Lol, I know but someone posted a Shockey vs Bavaro thread. Bavaro was a freak when “freak” wasn’t a thing back then. A force of nature physically and technically gifted. Offenses back than were more pound and ground. Bavaro was a beast at blocking. Best I ever saw objectively.
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The 07 season wasn't Eli, but the post season was. Our defense did awesome in the playoffs but Eli was really something else. Yes QB's do get too much credit (for better of for worse) but Eli deserved every bit of credit for that '07 playoff run.
Eli turned around his regular season and became efficient in the playoffs, but he threw well below 200 yards a couple games. We don't win if the defense doesn't step up. The defense held all but Dallas(~330) to under 300 yards per game in the playoffs including the what many thought was an unstoppable offense. I'm not trying to take away anything from Eli, but he didn't win those games alone
Well I mean no one does, but I see what your saying.
Elway almost suffered the same fate as Marino. He won back to back SB’s very very late in his career.
I mean look at Rodgers, Favre and Peyton Manning. Amazing QB’s but all three won one SB a piece. Or Jim Kelly, 4 straight SB’s, zero wins.
Winning a SB is a team effort no matter how great your QB is. That’s why you don’t trade three first rounders, etc. to pick up a QB. It guarantees nothing other than being in the playoffs on a regular basis, not SB titles.
Elway almost suffered the same fate as Marino. He won back to back SB’s very very late in his career.
I mean look at Rodgers, Favre and Peyton Manning. Amazing QB’s but all three won one SB a piece. Or Jim Kelly, 4 straight SB’s, zero wins.
Winning a SB is a team effort no matter how great your QB is. That’s why you don’t trade three first rounders, etc. to pick up a QB. It guarantees nothing other than being in the playoffs on a regular basis, not SB titles.
Great point. Not to take away from it but Peyton did win a second one in Denver.
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There were several issues. A fantastic Bills team that went to 4 straight SB’s in his division, never really had a “great” RB in a time where you needed a running game (especially in the playoffs), and the Dolphins were never quite there talent wise on defense.
Elway almost suffered the same fate as Marino. He won back to back SB’s very very late in his career.
I mean look at Rodgers, Favre and Peyton Manning. Amazing QB’s but all three won one SB a piece. Or Jim Kelly, 4 straight SB’s, zero wins.
Winning a SB is a team effort no matter how great your QB is. That’s why you don’t trade three first rounders, etc. to pick up a QB. It guarantees nothing other than being in the playoffs on a regular basis, not SB titles.
Great point. Not to take away from it but Peyton did win a second one in Denver.
Good call, my mistake.
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Were there problems that outweighed his talent?
He wasn't sharing his marijuana cigarettes
Pot maybe was his breakfast. Marino was doing the hard stuff - Coke. Some of the stories in Pitt are legendary about how crazy he was. Not sure when he slowed down, but he was still really heavy into things in the 90's too.
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In comment 15257180 eric2425ny said:
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There were several issues. A fantastic Bills team that went to 4 straight SB’s in his division, never really had a “great” RB in a time where you needed a running game (especially in the playoffs), and the Dolphins were never quite there talent wise on defense.
Elway almost suffered the same fate as Marino. He won back to back SB’s very very late in his career.
I mean look at Rodgers, Favre and Peyton Manning. Amazing QB’s but all three won one SB a piece. Or Jim Kelly, 4 straight SB’s, zero wins.
Winning a SB is a team effort no matter how great your QB is. That’s why you don’t trade three first rounders, etc. to pick up a QB. It guarantees nothing other than being in the playoffs on a regular basis, not SB titles.
Great point. Not to take away from it but Peyton did win a second one in Denver.
Good call, my mistake.
That kinda helps your point actually. The only two QB's to win super bowls with another team where released and picked up by their future team in free agency. They where discarded by their old teams too early. The only other one to have relative success (in super bowl terms) is Montana, and he was traded for next to nothing.
I wouldn’t say Jim McMahon was better than Marino just because he has a ring for instance, but I think there is really something to be said for that 2011 run by Eli— it was the pinnacle of his career and it was a higher peak than anything Marino ever accomplished, and Marino would trade any and every accomplishment he had for a season like that.
JFC.
Marino played football when it was actually a contact sport for the QB. In 1984, led the Fins to a 14-2 record and to the SB. Only to get upended by a great 49ers team led by Montana.
That year Marino threw for 48TDs/17 INTs, 65% completion%, 5K yards, 9 YPA, 9.4 AY/A. And was the league MVP.
He led the league in TDs (next closest player threw for 32), yards, tied for completion %, led in YPA and AY/A, yards per game, rating...whatever you can think of...
The guy was completely ahead of his time.
Eli NEVER sniffed a year like that. JFC.
