Sather was President for 18 years and made a single SCF with the best goalie in the league during that time period. If all teams have an equal shot to win a Cup each year, you would actually have higher than 50% odds of winning a Cup over that time period. Add in being gifted an elite goalie and an owner willing to spend, you should have been able to win one.
But look at the Islanders. They made a 23 point improvement going from Doug Weight in '17-18 to Trotz in '18-19 with almost the same roster, and losing a big star in Tavares to boot. The same thing could happen with the Rangers if you replace Quinn with a good coach.
I don't think Quinn is abysmal the way Capuano was. But we can definitely upgrade.
Are very talented but also very soft. They need gritty and some type of enforcer to protect them. They have so many young asesta, some of which need to be used to find the gritty player. Also, the need for a leader, who is the last person to wear the C?
The Rangers are a mess. You need to spend every waking moment trying to fix the situation.
Yours Truly
A Devils & Knicks fan
Lol, I'll be honest I hate the Rangers more than any team but as a Knicks fan I actually feel bad for the Rangers right now because I know the damage Dolan can do.
But look at the Islanders. They made a 23 point improvement going from Doug Weight in '17-18 to Trotz in '18-19 with almost the same roster, and losing a big star in Tavares to boot. The same thing could happen with the Rangers if you replace Quinn with a good coach.
I totally agree. A change on the bench is needed. There will be some very good coaches available. Why they chose to go with a guy with no NHL experience I just can’t understand
“I saw a weakness in the team that was not being addressed and I knew it needed to be,” Dolan told The Post during a telephone interview on Thursday in explaining why he dismissed president John Davidson and general manager Jeff Gorton. “I knew that we were missing a key component to us being a Stanley Cup contender."
Jimmy Dolan, hockey expert.
For real. “I saw a weakness..”. You mean Glen told you about the perceived weakness over the phone while you were in the jacuzzi eating Chateaubriand...spoiled fuck wouldn’t know the difference between the 5 hole and his asshole...
How do you eat cheateaubriand in a jacuzzi? That seems unnecessarily difficult.
I’m surprised to see so much negativity. Pre-lockout, he was a disaster, but he used the lockout effectively, and started building around Jagr. Henrik was not the only reason those teams were good. The trade for McDonagh, getting good productivity out of homegrown talent in Stepan, Zuccarello, Kreider, Miller, Hagelin, Girardi, Sauer (pre-injury), and making some good signings/trades like Prust, Boyle, Pouliot, Stralman, Straka, Nylander, etc. The Nash trade was a good one too, right up until he completely disappeared in the 2015 playoffs. Yeah he made some bad moves, the St. Louis trade, Sandus Ozolinsh, Olli Jokinen, Eric Staal, but every GM who makes a trade at the deadline for a guy like that usually looks great at the time, and it generally doesn’t work out too well in the long run. Looking at some of Sather’s moves, there are definite head scratchers, but to be able to build a competitive team that made the Eastern Conference Finals 3 times in 4 years is hard to do. You can make the claim he was lucky to hit on Henrik, but you can also say that Gorton has fallen into Kakko, Lafreniere, Fox, Panarin, and Trouba. Gorton also made some pretty terrible trades, but like Sather, I think his overall body of work has been solid. We’ll see if Drury can pick up where he left off. Regarding Sather though, I think you have to give him credit for adapting after the lockout.
