I really liked the draft. I was a Waddle guy, every person that liked Waddle to NY loves this draft. I will not explain why, it should be obvious. The picks for next year are huge. Very valuable. More players and more information on the players against better competition.
I liked every single pick.
I want to talk about Gettleman.
His bad choices were his choices and his good choices are Judge’s, I see as a theme on BBI.
There was an organizational change in power.
No, there was not.
How about, all GMs try to get the coaches players that they want? Sometimes they disagree and I think we hear about those. Dysfunctional GM/Coach relationships end in disaster.
DG’s mistake was hiring Shurmur. Being an adult was not a sufficient criteria for the head coach search. It is very easy for me to believe that Shurmur wanted Barkley or was willing to rubber stamp without challenge.
Have you ever made a bad hire? As an executive, HR and hiring are what I feel that I am exceptional at. It is not easy, and still, I have made some bad hires. The evidence is starting to pile up that Judge and DG make a good team. I see no need to push success on one of the pair to lessen the other. DG did not arrive a failure.
The NY Giants hired a GM that many of you did not want. You didn’t get your way. The results were poor. Your criticism was warranted. We had a widely respect draft this year. Give the organization credit and let’s see how it applies on the field in 2021.
I am excited.
its like this Green Bay fiasco with big baby rodgers, how come the GM gets all the blame? how do we know the coach didn't want a young QB to groom while rodgers is at the end of his career?
DG comes off as a condescending know it all. This might have worked in the 80s and 90s when he was coming up in the organization, but there were only 3 regional beat reporters and maybe a national reporter from SI or ESPN who showed up once in a while but it does not come off nearly as well in the Twitter-verse. Some people on BBI like it and some people hate it.
Honestly, I don't really care if DG is likeable or not, but his teams have won 15 games on his watch. You try to can put that record on coaches, players or just plain bad luck but at some point the buck stops with the guy making the decisions and that is DG. He went on a very long limb with Jones in 2019 and if the team does not win this year then he should do us all a favor and retire to Cape Cod.
The ability to lead. The fact that Judge canned Columbo in the middle of the years spoke volumes to me about Judge.
We hired the right guy.
DG gets the blame for Shurmur.
He also gets credit for Judge.
It probably doesn't hurt that the scouting part was not only ingrained in Judge while in NE, but it was almost his singular function wrt putting together the best ST possible.
More of 2020 and 2021, please.
DG comes off as a condescending know it all. This might have worked in the 80s and 90s when he was coming up in the organization, but there were only 3 regional beat reporters and maybe a national reporter from SI or ESPN who showed up once in a while but it does not come off nearly as well in the Twitter-verse. Some people on BBI like it and some people hate it.
Honestly, I don't really care if DG is likeable or not, but his teams have won 15 games on his watch. You try to can put that record on coaches, players or just plain bad luck but at some point the buck stops with the guy making the decisions and that is DG. He went on a very long limb with Jones in 2019 and if the team does not win this year then he should do us all a favor and retire to Cape Cod.
If DG hired a 10 year head coach and Jones turns out to be a franchise QB, how will history feel about DG in New York?
I think we need to watch 2021. I personally felt 2020 was the first year we could hold DG accountable to the record because he would have players on their second and third years. Covid training camp and protocols stole a little bit of that accountability.
This is the year the rubber meets the road.
I am hopeful.
More of 2020 and 2021, please.
I've mentioned it before, but I think a good comparison is with Accorsi between Fassel and Coughlin. GMs tend to look much better when there is a coach with a plan who works with them in acquiring players.
I don't think Gettleman is being overruled by Judge or anything like that.
Holy shit.
I do think Judge has a big personality though combined with an extreme attention to detail. Judge comes from NE who has always traded down. So, I think he is providing a lot of strong opinions in process. I’m not so sure Shurmur was doing that as much.
The combination of Judge, Gettleman, Abrams & Pettit appears to be working well together.
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2018 and 2019 were incompetently handled. Something changed, and 2020 and 2021 have been competently handled.
More of 2020 and 2021, please.
That fits with Shurmur being a bad hire and Judge a good one? If he always takes input form the coach, that would fit.
Shurmur was a terrible hire, but those two years can't be pinned solely on him. And even if they can be, there are critical components of the roster (including QB) that were acquired using the poor 2018-2019 methodologies.
Gettleman took over in 2018; now after the 2020 season the roster is purged of all but 2 players that predate 2018: Shepard and Engram. I expect we'll see further churning, and in 2023 we'll only have 1 or 2 players that were on the roster in 2019.
