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Oline still a mess

five5 : 4/30/2021 11:01 pm
pass along a little factoid...DG was upset because both Dickerson and Banks were both gone before their picks. They got cute and didn't take Banks at 42 expecting him to be there at 50. Don't be surprised if they look to acquire an interior lineman via trade. They know they can't start the season with these 2 guards.
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Probably signing  
eric2425ny : 4/30/2021 11:02 pm : link
Trai Turner
There is still 3 more picks....  
Joe in CT : 4/30/2021 11:08 pm : link
with the way we are drafting now I am sure we can find a good IOL to compete with what we already have on the roster.
I love how a second or first round pick was a sure thing to add top  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/30/2021 11:11 pm : link
end talent at IOL. I mean I could see banking on a first, as you probably should, but the odds are against you finding a second contract guy.
RE: There is still 3 more picks....  
Old Blue : 4/30/2021 11:12 pm : link
In comment 15247560 Joe in CT said:
Quote:
with the way we are drafting now I am sure we can find a good IOL to compete with what we already have on the roster.


We don’t need someone to compete with what we have, which isn’t much. We need replacements for what we have.
Hernandez was a high DG pick  
averagejoe : 4/30/2021 11:12 pm : link
that has busted and needs to be replaced. Was hoping for one of the premium guys but now a trade or signing is likely.
RE: I love how a second or first round pick was a sure thing to add top  
Ned In Atlanta : 4/30/2021 11:13 pm : link
In comment 15247564 Zeke's Alibi said:
Quote:
end talent at IOL. I mean I could see banking on a first, as you probably should, but the odds are against you finding a second contract guy.


What is the downside to drafting an OL at some point? The line was awful last year and the one veteran they had was quickly picked up by the Ravens on a multi year deal (they seem to know oline talent). People who act like its ludicrous to be concerned about the o line as it stands confuse me
No  
fireitup77 : 4/30/2021 11:14 pm : link
It's not. It's young but not a mess.

I find it amusing that people think drafting one online in the third round is going to"fix" an issue that doesn't exist.

Let the kids play and improve. This oline is going to surprise you this season.
RE: No  
Old Blue : 4/30/2021 11:19 pm : link
In comment 15247575 fireitup77 said:
Quote:
It's not. It's young but not a mess.

I find it amusing that people think drafting one online in the third round is going to"fix" an issue that doesn't exist.

Let the kids play and improve. This oline is going to surprise you this season.


You must want a 5 year losing streak to want to play this O line as is.
Again as it has been said  
OBJ_AllDay : 4/30/2021 11:25 pm : link
We took 2 studs in the first 2 rounds, do u think passing on OK in a third round was a make or break? Team had holes all over and filled ass except the line. Which btw Gallman was humming behind to end the year
Yes, it is a mess.  
Since1965 : 4/30/2021 11:26 pm : link
Their pass blocking was atrocious last year. I can see letting the younger guys compete for one guard spot, but not two. They need a difference maker at guard if they want a functional offense. And we're also assuming that Thomas and Peart will take significant steps forward as well. All the offensive weapons will mean nothing if Jones is on his back or running for his life on every pass play. A substantial upgrade is needed. I hope a trade or free agent signing will follow soon. I'm tired of a shitty offensive line making our offense dysfunctional.
RE: Again as it has been said  
Old Blue : 4/30/2021 11:27 pm : link
In comment 15247599 OBJ_AllDay said:
Quote:
We took 2 studs in the first 2 rounds, do u think passing on OK in a third round was a make or break? Team had holes all over and filled ass except the line. Which btw Gallman was humming behind to end the year


The O line was the MOST important thing to fix, and instead has gotten worse.
RE: Yes, it is a mess.  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2021 11:29 pm : link
In comment 15247604 Since1965 said:
Quote:
Their pass blocking was atrocious last year. I can see letting the younger guys compete for one guard spot, but not two. They need a difference maker at guard if they want a functional offense. And we're also assuming that Thomas and Peart will take significant steps forward as well. All the offensive weapons will mean nothing if Jones is on his back or running for his life on every pass play. A substantial upgrade is needed. I hope a trade or free agent signing will follow soon. I'm tired of a shitty offensive line making our offense dysfunctional.


You lost me at "they need a difference maker at guard."

