He took over as GM in 2018. They finished poorly in 2018 at 6-9-1, but fired Mike McCarthy, and hired Lafleur. Since that, they've gone 26-6 and made it to the NFC Championship Game twice. So total record since being hired is 32-15-1 and 2 back to back NFC Championships in 3 seasons.
I know Love was a controversial pick last year, and I understand why, but almost the rest of that entire draft was spent on offense, mainly to protect Rodgers... RB, TE, G, and C were all picked after Love.
Gutenkunst has been with Green Bay since 1998:
-(1998–2011) Scout
-(2012–2015) Director of college scouting
-(2016–2017) Director of player personnel
-(2018-present) General manager
Seems like a natural, in house ascent that he was groomed for. Also looking at his past three drafts they don't really deviate from what Green Bay was doing under Ted Thompson, whom he undoubtedly learned everything from and was mentored by.
Is Rodgers beef really about the GM's performance or is it exclusively about Love?
Because if it's exclusively about Love it seems like a bad move to try and upset the apple cart of a franchise that front office that has been humming along for a long time, successfully. Even if Rodgers gets his wish (which I doubt) and they fire the GM, will he really be around long enough to see the repercussions of such a move?
Seems to me that if he wanted more money, and what you all are saying is true about him being treated like a bum in his contract, he could simply say he wants more money vs. telling the franchise they need to fire the GM, no?
I mean, he did take them to two NFC Championships and won the MVP, so he'd have a case.
or, he could played out his deal and gone FA like Brady did.
Rodgers has a lot of leverage - with him GB is a 13-3 title contender. Without him...?
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With this GM?
Seems to me that if he wanted more money, and what you all are saying is true about him being treated like a bum in his contract, he could simply say he wants more money vs. telling the franchise they need to fire the GM, no?
I mean, he did take them to two NFC Championships and won the MVP, so he'd have a case.
or, he could played out his deal and gone FA like Brady did.
He only got to free agency because the Pats let him. If the Pats wanted to keep Brady, he's still be in New England. Unrestricted free agency is almost never an option for franchise QBs.
But demanding the GM be fired or you're going to retire is over the top.
Keep it about the money.
We don't know Rodgers demanded the GM be fired. We don't even know he's demanded a trade. These are rumors based on unnamed sources.
But demanding the GM be fired or you're going to retire is over the top.
Keep it about the money.
I do think it's about the money. I listened to a podcast with Rodgers after the season, and he did talk about working on an extension with GB, and I think he is pretty frustrated that it hasn't gotten done yet.
And I agree, asking for the GM to be fired is beyond the pale. And if reports are true that Rodgers responded to GM and HC's saying they love him by saying that "Love is the problem", then he's throwing his teammate under the bus for no reason.
I get the trade demand if he feels GB is dragging its feet on an extension, but dragging Love into this unnecessarily is ridiculous.
But demanding the GM be fired or you're going to retire is over the top.
Keep it about the money.
It is legitimate. Not suggesting he is doing this in a way that will not cause a stir, but sounds like he wasn't getting what he wanted in thru other means, so...
As suggested, football fans not liking him shouldn't blur the fact how Green Bay is really screwing this up...
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With this GM?
Seems to me that if he wanted more money, and what you all are saying is true about him being treated like a bum in his contract, he could simply say he wants more money vs. telling the franchise they need to fire the GM, no?
I mean, he did take them to two NFC Championships and won the MVP, so he'd have a case.
or, he could played out his deal and gone FA like Brady did.
He could get cut out any moment after June 1st. He has no job security, even with performance. He's been doing Packers a favor by signing longer extensions and then they pull the rug out from him by drafting Love, especially with how his contract is structured. Brady was signing 1 or 2 year deals for a while under the Pats at that point because both sides new the deal. Rogers is 37 with no signs of slowing down, so of course he signed a long extension three years ago.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
For the record, I am not one that has compared Eli Manning's situation in any way, shape, or form to Aaron Rodgers situation on this thread, or anywhere else really.
But that said, if Rodgers was demanding a trade, that's fair. My whole issue is the notion that Rodgers demand the GM be fired over this perceived slight.
If Rodgers were asking for more money, or to be traded, I would not have an issue with it.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
Exactly.
