Good morning BBI! As some of you may know I started posting these threads the Monday morning after games early in the season and kept posting throughout the year as they did seem to gain some traction and were enjoyed by at least a few of you. Since the season ended, I haven’t done any of these threads because we really haven’t had a reason, but I did think it’d be fun to have one on the draft.
With that being said, please see my non emotional thoughts on this weekend’s draft. As always, feel free to post your own, argue with mine etc…
• All things include (trades + players) I thought that this was a very good draft for us. Did we get our top target? No. Did we seem to have a plan to execute if our top target wasn’t available? Yes. Was it a good plan? Yes. The reality is you can have a good draft without a blue-chip player. The Giants managed to do that
• The Toney pick did and didn’t shock me. I think I mentioned in a thread earlier last week that I thought he’d fall. My reason for that is there was a ton of buzz on him early in the process and it just seemed to stop. Maybe teams just didn’t want to show their hands? It came out after the draft that Jacksonville would have likely taken him at 25 so I don’t think he’s a reach. He’ll need some refinement but the physical skill is there
• More on the Toney pick. The coaching staff is going to have to be creative with getting him the ball, he isn’t a line up and run standard routes guy right now. Where this worries me is Garrett showed little to no creativity at all last year. My hope is the Toney pick signals a different offense is coming
• Ojulari was fantastic value. Until the news of the knee issue I thought he was very much in play at 11 for us. He fits a lot of Gettleman’s demographics for players (young, long, SEC, Georgia LB) and boasted the production you look for. I have no clue what is going on with the knee but if James Andrews and Ronnie Barnes signed off on it he should be okay
• Staying on the edge rushers Elerson Smith is probably my favorite pick of the draft, I just love his upside. I know some were shocked that we took a second EDGE but we really did need multiple players here. Like it or not we still don’t know what we have with X-Man or Carter and when you look at Coughlin and Brown, they aren’t good enough players to stop you from drafting the position. You’ll see more from Ojulari this year, but Smith could really make an impact in 2022 or 2023
• Corner was another position where I saw some questions about taking 2 guys. A couple things to that. First is it seemed as if the Giants just had much higher grades on these 2 than the rest of their board. Second, even with bringing in Jackson (who has injury concerns) we were 1 pulled hamstring away from being in the same exact situation as we were last year which was having patch work starters on the outside. Robinson and Williams likely take the Yiadom/Beal spots on the roster. This also clears up enough salary cap room for 2021 to bring in a veteran guard if need be
• The RB is someone I didn’t know much about and still don’t. As a runner, nothing to be excited about. It seems as if this was a special teams pick. Since I haven’t been able to find any film of him barreling down the field on kick offs I’m refraining from comments. I will say this, I’d rather have Brightwell at RB3 be our special teams ace that Nate Ebner taking a roster spot from a talented DB to be our special teams guy
• What wasn’t drafted that went very well noticed? Offensive line. I’ve always been an advocate that every draft should have one offensive lineman in it no matter what, so I didn’t love this. Specifically, since I still don’t think we’re strong at guard. This year I’m okay with this though, we only had six picks and if the talent wasn’t there, it wasn’t there. You don’t want to draft a guy in round 6 knowing he won’t make the roster. I remember the Matt McCants, James Brewers, Drew Strojny, Jeff Hatch’s way too well
• We did take 2 olineman as UDFAs. I haven’t checked again this morning, but it looks like we only took 3 UDFAs. Shows a lot about how the front office felt about this draft class
• On to the trades: Those of us who have been following the draft have been in this situation before. Giants have 3 guys on the board and 3 picks to go. Off goes guy 1, then guy 2, then guy 3….. How do the Giants respond? In the past it was Cedrick Jones and Eli Apple. This year was different. They made a really good trade for the team, got a ton of picks for next years draft which seem to have more value than normal, and still got a high graded guy at position of need in round 1. Big win.
• Why are next years draft picks important? I look at 3 reasons:
o Teams will have much better evaluations on next year’s players
o We will not be in great shape with cap space next year due to moves made this year
o Jones is coming into his “prove it” year. If he doesn’t take a step forward, we’ll have the ammo to move up and take a QB. If he does take a step forward, we can have a very big draft and make a run
• Even the trade in round 2 seems to signal a different way of thinking within the organization. It was mentioned they made the trade down as they had 5 guys they were comfortable taking and they were sure at least 1 would fall. In the past I think they just chose from that group of 5 and move on, this year they took the future pick and took the best left. I get both ways of thinking, but the latter is more in line with the Patriots way of drafting. Don’t worry about specific players, accumulate picks, draft volume and bring competition to your roster
• Piggy backing on the Patriots comment. I see a lot of chatter started asking whether Judge is making the calls or if its still Gettleman. At the very least Judge has a much bigger voice in the room than Shurmur or McAdoo did. I take the organization at their word that these picks are group decisions, but I do think Judge may be one of the louder voices. Decisions made by committees tend to be made by 1 or 2 people that influence the committee
• Result from the weekend:
o Kadarius Toney
o Azeez Ojulari
o Aaron Robinson
o Elerson Smith
o Gary Brightwell
o Rodarius Williams
o 2022 Round 1 pick (Bears)
o 2022 Round 3 pick (Dolphins)
o 2022 Round 4 pick (Bears)
• This capped off a strong offseason. Our QB and our young offensive line taking steps forward will now dictate how far we go. Given the defense and upgrades to our skill positions + a bad division we should expect to at least compete for the NFC East title. Hopefully Sale can work some magic and Jones takes that year 3 leap
Sorry I can't find a link, but in my local paper an AP byline had a Giants draft review, quoted Tyke Tolbert saying that Toney IS a good route runner and will play both slot and outside. Said same for Golladay and others
In hindsight, the one question I have and I don't think it's been answered, not sure if it's even been asked.
