Grade the New York Giants 2021 NFL Draft

of the day three guys. It makes sense why they were drafted. You see the mentality they have. They seem to fit what Judge wants. At first I wasn't crazy about the Arizona RB but he is a no nonsense guy that LOVES special teams and will do whatever is in the best interest of the team. He grew on me.

But I think this is the happiest I have been for a draft since 2004.

During Giants Bears trade A+
Drafting Toney over edge B
Drafting Azeez A++
Screwing Eagles with Robinson A+
Dysfunction in Eagle draft room Priceless

not just because of the players, but because of the way they handles the draft making trades to acquire future assets, using assets acquired to get players they had targeted.

The Giants IMO are working completely differently these last two drafts, and it seems to me they are setting themselves up to be a more modern, more competent organization going forward.

There's two things EVERY organization has to get right. HC and QB. Hopefully, we have both.

In comment 15249982 blueblood said:

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not just because of the players, but because of the way they handles the draft making trades to acquire future assets, using assets acquired to get players they had targeted. The Giants IMO are working completely differently these last two drafts, and it seems to me they are setting themselves up to be a more modern, more competent organization going forward.

Agree 100% - didn’t panic at 11 and were prepared to be nimble and take advantage of the Bears desperation and a relatively flat talent pool (except QBs) to make some smart moves. I like that they went for a high upside player in Toney. They have confidence they can coach him up to be a high impact player with a skill set we currently lack.

But I like it based on what I think they are doing. I didn’t love the Toney pick, but if they can use him creatively he could keep defenses off balance. If they are typically lining him up in the slot and having him run routes, I don’t see much of a game changer.

I liked the Ojulari and Robinson picks. After that it is hard to get excited or disappointed as you are most likely getting special teams players and bottom of the roster competition.

What makes the draft a big success in my mind is the picks they acquired. They are set up to add difference makers next year, including the possibility to get a QB if necessary (although I am sure that was not DG’s intention).

Overall, it was a very successful draft and I liked it. But only time will tell if the players they picked were the right ones.

In comment 15249982 blueblood said:

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not just because of the players, but because of the way they handles the draft making trades to acquire future assets, using assets acquired to get players they had targeted. The Giants IMO are working completely differently these last two drafts, and it seems to me they are setting themselves up to be a more modern, more competent organization going forward.

Agree 100% - didn’t panic at 11 and were prepared to be nimble and take advantage of the Bears desperation and a relatively flat talent pool (except QBs) to make some smart moves. I like that they went for a high upside player in Toney. They have confidence they can coach him up to be a high impact player with a skill set we currently lack.

In comment 15249982 blueblood said:

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not just because of the players, but because of the way they handles the draft making trades to acquire future assets, using assets acquired to get players they had targeted. The Giants IMO are working completely differently these last two drafts, and it seems to me they are setting themselves up to be a more modern, more competent organization going forward.

Agree 100% - didn’t panic at 11 and were prepared to be nimble and take advantage of the Bears desperation and a relatively flat talent pool (except QBs) to make some smart moves. I like that they went for a high upside player in Toney. They have confidence they can coach him up to be a high impact player with a skill set we currently lack.

on day 1 and day 2. I really feel they killed providing the extra picks for 2022. The CB in the 3rd I feel sent a nice message to DAL and PHI, bet he was on both their boards as both teams needed CB help more desperately then we did.

My only issue was in the 6th round, if we felt Barnwell was a huge asset for STs but not someone we could really count on as change of pace RB then why not double dip. Herbert was still on the board. SY had a nice grade on him, as did many other draft gurus who felt he was quality "sleeper" in the draft. He can run with more wiggle and speed for sure. Now it's probably safe to say he adds no game for ST's but as a pure RB he could added a nice element to join SB, Booker, and Barnwell.

Minor complaint but all in all I am elated and on paper this has to go down as atleast an A- draft.

I'm not crazy about the 2 6th round picks, but I don't give picks at the end of the draft much weight. I like picks 1-4 a lot and love the trades.

since it now has been 3 years?

are appropriate. Because of the additional 2022 choices, though, I'll go with Pass, with a strong possibility of Honors.

In comment 15249998 chick310 said:

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since it now has been 3 years?

Hasn’t the ‘18 draft been beaten to death around here? We get it. It was a massive fail.

You are such a miserable fuck. How do you even get out of bed each day? Holy shit. We can’t enjoy the moment. Nope. Let’s revisit 2018 to bring back the misery! Yay!

I would give the Giants an A-/B+ for this draft because they pulled off the extra rd 1 pick next year, and Toney is imv a lower ranked prospect.

But we should readdress that in 3 years.

Gettleman and company shone through when things don’t go as planned.

A minus…. Well done

have at least taken an O lineman in the later rounds.

2022 is going to be a very interesting draft for the GMEN. With 2-1st, 1-2nd, 3-3rds, 2-4ths, they will have a lot of flexibility (and medicine if needed). Say what you want about DG and some of his picks, but he has really positioned this team well to build/replenish through the draft with good young talent. Depending on the team needs, D.Jones' development,and how good/bad the Bears 1st will be, he could pull similar moves in 2022 to gain more future draft collateral.
Future picks - ( New Window )

Actually, it's probably too early to grade 2018.

Barkley still could end up being the best back in the NFL.
My guess is Hernandez is our starting guard again this year.
Lorenzo Carter still could start this year depending on his rehab.
B.J. Hill will likely start this year.
R.J. McIntosh is still on the roster.

The only pick not on the team is Lauletta and he keeps bouncing around the NFL.

Based on the players they drafted, I’m going A- l agree in round 6 you’d think they would have found a way to get at least one OL.

Considering the 2021 players drafted AND the additional 2022 picks, an A+

I did like the trade back in Round 1, but I question the return from trading down from 42 to 50. Considering how picks are valued it was the equivalent of about a 4th Round pick in this draft. If you consider it equivalent to a high 2021 4th because of the expected pool and full scouting, that is still not enough to go down 8 picks in Round 2. Cincy got 2 4’s to trade down 8 spots, SF got 1 to trade down 5 spots. At 42 we could have boosted our OL with Liam Eichenberg. I also question the selection of Toney because I don’t trust Garrett to be able to deploy him properly. He may have been BPA, but if you don’t have the staff to reach that what is the point?

and a UDFA OL is minimal IMO. They got two OL UDFA.

they went into the draft with 2036 value points. This years picks are valued at something like 1720 according to GBN’s big board, around 1900 on Sy’s grades list. The future picks they banked, minimum, 726. That’s if Bears beat Dolphins in Super Bowl. If Bears have worst record, it could go as high as 3362.
How is that not an A+?
Only complaint, trade some of that future capital for an OL pick this year.

Have to downgrade due to lack of OL. They really needed come out of this draft with an insurance policy given the other investments on the offensive side even if they’re optimistic about the current group.

Otherwise great draft all things considered.

on paper

In comment 15249992 Kidprince said:

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In comment 15249982 blueblood said: Quote: not just because of the players, but because of the way they handles the draft making trades to acquire future assets, using assets acquired to get players they had targeted. The Giants IMO are working completely differently these last two drafts, and it seems to me they are setting themselves up to be a more modern, more competent organization going forward. Agree 100% - didn’t panic at 11 and were prepared to be nimble and take advantage of the Bears desperation and a relatively flat talent pool (except QBs) to make some smart moves. I like that they went for a high upside player in Toney. They have confidence they can coach him up to be a high impact player with a skill set we currently lack.

