than Paye. People keep saying he's not limited to a 3-4 lineman but I'd like to see that before believing it.
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Explain that please
To my eyes, Paye is a lineman. He should be playing right next to Lawrence and Williams. Ideally in a 4-3, but you could play him in a 3-4 as well. Except the Giants don't need to spend a high draft pick at 3-4 defensive line.
Ojulari is a linebacker. He can cover as well. It made a lot more sense in a 3-4 base to go out at get an impact linebacker. Linebackers are the critical component if you're going to play any sort of 34 alignment. We can talk all day about how multiple Graham's defense is, but there was one linebacker on this roster that matters: Martinez. It wasn't enough.
Once the pick shifted down to #20, all bets were off and that should be rather easy and logical to grasp. At #20, there were not a lot of names left from the handful heard, and Toney was not one of them.
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
gotcha...can't argue with the results of getting Ojulari at 50....i think most BBIers would have preferred Ojulari to Paye regardless. I liked Paye a lot. It will be interesting to see if his career is more run defender edge or sack guy edge
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Perhaps they had them rated very close to one another.
as a target at 11, then we passed on him at 20, it seems like he just wasn't a target for NYG
I think they pivoted once they traded back, possibly surprised Toney was still there. I think they knew the EDGE's were going to continue to fall, unlike the WR's.
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Not a reach if the media reports are accurate, Toney was going to get picked shortly after 20 had the NYG passed.
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Let's say they had Toney and Paye rated closely, but they also thought they could get a decent EDGE in the 2nd (like they ended up doing). That plays into the thinking.
I strongly suspect Kwity was in play at 20 but front office thought there was more value in Toney and that they could get an edge later on....there are just so many factors that play into the ultimate selection...Covid had a significant impact on the draft process also...we will know a year or two down the road if out draft strategy was accurate or not...being involved with Kwity showed me what a complicated process this can be with many moving parts and many twists and turns.
I agree. I think they probably had Toney & Paye on the same horizontal line, but felt they could get the Edge in the 2nd round (which they did + a 2022 3rd rounder).
I agree. I think they probably had Toney & Paye on the same horizontal line, but felt they could get the Edge in the 2nd round (which they did + a 2022 3rd rounder).
They handled it brilliantly.
And to be honest, they could have selected Paye and got a good WR in the 2nd. Maybe Paye's age played into it, or maybe they felt Ojalari was definitely going to be there. Or Toney had a slight edge over Paye
didn't even care enough for Ojulari to take him at #42. They traded down and were obviously still OK not getting him.
It’s better not to fall in love with one player. That’s why I loved how the Giants handled this draft. Gettleman said there were 5 players they liked at 42, which is why they felt comfortable dropping 8 spots. It appears Aaron Robinson was one of those players in the conversation at 42 initially.
The trade down worked well, and then the trade up in the 3rd worked well too - Robinson was probably the only player left on the horizontal line at that point. It worked well.
Good points layed out here.
While likely getting boxed out on DeVonta Smith, the manner in which this draft played out for the Giants was so different than in past ones (including recent past ones). It finally seemed as if they created a tiered Draft Board and were actually USING IT the way it should be used based on the trading activity and outcomes. Sometimes moving down and still getting a player leftover in a tier, sometimes moving up when a tier is nearly depleted and not yet our turn and some staying put. And, in the end, netting additional draft collateral for a future year.
This has to be the influence of some of new guys in the room like Judge (maybe O'Brien?), or possibly maturation of existing personnel like Abrams & Pettit. Obviously just guessing but the change is far too apparent to be happenstance.
RE: The Giants don't want players with any Kwit in them.
Quote:
than Paye. People keep saying he's not limited to a 3-4 lineman but I'd like to see that before believing it.
\
Explain that please
To my eyes, Paye is a lineman. He should be playing right next to Lawrence and Williams. Ideally in a 4-3, but you could play him in a 3-4 as well. Except the Giants don't need to spend a high draft pick at 3-4 defensive line.
Ojulari is a linebacker. He can cover as well. It made a lot more sense in a 3-4 base to go out at get an impact linebacker. Linebackers are the critical component if you're going to play any sort of 34 alignment. We can talk all day about how multiple Graham's defense is, but there was one linebacker on this roster that matters: Martinez. It wasn't enough.
gotcha...can't argue with the results of getting Ojulari at 50....i think most BBIers would have preferred Ojulari to Paye regardless. I liked Paye a lot. It will be interesting to see if his career is more run defender edge or sack guy edge
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Quote:
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Perhaps they had them rated very close to one another.
I think they pivoted once they traded back, possibly surprised Toney was still there. I think they knew the EDGE's were going to continue to fall, unlike the WR's.
Quote:
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Not a reach if the media reports are accurate, Toney was going to get picked shortly after 20 had the NYG passed.
Quote:
they just wanted a WR badly with the pick and went in that direction.
The way you word that makes the Giants look poor imo. They wanted a WR badly just screams reach. I hope that wasn’t the case, but if it was I’m a bit disappointed.
Let's say they had Toney and Paye rated closely, but they also thought they could get a decent EDGE in the 2nd (like they ended up doing). That plays into the thinking.
Said a bit differently, Paye could have been of interest to the Giants but it was certainly lower than a lot of other players.
They passed on him twice, there is no doubt about it.
Go GMEN
They handled it brilliantly.
They handled it brilliantly.
And to be honest, they could have selected Paye and got a good WR in the 2nd. Maybe Paye's age played into it, or maybe they felt Ojalari was definitely going to be there. Or Toney had a slight edge over Paye
Quote:
didn't even care enough for Ojulari to take him at #42. They traded down and were obviously still OK not getting him.
It’s better not to fall in love with one player. That’s why I loved how the Giants handled this draft. Gettleman said there were 5 players they liked at 42, which is why they felt comfortable dropping 8 spots. It appears Aaron Robinson was one of those players in the conversation at 42 initially.
The trade down worked well, and then the trade up in the 3rd worked well too - Robinson was probably the only player left on the horizontal line at that point. It worked well.
Good points layed out here.
While likely getting boxed out on DeVonta Smith, the manner in which this draft played out for the Giants was so different than in past ones (including recent past ones). It finally seemed as if they created a tiered Draft Board and were actually USING IT the way it should be used based on the trading activity and outcomes. Sometimes moving down and still getting a player leftover in a tier, sometimes moving up when a tier is nearly depleted and not yet our turn and some staying put. And, in the end, netting additional draft collateral for a future year.
This has to be the influence of some of new guys in the room like Judge (maybe O'Brien?), or possibly maturation of existing personnel like Abrams & Pettit. Obviously just guessing but the change is far too apparent to be happenstance.
good one