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Shockey or Bavaro. Who you taking?

19th Hole : 5/6/2021 3:20 pm
Marty's thread about Engram got me thinking about my preference for a tight end. The Giants have had some good ones over the years. Shockey and Bavaro both played 6 seasons for the Giants. No disrespect to Shockey but I'm taking Bavaro every day of the week and twice on Sunday! One of the toughest players I have seen play the game. Who are you taking?
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Bavaro and it's  
River Mike : 5/6/2021 5:29 pm : link
ridiculous that its even a question. Bavaro was everything you could want in a football player ... my favorite of all time.
Shockey had a lot of hat  
santacruzom : 5/6/2021 5:44 pm : link
but not nearly the same amount of cattle.
didnt Belichick say  
Kevin999 : 5/6/2021 6:21 pm : link
Gronk wasnt even in the same class as Bavaro?
Bavaro  
BlueVinnie : 5/6/2021 6:29 pm : link
And it's not even remotely close.
Bavaro  
Matt in SGS : 5/6/2021 6:32 pm : link
and it's not really close. If Bavaro doesn't get high/lowed in San Diego in 1989, he's in the Hall of Fame today.

One of the funny things as I have gone back to post the old highlights on the BigBlueVCR account, Bavaro was considered a blocker when he first got to the Giants, he wasn't much of a receiver until he went crazy in the Cincinnati game when he caught 12 for 176 yards as a rookie.

As Eric and others said, he was thrust into a larger role because Mowatt tore his ACL in the final pre-season game in Pittsburgh. Mowatt was going to be a breakout star at TE.

Bavaro is the only TE in NYG history to go over 1000 yards. And he would have gone well over it in 1987, he had over 800 yards in 12 games due to the strike.

And I've got plenty of highlights of him burying guys on run blocks, including DEs, and holding his own in pass protection.

Shockey was probably faster than Bavaro, but before his knee injury, Bavaro actually had surprisingly good speed. But Bavaro is best TE the NYG have had.
Why did we let Bavaro go?  
Ike#88 : 5/6/2021 6:33 pm : link
I hated that decision and that he went to the Eagles. Shockey was a drama queen and cost us the 49er game. Bavaro all the way then Tucker.
RE: Why did we let Bavaro go?  
Matt in SGS : 5/6/2021 6:39 pm : link
In comment 15257044 Ike#88 said:
Quote:
I hated that decision and that he went to the Eagles. Shockey was a drama queen and cost us the 49er game. Bavaro all the way then Tucker.


He failed his physical in camp in 1991. The Giants wanted him to retire because of the damage in his knee. What happened at the time was Wellington Mara was in surgery or recovering in the hospital. When Bavaro failed his physical, George Young went by the CBA and paid him the $60k amount when you waive a guy after failing a physical. That caused a mini uproar of the Giants being cheap, so when Mara recovered a few days later, they paid Bavaro the remainder of his salary as a thank you for all he had done.

Bavaro didn't want to retire and sat out the 1991 season to rehab. Belichick made him an offer to join him in Cleveland in 1992 and Bavaro took him up on it, but he was only there 1 year. Bavaro then rounded out his career in Philly, which was awful to see. He actually caught a TD pass vs the Giants in 1993, in Giants Stadium..from Kenny O'Brien, the former Jet QB of all people.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/6/2021 6:41 pm : link
Bavaro made some huge catches in the '90 title game vs. SF & XXV.
RE: didnt Belichick say  
Matt in SGS : 5/6/2021 6:41 pm : link
In comment 15257034 Kevin999 said:
Quote:
Gronk wasnt even in the same class as Bavaro?


Belichick said Gronk was on the same level as Bavaro, but he can't put anyone above Bavaro, because Bavaro was able to block Reggie White. So they were essentially tied in his mind.

It was LT that Belichick said he doesn't care who is playing in the NFL now, no one is on LT's level. And he's right.
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 5/6/2021 6:44 pm : link
Matt, as an aside, I love that Twitter account of yours. It's awesome content. Thanks for it.
RE: ...  
Matt in SGS : 5/6/2021 6:48 pm : link
In comment 15257055 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Matt, as an aside, I love that Twitter account of yours. It's awesome content. Thanks for it.


