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Giants coach Joe Judge said most other NFL players would have missed more than only two games. “Look, Daniel is the last guy that’s going to use anything as an excuse,” Judge, who rarely talks about injuries, told The Michael Kay Show on Monday. What I would say about the injury last year is it was much more serious than maybe people thought on the outside. I would say probably 90 percent of players in the league who would have had that injury, including quarterbacks, would have been on IR for the remainder of the year. That’s just the reality of it. It was much more severe than maybe he allowed people to know or the information that was put out there, and we’re going to protect our players by not disclosing everything about their injuries to be honest with you. He fought through a lot of things. He earned a lot of people’s respect.” |
And I know BBI didn't exist at the time, but I'm sure Phil Simms was getting a lot of love in 1984 (his 6th season).
I know it's a different era now, but is it too much to ask to acknowledge D. Jones had a shitload of things working against him in his 2nd year and give him a 3rd season to prove himself (with a more experienced OL and some actual legit weapons)?
Fortunately the HC, GM, et al. don't agree with the haters. And if D. Jones does prove himself this year, we'll be SO much further towards the end goal than we would be if we hit reset again.
And I know BBI didn't exist at the time, but I'm sure Phil Simms was getting a lot of love in 1984 (his 6th season).
I know it's a different era now, but is it too much to ask to acknowledge D. Jones had a shitload of things working against him in his 2nd year and give him a 3rd season to prove himself (with a more experienced OL and some actual legit weapons)?
Fortunately the HC, GM, et al. don't agree with the haters. And if D. Jones does prove himself this year, we'll be SO much further towards the end goal than we would be if we hit reset again.
Heck, in 1986 Simms was still getting booed judging by footage from the America's Game episode on the 1986 Giants.
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
I don't know if you were talking to me, but I posted pretty early in this thread and praised Jones toughness and said this made me feel better about his play last year (though people did raise a good point that if he was that hurt, he shouldn't have been out there).
But yeah, I agree, it isn't the Supreme Court, it's a Giants message board. That's why I think it's silly that people are acting like those who aren't bought in on Jones are "bad fans", or don't have valid opinions.
There's a debate to be had about whether people think he can make a leap, but no "side" is inherently wrong or flawed. I do think people have blind faith though (and it's the same people telling others they're bad fans, or think people are rooting for Jones to fail just to pat themselves on the back).
This isn't a perfect 1:1 example, but I absolutely hated the OBJ pick. I wanted Zach Martin. In retrospect, the team would be better with Zach Martin. But when OBJ was all pro and the best WR in Giants history for a period of time, I enjoyed it and rooted my ass off for him. I was super stoked to be totally wrong. When it all went south, I didn't pat myself on the back and say I was right all along -- I was instead disappointed the full trajectory of his career didn't manifest itself.
People forget sometimes that we are all Giants fans and all we want is to see the team win. We might have different opinions about how to get there, but nobody will be pissed if Jones shuts up the doubters and blossoms into an awesome QB.
Great post. This isn't a referendum on Jones - it is a referendum on Giants "decision making". Defending poor performance or making excuses will always raise visceral fan reaction because of the team's legacy of poor decision making. Judge appears to be changing this for the better ala George Young. Unfortunately, Judge's comments give fuel to both sides of the debate and create the fear that poor managerial decision making could rear its ugly ahead at any time.
We are all great Giants fans and I would expect lots of passionate and differing opinions on this matter in the year ahead.
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In comment 15252895 Britt in VA said:
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
I don't know if you were talking to me, but I posted pretty early in this thread and praised Jones toughness and said this made me feel better about his play last year (though people did raise a good point that if he was that hurt, he shouldn't have been out there).
But yeah, I agree, it isn't the Supreme Court, it's a Giants message board. That's why I think it's silly that people are acting like those who aren't bought in on Jones are "bad fans", or don't have valid opinions.
There's a debate to be had about whether people think he can make a leap, but no "side" is inherently wrong or flawed. I do think people have blind faith though (and it's the same people telling others they're bad fans, or think people are rooting for Jones to fail just to pat themselves on the back).
