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Giants coach Joe Judge said most other NFL players would have missed more than only two games. “Look, Daniel is the last guy that’s going to use anything as an excuse,” Judge, who rarely talks about injuries, told The Michael Kay Show on Monday. What I would say about the injury last year is it was much more serious than maybe people thought on the outside. I would say probably 90 percent of players in the league who would have had that injury, including quarterbacks, would have been on IR for the remainder of the year. That’s just the reality of it. It was much more severe than maybe he allowed people to know or the information that was put out there, and we’re going to protect our players by not disclosing everything about their injuries to be honest with you. He fought through a lot of things. He earned a lot of people’s respect.” |
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
What progress did Darnold retard on the Jets? They moved away from him after year three, actually got something in return and drafted his successor.
And Darnold is a starting QB still in the league
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... with "Jones" in the title.
And watch it dissolve into this same shitty back forth over and over again. Like Groundhog day... lol
And yes I am convinced that some people just don't know how to embrace any optimism at all about this team. No matter what our record becomes or how well we are doing.
I'm actually VERY optimistic about this team.
But the pollyannas are tiresome even when the arrow is pointing up.
And I am optimistic as well now that JJ has started stretching his elbows a bit more around roster building. They have plugged for a lot of holes this offseason and with some decent QB play I think the NFCE division is for the taking.
Far from any title thoughts though until you start seeing them beating some of the stronger teams. But optimism nonetheless.
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In comment 15253076 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15252895 Britt in VA said:
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
And that's what it's always about for you. Enjoyment. Not winning, just enjoyment.
Same reason why you celebrated the pregame shows two years ago.
I just don't understand why it doesn't matter to you for the Giants to actually be good at football.
Dunk, that's unwarranted and unfair.
I enjoy football. I also enjoy winning.
I'd be Britt is the same.
This is more about enjoying BBI than it is about enjoying Giants football.
No, it's more than BBI. Otherwise he wouldn't have been celebrating how much enjoyed the pregame shows after OBJ was traded.
He appears to have a very strict framework for the sort of Giants team that he wants to root for, and he'll buy in for that product regardless of whether it delivers wins.
That's not to say that he doesn't enjoy the wins as much as any Giants fan. But he sure does excuse the losses a lot more if they satisfy his sitcom expectation for the team.
After the mess that was made re: OBj, I was happy for the trade.
(I missed Britt's post)
I think that "making excuses" may be very similar to, "accepting that which we cannot control."
I would argue, you are also "bought in," we all are.
We get to decide whether to complain/accept/excuse/vilify/enjoy...
...
There is not as much to like as dislike about DJ, right now...and I'm all-in. (because the alternative is...?)
That said, there seems to be more to like than dislike about DG. While I agree that we need to wait to see how the trades/drafts unfold, does that not make the case that when disparaging him, we should also wait to see how the trades/drafts unfold?
I enjoy conversation about W/Ls, analytics and the like.
I really enjoy breaking down film. (wish we could get Giants games on HUDL)
But, at the end of the day...
...I root for the guys on the roster. When one leaves, I root for a different guy.
I don’t understand why this concept is so hard to grasp at BBI. I don’t know why all of a sudden BBI became the “quarterbacks must be good immediately!” Message board because it’s not realistic. Go root for the Chiefs if you think that way.
Our roster absolutely sucked when Jones was drafted. They have done a good job since that time acquiring talent around him to set him for success. Yeah - it’s on him to play well even when things aren’t going his way. But you can’t expect that immediately, it takes time. If he’s still not getting it done in year 3 and doesn’t elevate his teammates in year 3, it’ll be time to look at another solution.
This notion that “oh the giants are just HOPING he’s good.”…….yeah no fucking shit.
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In comment 15253076 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15252895 Britt in VA said:
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There have been a lot of these threads repeating the same argument ad nauseum.
Ask yourself, did you really need to come into a thread where the coach was complimenting the kid's toughness in playing through serious injury just to shit on him yet again? Can people just have one f-cking thread where they can compliment the guy and share optimism? Just one?
Was it really necessary? What did it accomplish besides another argument of the exact same thing? Do you think we don't know your opinion on the guy at this point?
And that's what it's always about for you. Enjoyment. Not winning, just enjoyment.
Same reason why you celebrated the pregame shows two years ago.