Player a) One guy has 3 league MVPs, 1 Superbowl and took his team to the conference finals in back to back years. He's substantial leverage to force a trade or new deal. He's a pansy malcontent and should be grateful.
Player b) Forced a draft day trade having played zero NFL downs. Class act. Wise. Gamer.
But the difference is that they are demanding anybody lose their job, they are using their leverage in the usual way, trade me or pay me.
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Eli Manning in comparison to Rodgers but I think you're comparing the wrong thing about the two. What Rodgers is doing now is not comparable to the end of Eli's career, but the beginning.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
Exactly.
Player a) One guy has 3 league MVPs, 1 Superbowl and took his team to the conference finals in back to back years. He's substantial leverage to force a trade or new deal. He's a pansy malcontent and should be grateful.
Player b) Forced a draft day trade having played zero NFL downs. Class act. Wise. Gamer.
You are creating a straw man argument that doesn't exist on this thread.
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Eli Manning in comparison to Rodgers but I think you're comparing the wrong thing about the two. What Rodgers is doing now is not comparable to the end of Eli's career, but the beginning.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
For the record, I am not one that has compared Eli Manning's situation in any way, shape, or form to Aaron Rodgers situation on this thread, or anywhere else really.
But that said, if Rodgers was demanding a trade, that's fair. My whole issue is the notion that Rodgers demand the GM be fired over this perceived slight.
If Rodgers were asking for more money, or to be traded, I would not have an issue with it.
Fair, but I thought i read their was a meeting with Rodgers the GM and HC and they agreed to trade Rodgers, but then the GM rejected the SF offer (allegedly) and set the price tag at a point where a trade became unrealistic.
I think that's why Rodgers wants him fired, but I can't keep up with the drama (so I may be off a little)
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In comment 15251599 pjcas18 said:
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Eli Manning in comparison to Rodgers but I think you're comparing the wrong thing about the two. What Rodgers is doing now is not comparable to the end of Eli's career, but the beginning.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
Exactly.
Player a) One guy has 3 league MVPs, 1 Superbowl and took his team to the conference finals in back to back years. He's substantial leverage to force a trade or new deal. He's a pansy malcontent and should be grateful.
Player b) Forced a draft day trade having played zero NFL downs. Class act. Wise. Gamer.
You are creating a straw man argument that doesn't exist on this thread.
It's not a strawman. I'm making a comparison of two NFL QBs using leverage to change their circumstances to point out the lack of objectivity of fans. The major distinction in those two instances is that one was a NYG and the other is not.
Much of the NFL is about timing and circumstance, its a drum that I beat a lot and usually its easy to spot. You've got all the top tier QB's playing for the Andy Reid, Bill Belichick, Sean Peyton, and Mike Tomlin's of the world and then you have that big oaf Mike McCarthy who should be cutting checks to Rodgers in perpetuity for playing well enough to stay employed for so long.
And the reason I know that, is we have had it numerous times...
I'm making the argument based on sentiments of posters on this thread who would never think to criticize a NYG legend. Guess what? Packers fans feel the same way about Rodgers.
And all of of would likely do what Rodgers is doing now were we in his position.
At this point, he's won a Super Bowl, MVP's, honors, etc. He's lost confidence in his organization, since the Packer Front Office was looking to replace him in a year or so with the trade up for Love. You don't use a high draft choice on a QB in 2021 without intending to replace the current QB, as Dalton will find out in Chicago.
The Packer Front Office apparently never thought Rodgers would have the year he had last year. That's why Rodgers is trying to force a change in the Packer Front Office, or force a trade while his value is at it's highest. There's no trust at this point between the parties, or confidence by Rodgers about the organization's ability to bring in talent.
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In comment 15251489 Britt in VA said:
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With this GM?
Seems to me that if he wanted more money, and what you all are saying is true about him being treated like a bum in his contract, he could simply say he wants more money vs. telling the franchise they need to fire the GM, no?
I mean, he did take them to two NFC Championships and won the MVP, so he'd have a case.
or, he could played out his deal and gone FA like Brady did.
He only got to free agency because the Pats let him. If the Pats wanted to keep Brady, he's still be in New England. Unrestricted free agency is almost never an option for franchise QBs.