If a rebuild is indeed taking place, 2020 with Judge is when it started. Still lots of work to do.
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In comment 15251658 Go Terps said:
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2018 and 2019 were incompetently handled. Something changed, and 2020 and 2021 have been competently handled.
More of 2020 and 2021, please.
That fits with Shurmur being a bad hire and Judge a good one? If he always takes input form the coach, that would fit.
Shurmur was a terrible hire, but those two years can't be pinned solely on him. And even if they can be, there are critical components of the roster (including QB) that were acquired using the poor 2018-2019 methodologies.
Gettleman took over in 2018; now after the 2020 season the roster is purged of all but 2 players that predate 2018: Shepard and Engram. I expect we'll see further churning, and in 2023 we'll only have 1 or 2 players that were on the roster in 2019.
If a rebuild is indeed taking place, 2020 with Judge is when it started. Still lots of work to do.
This year is all DG baby. Covid is not new anymore.
Terps all I saying at his point is that it is possible that DG is a good GM. It is till possible he is terrible. I think he likes to be cute with the media and it offends.
I have talked about hiring before on BBI. The most important trait I look for is the ability to be self critical and be self motivated to improve.
DG traded back. Cleary, he is using analytics and applying it to player acquisition. Look at all the DBs and WRs. I see reason for hope.
DG comes off as a condescending know it all. This might have worked in the 80s and 90s when he was coming up in the organization, but there were only 3 regional beat reporters and maybe a national reporter from SI or ESPN who showed up once in a while but it does not come off nearly as well in the Twitter-verse. Some people on BBI like it and some people hate it.
Honestly, I don't really care if DG is likeable or not, but his teams have won 15 games on his watch. You try to can put that record on coaches, players or just plain bad luck but at some point the buck stops with the guy making the decisions and that is DG. He went on a very long limb with Jones in 2019 and if the team does not win this year then he should do us all a favor and retire to Cape Cod.
When you consider the job DG has done the past two years, you also have to consider the possibility that the decision to move forward with Eli delayed this type of success.
I also believe it is highly possible any GM at that time might have been pressured to do the same
This rebuild started last season. In fact, the 2018 season not only delayed the rebuild but set the team back
My reason for hope is that one way or another Gettleman isn't long for this organization, and the people that figure to replace him seem like improvements. I expect his 2018 and 2019 mistakes aren't long for the organization either.
Among his other positive traits, Judge commands respect.
Shurmur wants to be in a corner designing plays.
That Gettleman was a bystander, albeit a very capable one, just waiting for his prince to show up in Judge to make a perfect pair.
Maybe you meant something else but that's my read...
That Gettleman was a bystander, albeit a very capable one, just waiting for his prince to show up in Judge to make a perfect pair.
Maybe you meant something else but that's my read...
DG hired Shurmur.
He gets that blame.
DG and Shurmur get the blame for what happened.
Shurmur got fired.
He hires Judge.
DG and Judge get credit for what is happening.
DG was not a bystander for Shurmur and he is not a bystander for Judge.
He got the first hire wrong and the second one correct.
We are witnessing the results.
JonC had it correct with the sausage analogy.
In a nutshell.
DG got too much blame and now Judge is getting too much credit.
It is almost as if people were mad that the NYG picked someone that was familiar to them rather than someone that was outside the organization and have made their opinions based on a personal agenda?
It is almost as if people were mad that the NYG picked someone that was familiar to them rather than someone that was outside the organization and have made their opinions based on a personal agenda?
My reason for hope is that one way or another Gettleman isn't long for this organization, and the people that figure to replace him seem like improvements. I expect his 2018 and 2019 mistakes aren't long for the organization either.
I ascribe some of it to Judge but a lot of it to a COVID year and how that changed everything about the evaluation and draft process (for both 2021 and 2022).
Turned around? The draft is promising but this was still a crappy 6-10 team last season.
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I have a hard time believing Gettleman changed his methods independently of Judge and O'Brien being introduced. I think it's just as likely that Gettleman is being phased out - but I have no idea.
My reason for hope is that one way or another Gettleman isn't long for this organization, and the people that figure to replace him seem like improvements. I expect his 2018 and 2019 mistakes aren't long for the organization either.
I ascribe some of it to Judge but a lot of it to a COVID year and how that changed everything about the evaluation and draft process (for both 2021 and 2022).
Not my point. Talking about them being strategic and different from some of the prior years. It might not be all Judge but a confluence of factors. But you go ahead and insist want you want. Not sure why we bother discussing because, it's something you seem not to be able to do.
