This is really true. I've never seen anything like it in professional sports. The whole house of cards fell.
They really have had a deer in the headlights feel against tougher, tighter teams.
Bench leadership, however, rather than leadership in the front office seems like the problem. I watch quite a bit of hockey, but don’t know s much as the game thread regulars, so I just lurk and learn from the people who follow the Rangers the way I obsessively follow the Mets. But I have seen enough to think Quinn is just a crappy coach with zero sense of authority.
100%. Can't say Dolan is wrong for wondering why his team has zero players that can protect his stars.
Also its funny to me that Buchenvich is a "hero" for a far more violent and intent to injure play. Very hypocritical.
I agree that the Rangers had every right to try to get revenge and play chippy. That's the way hockey has been forever. The people calling for a lifetime ban on wilson, but applauding cross-checks to the face are whom I have an issue with.
RE: RE: Caps and Isles basically bitch slapped the Rangers
100%. Can't say Dolan is wrong for wondering why his team has zero players that can protect his stars.
Also its funny to me that Buchenvich is a "hero" for a far more violent and intent to injure play. Very hypocritical.
I agree that the Rangers had every right to try to get revenge and play chippy. That's the way hockey has been forever. The people calling for a lifetime ban on wilson, but applauding cross-checks to the face are whom I have an issue with.
The guy followed Buchnevich around the ice like he wanted some, then got it. That wasn’t an unprompted reaction. Once the league decided “Wild West rules” applied, fuck it. In addition, does Buchnevich have a long, documented history of stick related or suspension-worthy offenses? These actions and more importantly, the actors, aren’t comparable.
Keep in mind this all started with Buchnevich being attacked by Wilson while prostrate on the ice.
RE: the point is, the presence of Boston's tough guys did nothing to stop
For one, the Carlo hit was a legit play, I don't believe there was any intent there, but again Wilson does not deserve the benefit of the doubt and he was forced in that game to answer the bell twice.
And the Bruins today are not the Bruins of Lucic and Thornton.
No spillover, no gotcha moments coming later, it's over (from what I believe).
And AFTER the Bruins forced Wilson to answer for his actions in that game, the league suspended him.
What Wilson did Tuesday was WWF stuff and my point all along was he should have been forced to answer for it on Tuesday.
The league messed up their discipline and the Rangers messed up standing up for their teammate even against a psychopath like Wilson when they don't have anyone who can really match up with him. What Smith did was fine, and usually all it takes. Maybe it's splitting hairs, but IMO that's the deterrent, Wislon hit Carlo high, Jack Edwards thinks it's dirty, but he thinks everything is dirty, I think it was an unfortunate hockey play - one that Wilson should and did pay for, but to me not one where I saw holy shit that guy is a maniac (I thought the McDavid elbow was much worse than the Wilson hit on Carlo)
but switching gears, What Buchnevich did is suspension worthy (too - like what Wilson did) and wasn't even to Wilson. it's more chicken shit than heroic in my book.
Sure, Buchnevich deserves a suspension for it in a vacuum
Will be suspended, and he should be suspended for an egregious play. I have really mixed feelings on this. The NHL asked for last night’s bullshit by not doing the right thing with Wilson. Rangers were up to the task and took care of business. Good on Smith in what will end up being his last home game as a Ranger going after Wilson and holding his own.
That said, Buch was clearly seeing red last night, and I don’t blame him. I honestly loved when he cross checked Mantha in the face, even though I know I’m not supposed to. You’d hope that with Buchnevich being a first time offender and with obvious reasons why he lost his shit, that the NHL would maybe give him a fine and move on, but I don’t see that happening. My hope is that Buch is suspended the last 2 games, and doesn’t get like a 10 game suspension that carries over into next year.
the islanders have had Matt Martin or Ross Johnston on the ice and all he does is run away. the guy is a grade A head hunting shit bag and the NHL has gone soft on him time and again, as if injuring opposing players with regularity is part of the game. Everything else flows from that.
Nor the Caps want to do anything about dirtbag Wilson I have no problem taking action against his teammates. Keep cheapshotting other players, and hurting them then your team can get hit back. Eye for an eye
But in the environment the league has now created? Buchnevich gets suspended but Wilson doesn't?
Mantha wanted a piece of Buchnevich, he got it. Fuck him and his shitbag team.
This is exactly the situation the league put themselves in by not suspending Wilson.
