The 2021 NFL Draft was a wild ride for New York Giants fans conditioned to the usually staid approach of the conservative franchise. I repeatedly warned fans before and during the early stages of the 1st round that New York’s obvious interest in the two Alabama receivers was going to cause another team to jump ahead of the Giants. Many Giants fans had become invested in these two players because the belief that Jaylen Waddle and Devonta Smith were 1a and 1b (or visa versa) on the team’s wish list, assuming tight end Kyle Pitts, wide receiver Ja’Marr Chase, and offensive tackle Penei Sewell were gone. Pitts went 4th, Chase 5th, Waddle 6th, and Sewell 7th. Giants fans became justifiably nervous. There were still three more selections before the Giants’ pick at #11. The two top corners went next, raising hopes with only one pick to go. However, the Dallas Cowboys lost their shot at Patrick Surtain and Jaycee Horn, and were now willing to trade down. They did. With the annoying Philadelphia Eagles, who most likely stole Smith from the Giants. Fans were pissed. Once again another team traded ahead of the Giants to take a player everyone knew they liked. And this time it was the fucking Eagles! It seemed like the entire draft was already disaster for the Giants.
Who would the team pick? Many fans had been lobbying for offensive lineman Rashawn Slater and linebacker Micah Parsons. There were rumors the Giants might select defensive lineman Kwity Paye or offensive lineman Alijah Vera-Tucker. Arguments could have been made for each of these players, but the trade up by the Eagles seemed to take the luster off of any consolation prize.
Then all of the sudden, word came the Giants traded down. What? Dave Gettleman never trades down. And his predecessor didn’t either. And nine spots?!! All the way to the 20th pick?!! That’s a big drop. What did they get in return? It had better be good! It was. They got a 5th round pick in this draft and a #1 and #4 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. Life was good again. Giants fans celebrated.
But who to pick at #20? The obvious blue chippers were long gone. So were Parsons, Slater, and Vera-Tucker. No other offensive lineman seemed worthy of the pick. Kwity Paye or linebacker Azeez Ojulari seemed like obvious options. But lurking in the back of my mind were two considerations: (1) this was widely regarded as a very deep draft at wide receiver, and (2) this was widely regarded as a not-so-impressive draft for edge pass rushers. Might the Giants look at Rashod Bateman? The Giants surprised most when they took wide receiver Kadarius Toney with the 20th overall selection.
It’s not that Toney wasn’t viewed as a 1st-round pick. He was. Urban Meyer has already said the Giants broke his heart because the Jaguars intended to draft him at #25. Toney’s “issues” fall into two categories: (1) some off-the field incidents related to guns and his interest in pursuing a music career, and (2) whether a “gadget” player – no matter how good – was worthy of a 1st-round investment. Many felt that with Joe Judge’s obsession with team culture, combined with the fiasco with cornerback Deandre Baker, would cause New York to not even consider Toney. Right or wrong, the team is clearly not overly concerned with Toney’s “character.” They met with him at the Senior Bowl and came away impressed.
The second “issue” is more of my own personal baggage. I’m still a bit of a mental prisoner to old-fashioned football. When you draft a wideout in the 1st round, I have held the belief that the guy has to start at the X or Z (outside) positions. A slot guy? Used much more in 2021 than 1991, but he had better be damned good! And a “gadget” player? Forget about it. A 1st-rounder on a player who may get 10 snaps a game?! Not a good investment.
This is where the game has changed. Depth charts mean less and less with each passing day, both on offense and defense. Not just because of who actually receives more snaps but also because “traditional” formations (i.e., one running back, one fullback, one tight end, two wide receivers) no longer apply. What matters is this: can Judge, Jason Garrett, and Freddie Kitchens figure out a way to best use Toney in combination with Kenny Golladay, Sterling Shepard, Darius Slayton, Evan Engram, and Saquon Barkley? Because Toney needs to touch the football. But so do the other five players. Beyond 2021, one could see Toney replacing Shepard in the slot given Shepard’s contract vis a vis performance to date.
So what do the Giants have in Toney? He has average size (6’0”, 193 pounds) and doesn’t seem to play as fast as he times (sub-4.4). But the guy is the very definition of a “make-you-miss” player. Toney plays bigger than his size, has the toughness of a running back, and miraculously gets away from tacklers on a consistent basis. His balance and run-after-the-catch ability are jaw dropping. Again, it’s not him running away from people the way Waddle does, but the way he jukes and contorts himself to avoid defenders. Some draft pundits questioned his hands, but he only had three dropped passes during his entire career at Florida. Many say he needs to work on the mental aspects of the game – reading defenses, route running. Those are not insignificant concerns, and if he is going to be a “regular” wide receiver, he will have get better at both. To justify this selection, Toney has to play more than a few snaps per game. It will be interesting to see how the coaching staff game plans for him. He can be used outside, in the slot, out of the backfield, on jet sweeps, on bubble screens, etc. A former high school quarterback, he can (and has) even throw the football on trick plays. Toney should also be strongly considered in the return game.
So scratch one need off of the wish list. It might not have been Waddle or Smith, but the Giants drafted a play-making wide receiver in the 1st round. Onto the other apparent needs – outside pass rushers and offensive linemen.
Day two arrives with the Giants picking 10th in the second round. Things appear to go New York’s way as three defensive backs, two defensive tackles, one wide receiver, one running back, and only two offensive linemen go in the first nine picks. The only “oh crap” moment comes when the Eagles draft center Landon Dickerson (who could also project to guard). Fucking Eagles. None of the edge rushers went. Giants are going to draft Ojulari, right?! What?! Another trade down?! What’s going on?! This is both exciting but also nerve-wracking. I want Ojulari and now we are going to lose him. What did we get in return for dropping down eight spots? Miami’s 3rd rounder in 2022. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. All of the sudden, we’ve added an additional #1, #3, and #4 in next year’s deeper and better-researched draft. That’s cool. But I wanted Ojulari.
Four more offensive linemen go. So if the Giants wanted to go that route, forget about it in round two. The run on that position started before #18. Three more defensive backs and another wideout. No big loss. Holy crap! Ojulari is still there. Something about concerns about a degenerative knee condition? If the Giants doctors are OK with it, I am. Draft him! They do. Now, I’m really happy. Ojulari is a guy who I thought would go in the 1st round was the best fit for what the Giants needed – a true 3-4-type pass rushing outside linebacker. If you told me the Giants would get him with the 50th overall section, I would have laughed at you. Ojulari has to refine additional pass rush moves, but the one he is a master of is damn good… his initial get off, hand slap, bend, and closing burst is very difficult for offensive tackles to handle. The major question on him is can he become a consistent pass-rush presence against big NFL tackles with quick feet. If he can, the Giants addressed a major need.
Round 3. Have to go offensive line, right? Not so fast. There have been whispers for weeks that the Giants don’t think their line is the train wreck. Do they want to add talent at the position? Yes. But they are not going to force the pick. The Giants still could use help at RB, DT, another edge rusher, linebacker, and maybe even in the secondary where they are one injury away from being in trouble. The League and the NFC East is loaded with good receivers. The Giants could use another corner. Aaron Robinson, who was supposed to be long gone, is still here. However, the other three teams in NFC East pick right before the Giants. Dallas and Philly still need help at corner. Wait?! What’s this?! Trader Dave Gettlemen is moving ahead of all three NFC East teams, giving up his newly-acquired 5th rounder, to select Robinson! What the hell is going on!? We learn later that the Eagles are damned pissed off they missed out on someone here. Revenge!
Robinson is a stud. He can play slot corner if Darnay Holmes remains too grabby or gets hurt. He and Holmes can both play slot corner if teams go four wide. He can also play outside. Robinson is an athlete, but he’s also a cocky son-of-a-bitch who hates the guy lining up over his head. Giants fans will love him. Fans of other teams will hate him. A strong New York secondary just became stronger. Isaac Yiadom is less likely to see the field.
Day three. Rounds 4-7 but the Giants only have three picks…one 4th rounder and two 6th rounders. Have to address the offensive line today, right? Nope. Giants go defense again, selecting edge rusher Elerson Smith, who didn’t play in 2020 because his team didn’t play due to COVID. Smith has an unusual build, very tall (6’6”) and lanky. He’s listed in the 260-pound range but looks too thin (similar in build to Jason Taylor of the Dolphins many years ago). However, he is another guy with a good initial quickness, bend, and closing burst. The Giants didn’t need one edge rusher, they needed two. Hopefully the got them in Ojulari and Smith. The competition for a roster spot and playing time will be fierce with Lorenzo Carter, Oshane Ximines, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson, Cam Brown, and Carter Coughlin. Carter and Ximines – the opening day starters who missed most of the season due to significant injuries – are definitely on the hot seat.