You negotiate into the contract that the Green Bay Packers are not permitted to Franchise or Transition Tag Rodgers at the end of the Contract. That is permitted by CBA.
Is this the same GM who drafted TE Tonyan? That guy was a true steal!
And the RB? Jones was another steal.
As we know Rodgers can hold a grudge. Guy won't even talk to his mother. Id bet on him not coming back to GB.
Is this the same GM who drafted TE Tonyan? That guy was a true steal!
And the RB? Jones was another steal.
As we know Rodgers can hold a grudge. Guy won't even talk to his mother. Id bet on him not coming back to GB.
Tee Higgins, with nobody to take pressure off of him and PS fodder for almost half the year at QB, still managed 67 receptions for 908 yards and 6 TD's.
I think Rodgers' frustration stems from a few things:
1. The org's patience with McCarthy when Rodgers, by all accounts, didn't like/respect him for quite a while. I think he feels they wasted a LOT of his career (and many, myself included, have always thought the same).
2. The 2020 draft - Rodgers (rightly so) felt the team was very close. They got basically zero impact from the draft. As others have noted, in a notably deep WR draft, a position of need for that team for some time...they instead decided they were cool rolling with Marquez Valding Scandling, Equanimeous St. Brown, and Allan Lazard behind Davante Adams. They used their first three picks on a QB, an RB (despite having Aaron Jones and Jamaal Williams on the roster), and an undersized TE/H-back. It was an objectively awful draft given where they were as a team. I think it was meant as an intentional message to Rodgers that they weren't going to let him run the team. At best, even assuming they weren't playing games/sending messages, they made an organizational decision to approach the draft with a long-term view. Even if that's the case, they went too far and ignored some opportunities to help in the short term and build long term.
3. The contract situation, though I think that's likely resolved by now if he were happier.
His notable picks are Jaire Alexander in the first round in 2018 (objectively great pick) and MVS and St. Brown in rounds 5 and 6 in 2018. Essentially zero production from any other guys he's picked.
He’s not playing, that’s the point. Instead of trying to improve the chances to win the SB with Rodgers under contract, they chose to plan for life without him.
That’s fine but in this era of football you can’t really have both. The days of sitting for 2-3 years like Rodgers did are gone.
His notable picks are Jaire Alexander in the first round in 2018 (objectively great pick) and MVS and St. Brown in rounds 5 and 6 in 2018. Essentially zero production from any other guys he's picked.
He didn't draft them, but let's not pretend he had nothing to do with it... Like I said earlier, this isn't some outsider that came in and decided to shake things up:
-(1998–2011) Scout
-(2012–2015) Director of college scouting
-(2016–2017) Director of player personnel
-(2018-present) General manager
Drafting Love over Tee Higgins did not hold them back.
People most often quit their job because of their boss rather than the company. Not uncommon.
People most often quit their job because of their boss rather than the company. Not uncommon.
Did you ever try to use your clout to demand that your boss get fired?
Drafting Love over Tee Higgins did not hold them back.
And let's say all those numbers improved with Higgins. What really held them back was Bakhtari getting hurt, but having a guy like Higgins could have taken some pressure off the offensive line. Tough to have a quick passing attack with the guys they have behind Adams. Take away Adams and relying on those guys to consistently win 1 v 1 battles is a losing proposition.
Drafting Love over Tee Higgins did not hold them back.
I don’t know it necessarily means offense. Their secondary was pitiful - I’m sure more talent there instead of Love riding the pine would be preferred.
I think we assume Rodgers is bitching about offense but it could just be that they punted their pick to help at all right now, which is clear as day.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
When did Eli demand that his supervisors be fired? I don't see the situations as comparable.
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or whiny. He is exercising the leverage he has. If the Packers decline they can force him to pay back money if he retires while the team explodes or meet his demands. It just is what it is. When I was young man and the best salesman my company had by a large margin, I could have gotten a manager fired if I threatened to work for the competition. I had the talent, I was a closer, I did whatever I wanted.
People most often quit their job because of their boss rather than the company. Not uncommon.
Did you ever try to use your clout to demand that your boss get fired?
