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Lost in the shuffle... the Giants have Kenny Golladay

Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/5/2021 11:27 am
There have been so many moves both in free agency and the Draft to talk about that I kind of feel like Golladay has gotten lost in the shuffle.

He is the most important addition the team has made this offseason and will change the entire offense by just his presence.
Has become Daniel best friend in a hurry  
George from PA : 5/5/2021 11:28 am : link
.
The guy that NOBODY is talking about is Ross  
David B. : 5/5/2021 11:32 am : link
Not saying anyone should bet on Ross becoming a huge factor, but NO ONE is talking about him. Everyone in the media talks about the offense and mentions Barkley coming back, Golliday, Toney, Sheppard, Slayton, Engram, and Rudolph. And how DJ has no excuses now.

People forget that if he does nothing else, Ross can just run go routes and take the top off of defenses -- even if they don't throw to him often.
I Was Thinking About This Recently  
HMunster : 5/5/2021 11:33 am : link
In terms of the OL and what if we are still mediocre (I'm being generous).

With Golloday as a deep threat, I don't see teams stacking the box otherwsie Golloday will burn them. This would ostensibly ease some pressure off the OL giving DJ more time to throw. Add in Barkley and Toney who can catch passes in the flat / dump-offs, plus Rudolph as a big safety valve underneath, and there are a lot of ways this team can beat you even with a suspect OL. And that doesn't take into account Shepard, Slayton, Ross and yes, Engram.
Golladay, Barkley, Toney, Rudolph  
bigschott : 5/5/2021 11:34 am : link
That’s a lot of offensive firepower to add to your team in one offseason.

He is the key piece  
Dankbeerman : 5/5/2021 11:34 am : link
with him we can create space for Toney and Sheppard and Slayton provwd he wasnt ready to take on the top CBs on the opposing team.

Everybody gets licked down a level whe you have a true #1.
Why would anyone be talking about Ross?  
Greg from LI : 5/5/2021 11:35 am : link
He's a dumpster dive for a reason - he sucked ass in Cincinnati.
I kinda get the sense  
GiantsLaw : 5/5/2021 11:35 am : link
that he's looked at as more of a possession WR, which is seriously underestimating his ability IMO.
The only box they didn't tick off on offense  
JonC : 5/5/2021 11:36 am : link
is the OL, here's hoping they're up to the task.
he was certainly not my first choice  
UConn4523 : 5/5/2021 11:37 am : link
but there's no denying what he bring to the table if healthy. We haven't had anyone like him since Plax (not making a direct comparison, they are different players) and adding Toney just strengthens this signing, IMO. Perfect compliment and should also make Slayton more effective.

Ohh and getting Barkley back!
The days of teams being able to focus on our best guy and eliminate  
Snacks : 5/5/2021 11:40 am : link
them from the game are over.

Can't stack box now.

Front office has supplied the weapons. Coaches need to do their job now and use them to best of ability.

Key to season will be OL. I'm excited about the new OL coach. Hoping for the best.
Golladay's style  
The Jake : 5/5/2021 11:41 am : link
Routine acrobatic catches, yet pretty soft-spoken.

He only Tweeted a total of THREE TIMES during the entire season last year and two of them were about Christmas.

I like it.
RE: The only box they didn't tick off on offense  
Bill L : 5/5/2021 11:48 am : link
In comment 15254596 JonC said:
Quote:
is the OL, here's hoping they're up to the task.

I'm optimistic that a new mix of players (e.g., Fulton) and perhaps a potential vet addition as camps move forward, along with, as the major piece, a year of development and improvement of the existing pieces (renewed and better coaching/teaching), will raise the level a lot form last season. They won't bring in any all-pros (maybe a former one) but enough so that along with everything else that was mentioned (which didn't include Rudolph assisting with blocking), we won't be too self-destructive.
Golladay + Barkley + Toney is the ultimate hedge on progress  
Eric on Li : 5/5/2021 11:49 am : link
barring some truly ridiculous bad luck the NYG should have at least 1 big time weapon they didn't have last year in each game. For a team that lost a lot of games by 1 play here and there that's a big deal.
yep  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 11:50 am : link
my preference was Golladay + a 1st round WR talent, and it happened
i keep coming back to the fact that  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 11:51 am : link
Golladay led the NFL for WR in touchdowns in 2019, and Stafford played 8 games that year
RE: Why would anyone be talking about Ross?  
giants#1 : 5/5/2021 11:51 am : link
In comment 15254590 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
He's a dumpster dive for a reason - he sucked ass in Cincinnati.


Seriously, he'll be lucky to be active on game days after drafting Toney:

Golladay
Slayton
Toney
Shepard
ST contributor (most likely)
I thought the board...  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 11:53 am : link
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.
RE: I thought the board...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/5/2021 11:55 am : link
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.


I guess those five minutes of optimism from you during the draft was enough for the year?
Lost in the shuffle was the plan to improve the OL  
90.Cal : 5/5/2021 11:58 am : link
The excitement from all the weapons we've added is starting to wear off and I'm really concerned with our OL...

Thomas Lemieux Gates Hernandez Peart

IMO this young OL's development is more important than Saquon returning + the addition of Golladay combined

I have faith in Thomas and Gates... jury is still out on Lemeiux and Peart but Hernandez really hasn't shown any improvement from his rookie season and at this point, I know he's still really young, but I don't expect to see it from Hernandez.
RE: I thought the board...  
Bill L : 5/5/2021 12:00 pm : link
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.


You could argue that having a putative superior thrower squandered his best talent of winning balls.
If the OL is as competent  
Capt. Don : 5/5/2021 12:06 pm : link
as Gettleman and JJ appear to believe they are, we will be a pick your poison offense.

8 in the box to stop Saquan and rolling coverage to KG? Toney, Engram and Slayton/Shep - at least one of those (probably 2) has 1on1

As emotional as we get about Engram and his drops - they still have to cover him!

2 deep safeties/man under? Saquon running behind an OL that allowed WAYNE GALLMAN to avg 4.8 ypc and you better have a spy on DJ.

Blitz w/ Zone? KG and Shep set up shop in the soft spots.

Blitz w/man? Better have a spy, hope the OL doesnt pick it up and hope Toney and Engram dont win early. If they break one tackle - gone. [Engram cant catch] Joke [/Engram cant catch]

All depends on OL, DJ and Garrett but unlike last year, we have guys that can force a DC into making choices.
RE: RE: I thought the board...  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 12:08 pm : link
In comment 15254643 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:


Quote:


talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.