WTF is a difference maker at guard?

They need competent offensive linemen. They have Solder as a back-up tackle, Harrison as a back-up center, and Fulton to keep at guard. These are all vets who have started in the NFL.
Tge  
thomasa510 : 4/30/2021 11:29 pm : link
The o-line needs the young players to step up.

Lots of talent and high draft picks on the line. Need to gel and fill info their roles.
RE: RE: Again as it has been said  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2021 11:30 pm : link
In comment 15247606 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15247599 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


We took 2 studs in the first 2 rounds, do u think passing on OK in a third round was a make or break? Team had holes all over and filled ass except the line. Which btw Gallman was humming behind to end the year



The O line was the MOST important thing to fix, and instead has gotten worse.


How has it gotten worse?

I think what we have here are a bunch of fans who were convinced the team would go OL on Day 1 or Day 2, and now have egg on their faces so they are lashing out.
Relax...  
Breeze_94 : 4/30/2021 11:30 pm : link
Thomas was the fourth overall pick

Lemieux was a shot in the arm in the running game, needs some seasoning when it comes to assignments in the pass pro

Gates came on at the end of the year and was playing above average ball at the end of the year. Not bad for a guy who had never played center

Hernandez has the ability to be serviceable at the very least

Peart has all the tools needed and the staff is high on him

Solder, Fulton are veteran depth

3 more draft picks left, Trai Turner still available etc
RE: RE: Again as it has been said  
Bricktop : 4/30/2021 11:34 pm : link
In comment 15247606 Old Blue said:
Quote:
In comment 15247599 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


We took 2 studs in the first 2 rounds, do u think passing on OK in a third round was a make or break? Team had holes all over and filled ass except the line. Which btw Gallman was humming behind to end the year



The O line was the MOST important thing to fix, and instead has gotten worse.


You keep spouting nonsense with absolutely nothing to back it up.

Gotten worse, how? Explain it.

Second time I've asked. And be specific. For those of us not so well-ingrained with OL knowledge as yourself.

I can't wait.
The OL can be a problem  
AcesUp : 4/30/2021 11:35 pm : link
I don't know about the sky is falling vibe of the thread or how sure-fire a 2nd round pick would fortify that unit but it can sink us and our 3rd year QB for sure. There's a lot riding on our younger vets there.
define...  
Brown_Hornet : 4/30/2021 11:35 pm : link
....factoid.

Otherwise, we have nothing more than the simple emotions of a fan-boy.
RE: RE: RE: Again as it has been said  
Josh in the City : 4/30/2021 11:35 pm : link
In comment 15247617 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15247606 Old Blue said:


Quote:


In comment 15247599 OBJ_AllDay said:


Quote:


We took 2 studs in the first 2 rounds, do u think passing on OK in a third round was a make or break? Team had holes all over and filled ass except the line. Which btw Gallman was humming behind to end the year



The O line was the MOST important thing to fix, and instead has gotten worse.



How has it gotten worse?

I think what we have here are a bunch of fans who were convinced the team would go OL on Day 1 or Day 2, and now have egg on their faces so they are lashing out.

You can’t be serious. We cut our best offensive lineman, didn’t bring in a single starter, and you’re asking how we got worse?!
RE: Relax...  
Old Blue : 4/30/2021 11:38 pm : link
In comment 15247618 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Thomas was the fourth overall pick

Lemieux was a shot in the arm in the running game, needs some seasoning when it comes to assignments in the pass pro

Gates came on at the end of the year and was playing above average ball at the end of the year. Not bad for a guy who had never played center

Hernandez has the ability to be serviceable at the very least

Peart has all the tools needed and the staff is high on him

Solder, Fulton are veteran depth

3 more draft picks left, Trai Turner still available etc


People keep saying that because Thomas was a #4 pick that it means he is good, and it doesn’t.