I just don't understand why it doesn't matter to you for the Giants to actually be good at football.
Dunk, that's unwarranted and unfair.
I enjoy football. I also enjoy winning.
I'd be Britt is the same.
This is more about enjoying BBI than it is about enjoying Giants football.
No, it's more than BBI. Otherwise he wouldn't have been celebrating how much enjoyed the pregame shows after OBJ was traded.
He appears to have a very strict framework for the sort of Giants team that he wants to root for, and he'll buy in for that product regardless of whether it delivers wins.
That's not to say that he doesn't enjoy the wins as much as any Giants fan. But he sure does excuse the losses a lot more if they satisfy his sitcom expectation for the team.
So now your creating fictional narratives for other posters now, too? That is pretty outrageous.
Again, I'll abstain from doing the same to you.
There is not as much to like as dislike about DJ, right now...and I'm all-in. (because the alternative is...?)
That said, there seems to be more to like than dislike about DG. While I agree that we need to wait to see how the trades/drafts unfold, does that not make the case that when disparaging him, we should also wait to see how the trades/drafts unfold?
I enjoy conversation about W/Ls, analytics and the like.
I really enjoy breaking down film. (wish we could get Giants games on HUDL)
And yet other posters still like to converse about how trades/drafts unfolded for many past years, and how they might for years to come. Some don't have to wait and see to actually just type an opinion or make a point.
And its actually ok to do so...
You didn't start a thread celebrating how much more you enjoyed pregame shows (not games, just pregame shows) after OBJ was traded?
That's fiction?
C'mon man. FFS, you don't get the emotional side of managing humans at all. When the QB is willing to play hurt it matters. Every single championship season I watched this team play has been lead by warriors. Men that choose to sacrifice themselves for their brothers. When teams talk about culture it is this that they are trying to build. It is why OBJ had to go. When the QB is one the guys that is an example for toughness, the whole thing comes together. Think, Phil, Eli, Hoss. Those were tough bastards. Get someone on the D to match and we got something. You think LW has not been hurt in the trenches? He plays, it is a big reason why he was traded for and overpaid. You are taking shots at people that are going to be the reason you celebrate another championship. If you believe in Judge and Judge believes in DJ, what does that mean to you? If you tell me that Mara would force Judge to keep a bad young QB, I lose all respect for your opinions.
Again, this isn't about toughness or praising Jones's toughness, it's about questioning the the medical team and coaches. Not Mara. I have never mentioned Mara.
If Jones was as hurt as Judge suggests, and Jones wasn't going to be use his mobility, his key asset because he still isn't close to a refined pocket QB, than Jones shouldn't have been playing and we possibly lost at least one game - Arizona - because Jones wasn't truly ready to play.
Here is a stat I read today in NJ.com. In the first 10 games before suffering the hamstring injury, Jones averaged five rushes per game at a 7.8 yards per carry. In his final three games he played after the injury, Jones averaged 3.3 rushes and two yards per carry. So he was clearly incapable of using his best asset. And I think that hurt us in our attempt to win the division...
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maybe you should do some writing for some of those sitcoms you mention.
You didn't start a thread celebrating how much more you enjoyed pregame shows (not games, just pregame shows) after OBJ was traded?
That's fiction?
I don't remember if I did. Why do you so clearly?
This has gone far enough, it's too contentious and dare I say crossed a line of nastiness that it's not really entertaining or productive.
I'm done with this.
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In comment 15253166 Britt in VA said:
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maybe you should do some writing for some of those sitcoms you mention.
You didn't start a thread celebrating how much more you enjoyed pregame shows (not games, just pregame shows) after OBJ was traded?
That's fiction?
I don't remember if I did. Why do you so clearly?
This has gone far enough, it's too contentious and dare I say crossed a line of nastiness that it's not really entertaining or productive.
I'm done with this.
I remember very clearly that you did. Because my immediate reaction was, "why TF would anyone care about enjoying pregame shows more after a player was traded?"
I'm happy to go find the thread if you'd like. I don't think there's anything nasty about that, do you?
So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
Like I said when the Jets very unexpectedly secured a second round pick for Darnold, we should have seriously considered trading Jones because I think we could have actually sniffed a first. Especially from the Bears, ironically, who were desperate to give up picks to find a QB.