Thanks, I'm having fun with it. A few of the Giants coaches actually started following it and I'm trying to dig up stuff from 35-40 year ago that they might be able to sneak into a gameplan somewhere. Being Judge is from the Belichick tree, basically it's stuff from his early years as Little Bill and they can spring it on a team.
I’ve seen the name Bavaria mentioned a bunch of times.  
Giant John : 5/6/2021 6:52 pm : link
So I think we all pretty much feel the same. Don’t think I need to add mine too.
Matt  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 5/6/2021 7:16 pm : link
did NJ.com ever do that story on you?
I'm taking Bavaro and then Bob Tucker  
steve in ky : 5/6/2021 7:19 pm : link
.
Bavaro a forth round steal and  
xman : 5/6/2021 7:22 pm : link
Team player
The best story of the 2002 draft...  
Q v2.0 : 5/6/2021 7:51 pm : link
was Ernie having to take a Cessna 152 😎 to get to Shockley’s hometown so he could meet with him in person before drafting him 14th overall.

Good times.
RE: RE: ...  
Dr. D : 5/6/2021 8:08 pm : link
In comment 15257060 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15257055 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Matt, as an aside, I love that Twitter account of yours. It's awesome content. Thanks for it.



Thanks, I'm having fun with it. A few of the Giants coaches actually started following it and I'm trying to dig up stuff from 35-40 year ago that they might be able to sneak into a gameplan somewhere. Being Judge is from the Belichick tree, basically it's stuff from his early years as Little Bill and they can spring it on a team.

That's awesome Matt, keep up the great work.
yes  
steve in maryland : 5/6/2021 8:45 pm : link
Bob Tucker has to be added in aS A POTENTAIL #2 CHOICE

RE: Matt  
Matt in SGS : 5/6/2021 8:58 pm : link
In comment 15257091 Eric from BBI said:
Quote:
did NJ.com ever do that story on you?


Eric, not yet. I think he's going to run it later this spring when things are super dead.
As Alex Lifeson might say  
David B. : 5/6/2021 9:10 pm : link
Bavaro.
Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro!

Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro.

Bavaro!
Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro.

Bavaro!

Bavaro! Bavaro! Bavaro!

Bavaro!

Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro Bavaro.
RE: RE: Why did we let Bavaro go?  
Ike#88 : 5/6/2021 9:42 pm : link
In comment 15257048 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15257044 Ike#88 said:


Quote:


I hated that decision and that he went to the Eagles. Shockey was a drama queen and cost us the 49er game. Bavaro all the way then Tucker.



He failed his physical in camp in 1991. The Giants wanted him to retire because of the damage in his knee. What happened at the time was Wellington Mara was in surgery or recovering in the hospital. When Bavaro failed his physical, George Young went by the CBA and paid him the $60k amount when you waive a guy after failing a physical. That caused a mini uproar of the Giants being cheap, so when Mara recovered a few days later, they paid Bavaro the remainder of his salary as a thank you for all he had done.

Bavaro didn't want to retire and sat out the 1991 season to rehab. Belichick made him an offer to join him in Cleveland in 1992 and Bavaro took him up on it, but he was only there 1 year. Bavaro then rounded out his career in Philly, which was awful to see. He actually caught a TD pass vs the Giants in 1993, in Giants Stadium..from Kenny O'Brien, the former Jet QB of all people.


Thanks for the info Matt in SGS
Bavaro and it's not close  
Matt M. : 5/6/2021 9:45 pm : link
If he never screwed up his knee, I think he could have had an argument for greatest TE of all time.
.  
mort christenson : 5/6/2021 11:12 pm : link
Jeremy Shockey was a great talent and a good player.
Mark Bavaro was a good talent and a great player.
Bavaro, Tucker, Thomas, Walton, Kotite  
yalebowl : 5/6/2021 11:28 pm : link
I’m taking

Mark Bavaro
Bob Tucker
Aaron Thomas
Joe Walton
Richie Kotite

Before Dropsie Shockey in the San Francisco playoff game
RE: Bavaro, Tucker, Thomas, Walton, Kotite  
yalebowl : 5/6/2021 11:31 pm : link
In comment 15257238 yalebowl said:
Quote:
I’m taking

Mark Bavaro
Bob Tucker
Aaron Thomas
Joe Walton
Richie Kotite

And Howard Cross

Before Dropsie Shockey in the San Francisco playoff game
They don't belong in the same sentence or near each other  
giantstock : 5/7/2021 12:08 am : link
Why was the question even asked? It's not even close to be considered to be asked.
BAVARO BAVARO BAVARO ...  
short lease : 5/7/2021 12:31 am : link

at minute 2:49 -

" I tell you he is a stone face that Bavaro - you never know what he's thinking. I'd hate to have to fight that son-of-a-gun"

That is a quote from Parcells - who was firmly in charge of that team.