SL, and WH are nothing but backups, and Peart hasn’t done, or proven anything either.
Giants went into Day 2  
five5 : 4/30/2021 11:42 pm : link
wanting to take an IOL who was going to start for them this year. They realize that unit needs to get better so their skill guys can make plays. We need to score more points. Period. At this point in the draft (and they know this), any pick is a crapshoot. They wanted either Dickerson (Eagles again) or Banks. Those are the 2 guys they really liked and wanted. If/when they take a guard in round 4, I am sure folks on this site will think he is the next Larry Allen. We certainly filled some holes with our 1st 3 picks but the most important unit still needs a significant upgrade at one of the guard positions. Until that happens, we are still going to run the football consistently and protect Jones in key spots.
Don’t forget  
5BowlsSoon : 4/30/2021 11:43 pm : link
Kyle Murphy, Guard

I believe Gmen gave him the biggest signing bonus last year as a UDFA. I hear they are high on him too.

Fulton, Murphy, Lemieux, Hernandez.....we should be okay, I think
A rookie swing tackle  
Bricktop : 4/30/2021 11:44 pm : link
hasn't proved "anything" - whatever the fuck that means. Holy shit. The utter jackassery is astounding.
There are several good OL still on the board  
Jay on the Island : 4/30/2021 11:45 pm : link
G Trey Smith
C Trey Hill
G Deonte Brown
OT James Hudson
G Robert Jones
G/T Alaric Jackson
Oh and I forgot  
Jay on the Island : 4/30/2021 11:47 pm : link
C Drew Dalman
RE: RE: I love how a second or first round pick was a sure thing to add top  
Zeke's Alibi : 4/30/2021 11:49 pm : link
In comment 15247572 Ned In Atlanta said:
Quote:
In comment 15247564 Zeke's Alibi said:


Quote:


end talent at IOL. I mean I could see banking on a first, as you probably should, but the odds are against you finding a second contract guy.



What is the downside to drafting an OL at some point? The line was awful last year and the one veteran they had was quickly picked up by the Ravens on a multi year deal (they seem to know oline talent). People who act like its ludicrous to be concerned about the o line as it stands confuse me


The line was awful in the first 4 games and than it got progressively better. It's very young and getting better. By end of year they were an above average run blocking unit and below average pass blocking unit. Competent. Do we need better talent at guard? Absolutely, but unless AVT was the guy in the first (which apparently he was) than what are the odds you are getting a plug and play guard. Why force a pick? We got Azeez in the 2nd and I know a lot of people haven't seen our cornerback play, but dude can play. The board is the board.
David Diehl was a 5th round pick.  
Del Shofner : 4/30/2021 11:52 pm : link
Shaun O'Hara went to Rutgers, wasn't even drafted by anyone.

They won Super Bowls.

Chill guys. A mix of the high and the low can get you there.
jesus christ  
Rory : 4/30/2021 11:54 pm : link
shut up.

oline is young let them grow and gel.

some of you are just way to high on your opinion.
Josh in the City  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2021 11:55 pm : link
(1) Zeitler wasn't our best starter. Not even close. It was Gates.

(2) Fulton was a starter.

So you're batting 0-for-2.
Old Blue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 4/30/2021 11:56 pm : link
So your answer is to assume the second-year players suck, despite all of them showing impressive flashes. And then draft more young players. Will you abandon those next year too?
If we’re being honest  
WillVAB : 4/30/2021 11:57 pm : link
Gates is the only one to feel good about based on 2020 play. The rest are all questionable at best.

Dangerous game to play when you’ve invested so much this off-season to see what you have in Jones and make a run at the division.
RE: Josh in the City  
Old Blue : 4/30/2021 11:58 pm : link
In comment 15247659 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
(1) Zeitler wasn't our best starter. Not even close. It was Gates.

(2) Fulton was a starter.

So you're batting 0-for-2.


Gates wouldn’t be a starter on any other team, but looks good on the Giants, because everyone else isn’t.
RE: Gates wouldn’t be a starter on any other team  
Trainmaster : 5/1/2021 12:17 am : link
Have you seen the sad state of the OLs around the league?

Please list the other 31 starting centers and 62 starting guards and then tell me Gates is number 93.
Old Blue  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:21 am : link
You're either a troll or ... well... there is a code of conduct here.

Gates was an amazing story last year.
RE: If we’re being honest  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:23 am : link
In comment 15247670 WillVAB said:
Quote:
Gates is the only one to feel good about based on 2020 play. The rest are all questionable at best.

Dangerous game to play when you’ve invested so much this off-season to see what you have in Jones and make a run at the division.


Wrong again. Thomas played better down the stretch. Peart wasn't even expected to play 10 snaps as a rookie but played much more than that and looked the part. Lemieux was kicking ass at times, struggling at others, but demonstrated real progress.