Yes!
To the same degree?
Not close.
Young QB 2 years in, 2 coaches, 2 systems.
Young and new OL in new positions.
1st year, 1st time HC.
You think it possible that it was easier for team with veteran QB and coach that have been working together for years?
Miami - 10-6 (404 points scored)
LA Chargers - 7-9 (384)
Washington - 7-9 (335)
Giants - 6-10 (280)
COVID is a lame excuse for the offensive football the Giants played last year. Lame almost as the offense itself.
Putting aside the fact that the team hasn't shown it has turned around yet although we all hope and pray 2021 is much better. DG should definitely get some of the credit if it indeed happens, but 4 years isn't exactly "kicking ass and taking names". I am sure you feel differently.
Miami - 10-6 (404 points scored)
LA Chargers - 7-9 (384)
Washington - 7-9 (335)
Giants - 6-10 (280)
COVID is a lame excuse for the offensive football the Giants played last year. Lame almost as the offense itself.
Didn't Fitzpatrick play most of the season for Miami and Washington had Alex Smith play most of the year. Herbert is universally considered a top young QB and at least currently Jones is not on the same level.
Miami - 10-6 (404 points scored)
LA Chargers - 7-9 (384)
Washington - 7-9 (335)
Giants - 6-10 (280)
COVID is a lame excuse for the offensive football the Giants played last year. Lame almost as the offense itself.
Jesus, the topic was a shift in drafting process. All I was trying to point out was that in addition to Judge, the team's way of approaching the draft, including trading into next year's draft, could have been (and, IMO, *was*) influenced by COVID. They put great stock, as they emphasized this past weekend, on personal interviews at the combine and pro days. Plus, as was repeated numerous times this past weekend, this year's selection was overall thin and next year's is overall rich. Scouting was impaired this year and will be better this year. IMO, this made them very open to trying to gain capital next year.
Nothing from me about COVID and the team's performance this past year; just to be on topic about their draft approach.
This is behind The Athletic's paywall so hopefully this isn't too much:
As the Giants brass interviewed those candidates, each identified Judge as a coach they wanted to add to their prospective staffs. That got the attention of Mara, who researched Judge and became more intrigued after learning that the young coach had spent three years on Nick Saban’s staff at Alabama before joining the Patriots in 2012.
The Giants submitted a request to interview McDaniels again. And they added another request since they were planning to be in Foxboro after the Patriots’ wild-card game against the Titans.
“We figured if we’re going to go up there anyway, let’s see what this Joe Judge is all about,” Mara told The Athletic.
“I was coming out of running a meeting and I passed Bill in the hallway and he just kind of said, ‘Oh, by the way, a request came in and we can talk about it later,’” Judge said.
“He’s always been very fond of the Giants organization from his time here. It’s just a place you can tell is very special to him,” Judge said. “He said it’s a great place, you definitely want to go meet these people."
In a way as Giant fans we can thank Bill Belichick for all 4 of the Super Bowls the Giants have won. Hopefully we can thank him for a few more in my lifetime.
Miami - 10-6 (404 points scored)
LA Chargers - 7-9 (384)
Washington - 7-9 (335)
Giants - 6-10 (280)
COVID is a lame excuse for the offensive football the Giants played last year. Lame almost as the offense itself.
No excuses this year.
He wont need them, the window for firing DG is gone. Giants are going to win the division in 2022. DG will likely get to retire on his own terms, knowing he left us in a good place.
Don't get it twisted, I don't think he has been great. It is meh right now. I would have fired him at the end of the year. I said so. It did not happen and according to ownership, they kept DG liked the collaboration Looks like the reviled Mara may have it right. They killed the offseason in my opinion. I think Jones does better than 2019 in 2021.
Get ready. This is a team on the rise. I feel it in my bones.
2021 season starts with more offensive struggles. It becomes clear something is not working between Garrett, Jones, and the offensive line. Garrett is out as offensive coordinator at the bye. Jones continues to be poor in the pocket and hampers what could otherwise be a good team. By around Halloween we're regretting not getting a better backup than Glennon. Giants finish the season around 6-11/7-10, and enter the 2022 offseason with two top 10-ish picks to get their new QB, and do it right this time...with Judge's influence leading the way.
I agree it's a team on the rise. Just not in 2021.
This is behind The Athletic's paywall so hopefully this isn't too much:
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To explain how the Giants discovered Judge, whose one and only NFL head coaching interview came with the team last Jan. 6, one must go back two years earlier. Co-owner John Mara, general manager Dave Gettleman and assistant general manager Kevin Abrams traveled to Foxboro, Mass., on Jan. 5, 2018, to interview Patriots coordinators Matt Patricia and Josh McDaniels for the Giants’ head coaching vacancy.