About 80 more players went off the board before New York picked again in the 6th round. The Giants take a running back, addressing a big depth need, but not a name that was expected. However, Judge makes it clear that Gary Brightwell was a special teams stud in college so the pick makes sense. He’s also an ascending player who was just beginning to receive more playing time but Arizona’s schedule was abbreviated to five games. He’s a no-nonsense, big back with some wiggle to his game, however he has to stop fumbling. Brightwell has a great shot to make the team because there isn’t much behind Barkley and Devontae Booker.
The last pick was a pure value pick. Rodarius Williams was supposed to be long gone. I’ve seen talk in The Forum that the soon-to-be 25-year old won’t be around a long time, so don’t worry about his age. I will tell you what, Williams is the kind of guy who could have a long NFL career. He’s another physical, aggressive corner who plays with a chip on his shoulder. I feel 100 percent better about our corner situation with both Robinson and Williams at the position. Knock on wood, but the Giants may have the best secondary in the NFL.
Summary: A few months ago, I whined (yes, literally whined) about how bad this roster was, especially on the offensive side of the ball. In a few months, the Giants have added:
-Two new back-ups behind Saquon Barkley (Devontae Booker and Gary Brightwell).
-Three new wide receivers (Kenny Golladay, Kadarius Toney, and John Ross).
-One new tight end (Kyle Rudolph)
-Two new offensive linemen (Zach Fulton and Jonotthan Harrison)
-A new nose tackle to help ameliorate the loss of Dalvin Tomlinson (Danny Shelton)
-Four new edge players (Azeez Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson)
-A new inside linebacker (Reggie Ragland)
-Three new corners (Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Rodarius Williams)
Holy shit. I always tell you guys that teams can only do so much in one offseason. Somehow the Giants crammed two offseasons into one, and also picked up an extra #1, #3, and #4 for next year’s draft.
The glaring omission? The offensive line. Gettleman said they were considering offensive line in the draft but they went before the team selected. So they do want to add more help there. But both Gettleman and Judge publicly say they are not as worried about the position as others. PR? Blind optimism? Or just maybe justifiable confidence? We shall see. The Giants do appear to have two starters at tackle with vet insurance (Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Nate Solder). They also seem to be set at center with Nick Gates and former starter Harrison. Guard is more of a question mark. The Giants signed veteran Fulton to compete with Will Hernandez and surprise starter Shane Lemieux. Kyle Murphy also quietly lurks in the wings.
My only other “wish list” position not addressed was defensive tackle, but the Giants are in decent shape with Shelton and Austin Johnson. In a crunch, Dexter Lawrence could also handle the position.
Overall, you have to hand it to the Giants. They have completely remade this roster in just a few months.
The 2021 NFL Draft was a wild ride for New York Giants fans conditioned to the usually staid approach of the conservative franchise. I repeatedly warned fans before and during the early stages of the 1st round that New York’s obvious interest in the two Alabama receivers was going to cause another team to jump ahead of the Giants. Many Giants fans had become invested in these two players because the belief that Jaylen Waddle and Devonta Smith were 1a and 1b (or visa versa) on the team’s wish list, assuming tight end Kyle Pitts, wide receiver Ja’Marr Chase, and offensive tackle Penei Sewell were gone. Pitts went 4th, Chase 5th, Waddle 6th, and Sewell 7th. Giants fans became justifiably nervous. There were still three more selections before the Giants’ pick at #11. The two top corners went next, raising hopes with only one pick to go. However, the Dallas Cowboys lost their shot at Patrick Surtain and Jaycee Horn, and were now willing to trade down. They did. With the annoying Philadelphia Eagles, who most likely stole Smith from the Giants. Fans were pissed. Once again another team traded ahead of the Giants to take a player everyone knew they liked. And this time it was the fucking Eagles! It seemed like the entire draft was already disaster for the Giants.
Who would the team pick? Many fans had been lobbying for offensive lineman Rashawn Slater and linebacker Micah Parsons. There were rumors the Giants might select defensive lineman Kwity Paye or offensive lineman Alijah Vera-Tucker. Arguments could have been made for each of these players, but the trade up by the Eagles seemed to take the luster off of any consolation prize.
Then all of the sudden, word came the Giants traded down. What? Dave Gettleman never trades down. And his predecessor didn’t either. And nine spots?!! All the way to the 20th pick?!! That’s a big drop. What did they get in return? It had better be good! It was. They got a 5th round pick in this draft and a #1 and #4 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. Life was good again. Giants fans celebrated.
But who to pick at #20? The obvious blue chippers were long gone. So were Parsons, Slater, and Vera-Tucker. No other offensive lineman seemed worthy of the pick. Kwity Paye or linebacker Azeez Ojulari seemed like obvious options. But lurking in the back of my mind were two considerations: (1) this was widely regarded as a very deep draft at wide receiver, and (2) this was widely regarded as a not-so-impressive draft for edge pass rushers. Might the Giants look at Rashod Bateman? The Giants surprised most when they took wide receiver Kadarius Toney with the 20th overall selection.
It’s not that Toney wasn’t viewed as a 1st-round pick. He was. Urban Meyer has already said the Giants broke his heart because the Jaguars intended to draft him at #25. Toney’s “issues” fall into two categories: (1) some off-the field incidents related to guns and his interest in pursuing a music career, and (2) whether a “gadget” player – no matter how good – was worthy of a 1st-round investment. Many felt that with Joe Judge’s obsession with team culture, combined with the fiasco with cornerback Deandre Baker, would cause New York to not even consider Toney. Right or wrong, the team is clearly not overly concerned with Toney’s “character.” They met with him at the Senior Bowl and came away impressed.
The second “issue” is more of my own personal baggage. I’m still a bit of a mental prisoner to old-fashioned football. When you draft a wideout in the 1st round, I have held the belief that the guy has to start at the X or Z (outside) positions. A slot guy? Used much more in 2021 than 1991, but he had better be damned good! And a “gadget” player? Forget about it. A 1st-rounder on a player who may get 10 snaps a game?! Not a good investment.
This is where the game has changed. Depth charts mean less and less with each passing day, both on offense and defense. Not just because of who actually receives more snaps but also because “traditional” formations (i.e., one running back, one fullback, one tight end, two wide receivers) no longer apply. What matters is this: can Judge, Jason Garrett, and Freddie Kitchens figure out a way to best use Toney in combination with Kenny Golladay, Sterling Shepard, Darius Slayton, Evan Engram, and Saquon Barkley? Because Toney needs to touch the football. But so do the other five players. Beyond 2021, one could see Toney replacing Shepard in the slot given Shepard’s contract vis a vis performance to date.
So what do the Giants have in Toney? He has average size (6’0”, 193 pounds) and doesn’t seem to play as fast as he times (sub-4.4). But the guy is the very definition of a “make-you-miss” player. Toney plays bigger than his size, has the toughness of a running back, and miraculously gets away from tacklers on a consistent basis. His balance and run-after-the-catch ability are jaw dropping. Again, it’s not him running away from people the way Waddle does, but the way he jukes and contorts himself to avoid defenders. Some draft pundits questioned his hands, but he only had three dropped passes during his entire career at Florida. Many say he needs to work on the mental aspects of the game – reading defenses, route running. Those are not insignificant concerns, and if he is going to be a “regular” wide receiver, he will have get better at both. To justify this selection, Toney has to play more than a few snaps per game. It will be interesting to see how the coaching staff game plans for him. He can be used outside, in the slot, out of the backfield, on jet sweeps, on bubble screens, etc. A former high school quarterback, he can (and has) even throw the football on trick plays. Toney should also be strongly considered in the return game.
So scratch one need off of the wish list. It might not have been Waddle or Smith, but the Giants drafted a play-making wide receiver in the 1st round. Onto the other apparent needs – outside pass rushers and offensive linemen.
Day two arrives with the Giants picking 10th in the second round. Things appear to go New York’s way as three defensive backs, two defensive tackles, one wide receiver, one running back, and only two offensive linemen go in the first nine picks. The only “oh crap” moment comes when the Eagles draft center Landon Dickerson (who could also project to guard). Fucking Eagles. None of the edge rushers went. Giants are going to draft Ojulari, right?! What?! Another trade down?! What’s going on?! This is both exciting but also nerve-wracking. I want Ojulari and now we are going to lose him. What did we get in return for dropping down eight spots? Miami’s 3rd rounder in 2022. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. All of the sudden, we’ve added an additional #1, #3, and #4 in next year’s deeper and better-researched draft. That’s cool. But I wanted Ojulari.
Four more offensive linemen go. So if the Giants wanted to go that route, forget about it in round two. The run on that position started before #18. Three more defensive backs and another wideout. No big loss. Holy crap! Ojulari is still there. Something about concerns about a degenerative knee condition? If the Giants doctors are OK with it, I am. Draft him! They do. Now, I’m really happy. Ojulari is a guy who I thought would go in the 1st round was the best fit for what the Giants needed – a true 3-4-type pass rushing outside linebacker. If you told me the Giants would get him with the 50th overall section, I would have laughed at you. Ojulari has to refine additional pass rush moves, but the one he is a master of is damn good… his initial get off, hand slap, bend, and closing burst is very difficult for offensive tackles to handle. The major question on him is can he become a consistent pass-rush presence against big NFL tackles with quick feet. If he can, the Giants addressed a major need.
