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Offensive Play Book Concern

5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:05 am
With the amount of crazy talent we now have for playmakers, we can’t just let Jason Garrett ruin them with his vanilla game plans. This is a huge reason why Cowboy fans were glad to see him go. He doesn’t allow for great players to be great and get many yards after the catch with all his curl in patterns.

Please tell me our plays practiced and called and our game plan will be a team effort of coaches this year and not just the result of one boring man who lacks creativity despite being a pretty smart man?

Joe Judge has to be smart enough to not let a guy like Toney be used in multiple schemes, even taking the snap and using his quickness to get that 1-2 yards needed on third down. More quick WR screens, more pitchouts to Toney who is going in motion often. Certainly NY coaches can duplicate what other teams are doing and are successful at, like New Orleans just to mention one.

So, what do you think? Should I relax and trust that Joe has this, and that our coaches will collaborate to come up with a diverse game plan, or should I accept the inevitable that Jason Garrett’s limitations will limit our offense and prevent us from maximizing our players’ talents? Didn’t Judge say just the opposite will happen with our players?
Garrett wasn't let go because  
section125 : 5/3/2021 8:07 am : link
his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.
Define...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/3/2021 8:08 am : link
...vanilla.
Jet sweeps and  
PEEJ : 5/3/2021 8:09 am : link
WR screens are going into the playbook
One of the things that just isn’t a worry  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2021 8:11 am : link
Garrett hasn’t been a part of this type of coaching staff. I don’t think he’s had someone like Kitchens as his equal as an OC. He’s also working under a HC who operates differently than anyone he likely interacted with in Dallas. Our game plan last year was limited because of our personnel. Playbook will be op owned up this year for sure.

And if we still aren’t putting points up I’m guessing he will be fired mid season. Garrett isn’t out long term OC.
Dallas fans were happy to see him go?  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2021 8:11 am : link
He hadn’t called plays in about 10 years..He let his OCs take over the PC
RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:15 am : link
In comment 15251085 section125 said:
Quote:
his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.


So, are you saying you gave complete confidence in his game plan, his play calling, and in the plays he has drawn up?

Are you saying we should all feel- In Garrett I trust- attitude?
Garrett offense might have gotten. Stale, but the princeton grad  
George from PA : 5/3/2021 8:15 am : link
Is not dumb. They brought in several dynamic offensive minds....so I expect to see a better offensive game plan
RE: One of the things that just isn’t a worry  
Mike in NY : 5/3/2021 8:20 am : link
In comment 15251088 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
Garrett hasn’t been a part of this type of coaching staff. I don’t think he’s had someone like Kitchens as his equal as an OC. He’s also working under a HC who operates differently than anyone he likely interacted with in Dallas. Our game plan last year was limited because of our personnel. Playbook will be op owned up this year for sure.

And if we still aren’t putting points up I’m guessing he will be fired mid season. Garrett isn’t out long term OC.


Garrett was on Nick Saban’s staff with Miami Dolphins so I think he understands what Joe Judge is looking for.
I often wonder  
crick n NC : 5/3/2021 8:21 am : link
How many fans could accurately critique (in depth)Jason Garrett's "playbook" in front of qualified nfl coaches if asked to do so.

I'm guessing very few.
I would bet that Garrett's offense looks less creative  
Bill L : 5/3/2021 8:22 am : link
either in part, or mostly, because of limitations of the players he had to work with. As the players either are swapped out for better ones, or, as with the offensive line, develops, grows, sand improves, additions will be made to the offense and it will look more exciting to you.
RE: RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
Big Blue '56 : 5/3/2021 8:24 am : link
In comment 15251091 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 15251085 section125 said:


Quote:


his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.



So, are you saying you gave complete confidence in his game plan, his play calling, and in the plays he has drawn up?

Are you saying we should all feel- In Garrett I trust- attitude?


I believe some of us are saying that he was hamstrung in his PC once SB went down for the season in addition to not much to work with, with our receiving corps..