The NFL is not an average work place. Nobody signs contracts like these guys and if you don't like what's going on, you leave. Rogers signed his contract in good faith and all of a sudden they draft a QB in the first round with 4 years left on his deal.
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Green Bay led the league in points scored, passing TDs, AY/A, and passing TD%. They had the best record in the NFC, and were in a coin flip game to go to the Super Bowl.
Drafting Love over Tee Higgins did not hold them back.
I don’t know it necessarily means offense. Their secondary was pitiful - I’m sure more talent there instead of Love riding the pine would be preferred.
I think we assume Rodgers is bitching about offense but it could just be that they punted their pick to help at all right now, which is clear as day.
Agreed. Any position could have helped more in 2020 than QB. Backup tackle in a deep tackle draft, more secondary help, another receiver or TE...whatever.
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Eli Manning in comparison to Rodgers but I think you're comparing the wrong thing about the two. What Rodgers is doing now is not comparable to the end of Eli's career, but the beginning.
Rodgers trying to force a trade is in some ways similar to Eli saying he wouldn't play for the Chargers.
I think if you support Eli's (or any player) right to say what situation is right for them for any reason, you should support Rodgers decision to demand a trade (if he has even done that).
When did Eli demand that his supervisors be fired? I don't see the situations as comparable.
k
But this has been handled poorly by both sides.
I don't think Love was worth a first, especially trading up to get him, but I understood the thinking from a long term perspective.
If AaRod wants to win desperately why does he want a bigger contract? Why wouldn't he follow the Brady blueprint at this point at this point?
I think both sides need a divorce at this point.
This is not about whether Rodgers has the right to demand more money, he does, or whether he has the right to hold out, he does, or be traded.
This was strictly about his demand of the GM being fired.
GB barely signs FA anyway which is another problem.
+1, they've had a tendency to make crucial mistakes in big spots against the best teams. Cannot assume it gets fixed by drafting a WR.
I'd say the error was in not communicating openly with AR regarding the draft pick of the QB. Plus, the contract talk would indicate he wants a Mahomes-level contract. The rest of it sounds like AR and his frustration/insecurity/anger working itself out in the public eye. An extension may or may not fix the damage here either.
This is not about whether Rodgers has the right to demand more money, he does, or whether he has the right to hold out, he does, or be traded.
This was strictly about his demand of the GM being fired.
I don't know if he should have it or not...but he does. He's an all-time great player that makes a massive difference in wins and losses...far more than the GM, head coach, or any other element of that organization.
I've got no problems with him using that leverage to get what he wants.
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or whiny. He is exercising the leverage he has. If the Packers decline they can force him to pay back money if he retires while the team explodes or meet his demands. It just is what it is. When I was young man and the best salesman my company had by a large margin, I could have gotten a manager fired if I threatened to work for the competition. I had the talent, I was a closer, I did whatever I wanted.
People most often quit their job because of their boss rather than the company. Not uncommon.
Did you ever try to use your clout to demand that your boss get fired?
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that this is whether or not you think Rodgers should have the clout over the organization to demand that the GM be fire. Period, point blank.
This is not about whether Rodgers has the right to demand more money, he does, or whether he has the right to hold out, he does, or be traded.
This was strictly about his demand of the GM being fired.
I don't know if he should have it or not...but he does. He's an all-time great player that makes a massive difference in wins and losses...far more than the GM, head coach, or any other element of that organization.
I've got no problems with him using that leverage to get what he wants.
Well we'll see if he has it or not.
GB barely signs FA anyway which is another problem.
not to take this in the wrong direction, but the TB12 stuff is tin foil hat conspiracy theory land-ish. There has never been one shred of evidence I have seen that Kraft "funded" TB12 and not sure what the "other things" even are.
TB12, inc. revenues are around $3M annually and supports 20 employees. That's what it took to get Brady to take a below market deal?
Knowing what we know about spygate - don't you think one former Pats FO/Exec would somehow let it leak this happening or even better yet try and set up an Arod12 (or Jones6 or Wilson3, Mahomes15 - you see where I'm going) nutrition company (or any business really) for your QB or any player to get him to accept a below market deal?
Not singling you out Uconn, I've read the allegations on here from many people and if this were a different topic the conspiracy theorists would be mocked incessantly.