If both were in this past draft, who would be drafted first ? Random I know, but with Pitts being the highest drafted TE "Evah", just had me pondering....
without a doubt. If we’re talking pure talent, not the head case he became. He was an excellent receiver and blocker. He was also tough and had swagger.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
Agree with you about Shockey. But I read the OP’s post as who would you pick entering the draft as rookies. Not knowing some of the issues Shockey would have a few years in.
I would probably go with Shockey because he was a better blocker who was willing to work hard there. Pitts hasn’t displayed that blocking ability and there are some who don’t think he will ever be average at it.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
Agree with you about Shockey. But I read the OP’s post as who would you pick entering the draft as rookies. Not knowing some of the issues Shockey would have a few years in.
Correct, this would be rookie prospect Shockey, vice later head-case nutjob Shockey
Pitts was drafted #4 on the theory that he can do most of what a very good WR can do, plus some of what a TE should do. Shockey was a true, two-way TE, but we wasn’t outrunning DBs - at least not after the HoF Game his rookie year.
I wish shockey became more. He could have been legendary.
I think Coughlin's offense didn't do him any favors. He was mostly blocking like a traditional TE while Fassel's system had him basically as an extra WR
without a doubt. If we’re talking pure talent, not the head case he became. He was an excellent receiver and blocker. He was also tough and had swagger.
His rookie year when he totally plowed over one of the Texans near the sidelines and kept going like it didn't even slow him down. That was one of my fav plays of all time despite it just being preseason
He was the Babe Ruth of football - Give no quarter, take none.
He had it all - 260 pound body running a 4.6 forty, with a raging bull attitude. Tom Coughlin loved him despite the rocks in Jeremy's head.
I've been a pro football fan for 63 years; I've never seen a non lineman player more hated by his opponents (and some of his team-mates) more than him.
I'm not even a big Pitts fan, but there was all this talk about him as a "unicorn." Personnel evaluators saying they'd never had a TE test like him, ever. Pitts as the first non-QB taken in the 2021 draft, which was probably thin but had a solid top 10.
As good a prospect as Shockey was, he didn't make anyone rethink their approach to the draft. Shockey was taken 14th overall — high for a TE, but nothing like Pitts. 11 non-QBs were taken ahead of him, and I don't think that they were all blue-chippers, even at the time. The only WR taken ahead of him was Donte Stallworth (!) at #13
If Pitts had been in the 2002 draft, there probably would have been even more concern about him being a "tweener" and the scarcity of tape showng him excelling as a blocker. In NFL offenses of 20 years ago, that would have been a big concern. I think if Pitts wasn't taken earlier,, and both Shockey and Pitts were on the board at #13, Pitts would have gone #13 to Pittsburgh or #14 to the Giants.
I don't think Young and Parcells would have taken Pitts over Shockey, but Fassel and Accorsi probably would have. Shockey was a Parcells kind of player — from the neck down, anyway.
If Shockey had been in the 2021 draft there is zero chance he would be a taken ahead of Pitts. We just saw how Pitts was valued; he was a top-5 pick. Shockey was a very good conventional tight end and would have been picked high for a conventional tight end, just as he was in 2002 — but not as high as Pitts. Probably mid-1st round. Nowadays, his blocking probably counts for a little less than it did 19 years ago.
You might like Shockey, you might have enjoyed Shockey, but comparing prospect to prospect, I don't think they were even close.
I think Shockey's (disappointing) career may still end up exceeding Pitts' career. But we won't know that for 5-7 years.
You'd never confuse Shockey as a WR even if you could split him out. Pitts can legit play either spot. It's funny ppl are still selling this kid short.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
Saints did just fine with Shockey. Why?
We don't know whether Shockey's injury was a blessing in disguise. We never will. I wouldn't change a thing about that glorious 07-08 run, but I think it's unfair to label Shockey as some kind of destroyer of good team play. Matter of fact I think it's a ridiculous take but also quite common. There doesn't have to be a villain.
The same Shockey played on a Giants team that made the playoffs 4-6 seasons. Doesn't sound like a team cancer to me.
He's taller than Shockey, and is a better athlete. Shockey had good straight line speed, but even there, Pitts ran .2 seconds faster (4.44 v 4.64). Pitts also had a 10'9 broad jump, and a 41" vertical. Shockey didn't test in those, but no way does he come close.
Pitts is taller, makes contested catches better, and has more consistent hands. Shockey may have a slight advantage in blocking, but keep in mind that he was criticized for that at Miami as well.
without a doubt. If we’re talking pure talent, not the head case he became. He was an excellent receiver and blocker. He was also tough and had swagger.
I think you are overrating Shockey's "pure talent". Yes, he ran fast for a guy his size, but Pitts is significantly faster, and far more athletic. His broad and vertical were insane.
But show me 5 highlights where he made a relatively difficult extended catch over his head, stayed on his feet, and took it to the house.
He’d infuriate me with his inability to make a great catch and stay on his feet, the Gronk comparisons should end there since Gronk made those catches and then would take DBs on a ride consistently unless they went low.
Pitts is a better athlete and a more natural catcher. He’s not the blocker Shockey was due to tenacity/size but Shockey also wasn’t some amazing blocker like Bavaro.