Bad the talent around him
Let’s see what 2021 brings
And anyone trying to convince themselves that Eli had a single season better than Marino's 1984 season is just nuts.
Why ignore the 1984 stats in which his passing rating was off the charts? How can anyone ignore justifying how amazingly great he was that season?
And anyone trying to convince themselves that Eli had a single season better than Marino's 1984 season is just nuts.
Why ignore the 1984 stats in which his passing rating was off the charts? How can anyone ignore justifying how amazingly great he was that season?
I meant Eli. Those saying ELI are wearing bright blue shades.
JFC.
Marino played football when it was actually a contact sport for the QB. In 1984, led the Fins to a 14-2 record and to the SB. Only to get upended by a great 49ers team led by Montana.
That year Marino threw for 48TDs/17 INTs, 65% completion%, 5K yards, 9 YPA, 9.4 AY/A. And was the league MVP.
He led the league in TDs (next closest player threw for 32), yards, tied for completion %, led in YPA and AY/A, yards per game, rating...whatever you can think of...
The guy was completely ahead of his time.
Eli NEVER sniffed a year like that. JFC.
Hey bw, how are u?
I know you like stats, did you know that prior to 2020 Eli Manning was the only QB in NFL History to throw for 4400+ yards in a season AND win the SB? And he threw for 4933.
Of course Tom Brady threw for 4633 this past season.
Only 8 times a QB passed for 4000+ yards in a season and won the SB.
Also did you know that Rodgers won the SB in the season he tied for the most INTs in his career at 13?
Anyway, not that it means anything, just find these to be some interesting stats and wanted to share.
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had a better 2011 season than any Marino year had??
JFC.
Marino played football when it was actually a contact sport for the QB. In 1984, led the Fins to a 14-2 record and to the SB. Only to get upended by a great 49ers team led by Montana.
That year Marino threw for 48TDs/17 INTs, 65% completion%, 5K yards, 9 YPA, 9.4 AY/A. And was the league MVP.
He led the league in TDs (next closest player threw for 32), yards, tied for completion %, led in YPA and AY/A, yards per game, rating...whatever you can think of...
The guy was completely ahead of his time.
Eli NEVER sniffed a year like that. JFC.
Hey bw, how are u?
I know you like stats, did you know that prior to 2020 Eli Manning was the only QB in NFL History to throw for 4400+ yards in a season AND win the SB? And he threw for 4933.
Of course Tom Brady threw for 4633 this past season.
Only 8 times a QB passed for 4000+ yards in a season and won the SB.
Also did you know that Rodgers won the SB in the season he tied for the most INTs in his career at 13?
Anyway, not that it means anything, just find these to be some interesting stats and wanted to share.
Do these numbers include the playoffs? Just curious.
He played with a top 10 defense for 5 seasons of his career. More then Eli. His defenses were not bad although some Dolphins fans will have you believe that
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In the same class asMarino, not even close. Admitting that doesn’t equate to a lack of appreciation for Eli.
would you rather been a fan of Marino and his awards or Eli and his trophies?
I love being a Giants fan, Eli plays for the Giants. That doesn’t mean I think he s as good as Marino.
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In comment 15257168 joeinpa said:
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In the same class asMarino, not even close. Admitting that doesn’t equate to a lack of appreciation for Eli.
would you rather been a fan of Marino and his awards or Eli and his trophies?
I love being a Giants fan, Eli plays for the Giants. That doesn’t mean I think he s as good as Marino.
If they swapped places, you do not think Marino wins a couple/few super bowls?
Of course we would take Eli's two wins and mediocre career over vs Marino's stellar career and no Super Bowl wins.
Dan Marino had seasons where he was putting up numbers by halftime that most of his peers took a full game to do. He was electric and one of the quickest releases I ever saw.
Eli can show him what a SB ring looks like though.
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In comment 15257171 Thegratefulhead said:
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In comment 15257168 joeinpa said:
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In the same class asMarino, not even close. Admitting that doesn’t equate to a lack of appreciation for Eli.
would you rather been a fan of Marino and his awards or Eli and his trophies?
I love being a Giants fan, Eli plays for the Giants. That doesn’t mean I think he s as good as Marino.
If they swapped places, you do not think Marino wins a couple/few super bowls?
Of course we would take Eli's two wins and mediocre career over vs Marino's stellar career and no Super Bowl wins.
He is going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Is there a special wing in that building where they put the names of the mediocre guys?
He played with a top 10 defense for 5 seasons of his career. More then Eli. His defenses were not bad although some Dolphins fans will have you believe that
He had 5 with 2 being his final 2 years in the league when he was toast and nearing 40. Eli had the same number of top 10 defenses, not less. The point was Marino and the passing game was all the fins had for the overwhelming majority of his career
Pats played like the Giants vs. Bills SB25. 40 mins TOP, 255 yards on the ground
1985 Pats at MIA AFC Title Game - ( New Window )
He is going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Is there a special wing in that building where they put the names of the mediocre guys?
