NYG OL Analysis

Neither Hernandez nor Lemieux have played on the right side for years.

"Nate Solder - had a good career w NE. Came to NYG as a broken down, over-priced LT and was often over matched especially by speed rushers."

I can't wait until you give us the glass half empty analysis!

What makes you say Peart is a smart kid?

He played well down the stretch. He gave up 9 pressures in the first Dallas game, I think he gave up 3 total pressures combined in the Giants second matchups with Philly, Washington and Dallas.

Remember he had Covid last year as did Peart, a definite set back for both. Let the dam season play out before you hit the panic button. If they suck, we have a ton of picks next year.

He’s going to show why he was the #4 pick. He’s got everything you could ask for in a LT. Gates is going to be an asset at C. Hernandez is an average G. Nothing to impress you but a legit starter. That’s three. Everything else is speculation. Lemieux and Peart have potential and I’m optimistic about them but it’s a “show me” for them. It been too many years hoping the OL is fixed to believe it until I see it.

Wasn’t switched there after his first season but I guess he looked “good enough” at LG to stay put. At least the Giants would know what they have at this point. Blame Hal Hunter for creating this mess. Why is it so hard to find a good O-line coach?

With Pugh gone and Hernandez starting, the Giants have had a succession of RGs and only one had any success for a half season. The Giants decided not to retain him.

Fulton may be below average but at least he has a history of starting. I’m not sure that Turner would be an improvement since Fulton was better than Turner at least last year apparently.

Ideally, at least at this point, you want Hernandez to be successful at RG and Lemieux to be successful at LG.

In comment 15251212 Milton said:

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What makes you say Peart is a smart kid?

I know football intelligence can be different than life intelligence but I like the way he articulates himself (thoughtful and well spoken). It was also stated somewhere in last year's draft process that he was a good student.

In comment 15251236 giant power said:

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Remember he had Covid last year as did Peart, a definite set back for both. Let the dam season play out before you hit the panic button. If they suck, we have a ton of picks next year.

Who hit the panic button?

Fulton isn't a terrible pickup either...Watched Skinners film breakdown of him, and hes a smart player who should help the young guys in the stunt pickup game. His technique is a little off, but I'd wager he's going to give legit competition at RG.

I'd also like to point out that many believe Zeitler had a big drop off in 2020 from 2019. Not to keep quoting Skinner, (but I enjoy his film breakdowns better than most), "Zeitler went from not having a bad rep in 2019, to having entire bad games in 2020."

I still think hes a very good player, but in 2019 he was clearly their best offensive player. 2020 that was not the case. When breaking down the film and weighing in cost, it was an easy cut IMO.

If Lemiuex us going to win out at guard, he needs to fix his feet. This is the interior player that would benefit the most from being coached up this off-season.

As for Peart, i remember (I think it was Nagy from the senior bowl) saying that he might be better as a LT and Thomas at RT. Not saying the Giants do this, but in the snaps that Peart came in for Thomas on the left side, I was very impressed. They clearly have options there, and I wouldn't want to move your 4th overall pick to the right side, but many are very high on Peart as a plus starting tackle in this league once he develops.

The proof is going to be in the pudding, but it's not unreasonable to expect (yes EXPECT) these 2nd year guys to improve dramatically.

In comment 15251273 bLiTz 2k said:

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Fulton isn't a terrible pickup either...Watched Skinners film breakdown of him, and hes a smart player who should help the young guys in the stunt pickup game. His technique is a little off, but I'd wager he's going to give legit competition at RG. I'd also like to point out that many believe Zeitler had a big drop off in 2020 from 2019. Not to keep quoting Skinner, (but I enjoy his film breakdowns better than most), "Zeitler went from not having a bad rep in 2019, to having entire bad games in 2020." I still think hes a very good player, but in 2019 he was clearly their best offensive player. 2020 that was not the case. When breaking down the film and weighing in cost, it was an easy cut IMO. If Lemiuex us going to win out at guard, he needs to fix his feet. This is the interior player that would benefit the most from being coached up this off-season. As for Peart, i remember (I think it was Nagy from the senior bowl) saying that he might be better as a LT and Thomas at RT. Not saying the Giants do this, but in the snaps that Peart came in for Thomas on the left side, I was very impressed. They clearly have options there, and I wouldn't want to move your 4th overall pick to the right side, but many are very high on Peart as a plus starting tackle in this league once he develops. The proof is going to be in the pudding, but it's not unreasonable to expect (yes EXPECT) these 2nd year guys to improve dramatically.

