I know this has been discussed to death on this forum, but I wanted to contribute my two cents and not in a thread that has already devolved. I don't think it is reasonable to have any certainty with Daniel Jones at this point either yea or nay. But there are some things on each side of balance sheet.
Pluses:
1). smart, hard working, plus athlete. Wants to play.
2). Enough of an arm. Not great, but enough. Was worried about the 10-15 yard outs, which are pick sixes with a marginal arm, but so far no problem.
3). After 26 starts, substantively better than Simms or Eli at similar point. Didn't go back and check stats, although I expect this is still true. Just the eye test. And by the eye test he is a lot better at this point.
Minuses:
1). Turnovers - got better in year 2, but still a concern.
2). Awareness? - this is the big one for me. Seems to lack both pocket awareness and field awareness, the first as to where the rush is and the second as to where to attack the defense. You can't be bad at both of these and be a competent NFL quarterback. Impossible to tell how much of this is insoluble and how much is bad OL plus new offense.
For me the tale of the tape will be about his awareness. I don't think this can be taught (although I don't know I never had it in any sport). If he can control that it improves turnovers and sacks. Great OL play can help hide this problem on a short term basis, but not indefinitely.
We all hope he can good enough or better. We should all be aware that he may not be.
Haven't seen one of those around in forever.
But back to processing I do see alot of ball patting and feet shuffle once his first read isn't there. Nor do i feel like he's moving safeties with his eyes.
Pros, hes a great athlete and throws a good, catchable (i'm being serious) ball.
I think his ceiling is Tannehill-ish, who by the way I think has become a very good quarterback.
That said I expect this to be a pretty good year from him. We know he will be better, the question is, will it be enough improvement to know that he's "the guy" or will we be trading those 2 first rounders for a QB in next year's draft.
That said, those issues may be misidentifying a guy trying to do too much to make plays succeed as ‘awareness’.
Hopefully our OC and staff can develop routes to create receivers open in 2.5 seconds so the ball is out of his hands before he gets hit, and until we build a strong OL.
Comparing Jones to Eli or Simms is not fair. Jones was playing in a vastly different offensive college game.
Yep that makes sense.
Haven't seen one of those around in forever.
lol. My exact thought.
I don't know if I've really seen DJ flash like Eli did against Denver in 05 except maybe his first start against the Bucs.
Comparing Jones to Eli or Simms is not fair. Jones was playing in a vastly different offensive college game.
Comparing Jones to Eli or Simms is not fair. Jones was playing in a vastly different offensive college game.
Comparing Jones to Eli in year two is incredibly unfair to Jones. Look at who Eli had around him in 2005: Barber, Toomer, Burress, Shockey, Pettigout, Diehl, O'Hara, Snee and McKenzie. That's basically the SB team. Jones had a mix at RB, Shepard, Slayton, Tate, Engram, Andrews (rookie with no preseason games), Hernandez, Gates (first time at center), Zeitler, Fleming.
Even in their rookie years, when Manning started 7 games, he had Barber, Toomer, Hilliard, Shockey, Pettigout, Whittle, O'Hare, Snee and Diehl. And Jones was remarkably better in his rookie year, in virtually every stat but fumbles, with Eli's rating at 55 and Jones' at 87.
Then consider Manning had a QB rating of 75.9 in his second year, while Jones' was 80.4. Imagine what Jones might have done this past year with the lineup Eli played with in 2005.
I don't know what Jones will turn out to be, but to say he hasn't shown anything yet is just wrong.
Haven't seen one of those around in forever.
Someone takes the time to put together a well thought out post and this is how you respond? Agree, disagree, contribute or ignore. Too much of this tuff goes on - sorry to single you out as many others do it.
While fair to say Eli had a better team around him the NFL was quite different. CB's were still able to be much more physical, DL/LB's could hit the QB more often without fear of penalties like today, NFL offenses were not as diverse, etc.
I will tell you two big differences between the two amongst many. You knew early on Eli was not gonna fold in a big moment and he showed no fear in letting the ball rip.
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Thank goodness.
Haven't seen one of those around in forever.
Someone takes the time to put together a well thought out post and this is how you respond? Agree, disagree, contribute or ignore. Too much of this tuff goes on - sorry to single you out as many others do it.
I haven't given up on him yet, but 2021 is make or break. No more excuses.
Daniel Jones improves this year or the Giants have to look to move on.
The average Giant fan has some perspective and does not have unreasonable expectations
While fair to say Eli had a better team around him the NFL was quite different. CB's were still able to be much more physical, DL/LB's could hit the QB more often without fear of penalties like today, NFL offenses were not as diverse, etc.
I will tell you two big differences between the two amongst many. You knew early on Eli was not gonna fold in a big moment and he showed no fear in letting the ball rip.
good points
I actually think Jones throws fairly well on the move - especially to his strong side - and hope to see more of those baked into the offense this year.
Minuses need to include something on speeding up processing time as part of awareness. Also need to include in here making plays/producing points at higher rate. Extending plays in red zone.
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In comment 15253521 HMunster said:
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Thank goodness.
Haven't seen one of those around in forever.
Someone takes the time to put together a well thought out post and this is how you respond? Agree, disagree, contribute or ignore. Too much of this tuff goes on - sorry to single you out as many others do it.
LOL Exactly what I was trying to say to you! Excellent GIF!
I also agree with the current conventional wisdom that it's highly preferable to have an athletic QB who can keep plays alive on 3rd down and especially in the RZ. Check. We've seen that since the 4th and 5 in TB 2 years ago.
however mixed the results have been those are the 2 undeniable talents Jones has that would keep me invested in giving him reps. Ball security can improve, it has already, and Jones' decision making problems have most often been because he was overaggressive trying to make plays. I'd rather that than a check down artist. Or a frustratingly inconsistent thrower. I feel like at minimum he has the tools of Alex Smith with a more aggressive willingness to throw the ball downfield.
last thing - the stat I always go back to with Jones is 13 tds and 0 ints in the red zone his rookie year. Big plays come and go, executing in the RZ is among the most important qualities a QB can have. His RZ numbers at Duke were very good as well.
Whether it’s protection, surrounding talent, injury, or consistency — he hasn’t put together the stretches of games to feel confident he’s a given to be part of the solution.
I won’t be surprised if by the end of the year next year, the conclusion is “duh” he just needed to stay healthy and have better WRs. I also won’t be surprised if the Giants are drafting his replacement.
Whether it’s protection, surrounding talent, injury, or consistency — he hasn’t put together the stretches of games to feel confident he’s a given to be part of the solution.
I won’t be surprised if by the end of the year next year, the conclusion is “duh” he just needed to stay healthy and have better WRs. I also won’t be surprised if the Giants are drafting his replacement.
Yup, his security improvements came at the expense of production. You need to be able to stand out there and be aware of everything, while the sheetstorm is going on all around you, and be able to get out of that stripsack right before it happens.
Jones appears to show almost ZERO escapability when he is concentrating on something else (like throwing). Now was he doing it even though he was aware the rush was coming, just to make plays, or was he truly unaware. My gut tells me it was the second and you may make the playoffs, but you are not getting a SB messing up like that, even once a game.
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