Because we won two super bowls and two crazy good playoff runs. Outside of that, where was he stellar? 2008? that crashed and burned(not his fault, btw). And yes he got screwed with a shitty offensive line, absolutely.
Let you in on something - outside of NYC, Eli is not looked upon favorably. I worked with people all over the country, when we talked football and I talked up Eli they all said, meh....
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He is going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Is there a special wing in that building where they put the names of the mediocre guys?
Because we won two super bowls and two crazy good playoff runs. Outside of that, where was he stellar? 2008? that crashed and burned(not his fault, btw). And yes he got screwed with a shitty offensive line, absolutely.
Let you in on something - outside of NYC, Eli is not looked upon favorably. I worked with people all over the country, when we talked football and I talked up Eli they all said, meh....
That doesn't equate to "mediocre".
Eli will be a HoF'er. That isn't a place for mediocrity. You don't have to exaggerate one way to prop up another player
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He is going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Is there a special wing in that building where they put the names of the mediocre guys?
Because we won two super bowls and two crazy good playoff runs. Outside of that, where was he stellar? 2008? that crashed and burned(not his fault, btw). And yes he got screwed with a shitty offensive line, absolutely.
Let you in on something - outside of NYC, Eli is not looked upon favorably. I worked with people all over the country, when we talked football and I talked up Eli they all said, meh....
All comments that I understand to a reasonable degree. His critics can and will point to certain things that were far from stellar.
But Eli Manning most certainly did not have a mediocre career which is what you posted.
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In comment 15257210 bw in dc said:
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had a better 2011 season than any Marino year had??
JFC.
Marino played football when it was actually a contact sport for the QB. In 1984, led the Fins to a 14-2 record and to the SB. Only to get upended by a great 49ers team led by Montana.
That year Marino threw for 48TDs/17 INTs, 65% completion%, 5K yards, 9 YPA, 9.4 AY/A. And was the league MVP.
He led the league in TDs (next closest player threw for 32), yards, tied for completion %, led in YPA and AY/A, yards per game, rating...whatever you can think of...
The guy was completely ahead of his time.
Eli NEVER sniffed a year like that. JFC.
Hey bw, how are u?
I know you like stats, did you know that prior to 2020 Eli Manning was the only QB in NFL History to throw for 4400+ yards in a season AND win the SB? And he threw for 4933.
Of course Tom Brady threw for 4633 this past season.
Only 8 times a QB passed for 4000+ yards in a season and won the SB.
Also did you know that Rodgers won the SB in the season he tied for the most INTs in his career at 13?
Anyway, not that it means anything, just find these to be some interesting stats and wanted to share.
Do these numbers include the playoffs? Just curious.
Hi Emus,
Only Rodgers's numbers include the playoffs.
In the regular season.
I'll take inconsistent goofy Eli and his 2 amazing SB wins and SB MVP trophies... all day everyday... if I had to choose.
In the regular season.
I'll take inconsistent goofy Eli and his 2 amazing SB wins and SB MVP trophies... all day everyday... if I had to choose.
This. We hear a lot of criticism of QB's who "can't win the big one", hell, we even hear about QB's who actually HAVE won the big one (Rodgers), yet for some reason Marino gets a pass. Sure, he played with some pretty bad defenses most of his career, but he did have half a dozen teams that finished top 10, even top 5, in pts and yds against. The dirty little secret is that Marino didn't play well in those playoff games.
That said, even Eli would probably scoff at comparing him to Marino, BUT Eli did win a SB with the 27 or 28th ranked defense.
It's interesting that you mention that. I read a fascinating book a while back, Hotel Scarface, about a notorious hotel that the coke lords loved to hang out at. There were a couple of allusions to the Dolphins. One was that a prominent dealer who was a Dolphins fan gave away a bunch of coke to Tony Dorsett prior to a Dolphins-Cowboys MNF game in the hopes that he'd be strung out and play poorly....which he did, and the Dolphins won. The other was that one dealer had Mark Duper as a client and friend and basically used him as a celebrity spokeman to bring in customers.
It's a fun read.
What does it it mean to the culture of the team when the QB never misses a game? What does it mean when he plays through a a second degree shoulder separation? Have you had Plantar Fasciitis? If yes, can you imagine playing football with it?
The other was getting coked up and losing the biggest games of his career. Eli won them. It matters. Eli all day, every day. I will take the Superbowl wins over the heartbreaking failures.
Also, Marino admits on many occasions if the play was a run, he just audibled out of it. He bears some responsibility for the failures of his defense. They need to rest. Establishing a running game could have helped his teams close out games.
He wanted the ball in his hands to decide games. He had that, he came up short when it mattered.