I guess those five minutes of optimism from you during the draft was enough for the year?


A. It was more than five minutes. I 'm not sure about all of the players, or the positions added, but I thought we finally acted like a team who knew how to optimize the draft board.

B. I actually feel great about the D. I am very fond of Graham and believe he's going to get the most out of a lot of options now.
RE: I thought the board...  
bigblue5611 : 5/5/2021 12:13 pm : link
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.


I don't know, I'm curious to see how KG performs with one of the best rated deep ball throwers from last year too.
I really like his game  
KWALL2 : 5/5/2021 12:16 pm : link
He makes tough catches.

I wanted Samuel. That was my #1 priority. We got a Samuel with Toney. The perfect fit and the last piece we needed.

If Barkley is 100% our skill position guys are truly elite. A great mix too. Explosive across the board. We are going from the bottom of the league to the top in scoring this year.
RE: RE: I thought the board...  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 12:23 pm : link
In comment 15254693 bigblue5611 said:
Quote:
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:


Quote:


talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.



I don't know, I'm curious to see how KG performs with one of the best rated deep ball throwers from last year too.


Stafford can make every throw on a football field - at times to his detriment - and the ball gets there is a hurry. Stafford can legitimately throw receivers open. I'm not convinced Jones can do that. So that's going to be different for KG.

But, yes, Jones throwing deep to KG will be worth watching...
For the first time in while  
UberAlias : 5/5/2021 12:24 pm : link
This team is going to be FUN to watch. I’m excited. Would be great if they opened up camp to public, but that might be asking too much.
RE: He is the key piece  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15254588 Dankbeerman said:
Quote:


Everybody gets licked down a level whe you have a true #1.


First of all, I like to get licked down a level once in a while.

2nd, I've seen some critics say Golladay isn't a true #1 and I'm like, really?

Are there a lot of #2 WRs out there that have led the league in TDs, 7th in yards and 3rd in YAC?
RE: I thought the board...  
djm : 5/5/2021 12:24 pm : link
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.


yeah, clearly leaving the comfy and awesome confines of Detroit for the awful, fear inducing stage of NY/NJ will prevent Galladay from catching TD passes and producing.

Seriously, where the hell do you come with this nonsense?
RE: yep  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 12:25 pm : link
In comment 15254627 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
my preference was Golladay + a 1st round WR talent, and it happened

Me too.
I don't tink Hernandez is a concern at all  
djm : 5/5/2021 12:26 pm : link
I think any so called short comings about him are overstated around here. He's been more often than not an average or even slightly above average guard from year one. He slipped a bit in 2020 but not to the point where he's on the bubble. He also was sick.

I think the OL will be better overall in 2021. It should play more like the 2nd half unit we saw last year which would be just fine, albeit not perfect.
Having and off season  
SCGiantsFan : 5/5/2021 12:27 pm : link
mini camp and pre-season will help this team immensely.

KG is a pro and has been working with DJ on timing, routes and etc... It would be nice if DJ8, has another QB & WR session, where all guys can put in some extra work on timing, routes and etc..
RE: Lost in the shuffle was the plan to improve the OL  
Old Blue : 5/5/2021 12:27 pm : link
In comment 15254649 90.Cal said:
Quote:
The excitement from all the weapons we've added is starting to wear off and I'm really concerned with our OL...

Thomas Lemieux Gates Hernandez Peart

IMO this young OL's development is more important than Saquon returning + the addition of Golladay combined

I have faith in Thomas and Gates... jury is still out on Lemeiux and Peart but Hernandez really hasn't shown any improvement from his rookie season and at this point, I know he's still really young, but I don't expect to see it from Hernandez.


I said this 100 times since FA began that this line as is is a HUMPTY Dumpty line, and all the wishing, and hoping on here, and all the excuses from COVID to being young will put the line back together again. I’ve heard that this so called great coaching staff can teach them to be good rather they have talent, or not.That is a lot to wish, and hope for.
RE: RE: I thought the board...  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 12:29 pm : link
In comment 15254716 djm said:
Quote:

yeah, clearly leaving the comfy and awesome confines of Detroit for the awful, fear inducing stage of NY/NJ will prevent Galladay from catching TD passes and producing.

Seriously, where the hell do you come with this nonsense?


Nice try. You know damn well there is a delta in QB skill between Stafford and Jones.

Or maybe you don't, which would be strange...
RE: RE: I thought the board...  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 12:34 pm : link
In comment 15254716 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:


Quote:


talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.



yeah, clearly leaving the comfy and awesome confines of Detroit for the awful, fear inducing stage of NY/NJ will prevent Galladay from catching TD passes and producing.

Seriously, where the hell do you come with this nonsense?

First, you start out with a very large dose of negativity, then you add.. ah, I don't want to be mean, so you can guess the rest.
RE: The guy that NOBODY is talking about is Ross  
Britt in VA : 5/5/2021 12:35 pm : link
In comment 15254581 David B. said:
Quote:
Not saying anyone should bet on Ross becoming a huge factor, but NO ONE is talking about him. Everyone in the media talks about the offense and mentions Barkley coming back, Golliday, Toney, Sheppard, Slayton, Engram, and Rudolph. And how DJ has no excuses now.

People forget that if he does nothing else, Ross can just run go routes and take the top off of defenses -- even if they don't throw to him often.


I was talking about him before the draft, saying why if the Giants ended up not going WR in the draft it would be okay because of the additions of Golloday and Ross. If Ross can stay healthy and catch a few balls, he has blazing speed to stretch the field.
RE: I thought the board...  
BSIMatt : 5/5/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.


You miss 100% of the shots at Daniel Jones you don't take. Fire away.
RE: I really like his game  
Eric on Li : 5/5/2021 12:37 pm : link
In comment 15254696 KWALL2 said:
Quote:
He makes tough catches.

I wanted Samuel. That was my #1 priority. We got a Samuel with Toney. The perfect fit and the last piece we needed.

If Barkley is 100% our skill position guys are truly elite. A great mix too. Explosive across the board. We are going from the bottom of the league to the top in scoring this year.


Sort of an interesting hypothetical - which combo would you rather?