Pitts is more Kellen Winslow + speed/skills without the crazy. He’d be taken first out of the two unless one team loaded with WRs particularly liked Shockey.
Just watched an 11 minute Shockey compilation and he did that 0 times. Dude could not stay on his feet. That Boss catch in the Super Bowl absolutely does not happen with Shockey in there.
Over the head difficult catches might have been too much
Just difficult catches away from the body where he stayed on his feet is better since that happens more often. And instead of “to the house” make it “anywhere”, dude fell so damn much on down the field throws that it was a joke. He was an exciting Giants figure but making him out to be some future legend is silly. He was a guy who maybe possibly could’ve been Jason Witten tier if he wasn’t an idiot but Witten was also a more consistent blocker and player by miles. Eli wins 0 rings with Shockey here imo.
Eye opening rookie season and loved his fire on the field for the most part. But Giants fans really overrate him in hindsight.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
Agree with you about Shockey. But I read the OP’s post as who would you pick entering the draft as rookies. Not knowing some of the issues Shockey would have a few years in.
Quote:
Pitts.
I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
Agree with you about Shockey. But I read the OP’s post as who would you pick entering the draft as rookies. Not knowing some of the issues Shockey would have a few years in.
Correct, this would be rookie prospect Shockey, vice later head-case nutjob Shockey
Bottom line: Pitts gets picked before Shockey.
I think Coughlin's offense didn't do him any favors. He was mostly blocking like a traditional TE while Fassel's system had him basically as an extra WR
His rookie year when he totally plowed over one of the Texans near the sidelines and kept going like it didn't even slow him down. That was one of my fav plays of all time despite it just being preseason
He was the Babe Ruth of football - Give no quarter, take none.
He had it all - 260 pound body running a 4.6 forty, with a raging bull attitude. Tom Coughlin loved him despite the rocks in Jeremy's head.
I've been a pro football fan for 63 years; I've never seen a non lineman player more hated by his opponents (and some of his team-mates) more than him.
As good a prospect as Shockey was, he didn't make anyone rethink their approach to the draft. Shockey was taken 14th overall — high for a TE, but nothing like Pitts. 11 non-QBs were taken ahead of him, and I don't think that they were all blue-chippers, even at the time. The only WR taken ahead of him was Donte Stallworth (!) at #13
If Pitts had been in the 2002 draft, there probably would have been even more concern about him being a "tweener" and the scarcity of tape showng him excelling as a blocker. In NFL offenses of 20 years ago, that would have been a big concern. I think if Pitts wasn't taken earlier,, and both Shockey and Pitts were on the board at #13, Pitts would have gone #13 to Pittsburgh or #14 to the Giants.
I don't think Young and Parcells would have taken Pitts over Shockey, but Fassel and Accorsi probably would have. Shockey was a Parcells kind of player — from the neck down, anyway.
If Shockey had been in the 2021 draft there is zero chance he would be a taken ahead of Pitts. We just saw how Pitts was valued; he was a top-5 pick. Shockey was a very good conventional tight end and would have been picked high for a conventional tight end, just as he was in 2002 — but not as high as Pitts. Probably mid-1st round. Nowadays, his blocking probably counts for a little less than it did 19 years ago.
You might like Shockey, you might have enjoyed Shockey, but comparing prospect to prospect, I don't think they were even close.
I think Shockey's (disappointing) career may still end up exceeding Pitts' career. But we won't know that for 5-7 years.
You'd never confuse Shockey as a WR even if you could split him out. Pitts can legit play either spot. It's funny ppl are still selling this kid short.
Even in his own draft, Shockey was drafted 14th and was the 12th non-QB taken. Pitts was the first non-QB taken in this draft.
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I loved JS, but we don't win it all in '07 if he doesn't get injured IMO. He was too much of a headcase. And it's hard to believe his apex was his rookie season. He was never that good or dominant again, though he had his moments here & there. I'm still pissed he dropped that TD vs. SF that would have all but won that game.
Saints did just fine with Shockey. Why?
We don't know whether Shockey's injury was a blessing in disguise. We never will. I wouldn't change a thing about that glorious 07-08 run, but I think it's unfair to label Shockey as some kind of destroyer of good team play. Matter of fact I think it's a ridiculous take but also quite common. There doesn't have to be a villain.
The same Shockey played on a Giants team that made the playoffs 4-6 seasons. Doesn't sound like a team cancer to me.
Pitts is taller, makes contested catches better, and has more consistent hands. Shockey may have a slight advantage in blocking, but keep in mind that he was criticized for that at Miami as well.
It's Pitts, and it's not that close.
I think you are overrating Shockey's "pure talent". Yes, he ran fast for a guy his size, but Pitts is significantly faster, and far more athletic. His broad and vertical were insane.
He’d infuriate me with his inability to make a great catch and stay on his feet, the Gronk comparisons should end there since Gronk made those catches and then would take DBs on a ride consistently unless they went low.
Pitts is a better athlete and a more natural catcher. He’s not the blocker Shockey was due to tenacity/size but Shockey also wasn’t some amazing blocker like Bavaro.
Pitts is more Kellen Winslow + speed/skills without the crazy. He’d be taken first out of the two unless one team loaded with WRs particularly liked Shockey.
Eye opening rookie season and loved his fire on the field for the most part. But Giants fans really overrate him in hindsight.