So if Jones struggles this year, and somehow we actually decide to move on, the debate will once again be this - could we have found a better solution in this past draft than the upcoming draft? Because right now the QBs that were drafted last week look considerably better than the QBs in next year's class. By a considerable margin.
Granted, that could change. But I wouldn't bet on that right now.
Although Googs did raise a good point earlier that we could use those '22 picks to trade for a QB instead.
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In comment 15253183 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 15253166 Britt in VA said:
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maybe you should do some writing for some of those sitcoms you mention.
You didn't start a thread celebrating how much more you enjoyed pregame shows (not games, just pregame shows) after OBJ was traded?
That's fiction?
I don't remember if I did. Why do you so clearly?
This has gone far enough, it's too contentious and dare I say crossed a line of nastiness that it's not really entertaining or productive.
I'm done with this.
I remember very clearly that you did. Because my immediate reaction was, "why TF would anyone care about enjoying pregame shows more after a player was traded?"
I'm happy to go find the thread if you'd like. I don't think there's anything nasty about that, do you?
Maybe we can answer it more quickly:
Did you enjoy pregame shows more after OBJ was traded?
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In comment 15252990 LeonBright45 said:
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In comment 15252866 Bear vs Shark said:
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Stop acting like everyone needs to share your opinion. You're coming hot at santacruzom who's been a great poster for a long time and never really fought with anyone -- simply because he doesn't share your opinion.
At the end of the day, EVERYONE - I'd bet even Go Terps - would want to see DJ become a great QB. The question right now is if he's on track to do so.
At worst, that question is up in the air. Coming in and pretending like anyone who questions whether Jones will actually be a good starter for NYG has a "bullshit opinion" is asinine.
Who TF put you in charge?? Fuck off "MOM"
Nobody put me in charge -- I'm just telling you that you sound like a homer, a crybaby, and a petulant little child. Feel free to continue making yourself look like a fool because people have the audacity to question if Daniel fucking Jones is going to end up being a franchise QB or not (as if that isn't a valid question to ask).
When you're the one sitting there acting like there's no argument at all *against* him being a franchise QB, you're the one living in fantasy land.
The argument doesn't hold water. The offensive line has been horrible and the receivers haven't been much better. The kid deserves a fair test and until he fails he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
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again, arguing with you is completely pointless. I’m not calling anyone an idiot for having a different opinion. But this is a message board, and I’m going to call out blatant bullshit when I see it. Such as conflating - which is what you do every single time.
Okay, kudos to you for not literally calling people idiots when their opinion differs from yours. You're just calling their opinions blatant bullshit, which is much better.
You can't converse with zealots. There is no point in trying.
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So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
Like I said when the Jets very unexpectedly secured a second round pick for Darnold, we should have seriously considered trading Jones because I think we could have actually sniffed a first. Especially from the Bears, ironically, who were desperate to give up picks to find a QB.
So if Jones struggles this year, and somehow we actually decide to move on, the debate will once again be this - could we have found a better solution in this past draft than the upcoming draft? Because right now the QBs that were drafted last week look considerably better than the QBs in next year's class. By a considerable margin.
Granted, that could change. But I wouldn't bet on that right now.
Although Googs did raise a good point earlier that we could use those '22 picks to trade for a QB instead.
You want Jones gone before he has a chance to make you look stupid and his success will make the magnitude of the DG complaining look childish. Stop making such definitive statements on things you have no expertise or pertinent information on and you wont be forced into fitting everything that happens into a narrow narrative.
You have no access to the information necessary to make such strong statements.
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Jesus fucking Christ. You’d think he was bleeding internally the way he talks about that play. He got a bruise and got shot up so he could deal with it later. He was fine. Somehow these two things are comparable.
I wrote:
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But he (Fields) dug deep, managed the agony, and threw three more TD passes against Clemson (he finished with six) to lead OSU to a dominant W. That's being tough and still being productive...
The point being Field was able to keep playing, despite obviously being hurt, and still be productive. Let me write that word again - productive. And that's been my point all along - if you are hurt, but you can play and still be productive, than that still helps the team.
Jones was hurt but couldn't be productive.
And I know you are smart enough to get the point.
Yeah because they were two completely different level of injuries. In fact Fields wasn't even hurt. He was bruised, big difference.
That needs to be a coach's decision if your QB wants to gut it out. He probably thought he'd be more productive than what the backup could give. And he almost pulled him until DJ led the TD drive.