Round 3. Have to go offensive line, right? Not so fast. There have been whispers for weeks that the Giants don’t think their line is the train wreck. Do they want to add talent at the position? Yes. But they are not going to force the pick. The Giants still could use help at RB, DT, another edge rusher, linebacker, and maybe even in the secondary where they are one injury away from being in trouble. The League and the NFC East is loaded with good receivers. The Giants could use another corner. Aaron Robinson, who was supposed to be long gone, is still here. However, the other three teams in NFC East pick right before the Giants. Dallas and Philly still need help at corner. Wait?! What’s this?! Trader Dave Gettlemen is moving ahead of all three NFC East teams, giving up his newly-acquired 5th rounder, to select Robinson! What the hell is going on!? We learn later that the Eagles are damned pissed off they missed out on someone here. Revenge!
Robinson is a stud. He can play slot corner if Darnay Holmes remains too grabby or gets hurt. He and Holmes can both play slot corner if teams go four wide. He can also play outside. Robinson is an athlete, but he’s also a cocky son-of-a-bitch who hates the guy lining up over his head. Giants fans will love him. Fans of other teams will hate him. A strong New York secondary just became stronger. Isaac Yiadom is less likely to see the field.
Day three. Rounds 4-7 but the Giants only have three picks…one 4th rounder and two 6th rounders. Have to address the offensive line today, right? Nope. Giants go defense again, selecting edge rusher Elerson Smith, who didn’t play in 2020 because his team didn’t play due to COVID. Smith has an unusual build, very tall (6’6”) and lanky. He’s listed in the 260-pound range but looks too thin (similar in build to Jason Taylor of the Dolphins many years ago). However, he is another guy with a good initial quickness, bend, and closing burst. The Giants didn’t need one edge rusher, they needed two. Hopefully the got them in Ojulari and Smith. The competition for a roster spot and playing time will be fierce with Lorenzo Carter, Oshane Ximines, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson, Cam Brown, and Carter Coughlin. Carter and Ximines – the opening day starters who missed most of the season due to significant injuries – are definitely on the hot seat.
About 80 more players went off the board before New York picked again in the 6th round. The Giants take a running back, addressing a big depth need, but not a name that was expected. However, Judge makes it clear that Gary Brightwell was a special teams stud in college so the pick makes sense. He’s also an ascending player who was just beginning to receive more playing time but Arizona’s schedule was abbreviated to five games. He’s a no-nonsense, big back with some wiggle to his game, however he has to stop fumbling. Brightwell has a great shot to make the team because there isn’t much behind Barkley and Devontae Booker.
The last pick was a pure value pick. Rodarius Williams was supposed to be long gone. I’ve seen talk in The Forum that the soon-to-be 25-year old won’t be around a long time, so don’t worry about his age. I will tell you what, Williams is the kind of guy who could have a long NFL career. He’s another physical, aggressive corner who plays with a chip on his shoulder. I feel 100 percent better about our corner situation with both Robinson and Williams at the position. Knock on wood, but the Giants may have the best secondary in the NFL.
Summary: A few months ago, I whined (yes, literally whined) about how bad this roster was, especially on the offensive side of the ball. In a few months, the Giants have added:
-Two new back-ups behind Saquon Barkley (Devontae Booker and Gary Brightwell).
-Three new wide receivers (Kenny Golladay, Kadarius Toney, and John Ross).
-One new tight end (Kyle Rudolph)
-Two new offensive linemen (Zach Fulton and Jonotthan Harrison)
-A new nose tackle to help ameliorate the loss of Dalvin Tomlinson (Danny Shelton)
-Four new edge players (Azeez Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson)
-A new inside linebacker (Reggie Ragland)
-Three new corners (Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Rodarius Williams)
Holy shit. I always tell you guys that teams can only do so much in one offseason. Somehow the Giants crammed two offseasons into one, and also picked up an extra #1, #3, and #4 for next year’s draft.
The glaring omission? The offensive line. Gettleman said they were considering offensive line in the draft but they went before the team selected. So they do want to add more help there. But both Gettleman and Judge publicly say they are not as worried about the position as others. PR? Blind optimism? Or just maybe justifiable confidence? We shall see. The Giants do appear to have two starters at tackle with vet insurance (Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Nate Solder). They also seem to be set at center with Nick Gates and former starter Harrison. Guard is more of a question mark. The Giants signed veteran Fulton to compete with Will Hernandez and surprise starter Shane Lemieux. Kyle Murphy also quietly lurks in the wings.
My only other “wish list” position not addressed was defensive tackle, but the Giants are in decent shape with Shelton and Austin Johnson. In a crunch, Dexter Lawrence could also handle the position.
Overall, you have to hand it to the Giants. They have completely remade this roster in just a few months.
good players picked in the short term both FA the draft, and help for the future with the #1 and #3 for next year. The Bears pick is going to be a good one.
An OL would have been nice, but they add depth in Fulton, and more OLs will be cut before the season.
wrt Toney, a number of pundits apparently cannot distinguish between a "gadget receiver" and a quality receiver who can perform gadget plays. It seems quite clear that Toney is in the latter category. And as part of this--no reflection on you, Eric, just an addition--I would be shocked if the Giants cannot teach Toney to use his fast-twitch capacity to cut one or more times on a dime into pre-pass techniques to get open, as opposed to solely capacity to break away after catching the ball. No more twiching at the LOS, but learning to get the db covering him to turn his hips in the wrong direction, or to completely break the wrong way and leave Toney open. Double cuts, too.
wrt Toney, a number of pundits apparently cannot distinguish between a "gadget receiver" and a quality receiver who can perform gadget plays. It seems quite clear that Toney is in the latter category. And as part of this--no reflection on you, Eric, just an addition--I would be shocked if the Giants cannot teach Toney to use his fast-twitch capacity to cut one or more times on a dime into pre-pass techniques to get open, as opposed to solely capacity to break away after catching the ball. No more twiching at the LOS, but learning to get the db covering him to turn his hips in the wrong direction, or to completely break the wrong way and leave Toney open. Double cuts, too.
Well, maybe. There are enough reports that say he needs a lot of technique work on reading defenses and route running to be a concern that he is more of a gadget guy at this stage. That said, some of the moves I saw him put on CBs to get open were impressive. Still, NFL route running is very precise, within inches you have to run the right route or the ball is going fall incomplete or worse.
I liken this to BB, where spectacular leapers in college almost never know how to shoot the three, but the good ones learn in the pros (Barrett).
Here, we have a spectacular cutter who had the luxury of not needing to rely upon precise moves in college, so he didn't. However, there is absolutely no evidence that he cannot learn. He is a bright, passionate football player. I would be shocked if he cannot learn route running with solid coaching.
with a higher degree of difficulty like diving.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
MG & Eric, I've had a hard time finding any statistical evidence
he runs worse routes than the typical first round rookie in the first place. The guy caught 70 of 84 passes thrown his way over 11 games. That's basically 1 incompletion per game for any reason - miscommunication, defender making a good play, bad throw, drop, etc. That 83% catch rate is excellent (right in line with both Bama WRs) and his YPC (14) is solid too so it's not a case of him just accumulating dump offs. And on targets 20+ yards down field he supposedly caught 7/9 for 4 touchdowns and a perfect passer rating. His catch% is better than just about every recent SEC comp we've seen suggested was (Harvin, Deebo, AJ Brown, Landry, etc).
I can buy that it was an issue that held him back from getting on the field in prior seasons because why else would a coach not play a player as talented as he is?
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
RE: I hate the term gadget, in actuality it is a play
with a higher degree of difficulty like diving.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
Agree. But I don't want to see Toney on the field for only 10 snaps per game.
he runs worse routes than the typical first round rookie in the first place. The guy caught 70 of 84 passes thrown his way over 11 games. That's basically 1 incompletion per game for any reason - miscommunication, defender making a good play, bad throw, drop, etc. That 83% catch rate is excellent (right in line with both Bama WRs) and his YPC (14) is solid too so it's not a case of him just accumulating dump offs. And on targets 20+ yards down field he supposedly caught 7/9 for 4 touchdowns and a perfect passer rating. His catch% is better than just about every recent SEC comp we've seen suggested was (Harvin, Deebo, AJ Brown, Landry, etc).
I can buy that it was an issue that held him back from getting on the field in prior seasons because why else would a coach not play a player as talented as he is?
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
Draft pundits who I respect have pointed out the route running issues. These guys are not always right so I look for trends. Most say he needs to run sharper routes. It's a common problem for WRs and why so many end up being busts.