Haven't seen Skinner's recaps of the OL play since the season ended, but he was also very high on Zeitler all year and made mention in almost every OL review that Zeitler got a bad rap from fans. Maybe he was vintage Zeitler, but based on the OL reviews, I'd guess Skinner had him as a top 2 OL on this team last year (with Gates).

wore a big brace on his elbow for much of the season that he did not wear at Georgia. I think there was more going on with him physically than just the lower leg injury.

In comment 15251270 NYG22 said:

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In comment 15251236 giant power said: Quote: Remember he had Covid last year as did Peart, a definite set back for both. Let the dam season play out before you hit the panic button. If they suck, we have a ton of picks next year. Who hit the panic button?

This is the fan hyperbole that is so rampant here these days. If you say a guy's play has fallen off, or he may not be a long term solution, you must hate him or at least want to cut him. Because of that, you likely aren't a real Giants fan either and some kind of miserable prick.

with Thomas, Peart and Lemieux (and the rookie free agents) was limited camp, no minicamp and no preseason games.

I think we will be fine I expect a Vet to be signed as insurance

In comment 15251236 giant power said:

Quote:

Remember he had Covid last year as did Peart, a definite set back for both. Let the dam season play out before you hit the panic button. If they suck, we have a ton of picks next year.

I have no proof of this, whatsoever, but I will not be surprised at all if it comes out Hernandez suffered long covid as a result of his infection.

In comment 15251279 giants#1 said:

Quote:

In comment 15251273 bLiTz 2k said: Quote: Fulton isn't a terrible pickup either...Watched Skinners film breakdown of him, and hes a smart player who should help the young guys in the stunt pickup game. His technique is a little off, but I'd wager he's going to give legit competition at RG. I'd also like to point out that many believe Zeitler had a big drop off in 2020 from 2019. Not to keep quoting Skinner, (but I enjoy his film breakdowns better than most), "Zeitler went from not having a bad rep in 2019, to having entire bad games in 2020." I still think hes a very good player, but in 2019 he was clearly their best offensive player. 2020 that was not the case. When breaking down the film and weighing in cost, it was an easy cut IMO. If Lemiuex us going to win out at guard, he needs to fix his feet. This is the interior player that would benefit the most from being coached up this off-season. As for Peart, i remember (I think it was Nagy from the senior bowl) saying that he might be better as a LT and Thomas at RT. Not saying the Giants do this, but in the snaps that Peart came in for Thomas on the left side, I was very impressed. They clearly have options there, and I wouldn't want to move your 4th overall pick to the right side, but many are very high on Peart as a plus starting tackle in this league once he develops. The proof is going to be in the pudding, but it's not unreasonable to expect (yes EXPECT) these 2nd year guys to improve dramatically. Haven't seen Skinner's recaps of the OL play since the season ended, but he was also very high on Zeitler all year and made mention in almost every OL review that Zeitler got a bad rap from fans. Maybe he was vintage Zeitler, but based on the OL reviews, I'd guess Skinner had him as a top 2 OL on this team last year (with Gates).

Check out their OL in review pod. They start talking Zeitler at about 56min..again still a very good player, but I think he makes some good points.
Talkin' Giants YT - ( New Window )

that I am more in the glass "half empty" crowd. Every time we have tried to improve it since the breakdown of our core line from 05-11 (although it was starting to falter in 11) it has not really worked. Gettleman can have confidence in the Peart and Lemieux and Thomas and that is is his job, but I, as a fan, am still in the prove it mode.

And, of course, all the nice weapons we got for Jones won't mean squat if we can't protect Jones. In fact, I would say that getting skill players was a Reese solution to fix a bad Line, which never worked. Now, if Gettleman made the correct judgment that our offensive line is about to shine, we are going to have a good football team. If he is wrong, the team will probably have another weak season. Praying Gettleman was right, but think the question is far from settled (and that is really why I can't get too crazy excited about the off season additions until I see improvement on the offensive line in game play this year).

resurgence and progression of our young OL. By the time we ended with Dallas, the line looked line a complete NFL line. My only concern which is a legit concern is the right side, specifically RG.

In comment 15251212 Milton said:

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What makes you say Peart is a smart kid?

Peart comes from a family of teachers, was tabbed by a selective program that identifies kids of promise and sends them to academic boarding schools. He went there for four years, grades 9-12. I know the program and the school quite well.
Peart's path - ( New Window )

In comment 15251372 BigBlueJ said:

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resurgence and progression of our young OL. By the time we ended with Dallas, the line looked line a complete NFL line. My only concern which is a legit concern is the right side, specifically RG.

