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Giants coach Joe Judge said most other NFL players would have missed more than only two games. “Look, Daniel is the last guy that’s going to use anything as an excuse,” Judge, who rarely talks about injuries, told The Michael Kay Show on Monday. What I would say about the injury last year is it was much more serious than maybe people thought on the outside. I would say probably 90 percent of players in the league who would have had that injury, including quarterbacks, would have been on IR for the remainder of the year. That’s just the reality of it. It was much more severe than maybe he allowed people to know or the information that was put out there, and we’re going to protect our players by not disclosing everything about their injuries to be honest with you. He fought through a lot of things. He earned a lot of people’s respect.” |
also, among Joneses...D v M?
tbh, I was shocked you didn't upgrade to LWilliam$.
That's very good. I'm very disappointed our marketing department missed that.
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In comment 15254791 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15254759 UConn4523 said:
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that its very realistic that the Giants didn't like the QB options at 11 anyway. I wanted nothing to do with Mac Jones so that leaves Fields ONLY. If Jones stinks we have 2 picks now, 1 which will be very high under this scenario (ours).
So are we settling for QB4 or priming ourselves for a potentially better player if needed in 2022?
I'm very curious on how the Giants rated the QBs vs the 2019 grade on Jones. They obviously would have taken Lawrence. And obviously they did pass on Fields/Jones. Would they have picked Wilson? Lance?
I'm actually more curious on how NYG operates more than anything Daniel Jones specific.
I'm not even sure they would have taken Lawrence.
Again, do you have data to support that?
It's just a guess. They seem hell bent on making it work with Jones.
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In comment 15254801 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15254791 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15254759 UConn4523 said:
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that its very realistic that the Giants didn't like the QB options at 11 anyway. I wanted nothing to do with Mac Jones so that leaves Fields ONLY. If Jones stinks we have 2 picks now, 1 which will be very high under this scenario (ours).
So are we settling for QB4 or priming ourselves for a potentially better player if needed in 2022?
I'm very curious on how the Giants rated the QBs vs the 2019 grade on Jones. They obviously would have taken Lawrence. And obviously they did pass on Fields/Jones. Would they have picked Wilson? Lance?
I'm actually more curious on how NYG operates more than anything Daniel Jones specific.
I'm not even sure they would have taken Lawrence.
Again, do you have data to support that?
It's just a guess. They seem hell bent on making it work with Jones.
That's very unusual for a team to want to do that with its QB.
I think it's improved, but Gettleman is still in the building and still very invested in Jones. I don't believe that his and Judge's agendas are perfectly aligned here. But none of us can know that for sure.
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In comment 15254806 Bill L said:
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In comment 15254801 Go Terps said:
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In comment 15254791 BrettNYG10 said:
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In comment 15254759 UConn4523 said:
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that its very realistic that the Giants didn't like the QB options at 11 anyway. I wanted nothing to do with Mac Jones so that leaves Fields ONLY. If Jones stinks we have 2 picks now, 1 which will be very high under this scenario (ours).
So are we settling for QB4 or priming ourselves for a potentially better player if needed in 2022?
I'm very curious on how the Giants rated the QBs vs the 2019 grade on Jones. They obviously would have taken Lawrence. And obviously they did pass on Fields/Jones. Would they have picked Wilson? Lance?
I'm actually more curious on how NYG operates more than anything Daniel Jones specific.
I'm not even sure they would have taken Lawrence.
Again, do you have data to support that?
It's just a guess. They seem hell bent on making it work with Jones.
That's very unusual for a team to want to do that with its QB.
For a QB performing as poorly as Jones? Yeah it kind of is.
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that its very realistic that the Giants didn't like the QB options at 11 anyway. I wanted nothing to do with Mac Jones so that leaves Fields ONLY. If Jones stinks we have 2 picks now, 1 which will be very high under this scenario (ours).
So are we settling for QB4 or priming ourselves for a potentially better player if needed in 2022?
I don't believe for one second the boys at One Giants Way gave consideration to any of these QBs (unless, of course, a miracle happened and TL fell...)