As the Giants brass interviewed those candidates, each identified Judge as a coach they wanted to add to their prospective staffs. That got the attention of Mara, who researched Judge and became more intrigued after learning that the young coach had spent three years on Nick Saban’s staff at Alabama before joining the Patriots in 2012.
The Giants submitted a request to interview McDaniels again. And they added another request since they were planning to be in Foxboro after the Patriots’ wild-card game against the Titans.
“We figured if we’re going to go up there anyway, let’s see what this Joe Judge is all about,” Mara told The Athletic.
“I was coming out of running a meeting and I passed Bill in the hallway and he just kind of said, ‘Oh, by the way, a request came in and we can talk about it later,’” Judge said.
“He’s always been very fond of the Giants organization from his time here. It’s just a place you can tell is very special to him,” Judge said. “He said it’s a great place, you definitely want to go meet these people."
.
In a way as Giant fans we can thank Bill Belichick for all 4 of the Super Bowls the Giants have won. Hopefully we can thank him for a few more in my lifetime.
2021 season starts with more offensive struggles. It becomes clear something is not working between Garrett, Jones, and the offensive line. Garrett is out as offensive coordinator at the bye. Jones continues to be poor in the pocket and hampers what could otherwise be a good team. By around Halloween we're regretting not getting a better backup than Glennon. Giants finish the season around 6-11/7-10, and enter the 2022 offseason with two top 10-ish picks to get their new QB, and do it right this time...with Judge's influence leading the way.
I agree it's a team on the rise. Just not in 2021.
I just hope Mara understands the process and gives Judge a long leash. Mara needs to view Judge’s arrival as the beginning of a multi-year rebuild. Based on what transpired during the draft, I’m hopeful that is the strategy.
Sounds collaborative.
DG comes off as a condescending know it all. This might have worked in the 80s and 90s when he was coming up in the organization, but there were only 3 regional beat reporters and maybe a national reporter from SI or ESPN who showed up once in a while but it does not come off nearly as well in the Twitter-verse. Some people on BBI like it and some people hate it.
Honestly, I don't really care if DG is likeable or not, but his teams have won 15 games on his watch. You try to can put that record on coaches, players or just plain bad luck but at some point the buck stops with the guy making the decisions and that is DG. He went on a very long limb with Jones in 2019 and if the team does not win this year then he should do us all a favor and retire to Cape Cod.
Not to mention, just about all those wins have come against other bad football teams. DG has earned every bit of the criticism he gets. Lots of bad/questionable moves.
I'm a Judge fan and like the way he's changed the culture...BUT...he's still a 6-10 NFL HC (2 wins better than Shurmer), and more importantly, is going to have to move from a gimmicky HC (at times) to someone the players truly respect. Making assistant coaches run and rolling in the mud is cool...but players see through it at some point. It's also easier to make a relatively young roster buy in. As the roster gets older, how will they react to JJs schtick. Time will tell...
The roster feels much improved over last season. I was down on Jones through most of last season but feel like he was starting to improve until the injury. That was some critical evaluation time lost and he obviously came back a couple weeks too early and looked awful in that first game back. Looked better again once he healed up some more.
I'm hopeful right now and like him as a person and his positive traits as a player, but if he continues to be a turnover machine the team should rightfully move on using their 2 1st rounders next year. This will be the best set of skill players at his disposal in his entire football career. I don't think anyone at all can rightfully exclaim how it'll go at this point.
2021 season starts with more offensive struggles. It becomes clear something is not working between Garrett, Jones, and the offensive line. Garrett is out as offensive coordinator at the bye. Jones continues to be poor in the pocket and hampers what could otherwise be a good team. By around Halloween we're regretting not getting a better backup than Glennon. Giants finish the season around 6-11/7-10, and enter the 2022 offseason with two top 10-ish picks to get their new QB, and do it right this time...with Judge's influence leading the way.
I agree it's a team on the rise. Just not in 2021.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gls86MCtqcw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HO9mYM90-tU
Terps, that is like vanilla ice cream and hot fudge. Made for each other. Jones throws such a catchable ball. Healthy Barkley a TE that can block and catch. WHen the decision making gets ugly he is going to chuck it to Golloday. Good. Throw in some shovel passes and screens to Toney and those AY/A you like are going to go WAY up. Big plays baby.
Try and jump into the lake of hope, the water is nice.