RE: RE: I hate the term gadget, in actuality it is a play
with a higher degree of difficulty like diving.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
Agree. But I don't want to see Toney on the field for only 10 snaps per game.
with a higher degree of difficulty like diving.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
Agree. But I don't want to see Toney on the field for only 10 snaps per game.
jmo but I think the guy at risk of seeing a lot less snaps unless he steps his game up again is Slayton. His catch% dropped from an already not so great 57% as a rookie to 52% in year 2. Throwing to him was literally a coin flip. His deep speed is near elite and he is very good at making acrobatic catches downfield but how many times have we seen him unable to secure a short catch over the middle because a defender plays through his back?
He may be the one best served playing a gadget role cycled on the field at opportune moments to take shots down the field (or at least make the defense have to defend that). At least until Shepard limps off.
with Toney is that he has only converted to WR, what, about 3 years ago? I believe last season was his first as a full-time WR from what I’ve read. It makes sense to me that his route running would need more work, but also makes me think that he has improved greatly in those three years. I would surmise he’s still ascending and hasn’t reached his floor in route running and will take the next step with a year of pro coaching. But really what do I know..but it’s exciting what he could be for this team if he puts it together. We haven’t had an ankle breaker at WR since Cruz and OBJ were healthy.
I also think Toney will play more then 10 snaps per game.....
he runs worse routes than the typical first round rookie in the first place. The guy caught 70 of 84 passes thrown his way over 11 games. That's basically 1 incompletion per game for any reason - miscommunication, defender making a good play, bad throw, drop, etc. That 83% catch rate is excellent (right in line with both Bama WRs) and his YPC (14) is solid too so it's not a case of him just accumulating dump offs. And on targets 20+ yards down field he supposedly caught 7/9 for 4 touchdowns and a perfect passer rating. His catch% is better than just about every recent SEC comp we've seen suggested was (Harvin, Deebo, AJ Brown, Landry, etc)....
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
Eric, great post--the stats in 1st para are eye opening and the 2nd para (I copied) is a LOL.
Now let Garrett (and Callahan) and Jones do the Lord's work. Oh, and the OL too.
Love the optimism, and it’s definitely founded. I am very excited to see this team come together, as well.
Are there OTAs, Mini Camps this year? I can’t wait to see the new Giants, even in drills.
Thanks for the typo!
Rookie mini-camp is set. May 14-16. NFLPA is raising a fuss and nothing has been said about other offseason activities other than they said players will not show up for offseason strength and conditioning. Doesn't bode well.
but if you aren't planning on keeping him next year and paying him top 5 TE dollars, the Giants should really look to move him before the trade deadline. I'd rather get a 2-3 than have him leave in FA and pray for a comp pick.
Or maybe he learns how to catch and stays healthy and he has a 1k yard season. Who knows.
I appreciate the review and feel that it is a fair assessment
with a touch of optimism
I think the Giants roster building will continue next year.
We won't know the effects of the additional draft picks until next year but the Giants have set themselves up to add even more quality players
This is the best Giants coaching staff in years and with the infusion of young talent this is going to be a perennially competitive team
There will be ups and downs but the arrow is pointing up
This is how to build a team
but if you aren't planning on keeping him next year and paying him top 5 TE dollars, the Giants should really look to move him before the trade deadline. I'd rather get a 2-3 than have him leave in FA and pray for a comp pick.
Or maybe he learns how to catch and stays healthy and he has a 1k yard season. Who knows.
Tim, a thoughtful poster, usually (:, what is your basis for the comment header? As to your 2nd para, I can't think of too many instances where a guy with the dropsies/lack of concentration over the middle turns it around in an off-season. And getting a 2-3 for EE is a fairy tale. If anyone had offered that, he would be gone and the Giants would have had the pick last weekend.
wrt Toney, a number of pundits apparently cannot distinguish between a "gadget receiver" and a quality receiver who can perform gadget plays. It seems quite clear that Toney is in the latter category. And as part of this--no reflection on you, Eric, just an addition--I would be shocked if the Giants cannot teach Toney to use his fast-twitch capacity to cut one or more times on a dime into pre-pass techniques to get open, as opposed to solely capacity to break away after catching the ball. No more twiching at the LOS, but learning to get the db covering him to turn his hips in the wrong direction, or to completely break the wrong way and leave Toney open. Double cuts, too.
Well, maybe. There are enough reports that say he needs a lot of technique work on reading defenses and route running to be a concern that he is more of a gadget guy at this stage. That said, some of the moves I saw him put on CBs to get open were impressive. Still, NFL route running is very precise, within inches you have to run the right route or the ball is going fall incomplete or worse.
It may depend on how much focus he puts into football (versus other interests).
To me he is like the collegiate OT or DE who got away with "God given" size or athleticism and didn't have to learn a lot of technique.
Kadarius had a pretty good year without having to learn the precision required in the pros. If he has the discipline and desire he could be one of the outstanding Giant players of the decade.
Someone made the fun comment that he has the potential to be the Frank Gifford of the modern era; WR, Flanker and RB who can throw TDs. ST ability is a plus. (But can he drop kick?)
Judge just said that Toney has to improve his route running.
Judge says in every single interview (today's included) that all players have things to work on to improve regardless of who they are and he's right.
Every rookie receiver entering the NFL has to improve their route running - devonta smith included. Not every receiver gets labeled a gadget player though just because they were used one way in college though and in Toney's case I think it misses the mark. When I hear that I think of someone like Phillip Dorsett who only caught 50% of the balls thrown his way despite the 4.2 speed. Or projects like Hester/Ginn. Statistically at least Toney's performance last year was very different than those types.
If you look at the last 2 years it’s amazing what the team has done
The FA/trade haul has been stunning. Bradbury, Martinez, Ryan, LW, Peppers, Golladay, Jackson, Rudolph are just the marquee names. There are at least a half dozen decent depth signings as well. The draft seems equally productive with 5/6 projected starters from the last 2 years. And there are 5/6 backups on the roster from those drafts, too. That’s 14 or so starters just from the last two years. And, in general, I think there’s a positive feeling about our talent level. Someone deserves some props for this.
The Giants finished 6-10 last year. If Danny Dimes doesn't fumble,
the Giants finish 8-8 and win the division. In short, they were not a terrible team last year and are much better this year. But then so, too, are the Cowboys (defensively) and the Eagles offensively. Washington added a disruptive LB (Jamin Davis) but not much else IMO. I see a three team race with Washington the odd team out. Should be fun, exciting, and hopefully not disappointing.
jmo but I think the guy at risk of seeing a lot less snaps unless he steps his game up again is Slayton. His catch% dropped from an already not so great 57% as a rookie to 52% in year 2. Throwing to him was literally a coin flip. His deep speed is near elite and he is very good at making acrobatic catches downfield but how many times have we seen him unable to secure a short catch over the middle because a defender plays through his back?
He may be the one best served playing a gadget role cycled on the field at opportune moments to take shots down the field (or at least make the defense have to defend that). At least until Shepard limps off.
I think part of that was the Barkley effect. With Engram the only other "weapon" that scared defenses, I think Slayton saw a lot more bracket coverage (+ had the lingering leg injury). And while 52% is bad, he still led the team in yards/target at 7.8 (Tate = 7.5, SS = 7.3). I also think it's important to consider that Slayton's average target was 12.6 yards downfield compared to 8.3 yards downfield for Shepard so you'd expect a slightly lower catch%. All things considered, Slayton would be a solid #2 WR if he just got back to his rookie numbers with 57% catch% (on average target of 14.1 yards).
That said, I do think Golladay becomes the primary deep target, which reduces the targets for Slayton. That said, his #s in his 2019 pro bowl season were 56% catch% and 14.6 adot (ave depth of tgt). Pretty similar to Slayton's, albeit he was arguably the primary target for Detroit in 2019.
RE: I'm more optimistic on Engram than most others on BBI,
but if you aren't planning on keeping him next year and paying him top 5 TE dollars, the Giants should really look to move him before the trade deadline. I'd rather get a 2-3 than have him leave in FA and pray for a comp pick.
Or maybe he learns how to catch and stays healthy and he has a 1k yard season. Who knows.
I think if someone offered a 2nd for Engram, he'd be gone. A 3rd next year is probably a toss up in terms of what they'd want.
nobody is offering a 2nd for Engram. They watch the film we do.
btw i posted in another thread, that Tyke Tolbert does not see Toney as a gadget or just a slot, but a full time WR who can play inside and out and do many other things and he expects it this year. It was in a AP review of the Giants draft in my local paper. I tried to find a link but couldn't.
I'm still salty about losing Parsons and the prospect of playing him twice a year for forever, but this write-up actually made me feel quite a bit better about our 2021 offseason.
just think of the current top 4 receivers Slayton is the most "1 trick pony" in his skill set. That 1 trick is the most important trick there is (big plays downfield) so I am by no means getting rid of him, just think that could reduce his playing time more than the other 2 vets.
just think of the current top 4 receivers Slayton is the most "1 trick pony" in his skill set. That 1 trick is the most important trick there is (big plays downfield) so I am by no means getting rid of him, just think that could reduce his playing time more than the other 2 vets.