And that is troubling to me because Fields is so much more advanced and physically more gifted than Jones at this same point in their draft process. I don't even think it's particularly close.
Terps and I kicked this around a few times pre-draft and wondered what we would do if Fields fell to #11. Both of us sort of felt that was likely not going to happen, but it should be a no-brainer move...
Well, as the draft gods would have it, we had the opportunity.
Right now, IMV, outside of maybe Sam Howell, who I really like, Fields is better than ANY QB prospect in the '22 pool. Pretty comfortably too...
Considering you also had Ryan Finley and Drew Lock as being really good QB prospects coming out, I'm not sure you really have much of a right to post things as if anything is comfortable. Fields will get a chance to prove he can play - so the answer will be clearly seen in the years to come.
Most NFL teams give their players time to develop. QB's especially. But the Giants going with Jones in year 3 is them being "hell bent" to make it work.
Again - just a fucking ridiculous take in a year where you've made so many of them.
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Either you believe the process has improved or not. If the Giants had the first pick in the draft, they would have picked Lawrence. Plenty of QB needy teams passed on Fields.
Atlanta, Carolina, Denver, Philly (they even traded up and took someone else) all have major questions at QB. All chose a different route. Maybe Fields ends up being great, and they will all regret it, or maybe not. But its pretty clear that it isn't just the Giants that operate this way.
Shouldn't the Broncos of all teams be salivating at the opportunity to finally upgrade at QB? What has Lock done to instill any confidence?
Drew Lock has beaten winning teams (Texans 12/8/19, Dolphins 11/22/20). Something Daniel Jones has yet to do. The only stat that matters is W/L% - DJ must lead our team to wins against good opponents and then compete in the playoffs. No improvement in individual stats is relevant to any future extension consideration unless the Giants are beating good teams and reaching the playoffs under DJ's stewardship in 2021.
- They hugely overpaid Golladay
- They passed on drafting Fields, a legit high end prospect that fell to them unexpectedly
So yeah, I'd say they're hell bent on giving Jones every chance to prove he doesn't suck as much as he's shown in years 1 & 2.
See where i'm going with this?
- They hugely overpaid Golladay
- They passed on drafting Fields, a legit high end prospect that fell to them unexpectedly
So yeah, I'd say they're hell bent on giving Jones every chance to prove he doesn't suck as much as he's shown in years 1 & 2.
Tell me about Detroit. They have a failed QB and a situation where Fields would be an upgrade.
Tell me about Philadelphia. They had a golden opportunity to trade ahead of us and take Fields.
And jeepers, tell me about Denver....
Why didn't the Browns or Bills bring in backups after Baker and Allen's first two seasons? Why doesn't Arizona have a decent backup? why didn't the Rams backup Goff if they were dissatisfied?
Who exactly are these teams that are trying to create a QB competition?
Exaggeration seems to be a mainstay here. We "hugely overpaid" Golladay too?
Yes agree, although his critics don't just point to stats. I support his 3rd year but have seen plenty of non-stat reasons on Sundays to be very concerned.
Those words are a bit too close I guess...
I think that you are on the side almost everyone else is. They support his third year, see some reasons for concern, and that this is when he has to put up or be gone. Other than GT and, maybe bw(?), virtually everyone else is on the same page.
Sides...whatever. Huge concerns on DJ, but yeah I support him moreso to let it run its course in year 3. Not a big issue as there is no Lombardi coming this season anyway. If he succeeds and he looks the part, then all the better.
And at least it gave that moron GM (thru the obvious help of JJ) another offseason to fix the shitty roster he put together and stuck Jones with anyway.
Why didn't the Browns or Bills bring in backups after Baker and Allen's first two seasons? Why doesn't Arizona have a decent backup? why didn't the Rams backup Goff if they were dissatisfied?
Who exactly are these teams that are trying to create a QB competition?
Exaggeration seems to be a mainstay here. We "hugely overpaid" Golladay too?