KG/Toney
Samuel/Bateman

I think I'd lean towards the former because there's more upside even with the lower cash invested in the 2nd group (though I suppose if there was a compelling extra player added to group 2, like Thuney, the balance shifts). I do think Samuel was really coming into his own last year though and he's more than 2 years younger than Golladay.

(also i'm not trying to nitpick, i'm really happy with what we've got)
RE: yep  
Thegratefulhead : 5/5/2021 12:39 pm : link
In comment 15254627 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
my preference was Golladay + a 1st round WR talent, and it happened
Me too. Wanted Waddle, ended up way better. Waddle is a better prospect but Toney and the picks is >> Waddle alone.
Giants targeted KG a long time ago  
JonC : 5/5/2021 12:40 pm : link
and I wonder when they targeted O'Brien as well. Who else can we pilfer from the Lions?
RE: For the first time in while  
Bill L : 5/5/2021 12:41 pm : link
In comment 15254714 UberAlias said:
Quote:
This team is going to be FUN to watch. I’m excited. Would be great if they opened up camp to public, but that might be asking too much.


I thought that they were a *lot* of fun to watch last year.
I love when people use financial terms  
McNally's_Nuts : 5/5/2021 12:41 pm : link
to describe football players or football in general.

It's not more draft picks acquired it's "draft capital"

There is a "delta between the two" not a difference between the two players.
RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
Thegratefulhead : 5/5/2021 12:42 pm : link
In comment 15254735 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254716 djm said:


Quote:



yeah, clearly leaving the comfy and awesome confines of Detroit for the awful, fear inducing stage of NY/NJ will prevent Galladay from catching TD passes and producing.

Seriously, where the hell do you come with this nonsense?



Nice try. You know damn well there is a delta in QB skill between Stafford and Jones.

Or maybe you don't, which would be strange...
Not on tight window throws down the field. Jones is elite there. I really think you should back off on this narrative. Jones is driven and throws a perfect ball for Golloday. Really, turn on Jones highlights, look at the big plays and imagine Golloday there.
RE: Giants targeted KG a long time ago  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15254755 JonC said:
Quote:
and I wonder when they targeted O'Brien as well. Who else can we pilfer from the Lions?


Think the Lions would have taken Jones for Stafford...? ;)
RE: RE: For the first time in while  
JonC : 5/5/2021 12:43 pm : link
In comment 15254756 Bill L said:
Quote:
In comment 15254714 UberAlias said:


Quote:


This team is going to be FUN to watch. I’m excited. Would be great if they opened up camp to public, but that might be asking too much.



I thought that they were a *lot* of fun to watch last year.


I'd call it ugly fun, it was good to see positive traction of any kind on gamedays. But, the lack of finishers dulled the shine and cost them a better record/division crown.
RE: Giants targeted KG a long time ago  
McNally's_Nuts : 5/5/2021 12:45 pm : link
In comment 15254755 JonC said:
Quote:
and I wonder when they targeted O'Brien as well. Who else can we pilfer from the Lions?


Penei Sewell?
RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 12:46 pm : link
In comment 15254735 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254716 djm said:


Quote:



yeah, clearly leaving the comfy and awesome confines of Detroit for the awful, fear inducing stage of NY/NJ will prevent Galladay from catching TD passes and producing.

Seriously, where the hell do you come with this nonsense?



Nice try. You know damn well there is a delta in QB skill between Stafford and Jones.

Or maybe you don't, which would be strange...

Have you looked at Stafford's stats for his first 2 years, lately?

D. Jones first two years are better than Stafford's (avg. QBR nearly 60 vs mid 40s). And Stafford didn't have the long list of shit going against him going into his 2nd yr (he had some shit going against him, but nothing like D. Jones had last year).

Oh, let me guess, you can't compare them. Different era, right? Give me a break.

But guess what? Stafford took a large leap forward in his THIRD season. Hmmm.
Article from on Kevin Gilbride  
BSIMatt : 5/5/2021 12:47 pm : link
talking about the impact of Golladay, comparing it to Plax. Gilbride mentioned the impact Golladay would have in helping the run game. All I can think about is 2008, after the Plax incident and playing Philly in the playoffs. WRs getting mugged at the LOS, our oline that had been so dominant all year...didn't matter..Philly mugged the run too. Golladay is going to have a big impact on the offense.
RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
SteelGiant : 5/5/2021 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15254735 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254716 djm said:


Quote:



yeah, clearly leaving the comfy and awesome confines of Detroit for the awful, fear inducing stage of NY/NJ will prevent Galladay from catching TD passes and producing.

Seriously, where the hell do you come with this nonsense?



Nice try. You know damn well there is a delta in QB skill between Stafford and Jones.

Or maybe you don't, which would be strange...


I'm not going to argue a Jones to Stafford comparison right now because that would be too early in Jones' career to be fair. However I will say it must have been really hard to throw Calvin Johnson, Golden Tate (in his prime), and Kenny Golladay open. You can put Stafford on pedestal if you want to but Dante Culpepper looked really good with Randy Moss.
RE: RE: RE: For the first time in while  
Bill L : 5/5/2021 12:50 pm : link
In comment 15254764 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 15254756 Bill L said:


Quote:


In comment 15254714 UberAlias said:


Quote:


This team is going to be FUN to watch. I’m excited. Would be great if they opened up camp to public, but that might be asking too much.



I thought that they were a *lot* of fun to watch last year.



I'd call it ugly fun, it was good to see positive traction of any kind on gamedays. But, the lack of finishers dulled the shine and cost them a better record/division crown.


Part of it was also (for me anyway) diversion and part was relief that we had any football at all to watch last year.
Stafford had Calvin Megatron Johnson  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 12:51 pm : link
in his prime, when Stafford was a rookie. He also had TE Pettigrew. Who'd D. Jones have? Yet Jones outperformed Stafford.
No serious fan is going to compare Jones' arm with Stafford  
D HOS : 5/5/2021 12:53 pm : link
Most QB's don't match up to Stafford's arm. But Jones has shown that he can drop a long pass in the bucket, in stride. Every QB has different timing and velocity. I'm looking forward to seeing some great long distance hookups with Golladay! More of a concern to me would be his ability to put the ball in precisely the right spot in the shorter more contested/crowded routes. He hasn't always been great there.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 12:53 pm : link
In comment 15254770 Dr. D said:
Quote:

D. Jones first two years are better than Stafford's (avg. QBR nearly 60 vs mid 40s). And Stafford didn't have the long list of shit going against him going into his 2nd yr (he had some shit going against him, but nothing like D. Jones had last year).