Link - ( New Window )
Is this a  
Bubba : 5/7/2021 6:32 am : link
trick question?
RE: Bob Tucker > Shockey too.  
Nomad Crow on the Madison : 5/7/2021 6:36 am : link
In comment 15256834 x meadowlander said:
Quote:
.


+100
Bavaro  
PaulN : 5/7/2021 8:15 am : link
Easily. Though Shockey could have been special.
Watched the 30 for 30 episodes on The U on ESPN  
chick310 : 5/7/2021 8:33 am : link
last evening. I hadn't seen it before so it was a good watch. Shockey was displayed in the part 2 episode plenty, including retrospective commentary.

He was a hell of a talent for such a big guy. Quick turns up field with the ball in his hand, always looking for the big play and reaching for a TD. Impactful.

He fit right in with that environment at Miami.
Bavaro hands down  
Lines of Scrimmage : 5/7/2021 3:30 pm : link
Also remember how the game was played in the 80's and the division and conference he played in. The NFC East and NFC were at the highest level of competition in the history of the league.
RE: RE: ...  
Thegratefulhead : 5/7/2021 3:34 pm : link
In comment 15257060 Matt in SGS said:
Quote:
In comment 15257055 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:


Quote:


Matt, as an aside, I love that Twitter account of yours. It's awesome content. Thanks for it.



Thanks, I'm having fun with it. A few of the Giants coaches actually started following it and I'm trying to dig up stuff from 35-40 year ago that they might be able to sneak into a gameplan somewhere. Being Judge is from the Belichick tree, basically it's stuff from his early years as Little Bill and they can spring it on a team.
I want to follow this.
RE: Watched the 30 for 30 episodes on The U on ESPN  
bw in dc : 5/7/2021 3:40 pm : link
In comment 15257331 chick310 said:
Quote:
last evening. I hadn't seen it before so it was a good watch. Shockey was displayed in the part 2 episode plenty, including retrospective commentary.

He was a hell of a talent for such a big guy. Quick turns up field with the ball in his hand, always looking for the big play and reaching for a TD. Impactful.

He fit right in with that environment at Miami.


Caught some of that, too. No doubt Shock was a very good player. BTW, those Miami teams in the early '00s were, IMV, they most talented teams in the history of the college football. It is stunning how much talent Butch Davis and Larry Coker recruited.
RE: RE: Watched the 30 for 30 episodes on The U on ESPN  
Thegratefulhead : 5/7/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15257790 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 15257331 chick310 said:


Quote:


last evening. I hadn't seen it before so it was a good watch. Shockey was displayed in the part 2 episode plenty, including retrospective commentary.

He was a hell of a talent for such a big guy. Quick turns up field with the ball in his hand, always looking for the big play and reaching for a TD. Impactful.

He fit right in with that environment at Miami.



Caught some of that, too. No doubt Shock was a very good player. BTW, those Miami teams in the early '00s were, IMV, they most talented teams in the history of the college football. It is stunning how much talent Butch Davis and Larry Coker recruited.
There were pro teams that would have had a hard time with them. They ran a pro offense as well.
RE: In an interview with Bob Papa...  
Racer : 5/7/2021 4:27 pm : link
In comment 15256971 Klaatu said:
Quote:
Bavaro said that going up against Carl Banks every day in practice made him the blocker he was.


Wish HOF voters understood this.
Bavaro  
Geomon : 5/7/2021 5:05 pm : link
I loved Jeremy Shockey to death. I watched him in college as a Hurricanes fan. I leapt for joy when the Giants drafted him. It killed me when he got hurt and then released. I still love him but he's not even close to Bavaro's level.
RE: RE: In an interview with Bob Papa...  
short lease : 5/7/2021 6:18 pm : link
In comment 15257843 Racer said:
Quote:
In comment 15256971 Klaatu said:


Quote:


Bavaro said that going up against Carl Banks every day in practice made him the blocker he was.