We can BETTER judge him now that he gets SB back and now has, on paper, excellent tools to work with in his WRs and new TE
How do we know Garrett's offensive gameplan....  
Britt in VA : 5/3/2021 8:25 am : link
wasn't limited by a. the talent he had to work with (no Barkley after Week 2), and b. it was harder to implement in the first year due to Covid restrictions?
RE: I often wonder  
Britt in VA : 5/3/2021 8:26 am : link
In comment 15251095 crick n NC said:
Quote:
How many fans could accurately critique (in depth)Jason Garrett's "playbook" in front of qualified nfl coaches if asked to do so.

I'm guessing very few.


I'm guessing ZERO, unless they've coached at a high level in college or above.
Since the Cowboys..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/3/2021 8:27 am : link
get a lot of love here, it will be interesting to see if Kellen Moore continues to get talked about as being an innovative offensive guy.

You know, the guy who actually called the plays when Garrett was let go.
RE: RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
section125 : 5/3/2021 8:27 am : link
In comment 15251091 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 15251085 section125 said:


Quote:


his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.



So, are you saying you gave complete confidence in his game plan, his play calling, and in the plays he has drawn up?

Are you saying we should all feel- In Garrett I trust- attitude?


Nope, I am saying the OP is wrong in saying why he was let go.

Did I like the playbook/calling no. I thought Kitchens did a better job in his one game as play caller. What needs to be said even more is the reason for the plain jane playbook. Things like a basically new offensive with two or three rookies playing on the line, a guy playing center that never did it; a backup RB, a TE that had questionable hands, their best WR hurt part of the year and the other doubled all year while playing hurt himself.
Do you think the Giants had the talent to do anything special on offense?
RE: How do we know Garrett's offensive gameplan....  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:32 am : link
In comment 15251101 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
wasn't limited by a. the talent he had to work with (no Barkley after Week 2), and b. it was harder to implement in the first year due to Covid restrictions?


I hope you are right, but Talking Giants week after week we’re doing extensive legwork to show us plays that featured many curl ins that obviously hindered YAC. You can go on YouTube and view these past videos for yourself. I’m not making this stuff up.

But your point regarding the lack of talent is noted..., we did have a lack of talent on offense BUT.....with practically the same talent the previous year, didn’t Pat Shurmur have a lot more success? Heck, even Danny Dimes was slinging the ball all over the place throwing for > 300 yards multiple times and 24 tds in just 12 games?

Why was Shurmur so successful with basically the same “limited” talent players? It seems to me Garrett has to take some of the blame, don’t you think?
RE: RE: RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:34 am : link
In comment 15251104 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15251091 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 15251085 section125 said:


Quote:


his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.



So, are you saying you gave complete confidence in his game plan, his play calling, and in the plays he has drawn up?

Are you saying we should all feel- In Garrett I trust- attitude?



Nope, I am saying the OP is wrong in saying why he was let go.

Did I like the playbook/calling no. I thought Kitchens did a better job in his one game as play caller. What needs to be said even more is the reason for the plain jane playbook. Things like a basically new offensive with two or three rookies playing on the line, a guy playing center that never did it; a backup RB, a TE that had questionable hands, their best WR hurt part of the year and the other doubled all year while playing hurt himself.
Do you think the Giants had the talent to do anything special on offense?


Then please explain to me why basically the same playmakers with the same crappy OL and a rookie qb were able to be so much more successful the previous year under Shurmur than Garrett’s run team last year?
Just a cheap shot  
Grizz99 : 5/3/2021 8:35 am : link
And offensive line that lacked the slightest bit of continuity because of no preseason. And in the center of the man calling the place had never played the position before. And you expect a sophisticated offense?
The most important thing is they continue to get better through the year. All this in spite of no Barkley and two or three plays with Evan engram that would have changed everything.
I wonder if the Opie knows how many teams the Giants have had that have gone 13 + 3. The answer I believe is only two. It's a rare accomplishment and usually takes a team that is loaded on both sides of the ball. Garrett took a team playing a rookie quarterback who was drafted in the sixth round and missed the preseason and had a horrible defense and he went 13 to 3.
It is a rare and singular and close to an amazing accomplishment.
Garrett has been calling plays since high school. And then some chump who almost certainly knows nothing about the game is critical because he doesn't have enough emotion. God help us from chumps
RE: RE: How do we know Garrett's offensive gameplan....  
Britt in VA : 5/3/2021 8:35 am : link
In comment 15251110 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 15251101 Britt in VA said:


Quote:


wasn't limited by a. the talent he had to work with (no Barkley after Week 2), and b. it was harder to implement in the first year due to Covid restrictions?



