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Giants coach Joe Judge said most other NFL players would have missed more than only two games. “Look, Daniel is the last guy that’s going to use anything as an excuse,” Judge, who rarely talks about injuries, told The Michael Kay Show on Monday. What I would say about the injury last year is it was much more serious than maybe people thought on the outside. I would say probably 90 percent of players in the league who would have had that injury, including quarterbacks, would have been on IR for the remainder of the year. That’s just the reality of it. It was much more severe than maybe he allowed people to know or the information that was put out there, and we’re going to protect our players by not disclosing everything about their injuries to be honest with you. He fought through a lot of things. He earned a lot of people’s respect.” |
Professional managers get paid, and more importantly are responsible for other’s careers.
I want what Buffalo is having.
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In comment 15253256 Gatorade Dunk said:
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but you sure did miller the heck out of it defending your position on enjoying pregame shows.
There's a ton of now-outdated posts on that thread (including a lot of salary cap arguments that I made that are not especially valid anymore since the Giants have changed their cap approach - although they were definitely valid that offseason), but what is clear as day is how refreshed you were about a pregame show.
Maybe if you didn't try to apply the same thoughtless cookie-cutter approach to defending the Giants and actually offered some genuine critical thinking, people would take you more seriously. But for whatever reason, you seem unwilling to do that.
Link - ( New Window )
Are you high right now?
There is literally one post by me on that thread about the pre-game show. I said I enjoyed watching Barkley break down film more than I liked OBJ's sitdown with little wayne.
And what does this have to do with anything?
They are attacking you instead of your argument it should be obvious why.
No, it's not obvious as to why. Who have I attacked personally? Do I argue about the football stuff a lot? Yeah, but very rarely do I get personal with anybody.
Now we're at the point of making up shit to attack me with.
I agree we are all Giants fans, and people can root for whatever they want as they wish, but this feels a lot more like right vs. wrong to me than sharing a common goal.
People accuse me of being overly loyal or a fan boy of any of the above, but I'm not. That should be apparent with how happy I was with the Jones pick. Now I want him to win.
I root for whoever is running the show and wearing the uniform, because their success means the Giants have success. It's not fun for me to root for failure. Sorry.
Britt you mentioned above your criteria for which posters to listen to and which to ignore. We all have criteria for that. Personally, I don't pay much mind to people who bend or overlook reality to make the Giants look better than they are.
"Why not us?" discussions that warp reality and apply different standards to the Giants than other teams make us all dumber. Understanding what is actually happening, and parsing out truth from bullshit...to me that's a better shared common goal than "Gee aren't the Giants awesome?"
Are you reading that anywhere? Because I know I haven't said either of those things in the past three years.
I like to look forward, that's how I operate as a fan. I think Jones needs to step up regardless of our offseason acquisitions, but in the same breath I can also say that he isn't elite so getting him help is a requirement. I also believe that getting him help isn't just a 2021 initiative, we needed more weapons anyway even if we replace Jones after 2021.
I don't see much value in taking hard stance either way - its a game of inches and nuance, no reason I can't view it that was as well as a spectator.
Did I not say that if Gettleman's roster doesn't produce this year he should be fired?
Seems to me you've distorted what my view is. I don't think Daniel Jones and the Giants are awesome, yay. That's the picture you're painting and it's not accurate at all.
Are you reading that anywhere? Because I know I haven't said either of those things in the past three years.
The Giants are doing everything in their power to make Daniel Jones look good to justify the pick.
That is bottom of the barrel stupid shit right there.
Can anyone point me to the team that says, "Fuck our QB, let's get him bad players so we have to draft another QB"
FFS
Stop making shit up.
That's because the Giants have been bad, and Jones has been poor. Can't make a definitive statement to the contrary. What has been offered instead is a lot of excuses and odd comparisons to other situations that don't apply (Eli, Simms, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and a million other quarterbacks).
I don't know about right and wrong, but there is a reality. The reality is this season appears to be Jones's last chance.
Players that play well don't find themselves in last chance situations to prove themselves.
Do you remember watching Simms play his first I don’t know…7 seasons?
People have convenient and downright weird memories around here. Par for the course.
Oh wait, it was a different era so it doesn't count.
Me: Daniel Jones has shown ability in spots and with better help around him hopefully he can elevate his game and prove he can be our guy going forward.
You: Daniel Jones will never be anything more that a career backup in this league and nothing that can happen changes that. (You have actually said this).
Also you: Dave Gettleman and the Giants could go 18-0 next year, win the Superbowl, and he will still have been proven to have done a bad job (you actually also said this).