What it leads to is wonton disregard for safety, which strongly emphasizes the point the Rangers press release made - that the NHL Head of Player safety is unfit to do his job.
What sport basically encourages retaliation and endangers player safety because of the inaction of the Head of Player safety?
can you imagine if the NFL didn't discipline Myles Garrett and encouraged the Steelers to handle it themselves when the two teams played next?
from ending Lubo Viznovsky’s career with a really dirty hit to the head in the 2016 playoffs.
I’ll leave it to the NYR fans to debate whether NYR’s lack of “heavy” grinders is why they fell short in must win games recently vs NYI and others but Wilson is a separate issue from that. He’s a menace to the league and should be given lengthy suspensions when he does crap like that. NYR shouldn’t have to get heavier to protect against guys like Wilson (and doing so don’t do anything to stop him).
I will also point out that Chara got only the $5k fine
Buch deserves a game or two. Mantha had it coming, though by slashing Buch - also looked like Mantha was going for the cross check too and Buchnevich just beat him to it.
not only led to the complete shitshow we watched last night, but it also told the Rangers - sorry, it's up to you to police the league now and only you can make it right. Violence begets more violence, in essence. Makes for great ratings, right?
So yeah, Parros is unfit to do the job as Head of Player Safety. I don't give a shit about his past as a goon and how that makes him uniquely qualified to handle the job or that he went to Princeton or that his favorite color is mauve.
It also doesn't absolve Laviolette from simply handing out a one game suspension to his player, sending a clear message that Wilson's garbage won't be tolerated. But in order to do that, you have to have character. PL has none. He, the league and the Capitals can all get fucked.
not only led to the complete shitshow we watched last night, but it also told the Rangers - sorry, it's up to you to police the league now and only you can make it right. Violence begets more violence, in essence. Makes for great ratings, right?
So yeah, Parros is unfit to do the job as Head of Player Safety. I don't give a shit about his past as a goon and how that makes him uniquely qualified to handle the job or that he went to Princeton or that his favorite color is mauve.
It also doesn't absolve Laviolette from simply handing out a one game suspension to his player, sending a clear message that Wilson's garbage won't be tolerated. But in order to do that, you have to have character. PL has none. He, the league and the Capitals can all get fucked.
You said it a lot better than I did, B. Frankly, I was just angry. Buch got slashed, no call, and as Brett pointed out, he was about to get crosschecked and he beat him to it. He deserves a suspension, but I for one am glad he just didn't take any shit there. As for wanting them to run Oshie, in the heat of it I was out for blood. An eye for an eye and hurt their chances going forward in the playoffs. I know it's not a good sentiment, but again, I am still livid about what the did to Bread. I played this game for more than 30 years, mostly as a netminder, and never once got in a fight. First, it was an automatic disqualifier in almost every league I played in, and second I was a goalie. But I had plenty of teammates come to my aid after being run behind the net or in the crease. I hate...literally hate...the Capitals more than any team in any sport. It's no secret here, I say it a lot. Their fans, the team, the jokes Laughlin and Beninati who somehow are announcers...this team just sucks to the core.
not only led to the complete shitshow we watched last night, but it also told the Rangers - sorry, it's up to you to police the league now and only you can make it right. Violence begets more violence, in essence. Makes for great ratings, right?
So yeah, Parros is unfit to do the job as Head of Player Safety. I don't give a shit about his past as a goon and how that makes him uniquely qualified to handle the job or that he went to Princeton or that his favorite color is mauve.
It also doesn't absolve Laviolette from simply handing out a one game suspension to his player, sending a clear message that Wilson's garbage won't be tolerated. But in order to do that, you have to have character. PL has none. He, the league and the Capitals can all get fucked.
You said it a lot better than I did, B. Frankly, I was just angry. Buch got slashed, no call, and as Brett pointed out, he was about to get crosschecked and he beat him to it. He deserves a suspension, but I for one am glad he just didn't take any shit there. As for wanting them to run Oshie, in the heat of it I was out for blood. An eye for an eye and hurt their chances going forward in the playoffs. I know it's not a good sentiment, but again, I am still livid about what the did to Bread. I played this game for more than 30 years, mostly as a netminder, and never once got in a fight. First, it was an automatic disqualifier in almost every league I played in, and second I was a goalie. But I had plenty of teammates come to my aid after being run behind the net or in the crease. I hate...literally hate...the Capitals more than any team in any sport. It's no secret here, I say it a lot. Their fans, the team, the jokes Laughlin and Beninati who somehow are announcers...this team just sucks to the core.