I dont think they panicked because of what they said repeatedly. They were prepared through their draft meetings and multiple what if scenarios. Gettleman said they had conversations with the Bears leading up to the draft. Im sure they were disappointed that Smith who was high on their board was gone.. but im pretty sure is a schlub like me sitting at home was hearing that the Eagles were looking to trade up for a playmaker the Giants SURELY knew..

....I actually didn’t love the Toney pick. Love that they got a 1st, 3rd, and 4th for next year. Great stuff, Bears pick could legitimately be in the top 10

Completely understand why they didn’t go OL, would have been nice to bring someone in for competition so that’s a bit frustrating. I think Robinson will turn out to be a great pick. Ojulari and Elerson would be “upside” type picks and might not be huge contributors in 2021, which might have fans a bit on edge, no pun intended.

Since the Giants did not improve the OL in free agency, the assumption was that it would be improved in the draft. I understand the logic of taking the best player in every round and I normally agree with that especially with premium picks. I also wholeheartedly support the trading back and don’t have a problem with deferring picks until next year. Nevertheless, the fact remains that we are relying on the following: Hernandez, Lemioux and Peart will be at least adequate. What are the odds all 3 will? I’m tired of hearing Hernandez had Covid. He was bad well before that. Also, Fulton has not played well in 2 years. If Peart is not adequate, Solder has not played RT since he was a rookie, did not play last year which at his age is problematic and stunk at LT the year before. To my knowledge, none of us have seem Murphy play against NFL quality starters.

We have a new Oline coach who looks good but last year at this time, people here were swooning over Colombo.

So, the draft itself looks great, one of the best in years and certainly the best since Gettleman took over. But, sometimes its what you didn’t do that counts. Maybe there’s money to find and sign a veteran to help. I hope so.

In comment 15250020 Pepe LePugh said:

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they went into the draft with 2036 value points. This years picks are valued at something like 1720 according to GBN’s big board, around 1900 on Sy’s grades list. The future picks they banked, minimum, 726. That’s if Bears beat Dolphins in Super Bowl. If Bears have worst record, it could go as high as 3362. How is that not an A+? Only complaint, trade some of that future capital for an OL pick this year.

It’s not an A+ because the point of the draft is to improve your team, not your draft chart point value. I’m surprised that has to be said.

If these players fulfill their potential then it is an A+. If they missed on these picks the additional picks last year are nothing but a consolation prize.

In comment 15249998 chick310 said:
[quote] since it now has been 3 years?
_________________________________________

Okay. Let’s play. DG’s first year. He didn’t have time to reset the scouting department which was still working under McAdoo Reese’s guidelines. 4 players still on the roster in 6 picks. He got a star RB which proved out in Year 1. He got a starting guard who almost certainly will remain on the roster in 2021. He got a starting Edge-LB, and he got a DL who has been and will be the first player off the bench. And a UDFA O-lineman who can play anywhere along the line and is the starting center.

There was no crystal ball that could predict that Barkley can’t stay on the field. Hernandez may have been a reach. No flaws with Carter except a rare injury.

Passing on Parsons for the trade haul appears to be the smart move at the moment, but time will tell. Would have preferred Darrisaw or Paye instead of Toney there. Assume Giants are certain about Toney's character given the high standard applied to Parsons and the Baker experience.

Given the Toney pick, the next two trades and picks were superb. Ojulari at fifty was one of the best value picks in the entire draft. Robinson maneuver was brilliant both in terms of the player, and keeping him away from the other three NFC East teams.

The day three picks were head scratchers. Smith was good value, but to pass on OL and/or RB with comparable value there seems like a miss. But I do believe that turning a good defense into a great defense is the path of least resistance to playoff football, so I was ok with it. Brightwell was a miss with good value RBs like Evans and Herbert available. And picking another corner seems excessive given recent draft history and free agents. But if a CB was needed, I would have preferred Kary Vincent instead of Williams.

But this draft will ultimately be remembered for the passing over of Parsons to the Cowboys and the acquisition of 2022 draft capital which was a deft and brilliant counter punch to the Cowboys/Eagles trade. I cannot recall a trade down in draft position resulting in that much future draft value for the Giants.

So it may be four years before we know how Giants did this year. But not a bad draft and certainly the best one on paper in recent memory.

In comment 15250067 Ivan15 said:

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In comment 15249998 chick310 said: [quote] since it now has been 3 years? _________________________________________ Okay. Let’s play. DG’s first year. He didn’t have time to reset the scouting department which was still working under McAdoo Reese’s guidelines. 4 players still on the roster in 6 picks. He got a star RB which proved out in Year 1. He got a starting guard who almost certainly will remain on the roster in 2021. He got a starting Edge-LB, and he got a DL who has been and will be the first player off the bench. And a UDFA O-lineman who can play anywhere along the line and is the starting center. There was no crystal ball that could predict that Barkley can’t stay on the field. Hernandez may have been a reach. No flaws with Carter except a rare injury.

No crystal ball in any year on any player picked. And no need to give excuses. We all hope 2021 draft goes well and no harm in giving fun grades out, but 2018 draft is what can be judged more fairly right now. How posters can't stay composed and discuss anything rational in the past is absurd.

So what say you on a grade?

trading down in rounds 1 and 2 while picking up 3 extra picks in 2022 was huge win for the team's long term plans.

1st pick - Toney at 20 feels like high ceiling player with unknown floor. I don't think he was a reach b/c he has raw talent but he does not strike me as Day 1 starter like Smith or Waddle. Really depends on JG uses him. This is the type of player that can help Jones on short passes or he could be another Sinorice Moss who struggles to get on the field b/c he does not conform to the system.

2nd pick - Ojulari at 50 was their best pick. Despite this being a weak ER class and injury red flags, I think AO will contribute a lot on D in 2021. Giants will finally have an ER that OL have to account for on every play. First round talent picked in the 2nd round!

3rd pick - Robinson appears to be an aggressive tackler, but not sure how many snaps he gets in crowded DB room. If he can develop into solid 3rd CB with starter potential beyond 2021 then he might be the steal of the draft.

4- 6 picks - Depth and Special Teams. I generally don't expect these guys to play in 2021.

Conclusion - While I am optimistic that Judge is having more say on the players selected and the players we selected fit his vision for the team, I can't help but feel that Giants may have been better off picking Slater at 11 or Darrisaw at 20. Once the run on OL started in round 2 it seemed predictable the Giants were not going to get another starting quality OG in this draft. This is not a knock on the players drafted, but a valid concern that DG and Mara are more interested in proving they were right about Jones than continuing to build the foundation of the team. If Jones is not the long term solution then the Giants should be in good position to get a QB in 2022, but I hope we are not all kicking ourselves for passing on Fields in 2022.

I think the most impressive part to me was the process of why they picked the players they picked. Judge mentioned the Senior bowl and how important it was to connect with them face to face. With the insanity of Covid and the restriction of interactions and no combine, limited number of games, players opting out, there were so many obstacles to overcome.

They also relied on the connections they have within their coaching staff. I believe our WR Coach had recruited Toney out of high school and also our LB coach recruited Ojulari to UGA. With 6 picks and wanting players to fit your scheme, culture and roster, having a prior connection helps with the conditions of this past year.

The draft picks acquired for the 2022 draft is mind blowing. With an unknown cap situation, plus the spending spree we went on in free agency, this will be a great asset to add affordable talent next year and in the case of trading up for a particular player if necessary.

I also was expecting the drafting of an O Linemen. I really liked Creed Humphrey and think KC got a steal in the last 2nd. In fact I would have traded our 3rd and 5th to move up for him. Instead we spent those picks on another CB which is fine. They want to play more man and he is physical player.

Toney is an exciting player and is very different from the other receivers on the roster. I am expecting him to help on ST as well.