You don't realize how CRAZY that sounds?
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that is making definitive statements of what can be or cannot be.
That's because the Giants have been bad, and Jones has been poor. Can't make a definitive statement to the contrary. What has been offered instead is a lot of excuses and odd comparisons to other situations that don't apply (Eli, Simms, Josh Allen, Lamar Jackson, and a million other quarterbacks).
I don't know about right and wrong, but there is a reality. The reality is this season appears to be Jones's last chance.
Players that play well don't find themselves in last chance situations to prove themselves.
Don't forget Justin Herbert in the list of comparisons made.
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I think GT wants Jones to succeed, but doesn't think he will. That's a fair take that I don't necessarily disagree with. I think this fall is make or break for Jones.
That said, I had to laugh when GT said he would have drafted Herbert last year @ 4 after DJ's rookie season. That was LOL to me. And again, I respect GT opinions but I thought he was trolling @ that point.
Seriously? If given a mulligan you wouldn't draft Herbert? The Giants would - I'd bet a lot on that.
Dude, what the fuck does this have to do with anything? That draft was one year after Jones. Stop already with this horse shit. You gonna try and put the toothpaste back in the tube on every fucking post? Are you kidding me with this childish take?
If you're going to quote someone, get it right. That kind of thing happens way too often, and bullshit gets propagated as reality.
Which one is the more definitive statement?
That is going to help the offense, which also got much better. I know Daniel can make the throws. Did Daniel Jones' receivers get open at Duke?...No
How much separation did his receivers get last year?
Does that make decision making easy?
See where I am going?
The great Daniel Jones flaw in the now infamous Sy56' scouting report on Daniel Jones.
Decision making
People are going to say, "The light bulb went off for Daniel Jones in 2021 like it did with Josh Allen in 2020"
No, they got Allen, Diggs, and they got Jones actual targets.
I am not saying he is going to be great but it will be transformative. I predict 30+TDs and AY/A to be better than average.
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In comment 15253000 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 15252963 Dr. D said:
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In comment 15252951 Bear vs Shark said:
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They weren't great. As late as late-07, people were still not bought in on Eli. The old meme was "Eli will be fine".
That's my point. The young QB developed and patience was rewarded, right?
And keep in mind, Eli had a MUCH better supporting cast in his first 2-3 years than D. Jones had last yr. It's not even close. Now in '21, Jones finally has a supporting cast that's comparable.
But the NFL as a whole isn't going to be giving QBs that time to develop anymore, which is why these comparisons to Eli and Simms are silly. It's not a NYG thing, it's an NFL thing. Between rookie contracts/options and the confluence of the college and pro games, teams need their first round QB picks to be "the guy" by year three.
Unless changes are made to the CBA, what we saw with the Jets and Darnold is going to become the norm for teams that don't have "the guy"
I acknowledged that it's a different era, but considering the circumstances (e.g., Kevin Gilbride saying '21 "should be considered his 2nd year"), can we give him THIS FUCKING YEAR?
The Jets gave Darnold a 3rd year to prove himself! He failed and the Jets are moving on. That's all anyone's asking for. Jones 3rd year to prove himself.
Darnold hadn't even performed as well as Jones has his first 2 years (avg QBR low 40s vs. nearly 60). And though Darnold did have to deal with a new coach and offense, it wasn't during the fucking pandemic, preventing OTAs, preseason, etc.
So then isn't Darnold a cautionary tale not to give a guy the third year?
An entire season seems a steep price to conduct an experiment on one player hoping he gives you a result he's never displayed on the field.
The Giants are chasing a myth in 2021 with Jones.
Never displayed on the field?
Fucking stop dude.
Worst. Thread. Ever. Bravo.
I didn't know that Jones has never played well. Ever. NEVER.
Fucking trash.
I've said Jones isn't a good starting NFL quarterback. I've laid out numerous reasons for it: stats, scouting reports, video clips. The evidence that he isn't very good is plentiful and easy to find, because he hasn't been. It's not impossible that he'll be good; there's just no reason to believe he will based on what we've seen and what he's done in five years of high level football. The next time he plays really good football for a full season will be the first.
That's definitive, because it's a fact. I didn't have to make that up or put words in someone else's mouth.
The only other recent examples were Haskins and Rosen and much of that had to do with work ethic, attitude, and coach-ability. If Jones was drafted by Washington i'm willing to bet he'd still be their guy right now. Arizona is a bit of a wildcard given the Kingsbury/Murray connection.
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Is anybody else actually saying the Giants "are awesome" right now?
Are you reading that anywhere? Because I know I haven't said either of those things in the past three years.