They gave up 14 sacks in the final 3 games.

Please accept my apology, the "panic button" statement was probably warranted for some of the other daily threads bashing the OL in here. So let me elaborate my point this way. I take a holistic approach to building a football team. The Giant front office is not assembling an OL, they are building an entire football team. This roster was in complete tatters 3 years ago.

Eric posted a thread just above this one with a 53 player projected roster. Compare that to the roster 3 years ago, the entire roster has been turned over. There are only so many assets to be allocated each offseason. In my humble opinion, the only way the Giants could have impacted the OL in a big way in this draft would have been to pick Vera-Tucker at pick 11 to play guard. We do that and we don't have the extra draft capital next year and we don't have Toney. Pick someone with our second pick who may not be any better than what we already have, and no Ojulari. We needed an edge rusher badly.

I know what I prefer, how about you. Vera-Tucker would be great, so would a lot of other players on the board. Unfortunately, we only get a few picks. I think the Giants made the right choice, those extra picks next year are going to huge. We invested three picks last year in the OL. They are young, they are just starting their careers. Let's see how they progress this season. This is a work in progress for every unit on the team, not just the OL. I think too many people over think this stuff in here. The Giant FO has made their decisions and this is it, period. This is the team we are going to war with for this season. Is it a finished product, no. Are we winning the bowl, probably not. And I do not care. I just want to enjoy the season, see improvement across the board and see how many of our young players improve and become really good football players. Then, after the end of next season, analyze are weakness and finish this roster off in next year's draft. I think we are only one more off-season away from becoming a serious contender to win it all.

So, my original point was simple: If the OL does not play well and that unit proves to be the one in most need of an upgrade, we have lots of draft capital next year to deal with the problem. This all comes with one giant caveat, Daniel Jones has to show he is the goods or we might be using our assets to invest in something else.

In comment 15251408 Ten Ton Hammer said:

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In comment 15251372 BigBlueJ said: Quote: resurgence and progression of our young OL. By the time we ended with Dallas, the line looked line a complete NFL line. My only concern which is a legit concern is the right side, specifically RG. They gave up 14 sacks in the final 3 games.

The Cards got what 8 sacks in a game with a QB that shouldn't even have been out there.

They are subpar at pass blocking, but they are above average at run blocking. This is going to be an offense that flows through the run game. This isn't the dire crap we've thrown out there the past decade. At least this version of OL does something well. We'll be fine as long as we don't get too far behind in football games, which if you look at the defense, isn't going to happen often. I really like how we've built this football team. Next year will be the year to address the OL with premium picks again. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 1st round guard next year, and would have been this year if they didn't trade back.

which suggests Peart is at least on schedule to push Solder at RT. Not resting on laurels with the three interior OL spots, expect more to be done inside whether it's this offseason or next. Can't address all the roster needs in one offseason.

And u can’t draft need all the time
Really like first 4 picks Is toney a need? Sure. But he was also gonna be the first pick of either the jags or saints ,so it wasn’t a reach at all
Ojulari? Too early at 11, possibly a consideration at 20. To get him at 50. Love it
Conviction going after Robinson. As SY states, he hates his opponents
Had me at hello with that one
Love the boom or bust pick in rd 4. Lotsa tools to work with and big time small school production

6 rd picks. Meh. But what do I know
Gotta trust JJ re: what he is seeing at oline.
In reality, just need some positive progression from rookies and we could be fairly capable. Did flash at times last yr for sure with running game

In comment 15251566 giant power said:

Quote:

Please accept my apology, the "panic button" statement was probably warranted for some of the other daily threads bashing the OL in here. So let me elaborate my point this way. I take a holistic approach to building a football team. The Giant front office is not assembling an OL, they are building an entire football team. This roster was in complete tatters 3 years ago. Eric posted a thread just above this one with a 53 player projected roster. Compare that to the roster 3 years ago, the entire roster has been turned over. There are only so many assets to be allocated each offseason. In my humble opinion, the only way the Giants could have impacted the OL in a big way in this draft would have been to pick Vera-Tucker at pick 11 to play guard. We do that and we don't have the extra draft capital next year and we don't have Toney. Pick someone with our second pick who may not be any better than what we already have, and no Ojulari. We needed an edge rusher badly. I know what I prefer, how about you. Vera-Tucker would be great, so would a lot of other players on the board. Unfortunately, we only get a few picks. I think the Giants made the right choice, those extra picks next year are going to huge. We invested three picks last year in the OL. They are young, they are just starting their careers. Let's see how they progress this season. This is a work in progress for every unit on the team, not just the OL. I think too many people over think this stuff in here. The Giant FO has made their decisions and this is it, period. This is the team we are going to war with for this season. Is it a finished product, no. Are we winning the bowl, probably not. And I do not care. I just want to enjoy the season, see improvement across the board and see how many of our young players improve and become really good football players. Then, after the end of next season, analyze are weakness and finish this roster off in next year's draft. I think we are only one more off-season away from becoming a serious contender to win it all. So, my original point was simple: If the OL does not play well and that unit proves to be the one in most need of an upgrade, we have lots of draft capital next year to deal with the problem. This all comes with one giant caveat, Daniel Jones has to show he is the goods or we might be using our assets to invest in something else.