I hope you are right, but Talking Giants week after week we’re doing extensive legwork to show us plays that featured many curl ins that obviously hindered YAC. You can go on YouTube and view these past videos for yourself. I’m not making this stuff up.

But your point regarding the lack of talent is noted..., we did have a lack of talent on offense BUT.....with practically the same talent the previous year, didn’t Pat Shurmur have a lot more success? Heck, even Danny Dimes was slinging the ball all over the place throwing for > 300 yards multiple times and 24 tds in just 12 games?

Why was Shurmur so successful with basically the same “limited” talent players? It seems to me Garrett has to take some of the blame, don’t you think?


Well, Shurmer had Barkley. And I know a lot of people like to dismiss what Barkley's presence does on the field, but the offense went through him. Imagine Garrett without Ezekiel Elliot.
RE: RE: I often wonder  
crick n NC : 5/3/2021 8:37 am : link
In comment 15251102 Britt in VA said:
Quote:
In comment 15251095 crick n NC said:


Quote:


How many fans could accurately critique (in depth)Jason Garrett's "playbook" in front of qualified nfl coaches if asked to do so.

I'm guessing very few.



I'm guessing ZERO, unless they've coached at a high level in college or above.


Yet, fans are quick to critique.

To be clear, I am not against discussing what we aren't necessarily qualified in, but the discussion seems to have a more "set in stone" tone versus a curious or questionable tone. There is a reason that coaches put in endless hours in regards to installing, play calling, game planning, scheme, and playbook structure. I have a difficult time believing fans who put in 99.9% less time than coaches can accurately critique. If they are able to with such limited time and resources then they may be a football genius.
RE: RE: One of the things that just isn’t a worry  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2021 8:38 am : link
In comment 15251094 Mike in NY said:
Quote:
In comment 15251088 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


Garrett hasn’t been a part of this type of coaching staff. I don’t think he’s had someone like Kitchens as his equal as an OC. He’s also working under a HC who operates differently than anyone he likely interacted with in Dallas. Our game plan last year was limited because of our personnel. Playbook will be op owned up this year for sure.

And if we still aren’t putting points up I’m guessing he will be fired mid season. Garrett isn’t out long term OC.



Garrett was on Nick Saban’s staff with Miami Dolphins so I think he understands what Joe Judge is looking for.


That’s a long time ago and he wasn’t the OC there.

Garrett has had some very successful offenses. If he can’t get things going now he will likely be fired during the season.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
section125 : 5/3/2021 8:39 am : link
In comment 15251113 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 15251104 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15251091 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 15251085 section125 said:


Quote:


his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.



So, are you saying you gave complete confidence in his game plan, his play calling, and in the plays he has drawn up?

Are you saying we should all feel- In Garrett I trust- attitude?



Nope, I am saying the OP is wrong in saying why he was let go.

Did I like the playbook/calling no. I thought Kitchens did a better job in his one game as play caller. What needs to be said even more is the reason for the plain jane playbook. Things like a basically new offensive with two or three rookies playing on the line, a guy playing center that never did it; a backup RB, a TE that had questionable hands, their best WR hurt part of the year and the other doubled all year while playing hurt himself.
Do you think the Giants had the talent to do anything special on offense?



Then please explain to me why basically the same playmakers with the same crappy OL and a rookie qb were able to be so much more successful the previous year under Shurmur than Garrett’s run team last year?


Because it wasn't the same line, same players and same playbook. You cannot be that dense. You want to add in no OTAs, limited training camp and many new coaches????
Shouldn't be too hard to imagine the Offensive Gameplan  
NYGgolfer : 5/3/2021 8:40 am : link
should get more diverse and creative this season as Garrett will have better players with more talents on the field. But being creative shouldn't be the primary goal. The first goal is to build a gameplan that the offense can execute at a higher level and be far more productive and reliable in terms of yards/points.