Wish HOF voters understood this.


+1
very different players  
RasputinPrime : 5/7/2021 9:40 pm : link
both exceptional and cut down by injuries. I'll take Bavaro every time.
Bavaro  
Spike13 : 5/7/2021 10:31 pm : link
Hands down, best two way TE, in a two decade period, caught the ball like a receiver, but ran it like a Mack truck. Only TE, that blocked better, as a Giant, was Howard Cross, Bavaro, played TE like a defender and perfected the seam route (just ask Ronnie Lott). One Gil Byrd cheap shot from HOF.
I'm sure the OP was sincere in asking this question,but I'm  
TheMick7 : 5/8/2021 8:35 am : link
fighting everything in me to not be sarcastic.Bavaro was the heart of those early Super Bowl teams. The Ronnie Lott piggy back carry for 20 yards,playing with a broken jaw & only eating liquids all week to do so,his blocking ability,his character. Shockey was a very good player(when he played),who garnered more of a following since he was outspoken about issues(whether he knew anything about it or not),who always seemed to play for himself & got pouty when he didn't see the ball enough(Bavaro was an ultimate team player & as long as the Giants won,his statistics were unimportant).Very simply,there is no comparison!
Bavaro  
CowboyHaters : 5/9/2021 12:13 pm : link
every single time. Bavaro was the consummate team player and Shockey was a diva.
Not sure he got any votes above but I would go with  
SomeFan : 5/9/2021 9:30 pm : link
Bavaro

/above is sarcasm and I did not read responses.
If there ever were  
The Jake : 5/10/2021 3:38 pm : link
a BBI entrance exam, this question should be on it.
I'll also add  
The Jake : 5/10/2021 3:40 pm : link
that it would have been closer if Shockey wasn't such a doofus.
RE: I'll also add  
mfsd : 5/10/2021 3:43 pm : link
In comment 15259971 The Jake said:
Quote:
that it would have been closer if Shockey wasn't such a doofus.


100% agree with both your comments. Bavaro without question, but even if you wanted to argue the Shockey side of the equation, the “risk he might do something stupid” factor is a big mark against him anyway
People who did not see the game  
Bill2 : 5/10/2021 5:23 pm : link
Might think it's an exaggeration to say that Bavaro trucking the core of the SF defense was the key to that comeback victory.

It wasn't. It fired up the Giants and brought out great second and third efforts. But more importantly, it just crumbled the air of superiority and deflated the extra from SF.

Their top mouth tough guys ( not just Lott) looked like Lilliputians against Bavaro in that and subsequent runs.

That game was not won on talent or scheme. It was one of the few playoff games won by
a lopsided attitude shift.

As for the question, there isn't one. And I agree that Bob Tucker and Zeke were better than Shockey.

Mort got it exactly right. One was a great talent and one was a great football player
RE: People who did not see the game  
x meadowlander : 5/11/2021 9:18 am : link
In comment 15260066 Bill2 said:
Quote:
Might think it's an exaggeration to say that Bavaro trucking the core of the SF defense was the key to that comeback victory.

It wasn't. It fired up the Giants and brought out great second and third efforts. But more importantly, it just crumbled the air of superiority and deflated the extra from SF.

Their top mouth tough guys ( not just Lott) looked like Lilliputians against Bavaro in that and subsequent runs.

That game was not won on talent or scheme. It was one of the few playoff games won by
a lopsided attitude shift.

As for the question, there isn't one. And I agree that Bob Tucker and Zeke were better than Shockey.

Mort got it exactly right. One was a great talent and one was a great football player
The Bavaro play where he dragged 5 defenders wasn't a playoff game. It was a Monday night game as I recall...
I stand corrected on that  
Bill2 : 5/11/2021 1:46 pm : link
Thank you x
mort's comments seem very salient to me  
gidiefor : Mod : 5/11/2021 7:03 pm : link
Bavaro was the heart of the Giants while he was on the team -he led by example, was one tough SOB, and a great teammate who made the most of every opportunity --- Shockey on the other hand was a heart-breaker, selfish in every aspect of the word, and drove himself off the team because he was a terrible teammate and couldn't stand not being the center of attention
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