for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Ourlads Pre-Draft Projections for Our Picks

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/2/2021 12:03 pm
I like to go back see where guys were projected to fall:

1st Round: WR Kadarius Toney (2nd round)
2nd Round: LB Azeez Ojulari (1st round)
3rd Round: CB Aaron Robinson (2nd round)
4th Round: LB Elerson Smith (3rd round)
6th Round: RB Gary Brightwell (6th round)
6th Round: CB Rodarius Williams (4th round)
UDFA: DE/LB Raymond Johnson (6th round)
UDFA OC/OG Brett Heggie (7th round)
UDFA OT Jake Burton (UDFA)

Per Dan Shonka  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/2/2021 12:09 pm : link
#NFLDraft2021 Note An even 100 of 259 players drafted were underclassmen

Certainly looks like the Giants got excellent  
arniefez : 5/2/2021 12:13 pm : link
consensus value for their 2021 picks.

I think if anyone would have listed those names in those rounds and said the Giants would also get a 1, 3 & 4 next year they would have been laughed at by most of us.

This off season on paper has been a grand slam. Hopefully they have relatively good health this year which can't start soon enough for me.
those  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/2/2021 12:13 pm : link
critical of the Rodarius Williams pick, based on what I'm seeing from multiple outlets, it appears the value was simply too great to pass up. He wasn't supposed to be there in the 6th round.
Certainly looks like the Giants got excellent  
arniefez : 5/2/2021 12:14 pm : link
consensus value for their 2021 picks.

I think if anyone would have listed those names in those rounds and said the Giants would also get a 1, 3 & 4 next year they would have been laughed at by most of us.

This off season on paper has been a grand slam. Hopefully they have relatively good health this year which can't start soon enough for me.
Fair on Toney  
Jimmy Googs : 5/2/2021 12:21 pm : link
.
RE: those  
robbieballs2003 : 5/2/2021 12:22 pm : link
In comment 15250202 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
critical of the Rodarius Williams pick, based on what I'm seeing from multiple outlets, it appears the value was simply too great to pass up. He wasn't supposed to be there in the 6th round.


He seems like another DB with attitude in a good way.
At this point, calling Ojulari a first-round value...  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/2/2021 1:42 pm : link
... or Robinson a second-round value means taking the word of Ourlads or some other website over the judgment of all 32 NFL teams. Nothing against Ourlads; the site is great. But the only jury that matters has spoken.
RE: Fair on Toney  
Amtoft : 5/2/2021 1:44 pm : link
In comment 15250212 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
.


Toney grades were down graded by most because of his off field stuff not play.
RE: RE: Fair on Toney  
Jimmy Googs : 5/2/2021 1:55 pm : link
In comment 15250357 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15250212 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


.



Toney grades were down graded by most because of his off field stuff not play.


Yep. Very good player and had a nice season last year but never saw him as a first round guy. 2nd round prospect sounds pretty fair as I said.
RE: At this point, calling Ojulari a first-round value...  
myquealer : 5/2/2021 2:26 pm : link
In comment 15250351 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
... or Robinson a second-round value means taking the word of Ourlads or some other website over the judgment of all 32 NFL teams. Nothing against Ourlads; the site is great. But the only jury that matters has spoken.


Not all 32 teams, it's comparing the judgement of Ourlads and any other places you do this comparison with the one team that selected the player in that spot, and to a lesser degree the teams ahead of that pick that didn't choose the player.

You're suggesting all 32 teams thought Leatherwood should go in the first round, all we know for sure is that one team did. Same for Toney.What other teams say could be misdirection. Actions speak louder than words.
CBS Sports Rankings.  
ZogZerg : 5/2/2021 2:33 pm : link
Ojulari = 1st round, 18th overall
Toney = 1st Round, 24th overall
Robinson = 2nd Round, 48th overall

Not bad, 3 of top 48 ranked guys.
25 Years Old?  
Gene Filipski : 5/2/2021 2:52 pm : link
Let me first say that I'm very happy with the draft and UDFAs plus next year's extra picks, except for Rodarius Williams. He'll be 25 years old this year.

Giants couldn't find 20-23 year old player to draft instead with this pick?
RE: RE: Fair on Toney  
Milton : 5/2/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15250357 Amtoft said:
Quote:
In comment 15250212 Jimmy Googs said:


Quote:


.



Toney grades were down graded by most because of his off field stuff not play.
I tend to agree with this. Toney was original a "riser" among draftniks, making his way into the 20-25 range on most of their boards until reports of character concerns became public and the next thing you know he's dropping from the 20-25 range into the 25-35 range among draftniks. I'm guessing sans character concerns, 20-25 is his appropriate range (in other words, he was not a need-based reach).
RE: 25 Years Old?  
section125 : 5/2/2021 3:17 pm : link
In comment 15250474 Gene Filipski said:
Quote:
Let me first say that I'm very happy with the draft and UDFAs plus next year's extra picks, except for Rodarius Williams. He'll be 25 years old this year.

