There have been so many moves both in free agency and the Draft to talk about that I kind of feel like Golladay has gotten lost in the shuffle.
He is the most important addition the team has made this offseason and will change the entire offense by just his presence.
Stafford then had another full offseason, training camp, and preseason leading into that third campaign.
The benefit of being around the team, even while injured and the importance of the offseason, training camp, and preseason are often marginalized.
Point is whether he played three regular season games or not, it’s not correct to just skip year 2 and act like year 3 was his second season.
So maybe rather than Hernandez actually losing his job, maybe it was an issue of planning for the future. Coaches knew what they had in Hernandez and wanted to see what they have in Lemieux.
Lost time due to Covid and subsequent recovery from same just added to the matter.
We needed a break... ;)
I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.
Here we go again.............
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talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.
We needed a break... ;)
I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.
Here we go again.............
Agreed, the love for Stafford is funny to me. He showed some flashes early in his career that he may be a good QB with a bunch of comeback victories, etc. But at the end of the day he’s a QB that puts up decent stats but hasn’t won anything. And he’s had some nice weapons in Calvin Johnson, Burleson, Marvin Jones, Golladay. We’ll see how he does in LA this year.
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Here's his rookie stats: 13 TD, 20 INTs, 37.1 QBR
He missed most of his 2nd year due to shoulder injury and finished season 1-2, with a QBR of 50 (D. Jones had QBR of 61.5 last yr).
What the hell was wrong with them? (they could've had about 7 QBs by now!)
/s
Here are Stafford's real second year stats:
5K+ passing yards, 64% completion, 41TDs/16INTs (2.56 ratio), 7.6 YPA, 7.7 AYA, QBR 60+, 4 GWDs.
Can we agree those are pretty damn good?
If you're going to play that game, we haven't seen D. Jones "real second year stats" yet (some of us can't wait to see what he can do with the awesome new weapons. Must suck to not look forward to that).
Remember, Kevin Gilbride said the upcoming season should be considered D. Jones 2nd. I don't know if JJ has exactly said that, but he obviously expects him to take a big leap forward (or else they would've done something to replace him).
Are some excuses better than others? In D. Jones case, you have a long list of shit that was completely out of his control. In Stafford's case, you had an injury to his throwing shoulder.
That may have been out of Stafford's control too, but if anything, a season ending injury to a QBs throwing shoulder, after a poor rookie season, should be better justification for cutting bait, right? I know, not for you.
It doesn't matter what anyone says. Jones sucks and doesn't deserve his "real second season".
The real point about Stafford's leap forward is that it actually happened in his THIRD year. This is D. Jones THIRD year. If he takes the leap that others, including Stafford have taken, most of us will be very happy.
If you're going to play that game, we haven't seen D. Jones "real second year stats" yet (some of us can't wait to see what he can do with the awesome new weapons. Must suck to not look forward to that).
Remember, Kevin Gilbride said the upcoming season should be considered D. Jones 2nd. I don't know if JJ has exactly said that, but he obviously expects him to take a big leap forward (or else they would've done something to replace him).
Are some excuses better than others? In D. Jones case, you have a long list of shit that was completely out of his control. In Stafford's case, you had an injury to his throwing shoulder.
That may have been out of Stafford's control too, but if anything, a season ending injury to a QBs throwing shoulder, after a poor rookie season, should be better justification for cutting bait, right? I know, not for you.
It doesn't matter what anyone says. Jones sucks and doesn't deserve his "real second season".
The real point about Stafford's leap forward is that it actually happened in his THIRD year. This is D. Jones THIRD year. If he takes the leap that others, including Stafford have taken, most of us will be very happy.
With all due respect, Stafford, again, only had 13 starts before he really crushed it. Maybe it was technically his third year by virtue of his contract, but by starts he was much further along than Jones.
The point I was making is that Stafford, purely based on throwing ability, is in a different universe than Jones and can make - and create - more throws than Jones. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how KG adapts to that.
But if you want to keep letting your imagination run away thinking Jones is on the same level as Stafford than dream away...
Agreed, the love for Stafford is funny to me. He showed some flashes early in his career that he may be a good QB with a bunch of comeback victories, etc. But at the end of the day he’s a QB that puts up decent stats but hasn’t won anything. And he’s had some nice weapons in Calvin Johnson, Burleson, Marvin Jones, Golladay. We’ll see how he does in LA this year.
In Stafford's defense, he has played in Detroit. I wouldn't call that the most stable place in the NFL.
I do agree, however, to an extent, he has come up a bit short and a change of scenery was needed...
What excuses are you referring to here?
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Agreed, the love for Stafford is funny to me. He showed some flashes early in his career that he may be a good QB with a bunch of comeback victories, etc. But at the end of the day he’s a QB that puts up decent stats but hasn’t won anything. And he’s had some nice weapons in Calvin Johnson, Burleson, Marvin Jones, Golladay. We’ll see how he does in LA this year.
In Stafford's defense, he has played in Detroit. I wouldn't call that the most stable place in the NFL.