Oh, let me guess, you can't compare them. Different era, right? Give me a break.

But guess what? Stafford took a large leap forward in his THIRD season. Hmmm.


Uh, Stafford got hurt his second year. He only played three games.

So his third year was really his second year. Care to dive into those numbers and compare to Jones's second year?

Jones has 26 starts through 2 years. Stafford had 13.

Nice try.
Um....jones in a much smaller sample size  
bLiTz 2k : 5/5/2021 12:57 pm : link
Has been the far more efficient deep ball thrower...the problem is the offense not being conducive to taking shots. He was successful under Shurmurs pushing the ball, and in the few attempts he had under Garrett it was more of the same.


The offense needs to evolve to maximize one of Jone's proven strengths. I've watched a ton of the lions, my old roommate is a fan...Saying Stafford is the clear better deep passer is wrong imo.
I kindof wanted to start my own thread like this  
mattlawson : 5/5/2021 12:57 pm : link
But since you did it I'll pile on. I cannot remember an offseason as exciting as this one. They not only told everyone what the ideal scenarios would be, they executed the plan. And time will tell, but if they also came out better than division rivals conspiring around them even better.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
Bill L : 5/5/2021 12:58 pm : link
In comment 15254783 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254770 Dr. D said:


Quote:



D. Jones first two years are better than Stafford's (avg. QBR nearly 60 vs mid 40s). And Stafford didn't have the long list of shit going against him going into his 2nd yr (he had some shit going against him, but nothing like D. Jones had last year).

Oh, let me guess, you can't compare them. Different era, right? Give me a break.

But guess what? Stafford took a large leap forward in his THIRD season. Hmmm.



Uh, Stafford got hurt his second year. He only played three games.

So his third year was really his second year. Care to dive into those numbers and compare to Jones's second year?

Jones has 26 starts through 2 years. Stafford had 13.

Nice try.


I would say that this is where we get into tortured comparisons of circumstances. Jones was also injured and then played hurt; should he get dinged for being the tougher player? And, since you raise that issue, then it becomes fair(er) to raise the COVID year issue. And on and on...
The Lions should've cut bait on Stafford after his 2nd season  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 1:01 pm : link
Here's his rookie stats: 13 TD, 20 INTs, 37.1 QBR

He missed most of his 2nd year due to shoulder injury and finished season 1-2, with a QBR of 50 (D. Jones had QBR of 61.5 last yr).

What the hell was wrong with them? (they could've had about 7 QBs by now!)

/s
RE: Um....jones in a much smaller sample size  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 1:01 pm : link
In comment 15254790 bLiTz 2k said:
Quote:

The offense needs to evolve to maximize one of Jone's proven strengths. I've watched a ton of the lions, my old roommate is a fan...Saying Stafford is the clear better deep passer is wrong imo.


I said Stafford was the better all-around thrower. I said Jones was a good deep ball thrower. It's not even close how much quicker Stafford's release is compared to Jones. Stafford is an elite thrower.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 1:02 pm : link
In comment 15254783 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254770 Dr. D said:


Quote:



D. Jones first two years are better than Stafford's (avg. QBR nearly 60 vs mid 40s). And Stafford didn't have the long list of shit going against him going into his 2nd yr (he had some shit going against him, but nothing like D. Jones had last year).

Oh, let me guess, you can't compare them. Different era, right? Give me a break.

But guess what? Stafford took a large leap forward in his THIRD season. Hmmm.



Uh, Stafford got hurt his second year. He only played three games.

So his third year was really his second year.


Excuses, excuses..
RE: RE: Um....jones in a much smaller sample size  
Thegratefulhead : 5/5/2021 1:08 pm : link
In comment 15254803 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254790 bLiTz 2k said:


Quote:



The offense needs to evolve to maximize one of Jone's proven strengths. I've watched a ton of the lions, my old roommate is a fan...Saying Stafford is the clear better deep passer is wrong imo.



I said Stafford was the better all-around thrower. I said Jones was a good deep ball thrower. It's not even close how much quicker Stafford's release is compared to Jones. Stafford is an elite thrower.
Stafford is an elite thrower. His release is better. Jones throws with better anticipation, I think. Jones throws a very catchable ball. I think it a good match with Golloday. Stafford is outstanding, I wont embarrass myself trying to bring him down to make Jones look better.
RE: The Lions should've cut bait on Stafford after his 2nd season  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 1:10 pm : link
In comment 15254802 Dr. D said:
Quote:
Here's his rookie stats: 13 TD, 20 INTs, 37.1 QBR

He missed most of his 2nd year due to shoulder injury and finished season 1-2, with a QBR of 50 (D. Jones had QBR of 61.5 last yr).

What the hell was wrong with them? (they could've had about 7 QBs by now!)

/s


Here are Stafford's real second year stats:

5K+ passing yards, 64% completion, 41TDs/16INTs (2.56 ratio), 7.6 YPA, 7.7 AYA, QBR 60+, 4 GWDs.

Can we agree those are pretty damn good?
IMO Barkley is the forgotten man  
Reale01 : 5/5/2021 1:11 pm : link
If he comes back at full strength. You can run a dump off or a draw on 3rd and long and he can take it to the house. That is rare and is a huge advantage. The receivers are nice, and they are needed, but a healthy Barkley will create major problems for defenses. This offense could be very good. The only thing that will hold them back is if either DJ is or the OL are awful.

RE: RE: The Lions should've cut bait on Stafford after his 2nd season  
Thegratefulhead : 5/5/2021 1:16 pm : link
In comment 15254824 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254802 Dr. D said:


Quote:


Here's his rookie stats: 13 TD, 20 INTs, 37.1 QBR

He missed most of his 2nd year due to shoulder injury and finished season 1-2, with a QBR of 50 (D. Jones had QBR of 61.5 last yr).

What the hell was wrong with them? (they could've had about 7 QBs by now!)

/s



Here are Stafford's real second year stats:

5K+ passing yards, 64% completion, 41TDs/16INTs (2.56 ratio), 7.6 YPA, 7.7 AYA, QBR 60+, 4 GWDs.

Can we agree those are pretty damn good?
No doubt. I would have traded Jones for him in a heartbeat. Just because I think Jones should get this year, please do not think I will hold emotional attachment to him. I was very ready to move on from Eli and he earned my loyalty.