I hear ya bud. Honestly, this entire fiasco couldn't have been handled worse. Really amazing how grown adults can fuck things up so royally. Hope you're well!
Wilson targets Panarin and Buch, there should have been a bullseye on Backstrom. Should have gone after him relentlessly. Making him pay for Wilson's bullshit is better than having 4th liners line brawl.
Wilson targets Panarin and Buch, there should have been a bullseye on Backstrom. Should have gone after him relentlessly. Making him pay for Wilson's bullshit is better than having 4th liners line brawl.
And then Dowd boards Lafrieniere. On and on it goes on both sides. And now you have a bunch of guys who play the right way injured and suspended.
Smith did the right thing with Wilson. He doesn’t have to win the fight, he only has to let him know he can’t play that way. Going after Oshie and Backstrom is garbage.
didn't "target" Panarin, that's some slight revisionism, Panarin pulled Wilson off the pile and Wilson responded.
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
Correct. He targeted Buchnevich while he was lying prone on the ice, created the pile up, and then defended himself by pulling Panarin's hair to drive his head into the ice. Then also punched him while he was on the ice.
didn't "target" Panarin, that's some slight revisionism, Panarin pulled Wilson off the pile and Wilson responded.
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
Correct. He targeted Buchnevich while he was lying prone on the ice, created the pile up, and then defended himself by pulling Panarin's hair to drive his head into the ice. Then also punched him while he was on the ice.
Why would you feel the need to reply that way to a response about Wilson "targeting" Panarin?
do you just like to be argumentative about things, your post had zero to do with my post and what I was responding to.
Elliott Friedman discusses the shakeup at MSG. His opinions: this has the stench of Sather's cigars to it, and the Rangers are going back to their old and, ultimately, unsuccessful ways of chasing the shiny. Link - ( New Window )
nbcsports washington (after Marchand bailed on a fight with Lars Eller - a retaliation fight for when Marchand jumped Eller) on fighting unwritten rules and etiquette and some really good quotes from Wilson and Devante Smith-Pelly (I can't see the authors name anywhere,but link is below.
And for the record, for those people saying things like fighting = money for the league, in the last poll I saw 98% of the players say they want to keep fighting in the game.
Quote:
...In today’s NHL, the most common reason for fighting is to stand up for a teammate. Hockey is a contact sport so it is impossible to react after every hit, but if it is believed a player has crossed the line between physical and dirty, then he will have to answer for it.
“Probably all my fights are with a hit that I don't agree with at the time,” Devante Smith-Pelly said.
A very recent example came on Jan. 8 when Smith-Pelly dropped the gloves with Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Radko Gudas. Gudas delivered a shoulder check right to the chest of Nic Dowd that knocked Dowd to the ice.
Smith-Pelly’s reaction to the hit was immediate. If you see a teammate take a dirty play, then you are expected to respond.
“If you're right there and you're the first guy and you feel like that's what you should do, then you've got to do it,” Smith-Pelly said.
From the other end, if you deliver a big hit, you are not going to be caught off guard when the other team comes after you. It is expected and often respected even if it doesn’t happen right away.
“Sometimes you're almost doing the guy a favor,” Wilson said. “He asks [to fight] and you'd expect the same in return.”...
Quote:
...“Before the game, you can look at a lineup and I know who on the other team would probably be willing to fight, who if something happened they would be ready,” Wilson said. “And then there's probably 11 other forwards that wouldn't. So when something happens, you go into Ottawa, you look at their lineup, it's a guy like [Mark Borowiecki], he's probably the guy that would fight if something happened. There's that understanding. I'm not going to go grab someone else on their team like the young [Brady Tkachuk] kid. There's just that understanding.”
But even if you know someone would be willing to fight, it doesn’t always mean that you should.
Wilson, for example, is typically on Washington’s top line and plays a major role on the team. Because of his growing role, Wilson cannot simply drop the gloves against anyone just because they ask.
“I try and really make sure the guys nowadays that I'm fighting have a role on the other team, that they're out there playing minutes,” Wilson said. “There's still guys like that around the league that are big parts of their teams that are willing to fight. If you get a five-minute major, you could be in the box for 10 minutes because you have to wait for a whistle. It can be a huge chunk of time so you've got to be really smart about it.”...