Nope. typical BBI strawman nonsense. The motivation for the whining about this is obvious. If Daniel Jones has a very good year they look stupid. I have heard stuff as stupid as:
The Giants are doing everything in their power to make Daniel Jones look good to justify the pick.
That is bottom of the barrel stupid shit right there.
Can anyone point me to the team that says, "Fuck our QB, let's get him bad players so we have to draft another QB"
FFS
Extremism at its finest.
Strawman comments go both ways with posters. And how long do you think it would take to find bottom of the barrel stupid comments going the other direction?
Site is to talk Giants and lets fans debate. You aren't going to like what everybody posts so run your own self-filter as needed.
If you're going to quote someone, get it right. That kind of thing happens way too often, and bullshit gets propagated as reality.
You have to admit, that would still be a Mrs. Lincoln kind of perspective.
We have seen so many QBs progress over a longer timeline than 2 years, there's too many to count. Qbs that literally went from bad to heroic legends over a 12 month span. Guys that sucked for 2-3 years then turn out to be good or great. Too many to count. So save me the BS.
You don't know what Jones is or isn't capable of no matter how many times you torpedo a thread with this shit. You might be right. Odds are you WILL be right, but that doesn't mean you know fuck all about Jones or any other young QB in this league. And to sit here proclaiming anything so soon is just ridiculous. It's one thing to have concern or even go on record, but this is just pathetic.
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In comment 15254528 Britt in VA said:
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Is anybody else actually saying the Giants "are awesome" right now?
Are you reading that anywhere? Because I know I haven't said either of those things in the past three years.
Nope. typical BBI strawman nonsense. The motivation for the whining about this is obvious. If Daniel Jones has a very good year they look stupid. I have heard stuff as stupid as:
The Giants are doing everything in their power to make Daniel Jones look good to justify the pick.
That is bottom of the barrel stupid shit right there.
Can anyone point me to the team that says, "Fuck our QB, let's get him bad players so we have to draft another QB"
FFS
Extremism at its finest.
Strawman comments go both ways with posters. And how long do you think it would take to find bottom of the barrel stupid comments going the other direction?
Site is to talk Giants and lets fans debate. You aren't going to like what everybody posts so run your own self-filter as needed.
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I said they could go undefeated and still be under .500 for these four years.
If you're going to quote someone, get it right. That kind of thing happens way too often, and bullshit gets propagated as reality.
You have to admit, that would still be a Mrs. Lincoln kind of perspective.
I didn't say that to say I'd complain about an undefeated season. The point was that the three years have been so bad that an undefeated season wouldn't even get us back to .500. Didn't think that needed explaining.
Would Jones be better with All Pro players at every position? Well, yeah, but is there a player in the NFL who wouldn’t? Has the talent with Jones been great? Well, we know that someone like Tate is long in the tooth and past his prime, sure, but he had a legit NFL career. Is Slayton an all world player? No, but he’s in the NFL. Our line hasn’t been good but even there, we do have AT, a top ten pick, Hernandez a top 2nd round pick. There’s talent on the offense, Barks the number 2, EE a first round pick, Shep, and on and on. Some of you act like Jones is out there playing with a bunch of guys from the neighborhood bar’s flag football league. He’s in the NFL and the guys he’s playing with are all among the very best football players in the country.
For the old timers, remember when we used to talk about LT in his first couple of years and how all he needed was a better defensive line and a better defensive backfield and full off season to get ready and he needed a few good linebackers to play with? Yeah, me neither. Great players make the players around them great. It’s not the other way around.
Now if Jones were taken in the third round we’d all be a lot more forgiving of his heretofore lack of greatness. But Jones was the 6th overall pick - there shouldn’t be a debate at this point with the sixth overall pick. Enough about the talent around him, it’s time for this guy to be the person on the Giants who is making the players around him better. It’s time to start winning some football games.
Same 5 posters? Echo chamber? Personal attacks?
You have got to be kidding. Look at this very thread and how easily I can flip those sad songs of yours around 180 degrees as to what occurs.
Counterpoint all you want. That's actually the behavior your seeing from everybody you may be losing patience with...
Fucking childish. That's what children do. You should be banned from a thread after doing this.
Fucking childish. That's what children do. You should be banned from a thread after doing this.
Reading comprehension.
Jones has never played a good full season of football in five years of college and pros.
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when people make shit up to prove something. Jones has never played well in the NFL? Never? He never threw four-five TD passes in a game? That win against Philly didn't happen last year? He didn't deliver a perfect dime to Engram in the first Philly game and play well enough that day? He didn't play well against Dallas week 17 in 21?