Agreed. Though I can still see him "start" opposite Golladay, especially early in the season to ease Toney's into things. Having 2 downfield threats on the field with Golladay/Slayton though could space things out a bit and give Barkley a little extra room.
Shepard's great at creating separation, but 1) Ds will be happy giving up 6-8 yard catches and forcing the Giants to prove they can sustain long drives and 2) dropping a S down to stop SB also clogs the middle and the passing lanes for SS.
RE: MG & Eric, I've had a hard time finding any statistical evidence
he runs worse routes than the typical first round rookie in the first place. The guy caught 70 of 84 passes thrown his way over 11 games. That's basically 1 incompletion per game for any reason - miscommunication, defender making a good play, bad throw, drop, etc. That 83% catch rate is excellent (right in line with both Bama WRs) and his YPC (14) is solid too so it's not a case of him just accumulating dump offs. And on targets 20+ yards down field he supposedly caught 7/9 for 4 touchdowns and a perfect passer rating. His catch% is better than just about every recent SEC comp we've seen suggested was (Harvin, Deebo, AJ Brown, Landry, etc).
I can buy that it was an issue that held him back from getting on the field in prior seasons because why else would a coach not play a player as talented as he is?
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
He just hasn't played a lot, either. He gets a lot of credit for recommitting himself to improving and fighting through injuries that crashed his college seasons, but he really had just the one fine year doing it. He's a bit raw. The physical gifts are encouraging for the future though. If 2020 was the first step, the Giants got a good WR just scratching the surface of his potential.
To see how defenses react when Golladay, Toney, Slayton, Ingram and Barkley are on the field at the same time. I also figure Toney should be able to run the Wildcat.
TTH this is the area where the selection seems most risky to me
He just hasn't played a lot, either. He gets a lot of credit for recommitting himself to improving and fighting through injuries that crashed his college seasons, but he really had just the one fine year doing it. He's a bit raw. The physical gifts are encouraging for the future though. If 2020 was the first step, the Giants got a good WR just scratching the surface of his potential.
This pick reminds me a little bit of JPP in that he was nowhere on the radar at the beginning of his final season in college, then came out of nowhere to play at a really high level. Then when he tested like an athletic freak he was kind of mislabeled as a workout warrior when he was actually pretty dominant on the field - just in a really small sample size.
The biggest mark against Toney's resume, especially compared to someone like Devonta Smith who is the appropriate comparison here since that's who most expected, is the shorter track record. Smith was productive and durable from day 1. It's less of a negative relative to Waddle and I think it was thegratefulhead who pointed out that those of us who were excited about Waddle are probably more similarly excited about Toney than those who were more Smith or bust. Smith would have likely been the safest option of the 3 but if all 3 have big upsides I think it might have been even safer to secure the extra first next year.
Of all the rookie wr last season, the one with the best rookie season
looking back he was clearly under appreciated because Burrow and Chase were the headliners of that offense, but his final collegiate season was pretty insane. 91% catch rate on 122 targets (caught 111 balls with a 13.9 ypc).
15 games
111 receptions
1540 yards
18 tds
He basically had the type of season Devonta Smith probably would have had if Waddle hadn't gotten hurt and he'd had to share some of those targets.
OK then.
A lot less LOL
The print version is dated April 30.
The 2021 NFL Draft was a wild ride for New York Giants fans conditioned to the usually staid approach of the conservative franchise. I repeatedly warned fans before and during the early stages of the 1st round that New York’s obvious interest in the two Alabama receivers was going to cause another team to jump ahead of the Giants. Many Giants fans had become invested in these two players because the belief that Jaylen Waddle and Devonta Smith were 1a and 1b (or visa versa) on the team’s wish list, assuming tight end Kyle Pitts, wide receiver Ja’Marr Chase, and offensive tackle Penei Sewell were gone. Pitts went 4th, Chase 5th, Waddle 6th, and Sewell 7th. Giants fans became justifiably nervous. There were still three more selections before the Giants’ pick at #11. The two top corners went next, raising hopes with only one pick to go. However, the Dallas Cowboys lost their shot at Patrick Surtain and Jaycee Horn, and were now willing to trade down. They did. With the annoying Philadelphia Eagles, who most likely stole Smith from the Giants. Fans were pissed. Once again another team traded ahead of the Giants to take a player everyone knew they liked. And this time it was the fucking Eagles! It seemed like the entire draft was already disaster for the Giants.
Who would the team pick? Many fans had been lobbying for offensive lineman Rashawn Slater and linebacker Micah Parsons. There were rumors the Giants might select defensive lineman Kwity Paye or offensive lineman Alijah Vera-Tucker. Arguments could have been made for each of these players, but the trade up by the Eagles seemed to take the luster off of any consolation prize.
Then all of the sudden, word came the Giants traded down. What? Dave Gettleman never trades down. And his predecessor didn’t either. And nine spots?!! All the way to the 20th pick?!! That’s a big drop. What did they get in return? It had better be good! It was. They got a 5th round pick in this draft and a #1 and #4 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. Life was good again. Giants fans celebrated.
But who to pick at #20? The obvious blue chippers were long gone. So were Parsons, Slater, and Vera-Tucker. No other offensive lineman seemed worthy of the pick. Kwity Paye or linebacker Azeez Ojulari seemed like obvious options. But lurking in the back of my mind were two considerations: (1) this was widely regarded as a very deep draft at wide receiver, and (2) this was widely regarded as a not-so-impressive draft for edge pass rushers. Might the Giants look at Rashod Bateman? The Giants surprised most when they took wide receiver Kadarius Toney with the 20th overall selection.
It’s not that Toney wasn’t viewed as a 1st-round pick. He was. Urban Meyer has already said the Giants broke his heart because the Jaguars intended to draft him at #25. Toney’s “issues” fall into two categories: (1) some off-the field incidents related to guns and his interest in pursuing a music career, and (2) whether a “gadget” player – no matter how good – was worthy of a 1st-round investment. Many felt that with Joe Judge’s obsession with team culture, combined with the fiasco with cornerback Deandre Baker, would cause New York to not even consider Toney. Right or wrong, the team is clearly not overly concerned with Toney’s “character.” They met with him at the Senior Bowl and came away impressed.
The second “issue” is more of my own personal baggage. I’m still a bit of a mental prisoner to old-fashioned football. When you draft a wideout in the 1st round, I have held the belief that the guy has to start at the X or Z (outside) positions. A slot guy? Used much more in 2021 than 1991, but he had better be damned good! And a “gadget” player? Forget about it. A 1st-rounder on a player who may get 10 snaps a game?! Not a good investment.
This is where the game has changed. Depth charts mean less and less with each passing day, both on offense and defense. Not just because of who actually receives more snaps but also because “traditional” formations (i.e., one running back, one fullback, one tight end, two wide receivers) no longer apply. What matters is this: can Judge, Jason Garrett, and Freddie Kitchens figure out a way to best use Toney in combination with Kenny Golladay, Sterling Shepard, Darius Slayton, Evan Engram, and Saquon Barkley? Because Toney needs to touch the football. But so do the other five players. Beyond 2021, one could see Toney replacing Shepard in the slot given Shepard’s contract vis a vis performance to date.
So what do the Giants have in Toney? He has average size (6’0”, 193 pounds) and doesn’t seem to play as fast as he times (sub-4.4). But the guy is the very definition of a “make-you-miss” player. Toney plays bigger than his size, has the toughness of a running back, and miraculously gets away from tacklers on a consistent basis. His balance and run-after-the-catch ability are jaw dropping. Again, it’s not him running away from people the way Waddle does, but the way he jukes and contorts himself to avoid defenders. Some draft pundits questioned his hands, but he only had three dropped passes during his entire career at Florida. Many say he needs to work on the mental aspects of the game – reading defenses, route running. Those are not insignificant concerns, and if he is going to be a “regular” wide receiver, he will have get better at both. To justify this selection, Toney has to play more than a few snaps per game. It will be interesting to see how the coaching staff game plans for him. He can be used outside, in the slot, out of the backfield, on jet sweeps, on bubble screens, etc. A former high school quarterback, he can (and has) even throw the football on trick plays. Toney should also be strongly considered in the return game.
So scratch one need off of the wish list. It might not have been Waddle or Smith, but the Giants drafted a play-making wide receiver in the 1st round. Onto the other apparent needs – outside pass rushers and offensive linemen.
Day two arrives with the Giants picking 10th in the second round. Things appear to go New York’s way as three defensive backs, two defensive tackles, one wide receiver, one running back, and only two offensive linemen go in the first nine picks. The only “oh crap” moment comes when the Eagles draft center Landon Dickerson (who could also project to guard). Fucking Eagles. None of the edge rushers went. Giants are going to draft Ojulari, right?! What?! Another trade down?! What’s going on?! This is both exciting but also nerve-wracking. I want Ojulari and now we are going to lose him. What did we get in return for dropping down eight spots? Miami’s 3rd rounder in 2022. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. All of the sudden, we’ve added an additional #1, #3, and #4 in next year’s deeper and better-researched draft. That’s cool. But I wanted Ojulari.