This isn't a perfect 1:1 example, but I absolutely hated the OBJ pick. I wanted Zach Martin. In retrospect, the team would be better with Zach Martin. But when OBJ was all pro and the best WR in Giants history for a period of time, I enjoyed it and rooted my ass off for him. I was super stoked to be totally wrong. When it all went south, I didn't pat myself on the back and say I was right all along -- I was instead disappointed the full trajectory of his career didn't manifest itself.
People forget sometimes that we are all Giants fans and all we want is to see the team win. We might have different opinions about how to get there, but nobody will be pissed if Jones shuts up the doubters and blossoms into an awesome QB.
Great post. This isn't a referendum on Jones - it is a referendum on Giants "decision making". Defending poor performance or making excuses will always raise visceral fan reaction because of the team's legacy of poor decision making. Judge appears to be changing this for the better ala George Young. Unfortunately, Judge's comments give fuel to both sides of the debate and create the fear that poor managerial decision making could rear its ugly ahead at any time.
We are all great Giants fans and I would expect lots of passionate and differing opinions on this matter in the year ahead.
Well this thread wasn't intended to be about Giants Decision Making, was it? It was intended to talk about Jones playing through serious injury, by way of a strong compliment from the coach.
And I know BBI didn't exist at the time, but I'm sure Phil Simms was getting a lot of love in 1984 (his 6th season).
I know it's a different era now, but is it too much to ask to acknowledge D. Jones had a shitload of things working against him in his 2nd year and give him a 3rd season to prove himself (with a more experienced OL and some actual legit weapons)?
Fortunately the HC, GM, et al. don't agree with the haters. And if D. Jones does prove himself this year, we'll be SO much further towards the end goal than we would be if we hit reset again.
The problem is that several posters have taken it upon themselves to attack or defend Jones regardless of the conversation. It’s juvenile but it happens constantly.
Maybe we can have a thread like this praising Jones and not have someone call out Terps or BW? Maybe we could have a thread critical of Jones without someone calling out his defenders?
This is not a one way thing no matter how many - on both sides - want to believe that.
The problem is that several posters have taken it upon themselves to attack or defend Jones regardless of the conversation. It’s juvenile but it happens constantly.
Maybe we can have a thread like this praising Jones and not have someone call out Terps or BW? Maybe we could have a thread critical of Jones without someone calling out his defenders?
This is not a one way thing no matter how many - on both sides - want to believe that.
I can't speak for anybody that called anybody out, but let's face it, it would have happened inevitably whether a call out occurred or not.
I'm open to having a productive conversation on Jones, and it's probably already happened in some way shape or form, but these days it feels impossible.
Add to that, the fact he had to deal with that challenge without OTAs, a largely virtual camp, no preseason, a rookie LT, UDFA C who never played C, the worst WR corps in the league, Evan "Look, No Hands" Engram as his #1 target, etc., etc.
I'm rooting for him to kick major ass this year. Getting us to the 2nd rd of the playoffs would be a nice stepping stone (and maybe shut the haters TF up).
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In comment 15252908 Bear vs Shark said:
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In comment 15252895 Britt in VA said:
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
I don't know if you were talking to me, but I posted pretty early in this thread and praised Jones toughness and said this made me feel better about his play last year (though people did raise a good point that if he was that hurt, he shouldn't have been out there).
But yeah, I agree, it isn't the Supreme Court, it's a Giants message board. That's why I think it's silly that people are acting like those who aren't bought in on Jones are "bad fans", or don't have valid opinions.
There's a debate to be had about whether people think he can make a leap, but no "side" is inherently wrong or flawed. I do think people have blind faith though (and it's the same people telling others they're bad fans, or think people are rooting for Jones to fail just to pat themselves on the back).
This isn't a perfect 1:1 example, but I absolutely hated the OBJ pick. I wanted Zach Martin. In retrospect, the team would be better with Zach Martin. But when OBJ was all pro and the best WR in Giants history for a period of time, I enjoyed it and rooted my ass off for him. I was super stoked to be totally wrong. When it all went south, I didn't pat myself on the back and say I was right all along -- I was instead disappointed the full trajectory of his career didn't manifest itself.