I do agree, however, to an extent, he has come up a bit short and a change of scenery was needed...
Rodgers is interesting to me. Not in defense of Jones but just in terms of the giants overall.
His age is so far out of tune with the rest of the lineup, that you'd have to be very deep into your investigation and confidence of his shelf-life (which includes more than the physicalness but also other extracurricular draws on his life). You would definitely be mortgaging the future to get him (especially when you think of not only draft picks but who you have to jettison in salary). You would almost need a SB guarantee in the next year or two; would the rest of the team be able to carry that? And then, after that, you're pretty much done for a decade.
True, but even you must admit Detroit got absolutely screwed a few years ago in the playoff loss in Dallas. That was a tragic display by those refs...
What does that mean? Are we talking about pure Arm strength? Does that make you an "Elite Thrower" ?
I think an elite thrower would also include timing, touch, and placement too. In that regard I never fully understood the Stafford love. He has played with some GREAT receivers who can mask a lot of QB errors.
So my argument just might be a semantic one.
Back to the topic of this thread - I am super excited to see Golladay with Daniel Jones and it is great he will give us barometer as fans to judge Daniel Jones.
I will use the Culpepper example again - but great weapons make some predestination QB look great. I think DJ is better than Culpepper and I expect his numbers to increase with his new weapons.
Golladay will not only improve DJ for their connection, but he should improve DJ with others as well. He will pull double teams, leaving space for others. This should also give the benefit to DJ to read the field better which is something he needs to improve on this year.
DJ is a pre-snap read QB which Golladay will be there to make the contested catch while Toney may give Daniel the added boost he needs post read when Safeties need to make quicker decisions when in coverage than sit back like last year when player failed to get separation quickly.
There is a "delta between the two" not a difference between the two players.
I'm puzzled... are they in Mississippi? At an airport? In a sorority house?
I also love a world where Jones record is what it is and excuses are a losers lament while Matthew stafford's record is a function of the dysfunction in Detroit, not his own weaknesses.
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There is a "delta between the two" not a difference between the two players.
I'm puzzled... are they in Mississippi? At an airport? In a sorority house?
NICE
In any case, Golladay and Barkley on the field together change the Giants fundamentally. No more stacking the box. And no more dropping everyone into coverage. Now you have to play the Giants even up. That is going to completely change the game for the Giants over what has happened during the last two years.
The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.
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as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft
The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.
How much would Detroit have gotten for Stafford after his 2nd season (and rookie season that was much worse than that of D. Jones)? Possibly less than the Giants would've gotten for D. Jones after his 2nd.
The Lions wisely gave Stafford a THIRD season to prove himself. And he did. Can we please just fucking do the same for Jones?
I also love a world where Jones record is what it is and excuses are a losers lament while Matthew stafford's record is a function of the dysfunction in Detroit, not his own weaknesses.
How about in 2013 when all the Lions had to do was beat the Giants who's best offensive weapon at the time was Jerrell Jernigan and lost.
I know every conversation comes back to Jones, but as long as the OL performs on the improved level they were showing late in the season, we will really find out of DJ is the guy or not. Most of the excuses seem to be gone
I also love a world where Jones record is what it is and excuses are a losers lament while Matthew stafford's record is a function of the dysfunction in Detroit, not his own weaknesses.
Absolutely correct. It amazes me that Eli took a ton of shit on this very board about his record even w two freaking SB MVPs. And DJ takes a ton of shit for his record. He’s only been at it for two years. Stafford? 12 years.
But Stafford, 20 games below 500 and not one PO win.
Sometimes you just got to shake your head.
How much would Detroit have gotten for Stafford after his 2nd season (and rookie season that was much worse than that of D. Jones)? Possibly less than the Giants would've gotten for D. Jones after his 2nd.
The Lions wisely gave Stafford a THIRD season to prove himself. And he did. Can we please just fucking do the same for Jones?
Just to round this out, the economics were different, too, with Stafford. His first contract was for 6yrs/$72M.
I still hold arm talent to be a very important trait of a QB. WFT for example has the chance to be a very good defense with a defensive minded HC. They will scheme and play to make Jones stick those long throws that need to be thrown with velocity on a line. Jones will need to make them.
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In comment 15254883 LeonBright45 said:
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as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft
The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.
How much would Detroit have gotten for Stafford after his 2nd season (and rookie season that was much worse than that of D. Jones)? Possibly less than the Giants would've gotten for D. Jones after his 2nd.
The Lions wisely gave Stafford a THIRD season to prove himself. And he did. Can we please just fucking do the same for Jones?
If Jones has the same third year as Stafford there will be dancing in the streets... But there was near universal clarity that Stafford was a good quarterback despite his slow start and he would have still had greater trade value than Jones at the same point in his career...
The sheer whiff of any excuse making for Jones sends you and the usual suspects into a frenzy, and yet, whenever another player is discussed, you find narratives and ways to make excuses, the same stuff you always tell posters NOT to do about the Giants
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as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft
The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.
Comparing what Stafford would get in his prime to Jones in his second year. Brilliant.