There is a divide in sportscasters and players about whether QBs should be rated by championships. Some of us are on one side or the other. This might be one of those grey areas where there is no right or wrong answer but personal preference.
Because we won two super bowls and two crazy good playoff runs. Outside of that, where was he stellar? 2008? that crashed and burned(not his fault, btw). And yes he got screwed with a shitty offensive line, absolutely.
Let you in on something - outside of NYC, Eli is not looked upon favorably. I worked with people all over the country, when we talked football and I talked up Eli they all said, meh....
Eli Manning was definitely not stellar during most of his career, and many will point to his game/Giants decline after those Super Bowls.
But would like to think the Hall of Fame voters are not going to forget his many very good seasons during the early and middle portions of his career that actually go along with those epic moments. He was not mediocre.
Recall Marino has some serious financial issues from bad investments and even fathered a child with a woman he paid off behind the scenes. Not much else.
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He is going to be in the NFL Hall of Fame.
Is there a special wing in that building where they put the names of the mediocre guys?
Because we won two super bowls and two crazy good playoff runs. Outside of that, where was he stellar? 2008? that crashed and burned(not his fault, btw). And yes he got screwed with a shitty offensive line, absolutely.
Let you in on something - outside of NYC, Eli is not looked upon favorably. I worked with people all over the country, when we talked football and I talked up Eli they all said, meh....
They can be used to support an argument or viewpoint, but statistics and metrics are not how you come to a conclusion.
I didn't know that, but guess I'm not surprised. Instead of the Marks Bros., they could've been the Coke Bros.
An old friend of mine is from Pittsburg area and used to run into Marino at parties during his college days. She said he was an asshole (probably not the only star college QB to be one) and the party rumors were true. Obviously the Jets still should've taken him!
What does it it mean to the culture of the team when the QB never misses a game? What does it mean when he plays through a a second degree shoulder separation? Have you had Plantar Fasciitis? If yes, can you imagine playing football with it?
The other was getting coked up and losing the biggest games of his career. Eli won them. It matters. Eli all day, every day. I will take the Superbowl wins over the heartbreaking failures.
Also, Marino admits on many occasions if the play was a run, he just audibled out of it. He bears some responsibility for the failures of his defense. They need to rest. Establishing a running game could have helped his teams close out games.
He wanted the ball in his hands to decide games. He had that, he came up short when it mattered.
Good post, Gratefulhead
btw, wish Bob and Further would come back to our amphitheater. I had tix for last show but he canceled (rumors he needed rehab).
Well, the Jets knew something that the people up here didn't.
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we'll ever get a full recount of it, but I wonder if Marino ever regrets things. Even before some big games, he was often out partying and usually with Clayton and Duper. Don't know if it changes things, but I'd have to think Marino playing coming off a coked-up night would be slightly different from LT doing it
It's interesting that you mention that. I read a fascinating book a while back, Hotel Scarface, about a notorious hotel that the coke lords loved to hang out at. There were a couple of allusions to the Dolphins. One was that a prominent dealer who was a Dolphins fan gave away a bunch of coke to Tony Dorsett prior to a Dolphins-Cowboys MNF game in the hopes that he'd be strung out and play poorly....which he did, and the Dolphins won. The other was that one dealer had Mark Duper as a client and friend and basically used him as a celebrity spokeman to bring in customers.
It's a fun read.
Thanks for the tip on the book. I'm going to look for a copy.
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Obviously the Jets still should've taken him!
Well, the Jets knew something that the people up here didn't.
I saw that video recently. Funny shit.
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In comment 15257259 jomps said:
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In comment 15257210 bw in dc said:
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had a better 2011 season than any Marino year had??
JFC.
Marino played football when it was actually a contact sport for the QB. In 1984, led the Fins to a 14-2 record and to the SB. Only to get upended by a great 49ers team led by Montana.
That year Marino threw for 48TDs/17 INTs, 65% completion%, 5K yards, 9 YPA, 9.4 AY/A. And was the league MVP.
He led the league in TDs (next closest player threw for 32), yards, tied for completion %, led in YPA and AY/A, yards per game, rating...whatever you can think of...
The guy was completely ahead of his time.
Eli NEVER sniffed a year like that. JFC.
Hey bw, how are u?
I know you like stats, did you know that prior to 2020 Eli Manning was the only QB in NFL History to throw for 4400+ yards in a season AND win the SB? And he threw for 4933.
Of course Tom Brady threw for 4633 this past season.
Only 8 times a QB passed for 4000+ yards in a season and won the SB.
Also did you know that Rodgers won the SB in the season he tied for the most INTs in his career at 13?
Anyway, not that it means anything, just find these to be some interesting stats and wanted to share.
Do these numbers include the playoffs? Just curious.
Hi Emus,
Only Rodgers's numbers include the playoffs.
Thanks! Appreciate it.