Giants couldn't find 20-23 year old player to draft instead with this pick?


Why, do you expect him to be around in 5 years?
Myquealer: Again, I was referring to Ojulari and Robinson.  
Big Blue Blogger : 5/2/2021 3:37 pm : link
I didn’t say they were necessarily worth what the Giants paid for them. I said it no longer makes sense to contend they were worth picking in the previous round, since no team selected them there.

In Leatherwood’s case, maybe he was fair value where the Raiders took him; maybe not. But calling Ojulari a “first-round value”, after he lasted until #50, is not analogous to putting the same label on Leatherwood. Leatherwood actually IS a first-round pick. A closer analogue would be calling Leatherwood a “top-ten value”. Somebody might think he is, but the market has spoken.

Is a healthy Ojulari a first-round value? Sure, I guess. The gamble on his knee is baked into the market’s appraisal of him as a second-round pick.
RE: RE: 25 Years Old?  
Scuzzlebutt : 5/2/2021 3:45 pm : link
In comment 15250513 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15250474 Gene Filipski said:


Quote:


Let me first say that I'm very happy with the draft and UDFAs plus next year's extra picks, except for Rodarius Williams. He'll be 25 years old this year.

Giants couldn't find 20-23 year old player to draft instead with this pick?



Why, do you expect him to be around in 5 years?


Exactly. He’s a 6th round pick. If he contributes on specials and provides depth for two or three years it was a good pick.
RE: Myquealer: Again, I was referring to Ojulari and Robinson.  
myquealer : 5/2/2021 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15250539 Big Blue Blogger said:
Quote:
I didn’t say they were necessarily worth what the Giants paid for them. I said it no longer makes sense to contend they were worth picking in the previous round, since no team selected them there.


Right, although it's possible other teams had a first round grade on Ojulari, but had other players still available who on their board had an even higher grade.

Without being able to see every team's board we'll never truly know how the other teams saw him. And at this point it doesn't matter. How he performs going forward will tell the story.

I was surprised he was there at 50 and glad we got him. Toney wouldn't have been my pick at 20, he might have been ther for our pick at 42, or maybe he'd be gone at 25 or 21. We'll never know for sure. My knowledge is far less than Ourlads and anyone working for an NFL team. Had it been my call Ojulari would have been a strong consideration at 20 and Toney a strong consideration at 42. The Giants got those two players and a future third round pick out of those spots. I'm happy.
RE: Certainly looks like the Giants got excellent  
DonQuixote : 5/2/2021 4:35 pm : link
In comment 15250200 arniefez said:
Quote:
consensus value for their 2021 picks.

I think if anyone would have listed those names in those rounds and said the Giants would also get a 1, 3 & 4 next year they would have been laughed at by most of us.


I agree with this. You can view this as solid value all by itself and grade it what you will, but you have to add in the additional draft picks to really get it.
The athletic posted a consensus top 300  
BSIMatt : 5/2/2021 5:03 pm : link
Which was a compilation of 70 player ranking lists:
Ojulari:20
Toney:31
Robinson:63

Bruglers top 300:
Ojulari:16
Toney:28
Robinson: 61

Gil Brandt top 100:
Ojulari:24
Toney:25
Robinson:54

Jeremiah top 150:
Toney:28
Ojulari:30
Robinson:55


These weren’t mocks but in player rankings 1st 2 picks seem consistently top 30 players and Robinson a top 60.
RE: those  
Biteymax22 : 5/2/2021 5:13 pm : link
In comment 15250202 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
critical of the Rodarius Williams pick, based on what I'm seeing from multiple outlets, it appears the value was simply too great to pass up. He wasn't supposed to be there in the 6th round.


People forget there’s a decent cap savings if they replace Yiadom and Beal which is really who they’ll be taking the places of (Harper too). Both players also have the make up to excel on ST’s too.
RE: RE: those  
Biteymax22 : 5/2/2021 5:14 pm : link
In comment 15250618 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 15250202 Eric from BBI said:


Quote:


critical of the Rodarius Williams pick, based on what I'm seeing from multiple outlets, it appears the value was simply too great to pass up. He wasn't supposed to be there in the 6th round.



People forget there’s a decent cap savings if they replace Yiadom and Beal which is really who they’ll be taking the places of (Harper too). Both players also have the make up to excel on ST’s too.


Whey I refer to “they” and “both” I’m referring to the fact we selected 2 CBs
section 125 and Scuzzlebutt  
Gene Filipski : 5/3/2021 12:10 am : link
So, we drafted Rodarius Williams at CB who will be 25 this year and no OL. Sy gave him a 70 score.
Yet there were higher or equally rated OL that we passed on:

Robert Jones 6' 4" 319 lb G/C 72 score
Sadarius Hutcherson 6' 3" 321 lbs G/C 71 score
Jake Curhan 6' 6" 323 lbs G/C 70 score
Kayode Awosika 6' 3" 307 lbs G/C 70 score
Bryce Hargrove 6' 4" 310 lbs G/C 70 score

Foster Sarell 6' 6" 318 lbs OT 75 score
Alaric Jackson 6' 6" 321 lbs OT 74 score

Stone Forsythe 6' 8" 307 lbs OT drafted after Williams at #208 71 score

Why draft a soon-to-be 25 year old, after drafting Aaron Robinson at CB in the 3d round, but no OL?
As I said, I very much like what the Giants did but Williams' selection puzzles me.