Quote:
“It's just kind of the way it is now with the instigator,” Wilson said. “I can't go out and hold him accountable, he has to agree to it.”
But saying no to a fight is not without its risks. Refusing a fight when a player wants to stand up for a teammate or spark his team has its consequences.
Wilson said there have been players who told him after he refused a fight that they would continue targeting his teammates with big hits until he agreed. He then has to determine how much he will allow before he ultimately acquiesces.
“There's a line,” Wilson said. “If he's playing physical and the game's going well then [no], if he's hurting your guys then you've got to probably stand up for them. There's guys that take that approach.”
Even with the instigator penalty, you also still risk getting hit if you refuse a fight.
As much as the Caps hated how Marchand “jumped” Eller, they did acknowledge that Eller ultimately chose to drop the gloves rather than take the penalty. The problem wasn’t the fight, it was how Marchand started it.
“I chose to drop the gloves too because there sometimes comes a point where you just have to defend yourself,” Eller said. “I chose to do that in that moment.”
“For me, unless I really, really am mad, I don't think I would ever just pop a guy if he says no,” Smith-Pelly said. “At the same time, if someone's trying to fight me and I say no and he pops me, I can't really be mad....
Quote:
...“It takes a certain breed,” Wilson said, “A certain guy to go out there on any given night and drop the gloves and fight so I think there's a respect level that, after that's done, you respect the guy.”..
didn't "target" Panarin, that's some slight revisionism, Panarin pulled Wilson off the pile and Wilson responded.
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
Correct. He targeted Buchnevich while he was lying prone on the ice, created the pile up, and then defended himself by pulling Panarin's hair to drive his head into the ice. Then also punched him while he was on the ice.
Why would you feel the need to reply that way to a response about Wilson "targeting" Panarin?
do you just like to be argumentative about things, your post had zero to do with my post and what I was responding to.
I haven't tracked your entire conversation (your reply didn't quote whatever post you were responding to directly so I may not have assumed the correct one), and we don't have to agree on this but I find any defense of Wilson to be argumentative and distorting of blame. Whatever Panarin did is way down the relevance scale because if he wasn't on the ice the same incident still erupts while the opposite is not true, and that shouldn't be lost. Without Wilson on the ice nothing happens except the next faceoff. Nothing about what he did to start the altercation was a hockey play. Assigning blame to Panarin is like blaming someone for trying to fight off a home invader and getting injured in the process. And as we are all well aware Wilson is a serial offender.
If you watch the clip my guess is he didn't even know it was Panarin until Panarin's helmet came off. If he even knew at all before it was over - it was a scrum until that point.
your analogy is completely off-base because I'm not blaming Panarin and I'm not defending what Wilson did, I am simply taking issue with the phrase about Wilson targeting Panarin.
Wilson is completely in the wrong and deserved a suspension but that incident is not what I'd call targeting Panarin.
I'm dealing with the Caps announcers...I hate these fucks and always have.
Pierre McGuire makes Chris Collinsworth seems like Mike Wallace.
Quote:
Exposed them as a team with no toughness.
Sad but true
This is really true. I've never seen anything like it in professional sports. The whole house of cards fell.
They really have had a deer in the headlights feel against tougher, tighter teams.
Bench leadership, however, rather than leadership in the front office seems like the problem. I watch quite a bit of hockey, but don’t know s much as the game thread regulars, so I just lurk and learn from the people who follow the Rangers the way I obsessively follow the Mets. But I have seen enough to think Quinn is just a crappy coach with zero sense of authority.
Need the 2021 version of bringing Keenan in.
Sad but true
exactly right
Quote:
Exposed them as a team with no toughness.
Sad but true
This is really true. I've never seen anything like it in professional sports. The whole house of cards fell.
yup. Hockey is the most primal of all the sports. A team that lacks toughness will be exposed.
Sad but true
100%. Can't say Dolan is wrong for wondering why his team has zero players that can protect his stars.
Also its funny to me that Buchenvich is a "hero" for a far more violent and intent to injure play. Very hypocritical.
I agree that the Rangers had every right to try to get revenge and play chippy. That's the way hockey has been forever. The people calling for a lifetime ban on wilson, but applauding cross-checks to the face are whom I have an issue with.
100%. Can't say Dolan is wrong for wondering why his team has zero players that can protect his stars.