Four more offensive linemen go. So if the Giants wanted to go that route, forget about it in round two. The run on that position started before #18. Three more defensive backs and another wideout. No big loss. Holy crap! Ojulari is still there. Something about concerns about a degenerative knee condition? If the Giants doctors are OK with it, I am. Draft him! They do. Now, I’m really happy. Ojulari is a guy who I thought would go in the 1st round was the best fit for what the Giants needed – a true 3-4-type pass rushing outside linebacker. If you told me the Giants would get him with the 50th overall section, I would have laughed at you. Ojulari has to refine additional pass rush moves, but the one he is a master of is damn good… his initial get off, hand slap, bend, and closing burst is very difficult for offensive tackles to handle. The major question on him is can he become a consistent pass-rush presence against big NFL tackles with quick feet. If he can, the Giants addressed a major need.
Round 3. Have to go offensive line, right? Not so fast. There have been whispers for weeks that the Giants don’t think their line is the train wreck. Do they want to add talent at the position? Yes. But they are not going to force the pick. The Giants still could use help at RB, DT, another edge rusher, linebacker, and maybe even in the secondary where they are one injury away from being in trouble. The League and the NFC East is loaded with good receivers. The Giants could use another corner. Aaron Robinson, who was supposed to be long gone, is still here. However, the other three teams in NFC East pick right before the Giants. Dallas and Philly still need help at corner. Wait?! What’s this?! Trader Dave Gettlemen is moving ahead of all three NFC East teams, giving up his newly-acquired 5th rounder, to select Robinson! What the hell is going on!? We learn later that the Eagles are damned pissed off they missed out on someone here. Revenge!
Robinson is a stud. He can play slot corner if Darnay Holmes remains too grabby or gets hurt. He and Holmes can both play slot corner if teams go four wide. He can also play outside. Robinson is an athlete, but he’s also a cocky son-of-a-bitch who hates the guy lining up over his head. Giants fans will love him. Fans of other teams will hate him. A strong New York secondary just became stronger. Isaac Yiadom is less likely to see the field.
Day three. Rounds 4-7 but the Giants only have three picks…one 4th rounder and two 6th rounders. Have to address the offensive line today, right? Nope. Giants go defense again, selecting edge rusher Elerson Smith, who didn’t play in 2020 because his team didn’t play due to COVID. Smith has an unusual build, very tall (6’6”) and lanky. He’s listed in the 260-pound range but looks too thin (similar in build to Jason Taylor of the Dolphins many years ago). However, he is another guy with a good initial quickness, bend, and closing burst. The Giants didn’t need one edge rusher, they needed two. Hopefully the got them in Ojulari and Smith. The competition for a roster spot and playing time will be fierce with Lorenzo Carter, Oshane Ximines, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson, Cam Brown, and Carter Coughlin. Carter and Ximines – the opening day starters who missed most of the season due to significant injuries – are definitely on the hot seat.
About 80 more players went off the board before New York picked again in the 6th round. The Giants take a running back, addressing a big depth need, but not a name that was expected. However, Judge makes it clear that Gary Brightwell was a special teams stud in college so the pick makes sense. He’s also an ascending player who was just beginning to receive more playing time but Arizona’s schedule was abbreviated to five games. He’s a no-nonsense, big back with some wiggle to his game, however he has to stop fumbling. Brightwell has a great shot to make the team because there isn’t much behind Barkley and Devontae Booker.
The last pick was a pure value pick. Rodarius Williams was supposed to be long gone. I’ve seen talk in The Forum that the soon-to-be 25-year old won’t be around a long time, so don’t worry about his age. I will tell you what, Williams is the kind of guy who could have a long NFL career. He’s another physical, aggressive corner who plays with a chip on his shoulder. I feel 100 percent better about our corner situation with both Robinson and Williams at the position. Knock on wood, but the Giants may have the best secondary in the NFL.
Summary: A few months ago, I whined (yes, literally whined) about how bad this roster was, especially on the offensive side of the ball. In a few months, the Giants have added:
-Two new back-ups behind Saquon Barkley (Devontae Booker and Gary Brightwell).
-Three new wide receivers (Kenny Golladay, Kadarius Toney, and John Ross).
-One new tight end (Kyle Rudolph)
-Two new offensive linemen (Zach Fulton and Jonotthan Harrison)
-A new nose tackle to help ameliorate the loss of Dalvin Tomlinson (Danny Shelton)
-Four new edge players (Azeez Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson)
-A new inside linebacker (Reggie Ragland)
-Three new corners (Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Rodarius Williams)
Holy shit. I always tell you guys that teams can only do so much in one offseason. Somehow the Giants crammed two offseasons into one, and also picked up an extra #1, #3, and #4 for next year’s draft.
The glaring omission? The offensive line. Gettleman said they were considering offensive line in the draft but they went before the team selected. So they do want to add more help there. But both Gettleman and Judge publicly say they are not as worried about the position as others. PR? Blind optimism? Or just maybe justifiable confidence? We shall see. The Giants do appear to have two starters at tackle with vet insurance (Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Nate Solder). They also seem to be set at center with Nick Gates and former starter Harrison. Guard is more of a question mark. The Giants signed veteran Fulton to compete with Will Hernandez and surprise starter Shane Lemieux. Kyle Murphy also quietly lurks in the wings.
My only other “wish list” position not addressed was defensive tackle, but the Giants are in decent shape with Shelton and Austin Johnson. In a crunch, Dexter Lawrence could also handle the position.
Overall, you have to hand it to the Giants. They have completely remade this roster in just a few months.
The 2021 NFL Draft was a wild ride for New York Giants fans conditioned to the usually staid approach of the conservative franchise. I repeatedly warned fans before and during the early stages of the 1st round that New York’s obvious interest in the two Alabama receivers was going to cause another team to jump ahead of the Giants. Many Giants fans had become invested in these two players because the belief that Jaylen Waddle and Devonta Smith were 1a and 1b (or visa versa) on the team’s wish list, assuming tight end Kyle Pitts, wide receiver Ja’Marr Chase, and offensive tackle Penei Sewell were gone. Pitts went 4th, Chase 5th, Waddle 6th, and Sewell 7th. Giants fans became justifiably nervous. There were still three more selections before the Giants’ pick at #11. The two top corners went next, raising hopes with only one pick to go. However, the Dallas Cowboys lost their shot at Patrick Surtain and Jaycee Horn, and were now willing to trade down. They did. With the annoying Philadelphia Eagles, who most likely stole Smith from the Giants. Fans were pissed. Once again another team traded ahead of the Giants to take a player everyone knew they liked. And this time it was the fucking Eagles! It seemed like the entire draft was already disaster for the Giants.
Who would the team pick? Many fans had been lobbying for offensive lineman Rashawn Slater and linebacker Micah Parsons. There were rumors the Giants might select defensive lineman Kwity Paye or offensive lineman Alijah Vera-Tucker. Arguments could have been made for each of these players, but the trade up by the Eagles seemed to take the luster off of any consolation prize.
Then all of the sudden, word came the Giants traded down. What? Dave Gettleman never trades down. And his predecessor didn’t either. And nine spots?!! All the way to the 20th pick?!! That’s a big drop. What did they get in return? It had better be good! It was. They got a 5th round pick in this draft and a #1 and #4 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft. Life was good again. Giants fans celebrated.
But who to pick at #20? The obvious blue chippers were long gone. So were Parsons, Slater, and Vera-Tucker. No other offensive lineman seemed worthy of the pick. Kwity Paye or linebacker Azeez Ojulari seemed like obvious options. But lurking in the back of my mind were two considerations: (1) this was widely regarded as a very deep draft at wide receiver, and (2) this was widely regarded as a not-so-impressive draft for edge pass rushers. Might the Giants look at Rashod Bateman? The Giants surprised most when they took wide receiver Kadarius Toney with the 20th overall selection.
It’s not that Toney wasn’t viewed as a 1st-round pick. He was. Urban Meyer has already said the Giants broke his heart because the Jaguars intended to draft him at #25. Toney’s “issues” fall into two categories: (1) some off-the field incidents related to guns and his interest in pursuing a music career, and (2) whether a “gadget” player – no matter how good – was worthy of a 1st-round investment. Many felt that with Joe Judge’s obsession with team culture, combined with the fiasco with cornerback Deandre Baker, would cause New York to not even consider Toney. Right or wrong, the team is clearly not overly concerned with Toney’s “character.” They met with him at the Senior Bowl and came away impressed.
The second “issue” is more of my own personal baggage. I’m still a bit of a mental prisoner to old-fashioned football. When you draft a wideout in the 1st round, I have held the belief that the guy has to start at the X or Z (outside) positions. A slot guy? Used much more in 2021 than 1991, but he had better be damned good! And a “gadget” player? Forget about it. A 1st-rounder on a player who may get 10 snaps a game?! Not a good investment.