After Surtain came off the board, did we call Dallas about moving up? Did/would Dallas choose Philly over us if they were getting an extra 3rd from either? In what was really a terrific draft, the only downer for me is Smith in Philly of all places.
If I'm being honest, gun to my head I'm still taking Toney plus picks over Smith for a couple picks.
It may be as simple as DG asks the coach who he wants and Shurmur says *this* guy and Judge says anyone of this group of guys, and that's what informs the strategy of trade/don't trade.
So it appears they decided to see what they have in their young guys and they have enough depth / plug guys to ride out the year (although I wouldn't be surprised to see them bring in another FA).
If the OL falters this year we are well positioned to really beef up the line in the 2022 draft.
As for the RB we took in round 6, I bet he was selected because Judge told DG to select him. He just may be the Cody Core we had in 2019.
Quote:
I believe DG has always tried to get who the coaches want ... only now he has much smarter coaches. Also, JJ mentioned in an interview after the draft that this year the scouts knew before the college season what he wanted them to look for in potential players. Last year, his first, he started in January and all the game scouting was complete. This should only get better each year as cohesiveness builds thruout the organization.
It may be as simple as DG asks the coach who he wants and Shurmur says *this* guy and Judge says anyone of this group of guys, and that's what informs the strategy of trade/don't trade.
I'm thinking something similar but more like Gettleman asking Shurmur "do you like this guy" and him just saying yes.
Judge doesn't seem like the type to just say "yes" and let the pick go in, I think he gives his full opinion and lists all the guys he likes.
One negative is not coming away with another resource for the OL, even for the longer term aspect. Not comforting.
Would like to have seen Giants grab Liam Eichenberg at #42 instead of trading back. And if Ojulari was still such an enticing target, used one of the other picks (2021 or 2022) to move up to grab him. Obviously just playing arm-chair as it may not have been doable but nevertheless...
If you need a fourth cornerback and a third D-lineman for depth, pick two CB's this year. One of them should make the cut. Worry about the D-lineman next year. And if both CB's turn out to be excellent, you can keep both or trade one of them for another team's surplus.
To me, this feels like a better approach than throwing darts at 1 DB and 1 DL this year and doing the same again next year.
But losing Zeitler after seeing a stretch of competent OL play last year (collectively) definitely makes me nervous.
But we'll see.
The big question that I have is what can we expect from Olujari ?? When those reports of 'degenerative leg' issues first surfaced....I took him off my list. But then we find out that Dr Andrews examined him and sent a letter to all teams giving Azezz a clean bill. With the Giants connections to the SEC, I feel a lot better about this pick than I did the day before the Draft.
Now, wouldn't it be something if Kadarius Toney outperforms ol' whatshisname down in Philly ?? HA !!
I am really digging the Toney pick. Just knowing that Urban Meyer was going to select him at 25 provides and confirmation on value. He is bigger and faster than Smith and almost played at Bama.
E. Smith the edge rusher looks to be a potential beast. Dude is long and looks twitchy.
[i]I see a lot of chatter started asking whether Judge is making the calls or if its still Gettleman. At the very least Judge has a much bigger voice in the room than Shurmur or McAdoo did.[/]
I think DG made a couple of calls over Shurmur(Solder and Barkley come to mind), but I do think Gettleman gave a lot of say to coaches in other areas. Specificaly, I look at Bettchers defense and he imported a few former Cardinals, that can at best be called head scratchers. So I'm not sure of the dynamics and how they are changed except for the fact that maybe judge and company have a better feel for the players they want and then are better at coaching them up and schemeing, though I'm still waiting for Garrett to produce a better gameplan. I hate to say it but Kitchens did a better job or got lucky last season when he had his opportunity.
Also, a pleasure to read a post using paragraphs and bullet points.
If you need a fourth cornerback and a third D-lineman for depth, pick two CB's this year. One of them should make the cut. Worry about the D-lineman next year. And if both CB's turn out to be excellent, you can keep both or trade one of them for another team's surplus.
To me, this feels like a better approach than throwing darts at 1 DB and 1 DL this year and doing the same again next year.
They said they weren't looking at CB with our 6th, but the value was way too good to pass up on their board. It isn't about drafting position, it's about drafting players, it just fell that way. It's exactly why they traded down in the 2nd and just didn't stand pat and draft Oyuwari. They want to get commiserate talent at the spots they draft at.
ALl people see is outcomes and not what leads to those outcomes. The problem with the Apple pick is they forced a need position into the slot, ditto Flowers. Rumor is that AVT was the pick if they couldn't trade down (who seems like a plug and play guard) but fortunately Bears were hot for a QB. Not to many years are teams trading down from the 11 spot for a QB. We were fortunate in that regard.
I agree; you are making the point that someone has to want to move up for you to move down. We got lucky with the haul from the bears. What I liked was the 2nd round move. Again situation has to be right. But would the Giants have made the move Dallas made. Getting an extra 3rd round pick is valueable and if you can use what seems to be a more recent Giants philosphy of having 4 or 5 players in mind for your spot gives you the flexibility to possibly get an extra pick. Obviously this all goes out the window if your guy is there(aka if Smith was there at 11 an no one jumped us).