Ojulari is gonna produce and has a great chance to start. This pick made my weekend. He is a total scheme fit and a culture fit. My 2nd favorite player in this draft after Parsons.

The 4th round pick Elerson Smith looks like a Leonard Floyd clone. He may actually be the tallest player on the roster. Lots. Of upside and again seems like a hard working grounded team first guy from his interview.

As for the current offensive line, I thin we have forgotten how much they have invested in this group. 4 of the 5 projected starters are basically 2nd year players and got considerable experience and playing time last year. That is very valuable. They are young but think they will surprise and along with better coaching and.a preseason and off season I expect them to be much improvised. Thomas, Lemieux, Gates, Hernandez, Peart with vets we have backing up is solid in my eyes.

Let’s also not forget there are lots of vets still unsigned that can be brought in. It’s only May folks.

This has already been a successful off season!

The Giants have improved their roster tremendously since last year ended. There were probably at least 15 players on last years team that wouldn't make a roster of teams that finished over .500. Some of them were starters. That's no longer the case and they have seven picks in the first four rounds next year.

I think there are three main questions for 2021. How well will the QB play? How well can the OL protect him? How many injuries will they have to deal with?

Grade B for 2021.

Grade A+ for 2022.

Overall high B+ to A-.

that you never grade rough drafts or project in their early stages of development. You need to see the finished, polished product before you can do that well. So grades can't be assigned on this draft until 2023 at the earliest.

But there are always comments that can be made in the margins, so here goes.

1. Trading down in the 1st and 2nd rounds to collect picks in the 2022 draft was brilliant. There's no other way to look at it.
2. Kadarius Toney has Ike Hilliard written all over him. That's a good thing.
3. Getting Azeez Ojulari in the 2nd was a dream come true. At this point in the draft, I was thinking to myself, "Self, I've been a Giants fan for literally fifty years and I can't remember a draft going quite as well as this one."
4. DG likes to cluster draft, and he did it twice in this one. I get it, and I like the people we selected at CB and LB; but there's only so much room on any single roster, and I wonder who are going to be the odd men out come August. Reading the tea leaves tells me that maybe Ximenes and Carter aren't progressing as well in their rehabs as the front office would like. Oh, and Sam Beal is done as a Giant.
5. I think our starting 22 in 2021 are markedly better than our starting 22 were in 2020, 2019, 2018, and 2017.
6. Just as important, the bottom of our roster is in much better shape than it's been maybe since 2011.
7. I confess that I would've liked to see an interior OL brought in with one of our sixth round picks; but I'm not complaining.
8. Elerson Smith could wind up being a major player in our defense by the end of 2022.
9. We've had the best off-season I can remember since the Plaxico days of yore.
10. I wonder if we bring in another punter to serious challenge for that spot.

The grade is Incomplete. But this project is off to a really good start.

on paper.

The best part is all the assets we collected in 2022.

I probably would have passed on Toney and Ojulari but I understand why the Giants took them. I was a bit surprised that Brightwell was the RB they picked, but then read he is great on ST. The CBs were simply BPA. We are in a passing league, Dallas has great WR, the Eagles added Smith, and the WFT has McLaurin and now Brown. It's nonetheless incredible to think about all the draft picks DG has spent on CBs. I like that they didn't force an OL pick. Stick to your board.

(1) We have all now witnessed how the NYG will do business going forward. That in itself might be the biggest plus coming out of this. A more thorough and refined process. The upgrade in scouting and player development is unprecedented for this franchise.
(2) Due to our big jump into FA this year, we may not be players in FA in 2022. That said, players leaving us as Free Agents after this season will probably create a situation where we will be beneficiaries of Comp Picks next year. Management was aware of this too. The Strateic Planning of this course of action that was taken was outstanding.

on paper.

The best part is all the assets we collected in 2022.

I probably would have passed on Toney and Ojulari but I understand why the Giants took them. I was a bit surprised that Brightwell was the RB they picked, but then read he is great on ST. The CBs were simply BPA. We are in a passing league, Dallas has great WR, the Eagles added Smith, and the WFT has McLaurin and now Brown. It's nonetheless incredible to think about all the draft picks DG has spent on CBs. I like that they didn't force an OL pick. Stick to your board.

I would've drafted Joe Tryon after the trade down to #20, and then looked WR at #42. Really like Robinson and the flier on Elerson.

Coming away with three picks in the Top 100 range with Bears RD1 potentially a Top 5-10 pick was an absolute coup no matter how you slice it...

I've been following Toney since 2019 and assuming the off field stuff doesn't rear it's head, he is gonna cause opposing defenses problems underneath and over the top if Garrett can show some creativity... While I wasn't a big Azeez guy, he's certainly shows the ability to bend around the edge... And Robinson seems to be another athletic and aggressive CBs in the Bradberry mold

Big caveat is that we are obviously betting on the fact that our OL didn't need some additional support... Guess the coaches have a better idea but there are a fair number of unknowns and this was a solid OL class in the Top 50-75

If the OL holds up and Daniel Jones show more consistent play of what he has flashed, we should have a strong shot at a playoff berth this year and potentially much deeper in 2022

Hope springs eternal on May 2nd ;)

Got my second fav pass rusher at 50 and got an explosive WR along with an additional 1 and 2 mid round picks after all our guys were gone. I also like Robinson a lot plus LOTS of draft capital for next year.

If they didn’t trade back and get more picks it would be lower. I don’t like the gun issues with Toney. Also I don’t think his style of play will do any assistance to his body long term, could see the injury bug creeping up. Azeez has the knee issues and there was better talent on the board. Aaron Robinson maybe but not in the third. On paper it looks fine for now but I’m concerned we’ll look back on this one in a few years and go wtf.

Not getting a future guard.

Combine free agency and draft, give B+ also.

In comment 15250001 BigBlueShock said:

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In comment 15249998 chick310 said: Quote: since it now has been 3 years? Hasn’t the ‘18 draft been beaten to death around here? We get it. It was a massive fail. You are such a miserable fuck. How do you even get out of bed each day? Holy shit. We can’t enjoy the moment. Nope. Let’s revisit 2018 to bring back the misery! Yay!

You’re right the draft was a massive fail, and that is a big reason why the Giants haven’t had a winning record in 5 years. As for the grade for this year I give them a INC for not addressing their biggest need the O line, and we won’t have to wait 3 years to see how that works out. That grade will come in 6 months from now.

The future is bright.

2022 Picks acquired via trade = A+

In comment 15250205 Stan in LA said:

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The future is bright.

The future will Only be bright when they have a winning record again. FA, and the draft is only on paper, and will have to produce on the field, and until that happens, and they start winning they are who we think they are as someone said.

I agree with Ira that I don't love the two 6th round picks, and I agree with the "should have drafted a Guard" crowd, but otherwise I think they absolutely killed it.

Four really solid picks in the first four rounds and an absolutely superb job of setting up the 2022 draft.

Can't beat it with a stick.

I would have liked them to grab an Guard in round 4 and a better RB in 6. Otherwise I think a very good draft value-wise and with the addition of additional picks in 22, even makes this draft better.

Getting another first rounder in a draft with much more talent and data cannot be overstated. Getting Toney and Ojulari in 2021 I would have thought impossible. Getting them plus a first round next year is a slam dunk home run.

is out new defensive coaching staff. If they can get the best out of Ojulari and Smith, along with our guys in the middle, plus Williams, that is a very scary defensive front.

Ojulari to Ngakoue. If that’s true, that is a hell of a steal at pick 50.

Would not have traded back in the second and instead taken Eichenberg or Banks. Would have taken Smith or Forsythe in the sixth.