Wouldn't AZ support GT's point (Murray for Rosen)?
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the new "Jints Central"?
I felt it was time for an upgrade. So we're in the test marketing phase... ;)
See, you can do to pithy...
Haskins was dumped too, and that was almost exclusively due to his character and work ethic.
Considering you also had Ryan Finley and Drew Lock as being really good QB prospects coming out, I'm not sure you really have much of a right to post things as if anything is comfortable. Fields will get a chance to prove he can play - so the answer will be clearly seen in the years to come.
Indeed, Finley has been horrible. But I still like Lock and am curious to see how he does if Denver doesn't trade for Rodgers.
But evaluating QBs is very difficult. On the other hand, since you are keeping score, I was pretty spot on with Allen and Herbert. And said Haskins was not going to work in the NFL.
Regardless, I stand by my Fields view and challenge anyone to say he's not a better prospect at this point than Jones was. I believe Sy graded Fields higher than Jones...
So then it comes to how much of a difference does it take to jump ship after 2 years.
Giants coach Joe Judge said most other NFL players would have missed more than only two games.
“Look, Daniel is the last guy that’s going to use anything as an excuse,” Judge, who rarely talks about injuries, told The Michael Kay Show on Monday. What I would say about the injury last year is it was much more serious than maybe people thought on the outside. I would say probably 90 percent of players in the league who would have had that injury, including quarterbacks, would have been on IR for the remainder of the year.
That’s just the reality of it. It was much more severe than maybe he allowed people to know or the information that was put out there, and we’re going to protect our players by not disclosing everything about their injuries to be honest with you. He fought through a lot of things. He earned a lot of people’s respect.”
So then it comes to how much of a difference does it take to jump ship after 2 years.
Here's my angle here - Garrett. Fields is a more athletic Dak. So if you give him a better version of Dak - and Garrett did excellent work with Dak - things could be very interesting...
If you don't think Jones can EVER do this or that, that is a fair belief, but perhaps not one that is going to move any conversation forward, because the soonest it's going to be addressed won't be until next offseason anyway.
Wish we could just put all this bullshit behind us since what's done is done and now they have to play the games. Perhaps all of this other stuff can be revisited once the dust has settled in 2022.
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but it doesn't seem like its a big enough difference like Lawrence to Jones would be. Lawrence is a much better prospect than Fields, IMO.
So then it comes to how much of a difference does it take to jump ship after 2 years.
Here's my angle here - Garrett. Fields is a more athletic Dak. So if you give him a better version of Dak - and Garrett did excellent work with Dak - things could be very interesting...
Personally i'm not doing anything for Jason Garrett - sink or swim time for him too. I think the Giants know he's gone after this year either by choice (HC offer if the Giants play well) or by being fired.
Giants coach Joe Judge said most other NFL players would have missed more than only two games.
“Look, Daniel is the last guy that’s going to use anything as an excuse,” Judge, who rarely talks about injuries, told The Michael Kay Show on Monday. What I would say about the injury last year is it was much more serious than maybe people thought on the outside. I would say probably 90 percent of players in the league who would have had that injury, including quarterbacks, would have been on IR for the remainder of the year.
That’s just the reality of it. It was much more severe than maybe he allowed people to know or the information that was put out there, and we’re going to protect our players by not disclosing everything about their injuries to be honest with you. He fought through a lot of things. He earned a lot of people’s respect.”
Already discussed. Look above for comments Nobody questioning DJs toughness although decision to play him was questioned by a few.
Additional thoughts?
If you don't think Jones can EVER do this or that, that is a fair belief, but perhaps not one that is going to move any conversation forward, because the soonest it's going to be addressed won't be until next offseason anyway.
Wish we could just put all this bullshit behind us since what's done is done and now they have to play the games. Perhaps all of this other stuff can be revisited once the dust has settled in 2022.
If you want common ground you could probably start by not assigning made up quotes to posters with whom you disagree.
If you don't think Jones can EVER do this or that, that is a fair belief, but perhaps not one that is going to move any conversation forward, because the soonest it's going to be addressed won't be until next offseason anyway.