What I was really trying to respond originally to was the Golloday thing about not being happy with Jones. Unnecessary and even though Stafford will very likely always be the better thrower, Jones could end up the better QB. Intangibles matter more at that position than any other. Jeff George had a better arm and release than Stafford...
Stafford did miss most of his second year  
eric2425ny : 5/5/2021 1:21 pm : link
But he still had a full offseason leading into that season and played in three games. He also continued to participate in team meetings, rehab/train, study the offense, etc. the rest of that season.

Stafford then had another full offseason, training camp, and preseason leading into that third campaign.

The benefit of being around the team, even while injured and the importance of the offseason, training camp, and preseason are often marginalized.

Point is whether he played three regular season games or not, it’s not correct to just skip year 2 and act like year 3 was his second season.

Hernandez  
gregori : 5/5/2021 1:25 pm : link
I think it's possible that the coaching staff was working Lemieux into the rotation and getting him reps knowing that Ziegler would not be around this year.
So maybe rather than Hernandez actually losing his job, maybe it was an issue of planning for the future. Coaches knew what they had in Hernandez and wanted to see what they have in Lemieux.
Lost time due to Covid and subsequent recovery from same just added to the matter.
It speaks volumes  
Jay on the Island : 5/5/2021 1:29 pm : link
about their draft class when adding Kenny Golladay becomes overlooked. The teams performance will come down to the offensive line and Daniel Jones. They have improved every position on the roster besides DL and S but to be fair safety is already set with McKinney, Peppers, Ryan, and Love.
RE: I thought the board...  
LeonBright45 : 5/5/2021 1:31 pm : link
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:
Quote:
talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.


Here we go again.............
RE: RE: I thought the board...  
eric2425ny : 5/5/2021 1:37 pm : link
In comment 15254860 LeonBright45 said:
Quote:
In comment 15254634 bw in dc said:


Quote:


talked the KG off-season idea, courtship, health, acquisition, etc to death.

We needed a break... ;)

I'm very curious to see how good KG is going to perform on a bigger stage and without a superior thrower (Stafford) throwing lasers to him.



Here we go again.............


Agreed, the love for Stafford is funny to me. He showed some flashes early in his career that he may be a good QB with a bunch of comeback victories, etc. But at the end of the day he’s a QB that puts up decent stats but hasn’t won anything. And he’s had some nice weapons in Calvin Johnson, Burleson, Marvin Jones, Golladay. We’ll see how he does in LA this year.
RE: RE: The Lions should've cut bait on Stafford after his 2nd season  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 1:38 pm : link
In comment 15254824 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254802 Dr. D said:


Quote:


Here's his rookie stats: 13 TD, 20 INTs, 37.1 QBR

He missed most of his 2nd year due to shoulder injury and finished season 1-2, with a QBR of 50 (D. Jones had QBR of 61.5 last yr).

What the hell was wrong with them? (they could've had about 7 QBs by now!)

/s



Here are Stafford's real second year stats:

5K+ passing yards, 64% completion, 41TDs/16INTs (2.56 ratio), 7.6 YPA, 7.7 AYA, QBR 60+, 4 GWDs.

Can we agree those are pretty damn good?

If you're going to play that game, we haven't seen D. Jones "real second year stats" yet (some of us can't wait to see what he can do with the awesome new weapons. Must suck to not look forward to that).

Remember, Kevin Gilbride said the upcoming season should be considered D. Jones 2nd. I don't know if JJ has exactly said that, but he obviously expects him to take a big leap forward (or else they would've done something to replace him).

Are some excuses better than others? In D. Jones case, you have a long list of shit that was completely out of his control. In Stafford's case, you had an injury to his throwing shoulder.

That may have been out of Stafford's control too, but if anything, a season ending injury to a QBs throwing shoulder, after a poor rookie season, should be better justification for cutting bait, right? I know, not for you.

It doesn't matter what anyone says. Jones sucks and doesn't deserve his "real second season".

The real point about Stafford's leap forward is that it actually happened in his THIRD year. This is D. Jones THIRD year. If he takes the leap that others, including Stafford have taken, most of us will be very happy.

Jones is far better value....  
LeonBright45 : 5/5/2021 1:40 pm : link
as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft
RE: RE: RE: The Lions should've cut bait on Stafford after his 2nd season  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 2:07 pm : link
In comment 15254874 Dr. D said:
Quote:


If you're going to play that game, we haven't seen D. Jones "real second year stats" yet (some of us can't wait to see what he can do with the awesome new weapons. Must suck to not look forward to that).

Remember, Kevin Gilbride said the upcoming season should be considered D. Jones 2nd. I don't know if JJ has exactly said that, but he obviously expects him to take a big leap forward (or else they would've done something to replace him).

Are some excuses better than others? In D. Jones case, you have a long list of shit that was completely out of his control. In Stafford's case, you had an injury to his throwing shoulder.

That may have been out of Stafford's control too, but if anything, a season ending injury to a QBs throwing shoulder, after a poor rookie season, should be better justification for cutting bait, right? I know, not for you.

It doesn't matter what anyone says. Jones sucks and doesn't deserve his "real second season".

The real point about Stafford's leap forward is that it actually happened in his THIRD year. This is D. Jones THIRD year. If he takes the leap that others, including Stafford have taken, most of us will be very happy.


With all due respect, Stafford, again, only had 13 starts before he really crushed it. Maybe it was technically his third year by virtue of his contract, but by starts he was much further along than Jones.

The point I was making is that Stafford, purely based on throwing ability, is in a different universe than Jones and can make - and create - more throws than Jones. So I think it's going to be interesting to see how KG adapts to that.

But if you want to keep letting your imagination run away thinking Jones is on the same level as Stafford than dream away...
bw  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 2:08 pm : link
you and the usuals always say "enough excuses" and yet you are willing to make excuses for other teams and other players. I really don't grasp this concept.
RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 2:09 pm : link
In comment 15254873 eric2425ny said:
Quote:

Agreed, the love for Stafford is funny to me. He showed some flashes early in his career that he may be a good QB with a bunch of comeback victories, etc. But at the end of the day he’s a QB that puts up decent stats but hasn’t won anything. And he’s had some nice weapons in Calvin Johnson, Burleson, Marvin Jones, Golladay. We’ll see how he does in LA this year.


In Stafford's defense, he has played in Detroit. I wouldn't call that the most stable place in the NFL.