In comment 15250042 Mike from Ohio said:

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In comment 15250020 Pepe LePugh said: Quote: they went into the draft with 2036 value points. This years picks are valued at something like 1720 according to GBN’s big board, around 1900 on Sy’s grades list. The future picks they banked, minimum, 726. That’s if Bears beat Dolphins in Super Bowl. If Bears have worst record, it could go as high as 3362. How is that not an A+? Only complaint, trade some of that future capital for an OL pick this year. It’s not an A+ because the point of the draft is to improve your team, not your draft chart point value. I’m surprised that has to be said. If these players fulfill their potential then it is an A+. If they missed on these picks the additional picks last year are nothing but a consolation prize.

In that case there’s no point in participating in this grading game at all. Thanks for playing I guess

.

In comment 15250183 uncledave said:

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If they didn’t trade back and get more picks it would be lower. I don’t like the gun issues with Toney. Also I don’t think his style of play will do any assistance to his body long term, could see the injury bug creeping up. Azeez has the knee issues and there was better talent on the board. Aaron Robinson maybe but not in the third. On paper it looks fine for now but I’m concerned we’ll look back on this one in a few years and go wtf.

Not sure why it would be lower if they didn’t trade back. If they didn’t trade back, they wouldn’t have picked the players that you don’t like. Seems like if they didn’t trade back it should be higher.

In comment 15250311 Bill L said:

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In comment 15250183 uncledave said: Quote: If they didn’t trade back and get more picks it would be lower. I don’t like the gun issues with Toney. Also I don’t think his style of play will do any assistance to his body long term, could see the injury bug creeping up. Azeez has the knee issues and there was better talent on the board. Aaron Robinson maybe but not in the third. On paper it looks fine for now but I’m concerned we’ll look back on this one in a few years and go wtf. Not sure why it would be lower if they didn’t trade back. If they didn’t trade back, they wouldn’t have picked the players that you don’t like. Seems like if they didn’t trade back it should be higher.

This draft better hit big. Especially by not drafting a O lineman, and fixing your biggest need the O line. The Bear’s pick that everyone is so exited about is not going to help any this coming year.

I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft.

In comment 15250336 Bill L said:

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I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft.

The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons.

So the short answer is…yes

In comment 15250350 Bill L said:

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So the short answer is…yes

0-5.

what's YOUR solution? Easy to criticize, how would you "fix" the OL.
I'm tired of these stupid ass critical comments about the OL.
What they are doing now (drafting and developing those players) is the proven way to "fix" the line.
What would you do instead?

In comment 15250266 ryanmkeane said:

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Ojulari to Ngakoue. If that’s true, that is a hell of a steal at pick 50.

Yes and he is bigger and fast than Shaq Barrett. I love this pick!

In comment 15250373 Dave on the UWS said:

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what's YOUR solution? Easy to criticize, how would you "fix" the OL. I'm tired of these stupid ass critical comments about the OL. What they are doing now (drafting and developing those players) is the proven way to "fix" the line. What would you do instead?

and “roofie the opposing d line” is not a valid answer.

Getting the extra picks was great. I like most of our picks this year with maybe the exception of the RB especially with Kylinn Hill still available that time IIRC. Understand he may be more a ST player.

I love the trade back in rd 1 to make the best of a bad situation. We’ll see if Toney is better than Rrashod Bateman, who I think is going to be an excellent pro, but rd 1 gets an A from me. I LOVE the trade back in rd 2, and to get Ojulari, who I thought might be a target at 20, is a major win. A++ for me.

3rd & 4th rounds were very strong as well, a very promising ER and a CB who should be a major contributor pretty quickly. The only slight negative that keeps it from being an A draft is that I thought the 6th rounders were uninspiring when better players were still on the board. They’re 6th rounders, so I’m not going to lose sleep over it.

In comment 15250373 Dave on the UWS said:

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what's YOUR solution? Easy to criticize, how would you "fix" the OL. I'm tired of these stupid ass critical comments about the OL. What they are doing now (drafting and developing those players) is the proven way to "fix" the line. What would you do instead?

SAC when the O line sucks?

I said back in FA that I would have gone after Thuney. KC, which saw the need after the SB disaster have revamped their whole line. Who would you rather have on your left side? Brown, and Thuney, or Thomas, and take your pick from one of the backup guards the Giants have.
It’s, or second round would have been another O line pick in this past draft. I’ve heard all kinds of excuses that, because the Giants drafted 3 linemen last year that they couldn’t do it again. The Jets got Becton, who the Giants should have drafted last year, and drafted someone to play along side him this year, and now the Jets are better than the Giants on the O line.

The one where Parcells had 5 draft picks in the second round.

I understand the criticism: but Hernandez played well as a rookie. Lemieux had some moments as a rookie but it was up and down. Peart looked the part, not much playing time as a third rounder. Gates really showed a lot after struggling for a few weeks.

If we had taken OL in round 2 or 3, what are the odds that those guys start/immediately show that they are the better option over Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, or Peart?

Playing OL in the NFL especially if you aren’t a 1st round draft pick is a really tough adjustment.

“Just get more talent” on the OL is how you end up with Flowers, Richburg, Pugh, etc.

NYG have made it perfectly clear that they really like 4-5 guys that they already have in their building, and they will take the chance of this group gelling with a new OL coach over just simply taking a guy instead of another position/more highly rated player.

Free agency isn’t over yet, guys could still shake loose.

BBI routinely over rates Giants drafts. Since the overall feeling is A, B is likely (hopefully?) the range.

but Marc Ross gave us an A+ and the best draft in the NFC East.

In comment 15250431 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

I understand the criticism: but Hernandez played well as a rookie. Lemieux had some moments as a rookie but it was up and down. Peart looked the part, not much playing time as a third rounder. Gates really showed a lot after struggling for a few weeks. If we had taken OL in round 2 or 3, what are the odds that those guys start/immediately show that they are the better option over Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, or Peart? Hernandez may have played well as a rookie, but has gone down hill since. Lemieux was a center who could play guard, and drafted in the 5th round as a backup. Peart, and Thomas are unproven, and Gates is still learning at center. All the youth, and inexperience elevator if the talent is there is not a good formula for success. They needed some good vets, and that is why I would have gone after Thuney. And yes I know he was expensive. If you’re telling me there was no one out there in the draft that was better than WH, or SL I don’t believe that, or Peart for that matter. I hope everyone is right, and the O line turns out to be decent, but I don’t think so. Playing OL in the NFL especially if you aren’t a 1st round draft pick is a really tough adjustment.

I give it an A

Loved the moving down and picking up a 1 and 4 and then picked up a 3 next year and still got the best edge rusher in the draft.

Picking up the cornerbacks helps with nowadays offenses with multiple wide outs.

Between asset management and the players they got.

In comment 15250000 CT Charlie said:

Quote:

are appropriate. Because of the additional 2022 choices, though, I'll go with Pass, with a strong possibility of Honors.

Damn, teachers are supposed to love grades!

the trade haul was impressive and people seem happy with the players. Would have been A+ if Sy56 had Toney higher. 14 was a shock to me.

In comment 15250013 Trainmaster said:

Quote:

Based on the players they drafted, I’m going A- l agree in round 6 you’d think they would have found a way to get at least one OL. Considering the 2021 players drafted AND the additional 2022 picks, an A+

It seems to me they must have thought the difference between the OL in the 6th vs UDFA was less than the difference in the players they picked vs UDFA.

In comment 15250431 ryanmkeane said:

Quote:

I understand the criticism: but Hernandez played well as a rookie. Lemieux had some moments as a rookie but it was up and down. Peart looked the part, not much playing time as a third rounder. Gates really showed a lot after struggling for a few weeks. If we had taken OL in round 2 or 3, what are the odds that those guys start/immediately show that they are the better option over Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, or Peart? Playing OL in the NFL especially if you aren’t a 1st round draft pick is a really tough adjustment.