This is where the game has changed. Depth charts mean less and less with each passing day, both on offense and defense. Not just because of who actually receives more snaps but also because “traditional” formations (i.e., one running back, one fullback, one tight end, two wide receivers) no longer apply. What matters is this: can Judge, Jason Garrett, and Freddie Kitchens figure out a way to best use Toney in combination with Kenny Golladay, Sterling Shepard, Darius Slayton, Evan Engram, and Saquon Barkley? Because Toney needs to touch the football. But so do the other five players. Beyond 2021, one could see Toney replacing Shepard in the slot given Shepard’s contract vis a vis performance to date.
So what do the Giants have in Toney? He has average size (6’0”, 193 pounds) and doesn’t seem to play as fast as he times (sub-4.4). But the guy is the very definition of a “make-you-miss” player. Toney plays bigger than his size, has the toughness of a running back, and miraculously gets away from tacklers on a consistent basis. His balance and run-after-the-catch ability are jaw dropping. Again, it’s not him running away from people the way Waddle does, but the way he jukes and contorts himself to avoid defenders. Some draft pundits questioned his hands, but he only had three dropped passes during his entire career at Florida. Many say he needs to work on the mental aspects of the game – reading defenses, route running. Those are not insignificant concerns, and if he is going to be a “regular” wide receiver, he will have get better at both. To justify this selection, Toney has to play more than a few snaps per game. It will be interesting to see how the coaching staff game plans for him. He can be used outside, in the slot, out of the backfield, on jet sweeps, on bubble screens, etc. A former high school quarterback, he can (and has) even throw the football on trick plays. Toney should also be strongly considered in the return game.
So scratch one need off of the wish list. It might not have been Waddle or Smith, but the Giants drafted a play-making wide receiver in the 1st round. Onto the other apparent needs – outside pass rushers and offensive linemen.
Day two arrives with the Giants picking 10th in the second round. Things appear to go New York’s way as three defensive backs, two defensive tackles, one wide receiver, one running back, and only two offensive linemen go in the first nine picks. The only “oh crap” moment comes when the Eagles draft center Landon Dickerson (who could also project to guard). Fucking Eagles. None of the edge rushers went. Giants are going to draft Ojulari, right?! What?! Another trade down?! What’s going on?! This is both exciting but also nerve-wracking. I want Ojulari and now we are going to lose him. What did we get in return for dropping down eight spots? Miami’s 3rd rounder in 2022. Not bad. Not great, but not bad. All of the sudden, we’ve added an additional #1, #3, and #4 in next year’s deeper and better-researched draft. That’s cool. But I wanted Ojulari.
Four more offensive linemen go. So if the Giants wanted to go that route, forget about it in round two. The run on that position started before #18. Three more defensive backs and another wideout. No big loss. Holy crap! Ojulari is still there. Something about concerns about a degenerative knee condition? If the Giants doctors are OK with it, I am. Draft him! They do. Now, I’m really happy. Ojulari is a guy who I thought would go in the 1st round was the best fit for what the Giants needed – a true 3-4-type pass rushing outside linebacker. If you told me the Giants would get him with the 50th overall section, I would have laughed at you. Ojulari has to refine additional pass rush moves, but the one he is a master of is damn good… his initial get off, hand slap, bend, and closing burst is very difficult for offensive tackles to handle. The major question on him is can he become a consistent pass-rush presence against big NFL tackles with quick feet. If he can, the Giants addressed a major need.
Round 3. Have to go offensive line, right? Not so fast. There have been whispers for weeks that the Giants don’t think their line is the train wreck. Do they want to add talent at the position? Yes. But they are not going to force the pick. The Giants still could use help at RB, DT, another edge rusher, linebacker, and maybe even in the secondary where they are one injury away from being in trouble. The League and the NFC East is loaded with good receivers. The Giants could use another corner. Aaron Robinson, who was supposed to be long gone, is still here. However, the other three teams in NFC East pick right before the Giants. Dallas and Philly still need help at corner. Wait?! What’s this?! Trader Dave Gettlemen is moving ahead of all three NFC East teams, giving up his newly-acquired 5th rounder, to select Robinson! What the hell is going on!? We learn later that the Eagles are damned pissed off they missed out on someone here. Revenge!
Robinson is a stud. He can play slot corner if Darnay Holmes remains too grabby or gets hurt. He and Holmes can both play slot corner if teams go four wide. He can also play outside. Robinson is an athlete, but he’s also a cocky son-of-a-bitch who hates the guy lining up over his head. Giants fans will love him. Fans of other teams will hate him. A strong New York secondary just became stronger. Isaac Yiadom is less likely to see the field.
Day three. Rounds 4-7 but the Giants only have three picks…one 4th rounder and two 6th rounders. Have to address the offensive line today, right? Nope. Giants go defense again, selecting edge rusher Elerson Smith, who didn’t play in 2020 because his team didn’t play due to COVID. Smith has an unusual build, very tall (6’6”) and lanky. He’s listed in the 260-pound range but looks too thin (similar in build to Jason Taylor of the Dolphins many years ago). However, he is another guy with a good initial quickness, bend, and closing burst. The Giants didn’t need one edge rusher, they needed two. Hopefully the got them in Ojulari and Smith. The competition for a roster spot and playing time will be fierce with Lorenzo Carter, Oshane Ximines, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson, Cam Brown, and Carter Coughlin. Carter and Ximines – the opening day starters who missed most of the season due to significant injuries – are definitely on the hot seat.
About 80 more players went off the board before New York picked again in the 6th round. The Giants take a running back, addressing a big depth need, but not a name that was expected. However, Judge makes it clear that Gary Brightwell was a special teams stud in college so the pick makes sense. He’s also an ascending player who was just beginning to receive more playing time but Arizona’s schedule was abbreviated to five games. He’s a no-nonsense, big back with some wiggle to his game, however he has to stop fumbling. Brightwell has a great shot to make the team because there isn’t much behind Barkley and Devontae Booker.
The last pick was a pure value pick. Rodarius Williams was supposed to be long gone. I’ve seen talk in The Forum that the soon-to-be 25-year old won’t be around a long time, so don’t worry about his age. I will tell you what, Williams is the kind of guy who could have a long NFL career. He’s another physical, aggressive corner who plays with a chip on his shoulder. I feel 100 percent better about our corner situation with both Robinson and Williams at the position. Knock on wood, but the Giants may have the best secondary in the NFL.
Summary: A few months ago, I whined (yes, literally whined) about how bad this roster was, especially on the offensive side of the ball. In a few months, the Giants have added:
-Two new back-ups behind Saquon Barkley (Devontae Booker and Gary Brightwell).
-Three new wide receivers (Kenny Golladay, Kadarius Toney, and John Ross).
-One new tight end (Kyle Rudolph)
-Two new offensive linemen (Zach Fulton and Jonotthan Harrison)
-A new nose tackle to help ameliorate the loss of Dalvin Tomlinson (Danny Shelton)
-Four new edge players (Azeez Ojulari, Elerson Smith, Ifeadi Odenigbo, Ryan Anderson)
-A new inside linebacker (Reggie Ragland)
-Three new corners (Adoree’ Jackson, Aaron Robinson, Rodarius Williams)
Holy shit. I always tell you guys that teams can only do so much in one offseason. Somehow the Giants crammed two offseasons into one, and also picked up an extra #1, #3, and #4 for next year’s draft.
The glaring omission? The offensive line. Gettleman said they were considering offensive line in the draft but they went before the team selected. So they do want to add more help there. But both Gettleman and Judge publicly say they are not as worried about the position as others. PR? Blind optimism? Or just maybe justifiable confidence? We shall see. The Giants do appear to have two starters at tackle with vet insurance (Andrew Thomas, Matt Peart, Nate Solder). They also seem to be set at center with Nick Gates and former starter Harrison. Guard is more of a question mark. The Giants signed veteran Fulton to compete with Will Hernandez and surprise starter Shane Lemieux. Kyle Murphy also quietly lurks in the wings.
My only other “wish list” position not addressed was defensive tackle, but the Giants are in decent shape with Shelton and Austin Johnson. In a crunch, Dexter Lawrence could also handle the position.
Overall, you have to hand it to the Giants. They have completely remade this roster in just a few months.
TL; DR
"Cache rules everything around me." - Eric from BBI.
Quote:
and a #1 and #4 pick in the 2021 NFL Draft
Thanks. Fixed on the version you guys can't see. Maybe someone in the dark web can see it.
It does help that Gettleman had some accountability in this draft to Mara and Judge, otherwise, he probably just stays at 11.
The one thing I'd watch out for is a potential trade from a position of strength for a position of weakness which is really only TE and CB.
I just tried that, nada again
DOH!
Thanks. My fault for multi-tasking.
An OL would have been nice, but they add depth in Fulton, and more OLs will be cut before the season.
Job well done by the Giants organization.
Well, maybe. There are enough reports that say he needs a lot of technique work on reading defenses and route running to be a concern that he is more of a gadget guy at this stage. That said, some of the moves I saw him put on CBs to get open were impressive. Still, NFL route running is very precise, within inches you have to run the right route or the ball is going fall incomplete or worse.