I do agree, however, to an extent, he has come up a bit short and a change of scenery was needed...
Career Record for M Stafford  
map7711 : 5/5/2021 2:13 pm : link
74-93-1



0-3  
map7711 : 5/5/2021 2:15 pm : link
Playoff record
RE: bw  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 2:16 pm : link
In comment 15254921 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
you and the usuals always say "enough excuses" and yet you are willing to make excuses for other teams and other players. I really don't grasp this concept.


What excuses are you referring to here?
RE: RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
Bill L : 5/5/2021 2:20 pm : link
In comment 15254922 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254873 eric2425ny said:


Quote:



Agreed, the love for Stafford is funny to me. He showed some flashes early in his career that he may be a good QB with a bunch of comeback victories, etc. But at the end of the day he’s a QB that puts up decent stats but hasn’t won anything. And he’s had some nice weapons in Calvin Johnson, Burleson, Marvin Jones, Golladay. We’ll see how he does in LA this year.



In Stafford's defense, he has played in Detroit. I wouldn't call that the most stable place in the NFL.

I do agree, however, to an extent, he has come up a bit short and a change of scenery was needed...


Rodgers is interesting to me. Not in defense of Jones but just in terms of the giants overall.

His age is so far out of tune with the rest of the lineup, that you'd have to be very deep into your investigation and confidence of his shelf-life (which includes more than the physicalness but also other extracurricular draws on his life). You would definitely be mortgaging the future to get him (especially when you think of not only draft picks but who you have to jettison in salary). You would almost need a SB guarantee in the next year or two; would the rest of the team be able to carry that? And then, after that, you're pretty much done for a decade.
RE: 0-3  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 2:25 pm : link
In comment 15254933 map7711 said:
Quote:
Playoff record


True, but even you must admit Detroit got absolutely screwed a few years ago in the playoff loss in Dallas. That was a tragic display by those refs...
Its funny how this thread changed into and Jones/Stafford convo  
SteelGiant : 5/5/2021 2:31 pm : link
I think I got caught up on the phrase "Elite Thrower"
What does that mean? Are we talking about pure Arm strength? Does that make you an "Elite Thrower" ?

I think an elite thrower would also include timing, touch, and placement too. In that regard I never fully understood the Stafford love. He has played with some GREAT receivers who can mask a lot of QB errors.

So my argument just might be a semantic one.

Back to the topic of this thread - I am super excited to see Golladay with Daniel Jones and it is great he will give us barometer as fans to judge Daniel Jones.

I will use the Culpepper example again - but great weapons make some predestination QB look great. I think DJ is better than Culpepper and I expect his numbers to increase with his new weapons.

Golladay will not only improve DJ for their connection, but he should improve DJ with others as well. He will pull double teams, leaving space for others. This should also give the benefit to DJ to read the field better which is something he needs to improve on this year.

DJ is a pre-snap read QB which Golladay will be there to make the contested catch while Toney may give Daniel the added boost he needs post read when Safeties need to make quicker decisions when in coverage than sit back like last year when player failed to get separation quickly.
RE: I love when people use financial terms  
VTChuck : 5/5/2021 2:33 pm : link
In comment 15254757 McNally's_Nuts said:
Quote:

There is a "delta between the two" not a difference between the two players.


I'm puzzled... are they in Mississippi? At an airport? In a sorority house?
It continues..  
FatMan in Charlotte : 5/5/2021 2:37 pm : link
to be a special skill to be able to create false narratives and bring Jones into a conversation where he isn't the topic.

I also love a world where Jones record is what it is and excuses are a losers lament while Matthew stafford's record is a function of the dysfunction in Detroit, not his own weaknesses.
RE: RE: I love when people use financial terms  
SteelGiant : 5/5/2021 2:38 pm : link
In comment 15254961 VTChuck said:
Quote:
In comment 15254757 McNally's_Nuts said:


Quote:



There is a "delta between the two" not a difference between the two players.



I'm puzzled... are they in Mississippi? At an airport? In a sorority house?


NICE
Kerry Collins had a great arm  
Peter from NH (formerly CT) : 5/5/2021 2:50 pm : link
so what? He had limited touch and was a mediocre QB that had some really good days. Being a quality NFL QB is only partly about "arm talent". But back to the thread...

In any case, Golladay and Barkley on the field together change the Giants fundamentally. No more stacking the box. And no more dropping everyone into coverage. Now you have to play the Giants even up. That is going to completely change the game for the Giants over what has happened during the last two years.
RE: Jones is far better value....  
The Mike : 5/5/2021 2:55 pm : link
In comment 15254883 LeonBright45 said:
Quote:
as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft


The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.
RE: RE: Jones is far better value....  
Dr. D : 5/5/2021 3:06 pm : link
In comment 15254997 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15254883 LeonBright45 said:


Quote:


as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft



The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.

How much would Detroit have gotten for Stafford after his 2nd season (and rookie season that was much worse than that of D. Jones)? Possibly less than the Giants would've gotten for D. Jones after his 2nd.

The Lions wisely gave Stafford a THIRD season to prove himself. And he did. Can we please just fucking do the same for Jones?
RE: It continues..  
McNally's_Nuts : 5/5/2021 3:07 pm : link
In comment 15254965 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to be a special skill to be able to create false narratives and bring Jones into a conversation where he isn't the topic.

I also love a world where Jones record is what it is and excuses are a losers lament while Matthew stafford's record is a function of the dysfunction in Detroit, not his own weaknesses.


How about in 2013 when all the Lions had to do was beat the Giants who's best offensive weapon at the time was Jerrell Jernigan and lost.
In general, this is not just about Golladay  
cjac : 5/5/2021 3:15 pm : link
but the Giants had a roster where 50% of the players on the team were barely NFL quality players, they really turned this around fast. Now we have backups that could possibly start on other teams. They've done a really good job of upgrading the roster a lot sooner than I thought the would.

I know every conversation comes back to Jones, but as long as the OL performs on the improved level they were showing late in the season, we will really find out of DJ is the guy or not. Most of the excuses seem to be gone
RE: It continues..  
map7711 : 5/5/2021 3:36 pm : link
In comment 15254965 FatMan in Charlotte said:
Quote:
to be a special skill to be able to create false narratives and bring Jones into a conversation where he isn't the topic.

I also love a world where Jones record is what it is and excuses are a losers lament while Matthew stafford's record is a function of the dysfunction in Detroit, not his own weaknesses.