Fucking childish. That's what children do. You should be banned from a thread after doing this.
Reading comprehension.
Jones has never played a good full season of football in five years of college and pros.
Jones had a pretty good last season at Duke. 22 TD's and 9 INT's with 350 yards rushing and 3 TD's.
But even then, players on bad teams are going to have that kind of perception. You could say the exact same thing about Josh Allen prior to last year.
Surprisingly, you didn't.
Are you reading that anywhere? Because I know I haven't said either of those things in the past three years.
As we speak, some guy named Grizz is touting the roster is so strong and deep right now that we will be cutting nice players at LB, WR and CB; and is putting the Giants into a deep playoff run.
I think that sounds pretty "awesome"!
I've said Jones isn't a good starting NFL quarterback. I've laid out numerous reasons for it: stats, scouting reports, video clips. The evidence that he isn't very good is plentiful and easy to find, because he hasn't been. It's not impossible that he'll be good; there's just no reason to believe he will based on what we've seen and what he's done in five years of high level football. The next time he plays really good football for a full season will be the first.
That's definitive, because it's a fact. I didn't have to make that up or put words in someone else's mouth.
It's funny when Britt latches onto a single sentence.
If you try to do the same thing to him, he accuses you of being high.
Every team had to deal with Covid is too simple. Find an actual person that played QB in the NFL and ask them how easy it is for a second year QB to deal with a completely new offense and coach.
We know the answer right?
Then ask, take away his starting RB in week 2, and throw in an almost entirely new OL.
Harder.
OK, now ask that QB about doing THAT during covid with less practice than ever and remote learning that you had never experienced before.
Maybe DJ bombs, but stop the insanity, let this year play out and for heaven's sake get in the kid's corner for a minute or two.
Every team had to deal with Covid is too simple. Find an actual person that played QB in the NFL and ask them how easy it is for a second year QB to deal with a completely new offense and coach.
We know the answer right?
Then ask, take away his starting RB in week 2, and throw in an almost entirely new OL.
Harder.
OK, now ask that QB about doing THAT during covid with less practice than ever and remote learning that you had never experienced before.
Maybe DJ bombs, but stop the insanity, let this year play out and for heaven's sake get in the kid's corner for a minute or two.
I've said this before and I'll keep saying it: we can reasonably deduce that EITHER 2020 OR 2019 is going to ultimately be viewed as an outlier for DJ.
We just don't know which yet.
Fucking childish. That's what children do. You should be banned from a thread after doing this.
You're the only one throwing a tantrum djm...
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Even if we have another pandemic it will handled much better. I completely throw out 2020 for my Jones evaluation. What happened in 2020 was out this world. My take on Jones is based on growth over 2019. If you want to hold him to the fire for 2020. Have at it.
Every team had to deal with Covid is too simple. Find an actual person that played QB in the NFL and ask them how easy it is for a second year QB to deal with a completely new offense and coach.
We know the answer right?
Then ask, take away his starting RB in week 2, and throw in an almost entirely new OL.
Harder.
OK, now ask that QB about doing THAT during covid with less practice than ever and remote learning that you had never experienced before.
Maybe DJ bombs, but stop the insanity, let this year play out and for heaven's sake get in the kid's corner for a minute or two.
I've said this before and I'll keep saying it: we can reasonably deduce that EITHER 2020 OR 2019 is going to ultimately be viewed as an outlier for DJ.
We just don't know which yet.
Would Jones be better with All Pro players at every position? Well, yeah, but is there a player in the NFL who wouldn’t? Has the talent with Jones been great? Well, we know that someone like Tate is long in the tooth and past his prime, sure, but he had a legit NFL career. Is Slayton an all world player? No, but he’s in the NFL. Our line hasn’t been good but even there, we do have AT, a top ten pick, Hernandez a top 2nd round pick. There’s talent on the offense, Barks the number 2, EE a first round pick, Shep, and on and on. Some of you act like Jones is out there playing with a bunch of guys from the neighborhood bar’s flag football league. He’s in the NFL and the guys he’s playing with are all among the very best football players in the country.
For the old timers, remember when we used to talk about LT in his first couple of years and how all he needed was a better defensive line and a better defensive backfield and full off season to get ready and he needed a few good linebackers to play with? Yeah, me neither. Great players make the players around them great. It’s not the other way around.
Now if Jones were taken in the third round we’d all be a lot more forgiving of his heretofore lack of greatness. But Jones was the 6th overall pick - there shouldn’t be a debate at this point with the sixth overall pick. Enough about the talent around him, it’s time for this guy to be the person on the Giants who is making the players around him better. It’s time to start winning some football games.