People forget sometimes that we are all Giants fans and all we want is to see the team win. We might have different opinions about how to get there, but nobody will be pissed if Jones shuts up the doubters and blossoms into an awesome QB.
Great post. This isn't a referendum on Jones - it is a referendum on Giants "decision making". Defending poor performance or making excuses will always raise visceral fan reaction because of the team's legacy of poor decision making. Judge appears to be changing this for the better ala George Young. Unfortunately, Judge's comments give fuel to both sides of the debate and create the fear that poor managerial decision making could rear its ugly ahead at any time.
We are all great Giants fans and I would expect lots of passionate and differing opinions on this matter in the year ahead.
Well this thread wasn't intended to be about Giants Decision Making, was it? It was intended to talk about Jones playing through serious injury, by way of a strong compliment from the coach.
I know what the intention was, but as soon as Judge alludes to the fact that perhaps Jones should not have played over McCoy, who had just beaten the Seahawks in perhaps the best win in five years, it opens the door for visceral reaction to the decision and, by extension, Jones.
They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
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What we need is for people to express their opinions without personally attacking other posters. This thread went off the rails when someone fired a shot at Terps when he wasn’t on the thread.
The problem is that several posters have taken it upon themselves to attack or defend Jones regardless of the conversation. It’s juvenile but it happens constantly.
Maybe we can have a thread like this praising Jones and not have someone call out Terps or BW? Maybe we could have a thread critical of Jones without someone calling out his defenders?
This is not a one way thing no matter how many - on both sides - want to believe that.
I can't speak for anybody that called anybody out, but let's face it, it would have happened inevitably whether a call out occurred or not.
I'm open to having a productive conversation on Jones, and it's probably already happened in some way shape or form, but these days it feels impossible.
I think the Giants are trying to put Jones in a position that he can do his best, but the problem is how? What's more important? There's a lot of chicken and the egg between having better wide receivers and having a better offensive line so Jones has time to throw to said receivers. Perhaps with signing Kyle Rudolph who's a two-way tight end Engram can be lined up wide as a deep threat and not have to block, but he's gotta get better hands.
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
People didn't just pop off and say "Eli will be fine". Most often they were direct responses to other posters.
And, in a past is prologue type of thing, most of the criticism was his perceived penchant for an untimely fumble or interception.
I'm not sure that anyone is saying this.
The fact that Engram was the #1 target last year was a really bad shituation.
With the added weapons, Engram might be #4 or 5 target this year. That by itself will be an improvement. If he's targeted 25-30 times instead of 110, that's a win. Less damage.
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In comment 15252952 Mike from Ohio said:
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What we need is for people to express their opinions without personally attacking other posters. This thread went off the rails when someone fired a shot at Terps when he wasn’t on the thread.
The problem is that several posters have taken it upon themselves to attack or defend Jones regardless of the conversation. It’s juvenile but it happens constantly.
Maybe we can have a thread like this praising Jones and not have someone call out Terps or BW? Maybe we could have a thread critical of Jones without someone calling out his defenders?
This is not a one way thing no matter how many - on both sides - want to believe that.
I can't speak for anybody that called anybody out, but let's face it, it would have happened inevitably whether a call out occurred or not.
I'm open to having a productive conversation on Jones, and it's probably already happened in some way shape or form, but these days it feels impossible.
I think the Giants are trying to put Jones in a position that he can do his best, but the problem is how? What's more important? There's a lot of chicken and the egg between having better wide receivers and having a better offensive line so Jones has time to throw to said receivers. Perhaps with signing Kyle Rudolph who's a two-way tight end Engram can be lined up wide as a deep threat and not have to block, but he's gotta get better hands.
One of the main reasons I was so hopeful they would have drafted an offensive lineman is to take away the only excuse left - that Jones has an inferior OL and can't be properly evaluated until it is "NFL competent". Just the thought of that coming argument is hair raising.
At the end of the day, EVERYONE - I'd bet even Go Terps - would want to see DJ become a great QB. The question right now is if he's on track to do so.