Wish we could just put all this bullshit behind us since what's done is done and now they have to play the games. Perhaps all of this other stuff can be revisited once the dust has settled in 2022.
They have painted themselves into a corner. If Jones breaks out, it is going to be brutal for them here. If the Giants move on from Jones before he has the chance to shine, it preserves their narrative. I don't want to jinx it, but I figure Jones has a chance to win me a fantasy league or 2.
I think his AY/A is going to shock those that use that metric to criticize him and they will be unable to not give him credit. The big play potential of the players that have been brought in and those that have returned from injury are going to augment his stats in a very positive way.
YAC boosts the shit out of AY/A as do TDs. We got him some wonderful red zone targets and a human joystick. Big plays in 2021.
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I just wish some common ground could be found so that we can all look forward to, and talk about the upcoming season positively. Critical is fine, but leave the door open to talk about the positives as well.
If you don't think Jones can EVER do this or that, that is a fair belief, but perhaps not one that is going to move any conversation forward, because the soonest it's going to be addressed won't be until next offseason anyway.
Wish we could just put all this bullshit behind us since what's done is done and now they have to play the games. Perhaps all of this other stuff can be revisited once the dust has settled in 2022.
I am very critical of the team but once I am past the decision it is time to deal with reality. I think we all agree we had a good draft. The people giving the credit to Judge are the same people saying we should have moved on from Jones. Judge is clearly in Jones corner or he would have drafted Fields or Mac. That just is what it is.
They have painted themselves into a corner. If Jones breaks out, it is going to be brutal for them here. If the Giants move on from Jones before he has the chance to shine, it preserves their narrative. I don't want to jinx it, but I figure Jones has a chance to win me a fantasy league or 2.
I think his AY/A is going to shock those that use that metric to criticize him and they will be unable to not give him credit. The big play potential of the players that have been brought in and those that have returned from injury are going to augment his stats in a very positive way.
YAC boosts the shit out of AY/A as do TDs. We got him some wonderful red zone targets and a human joystick. Big plays in 2021.
To be fair, using AY/A to criticize any QB exposes the poster's ignorance. You made a great point about how having more weapons will almost assuredly lead to AY/A.
And that's because actual football people use it as a measure of offensive efficiency, not a QB measurement. Go Terps tries to use it as a "AHA" moment, but all it does is pull make one more layer of the onion covering up his bias and agenda (which isn't well covered to begin with)
Darnold's actually had a worse career than Jones (an avg QBR of low 40s vs. nearly 60 for Jones), as well as a third season (to prove or not prove himself), which is all most of Jones' defenders are asking for.
You said that Daniel Jones wouldn't be more than a career backup.
You said that Dave Gettleman could go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and you would still consider it a bad job.
If I didn't get it EXACTLY right, then my bad. But you said some semblance of both of those statements. I don't know why you're pivoting on it now. If you want to say it was out of context, fine. But do you deny saying either of those things?
I'm just going to use "wins".
I don't think even his detractors would say that Jones held the team back in these past 2 years. He might not have uplifted them, but they would not have won much with pretty much anyone at QB.
The roster is now set up so that we may be able to say that they if they do not win, Jones is holding them back. It's possible, but I really doubt it, that they will win and we will know that it was "in spite of Jones".
I'm just going to use "wins".
I don't think even his detractors would say that Jones held the team back in these past 2 years. He might not have uplifted them, but they would not have won much with pretty much anyone at QB.
The roster is now set up so that we may be able to say that they if they do not win, Jones is holding them back. It's possible, but I really doubt it, that they will win and we will know that it was "in spite of Jones".
Not true. It was said that if we had drafted Herbert, we'd have made the playoffs(even though Herbert didn't even make the fucking playoffs). also, I'm pretty sure it was said that Nick Mullens was worth a couple extra wins this year too. I'm not going to scour the archives, but I know this was said: At least two guys on this thread posted in the past that a "NFL average QB" has us in the playoffs. So draw the conclusion from that what you will.