I'm not sure that anyone is saying this.
You know, that's a good point. Really in this thread the only people who are saying that are a bit, shall we say, uncivil. It's probably not reasonable to act like they represent any sort of majority.
Here is a stat I read today in NJ.com. In the first 10 games before suffering the hamstring injury, Jones averaged five rushes per game at a 7.8 yards per carry. In his final three games he played after the injury, Jones averaged 3.3 rushes and two yards per carry. So he was clearly incapable of using his best asset. And I think that hurt us in our attempt to win the division...
If running is his best asset, we are in a world of trouble. He's a good runner with very good straightline speed, but let's not make him out to be Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray. If he can't make plays from the pocket, we will be looking for a new QB next year.
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Well, part of the Jones decision at the end of 2021 is going to have to include what does that QB crop look like for the 2022 Draft. Way too early for anybody to weigh in there.
There are other options than extending DJ or just drafting a QB. They can wait another year to make a heavier investment in a college prospect. But obviously that comes with the cost of waiting as other player contracts get a year older and the extra #1 is right now only for 2022.
They can also trade for an NFL QB and have lot of picks in their pocket to do it.
That's true about using the picks to possibly acquire another QB via trade - good point.
But not all draft classes are created equal. So just because the last few looked good we shouldn't assume the next class will look similar. Because right now it isn't shaping up to that attractive outside of Howell and maybe - maybe - Rattler.
Right now I feel confident that Slough will enter the conversation by November.
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In comment 15253129 Go Terps said:
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So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
Like I said when the Jets very unexpectedly secured a second round pick for Darnold, we should have seriously considered trading Jones because I think we could have actually sniffed a first. Especially from the Bears, ironically, who were desperate to give up picks to find a QB.
So if Jones struggles this year, and somehow we actually decide to move on, the debate will once again be this - could we have found a better solution in this past draft than the upcoming draft? Because right now the QBs that were drafted last week look considerably better than the QBs in next year's class. By a considerable margin.
Granted, that could change. But I wouldn't bet on that right now.
Although Googs did raise a good point earlier that we could use those '22 picks to trade for a QB instead.
Absurdity. There is not a team in the NFL that would move on from Jones right now because of last year. None. Every team in the league would be giving Jones a third year based on his specific circumstance.
You want Jones gone before he has a chance to make you look stupid and his success will make the magnitude of the DG complaining look childish. Stop making such definitive statements on things you have no expertise or pertinent information on and you wont be forced into fitting everything that happens into a narrow narrative.
You have no access to the information necessary to make such strong statements.
You're the one making strong statements..."Every team in the league would be giving Jones a third year based on his specific circumstance."
You make that statement despite having no expertise.
Here's what we do know:
- Jones was perhaps the least productive college quarterback drafted in the first round in the past decade
- Jones has had a very low level of production in two years in the NFL
That's what we know, definitively.
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In comment 15253022 Bear vs Shark said:
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In comment 15252990 LeonBright45 said:
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In comment 15252866 Bear vs Shark said:
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Stop acting like everyone needs to share your opinion. You're coming hot at santacruzom who's been a great poster for a long time and never really fought with anyone -- simply because he doesn't share your opinion.
At the end of the day, EVERYONE - I'd bet even Go Terps - would want to see DJ become a great QB. The question right now is if he's on track to do so.
At worst, that question is up in the air. Coming in and pretending like anyone who questions whether Jones will actually be a good starter for NYG has a "bullshit opinion" is asinine.
Who TF put you in charge?? Fuck off "MOM"
Nobody put me in charge -- I'm just telling you that you sound like a homer, a crybaby, and a petulant little child. Feel free to continue making yourself look like a fool because people have the audacity to question if Daniel fucking Jones is going to end up being a franchise QB or not (as if that isn't a valid question to ask).
When you're the one sitting there acting like there's no argument at all *against* him being a franchise QB, you're the one living in fantasy land.
The argument doesn't hold water. The offensive line has been horrible and the receivers haven't been much better. The kid deserves a fair test and until he fails he deserves the benefit of the doubt.
So what you're saying is that any argument whatsoever that Jones has not shown enough to have conviction that he is the franchise QB is automatically null and void and holds no water?
It is very possible that Jones shows enough next year to earn him another year that does not satisfy some as good enough. We will all have different degrees there.