I’m surprised to see so much negativity. Pre-lockout, he was a disaster, but he used the lockout effectively, and started building around Jagr. Henrik was not the only reason those teams were good. The trade for McDonagh, getting good productivity out of homegrown talent in Stepan, Zuccarello, Kreider, Miller, Hagelin, Girardi, Sauer (pre-injury), and making some good signings/trades like Prust, Boyle, Pouliot, Stralman, Straka, Nylander, etc. The Nash trade was a good one too, right up until he completely disappeared in the 2015 playoffs. Yeah he made some bad moves, the St. Louis trade, Sandus Ozolinsh, Olli Jokinen, Eric Staal, but every GM who makes a trade at the deadline for a guy like that usually looks great at the time, and it generally doesn’t work out too well in the long run. Looking at some of Sather’s moves, there are definite head scratchers, but to be able to build a competitive team that made the Eastern Conference Finals 3 times in 4 years is hard to do. You can make the claim he was lucky to hit on Henrik, but you can also say that Gorton has fallen into Kakko, Lafreniere, Fox, Panarin, and Trouba. Gorton also made some pretty terrible trades, but like Sather, I think his overall body of work has been solid. We’ll see if Drury can pick up where he left off. Regarding Sather though, I think you have to give him credit for adapting after the lockout.
Correction: Nash was a good trade right up until he disappeared in the 2014 playoffs, not 2015. Though he didn’t really do much in either run.
they don't need "enforcers" as much as they need to mix
some north-south types in with what they have now. Look at those Islander games. Panarin, Mika and most of the forwards were content to just flit around the perimeter. Nobody goes to the net, nobody willing to stick his nose in and get dirty.
I agree that Quinn needs to go. He's not respected by top players. There was a column by Brooks last week about how Panarin, Mika and the rest of the top 6 refuse to heed him re the above, insist their way is best. It is against the Devils, not the Islanders.
with Drury being promoted. He's considered one of the rising front office stars in the league and has been apart of the rebuild so hopefully he's not doing anything crazy with moving the core young players. I do think some of the second tier guys will be moved. I wonder if Chytil's days are numbered, especially if they're looking to get a bit tougher to play against.
is still shocking to me. Gorton to Drury may end up being an upgrade. But there has to be more to the story with JD being shown the door. Did Dolan want Gorton gone and JD pushed back so he sent them both out? I feel badly for him if so, given his ties to the franchise. This remains a very bizarre turn of events
RE: People are upset with Trouba because of that, but also
What galls me most about all of this craziness is that the things Dolan's yammering on about point to coaching as the problem more than anything, yet I'm certain David Quinn will be back next season. As someone commented at BSB:
Quote:
Ladies And Gentleman, Your 2020-2021 New York Rangers:
Alexis Lafreniere received the lowest average TOI of ANY rookie #1 Overall selection NHL player this CENTURY
Colin Blackwell received more average TOI than both Lafreniere and Filip Chytil
Blackwell spent 22 more minutes on the Power Play, and 45 more minutes at even strength than Chytil.
Chytil and Brett Howden had nearly identical overall TOI numbers
Chytil received fewer average TOI than any other season throughout his first 4 years in the NHL
Lafreniere, Chytil, and Kaapo Kakko combined for 13 fewer minutes of Total Power Play ice time than Ryan Strome
Lafreniere and Chytil didn’t register a SINGLE Power Play Point between them the entire season
Kakko’s average TOI this year was practically identical to his rookie season
The Rangers blew 3rd period leads on at least 6 separate occasions that resulted in a loss
The Rangers were shut-out as many times as the Buffalo Sabres were
Julien Gauthier was a healthy scratch 25 times
As of this writing David Quinn still has a job, while the Teams GM and President have already been fired.
To draw long term conclusions from the Covid modified schedule is stupid. They didn’t play anything like a normal schedule. Plus, Zibanejad (sp?) had a horrible start and Panarin missed all those games going back to Russia and Shestarin (sp.) missed time with an injury. And, they were not that far from the playoffs in the toughest division. They are an ascending team with hopes for a supe4 bright future considering the talented youth on the roster and in the minors. I also think the roster was set up to minimize damage from the upcoming expansion. If you want to add toughness, that’s doable without a major restructure that will set back a tremendous amount of progress made so far.
