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Who do you think could be more impactful, Smith or Toney?

DonnieD89 : 5/2/2021 10:19 am
Like a lot of us when the Dallas/Philly trade occurred, yer all knew the writing on the wall. We were very disappointed that we could not get that impact wide receiver in Smith. I am now thinking and trying to envision Smith on the Giants on the Giants , as opposed to Toney. We all know that Smith is a superior route runner, which the Giants sorely needed and he can make the wide receiving corps better. As I thought about the Toney selection, I couldn’t help, but think that Toney could be just as impactful or maybe more, as a threat through gadgety plays. I also noticed his running mentally. He really runs angry, which attributes to his yards after the catch as well as the shiftiness. The other issue is size and frame. Smith is only 166 pounds and 6’1”, compared to Toney at 195 lbs and 5 ‘11”. Do we find these more superior traits to Smith? What are your thoughts? Could he have a higher ceiling than Smith? Am I trying to over to justify this, just because the Giants didn’t get Smith?
More impactful, imo, has to do with the supporting cast.  
robbieballs2003 : 5/2/2021 10:22 am : link
Sirinani is still an unknown as is that Philly OL and Hurts. Way too many variables.
Either one would not surprise me.  
Big Blue '56 : 5/2/2021 10:23 am : link
TBD
I asked someone who is a Georgia alum who is an SEC lunatic  
The_Boss : 5/2/2021 10:24 am : link
He said to me that Toney would have been Smith if he went to Alabama instead of Florida. Let’s hope he’s right.
Short term, Smith for sure in all likelihood  
UConn4523 : 5/2/2021 10:26 am : link
but after a year or two? Could be closer than we think.
RE: I asked someone who is a Georgia alum who is an SEC lunatic  
blueblood : 5/2/2021 10:27 am : link
In comment 15250035 The_Boss said:
Quote:
He said to me that Toney would have been Smith if he went to Alabama instead of Florida. Let’s hope he’s right.


Well Saban did try and recruit him.. so he saw something.
Depends on how they use Toney  
Daniel in MI : 5/2/2021 10:30 am : link
I’m not going to downgrade Smith because we didn’t get him. He could be terrific, we’ll find out if his size hurts him at this level, but I was thinking it’s overblown a bit.

I can’t say I had watched Toney much at all this year. Highlights and experts see a quick, exceptionally shifty player. He’s played QB in HS and played from RB. If that shiftiness translate to this level and we “focus on what he CAN do” as Judge says, seems like he might add a dimension for us. We have a pretty good straight slot WR in Shep. We now have Golladay outside. Saquon in the backfield. Seems like Toney could give teams a lot to think about. But it’s all TBD now.
Smith sooner....Toney later  
George from PA : 5/2/2021 10:31 am : link
.
Smith is the better player right now  
Mike from Ohio : 5/2/2021 10:31 am : link
And has the higher floor. Toney may have more natural gifts and possibly a higher ceiling, but he has a longer progression that Smith to get there.
Smith was gone  
shyster : 5/2/2021 10:32 am : link
so that's not something I will think about.

Toney vs Rashod Bateman is a question that, as it plays out, will go a long way to determining the retrospective grade for this NYG draft.






Isn't the obvious answer . . .  
dschwarz in westchester : 5/2/2021 10:35 am : link
Smith? I mean, from everything I've read Smith is about as prepared for the NFL as any WR prospect to come out in years whereas Toney is an athlete/tough guy who with character concerns and route running issues.

Mind you, I think (at least at this point) the Giants did their best to make lemonade with the situation. They didn't pass on Smith, he was taken before their pick. And given where the franchise is, a trade up would been a very questionable choice.

The choice wasn't 'Smith or Toney' - the choice was Toney + picks vs. (for example) Slater. It's entirely possible that the Giants OL falls apart this year and the Giants regret not getting more assets in for the Line (or just regret cutting Zeitler). But it's hard not to think Toney + picks was great value over pretty much anyone they could have drafted with their original pick.
RE: Isn't the obvious answer . . .  
DonnieD89 : 5/2/2021 10:39 am : link
In comment 15250050 dschwarz in westchester said:
Quote:
Smith? I mean, from everything I've read Smith is about as prepared for the NFL as any WR prospect to come out in years whereas Toney is an athlete/tough guy who with character concerns and route running issues.

Mind you, I think (at least at this point) the Giants did their best to make lemonade with the situation. They didn't pass on Smith, he was taken before their pick. And given where the franchise is, a trade up would been a very questionable choice.