More likely than you think. You seem to be drinking whatever look-aid the organization is serving up.

They have a high opinion of the current group. We’ll see if they’re right.

That old DG turned a new trick .

to get an extra 1, a 3, and a 4 for next years the draft - those extra picks alone get the draft a B before we talk about players.

I do not know much about the last 2 players taken but, I love the first 4. Elerson Smith ... a project?

Now we are at an A.


Throw in the FA signings (Golladay, Jackson, etc ....)

A+ off season.

Players alone, and with the trades:

Players Alone - B. Like the 6 guys they got but they cluster drafted a position where we have some good young players and took a mainly ST player as a running back. Toney pick was good but Ojuilari, Robinson and Smith were all massive values. Picks 2-4 were their best.

With Trades - A+. The players were good but the trades were great. This gives us a lot of flexibility to do what we want going into next years draft, also allows us to add players without spending FA $$ which will be sparse.

Looks good on paper. Wonder if there was an OL we could've grabbed who might have helped out?

All in all, looks like reasonable decisions

In comment 15250196 Old Blue said:

Quote:

In comment 15250001 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 15249998 chick310 said: Quote: since it now has been 3 years? Hasn’t the ‘18 draft been beaten to death around here? We get it. It was a massive fail. You are such a miserable fuck. How do you even get out of bed each day? Holy shit. We can’t enjoy the moment. Nope. Let’s revisit 2018 to bring back the misery! Yay! You’re right the draft was a massive fail, and that is a big reason why the Giants haven’t had a winning record in 5 years. As for the grade for this year I give them a INC for not addressing their biggest need the O line, and we won’t have to wait 3 years to see how that works out. That grade will come in 6 months from now.

He is also right in that you are an old miserable fuck.

Harrison, Fulton, and Solder. Those 3 represent outstanding options in case of injury or bad play. I can't think of another team that has backups as seasoned as we do.

...plus got 3 additional picks for 2022 and were able to use a pick this year to trade up to snag a very promising CB in the 3rd round (and snag him from the Eagles, no less).

Oh, and the Giants addressed their two biggest areas of need (WR and pass rush). And improved slot/nickle CB.

So yeah, I'll give it an A.

In comment 15250628 No Where Man said:

Quote:

Harrison, Fulton, and Solder. Those 3 represent outstanding options in case of injury or bad play. I can't think of another team that has backups as seasoned as we do.

Three outstanding options??? Solder sucked when he was a starter. One of the worst FA signings the Giants have made.

Grade B+ for 2021.

Grade A+ for 2022.

Overall A- to A.

In comment 15250555 WillVAB said:

Quote:

In comment 15250431 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I understand the criticism: but Hernandez played well as a rookie. Lemieux had some moments as a rookie but it was up and down. Peart looked the part, not much playing time as a third rounder. Gates really showed a lot after struggling for a few weeks. If we had taken OL in round 2 or 3, what are the odds that those guys start/immediately show that they are the better option over Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, or Peart? Playing OL in the NFL especially if you aren’t a 1st round draft pick is a really tough adjustment. More likely than you think. You seem to be drinking whatever look-aid the organization is serving up. They have a high opinion of the current group. We’ll see if they’re right.

Well, as you suggest, it’s Schrödinger’s cat. So, there’s no difference at this point between being optimistic or being pessimistic other than the latter brings everyone else down around you.

I like the players we drafted in terms of BPA, position value and position of need. I like the trade up to get the CB. Obviously we don’t know how they’ll play in the NFL but these all defensible and sensible picks. There aren’t any obvious blunders or reaches. I like the players.

But, getting a first round pick for next year and 3rd and 4th are huge for next years draft. I honestly don’t understand how anyone doesn’t love this draft. Great job Big Blue!

Provisional because I don't know how dominant Parsons is going to be vs. how many points Toney is going to generate. Talent wise, Parsons is elite (I don't think Ojulari is his equal), but character wise, Parsons may self destruct. If he doesn't, he will shut down an awful lot of offenses, including possibly ours. DG took Toney instead. I see Toney as an ideal slot receiver, but will he be impossible to cover? If so, he will generate tons of points and make passing up Parsons moot. Several evaluators think Robinson is 1st round talent. I hope they're right. I'm looking forward to seeing what Graham can do with Elerson Smith. With a bit more muscle, could he be our next JPP?

Only knock is no OL - not their fault the value wasn't there when they picked 2-7. And I'm sure they believe in the personnel already on the roster with the potential to make another move or two. The first three picks have the potential to be contributors from the jump. We haven't seen the Giants with a dynamic skill guy since Beckham and I think Toney is a game changer. Ojulari just screams winner to me. Robinson can play between the hashes and outside, big, physical, with some snarl. Three great picks for an already very young team. And I like Elerson Smith as a project. The needle is pointing up considerable for the first time in several years.

In comment 15250620 chopperhatch said:

Quote:

In comment 15250196 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250001 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 15249998 chick310 said: Quote: since it now has been 3 years? Hasn’t the ‘18 draft been beaten to death around here? We get it. It was a massive fail. You are such a miserable fuck. How do you even get out of bed each day? Holy shit. We can’t enjoy the moment. Nope. Let’s revisit 2018 to bring back the misery! Yay! You’re right the draft was a massive fail, and that is a big reason why the Giants haven’t had a winning record in 5 years. As for the grade for this year I give them a INC for not addressing their biggest need the O line, and we won’t have to wait 3 years to see how that works out. That grade will come in 6 months from now. He is also right in that you are an old miserable fuck.

Don't bother with Old Blue Balls. He's all yack and absolutely no Fucking substance.

In comment 15250674 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 15250555 WillVAB said: Quote: In comment 15250431 ryanmkeane said: Quote: I understand the criticism: but Hernandez played well as a rookie. Lemieux had some moments as a rookie but it was up and down. Peart looked the part, not much playing time as a third rounder. Gates really showed a lot after struggling for a few weeks. If we had taken OL in round 2 or 3, what are the odds that those guys start/immediately show that they are the better option over Hernandez, Lemieux, Fulton, or Peart? Playing OL in the NFL especially if you aren’t a 1st round draft pick is a really tough adjustment. More likely than you think. You seem to be drinking whatever look-aid the organization is serving up. They have a high opinion of the current group. We’ll see if they’re right. Well, as you suggest, it’s Schrödinger’s cat. So, there’s no difference at this point between being optimistic or being pessimistic other than the latter brings everyone else down around you.

Not really, it’s not like all of these guys are complete unknowns. It comes to whether they’ll perform like they did (up and down) or worse, or if they’ll improve with experience. The organization believes the latter. We’ll see.

What others think - nfl,com- A"; pff -"C"; Sporting News - "A-";Walter Football - "B"; Sports Illustrated - "B+"; NBC Sports - "B";CBS Sports - "B"

When they got screwed by the Cowpukes/Philly conspiracy, they were wise to take what the Bears gave them. Toney & Ojulri are good solid players and two #1s in 2022 is nothing to sneeze at.

So far, so good. The Giants turned this into a nine-pick draft, with three of the most important picks deferred until 2022.