Agree on all of that.

In comment 15251585 Zeke's Alibi said:

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In comment 15251408 Ten Ton Hammer said: Quote: In comment 15251372 BigBlueJ said: Quote: resurgence and progression of our young OL. By the time we ended with Dallas, the line looked line a complete NFL line. My only concern which is a legit concern is the right side, specifically RG. They gave up 14 sacks in the final 3 games. The Cards got what 8 sacks in a game with a QB that shouldn't even have been out there. They are subpar at pass blocking, but they are above average at run blocking. This is going to be an offense that flows through the run game. This isn't the dire crap we've thrown out there the past decade. At least this version of OL does something well. We'll be fine as long as we don't get too far behind in football games, which if you look at the defense, isn't going to happen often. I really like how we've built this football team. Next year will be the year to address the OL with premium picks again. Wouldn't be surprised to see a 1st round guard next year, and would have been this year if they didn't trade back.

6 sacks in the cards game, another 6 in the game after, and two more in the Dallas game. The run numbers weren't much prettier either, except in Dallas which was a dead team floating, if I recall correctly.

"just take OL" doesn't compute for me. It is how we wound up with Flowers, Richburg, and Pugh. The latter was the "best" of those players and he is an average NFL starter. A first round pick no less. We hung on to those players for way too long simply because of where they were drafted, and it cost us years of being competitive. 3-4 years maybe.

NYG identified OL talent in the 2020 draft. Their board went that way. If it wasn't Thomas, it would have likely been Wills or Wirfs. Thomas looked the part with a foot injury that we never heard a peep about, he seems to be a building block. Gates struggled mightily but then looked solid, another building block. It was clear from day 1 that Peart was not going to be an everyday starter in 2020, so what did they do? They sprinklered him in, got him experience at both LT and RT, and he held up well. Gil Brandt said it was one of the better picks of the whole draft and he projects well. A far cry from NYG regimes in the past where A) they would just insert a guy just because or B) never play the guy. I am not giving up on Hernandez just yet. He has been really up and down, mostly an average NFL starter. Not a building block really but someone who can be solid if he gets his shit together. Lemieux was a nice 5th round pick, provides that nasty on the OL and has a ton of room to grow. Hell, we had 3 guys on our best OL ever that were picked lower than him. Solder - we are making the best of a bad situation. I don't expect anything from him, if he can play OK as a swing I'll call that a win for 2021.

We can use draft capital to draft OL in 2022 if need be, especially since Hernandez and Solder might be gone. We can see if we "need" an upgrade at any of the positions, but this group started to gel a bit in the second half. They kicked Seattle's ass up and down the field, played really well in week 17 against Dallas. They played well in the division, including both games against WFT who apparently has the greatest D line ever assembled according to the media.

We have done a nice job of finally getting talent and depth to match up. Yes, perhaps OL might be the weakest position in terms of depth on the team, but we have 5-6 guys who can play and 3 of them will be playing their positions for the 2nd season this coming year.

Stay the course.

good perspective and post. I think we'll see more changes on the interior OL between now and the start of the 2022 season. If would help a great deal if Peart wins the RT spot, suspect we'll need two interior OL to at least provide competition and depth.

2020's version of the OL was better than people think. And the majority were 1st year players.

Just because they gave up 6 sacks to Arizona and Baltimore does not mean they were a bad unit. I think they were middle of the road, an average unit. Had some good games and some bad ones.

But Jones had time to throw, especially on play action, more so than any other year I can remember probably dating back to the 2016 playoff year, and even then we didn't have a good OL.