No one gets protected by anyone else. Boston has a bunch of tough guys and it didn't deter Wilson from attacking Carlo.
Quote:
100%. Can't say Dolan is wrong for wondering why his team has zero players that can protect his stars.
No one gets protected by anyone else. Boston has a bunch of tough guys and it didn't deter Wilson from attacking Carlo.
Attacking? He threw a check and came up high. And was immediately jumped on by boston players and left the ice bleeding.
Quote:
Exposed them as a team with no toughness.
Sad but true
100%. Can't say Dolan is wrong for wondering why his team has zero players that can protect his stars.
Also its funny to me that Buchenvich is a "hero" for a far more violent and intent to injure play. Very hypocritical.
I agree that the Rangers had every right to try to get revenge and play chippy. That's the way hockey has been forever. The people calling for a lifetime ban on wilson, but applauding cross-checks to the face are whom I have an issue with.
The guy followed Buchnevich around the ice like he wanted some, then got it. That wasn’t an unprompted reaction. Once the league decided “Wild West rules” applied, fuck it. In addition, does Buchnevich have a long, documented history of stick related or suspension-worthy offenses? These actions and more importantly, the actors, aren’t comparable.
Keep in mind this all started with Buchnevich being attacked by Wilson while prostrate on the ice.
I view the two incidents very differently.
For one, the Carlo hit was a legit play, I don't believe there was any intent there, but again Wilson does not deserve the benefit of the doubt and he was forced in that game to answer the bell twice.
And the Bruins today are not the Bruins of Lucic and Thornton.
No spillover, no gotcha moments coming later, it's over (from what I believe).
And AFTER the Bruins forced Wilson to answer for his actions in that game, the league suspended him.
What Wilson did Tuesday was WWF stuff and my point all along was he should have been forced to answer for it on Tuesday.
The league messed up their discipline and the Rangers messed up standing up for their teammate even against a psychopath like Wilson when they don't have anyone who can really match up with him. What Smith did was fine, and usually all it takes. Maybe it's splitting hairs, but IMO that's the deterrent, Wislon hit Carlo high, Jack Edwards thinks it's dirty, but he thinks everything is dirty, I think it was an unfortunate hockey play - one that Wilson should and did pay for, but to me not one where I saw holy shit that guy is a maniac (I thought the McDavid elbow was much worse than the Wilson hit on Carlo)
but switching gears, What Buchnevich did is suspension worthy (too - like what Wilson did) and wasn't even to Wilson. it's more chicken shit than heroic in my book.
Mantha wanted a piece of Buchnevich, he got it. Fuck him and his shitbag team.
+1. If you want to be a tough guy challenge him. Using the stick is cowardly.
Link - ( New Window )
That said, Buch was clearly seeing red last night, and I don’t blame him. I honestly loved when he cross checked Mantha in the face, even though I know I’m not supposed to. You’d hope that with Buchnevich being a first time offender and with obvious reasons why he lost his shit, that the NHL would maybe give him a fine and move on, but I don’t see that happening. My hope is that Buch is suspended the last 2 games, and doesn’t get like a 10 game suspension that carries over into next year.
Mantha wanted a piece of Buchnevich, he got it. Fuck him and his shitbag team.
This is exactly the situation the league put themselves in by not suspending Wilson.
What it leads to is wonton disregard for safety, which strongly emphasizes the point the Rangers press release made - that the NHL Head of Player safety is unfit to do his job.
What sport basically encourages retaliation and endangers player safety because of the inaction of the Head of Player safety?
can you imagine if the NFL didn't discipline Myles Garrett and encouraged the Steelers to handle it themselves when the two teams played next?
I’ll leave it to the NYR fans to debate whether NYR’s lack of “heavy” grinders is why they fell short in must win games recently vs NYI and others but Wilson is a separate issue from that. He’s a menace to the league and should be given lengthy suspensions when he does crap like that. NYR shouldn’t have to get heavier to protect against guys like Wilson (and doing so don’t do anything to stop him).
Fatman's right. Complete failure by the league.
So yeah, Parros is unfit to do the job as Head of Player Safety. I don't give a shit about his past as a goon and how that makes him uniquely qualified to handle the job or that he went to Princeton or that his favorite color is mauve.