That should come as well, but will still be subject to the Offensive line that has to properly support the playmakers and a QB to execute a large percentage of the calls. Two areas that were among the weakest of the team.

Hopefully injuries (and COVID) aside these new guys will have plenty of time to work together before they kick off in Sept so the Offense doesn't take until mid-season to find some successes.

RE: Since the Cowboys..  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:41 am : link
In comment 15251103 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
get a lot of love here, it will be interesting to see if Kellen Moore continues to get talked about as being an innovative offensive guy.

You know, the guy who actually called the plays when Garrett was let go.


Okay, leaving the Cowboys issue aside, let’s talk about what is really relevant to our team.....are you happy with The job Garrett did last year? Why do you feel our offense the prior year with basically the same players excelled compared to last year? Even with a rookie qb? Why do you think Jones did not really progress under Garrett as compared to under Shurmur?

I’ look forward to your answers to these specific questions.
The gameplan...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/3/2021 8:42 am : link
...changes week to week.

The playbook is likely not so unique based on it's contents but rather the offenses ability to execute them.

The Giants run Power/Trap/Zone(I/O)/Jet Sweep/Zone Read and likely RPO. I would bet that the passing concepts are similar most teams' that are considered "fun to watch."

Trust is going to be a huge factor in how the Giants perform in 2021. From execution to how the game is managed by the playcallers, if Coach Judge can get everyone to buy-in and trust themselves as well as each other, this will be a playoff team.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:45 am : link
In comment 15251122 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 15251113 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 15251104 section125 said:


Quote:


In comment 15251091 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 15251085 section125 said:


Quote:


his offense was plain. He was let go because they did not do anything in the playoffs when they made it.



So, are you saying you gave complete confidence in his game plan, his play calling, and in the plays he has drawn up?

Are you saying we should all feel- In Garrett I trust- attitude?



Nope, I am saying the OP is wrong in saying why he was let go.

Did I like the playbook/calling no. I thought Kitchens did a better job in his one game as play caller. What needs to be said even more is the reason for the plain jane playbook. Things like a basically new offensive with two or three rookies playing on the line, a guy playing center that never did it; a backup RB, a TE that had questionable hands, their best WR hurt part of the year and the other doubled all year while playing hurt himself.
Do you think the Giants had the talent to do anything special on offense?



Then please explain to me why basically the same playmakers with the same crappy OL and a rookie qb were able to be so much more successful the previous year under Shurmur than Garrett’s run team last year?



Because it wasn't the same line, same players and same playbook. You cannot be that dense. You want to add in no OTAs, limited training camp and many new coaches????


You just made my case 125....

You are right....It wasn’t the same PLAYBOOK....it was an inferior one (from Shurmur’s).

Btw, The OL probably was just as good as the previous year. And the playmakers were pretty much exactly the same.
RE: RE: Since the Cowboys..  
section125 : 5/3/2021 8:49 am : link
In comment 15251125 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 15251103 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


get a lot of love here, it will be interesting to see if Kellen Moore continues to get talked about as being an innovative offensive guy.

You know, the guy who actually called the plays when Garrett was let go.



Okay, leaving the Cowboys issue aside, let’s talk about what is really relevant to our team.....are you happy with The job Garrett did last year? Why do you feel our offense the prior year with basically the same players excelled compared to last year? Even with a rookie qb? Why do you think Jones did not really progress under Garrett as compared to under Shurmur?

I’ look forward to your answers to these specific questions.


No was not happy with the offense last year.

Barkley had 91 rec and 1300 yards rushing - you think that makes a difference?

Jones had a bad year:
1) Less experienced crappy line(which is worse than a crappy line)
2) See Barkley, above
3) Slayton was not hurt in 2019, was in 2020
4.) New offense, no OTAs
RE: RE: RE: One of the things that just isn’t a worry  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:50 am : link
In comment 15251120 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
In comment 15251094 Mike in NY said:


Quote:


In comment 15251088 UConn4523 said:


Quote:


Garrett hasn’t been a part of this type of coaching staff. I don’t think he’s had someone like Kitchens as his equal as an OC. He’s also working under a HC who operates differently than anyone he likely interacted with in Dallas. Our game plan last year was limited because of our personnel. Playbook will be op owned up this year for sure.