RE: section 125 and Scuzzlebutt  
Mike in NY : 5/3/2021 6:53 am : link
In comment 15251004 Gene Filipski said:
Quote:
So, we drafted Rodarius Williams at CB who will be 25 this year and no OL. Sy gave him a 70 score.
Yet there were higher or equally rated OL that we passed on:

Robert Jones 6' 4" 319 lb G/C 72 score
Sadarius Hutcherson 6' 3" 321 lbs G/C 71 score
Jake Curhan 6' 6" 323 lbs G/C 70 score
Kayode Awosika 6' 3" 307 lbs G/C 70 score
Bryce Hargrove 6' 4" 310 lbs G/C 70 score

Foster Sarell 6' 6" 318 lbs OT 75 score
Alaric Jackson 6' 6" 321 lbs OT 74 score

Stone Forsythe 6' 8" 307 lbs OT drafted after Williams at #208 71 score

Why draft a soon-to-be 25 year old, after drafting Aaron Robinson at CB in the 3d round, but no OL?
As I said, I very much like what the Giants did but Williams' selection puzzles me.


Maybe the Giants had some or all of those OL in the same area as the 2 they signed so they figured that they will likely land some as UDFA whereas Williams may have carried a similar grade but was the last CB on their board.
RE: section 125 and Scuzzlebutt  
Mike in NY : 5/3/2021 6:54 am : link
In comment 15251004 Gene Filipski said:
Quote:
So, we drafted Rodarius Williams at CB who will be 25 this year and no OL. Sy gave him a 70 score.
Yet there were higher or equally rated OL that we passed on:

Robert Jones 6' 4" 319 lb G/C 72 score
Sadarius Hutcherson 6' 3" 321 lbs G/C 71 score
Jake Curhan 6' 6" 323 lbs G/C 70 score
Kayode Awosika 6' 3" 307 lbs G/C 70 score
Bryce Hargrove 6' 4" 310 lbs G/C 70 score

Foster Sarell 6' 6" 318 lbs OT 75 score
Alaric Jackson 6' 6" 321 lbs OT 74 score

Stone Forsythe 6' 8" 307 lbs OT drafted after Williams at #208 71 score

Why draft a soon-to-be 25 year old, after drafting Aaron Robinson at CB in the 3d round, but no OL?
As I said, I very much like what the Giants did but Williams' selection puzzles me.


Maybe the Giants had some or all of those OL in the same area as the 2 they signed so they figured that they will likely land some as UDFA whereas Williams may have carried a similar grade but was the last CB on their board. 6th and 7th rounders tend to be those who can contribute initially on special teams or at positions that will be tougher to fill as UDFA all else being equal.
RE: 25 Years Old?  
GiantsRage2007 : 5/3/2021 7:35 am : link
In comment 15250474 Gene Filipski said:
Quote:
Let me first say that I'm very happy with the draft and UDFAs plus next year's extra picks, except for Rodarius Williams. He'll be 25 years old this year.

Giants couldn't find 20-23 year old player to draft instead with this pick?


2 points:
1 - League average career is 3 years.
2- -Giants haven't signed many players to 2nd contracts at all regardless of age in the last decade.
RE: section 125 and Scuzzlebutt  
Bill L : 5/3/2021 7:53 am : link
In comment 15251004 Gene Filipski said:
Quote:
So, we drafted Rodarius Williams at CB who will be 25 this year and no OL. Sy gave him a 70 score.
Yet there were higher or equally rated OL that we passed on:

Robert Jones 6' 4" 319 lb G/C 72 score
Sadarius Hutcherson 6' 3" 321 lbs G/C 71 score
Jake Curhan 6' 6" 323 lbs G/C 70 score
Kayode Awosika 6' 3" 307 lbs G/C 70 score
Bryce Hargrove 6' 4" 310 lbs G/C 70 score

Foster Sarell 6' 6" 318 lbs OT 75 score
Alaric Jackson 6' 6" 321 lbs OT 74 score

Stone Forsythe 6' 8" 307 lbs OT drafted after Williams at #208 71 score

Why draft a soon-to-be 25 year old, after drafting Aaron Robinson at CB in the 3d round, but no OL?
As I said, I very much like what the Giants did but Williams' selection puzzles me.


Didn't most of those guys go undrafted?

Scores might be one thing, but IMO the ultimate rating on a player is whether or not a team wants them.
Back to the Corner