It also doesn't absolve Laviolette from simply handing out a one game suspension to his player, sending a clear message that Wilson's garbage won't be tolerated. But in order to do that, you have to have character. PL has none. He, the league and the Capitals can all get fucked.
So yeah, Parros is unfit to do the job as Head of Player Safety. I don't give a shit about his past as a goon and how that makes him uniquely qualified to handle the job or that he went to Princeton or that his favorite color is mauve.
It also doesn't absolve Laviolette from simply handing out a one game suspension to his player, sending a clear message that Wilson's garbage won't be tolerated. But in order to do that, you have to have character. PL has none. He, the league and the Capitals can all get fucked.
You said it a lot better than I did, B. Frankly, I was just angry. Buch got slashed, no call, and as Brett pointed out, he was about to get crosschecked and he beat him to it. He deserves a suspension, but I for one am glad he just didn't take any shit there. As for wanting them to run Oshie, in the heat of it I was out for blood. An eye for an eye and hurt their chances going forward in the playoffs. I know it's not a good sentiment, but again, I am still livid about what the did to Bread. I played this game for more than 30 years, mostly as a netminder, and never once got in a fight. First, it was an automatic disqualifier in almost every league I played in, and second I was a goalie. But I had plenty of teammates come to my aid after being run behind the net or in the crease. I hate...literally hate...the Capitals more than any team in any sport. It's no secret here, I say it a lot. Their fans, the team, the jokes Laughlin and Beninati who somehow are announcers...this team just sucks to the core.
Quote:
not only led to the complete shitshow we watched last night, but it also told the Rangers - sorry, it's up to you to police the league now and only you can make it right. Violence begets more violence, in essence. Makes for great ratings, right?
So yeah, Parros is unfit to do the job as Head of Player Safety. I don't give a shit about his past as a goon and how that makes him uniquely qualified to handle the job or that he went to Princeton or that his favorite color is mauve.
It also doesn't absolve Laviolette from simply handing out a one game suspension to his player, sending a clear message that Wilson's garbage won't be tolerated. But in order to do that, you have to have character. PL has none. He, the league and the Capitals can all get fucked.
You said it a lot better than I did, B. Frankly, I was just angry. Buch got slashed, no call, and as Brett pointed out, he was about to get crosschecked and he beat him to it. He deserves a suspension, but I for one am glad he just didn't take any shit there. As for wanting them to run Oshie, in the heat of it I was out for blood. An eye for an eye and hurt their chances going forward in the playoffs. I know it's not a good sentiment, but again, I am still livid about what the did to Bread. I played this game for more than 30 years, mostly as a netminder, and never once got in a fight. First, it was an automatic disqualifier in almost every league I played in, and second I was a goalie. But I had plenty of teammates come to my aid after being run behind the net or in the crease. I hate...literally hate...the Capitals more than any team in any sport. It's no secret here, I say it a lot. Their fans, the team, the jokes Laughlin and Beninati who somehow are announcers...this team just sucks to the core.
I hear ya bud. Honestly, this entire fiasco couldn't have been handled worse. Really amazing how grown adults can fuck things up so royally. Hope you're well!
@markscheig
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6m
Rangers handed a $250,000 fine for their comments about Player Safety.
@markscheig
·
6m
Rangers handed a $250,000 fine for their comments about Player Safety.
Lol, expected.
And then Dowd boards Lafrieniere. On and on it goes on both sides. And now you have a bunch of guys who play the right way injured and suspended.
Smith did the right thing with Wilson. He doesn’t have to win the fight, he only has to let him know he can’t play that way. Going after Oshie and Backstrom is garbage.
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
@markscheig
·
6m
Rangers handed a $250,000 fine for their comments about Player Safety.
But he should get a Crate full of pennies and have it delivered to NHL offices!
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
Correct. He targeted Buchnevich while he was lying prone on the ice, created the pile up, and then defended himself by pulling Panarin's hair to drive his head into the ice. Then also punched him while he was on the ice.
Quote:
didn't "target" Panarin, that's some slight revisionism, Panarin pulled Wilson off the pile and Wilson responded.
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
Correct. He targeted Buchnevich while he was lying prone on the ice, created the pile up, and then defended himself by pulling Panarin's hair to drive his head into the ice. Then also punched him while he was on the ice.
Why would you feel the need to reply that way to a response about Wilson "targeting" Panarin?
do you just like to be argumentative about things, your post had zero to do with my post and what I was responding to.