Here's my angle here - Garrett. Fields is a more athletic Dak. So if you give him a better version of Dak - and Garrett did excellent work with Dak - things could be very interesting...
Personally i'm not doing anything for Jason Garrett - sink or swim time for him too. I think the Giants know he's gone after this year either by choice (HC offer if the Giants play well) or by being fired.
If Jones has a good season, do you still want Garrett gone? And then have a third OC for Jones?
You said that Daniel Jones wouldn't be more than a career backup.
You said that Dave Gettleman could go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and you would still consider it a bad job.
There might be some posters who make declarations using definitives like "ever," "never," "no way," "always," etc. But I think they're relatively rare and I definitely haven't seen Terps do so without being obviously sarcastic or hyperbolic for effect. There's a difference, however subtle, between saying, "It doesn't look like Jones will become an elite QB" and "Jones will never become an elite QB."
You said that Daniel Jones wouldn't be more than a career backup.
You said that Dave Gettleman could go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and you would still consider it a bad job.
If I didn't get it EXACTLY right, then my bad. But you said some semblance of both of those statements. I don't know why you're pivoting on it now. If you want to say it was out of context, fine. But do you deny saying either of those things?
I said Jones is an NFL backup. The 18-0 Super Bowl quote not only went over your head, you exaggerated it to completely change the meaning and make it sound crazy. Total bullshit move.
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Here's my angle here - Garrett. Fields is a more athletic Dak. So if you give him a better version of Dak - and Garrett did excellent work with Dak - things could be very interesting...
Personally i'm not doing anything for Jason Garrett - sink or swim time for him too. I think the Giants know he's gone after this year either by choice (HC offer if the Giants play well) or by being fired.
If Jones has a good season, do you still want Garrett gone? And then have a third OC for Jones?
Ig he has a good season, the Giants are winning. Garrett would be as good as gone anyway. We should resign ourselves to this being the last year of the Judge-Garrett team.
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but I'm pretty sure you said both of those things.
You said that Daniel Jones wouldn't be more than a career backup.
You said that Dave Gettleman could go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and you would still consider it a bad job.
There might be some posters who make declarations using definitives like "ever," "never," "no way," "always," etc. But I think they're relatively rare and I definitely haven't seen Terps do so without being obviously sarcastic or hyperbolic for effect. There's a difference, however subtle, between saying, "It doesn't look like Jones will become an elite QB" and "Jones will never become an elite QB."
I think that the subsequent post made yours moot.
Not true. It was said that if we had drafted Herbert, we'd have made the playoffs(even though Herbert didn't even make the fucking playoffs). also, I'm pretty sure it was said that Nick Mullens was worth a couple extra wins this year too. I'm not going to scour the archives, but I know this was said: At least two guys on this thread posted in the past that a "NFL average QB" has us in the playoffs. So draw the conclusion from that what you will.
Well, the Chargers were in the AFCW, a real division. And finished 7-9, which would have been good enough - likely - to win the NFCE.
The NFCE winners only 7-9. NYG was one game back. So it's not a wild assertion to think if we had average QB play we likely win the NFCE. Because Jones was a below average QB last year just using QBR as the benchmark.
The detractors think that Jones was a key reason the team hasn't been good - which is why they beat each of these fucking threads to death with the nonsense.
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but I'm pretty sure you said both of those things.
You said that Daniel Jones wouldn't be more than a career backup.
You said that Dave Gettleman could go 18-0 and win the Superbowl and you would still consider it a bad job.
If I didn't get it EXACTLY right, then my bad. But you said some semblance of both of those statements. I don't know why you're pivoting on it now. If you want to say it was out of context, fine. But do you deny saying either of those things?
I said Jones is an NFL backup. The 18-0 Super Bowl quote not only went over your head, you exaggerated it to completely change the meaning and make it sound crazy. Total bullshit move.
How did I exaggerate it or misinterpret it? Even with your correction/context:
"Going 18-0 next season wouldn't make up for the bad job Gettleman has done for the prior three years".