And if we still aren’t putting points up I’m guessing he will be fired mid season. Garrett isn’t out long term OC.



Garrett was on Nick Saban’s staff with Miami Dolphins so I think he understands what Joe Judge is looking for.



That’s a long time ago and he wasn’t the OC there.

Garrett has had some very successful offenses. If he can’t get things going now he will likely be fired during the season.


In retrospect, I should have omitted his Cowboys past...it is not as relevant. I know Jerry Jones didn’t want him to call plays because he wanted a more younger mind with new ideas, so one can’t really judge Garrett’s play calling at the end of his Dallas days.

I should have kept this discussion all about Garrett last year vs Shurmur’s final year and how do we feel about Garrett THIS COMING YEAR?
I’m repeating what I said yesterday ...  
Spider56 : 5/3/2021 8:50 am : link
Instead of running EE on jet sweeps and reverses (which he did), he’ll now have Toney, or a John Ross. instead of throwing screens and flares to Dion Lewis with minimal benefit, you now got Toney & SQ back. Instead of EEs drops, you got Smith, who is also going to help greatly on run blocking. Instead of an aging out Golden Tate, he’ll now have KG and others to confuse the defense and win the 50/50s. I have no doubt the schemes will improve game to game as it did last year, the key will be the talent doing the execution.
RE: I’m repeating what I said yesterday ...  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 8:51 am : link
In comment 15251133 Spider56 said:
Quote:
Instead of running EE on jet sweeps and reverses (which he did), he’ll now have Toney, or a John Ross. instead of throwing screens and flares to Dion Lewis with minimal benefit, you now got Toney & SQ back. Instead of EEs drops, you got Smith, who is also going to help greatly on run blocking. Instead of an aging out Golden Tate, he’ll now have KG and others to confuse the defense and win the 50/50s. I have no doubt the schemes will improve game to game as it did last year, the key will be the talent doing the execution.


From your lips to God’s ears Spider.....
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Garrett wasn't let go because  
section125 : 5/3/2021 8:52 am : link
In comment 15251130 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:

You just made my case 125....

You are right....It wasn’t the same PLAYBOOK....it was an inferior one (from Shurmur’s).

Btw, The OL probably was just as good as the previous year. And the playmakers were pretty much exactly the same.


Ok, you see only what you want to see and cherry pick to fill what you want...
RE: RE: Since the Cowboys..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/3/2021 8:54 am : link
In comment 15251125 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
In comment 15251103 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


get a lot of love here, it will be interesting to see if Kellen Moore continues to get talked about as being an innovative offensive guy.

You know, the guy who actually called the plays when Garrett was let go.



Okay, leaving the Cowboys issue aside, let’s talk about what is really relevant to our team.....are you happy with The job Garrett did last year? Why do you feel our offense the prior year with basically the same players excelled compared to last year? Even with a rookie qb? Why do you think Jones did not really progress under Garrett as compared to under Shurmur?

I’ look forward to your answers to these specific questions.


I didn't mind the job Gerrett did last season. He found a way to get a running game going in the absence of Berkley and he coached based on the limited weapons at his disposal. Don't underestimate what Slayton's limitations from an injury meant too.

Our offense didn't "excel" the year prior anyway. We had a OL that had the QB pressured at a high rate (as was the case last season too), and the team was playing from behind a lot more than in 2020.

I'm also not sure what defines "progress". Jones cut down on turnovers and his completion rate went up slightly. The gameplans seemed to be more in line with having several more games where the game was within one score than the year prior. And in a three games, we had a chance to win the game at the end and didn't execute. One was a bad drop by Engram. One was a missed PI and a late throw by Jones and the 3rd was an INT by jones.

I don't think you can look at last season and define what Garrett's offensive playbook looks like, and that's exactly what you say in the OP.