The camp that believes things are changing because Judge has new power, should trust in him if he continues to extend the Jones experiment. Or is it going to be good decisions are Judge's and anything they disagree with is a mandate from Mara or DG? That kind of reasoning makes me laugh out loud at my computer. It deserves no response from anyone. It is absurdity.
There's a ton of now-outdated posts on that thread (including a lot of salary cap arguments that I made that are not especially valid anymore since the Giants have changed their cap approach - although they were definitely valid that offseason), but what is clear as day is how refreshed you were about a pregame show.
Maybe if you didn't try to apply the same thoughtless cookie-cutter approach to defending the Giants and actually offered some genuine critical thinking, people would take you more seriously. But for whatever reason, you seem unwilling to do that.
Link - ( New Window )
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In comment 15253217 bw in dc said:
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In comment 15253129 Go Terps said:
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So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
Like I said when the Jets very unexpectedly secured a second round pick for Darnold, we should have seriously considered trading Jones because I think we could have actually sniffed a first. Especially from the Bears, ironically, who were desperate to give up picks to find a QB.
So if Jones struggles this year, and somehow we actually decide to move on, the debate will once again be this - could we have found a better solution in this past draft than the upcoming draft? Because right now the QBs that were drafted last week look considerably better than the QBs in next year's class. By a considerable margin.
Granted, that could change. But I wouldn't bet on that right now.
Although Googs did raise a good point earlier that we could use those '22 picks to trade for a QB instead.
Absurdity. There is not a team in the NFL that would move on from Jones right now because of last year. None. Every team in the league would be giving Jones a third year based on his specific circumstance.
You want Jones gone before he has a chance to make you look stupid and his success will make the magnitude of the DG complaining look childish. Stop making such definitive statements on things you have no expertise or pertinent information on and you wont be forced into fitting everything that happens into a narrow narrative.
You have no access to the information necessary to make such strong statements.
You're the one making strong statements..."Every team in the league would be giving Jones a third year based on his specific circumstance."
You make that statement despite having no expertise.
Here's what we do know:
- Jones was perhaps the least productive college quarterback drafted in the first round in the past decade
- Jones has had a very low level of production in two years in the NFL
That's what we know, definitively.
The person with the most accurate and pertinent inside information on Jones is saying what? The guy with supposed power could have drafted Fields or Jones.
What did they do?
Ignore what they say.
What did they do?
They got him a weapon in the first round, not his replacement.
There's a ton of now-outdated posts on that thread (including a lot of salary cap arguments that I made that are not especially valid anymore since the Giants have changed their cap approach - although they were definitely valid that offseason), but what is clear as day is how refreshed you were about a pregame show.
Maybe if you didn't try to apply the same thoughtless cookie-cutter approach to defending the Giants and actually offered some genuine critical thinking, people would take you more seriously. But for whatever reason, you seem unwilling to do that.
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Are you high right now?
There is literally one post by me on that thread about the pre-game show. I said I enjoyed watching Barkley break down film more than I liked OBJ's sitdown with little wayne.
And what does this have to do with anything?
You want Jones gone before he has a chance to make you look stupid and his success will make the magnitude of the DG complaining look childish. Stop making such definitive statements on things you have no expertise or pertinent information on and you wont be forced into fitting everything that happens into a narrow narrative.
You have no access to the information necessary to make such strong statements.
I absolutely have information. And that's the market dictating the value of Darnold. So he's now a very good proxy to Jones.
Darnold been equally as poor as Jones - if not worse - yet the Jets were able to grab a second rounder. So why on earth would it be unreasonable to conclude we could possibly get a first for Jones?
Just to be clear, in no way am I saying Jones would be worth that in my eyes. But there was information before the 2019 draft that teams did like Jones as a QB prospect. And now we know there was a very good market for Darnold, who, again, isn't any better than Jones...
- Jones was perhaps the least productive college quarterback drafted in the first round in the past decade
- Jones has had a very low level of production in two years in the NFL
That's what we know, definitively.
Let's look at QB's production:
QB 1: 60% completion rate, 8201 yds passing 52 TD's 29 INTS. 1,323 rushing yards
QB2: 56% completion rate, 5,066 yards 44TD's 21 INTs, 767 rushing yards
QB3: 65% completion rate, 7,229 yards 57 TD's 22 INTs, 332 rushing yards
QB4: 62% completion rate, 5,450 yards, 42 TD's 21 INT's, 369 yards rushing
Can you name who has the worst stats there and who each QB is??