Is that more accurate?
It's still nuts. 18-0 would make up for the Giants going 0-48 over the past three years. 18-0 would make up for the past decade of losing. 18-0 would be the greatest achievement in the history of the NFL and Gettleman would deserve FULL credit for that. What am I missing? Basically, you'd still find a way to shit on Gettleman even after an 18-0 season?
You may want to just refrain from quoting or citing other posters.
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Not true. It was said that if we had drafted Herbert, we'd have made the playoffs(even though Herbert didn't even make the fucking playoffs). also, I'm pretty sure it was said that Nick Mullens was worth a couple extra wins this year too. I'm not going to scour the archives, but I know this was said: At least two guys on this thread posted in the past that a "NFL average QB" has us in the playoffs. So draw the conclusion from that what you will.
Well, the Chargers were in the AFCW, a real division. And finished 7-9, which would have been good enough - likely - to win the NFCE.
The NFCE winners only 7-9. NYG was one game back. So it's not a wild assertion to think if we had average QB play we likely win the NFCE. Because Jones was a below average QB last year just using QBR as the benchmark.
If Jones shits the bed this year, I will be with you. I don't see it though. I think this coaching staff has evaluated him and provided him perfect schematic fits. If you were to back off the tiniest bit, you could enjoy his potential success this season. Right now, you are setting yourself up to take a beating every time he has a good game.
The people that are saying prove it in 2021 are going to be able to roll with whatever happens. If he exceeds expectations and has an Allen like 3rd year, you will be thrown in a tar pit and then covered in feathers.
Figuratively.
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Here's my angle here - Garrett. Fields is a more athletic Dak. So if you give him a better version of Dak - and Garrett did excellent work with Dak - things could be very interesting...
Personally i'm not doing anything for Jason Garrett - sink or swim time for him too. I think the Giants know he's gone after this year either by choice (HC offer if the Giants play well) or by being fired.
If Jones has a good season, do you still want Garrett gone? And then have a third OC for Jones?
No but I don't think it will be up to us, he'd likely get a HC offer. Plus Kitchens sounds like he's heavily involved anyway, so I don't really view this as JG's offense to begin with.
You may want to just refrain from quoting or citing other posters.
And what's the point of pointing that out? What is the rationale? What exactly am I missing in that statement?
This shit is so stupid.
Bill L. - landing on a turning aircraft carrier or something like that I recall?
The detractors think that Jones was a key reason the team hasn't been good - which is why they beat each of these fucking threads to death with the nonsense.
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In comment 15254985 UConn4523 said:
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Here's my angle here - Garrett. Fields is a more athletic Dak. So if you give him a better version of Dak - and Garrett did excellent work with Dak - things could be very interesting...
Personally i'm not doing anything for Jason Garrett - sink or swim time for him too. I think the Giants know he's gone after this year either by choice (HC offer if the Giants play well) or by being fired.
If Jones has a good season, do you still want Garrett gone? And then have a third OC for Jones?
Ig he has a good season, the Giants are winning. Garrett would be as good as gone anyway. We should resign ourselves to this being the last year of the Judge-Garrett team.
Agree. Good offensive season and Garrett's name will be called again to be a HC which he should take. Bad season and he's fired.
This shit is so stupid.
They can't go 18-0. There are 17 games in the regular season (16 when I posted that months ago).
It's not my job to cut your food and chew it for you. If you don't understand what someone is saying, don't embellish it, throw it in their face later, and claim you hope for common ground.
If Jones has a great year in 21 you'll be the first guy killing me for it. Please.
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for Gettleman's 4 years.... means what exactly?
This shit is so stupid.
They can't go 18-0. There are 17 games in the regular season (16 when I posted that months ago).
It's not my job to cut your food and chew it for you. If you don't understand what someone is saying, don't embellish it, throw it in their face later, and claim you hope for common ground.
If Jones has a great year in 21 you'll be the first guy killing me for it. Please.
I'll have to get in a long line, I'm sure.