By the way - it isn't necessarily a flaw if you have only curl routes as options on certain plays. It is if the QB doesn't check out of a coverage that will be tough to beat or the WR's don't run good enough routes to get open.
Of course his time in Dallas is relevant  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2021 8:55 am : link
its why he got hired. He also had completely different personnel in Dallas.

Not really sure what you are looking for here. Jones struggled, we had no Barkley, and we didn't have anything close to a #1 WR. Our best weapon was open and in position to win games but he's muffed a few plays that cost us 2 wins. The offense was hard to watch but its hard to put blame squarely on Garrett.

Look around the league at teams with bottom 5 talent on offense, how did they look?
RE: RE: RE: Since the Cowboys..  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 9:04 am : link
In comment 15251138 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
In comment 15251125 5BowlsSoon said:


Quote:


In comment 15251103 FatMan in Charlotte said:


Quote:


get a lot of love here, it will be interesting to see if Kellen Moore continues to get talked about as being an innovative offensive guy.

You know, the guy who actually called the plays when Garrett was let go.



Okay, leaving the Cowboys issue aside, let’s talk about what is really relevant to our team.....are you happy with The job Garrett did last year? Why do you feel our offense the prior year with basically the same players excelled compared to last year? Even with a rookie qb? Why do you think Jones did not really progress under Garrett as compared to under Shurmur?

I’ look forward to your answers to these specific questions.



I didn't mind the job Gerrett did last season. He found a way to get a running game going in the absence of Berkley and he coached based on the limited weapons at his disposal. Don't underestimate what Slayton's limitations from an injury meant too.

Our offense didn't "excel" the year prior anyway. We had a OL that had the QB pressured at a high rate (as was the case last season too), and the team was playing from behind a lot more than in 2020.

I'm also not sure what defines "progress". Jones cut down on turnovers and his completion rate went up slightly. The gameplans seemed to be more in line with having several more games where the game was within one score than the year prior. And in a three games, we had a chance to win the game at the end and didn't execute. One was a bad drop by Engram. One was a missed PI and a late throw by Jones and the 3rd was an INT by jones.

I don't think you can look at last season and define what Garrett's offensive playbook looks like, and that's exactly what you say in the OP.

By the way - it isn't necessarily a flaw if you have only curl routes as options on certain plays. It is if the QB doesn't check out of a coverage that will be tough to beat or the WR's don't run good enough routes to get open.


Great answer and thanks for answering my questions with great detail to support them. Lots of good words to ponder.....I’m feeling better about Garrett already, especially believing Judge hired other people to assist him.
While the OP arguably placed too much blame at Garrett's doorstep,  
NYGgolfer : 5/3/2021 9:07 am : link
would think everybody here still feels the the offensive gameplans could use a good bit of improvement on a weekly basis. In that the OP, does have a point.

Thought Garrett did call some decent games last year but was, in many instances, undone by poor execution and mistakes from just about everybody. But at the end of the day, 17 points per game is abysmal and it is on him to ensure that isn't the case going forward, especially with more weapons at his disposal.
Good post Fats...  
Brown_Hornet : 5/3/2021 9:08 am : link
...also curl routes are a staple because Cover 3 is a staple.

RE: Of course his time in Dallas is relevant  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 9:16 am : link
In comment 15251139 UConn4523 said:
Quote:
its why he got hired. He also had completely different personnel in Dallas.

Not really sure what you are looking for here. Jones struggled, we had no Barkley, and we didn't have anything close to a #1 WR. Our best weapon was open and in position to win games but he's muffed a few plays that cost us 2 wins. The offense was hard to watch but its hard to put blame squarely on Garrett.

Look around the league at teams with bottom 5 talent on offense, how did they look?


I guess I had three itches to scratch here:
1. Was he a bland playcaller in Dallas? The answer seems to be no, he wasn’t calling plays his last 6 years...in fact Jones insisted he hire Moore because he wanted a younger mind calling plays.

2. Why did our offense, in particular Jones, excel much more in the prior year with basically the same crappy OL and the same mediocre playmakers, with no Saquon both years?