Link - ( New Window )
link - ( New Window )
And for the record, for those people saying things like fighting = money for the league, in the last poll I saw 98% of the players say they want to keep fighting in the game.
“Probably all my fights are with a hit that I don't agree with at the time,” Devante Smith-Pelly said.
A very recent example came on Jan. 8 when Smith-Pelly dropped the gloves with Philadelphia Flyers defenseman Radko Gudas. Gudas delivered a shoulder check right to the chest of Nic Dowd that knocked Dowd to the ice.
Smith-Pelly’s reaction to the hit was immediate. If you see a teammate take a dirty play, then you are expected to respond.
“If you're right there and you're the first guy and you feel like that's what you should do, then you've got to do it,” Smith-Pelly said.
From the other end, if you deliver a big hit, you are not going to be caught off guard when the other team comes after you. It is expected and often respected even if it doesn’t happen right away.
“Sometimes you're almost doing the guy a favor,” Wilson said. “He asks [to fight] and you'd expect the same in return.”...
But even if you know someone would be willing to fight, it doesn’t always mean that you should.
Wilson, for example, is typically on Washington’s top line and plays a major role on the team. Because of his growing role, Wilson cannot simply drop the gloves against anyone just because they ask.
“I try and really make sure the guys nowadays that I'm fighting have a role on the other team, that they're out there playing minutes,” Wilson said. “There's still guys like that around the league that are big parts of their teams that are willing to fight. If you get a five-minute major, you could be in the box for 10 minutes because you have to wait for a whistle. It can be a huge chunk of time so you've got to be really smart about it.”...
“It's just kind of the way it is now with the instigator,” Wilson said. “I can't go out and hold him accountable, he has to agree to it.”
But saying no to a fight is not without its risks. Refusing a fight when a player wants to stand up for a teammate or spark his team has its consequences.
Wilson said there have been players who told him after he refused a fight that they would continue targeting his teammates with big hits until he agreed. He then has to determine how much he will allow before he ultimately acquiesces.
“There's a line,” Wilson said. “If he's playing physical and the game's going well then [no], if he's hurting your guys then you've got to probably stand up for them. There's guys that take that approach.”
Even with the instigator penalty, you also still risk getting hit if you refuse a fight.
As much as the Caps hated how Marchand “jumped” Eller, they did acknowledge that Eller ultimately chose to drop the gloves rather than take the penalty. The problem wasn’t the fight, it was how Marchand started it.
“I chose to drop the gloves too because there sometimes comes a point where you just have to defend yourself,” Eller said. “I chose to do that in that moment.”
“For me, unless I really, really am mad, I don't think I would ever just pop a guy if he says no,” Smith-Pelly said. “At the same time, if someone's trying to fight me and I say no and he pops me, I can't really be mad....
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In comment 15256454 pjcas18 said:
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didn't "target" Panarin, that's some slight revisionism, Panarin pulled Wilson off the pile and Wilson responded.
For all you know Wilson didn't even know who it was who was pulling him off the pile until after he reacted.
Correct. He targeted Buchnevich while he was lying prone on the ice, created the pile up, and then defended himself by pulling Panarin's hair to drive his head into the ice. Then also punched him while he was on the ice.
Why would you feel the need to reply that way to a response about Wilson "targeting" Panarin?
do you just like to be argumentative about things, your post had zero to do with my post and what I was responding to.
I haven't tracked your entire conversation (your reply didn't quote whatever post you were responding to directly so I may not have assumed the correct one), and we don't have to agree on this but I find any defense of Wilson to be argumentative and distorting of blame. Whatever Panarin did is way down the relevance scale because if he wasn't on the ice the same incident still erupts while the opposite is not true, and that shouldn't be lost. Without Wilson on the ice nothing happens except the next faceoff. Nothing about what he did to start the altercation was a hockey play. Assigning blame to Panarin is like blaming someone for trying to fight off a home invader and getting injured in the process. And as we are all well aware Wilson is a serial offender.
If you watch the clip my guess is he didn't even know it was Panarin until Panarin's helmet came off. If he even knew at all before it was over - it was a scrum until that point.
your analogy is completely off-base because I'm not blaming Panarin and I'm not defending what Wilson did, I am simply taking issue with the phrase about Wilson targeting Panarin.
Wilson is completely in the wrong and deserved a suspension but that incident is not what I'd call targeting Panarin.