Absolutely correct. It amazes me that Eli took a ton of shit on this very board about his record even w two freaking SB MVPs. And DJ takes a ton of shit for his record. He’s only been at it for two years. Stafford? 12 years.

But Stafford, 20 games below 500 and not one PO win.

Sometimes you just got to shake your head.
RE: RE: RE: Jones is far better value....  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 3:39 pm : link
In comment 15255028 Dr. D said:
Quote:

How much would Detroit have gotten for Stafford after his 2nd season (and rookie season that was much worse than that of D. Jones)? Possibly less than the Giants would've gotten for D. Jones after his 2nd.

The Lions wisely gave Stafford a THIRD season to prove himself. And he did. Can we please just fucking do the same for Jones?


Just to round this out, the economics were different, too, with Stafford. His first contract was for 6yrs/$72M.
Looking forward to seeing him  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/5/2021 3:45 pm : link
as I have seen very little. Football is all about positions mutually supporting each other. Better teams find and exploit the weakness so in the end you need to strong or at least have presence in all position groups. Load up for the run, you can deal with it. Sit back in coverage, you take 5 on the ground. It why Eli changed plays so much with Gilbride when the Giants actually had a offense.

I still hold arm talent to be a very important trait of a QB. WFT for example has the chance to be a very good defense with a defensive minded HC. They will scheme and play to make Jones stick those long throws that need to be thrown with velocity on a line. Jones will need to make them.
RE: RE: RE: Jones is far better value....  
The Mike : 5/5/2021 3:46 pm : link
In comment 15255028 Dr. D said:
Quote:
In comment 15254997 The Mike said:


Quote:


In comment 15254883 LeonBright45 said:


Quote:


as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft



The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.


How much would Detroit have gotten for Stafford after his 2nd season (and rookie season that was much worse than that of D. Jones)? Possibly less than the Giants would've gotten for D. Jones after his 2nd.

The Lions wisely gave Stafford a THIRD season to prove himself. And he did. Can we please just fucking do the same for Jones?


If Jones has the same third year as Stafford there will be dancing in the streets... But there was near universal clarity that Stafford was a good quarterback despite his slow start and he would have still had greater trade value than Jones at the same point in his career...
bw your narrative about Stafford  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 4:04 pm : link
is "well, technically, it was his SECOND season...and well, they did get screwed by the refs during the course of his career..."

The sheer whiff of any excuse making for Jones sends you and the usual suspects into a frenzy, and yet, whenever another player is discussed, you find narratives and ways to make excuses, the same stuff you always tell posters NOT to do about the Giants
Stafford  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 4:08 pm : link
has amazing arm talent, probably one of the better arms in NFL history, but in large part, he has been an above average solid franchise QB, but not much else. I definitely don't fault him for the lack of team success during his Lions tenure, their defense was always pretty bad. But some posters here act like he's a great quarterback, the past few seasons he has been pretty average to me.
2011-2016  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 4:09 pm : link
was the Lions window. They went to the playoff three times and lost all three, not much else to say.
RE: RE: Jones is far better value....  
BSIMatt : 5/5/2021 4:23 pm : link
In comment 15254997 The Mike said:
Quote:
In comment 15254883 LeonBright45 said:


Quote:


as the #6 pick in his draft than Stafford has been as the #1 pick in his draft



The Rams just gave two number one picks and Jared Goff for Matthew Stafford. At best, Daniel Jones would get a second round pick... There is no comparison between these two quarterbacks.


Comparing what Stafford would get in his prime to Jones in his second year. Brilliant.
There are two guys on this site  
Dave on the UWS : 5/5/2021 5:02 pm : link
(One is on this thread)! Who’s entire contribution to the forum is “Jones is garbage cut him, if he can’t be a pro bowler by year 2, dump him). It gets tired and old. Every day, every thread. Oh yeah, there also “Jints central doesn’t know what the “F” they are doing. Fire everyone! How’s that working out now?
RE: bw your narrative about Stafford  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 5:25 pm : link
In comment 15255160 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
is "well, technically, it was his SECOND season...and well, they did get screwed by the refs during the course of his career..."

The sheer whiff of any excuse making for Jones sends you and the usual suspects into a frenzy, and yet, whenever another player is discussed, you find narratives and ways to make excuses, the same stuff you always tell posters NOT to do about the Giants


Narratives. These buzzwords are just beautiful.

Let's address the two incidents you raised for Stafford...

On the third year issue, there is no excuse. It's accurately describing the circumstance. Stafford got hurt his second year and only played three games (shoulder). At that point, he had 13 starts. Right? So while he was technically into his third season by contract, his second year was basically a wash out. Can we agree on that? Whereas Jones had 26 starts by the end of his second year...

If what happened to the Lions and Stafford, in Dallas for that 2015 playoff game, happened to the Giants in a playoff game this site would be set on fire. And rightfully so. That was a horrendous call. Even my Fat Friend in Charlotte, I believe, would agree with this take...

RE: Stafford  
bw in dc : 5/5/2021 5:27 pm : link
In comment 15255166 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
has amazing arm talent, probably one of the better arms in NFL history, but in large part, he has been an above average solid franchise QB, but not much else. I definitely don't fault him for the lack of team success during his Lions tenure, their defense was always pretty bad. But some posters here act like he's a great quarterback, the past few seasons he has been pretty average to me.


I think that is an apt description of Stafford. And I never said he was a great QB. I said he had elite arm talent.
RE: There are two guys on this site  
Jimmy Googs : 5/5/2021 5:31 pm : link
In comment 15255247 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
(One is on this thread)! Who’s entire contribution to the forum is “Jones is garbage cut him, if he can’t be a pro bowler by year 2, dump him). It gets tired and old. Every day, every thread. Oh yeah, there also “Jints central doesn’t know what the “F” they are doing. Fire everyone! How’s that working out now?


Ironically, this type of post seems to your entire contribution as well...
Plaxico was a force in the run game ....  
Manny in CA : 5/5/2021 5:34 pm : link

Many-a-time, I remember him making his way down the field knocking linebackers and defensive backs on their collective
asses in front of the running back.

At 6' 4-5", 235-40, with a head of steam, he delivered a healthy blow. I hope Galllady is 1/2 as good !
RE: RE: bw your narrative about Stafford  
speedywheels : 5/5/2021 5:41 pm : link
In comment 15255295 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15255160 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


is "well, technically, it was his SECOND season...and well, they did get screwed by the refs during the course of his career..."