At worst, that question is up in the air. Coming in and pretending like anyone who questions whether Jones will actually be a good starter for NYG has a "bullshit opinion" is asinine.
Who TF put you in charge?? Fuck off "MOM"
And not for nothing, but for a whole lot of people that show disdain for Go Terps and his opinions on DJ you all sure go about it in a ridiculous fashion. If he is on the thread you call him out for hijacking it, and if he isn't you call him out for what he would say if he was on it.
Why not just engage as it's obvious you want to, argue all you want, but keep it on the reservation.
If you think its pointless...then what's your point?
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
But the NFL as a whole isn't going to be giving QBs that time to develop anymore, which is why these comparisons to Eli and Simms are silly. It's not a NYG thing, it's an NFL thing. Between rookie contracts/options and the confluence of the college and pro games, teams need their first round QB picks to be "the guy" by year three.
Unless changes are made to the CBA, what we saw with the Jets and Darnold is going to become the norm for teams that don't have "the guy"
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
That being said, this year is definitely the prove-it year for Jones. He has a really solid supporting cast now. Even if it isn't Tiki/Shockey/Toomer/Plax and that line, it's no longer pure dogshit.
Barkley/Golladay/Toney/Shepard/Slayton/Engram/Rudolph is a decent amount of weapons. He's gotta improve this year.
On the other hand, Eli was much more highly regarded as a prospect and a better arm (plus the pedigree). Right or wrong, people are typically more patient with highly regarded prospects.
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Before this weekend I was worried he'd get both 2021 and 2022 to prove he's something other than what he's shown in five years of college and pro football.
Trading for Chicago's first rounder put that notion to bed. Either he becomes a productive quarterback for the first time in...ever...or it's good night the lights on the three year mistake.
I understand this point. There is logic to it. But Mara is a very patient, stubborn man. And I can't help but think he really wants to give Jones every chance to succeed/fail. So I still think Jones could get '22 as well to show if he has the right stuff.
Further, 2022 is not shaping up to be a bumper crop for QB prospects. Outside of Sam Howell it's an uninspiring class. Not a lot of dual threats. A lot of average looking pocket passers with some mobility. So thinking Jones's replacement could be just a year away - if he is poor again - is really wishful thinking right now.
Well, part of the Jones decision at the end of 2021 is going to have to include what does that QB crop look like for the 2022 Draft. Way too early for anybody to weigh in there.
There are other options than extending DJ or just drafting a QB. They can wait another year to make a heavier investment in a college prospect. But obviously that comes with the cost of waiting as other player contracts get a year older and the extra #1 is right now only for 2022.
They can also trade for an NFL QB and have lot of picks in their pocket to do it.
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Stop acting like everyone needs to share your opinion. You're coming hot at santacruzom who's been a great poster for a long time and never really fought with anyone -- simply because he doesn't share your opinion.
At the end of the day, EVERYONE - I'd bet even Go Terps - would want to see DJ become a great QB. The question right now is if he's on track to do so.
At worst, that question is up in the air. Coming in and pretending like anyone who questions whether Jones will actually be a good starter for NYG has a "bullshit opinion" is asinine.
Who TF put you in charge?? Fuck off "MOM"
When you're the one sitting there acting like there's no argument at all *against* him being a franchise QB, you're the one living in fantasy land.
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In comment 15252908 Bear vs Shark said:
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In comment 15252895 Britt in VA said:
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
I don't know if you were talking to me, but I posted pretty early in this thread and praised Jones toughness and said this made me feel better about his play last year (though people did raise a good point that if he was that hurt, he shouldn't have been out there).
But yeah, I agree, it isn't the Supreme Court, it's a Giants message board. That's why I think it's silly that people are acting like those who aren't bought in on Jones are "bad fans", or don't have valid opinions.
There's a debate to be had about whether people think he can make a leap, but no "side" is inherently wrong or flawed. I do think people have blind faith though (and it's the same people telling others they're bad fans, or think people are rooting for Jones to fail just to pat themselves on the back).