Hint - QB4 was a Big 12 QB where defenses are non-existent....
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Here is a stat I read today in NJ.com. In the first 10 games before suffering the hamstring injury, Jones averaged five rushes per game at a 7.8 yards per carry. In his final three games he played after the injury, Jones averaged 3.3 rushes and two yards per carry. So he was clearly incapable of using his best asset. And I think that hurt us in our attempt to win the division...
If running is his best asset, we are in a world of trouble. He's a good runner with very good straightline speed, but let's not make him out to be Lamar Jackson or Kyler Murray. If he can't make plays from the pocket, we will be looking for a new QB next year.
I wasn't suggesting Jones is in the same universe as LJax nd Murray as a runner. I meant who was mobile and he had the ability to get out of the pocket and perhaps save plays.
And I agree, if Jones could be a pocket passer - or at least considerably better than he is now - were will be back in the market looking for another solution...
I don’t understand why this concept is so hard to grasp at BBI. I don’t know why all of a sudden BBI became the “quarterbacks must be good immediately!” Message board because it’s not realistic. Go root for the Chiefs if you think that way.
Our roster absolutely sucked when Jones was drafted. They have done a good job since that time acquiring talent around him to set him for success. Yeah - it’s on him to play well even when things aren’t going his way. But you can’t expect that immediately, it takes time. If he’s still not getting it done in year 3 and doesn’t elevate his teammates in year 3, it’ll be time to look at another solution.
This notion that “oh the giants are just HOPING he’s good.”…….yeah no fucking shit.
Leagues change. NBA the focus is on the 3 ball now; NHL speed and skill matter more than size and grinding; MLB is about launch angle, exit velo, spin rate, etc; and the NFL is about passing and QB play. Round 1 QBs may get redshirted a year, but otherwise they're going to be expected to hit the ground running. Every fan of teams that drafted QBs this year are going to be expecting them to be good right away.
College stats for every QB drafted in round 1 since 2011:
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but you sure did miller the heck out of it defending your position on enjoying pregame shows.
There's a ton of now-outdated posts on that thread (including a lot of salary cap arguments that I made that are not especially valid anymore since the Giants have changed their cap approach - although they were definitely valid that offseason), but what is clear as day is how refreshed you were about a pregame show.
Maybe if you didn't try to apply the same thoughtless cookie-cutter approach to defending the Giants and actually offered some genuine critical thinking, people would take you more seriously. But for whatever reason, you seem unwilling to do that.
Link - ( New Window )
Are you high right now?
There is literally one post by me on that thread about the pre-game show. I said I enjoyed watching Barkley break down film more than I liked OBJ's sitdown with little wayne.
And what does this have to do with anything?
We had a great offseason and draft. Admittedly the NFC east was a shit show last year. We were in it up until the end. I don't care why. There is no sure thing is this division.
We had a great FA period.
The draft is the most respected that I can ever remember.
BBI should be celebrating.
BW & Terps love Giants as much as Britt & FMiC.
They do.
They just express it differently.
The former hate the losing so much that they spend enormous amounts of time here venting about it. They hold those in charge accountable.
Britt & FMiC hate the losing just as much, they come here and blow up at the people attacking their guys instead of attacking management.
I see the same people, people that like the team more than they should.
We are all the same.
We want the Giants to win.
Badly.
Worth remembering.
I'm not sure your grasp of the word definitive is strong, nor does pulling out a table that doesn't even include rushing yards
I concede I didn't do the same exercise for rushing yards. I'd be all in favor of using him much more as a rushing threat...I think his speed in the open field is a really good asset. It wouldn't surprise me though if the Giants use him less as a runner after being spooked by his injuries.
I think that answer is no.
The question is whether he should?
His first year was good for a rookie.
Those that say no, say circumstances matter. Stats against bad teams.
You lose me when you now ignore circumstance for Covid, everything that happened because of it and his injury. OL was awful to start, when it finally played better the kid was injured.
Can we agree we don't know and we let this year play out and see what we really have?
Physical toughness is less important at QB than it was in the 80s and earlier. Tom Brady hates getting hit. That hasn’t stopped him from winning more Super Bowls than all other active QBs combined.