In comment 15251698 JonC said:

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good perspective and post. I think we'll see more changes on the interior OL between now and the start of the 2022 season. If would help a great deal if Peart wins the RT spot, suspect we'll need two interior OL to at least provide competition and depth.

yep, and to think, in 2019 the OL unit was looking extremely bleak. We have turned it around nicely with an infusion of draft picks, and have not spent a dime on a free agent after the Solder fiasco. I agree that the interior will be a priority.

one last point. Let's say we stayed at 11 and drafted AVT. It would have been nice, I liked him a lot. But then we likely are still weak at WR and don't have the extra draft capital in 2022, a 1st rounder no less. If we draft WR in round 2, then we still are really lacking at edge. The dominoes fall where they may during the draft and you have to adapt, which NYG did well.

I think it was a good move.

In comment 15251720 ryanmkeane said:

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one last point. Let's say we stayed at 11 and drafted AVT. It would have been nice, I liked him a lot. But then we likely are still weak at WR and don't have the extra draft capital in 2022, a 1st rounder no less. If we draft WR in round 2, then we still are really lacking at edge. The dominoes fall where they may during the draft and you have to adapt, which NYG did well. I think it was a good move.

Feel the same way, but I think we can almost book that one of those 1st round picks is going to be spent on an IOL. The nice part about drafting guys that play guard, is if you really want to fix the spot with a good player, they usually can be had in first round because of positional value. If our young guys progress that sets us up very nice for a long time.

knows what they have at OL. Teams are always going to mix BPA with need in the draft. I wanted the team to draft OL as I think it would be a disaster if the OL is subpar this year with decisions needed to be made re: Jones and Barkley. Obviously the team feels differently.

Read my post a few above yours. You and I are on the same page. Like what you said a lot. Our FO needs to take a measured approach when evaluating players. We just acquired most of these guys to compete on the OL the last few years. Let's give them a chance to prove themselves before we go throwing more valuable assets at the unit, especially when there are other areas of concern on the roster that need to be addressed.

In comment 15251699 ryanmkeane said:

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2020's version of the OL was better than people think. And the majority were 1st year players. Just because they gave up 6 sacks to Arizona and Baltimore does not mean they were a bad unit. I think they were middle of the road, an average unit. Had some good games and some bad ones. But Jones had time to throw, especially on play action, more so than any other year I can remember probably dating back to the 2016 playoff year, and even then we didn't have a good OL.

I can't say I agree. Giving up 45 sacks is flat bad.

If the total number doesn't move you, jones was sacked on 9.1% of his pass attempts. In 2019, that number was 7.6.

They were worse. We can chalk that up to playing rookies, but two guys who project to get more playing time this season are Hernandez and Solder, who were already questionable with pass protection.

In comment 15251366 Essex said:

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that I am more in the glass "half empty" crowd. Every time we have tried to improve it since the breakdown of our core line from 05-11 (although it was starting to falter in 11) it has not really worked. Gettleman can have confidence in the Peart and Lemieux and Thomas and that is is his job, but I, as a fan, am still in the prove it mode. And, of course, all the nice weapons we got for Jones won't mean squat if we can't protect Jones. In fact, I would say that getting skill players was a Reese solution to fix a bad Line, which never worked. Now, if Gettleman made the correct judgment that our offensive line is about to shine, we are going to have a good football team. If he is wrong, the team will probably have another weak season. Praying Gettleman was right, but think the question is far from settled (and that is really why I can't get too crazy excited about the off season additions until I see improvement on the offensive line in game play this year).

Don't overlook what effect having a complete array of playmakers can have on the overall effectiveness of the o-line.

In comment 15253339 River Mike said:

Quote:

In comment 15251366 Essex said: Quote: that I am more in the glass "half empty" crowd. Every time we have tried to improve it since the breakdown of our core line from 05-11 (although it was starting to falter in 11) it has not really worked. Gettleman can have confidence in the Peart and Lemieux and Thomas and that is is his job, but I, as a fan, am still in the prove it mode. And, of course, all the nice weapons we got for Jones won't mean squat if we can't protect Jones. In fact, I would say that getting skill players was a Reese solution to fix a bad Line, which never worked. Now, if Gettleman made the correct judgment that our offensive line is about to shine, we are going to have a good football team. If he is wrong, the team will probably have another weak season. Praying Gettleman was right, but think the question is far from settled (and that is really why I can't get too crazy excited about the off season additions until I see improvement on the offensive line in game play this year). Don't overlook what effect having a complete array of playmakers can have on the overall effectiveness of the o-line.

Agreed..Haven’t seen you around much, Mike. Hope you’re well..

thank you Doc. Been occupied with some of life's potholes and pitfalls, but I came back here to my team and my friends a few weeks ago and have enjoyed being on here for the draft. I hope you also are doing well.