In comment 15250730 Bricktop said:

Quote:

In comment 15250620 chopperhatch said: Quote: In comment 15250196 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250001 BigBlueShock said: Quote: In comment 15249998 chick310 said: Quote: since it now has been 3 years? Hasn’t the ‘18 draft been beaten to death around here? We get it. It was a massive fail. You are such a miserable fuck. How do you even get out of bed each day? Holy shit. We can’t enjoy the moment. Nope. Let’s revisit 2018 to bring back the misery! Yay! You’re right the draft was a massive fail, and that is a big reason why the Giants haven’t had a winning record in 5 years. As for the grade for this year I give them a INC for not addressing their biggest need the O line, and we won’t have to wait 3 years to see how that works out. That grade will come in 6 months from now. He is also right in that you are an old miserable fuck. Don't bother with Old Blue Balls. He's all yack and absolutely no Fucking substance.

Thanks for all the kind words. Just don’t drink Blue Kool Ade seven days a week especially when things are bad such as a 4 year losing streak, and the team didn’t address their Biggest need the HUMPTY Dumpty O line.

In comment 15250628 No Where Man said:

Quote:

Harrison, Fulton, and Solder. Those 3 represent outstanding options in case of injury or bad play. I can't think of another team that has backups as seasoned as we do.

I can't think of a team that might need them as much as we might.

Ha! I kill me.

That there’s no room left for rational (thought?) discussion.

Probably the only situation ever where there’s an absolute insistence that there is no capacity or possibility for growth.

I like all the extra picks next year but when you are picking
11 I think you need a better haul than the guys they got.

But it is also a boom/bust draft. Their first four
Picks are all guys with high ceilings but also
Potentially low floors

Toney is another weapon on offense/specials. As good of a weapon as could be expected once Chase/Smith/Waddle/Pitts went top 10.

Robinson and Ojulari fill needed roles on defense.

The rest who knows but it only takes 2 players working out to make a good draft.

The Giants maneuvered the draft with professionalism. That’s an accomplishment.

They landed 3 players with legitimate expectations to be NFL starters, and gained an additional first round pick.

Grade the draft after next years 1st round.

The picks - B

DG and Judge did not panic after the BS Cowboys/Eagles trade and made an awesome trade down to pick up extra 2022 picks and still get an offensive playmaker at number 20.
My only questionable move is not fortifying the OL in the draft.I know...I heard DG's comments about the OL but it still remains the biggest question mark going into the season.
I like the players we got through the first 4 rounds I thought we got great value with those picks.

Very detailed comparing all 4 teams in the NFC East.
NFC compared - ( New Window )

Very detailed comparing all 4 teams in the NFC East.
NFC compared - ( New Window )

Will Toney be as good as Devonta Smith? Will Azeez be as good as Micah Parsons? If they are then this draft is priceless considering we go into next years draft with so many options. Not sure why all the complaining about not addressing the O Line. Pretty sure if management thought they could improve on what they have now they would have. They definitely needed a WR and a pass rusher. They have taken O Lineman early, in the past, that just sucked.

In comment 15250344 Old Blue said:

Quote:

In comment 15250336 Bill L said: Quote: I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft. The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons.

I kind of remember we did draft a bunch of guys last year, including our top pick for the O Line. So it has not been years. We traded for Zeitler a few years ago. We have 2 starters at Guard that rotated and maybe one can move over to the right side. Our LT is the 4th pick from last year. Gates seemed to have come along nicely as a center. And they signed a few backups. If they can work out RT dont you think they will be good?

In comment 15251093 lecky said:

Quote:

Will Toney be as good as Devonta Smith? Will Azeez be as good as Micah Parsons? If they are then this draft is priceless considering we go into next years draft with so many options. Not sure why all the complaining about not addressing the O Line. Pretty sure if management thought they could improve on what they have now they would have. They definitely needed a WR and a pass rusher. They have taken O Lineman early, in the past, that just sucked.

Not sure I like this take. There is no way that they would have been able to pick *both* Smith and Parson. So, if Toney is not equal to Smith, in your example, we still have Ojulari and the Eagles don't. Conversely, if Ojulari is not as good as Parsons, we still have Toney and the Cowboys don't.

In comment 15251098 lecky said:

Quote:

In comment 15250344 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250336 Bill L said: Quote: I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft. The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons. I kind of remember we did draft a bunch of guys last year, including our top pick for the O Line. So it has not been years. We traded for Zeitler a few years ago. We have 2 starters at Guard that rotated and maybe one can move over to the right side. Our LT is the 4th pick from last year. Gates seemed to have come along nicely as a center. And they signed a few backups. If they can work out RT dont you think they will be good?

Do you call the O line as is as being fixed? Just because they drafted a bunch of guys, and that is what they are a bunch of guys last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything, and just because they drafted our LT with the 4th pick doesn’t mean anything either. Some had him rated 4th out of the top 4 tackles last year, so just because he was drafted 4th doesn’t mean he will be that good. They had to trade for Zeitler, and sign the over priced Solder, because they had whiffed on Flowers, so yes the O line hasn’t been fixed in years. They have 2 starters at guard that are nothing but backups on other teams, so no the O line isn’t fixed.

ranked the drafts of the team 1-32 today

1 - Eagles
15 - WFT
18 - Giants
24 - Cowboys

These rankings did not consider future draft picks acquired in trade.

In comment 15251150 US1 Giants said:

Quote:

ranked the drafts of the team 1-32 today 1 - Eagles 15 - WFT 18 - Giants 24 - Cowboys These rankings did not consider future draft picks acquired in trade.

Dane Brugler

Because of the added capital in next year's draft. The picks, you never know, grading the picks is ridiculous before they play. Grade it in 3 years. With information.

In comment 15251182 PaulN said:

Quote:

Because of the added capital in next year's draft. The picks, you never know, grading the picks is ridiculous before they play. Grade it in 3 years. With information.

That’s why 2018 should be graded this year.

While all drafts should be considered TBD, for the purpose of this exercise. I would give the Giants a B+ and probably Gettleman's best in his tenure.

He was prepared for a trade down and an excellent trade down after missing on Devonta Smith. The Bears pick could be a good one depending on how things break. It will be fun to follow them.

Toney - My Florida connections say this guy is just scratching the surface of what he can be, so I am more optimistic then when I heard the pick. It seems the Jags wanted him.

Ojulari - I was shocked they got him after a trade down and until I heard his name, thought we would get a Gettleman reach.

Robinson - can't have enough corners and seems like they really wanted another

Smith - seems like a Reese type pick but why can't he be the next pass rushing steal in the NFL

Brightwell - Gettleman could not resist a running back

R Williams - seems like he might be something intriguing as more cornerback depth

My only complaint was not addressing the offensive line at all, but all in and all a good feeling after this draft and complete off-season that this team should be very competitive next season with excellent draft capital for 2022.

Of course, the key to next season is from the 2019 draft and Daniel Jones, I'm still torn on how good he can be, but we will get a better feel next season.

which was disappointing, but grabbing that extra #1 next year is a damn fine consolation prize.

Like the developing edge talent (finally) but how do you not come away with an Interior Olineman somewhere? Shows the faith they have in that current OL unit, but that seems an unnecessary risk.

And grades are for shmoes...

in a couple years on this one, I let it marinate for a while.

They wanted one of the Bama WRs and when that didn't happen, they did a good job getting value by moving back.

Now, if Jones is the guy, the team is stacked with picks to keep adding impact players around him.

If he's not the guy, the team is stacked with picks to get another potential franchise QB.

This team is as well set up as it's been in a long time. Gettleman and Judge have had an excellent offseason.

We go as far as Danny Dimes takes us.