Here, we have a spectacular cutter who had the luxury of not needing to rely upon precise moves in college, so he didn't. However, there is absolutely no evidence that he cannot learn. He is a bright, passionate football player. I would be shocked if he cannot learn route running with solid coaching.
That's the less whiney review.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
I can buy that it was an issue that held him back from getting on the field in prior seasons because why else would a coach not play a player as talented as he is?
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
Agree. But I don't want to see Toney on the field for only 10 snaps per game.
It does help that Gettleman had some accountability in this draft to Mara and Judge, otherwise, he probably just stays at 11.
I guess it really doesn't matter what Gettleman does; people will still minimize him with nothing more than pure speculation.
I can buy that it was an issue that held him back from getting on the field in prior seasons because why else would a coach not play a player as talented as he is?
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
Draft pundits who I respect have pointed out the route running issues. These guys are not always right so I look for trends. Most say he needs to run sharper routes. It's a common problem for WRs and why so many end up being busts.
Quote:
with a higher degree of difficulty like diving.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
Agree. But I don't want to see Toney on the field for only 10 snaps per game.
Quote:
with a higher degree of difficulty like diving.
I would welcome and OC who uses more fakes and end arounds, halfback options etc. If practiced and executed you drive a defense mad.
I love the Toney pick , let the good times roll
Agree. But I don't want to see Toney on the field for only 10 snaps per game.
jmo but I think the guy at risk of seeing a lot less snaps unless he steps his game up again is Slayton. His catch% dropped from an already not so great 57% as a rookie to 52% in year 2. Throwing to him was literally a coin flip. His deep speed is near elite and he is very good at making acrobatic catches downfield but how many times have we seen him unable to secure a short catch over the middle because a defender plays through his back?
He may be the one best served playing a gadget role cycled on the field at opportune moments to take shots down the field (or at least make the defense have to defend that). At least until Shepard limps off.
Are there OTAs, Mini Camps this year? I can’t wait to see the new Giants, even in drills.
“If you told me the Giants would get him with the 50th overall section” should read selection.
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
Now let Garrett (and Callahan) and Jones do the Lord's work. Oh, and the OL too.
Are there OTAs, Mini Camps this year? I can’t wait to see the new Giants, even in drills.
Thanks for the typo!
Rookie mini-camp is set. May 14-16. NFLPA is raising a fuss and nothing has been said about other offseason activities other than they said players will not show up for offseason strength and conditioning. Doesn't bode well.
But I am getting optimistic about this secondary
Or maybe he learns how to catch and stays healthy and he has a 1k yard season. Who knows.
with a touch of optimism
I think the Giants roster building will continue next year.
We won't know the effects of the additional draft picks until next year but the Giants have set themselves up to add even more quality players
This is the best Giants coaching staff in years and with the infusion of young talent this is going to be a perennially competitive team
There will be ups and downs but the arrow is pointing up
This is how to build a team
Or maybe he learns how to catch and stays healthy and he has a 1k yard season. Who knows.
Quote:
wrt Toney, a number of pundits apparently cannot distinguish between a "gadget receiver" and a quality receiver who can perform gadget plays. It seems quite clear that Toney is in the latter category. And as part of this--no reflection on you, Eric, just an addition--I would be shocked if the Giants cannot teach Toney to use his fast-twitch capacity to cut one or more times on a dime into pre-pass techniques to get open, as opposed to solely capacity to break away after catching the ball. No more twiching at the LOS, but learning to get the db covering him to turn his hips in the wrong direction, or to completely break the wrong way and leave Toney open. Double cuts, too.
Well, maybe. There are enough reports that say he needs a lot of technique work on reading defenses and route running to be a concern that he is more of a gadget guy at this stage. That said, some of the moves I saw him put on CBs to get open were impressive. Still, NFL route running is very precise, within inches you have to run the right route or the ball is going fall incomplete or worse.
It may depend on how much focus he puts into football (versus other interests).
To me he is like the collegiate OT or DE who got away with "God given" size or athleticism and didn't have to learn a lot of technique.
Kadarius had a pretty good year without having to learn the precision required in the pros. If he has the discipline and desire he could be one of the outstanding Giant players of the decade.
Someone made the fun comment that he has the potential to be the Frank Gifford of the modern era; WR, Flanker and RB who can throw TDs. ST ability is a plus. (But can he drop kick?)
Judge says in every single interview (today's included) that all players have things to work on to improve regardless of who they are and he's right.
Every rookie receiver entering the NFL has to improve their route running - devonta smith included. Not every receiver gets labeled a gadget player though just because they were used one way in college though and in Toney's case I think it misses the mark. When I hear that I think of someone like Phillip Dorsett who only caught 50% of the balls thrown his way despite the 4.2 speed. Or projects like Hester/Ginn. Statistically at least Toney's performance last year was very different than those types.
jmo but I think the guy at risk of seeing a lot less snaps unless he steps his game up again is Slayton. His catch% dropped from an already not so great 57% as a rookie to 52% in year 2. Throwing to him was literally a coin flip. His deep speed is near elite and he is very good at making acrobatic catches downfield but how many times have we seen him unable to secure a short catch over the middle because a defender plays through his back?
He may be the one best served playing a gadget role cycled on the field at opportune moments to take shots down the field (or at least make the defense have to defend that). At least until Shepard limps off.
I think part of that was the Barkley effect. With Engram the only other "weapon" that scared defenses, I think Slayton saw a lot more bracket coverage (+ had the lingering leg injury). And while 52% is bad, he still led the team in yards/target at 7.8 (Tate = 7.5, SS = 7.3). I also think it's important to consider that Slayton's average target was 12.6 yards downfield compared to 8.3 yards downfield for Shepard so you'd expect a slightly lower catch%. All things considered, Slayton would be a solid #2 WR if he just got back to his rookie numbers with 57% catch% (on average target of 14.1 yards).
That said, I do think Golladay becomes the primary deep target, which reduces the targets for Slayton. That said, his #s in his 2019 pro bowl season were 56% catch% and 14.6 adot (ave depth of tgt). Pretty similar to Slayton's, albeit he was arguably the primary target for Detroit in 2019.
Or maybe he learns how to catch and stays healthy and he has a 1k yard season. Who knows.
I think if someone offered a 2nd for Engram, he'd be gone. A 3rd next year is probably a toss up in terms of what they'd want.
Agreed. Though I can still see him "start" opposite Golladay, especially early in the season to ease Toney's into things. Having 2 downfield threats on the field with Golladay/Slayton though could space things out a bit and give Barkley a little extra room.
Shepard's great at creating separation, but 1) Ds will be happy giving up 6-8 yard catches and forcing the Giants to prove they can sustain long drives and 2) dropping a S down to stop SB also clogs the middle and the passing lanes for SS.
I can buy that it was an issue that held him back from getting on the field in prior seasons because why else would a coach not play a player as talented as he is?
But watching the clips of all his targets over the course of full games this past year I just haven't seen any plays where he looks like Rueben Randle or Evan Engram hanging his QB out to dry with a miscommunication or sloppily letting a defender cut off his route. And if the stats are accurate it's because he caught almost every ball that was thrown his direction.
He just hasn't played a lot, either. He gets a lot of credit for recommitting himself to improving and fighting through injuries that crashed his college seasons, but he really had just the one fine year doing it. He's a bit raw. The physical gifts are encouraging for the future though. If 2020 was the first step, the Giants got a good WR just scratching the surface of his potential.
He just hasn't played a lot, either. He gets a lot of credit for recommitting himself to improving and fighting through injuries that crashed his college seasons, but he really had just the one fine year doing it. He's a bit raw. The physical gifts are encouraging for the future though. If 2020 was the first step, the Giants got a good WR just scratching the surface of his potential.
This pick reminds me a little bit of JPP in that he was nowhere on the radar at the beginning of his final season in college, then came out of nowhere to play at a really high level. Then when he tested like an athletic freak he was kind of mislabeled as a workout warrior when he was actually pretty dominant on the field - just in a really small sample size.
The biggest mark against Toney's resume, especially compared to someone like Devonta Smith who is the appropriate comparison here since that's who most expected, is the shorter track record. Smith was productive and durable from day 1. It's less of a negative relative to Waddle and I think it was thegratefulhead who pointed out that those of us who were excited about Waddle are probably more similarly excited about Toney than those who were more Smith or bust. Smith would have likely been the safest option of the 3 but if all 3 have big upsides I think it might have been even safer to secure the extra first next year.
looking back he was clearly under appreciated because Burrow and Chase were the headliners of that offense, but his final collegiate season was pretty insane. 91% catch rate on 122 targets (caught 111 balls with a 13.9 ypc).
15 games
111 receptions
1540 yards
18 tds
He basically had the type of season Devonta Smith probably would have had if Waddle hadn't gotten hurt and he'd had to share some of those targets.