3. Do I trust Garrett to utilize all these new shiny toys that has been given to him to play with? I would feel better to know this offense will be run and made up with plays created by a committee with input from all hired. Even if Garrett has final authority to call the play just knowing we have creative plays to utilize our talent, like Toney taking the snap, etc...this would make me feel better. I probably should give JJ the credit to trust him...he knows what our offense needs to be top notch...I’m sure he has hired a few extra offensive coaches just to see that is going to get done.

I guess this is why I started this thread. It actually has helped getting this feedback...maybe tonight I will sleep better. Lol
Barkley played in 2019  
UConn4523 : 5/3/2021 9:21 am : link
despite the injury he was pretty effective. It made everyone better.

If he can't get things going to Barkley, Golladay, and Toney that we will know pretty quick and I'm sure Judge will do what's in the best interest of the team.
5Bowels...I had/have the same concern. Garrett has a couple knew  
Blue21 : 5/3/2021 9:29 am : link
shiney toys on offense. A couple games last year our offense seemed more wide open. But most of the time it seemed the same ole' same ole' with curl routes. Was it because of limited talent? We'll see. But I'm hoping Toney can be used the way we expect and and with the new speed and talent we have from FA that we'll see a noticeable difference and more production. I think a lot rests with Garrett. I'm hoping that it sounds like Kitchen will be more involved with the offense and that that will help too.
RE: Jet sweeps and  
giants#1 : 5/3/2021 9:34 am : link
In comment 15251087 PEEJ said:
Quote:
WR screens are going into the playbook


We did both last year, though not nearly as many WR screens. At least part of the issue was the players getting the jet sweeps (Shepard, Engram).
RE: 5Bowels...I had/have the same concern. Garrett has a couple knew  
5BowlsSoon : 5/3/2021 9:46 am : link
In comment 15251188 Blue21 said:
Quote:
shiney toys on offense. A couple games last year our offense seemed more wide open. But most of the time it seemed the same ole' same ole' with curl routes. Was it because of limited talent? We'll see. But I'm hoping Toney can be used the way we expect and and with the new speed and talent we have from FA that we'll see a noticeable difference and more production. I think a lot rests with Garrett. I'm hoping that it sounds like Kitchen will be more involved with the offense and that that will help too.


I just found this to remind me...

Offensive and Defensive Consultant Pat Flaherty

2021-Present: Offensive and Defensive Consultant, New York Giants
2019-2021: Analyst, Penn State University
2019: Offensive Line Coach, Miami Dolphins
2017-2018: Offensive Line Coach, Jacksonville Jaguars
2016: Offensive Line Coach, San Francisco 49ers
2004-2015: Offensive Line Coach, New York Giants
2001-2003: Tight Ends Coach, Chicago Bears
2000: Tight Ends Coach, Washington Redskins
1999: Tight Ends and Special Teams Coach, Recruiting Coordinator, University of Iowa
1993-1998: Offensive Line, Tight Ends, and Special Teams Coach, Recruiting Coordinator, Wake Forest University
1992: Defensive Line Coach, East Carolina University
1984-1991: Offensive Line Coach, Rutgers University
1982-1983: Assistant Offensive Line Coach, Penn State University
1980-1981: Offensive Line Coach, East Stroudsburg University
Pro Experience: None
Collegiate Experience: Offensive center for East Stroudsburg University (1976-1979)
Born April 27, 1956
Offensive Quality Control Coach Nick Williams

2021-Present: Offensive Quality Control Coach
2020: Offensive Assistant, New York Giants
2017-2019: Wide Receivers Coach, Southern Illinois University
2014-2016: Wide Receivers Coach, Jacksonville State University
2013: Offensive Graduate Assistant, Valdosta State University
2012: Offensive Analyst, University of Alabama
Pro Experience: None
Collegiate Experience: Wide Receiver, University of Alabama (2009-2012)
Born: N/A
Offensive Quality Control Coach Russ Callaway

2021-Present: Offensive Quality Control Coach, New York Giants
2020: Senior Offensive Analyst, LSU
2017-2019: Offensive Coordinator/Quarterbacks Coach, Samford University
2016: Offensive Coordinator/Wide Receivers Coach, Samford University
2015: Wide Receivers Coach, Samford University
2013-2014: Wide Receivers Coach/Recruiting Coordinator, Murray State University
2011-2012: Defensive Analyst, University of Alabama
Pro Experience: None
Collegiate Experience: Quarterback, Valdosta State University (2007-2010)
Born: N/A
*Offensive Quality Control Coach Bobby Blick