The sheer whiff of any excuse making for Jones sends you and the usual suspects into a frenzy, and yet, whenever another player is discussed, you find narratives and ways to make excuses, the same stuff you always tell posters NOT to do about the Giants



Narratives. These buzzwords are just beautiful.

Let's address the two incidents you raised for Stafford...

On the third year issue, there is no excuse. It's accurately describing the circumstance. Stafford got hurt his second year and only played three games (shoulder). At that point, he had 13 starts. Right? So while he was technically into his third season by contract, his second year was basically a wash out. Can we agree on that? Whereas Jones had 26 starts by the end of his second year...



You can try to spin it any way you like, but it's still making an excuse.

But yet, you (and others) are completely dismissive when people (rightfully) that DJ has had (close to) zero weapons, had two OC's in two years and had to deal with no offseason due to COVID.

Yeah, sure - no agenda there!
bw  
ryanmkeane : 5/5/2021 6:04 pm : link
I get your point, but I think some posters here would love Daniel Jones to become Matthew Stafford. And yet…Stafford really did not reach the heights that even Lions fans probably wanted out of him. They won nothing in 11 seasons with him at QB.

I mean hell - when Stafford became available there were “bring him in!” Posts. Which is fine, that opinion is absolutely valid. Just very very ridiculous to me when people say “his OL and defense sucked!” About Stafford, but posters want Jones to do it all his first two years without much help.
Golladay (and Toney being intriguing himself)  
Osi Osi Osi OyOyOy : 5/5/2021 6:06 pm : link
Definitely makes the Eagles leaping us to take Smith hurt less.

Really exited for Golladay. He’s a Top 10/15 WR who is legitimately elite as a down field threat. Jones’ YPA has been very poor so far and it’s due to a lot of things, but one being that the Giants’ WR position has been significantly below average in his time here.

Jones’ deep ball passing numbers were strong this past year although on limited volume. I’m hoping he can maintain that deep ball efficiency on more downfield attempts this year through Golladay. That would open up so much space for the offense to work with in the short/intermediate range, in terms of both running and passing.
We need a couple of tough  
Carl in CT : 5/5/2021 6:19 pm : link
Guards and I would be a believer. Jones is still going to get killed. Hurt or turnovers will happen and the nay sayers will blame Jones. When Mahomes did crap against TB at least they were smart enough this off-season to solve the problem. We haven’t.
I think Golladay  
BSIMatt : 5/5/2021 6:23 pm : link
Is going to help Saquon a lot. Just remember playing Dallas in 2019 and the entire Dallas d just mugging Barkley, we had no big threat to make them pay for it.
RE: RE: RE: bw your narrative about Stafford  
Jimmy Googs : 5/5/2021 6:24 pm : link
In comment 15255328 speedywheels said:
Quote:

You can try to spin it any way you like, but it's still making an excuse.

But yet, you (and others) are completely dismissive when people (rightfully) that DJ has had (close to) zero weapons, had two OC's in two years and had to deal with no offseason due to COVID.

Yeah, sure - no agenda there!


So speedywheels, you agree then that the GM did an awful job of putting a poor offensive roster in place for his young QB?
I don't think Golladay has been lost in any shuffle.  
Jimmy Googs : 5/5/2021 6:27 pm : link
Big signing that had better pay dividends as he didn't come cheap and the Offense and his young QB need him badly.

Hopefully he will be shuffling with the ball in the end zone each and every week...
Golladay is not being paid to be the deep threat. He’s being paid to  
Ivan15 : 5/5/2021 6:49 pm : link
Be the “go to” guy on third down to keep the drive going. If the Giants throw over 20 yards to Golladay more than once per game, there’s something wrong with the game plan or the opposing defense has collapsed.
Galladay has a 16.8 per catch pro average ....  
Manny in CA : 5/5/2021 10:50 pm : link

Kadarius Toney has a 13.3 College per catch average. Seems to me, if I've got time, I'm going for Galladay. If I'm running to my life, I'm looking for Toney.
Matthew Stafford career to this point has been a disappointment.  
George from PA : 5/6/2021 5:43 am : link
So has Daniel Jones....its about wins and loses.

Hopefully, both can start winning this coming season.

Right now...taking into account salary....I prefer Jones.

RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I thought the board...  
section125 : 5/6/2021 7:14 am : link
In comment 15254783 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15254770 Dr. D said:


Quote:



D. Jones first two years are better than Stafford's (avg. QBR nearly 60 vs mid 40s). And Stafford didn't have the long list of shit going against him going into his 2nd yr (he had some shit going against him, but nothing like D. Jones had last year).

Oh, let me guess, you can't compare them. Different era, right? Give me a break.

But guess what? Stafford took a large leap forward in his THIRD season. Hmmm.



Uh, Stafford got hurt his second year. He only played three games.

So his third year was really his second year. Care to dive into those numbers and compare to Jones's second year?

Jones has 26 starts through 2 years. Stafford had 13.

Nice try.


I do not get the Stafford love, never did, never will. There is nothing wrong with Jones arm, it is more than plenty strong to play in the NFL. Joe Montana could not break a pane of glass and while Brady used to have a great arm, it is not much right now.

Jones has to stop fumbling and he will be just fine. He has to stop with stupid INTS. Jones' arm is not what is holding him back. He is a hell of a lot more accurate than Eli, throws a much better spiral and can actually complete a screen pass.
still think key to this offense  
bc4life : 5/6/2021 7:17 am : link
taking off and jumping up a level or two will be the ability to run the ball. when teams have to respect, if not be concerned about the run, and a lot more receiving weapons....


They've definitely improved, but just not sure where they are right now, especially the right side
RE: still think key to this offense  
Giantfan in skinland : 5/6/2021 11:04 am : link
In comment 15255970 bc4life said:
Quote:
taking off and jumping up a level or two will be the ability to run the ball. when teams have to respect, if not be concerned about the run, and a lot more receiving weapons....


They've definitely improved, but just not sure where they are right now, especially the right side


Agreed. Running and pass pro. All the toys are great, but if we can't protect, won't matter. I get concerned any offseason when I'm excited about the offense, feels like the wheels always come off someway somehow.

As to Eric's original post...funny you should mention it. Was literally in the car yesterday when it just randomly hit me that, "Woah, Kenny Golladay is a GIANT". Fun stuff.
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