In comment 15250067 Ivan15 said:

Quote:

In comment 15249998 chick310 said: [quote] since it now has been 3 years? _________________________________________ Okay. Let’s play. DG’s first year. He didn’t have time to reset the scouting department which was still working under McAdoo Reese’s guidelines. 4 players still on the roster in 6 picks. He got a star RB which proved out in Year 1. He got a starting guard who almost certainly will remain on the roster in 2021. He got a starting Edge-LB, and he got a DL who has been and will be the first player off the bench. And a UDFA O-lineman who can play anywhere along the line and is the starting center. There was no crystal ball that could predict that Barkley can’t stay on the field. Hernandez may have been a reach. No flaws with Carter except a rare injury.

Also we did NOT pick Darnold. We did NOT pick Rosen. They were very much in the discussion at #2 - moreso than Allen. Dodged two BIG FAT EXPLOSIVE bullets. Trade back and pick Allen may have been the best move in hindsight - but what they did was not too bad.

It would be an A but not picking Oline at all drops it a bit for me. Very happy with the draft though.

In comment 15250538 Harvest Blend said:

Quote:

the trade haul was impressive and people seem happy with the players. Would have been A+ if Sy56 had Toney higher. 14 was a shock to me.

I respect SY but you guys have to stop taking his grades as gospel. Daniel Jermiah and Dane Brugler had TONEY ranked in the 20s overall. So it’s not really a reach.

In comment 15251431 Reale01 said:

Quote:

Also we did NOT pick Darnold. We did NOT pick Rosen. They were very much in the discussion at #2 - moreso than Allen. Dodged two BIG FAT EXPLOSIVE bullets. Trade back and pick Allen may have been the best move in hindsight - but what they did was not too bad.

That's what you want to hear from a desperate team in need of a rebuilding and sitting with the overall #2 pick.

"Eh, we didn't do too bad...".

In comment 15251459 Jimmy Googs said:

Quote:

In comment 15251431 Reale01 said: Quote: Also we did NOT pick Darnold. We did NOT pick Rosen. They were very much in the discussion at #2 - moreso than Allen. Dodged two BIG FAT EXPLOSIVE bullets. Trade back and pick Allen may have been the best move in hindsight - but what they did was not too bad. That's what you want to hear from a desperate team in need of a rebuilding and sitting with the overall #2 pick. "Eh, we didn't do too bad...".

So who did YOU want? Darnold? Trade down and pick Nelson? Was that even an option? Barkley, Hernandez, and Carter were considered good picks at the time. Carter was showing improvement before he got hurt. Certainly a strating calibar player. Hernandez did start right away and is certainly not a bust. People talk like that draft was a complete disaster - injuries can have a big impact. Personally - I wanted to trade down at the time, but I can;t say that draft was a disaster that some think. In fact, it could still turn out to be very good.

But is there someplace to see what our draft positions/picks were going into the draft and the moves made during. I know they gained a 5th and traded that 5th to move up in the 3rd but did they always have 2 6ths?

As to the grading I give them an A for the way it was handled (moving down and aquiring picks when theirs wasn't there) and a B for talent picked. After the last so many years of poor OL picks and then boasting about hog mollies, to not pick an OL at all in the draft seems to make that talk BS. i understand they 'feel better about the OL than we do', but they lost a veteran guard and brought in a worse veteran and swapped out swing tackles. If the O struggles this year it'll be because of the line and/or injuries. The later we can't do anything about. The former we didn't upgrade at all.

Happy to discuss it yet again somewhere else if you like...

Favorite Giants draft in a really long time. Using the draft to strengthen the team for both this year and next, I've never seen them do that at scale.

In comment 15251142 Old Blue said:

Quote:

In comment 15251098 lecky said: Quote: In comment 15250344 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250336 Bill L said: Quote: I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft. The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons. I kind of remember we did draft a bunch of guys last year, including our top pick for the O Line. So it has not been years. We traded for Zeitler a few years ago. We have 2 starters at Guard that rotated and maybe one can move over to the right side. Our LT is the 4th pick from last year. Gates seemed to have come along nicely as a center. And they signed a few backups. If they can work out RT dont you think they will be good? Do you call the O line as is as being fixed? Just because they drafted a bunch of guys, and that is what they are a bunch of guys last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything, and just because they drafted our LT with the 4th pick doesn’t mean anything either. Some had him rated 4th out of the top 4 tackles last year, so just because he was drafted 4th doesn’t mean he will be that good. They had to trade for Zeitler, and sign the over priced Solder, because they had whiffed on Flowers, so yes the O line hasn’t been fixed in years. They have 2 starters at guard that are nothing but backups on other teams, so no the O line isn’t fixed.

So drafting O Lineman is not the way to go but drafting O Lineman in this draft would have fixed the O Line? Not sure what your point is? There is certainly no sure thing in the draft as the Giants know better than anyone. Lets hope their faith in the players they have works out for them.

In comment 15251100 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 15251093 lecky said: Quote: Will Toney be as good as Devonta Smith? Will Azeez be as good as Micah Parsons? If they are then this draft is priceless considering we go into next years draft with so many options. Not sure why all the complaining about not addressing the O Line. Pretty sure if management thought they could improve on what they have now they would have. They definitely needed a WR and a pass rusher. They have taken O Lineman early, in the past, that just sucked. Not sure I like this take. There is no way that they would have been able to pick *both* Smith and Parson. So, if Toney is not equal to Smith, in your example, we still have Ojulari and the Eagles don't. Conversely, if Ojulari is not as good as Parsons, we still have Toney and the Cowboys don't.

Actually my point was never getting Smith and Parsons. Of course they couldnt have gotten both. But if Toney and Azeez compare to those 2, and the picks we get next year, how incredible would this draft have been for the Giants.

In comment 15251668 lecky said:

Quote:

In comment 15251142 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15251098 lecky said: Quote: In comment 15250344 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250336 Bill L said: Quote: I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft. The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons. I kind of remember we did draft a bunch of guys last year, including our top pick for the O Line. So it has not been years. We traded for Zeitler a few years ago. We have 2 starters at Guard that rotated and maybe one can move over to the right side. Our LT is the 4th pick from last year. Gates seemed to have come along nicely as a center. And they signed a few backups. If they can work out RT dont you think they will be good? Do you call the O line as is as being fixed? Just because they drafted a bunch of guys, and that is what they are a bunch of guys last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything, and just because they drafted our LT with the 4th pick doesn’t mean anything either. Some had him rated 4th out of the top 4 tackles last year, so just because he was drafted 4th doesn’t mean he will be that good. They had to trade for Zeitler, and sign the over priced Solder, because they had whiffed on Flowers, so yes the O line hasn’t been fixed in years. They have 2 starters at guard that are nothing but backups on other teams, so no the O line isn’t fixed. So drafting O Lineman is not the way to go but drafting O Lineman in this draft would have fixed the O Line? Not sure what your point is? There is certainly no sure thing in the draft as the Giants know better than anyone. Lets hope their faith in the players they have works out for them.

Drafting O linemen is 1 way to go, but you have to pick the right ones to fix something, and just because they drafted some last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything. Thomas might not have been the best pick at #4, so you might have to keep drafting until you get it right. Solder was a big money mistake at FA, but that doesn’t mean you don’t sign anyone again. You do it until you get it right.

I liked their picks and I know they tried to address the OL, however they didn't. I understand that they just didn't have enough picks. But, that's the reason I'm not giving them an A+. I like the picks, love what they did for next year. This year, however for whatever reason they didn't draft an OL and to me it was more of a need than another CB.