The choice wasn't 'Smith or Toney' - the choice was Toney + picks vs. (for example) Slater. It's entirely possible that the Giants OL falls apart this year and the Giants regret not getting more assets in for the Line (or just regret cutting Zeitler). But it's hard not to think Toney + picks was great value over pretty much anyone they could have drafted with their original pick.


I probably should’ve clarified my question more. What I actually meant was more impactful to the team and not as much as the individual.
C'mon  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/2/2021 10:48 am : link
Smith is a stud. Only hole in his game is size.

We made the best of a bad situation but Smith is the better player.
Toney would be closer to Waddle  
Simms11 : 5/2/2021 10:55 am : link
in terms of skill set. Smith will be a big part of Philly’s passing game and so his impact will be seen moreso there then Toney with us IMO. Golladay and the other receivers on our roster may see more balls. Toney will play in certain packages IMO. He will have an impact on the offense when he plays, however I don’t think he will play as much as Smith this year.
Smith. He is already the best WR on the Philly rosteer.  
Section331 : 5/2/2021 11:02 am : link
It is what it is, let’s be happy with Toney and move on.
Smith  
giantstock : 5/2/2021 11:17 am : link
I agree with Eric and Section.

C'mon let's move on.
TBD  
Bruner4329 : 5/2/2021 11:18 am : link
The real question is who will ne more impactful. Smith or Toney plus the first round pick we got for 2022. You can't dismiss the fact we ended up with 2 vs 1.
Smith  
MyNameIsMyName : 5/2/2021 11:19 am : link
Easy
Good fun for a BBI thread  
Big Al : 5/2/2021 11:25 am : link
but would most treat this subject as laughable and a thought put forward by an idiot Eagles fan if the teams that took the two receivers were reversed?
Smith will be more impactful as an individual  
blueblood : 5/2/2021 11:28 am : link
as Toney will be for the Giants. Giants have A LOT of playmakers.. Eagles have one..

Smith ALL. DAY. LONG.  
Capt. Don : 5/2/2021 11:30 am : link
but the real question is, what draft asset will be more impactful.

Smith minus who the Eagles couldve had in the 3rd (Aaron Robinson?)

OR

Toney plus Chicago's 1st and 4th next year.
One other thing that I believe Toney can contribute  
DonnieD89 : 5/2/2021 11:31 am : link
is downfield blocking. The way he tries to run through tacklers with the ball, gives me a projection that he would be a very willing blocker with his size compared to Smith. I’m not saying Smith would not be a willing blocker, but given his physique, that may be an attribute in favor of Toney. Again, I’m not saying Toney is the better player, I am stating that there is a possibility Toney could have more to offer, than Smith in impacting the team.
RE: Smith will be more impactful as an individual  
DonnieD89 : 5/2/2021 11:32 am : link
In comment 15250131 blueblood said:
Quote:
as Toney will be for the Giants. Giants have A LOT of playmakers.. Eagles have one..


That’s the affirmation that I’m looking for. Not as the individual, back how impactful as a team member.
Smith was the target and Philly jumped us to get him  
Rjanyg : 5/2/2021 11:37 am : link
Philly really need to get a player to improve their roster because they got bad in a hurry the last 2 years.

Getting Toney at 20 plus all the picks is unreal. We loaded up on WR this year with Golladay, Ross and Toney. Add Rudolph and the return of Barkley and this is a much better offense. Right now Toney fits and compliments the other pieces while adding the gadget element. Should also see time on special teams which is more in like with Waddle over Smith.

I think we did very well to add a talented player with more upside. Smith is a great player right now.
The only advantage of Toney over Smith that I see at this point...  
Milton : 5/2/2021 11:38 am : link
Is that had they drafted Smith, there would've been pressure for him to be the starter on Day 1 and anything less than that would be considered a disappointment (and would become a distracting storyline). Given Toney's profile, nobody will be surprised or disappointed if he's eased into the offense (with a role in certain packages, but not every package). There will be no distraction if Toney isn't a starter when the season opens. So, basically, less pressure on both the player and the coaches with Toney than would be the case with Smith. Other than that, I'm not pretending Toney is a better prospect (although it certainly wouldn't be a shocker if he turned out to be the better pro).
Toney is superior in only two areas....  
MarvelousMike : 5/2/2021 12:05 pm : link
physical size which should translate into a better blocker. The second would be his sudden, ankle breaking ability to change directions. He is more raw as a WR and will need a few years of coaching to get close to Smith overall. However, he will not have the pressure to start and perform as a first rounder.
RE: C'mon  
Mdgiantsfan : 5/2/2021 12:19 pm : link
In comment 15250071 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Smith is a stud. Only hole in his game is size.