This isn't a perfect 1:1 example, but I absolutely hated the OBJ pick. I wanted Zach Martin. In retrospect, the team would be better with Zach Martin. But when OBJ was all pro and the best WR in Giants history for a period of time, I enjoyed it and rooted my ass off for him. I was super stoked to be totally wrong. When it all went south, I didn't pat myself on the back and say I was right all along -- I was instead disappointed the full trajectory of his career didn't manifest itself.
People forget sometimes that we are all Giants fans and all we want is to see the team win. We might have different opinions about how to get there, but nobody will be pissed if Jones shuts up the doubters and blossoms into an awesome QB.
Great post. This isn't a referendum on Jones - it is a referendum on Giants "decision making". Defending poor performance or making excuses will always raise visceral fan reaction because of the team's legacy of poor decision making. Judge appears to be changing this for the better ala George Young. Unfortunately, Judge's comments give fuel to both sides of the debate and create the fear that poor managerial decision making could rear its ugly ahead at any time.
We are all great Giants fans and I would expect lots of passionate and differing opinions on this matter in the year ahead.
Well this thread wasn't intended to be about Giants Decision Making, was it? It was intended to talk about Jones playing through serious injury, by way of a strong compliment from the coach.
I can tell you this though: there isn't a single person in this thread, even, I'd imagine, Jones's biggest detractors like GT, who think he isn't tough or isn't a high character guy.
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In comment 15252866 Bear vs Shark said:
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Stop acting like everyone needs to share your opinion. You're coming hot at santacruzom who's been a great poster for a long time and never really fought with anyone -- simply because he doesn't share your opinion.
At the end of the day, EVERYONE - I'd bet even Go Terps - would want to see DJ become a great QB. The question right now is if he's on track to do so.
At worst, that question is up in the air. Coming in and pretending like anyone who questions whether Jones will actually be a good starter for NYG has a "bullshit opinion" is asinine.
Who TF put you in charge?? Fuck off "MOM"
Nobody put me in charge -- I'm just telling you that you sound like a homer, a crybaby, and a petulant little child. Feel free to continue making yourself look like a fool because people have the audacity to question if Daniel fucking Jones is going to end up being a franchise QB or not (as if that isn't a valid question to ask).
When you're the one sitting there acting like there's no argument at all *against* him being a franchise QB, you're the one living in fantasy land.
The argument doesn't hold water. The offensive line has been horrible and the receivers haven't been much better. The kid deserves a fair test and until he fails he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
I came into this discussion to question why Jones was even playing if, per Judge, he probably shouldn't have been in the game in the first place. We were still competing for a division title, so we needed to put the best players in the game who gave us the best chance to win (even if that meant McCoy). Jones right now is a very limited pocket passer. But he's a threat on the move. By him not being able to do that, the people who cleared Jones hurt the team - IMV.
So that created an off ramp to question the judgment of the medical staff and the coaching staff.
But toughness doesn't really mean anything to me if you can't create more wins. So I can see why others wouldn't find this compliment by Judge to be persuasive in closing the gap why Jones is the solution at QB...
The problem is not with people’s varying opinions on Jones, it is with the inability to tolerate a difference of opinion. Why call out Ryan if Jones plays badly? Why call out Terps when the coach praises him? What prize are you looking for?
I wouldn’t care if people want to be provocative jerks, except that threads devolve into this silliness too often and this board becomes unreadable.
Well, part of the Jones decision at the end of 2021 is going to have to include what does that QB crop look like for the 2022 Draft. Way too early for anybody to weigh in there.
There are other options than extending DJ or just drafting a QB. They can wait another year to make a heavier investment in a college prospect. But obviously that comes with the cost of waiting as other player contracts get a year older and the extra #1 is right now only for 2022.
They can also trade for an NFL QB and have lot of picks in their pocket to do it.
That's true about using the picks to possibly acquire another QB via trade - good point.
But not all draft classes are created equal. So just because the last few looked good we shouldn't assume the next class will look similar. Because right now it isn't shaping up to that attractive outside of Howell and maybe - maybe - Rattler.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
And that's what it's always about for you. Enjoyment. Not winning, just enjoyment.