It's as if some of you guys never watched the Giants in the 80's, 90's, 00's and saw how an OL develops.
I find it absolutely crazy that  
tyrik13 : 5/1/2021 12:33 am : link
Because a few of the rookies looked ok at times and the not so ok, that we need to draft another 3 more OL... what the fuck you think is gonna happen with those rookies?? Lmao, this shit is hilarious we had 3 rookies playing, and a player who was essentially a rookie at a new position, how about you give them more than 1 fucking year to grow, instead of cutting bait after their rookie fucking years.. got damn some of the most idiotic individuals on this forum. What you think Sewell and Slater aren’t going to struggle? Every rookie has their share of adversity, that’s how they learn and grow. Completely dismissing a player after 1 year, having never played at the pro level is just flat out dumb. Have patience, give the kids a chance to grow and develop. Trust the teachers we have in place to help these kids.
Eric  
five5 : 5/1/2021 12:34 am : link
The OL made some strides last year. Gates was solid and the 2 tackles showed they have some ability. You can’t tell me you are not concerned about the guard spot. Hernandez regressed tremendously last year and Lemieux was awful in pass protection. The Giants know it’s an issue and they expected to draft a starter on day 2. That didn’t happen. It’s a major concern and needs to be addressed.
A healthy Saquon  
Mike in Marin : 5/1/2021 12:34 am : link
will be making this OL (and DJ) look more like they did later in the year/at the level of their best performances last year, consistently.

Less 3rd and longs to T-off on DJ and more 3rd down conversions coming with the additions of Golladay, Toney and Saquon for defenses to handle.

On paper, this offense is light years ahead of where they were last year, especially after Saquon went down. I expect a massive leap forward in talent, speed and play-making, and I won't be surprised when the OL looks dominant considering what opposing defenses have to handle now.
RE: I find it absolutely crazy that  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:35 am : link
In comment 15247728 tyrik13 said:
Quote:
Because a few of the rookies looked ok at times and the not so ok, that we need to draft another 3 more OL... what the fuck you think is gonna happen with those rookies?? Lmao, this shit is hilarious we had 3 rookies playing, and a player who was essentially a rookie at a new position, how about you give them more than 1 fucking year to grow, instead of cutting bait after their rookie fucking years.. got damn some of the most idiotic individuals on this forum. What you think Sewell and Slater aren’t going to struggle? Every rookie has their share of adversity, that’s how they learn and grow. Completely dismissing a player after 1 year, having never played at the pro level is just flat out dumb. Have patience, give the kids a chance to grow and develop. Trust the teachers we have in place to help these kids.


Plus no OTAs, no preseason. Just thrown to the wolves. Had to switch OL coach halfway through the season too.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:37 am : link
In comment 15247731 five5 said:
Quote:
The OL made some strides last year. Gates was solid and the 2 tackles showed they have some ability. You can’t tell me you are not concerned about the guard spot. Hernandez regressed tremendously last year and Lemieux was awful in pass protection. The Giants know it’s an issue and they expected to draft a starter on day 2. That didn’t happen. It’s a major concern and needs to be addressed.


I don't think Hernandez "regressed" at all last year. He played at the same up-and-down level he has since he was drafted. Lemieux took his job. That said, Hernandez still has talent and actually may be better at right guard. They signed starter Fulton as insurance.

I want an OL too. But I wanted a WR, edge player, CB as well. I also want a RB and a DT.
RE: RE: If we’re being honest  
WillVAB : 5/1/2021 12:42 am : link
In comment 15247718 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15247670 WillVAB said:


Quote:


Gates is the only one to feel good about based on 2020 play. The rest are all questionable at best.

Dangerous game to play when you’ve invested so much this off-season to see what you have in Jones and make a run at the division.



Wrong again. Thomas played better down the stretch. Peart wasn't even expected to play 10 snaps as a rookie but played much more than that and looked the part. Lemieux was kicking ass at times, struggling at others, but demonstrated real progress.

It's as if some of you guys never watched the Giants in the 80's, 90's, 00's and saw how an OL develops.


Everything you just said qualifies as questionable — somewhere between good and bad.