2020-Present: Offensive Quality Control Coach, New York Giants
2017-2019: Defensive Assistant, New York Giants
2016: Director of Player Personnel, Army
2015: Special Teams Coordinator/Director of Recruiting, Samford University
2014: Tight Ends/Slot Receivers Coach, Samford University
2014: Special Teams Quality Control Coach, Georgia Tech
2011-2013: Tight Ends/Running Backs Coach, Elon University
2008-2010: Offensive Graduate Assistant, North Carolina State University
2004-2007: Undergraduate Assistant, North Carolina State University
Pro Experience: None
Collegiate Experience: None
Born: September 8, 1984
Offensive Assistant Jody Wright

2021-Present: Offensive Assistant, New York Giants
2020: Defensive Assistant, New York Giants
2019: Offensive Assistant, Cleveland Browns
2018: Assistant Head Coach/Offensive Line Coach, University of Alabama at Birmingham
2015-2017: Director of Player Personnel, University of Alabama
2014: Running Backs Coach, University of Alabama at Birmingham
2013: Passing Game Coordinator/Tight Ends Coach, Jacksonville State University
2010-2012: Graduate Assistant/Offensive Analyst, University of Alabama
2009: Assistant Athletic Director for Football Operations, Mississippi State University
2006-2008: Graduate Assistant, Mississippi State University
2005: Volunteer Coach, Mississippi State University
2002-2004: Student Assistant Coach, Jacksonville State University
Pro Experience: None
Collegiate Experience: None
Born: July 21, 1981
*Offensive Assistant Stephen Brown

2020-Present: Offensive Assistant, New York Giants
2016-2019: Offensive Assistant, Dallas Cowboys
2013-2014: Assistant to the Head Coach/Special Teams Assistant, Buffalo Bills
2009-2012: Quality Control Coach/Director of Recruiting, Syracuse University
2006-2008: Student Assistant, University of Tennessee
Pro Experience: None
Collegiate Experience: None
Born: May 3, 1987
RE: RE: Jet sweeps and  
Jimmy Googs : 5/3/2021 10:03 am : link
In comment 15251199 giants#1 said:
Quote:
In comment 15251087 PEEJ said:


Quote:


WR screens are going into the playbook



We did both last year, though not nearly as many WR screens. At least part of the issue was the players getting the jet sweeps (Shepard, Engram).


WR/TE unit last year was clueless. They couldn't execute a decent screen without getting called for offensive pass interference for most of the year...
RE: RE: RE: Jet sweeps and  
Bill L : 5/3/2021 10:43 am : link
In comment 15251268 Jimmy Googs said:
Quote:
In comment 15251199 giants#1 said:


Quote:


In comment 15251087 PEEJ said:


Quote:


WR screens are going into the playbook



We did both last year, though not nearly as many WR screens. At least part of the issue was the players getting the jet sweeps (Shepard, Engram).



WR/TE unit last year was clueless. They couldn't execute a decent screen without getting called for offensive pass interference for most of the year...

I wonder what some of the running/screen plays with Shepard (and to a lesser extent, Engram) will look like with Toney .
The biggest thing that scares me about Garrett  
Kevin_in_Pgh : 5/3/2021 11:48 am : link
put simply, is the way he used EE. Specifically, this is a guy who clearly is a liability when he turns to face the QB, but is a threat when he doesn't. But he kept running those curls...
Garrett is not a stupid guy.....  
Simms11 : 5/3/2021 12:55 pm : link
I think they’ll adjust to personnel available. Playbook will probably not change that drastically because we have to have that stability again this year for the QB and offense, but we will most definitely see more of what Golladay, Toney and Rudolph do well. If Giants remain relatively healthy, defenses are going to have a real problem with this offense IMO. Oline will be critical of course and DJs decision making, as well.

Personally, I didn’t like some of the play designs, like the one where you have all your receivers running curl routes at the same time?!
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