Good write-up. I've been over a lot of that real estate myself.
It goes back to this - expectations. There is a loud, large faction on this board who don't think Jones should be a difference maker. He's just one piece of the puzzle and he's the one who needs to be dependent on others, not the other way around. For them, it doesn't matter if Jones was drafted #6 or in the 6th round. He's just 1/11th of the offense...
Would Jones be better with All Pro players at every position? Well, yeah, but is there a player in the NFL who wouldn’t? Has the talent with Jones been great? Well, we know that someone like Tate is long in the tooth and past his prime, sure, but he had a legit NFL career. Is Slayton an all world player? No, but he’s in the NFL. Our line hasn’t been good but even there, we do have AT, a top ten pick, Hernandez a top 2nd round pick. There’s talent on the offense, Barks the number 2, EE a first round pick, Shep, and on and on. Some of you act like Jones is out there playing with a bunch of guys from the neighborhood bar’s flag football league. He’s in the NFL and the guys he’s playing with are all among the very best football players in the country.
For the old timers, remember when we used to talk about LT in his first couple of years and how all he needed was a better defensive line and a better defensive backfield and full off season to get ready and he needed a few good linebackers to play with? Yeah, me neither. Great players make the players around them great. It’s not the other way around.
Now if Jones were taken in the third round we’d all be a lot more forgiving of his heretofore lack of greatness. But Jones was the 6th overall pick - there shouldn’t be a debate at this point with the sixth overall pick. Enough about the talent around him, it’s time for this guy to be the person on the Giants who is making the players around him better. It’s time to start winning some football games.
Great post. This is the point. Top ten drafted players lift the team around them, not vice versa. The issue here is that many of us hated the pick to begin with and the constant drumbeat that "we have to wait before we can have a learned opinion on the matter" is insufferable. I knew Shurmur was a bad hire eight seconds into his first press conference. And then I had to suffer thru two years of listening to his moronic points of view and the fans who defended him.
For many of us, we are now less than a year and counting from now until the end of the Daniel Jones era. Or so we hope. The reason for the debate is not whether he will be good or not. If he leads us to the playoffs this year it will be a dream come true and I will be the first to support him in getting extended. The debate is whether the Giants will continue to support him if he doesn't lead us to the playoffs and extend him based on some non-performance criteria like the kid's great character or the progress that he has made. And the excuse that I can see coming now is blaming the OL.
If the Giants don't make the playoffs, Gettleman should be fired and the Daniel Jones era should be over.
Every team had to deal with Covid is too simple. Find an actual person that played QB in the NFL and ask them how easy it is for a second year QB to deal with a completely new offense and coach.
We know the answer right?
Then ask, take away his starting RB in week 2, and throw in an almost entirely new OL.
Harder.
OK, now ask that QB about doing THAT during covid with less practice than ever and remote learning that you had never experienced before.
Maybe DJ bombs, but stop the insanity, let this year play out and for heaven's sake get in the kid's corner for a minute or two.
Some posters can separate rooting for the Giants to win and having cold hard opinions on players/coaches/GMs. Some cannot.
It's not insanity to do either.
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I haven't said "nothing that can happen can change this". Why make shit up?
I've said Jones isn't a good starting NFL quarterback. I've laid out numerous reasons for it: stats, scouting reports, video clips. The evidence that he isn't very good is plentiful and easy to find, because he hasn't been. It's not impossible that he'll be good; there's just no reason to believe he will based on what we've seen and what he's done in five years of high level football. The next time he plays really good football for a full season will be the first.
That's definitive, because it's a fact. I didn't have to make that up or put words in someone else's mouth.
It's funny when Britt latches onto a single sentence.
If you try to do the same thing to him, he accuses you of being high.
You were fucking high if you think any of your posts about me on this thread were actually true after you dug up the thread in question. They’re all above for anybody to read.
He isn't an elite QB, he needs help.
Unless our offensive line gets besieged with injuries, based on the talent we added, I expect at least a top 12 offense next year by year's end. Legit number 1 WR finally with some good depth, decent TE group, stud RB with decent backup(I think a lot more of Booker than most here apparently), and a competent OL that can run block, but doesn't pass block well. Would anyone be pounding the table to sign him to a second contract if he's Jacoby Brisset?
People are going to be very, very surprised on what the offense looks next year with Saquon coming back. It's going to force teams into man, which we now have WRs that get open, and because we have talent on outside, DJ is going to gash teams in pass game with long runs probably once or twice a game.