We made the best of a bad situation but Smith is the better player.


This^^^.

I’m all in on Toney now that the pick is in, but there’s no way based on what we know now you can say Toney will be more impactful. Maybe if we had an offense like the Chiefs. But with Garrett I have no idea how good we’ll be with finding a way to exploit Toney’s talents. While Smith is plug and play.
RE: Smith was gone  
Section331 : 5/2/2021 12:28 pm : link
In comment 15250049 shyster said:
Quote:
so that's not something I will think about.

Toney vs Rashod Bateman is a question that, as it plays out, will go a long way to determining the retrospective grade for this NYG draft.



I agree. I really liked Bateman, so it will be interesting to see which scenario plays out better.
As a crazy SEC fan myself, Toney could have a nice impact  
Jimmy Googs : 5/2/2021 12:34 pm : link
but Smith is the guy you want between the two.
RE: As a crazy SEC fan myself, Toney could have a nice impact  
Johnny5 : 5/2/2021 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15250234 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
but Smith is the guy you want between the two.

Agreed. I like the pick and the scenario in which it happened (trade down and extra 1st)... but Smith was so incredibly good for Alabama.
Smith  
Bill L : 5/2/2021 1:34 pm : link
I still want to go and kidnap him and bring him to NY
RE: C'mon  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/2/2021 2:14 pm : link
In comment 15250071 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
Smith is a stud. Only hole in his game is size.

We made the best of a bad situation but Smith is the better player.


This.

Smith would have been awesome. Smith is a true #1 outside WR with a big catch radius, good long speed, quickness, and great route running. Smith has the ceiling to be a skinny Antonio Brown minus the crazy.

Toney doesn’t have that kind of outside ability or overall potential imo. He’s more of a unique change of direction monster of a player who projects to be a potentially great slot WR and gadget guy.

IF Smiths strength turns out to be an issue against NFL caliber DBs, then I could absolutely see Toney add more of an impact. But Smith is the more natural pass catcher on the outside and I expect him to have the better career, unfortunately.
Agree with Eric: Toney is good. Smith is much better right now.  
81_Great_Dane : 5/2/2021 2:15 pm : link
However, in 2021, part of the answer regarding "impact" is the QB. Which combination is going to be more impactful, Hurts to Smith or Jones to Toney?

It could be Jones to Toney for this year, if they're both healthy, if we see Danny Dimes again and if Toney picks up the offense quickly.
IMO . . . .  
TC : 5/2/2021 3:10 pm : link
the answer to this question is somewhat dependent upon how they are used. I view Smith as a more traditional WR, and Toney as a joker to move around the field, put in the backfield, etc. Not that he can't play the role of a traditional WR, but that not being his best possible use.

And that concerns me. Garrett's offense has been characterized as a power run, play action, long ball offense. Though there were plenty of shorter crossing routes last year. I just hope Toney's not a toy Dave likes that Jason tries to turn into a more conventional WR.

If he's able to constantly move him around, and design plays to his and Barkley's strengths, sky's the limit. I fantasize about he and Barkley lined up together in the backfield and one going in motion, or running reverses, getting the ball in motion, or Toney doing a run/pass option to Barkley coming out of the backfield since is a valid option to throw the ball.

He's a potential multipurpose offensive weapon, not just a WR.


RE: IMO . . . .  
81_Great_Dane : 5/3/2021 12:40 am : link
In comment 15250504 TC said:
Quote:
.... I just hope Toney's not a toy Dave likes that Jason tries to turn into a more conventional WR. ....

Jason still works for Joe. Joe's not going to shrug and say "Well, it's Jason's offense." He's going to make sure they're using Toney to best advantage.
RE: Good fun for a BBI thread  
Mike from Ohio : 5/3/2021 9:30 am : link
In comment 15250127 Big Al said:
Quote:
but would most treat this subject as laughable and a thought put forward by an idiot Eagles fan if the teams that took the two receivers were reversed?


Absolutely. If we traded up for Smith and the Eagles drafted Toney, this thread on an Eagle fan board would be getting laughed at here (and rightfully so).
Seeing a lot of fan mental gymnastics  
JonC : 5/3/2021 10:21 am : link
trying to justify the Toney pick in their hearts.

Giants missed out on the Jedi, and still picked up a promising first round talent at WR. But, he's not at Smith's level, nor Waddle's. Give him some time to grow and let's see how the Giants deploy him. Give it some more time after it in case Garrett winds up being shown the door, which I think is quite likely.
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