Did they need another WR? Yes, but not as much as another O lineman.

Did they need a edge rusher? Yes, but not as much as they needed another O lineman.

Did they need another CB? Yes, but not as much as adding another O lineman.

They could use another player at every position on the team, but not as much as needing another O lineman.


What higher ranked OL did we bypass to choose who we did?
Dickerson tore his ACL late in the season  
giantBCP : 5/1/2021 7:13 am : link
In the SEC championship game. He’s not a player that would have been able to help as at the “start of the season”, because he’d still be rehabbing, so I’m not sure that this is inside information or just trolling.
RE: Some of you  
5BowlsSoon : 5/1/2021 7:21 am : link
In comment 15247792 uconngiant said:
Quote:
Just suck the life out of anything good that happens. The draft has been enjoyable to see DG finally trade back and pick up three picks for 2022 including a 1st round pick.

The Giant's filled the need of a playmaker and a slot in Toney.
Next the Giant's get a Edge who some wanted in round one and ended up being there in the second round after another trade down.
Then round three they get a cover corner who plays mean and nasty.
Of course there are other needs. I would like an interior offensive and defensive lineman and a running back. I would rather pick the BPA going forward then reaching as some on here would prefer.

Eric, sometimes I don't know how you take this BS stated on here.


Uconn,
Your post should be mandatory reading for everyone who logs in here both today and tomorrow. Well said, brother. In this we are one.
The OL has been a mess going on 10 seasons  
jeff57 : 5/1/2021 7:36 am : link
But some of you shout down anyone who says it still is. OT that there’s no need for replacements. Then after a couple hours f games, everyone’s back to saying how we need to fix the OL. It’s like Groundhog Day.
RE: The OL has been a mess going on 10 seasons  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 7:41 am : link
In comment 15247852 jeff57 said:
Quote:
But some of you shout down anyone who says it still is. OT that there’s no need for replacements. Then after a couple hours f games, everyone’s back to saying how we need to fix the OL. It’s like Groundhog Day.

Again, we drafted OL in three straight seasons from 2013-2015 in the first and second rounds. We reached for all of them. And it backfired immensely.
RE: RE: The OL has been a mess going on 10 seasons  
jeff57 : 5/1/2021 7:43 am : link
In comment 15247858 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
In comment 15247852 jeff57 said:


Quote:


But some of you shout down anyone who says it still is. OT that there’s no need for replacements. Then after a couple hours f games, everyone’s back to saying how we need to fix the OL. It’s like Groundhog Day.


Again, we drafted OL in three straight seasons from 2013-2015 in the first and second rounds. We reached for all of them. And it backfired immensely.


So you’re saying we shouldn’t draft OL?
Listen to Duke Mayweather, who knows as much about OLine as anyone  
edavisiii : 5/1/2021 7:46 am : link
"The giants don't need more young players, they need to develop the ones they got! these guys are not robots, they are people and the pandemic had a huge effect, in a negative way, as far as developing talent. OL requires the most hours of practice and it was not there. Some of you guys need to go volunteer for your local HS Football team and see how long it takes to get a HS Line to work in sync.
Throw in the revolving OLine coach situation and the GMen did pretty well advancing these players as much as they could. If you keep drafting OLs and you don't develop them you will always suck.
RE: RE: RE: The OL has been a mess going on 10 seasons  
Mike in NY : 5/1/2021 8:04 am : link
In comment 15247861 jeff57 said:
Quote:
In comment 15247858 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


In comment 15247852 jeff57 said:


Quote:


But some of you shout down anyone who says it still is. OT that there’s no need for replacements. Then after a couple hours f games, everyone’s back to saying how we need to fix the OL. It’s like Groundhog Day.


Again, we drafted OL in three straight seasons from 2013-2015 in the first and second rounds. We reached for all of them. And it backfired immensely.



So you’re saying we shouldn’t draft OL?


No. Only that we shouldn’t reach to fill the position.
RE: The OL has been a mess going on 10 seasons  
Jerry's Kids : 5/1/2021 8:37 am : link
In comment 15247852 jeff57 said:
Quote:
But some of you shout down anyone who says it still is. OT that there’s no need for replacements. Then after a couple hours f games, everyone’s back to saying how we need to fix the OL. It’s like Groundhog Day.


Haha, that’s me after a sack in the first drive each year. I don’t know what’s worse the sky is falling crowd or those shouting them down.

Look you can vent totally understandable or you can believe in the guys they got. They will keep adding pieces, they spent three picks last year on OL.

I love the draft we’ve had so far. Am I concerned about the O-line? Always, I would have preferred they took one last round, but I’m hopeful the Rookies will improve and gel.
It looks like judge taught Gettleman how to draft  
Debaser : 5/1/2021 11:23 am : link
You really can look at this both ways. It is a wide receiver heavy draft class so it makes sense to pick one up there considering that is a definite need. However o line needs work let’s not kid ourselves. The main problem is Gettleman’s moves and really coming back to haunt him.

He could have had a coach to keep Odell’s ass in check. He could have drafted a lineman instead of Barkley. Having said that I find a few comments on here pretty Amusing. While I agree it would be easier to develop talent on the online and that seems more likely than expecting Golden Tate to get younger; Gettleman has grossly miscalculated talent and the ability to develop them. I mean the defense from 2 seasons ago ; cost Eli his job. Not to mention Daniel jones. Also Saquon helpingnthe Oline? How?
For sports fans who judge players by their rookie seasons,  
CT Charlie : 5/1/2021 11:37 am : link
take a look at R.J. Barrett of the N.Y. Knicks.
RE: RE: Josh in the City  
Brown_Hornet : 5/1/2021 11:42 am : link
In comment 15247673 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15247659 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


(1) Zeitler wasn't our best starter. Not even close. It was Gates.

(2) Fulton was a starter.

So you're batting 0-for-2.



Gates wouldn’t be a starter on any other team, but looks good on the Giants, because everyone else isn’t.
Thats not how it works.
Probably going to add some bodies to OL  
NYGgolfer : 5/1/2021 11:45 am : link
right here early on day 3. Some others keep mentioning Trai Turner as a free agent the Giants have been speaking with.

Still plenty of things to play out here with the line.
I kind have agree on Gates  
Debaser : 5/1/2021 11:48 am : link
He looks good on the Giants because they were bad. I mean the Eagles game with somone in Daniel jones face like every down not an exaggeration . Not to mention I am not expecting much more from Gates ; he could be a lot of effort but not a lot of skill
Help me understand...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/1/2021 11:54 am : link
... Offensive lineman can good simply because those around him are not?

He's either doing his job or he's not it's not like he's getting more touches and so his stats are inflated.

Just because something sounds good when somebody else says it does not mean it's in anyway accurate.
I remember about 2006 or so  
DSPCSP : 5/1/2021 2:10 pm : link
Joe Theismann on a broadcast commentinng on how bad the Giants O-line was. Couldn't say enough bad things about them. Funny thing happened the following year: The young line jelled, came together and the Giants won theSuper Bowl. Give the young men a chance and also give the coaches some credit.
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