We honestly don’t know what these guys are gonna be in 21. That’s the point.
RE: Eric  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/1/2021 12:43 am : link
In comment 15247731 five5 said:
Quote:
The OL made some strides last year. Gates was solid and the 2 tackles showed they have some ability. You can’t tell me you are not concerned about the guard spot. Hernandez regressed tremendously last year and Lemieux was awful in pass protection. The Giants know it’s an issue and they expected to draft a starter on day 2. That didn’t happen. It’s a major concern and needs to be addressed.


Lemieux was a rookie.

You know who was terrible in pass protection as a rookie? Jumbo Elliott. Dave Diehl. Doug, William Roberts, etc.

Rookies have growing pains. Lemieux is still one of my steals of the draft.
....  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 12:52 am : link
This is fucking hilarious. This entire site was BEGGING DG to draft OL last year and instead of signing free agents, everyone wanted him to finally invest in OL. Guess what, he took a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, one of which looked the part at LT down the stretch, the other player limited action but clearly they like a lot for RT, and the other might be a big steal in round 5 as a guard for us. Oh, and Nick Gates was an UDFA in 2018.

Now, these same fans want to abandon ship after 1 SEASON with all of the guys above playing together for...wait a minute...1 SEASON.
....  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 12:54 am : link
drafting OL just to draft OL is how we got Ereck Flowers, Justin Pugh, and Westin Richburg. All of these players basically did nothing for the Giants, in terms of their overall career.

In fact, even though Pugh was OK, you could argue that because he was a 1st round pick, it was even worse. He played more like a 3rd rounder.
Weston*  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 12:55 am : link
I meant to say. Who again, was described by most as a “plug and play” center/guard but was over drafted by Reese in round 2, was basically not very good, and was hurt for about 75% of his career.
RE: ....  
WillVAB : 5/1/2021 12:59 am : link
In comment 15247751 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This is fucking hilarious. This entire site was BEGGING DG to draft OL last year and instead of signing free agents, everyone wanted him to finally invest in OL. Guess what, he took a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, one of which looked the part at LT down the stretch, the other player limited action but clearly they like a lot for RT, and the other might be a big steal in round 5 as a guard for us. Oh, and Nick Gates was an UDFA in 2018.

Now, these same fans want to abandon ship after 1 SEASON with all of the guys above playing together for...wait a minute...1 SEASON.


It’s called hedging, not “abandoning ship.” They need talent to push at guard and tackle.

Besides, you can never have to much talent at one position right? That’s what Gettleman has been saying anyways.
RE: ....  
AcesUp : 5/1/2021 1:02 am : link
In comment 15247751 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
This is fucking hilarious. This entire site was BEGGING DG to draft OL last year and instead of signing free agents, everyone wanted him to finally invest in OL. Guess what, he took a 1st, 3rd, and 5th, one of which looked the part at LT down the stretch, the other player limited action but clearly they like a lot for RT, and the other might be a big steal in round 5 as a guard for us. Oh, and Nick Gates was an UDFA in 2018.

Now, these same fans want to abandon ship after 1 SEASON with all of the guys above playing together for...wait a minute...1 SEASON.


There's 5 starters on that unit though and we were starting from zero. So I don't think it's outrageous to want to throw more competition on a unit where 5 guys see 100% of the snaps and we've drafted only four players over three years there, especially when Hernandez is in limbo on his last year. We're in this honeymoon phase with our second year guys where fans can't even fathom that they'll plateau or regress, which happens all the time.
Will  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 1:08 am : link
I get it, but like..OL is not the only unit on a football field. Why does it seem like people think OL is the only thing the Giants should be drafting? This roster was a mess for years. We need talent everywhere.

Taking a very solid slot corner instead of a guard means nothing to me. These guys in rounds 3-5 are all projections. Any one of them could suck or be good.

Gettleman found Nick Gates after the draft in 2018.
You guys somehow think that Matt Peart  
ryanmkeane : 5/1/2021 1:10 am : link
is just going to suck. Guess what - clearly Judge doesn’t think so. DG doesn’t think so. He wasn’t even supposed to play last year and looked better than the veteran we signed who had a ton of experience in the NFL.
RE: Probably signing  
Optimus-NY : 5/1/2021 1:47 am : link
In comment 15247545 eric2425ny said:
Quote:
Trai Turner


That's what I believe as well.
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