Same reason why you celebrated the pregame shows two years ago.
I just don't understand why it doesn't matter to you for the Giants to actually be good at football.
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
The NFL was different then. That was 17 years ago that Eli entered the league.
We're now seeing QBs win the MVP in their second year, repeatedly. There isn't the same learning curve that there used to be. Could DJ break out this year and put it all together? Absolutely.
I just don't understand why anyone thinks that's the chalk. He's even money at best.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
They deserve their say as much you do.
Britt's going to tell you that you're "moving the goalposts" if you acknowledge any view other than his.
And spend all the draft picks every year on OL until the unit is "fixed".
(i.e. you CANT have a productive conversation on the QB when those fans have a "win NOW, no excuses, even if he has to play all 11 positions by himself simultaneously)
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In comment 15252542 LeonBright45 said:
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In comment 15252538 santacruzom said:
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In comment 15252454 ryanmkeane said:
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who are not willing to develop a quarterback.
I think it's more a matter of a few posters who don't believe that Jones automatically qualifies as a "developmental quarterback."
^^Most idiotic post of the day^^
Don't be am ass. It's way too obtuse to label Jones' critics as people who just think a QB should immediately be stellar and never have to develop their skills.
I'd say they just don't think he'll put it together and be elite. It's a common tale that we've seen with dozens of QBs. Why should freaking Daniel Jones of all people be exempt from this concern?
I bet you believe every QB will never 'put it together and be elite" until the time actually comes and then you stand up on your chair and scream that you knew he could do it all along.
I'll take that bet. I win! What do you owe me?
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Well, part of the Jones decision at the end of 2021 is going to have to include what does that QB crop look like for the 2022 Draft. Way too early for anybody to weigh in there.
There are other options than extending DJ or just drafting a QB. They can wait another year to make a heavier investment in a college prospect. But obviously that comes with the cost of waiting as other player contracts get a year older and the extra #1 is right now only for 2022.
They can also trade for an NFL QB and have lot of picks in their pocket to do it.
That's true about using the picks to possibly acquire another QB via trade - good point.
But not all draft classes are created equal. So just because the last few looked good we shouldn't assume the next class will look similar. Because right now it isn't shaping up to that attractive outside of Howell and maybe - maybe - Rattler.
Yes, very true. Just suggesting top guys come forward sometimes in just one year (like a Joe Burrow) so the QB radar isn't yet on full force.
I want DJ to succeed as stated numerous times, but NYG fans might also have to endure a few more seasons before their franchise guy is actually on the horizon...
And spend all the draft picks every year on OL until the unit is "fixed".
(i.e. you CANT have a productive conversation on the QB when those fans have a "win NOW, no excuses, even if he has to play all 11 positions by himself simultaneously)
I'm not sure anyone is actually asking for that.
I think it's perfectly fair to ask that if you're going to defend DJ, you should acknowledge that his production last season was at the junior varsity level and he needs to improve if we're going to win.
That's what it's about: we are all rooting for the Giants to win. We don't all have the same path in mind to achieve that, but we all are rooting for the same goal.
I'm just not sure why certain fans need to celebrate their state of denial along the way.
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Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
I came into this discussion to question why Jones was even playing if, per Judge, he probably shouldn't have been in the game in the first place. We were still competing for a division title, so we needed to put the best players in the game who gave us the best chance to win (even if that meant McCoy). Jones right now is a very limited pocket passer. But he's a threat on the move. By him not being able to do that, the people who cleared Jones hurt the team - IMV.
So that created an off ramp to question the judgment of the medical staff and the coaching staff.
But toughness doesn't really mean anything to me if you can't create more wins. So I can see why others wouldn't find this compliment by Judge to be persuasive in closing the gap why Jones is the solution at QB...
I wrote:
The point being Field was able to keep playing, despite obviously being hurt, and still be productive. Let me write that word again - productive. And that's been my point all along - if you are hurt, but you can play and still be productive, than that still helps the team.
Jones was hurt but couldn't be productive.
And I know you are smart enough to get the point.
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
And that's what it's always about for you. Enjoyment. Not winning, just enjoyment.