In comment 15251694 Old Blue said:

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In comment 15251668 lecky said: Quote: In comment 15251142 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15251098 lecky said: Quote: In comment 15250344 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250336 Bill L said: Quote: I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft. The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons. I kind of remember we did draft a bunch of guys last year, including our top pick for the O Line. So it has not been years. We traded for Zeitler a few years ago. We have 2 starters at Guard that rotated and maybe one can move over to the right side. Our LT is the 4th pick from last year. Gates seemed to have come along nicely as a center. And they signed a few backups. If they can work out RT dont you think they will be good? Do you call the O line as is as being fixed? Just because they drafted a bunch of guys, and that is what they are a bunch of guys last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything, and just because they drafted our LT with the 4th pick doesn’t mean anything either. Some had him rated 4th out of the top 4 tackles last year, so just because he was drafted 4th doesn’t mean he will be that good. They had to trade for Zeitler, and sign the over priced Solder, because they had whiffed on Flowers, so yes the O line hasn’t been fixed in years. They have 2 starters at guard that are nothing but backups on other teams, so no the O line isn’t fixed. So drafting O Lineman is not the way to go but drafting O Lineman in this draft would have fixed the O Line? Not sure what your point is? There is certainly no sure thing in the draft as the Giants know better than anyone. Lets hope their faith in the players they have works out for them. Drafting O linemen is 1 way to go, but you have to pick the right ones to fix something, and just because they drafted some last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything. Thomas might not have been the best pick at #4, so you might have to keep drafting until you get it right. Solder was a big money mistake at FA, but that doesn’t mean you don’t sign anyone again. You do it until you get it right.

Rookies seldom walk in an begin playing like All-pros. Especially for something like OL where even new veterans need time to gel with each other. If you never ever give anyone the time to learn, develop, improve, you will continuously be churning people and wasting valuable resource. What you seem to be saying is that you want to have 7 OL picks in each draft in every year. That's not a productive way to build a team.

is parsons that much more a talent at ILB than Toney at WR in todays NFL and based on our deficiencies on offense?

would KC be as good as they are if they added a stud ILB but took away tyreek hill? idk

In comment 15251798 Bill L said:

Quote:

In comment 15251694 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15251668 lecky said: Quote: In comment 15251142 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15251098 lecky said: Quote: In comment 15250344 Old Blue said: Quote: In comment 15250336 Bill L said: Quote: I think you’re wrong about the oline and I’ll stand with the team in this one. But if we’re wrong, they get to evaluate and fix it next draft. The O line hasn’t been fixed in years, so you are willing to take a chance with this group, and if not better the team will go 0-5 for winning seasons. I kind of remember we did draft a bunch of guys last year, including our top pick for the O Line. So it has not been years. We traded for Zeitler a few years ago. We have 2 starters at Guard that rotated and maybe one can move over to the right side. Our LT is the 4th pick from last year. Gates seemed to have come along nicely as a center. And they signed a few backups. If they can work out RT dont you think they will be good? Do you call the O line as is as being fixed? Just because they drafted a bunch of guys, and that is what they are a bunch of guys last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything, and just because they drafted our LT with the 4th pick doesn’t mean anything either. Some had him rated 4th out of the top 4 tackles last year, so just because he was drafted 4th doesn’t mean he will be that good. They had to trade for Zeitler, and sign the over priced Solder, because they had whiffed on Flowers, so yes the O line hasn’t been fixed in years. They have 2 starters at guard that are nothing but backups on other teams, so no the O line isn’t fixed. So drafting O Lineman is not the way to go but drafting O Lineman in this draft would have fixed the O Line? Not sure what your point is? There is certainly no sure thing in the draft as the Giants know better than anyone. Lets hope their faith in the players they have works out for them. Drafting O linemen is 1 way to go, but you have to pick the right ones to fix something, and just because they drafted some last year doesn’t mean they fixed anything. Thomas might not have been the best pick at #4, so you might have to keep drafting until you get it right. Solder was a big money mistake at FA, but that doesn’t mean you don’t sign anyone again. You do it until you get it right. Rookies seldom walk in an begin playing like All-pros. Especially for something like OL where even new veterans need time to gel with each other. If you never ever give anyone the time to learn, develop, improve, you will continuously be churning people and wasting valuable resource. What you seem to be saying is that you want to have 7 OL picks in each draft in every year. That's not a productive way to build a team.

Having a O line with all being young, and inexperienced is a recipe for disaster. I would have mixed in some good vets through FA like Thuney, so no I would not be drafting 7 OL every year, so how long do you want to give this present group to see if they are any good, or not? They just spent money on FA I thought to win now since the team is on a 4 year losing streak. I don’t think the only reason this group is not very good is all, because they are young, but lack of good talent. The line has been bad for years, because of bad drafts, and bad FA signings, and I’ve heard all the excuses this past year from young, COVID, and no pre-season, and some may be true, but not all.

...I expect a starter from the position the Giants began the draft with - to me, Toney looks like a dynamic role player, a slot receiver and trick play asset - hopefully, he's much more than that - the team needs a #1 receiver and I feel like they have 3 #2's now.

As for Ojulari - I HATE injury risks. Would have been fine with him as the first round choice without the injury. Would not have picked, hope I'm wrong and he never has a recurrence.

Robinson, UCF?... OK. Hopefully, they know more than me (they do)

I'm actually happy the Eagles jumped the Giants, believe 170 WR's cannot survive modern day NFL seasons.

1st Round: WR Kadarius Toney the Player C... the player + the picks = A+
2nd Round: LB Azeez Ojulari the Player A+... the player + the pick = A+++
3rd Round: CB Aaron Robinson A-
4th Round: LB Elerson Smith B
6th Round: RB Gary Brightwell B-
6th Round: CB Rodarius Williams B+

Overall: for this year only : A- for the big Picture A+
best off season in years

In comment 15251550 Reale01 said:

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In comment 15251459 Jimmy Googs said: Quote: In comment 15251431 Reale01 said: Quote: Also we did NOT pick Darnold. We did NOT pick Rosen. They were very much in the discussion at #2 - moreso than Allen. Dodged two BIG FAT EXPLOSIVE bullets. Trade back and pick Allen may have been the best move in hindsight - but what they did was not too bad. That's what you want to hear from a desperate team in need of a rebuilding and sitting with the overall #2 pick. "Eh, we didn't do too bad...". Barkley, Hernandez, and Carter were considered good picks at the time. . . . In fact, it could still turn out to be very good.

"Who" considered it "very good?" The people that you wanted to listen to, right?

Because I heard it was an awful pick too considering Giants were in a rebuild and RB's get beat up early.

So what happens? Now that he gets hurt all of A sudden it's not DG's fault for taking a RB. YET THAT'S A BIG REASON WHY YOU DODN'T TAKE A RB 2ND OVERALL WHEN YOU ARE REBUILDING!
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And you made a point asking "who would you have taken?" My answer why does it matter who I or anyone else would have taken? That's not my job. You understand that, right? This is about if the Giants organization made the right pick.
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The draft "could've been good? Hahaha seriously you are using the "could've been . . . "

Holy crap.

I guess we got it all wrong many years ago. Just as we should say the Giants drafted well those few years ago, then the same can be said that The Buffalo Bills actually won- beat the Giants in the Super Bowl. Because that kick "could've been good" just before he started to kick it.

I like the fact that the Giants seemingly didn't panic after Eagles moved up & took Smith. They did the smart thing & traded back & collected assets for '22.

I caught a few Gators game & Toney looks like a complete stud. I just hope Garrett can utilize him correctly. Ojulari was a complete steal @ 50. I love all I've read about Robinson & Smith. No clue about the RB & CB from OSU.

Time will tell, but feel good about this draft right now.

We got a few guys drafted lower than expected, like Ojulari and Robinson which look like great value. The kicker to me is the 2022 draft picks. A 1,3,4. That's fabulous. I read the compensatory pick threads over the years, and if we get an extra 4 we go crazy! And now a 1,3,4.