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In comment 15253256 Gatorade Dunk said:
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but you sure did miller the heck out of it defending your position on enjoying pregame shows.
There's a ton of now-outdated posts on that thread (including a lot of salary cap arguments that I made that are not especially valid anymore since the Giants have changed their cap approach - although they were definitely valid that offseason), but what is clear as day is how refreshed you were about a pregame show.
Maybe if you didn't try to apply the same thoughtless cookie-cutter approach to defending the Giants and actually offered some genuine critical thinking, people would take you more seriously. But for whatever reason, you seem unwilling to do that.
Link - ( New Window )
Are you high right now?
There is literally one post by me on that thread about the pre-game show. I said I enjoyed watching Barkley break down film more than I liked OBJ's sitdown with little wayne.
And what does this have to do with anything?
They are attacking you instead of your argument it should be obvious why.
We had a great offseason and draft. Admittedly the NFC east was a shit show last year. We were in it up until the end. I don't care why. There is no sure thing is this division.
We had a great FA period.
The draft is the most respected that I can ever remember.
BBI should be celebrating.
BW & Terps love Giants as much as Britt & FMiC.
They do.
They just express it differently.
The former hate the losing so much that they spend enormous amounts of time here venting about it. They hold those in charge accountable.
Britt & FMiC hate the losing just as much, they come here and blow up at the people attacking their guys instead of attacking management.
I see the same people, people that like the team more than they should.
We are all the same.
We want the Giants to win.
Badly.
Worth remembering.
Couldn’t agree more, just because you are critical of the team or a player does not make you any less of a fan, in fact those who are so passionate probably are more critical because they demand excellence as they should.
With that being said, I think there is a lot of criticism that goes on here that ignores key facts. You can be critical, just don’t form an opinion in a vacuum and ignore key data points that run counter to your argument.
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So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
What progress did Darnold retard on the Jets? They moved away from him after year three, actually got something in return and drafted his successor.
And Darnold is a starting QB still in the league
I think he means the Jets could have drafted Jordan Love instead of Becton in 2020 and been real contenders this year instead of wasting the 2020 season. They just needed the right trigger man to put the trash roster on their back and lead them to promised land. What could have been.
College stats aren't meaningless, but they are close to meaningless. College systems and competition have way more to do with results than the actual player. I mean hell, by that table, Haskins should be a better NFL quarterback than Andrew Luck.
It's a round about way of saying Mike Leach quarterbacks are under drafted.
That's why QB's like Haskins will look great with that stat in college. Why an OSU or Alabama or Clemson QB will look good, while a Wyoming or Duke QB won't. It also is impacted by the calibre of team and defense teams are facing.
There was a claim that Jones is "definitively" worse than the other 1st round QB and yet if somebody tells me something is definitive, I usually can't recite off several examples showing otherwise.
That's why QB's like Haskins will look great with that stat in college. Why an OSU or Alabama or Clemson QB will look good, while a Wyoming or Duke QB won't. It also is impacted by the calibre of team and defense teams are facing.
There was a claim that Jones is "definitively" worse than the other 1st round QB and yet if somebody tells me something is definitive, I usually can't recite off several examples showing otherwise.
This is what I said:
"Here's what we do know:
- Jones was perhaps the least productive college quarterback drafted in the first round in the past decade
- Jones has had a very low level of production in two years in the NFL
That's what we know, definitively."
Further, the chart is sorted by passer rating, not AY/A. There is a high correlation between the two.
If you don't like passer rating, you can try sorting by straight Y/A or TD pass %. Jones is last out of all 49 in both categories. The only metric where Jones isn't at or very close to the bottom is INT % (he ranks 28th).
Just say you think Jones sucks - using a chart that says Dwayne Haskins should have been better than Andrew Luck is completely pointless
The value propositions on fanhood and legitimacy are silly.
Guessing the outcome will be bad, because you believe the evidence points that way, doesn't make you a bad fan in my view.
The vultures who fly in, pick at others, and without positing a view and having skin in the debate are the turds in my view.
I believe the evidence isn't daunting against Jones. He's had very few games where he's been both healthy and productive. I am nervous that the key to unlocking his potential requires a really good offensive line.
Seems to me the Giants chose really good skill players, over really good lineman.