Same reason why you celebrated the pregame shows two years ago.
I just don't understand why it doesn't matter to you for the Giants to actually be good at football.
I enjoy football. I also enjoy winning.
I'd be Britt is the same.
This is more about enjoying BBI than it is about enjoying Giants football.
And spend all the draft picks every year on OL until the unit is "fixed".
(i.e. you CANT have a productive conversation on the QB when those fans have a "win NOW, no excuses, even if he has to play all 11 positions by himself simultaneously)
What is preventing you and Britt from having that conversation on here or any other thread? Go right ahead. Type him a post and converse about DJ...
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In comment 15252895 Britt in VA said:
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
And that's what it's always about for you. Enjoyment. Not winning, just enjoyment.
Same reason why you celebrated the pregame shows two years ago.
I just don't understand why it doesn't matter to you for the Giants to actually be good at football.
Dunk, that's unwarranted and unfair.
I enjoy football. I also enjoy winning.
I'd be Britt is the same.
This is more about enjoying BBI than it is about enjoying Giants football.
No, it's more than BBI. Otherwise he wouldn't have been celebrating how much enjoyed the pregame shows after OBJ was traded.
He appears to have a very strict framework for the sort of Giants team that he wants to root for, and he'll buy in for that product regardless of whether it delivers wins.
That's not to say that he doesn't enjoy the wins as much as any Giants fan. But he sure does excuse the losses a lot more if they satisfy his sitcom expectation for the team.
Okay, kudos to you for not literally calling people idiots when their opinion differs from yours. You're just calling their opinions blatant bullshit, which is much better.
And watch it dissolve into this same shitty back forth over and over again. Like Groundhog day... lol
And yes I am convinced that some people just don't know how to embrace any optimism at all about this team. No matter what our record becomes or how well we are doing.
And watch it dissolve into this same shitty back forth over and over again. Like Groundhog day... lol
And yes I am convinced that some people just don't know how to embrace any optimism at all about this team. No matter what our record becomes or how well we are doing.
I'm actually VERY optimistic about this team.
But the pollyannas are tiresome even when the arrow is pointing up.
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In comment 15252951 Bear vs Shark said:
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
But the NFL as a whole isn't going to be giving QBs that time to develop anymore, which is why these comparisons to Eli and Simms are silly. It's not a NYG thing, it's an NFL thing. Between rookie contracts/options and the confluence of the college and pro games, teams need their first round QB picks to be "the guy" by year three.
Unless changes are made to the CBA, what we saw with the Jets and Darnold is going to become the norm for teams that don't have "the guy"
I acknowledged that it's a different era, but considering the circumstances (e.g., Kevin Gilbride saying '21 "should be considered his 2nd year"), can we give him THIS FUCKING YEAR?
The Jets gave Darnold a 3rd year to prove himself! He failed and the Jets are moving on. That's all anyone's asking for. Jones 3rd year to prove himself.
Darnold hadn't even performed as well as Jones has his first 2 years (avg QBR low 40s vs. nearly 60). And though Darnold did have to deal with a new coach and offense, it wasn't during the fucking pandemic, preventing OTAs, preseason, etc.
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In comment 15252963 Dr. D said:
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In comment 15252951 Bear vs Shark said:
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
But the NFL as a whole isn't going to be giving QBs that time to develop anymore, which is why these comparisons to Eli and Simms are silly. It's not a NYG thing, it's an NFL thing. Between rookie contracts/options and the confluence of the college and pro games, teams need their first round QB picks to be "the guy" by year three.
Unless changes are made to the CBA, what we saw with the Jets and Darnold is going to become the norm for teams that don't have "the guy"
I acknowledged that it's a different era, but considering the circumstances (e.g., Kevin Gilbride saying '21 "should be considered his 2nd year"), can we give him THIS FUCKING YEAR?
The Jets gave Darnold a 3rd year to prove himself! He failed and the Jets are moving on. That's all anyone's asking for. Jones 3rd year to prove himself.