The sheer whiff of any excuse making for Jones sends you and the usual suspects into a frenzy, and yet, whenever another player is discussed, you find narratives and ways to make excuses, the same stuff you always tell posters NOT to do about the Giants
Narratives. These buzzwords are just beautiful.
Let's address the two incidents you raised for Stafford...
On the third year issue, there is no excuse. It's accurately describing the circumstance. Stafford got hurt his second year and only played three games (shoulder). At that point, he had 13 starts. Right? So while he was technically into his third season by contract, his second year was basically a wash out. Can we agree on that? Whereas Jones had 26 starts by the end of his second year...
If what happened to the Lions and Stafford, in Dallas for that 2015 playoff game, happened to the Giants in a playoff game this site would be set on fire. And rightfully so. That was a horrendous call. Even my Fat Friend in Charlotte, I believe, would agree with this take...
I think that is an apt description of Stafford. And I never said he was a great QB. I said he had elite arm talent.
Ironically, this type of post seems to your entire contribution as well...
Many-a-time, I remember him making his way down the field knocking linebackers and defensive backs on their collective
asses in front of the running back.
At 6' 4-5", 235-40, with a head of steam, he delivered a healthy blow. I hope Galllady is 1/2 as good !
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is "well, technically, it was his SECOND season...and well, they did get screwed by the refs during the course of his career..."
The sheer whiff of any excuse making for Jones sends you and the usual suspects into a frenzy, and yet, whenever another player is discussed, you find narratives and ways to make excuses, the same stuff you always tell posters NOT to do about the Giants
Narratives. These buzzwords are just beautiful.
Let's address the two incidents you raised for Stafford...
On the third year issue, there is no excuse. It's accurately describing the circumstance. Stafford got hurt his second year and only played three games (shoulder). At that point, he had 13 starts. Right? So while he was technically into his third season by contract, his second year was basically a wash out. Can we agree on that? Whereas Jones had 26 starts by the end of his second year...
You can try to spin it any way you like, but it's still making an excuse.
But yet, you (and others) are completely dismissive when people (rightfully) that DJ has had (close to) zero weapons, had two OC's in two years and had to deal with no offseason due to COVID.
Yeah, sure - no agenda there!
I mean hell - when Stafford became available there were “bring him in!” Posts. Which is fine, that opinion is absolutely valid. Just very very ridiculous to me when people say “his OL and defense sucked!” About Stafford, but posters want Jones to do it all his first two years without much help.
Really exited for Golladay. He’s a Top 10/15 WR who is legitimately elite as a down field threat. Jones’ YPA has been very poor so far and it’s due to a lot of things, but one being that the Giants’ WR position has been significantly below average in his time here.
Jones’ deep ball passing numbers were strong this past year although on limited volume. I’m hoping he can maintain that deep ball efficiency on more downfield attempts this year through Golladay. That would open up so much space for the offense to work with in the short/intermediate range, in terms of both running and passing.
You can try to spin it any way you like, but it's still making an excuse.
But yet, you (and others) are completely dismissive when people (rightfully) that DJ has had (close to) zero weapons, had two OC's in two years and had to deal with no offseason due to COVID.
Yeah, sure - no agenda there!
So speedywheels, you agree then that the GM did an awful job of putting a poor offensive roster in place for his young QB?
Hopefully he will be shuffling with the ball in the end zone each and every week...
Kadarius Toney has a 13.3 College per catch average. Seems to me, if I've got time, I'm going for Galladay. If I'm running to my life, I'm looking for Toney.
Hopefully, both can start winning this coming season.
Right now...taking into account salary....I prefer Jones.
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D. Jones first two years are better than Stafford's (avg. QBR nearly 60 vs mid 40s). And Stafford didn't have the long list of shit going against him going into his 2nd yr (he had some shit going against him, but nothing like D. Jones had last year).
Oh, let me guess, you can't compare them. Different era, right? Give me a break.
But guess what? Stafford took a large leap forward in his THIRD season. Hmmm.
Uh, Stafford got hurt his second year. He only played three games.
So his third year was really his second year. Care to dive into those numbers and compare to Jones's second year?
Jones has 26 starts through 2 years. Stafford had 13.
Nice try.
I do not get the Stafford love, never did, never will. There is nothing wrong with Jones arm, it is more than plenty strong to play in the NFL. Joe Montana could not break a pane of glass and while Brady used to have a great arm, it is not much right now.
Jones has to stop fumbling and he will be just fine. He has to stop with stupid INTS. Jones' arm is not what is holding him back. He is a hell of a lot more accurate than Eli, throws a much better spiral and can actually complete a screen pass.
They've definitely improved, but just not sure where they are right now, especially the right side
They've definitely improved, but just not sure where they are right now, especially the right side
Agreed. Running and pass pro. All the toys are great, but if we can't protect, won't matter. I get concerned any offseason when I'm excited about the offense, feels like the wheels always come off someway somehow.
As to Eric's original post...funny you should mention it. Was literally in the car yesterday when it just randomly hit me that, "Woah, Kenny Golladay is a GIANT". Fun stuff.