Darnold hadn't even performed as well as Jones has his first 2 years (avg QBR low 40s vs. nearly 60). And though Darnold did have to deal with a new coach and offense, it wasn't during the fucking pandemic, preventing OTAs, preseason, etc.
So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
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In comment 15252963 Dr. D said:
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In comment 15252951 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
But the NFL as a whole isn't going to be giving QBs that time to develop anymore, which is why these comparisons to Eli and Simms are silly. It's not a NYG thing, it's an NFL thing. Between rookie contracts/options and the confluence of the college and pro games, teams need their first round QB picks to be "the guy" by year three.
Unless changes are made to the CBA, what we saw with the Jets and Darnold is going to become the norm for teams that don't have "the guy"
I acknowledged that it's a different era, but considering the circumstances (e.g., Kevin Gilbride saying '21 "should be considered his 2nd year"), can we give him THIS FUCKING YEAR?
The Jets gave Darnold a 3rd year to prove himself! He failed and the Jets are moving on. That's all anyone's asking for. Jones 3rd year to prove himself.
Darnold hadn't even performed as well as Jones has his first 2 years (avg QBR low 40s vs. nearly 60). And though Darnold did have to deal with a new coach and offense, it wasn't during the fucking pandemic, preventing OTAs, preseason, etc.
Are you joking around right now?
Jones IS getting that third year. No one is disputing that.
We're just discussing the team's future on a fucking message board.
Fortunately the HC, GM, et al. don't agree with the haters. And if D. Jones does prove himself this year, we'll be SO much further towards the end goal than we would be if we hit reset again.
Here's the thing though: "Fortunately, the Giants don't agree with the haters" is the exact sort of argument that was applied towards' Beckham's critics, all the way up to the point where Beckham was finally traded. Beckham's critics acknowledged his transcendental talent but were confident he would never learn to suppress his ego or selfishness, and would always wind up biting the team in the ass.
I see similarities here with most of Jones' critics/skeptics. Most of those who've said we should move on when an opportunity presents itself aren't ignoring his good games or good qualities. They just don't think they'll offset his bad ones. Is that really so crazy?
And spend all the draft picks every year on OL until the unit is "fixed".
(i.e. you CANT have a productive conversation on the QB when those fans have a "win NOW, no excuses, even if he has to play all 11 positions by himself simultaneously)
This is the classic "throw the first punch" and then complain that there is fighting in this establishment...
If "win now" isn't the objective, what is? Lose now but have lots of moral victories? Wait another decade to win? Thanks, but no thanks. Had my fill of that in the 1970s and this last decade.
The only objective is to start competing effectively and beating top tier NFL teams. NOW. Daniel Jones has yet to beat a winning team even once in his two years here. Can't say that about Eli. Can't say that about Phil. Can't even say that about Dave Brown.
When Jones starts beating good teams, the sentiment will change in his direction. Until then, skepticism will reign and the debate should rightfully rage on.
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In comment 15253000 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15252963 Dr. D said:
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In comment 15252951 Bear vs Shark said:
Quote:
They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
But the NFL as a whole isn't going to be giving QBs that time to develop anymore, which is why these comparisons to Eli and Simms are silly. It's not a NYG thing, it's an NFL thing. Between rookie contracts/options and the confluence of the college and pro games, teams need their first round QB picks to be "the guy" by year three.
Unless changes are made to the CBA, what we saw with the Jets and Darnold is going to become the norm for teams that don't have "the guy"
I acknowledged that it's a different era, but considering the circumstances (e.g., Kevin Gilbride saying '21 "should be considered his 2nd year"), can we give him THIS FUCKING YEAR?
The Jets gave Darnold a 3rd year to prove himself! He failed and the Jets are moving on. That's all anyone's asking for. Jones 3rd year to prove himself.
Darnold hadn't even performed as well as Jones has his first 2 years (avg QBR low 40s vs. nearly 60). And though Darnold did have to deal with a new coach and offense, it wasn't during the fucking pandemic, preventing OTAs, preseason, etc.
Are you joking around right now?
Jones IS getting that third year. No one is disputing that.
We're just discussing the team's future on a fucking message board.
Read the post above yours.