RE: Trading for Eichel would be such a Rangers move
I’m surprised to see so much negativity. Pre-lockout, he was a disaster, but he used the lockout effectively, and started building around Jagr. Henrik was not the only reason those teams were good. The trade for McDonagh, getting good productivity out of homegrown talent in Stepan, Zuccarello, Kreider, Miller, Hagelin, Girardi, Sauer (pre-injury), and making some good signings/trades like Prust, Boyle, Pouliot, Stralman, Straka, Nylander, etc. The Nash trade was a good one too, right up until he completely disappeared in the 2015 playoffs. Yeah he made some bad moves, the St. Louis trade, Sandus Ozolinsh, Olli Jokinen, Eric Staal, but every GM who makes a trade at the deadline for a guy like that usually looks great at the time, and it generally doesn’t work out too well in the long run. Looking at some of Sather’s moves, there are definite head scratchers, but to be able to build a competitive team that made the Eastern Conference Finals 3 times in 4 years is hard to do. You can make the claim he was lucky to hit on Henrik, but you can also say that Gorton has fallen into Kakko, Lafreniere, Fox, Panarin, and Trouba. Gorton also made some pretty terrible trades, but like Sather, I think his overall body of work has been solid. We’ll see if Drury can pick up where he left off. Regarding Sather though, I think you have to give him credit for adapting after the lockout.
Correction: Nash was a good trade right up until he disappeared in the 2014 playoffs, not 2015. Though he didn’t really do much in either run.
Reasonable, rational take and I’ll admit I’m no fan of Sather’s.
I agree with that but they need something. I mean I love watching them play, very talented and the passing is crazy good. So, what is it? North, south, gritty, a leader?
I agree with that but they need something. I mean I love watching them play, very talented and the passing is crazy good. So, what is it? North, south, gritty, a leader?
I don't think it's one or the other, just blending talent. can't have all the same type players. I think they have talent, but too much of the same style. And I also think that Quinn is in over his head. JD probably recognized all of this but who knows what really happened there.
No matter how talented these prospects are, it often takes them a season or more to acclimate to a pro style game. Particularly European players.
The blue line is incredibly young at the moment. Super skilled but also super small. I think we're going to end up packaging at least one of the offensive defenseman. You can only have so many PP points and they need to add size there.
The myth that Dolan was hands off with the Rangers is
exactly that. He was never hands off. It just wasn't a big story in the media. The Rangers were competitive most of the time and even a Cup contender for a short time while the Knicks were a national laughing stock. The entire rebuild plan and "letter" was all Dolan and now here we are.
I'm rooting for Drury. He's always been one of the good guys, a local guy and NY sports fan. I'm hoping he can make a few Butch Goring trades because the Rangers have a very talented group of players but they'll never win a Cup with this group as it is. Including the players in the pipeline.
Dolan compared Drury to Brian Cashman. Let's hope not. Let's hope he's more Gene Michael who, with apologies to Lou Lamoriello, was probably the best GM of the last 30 years and one of his great talents was to know which prospects to keep and which ones to use as trade chips.
Hopefully Quinn is done after the next game. All this talk about culture and locker rooms should be on him but it's possible Dolan sided with Drury and Quinn over JD and Gorton with Sather shoving the latter two out the door. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Trotz vs Quinn is a not a fair fight and one I hope we don't have to keep watching.
neck checks out I'd trade for him if I were the Rangers (depending on the trade).
Otherwise they may as well trade Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider, and Trouba and start rebuilding again. Because what are you waiting for? Hoping Chytil becomes Eichel? He's a top 10/15 center in the league - the hardest position to find.
Eichel and Zib would be 1C/2C - interchangeably and both lethal on the PP.
With Trouba, Fox, Miller and maybe Lundqvist you have 4 really good of your top 6 D. Schneider in the wings. Lindgren, Hajek for depth or add depth.
After an Eichel trade the Rangers are basically adding parts to finish off the roster at that point to be a contender.
the neck checking out is a big deal, but Eichel is absolutely 100% worth acquiring IMO.
Especially if it *only* cost something like Strome, Buchnevich, Georgiev, and a 1st round pick - maybe throw in a top 5 prospect too.
is weighing in more. I don't see any upside in that.
I'm not terribly optimistic, but I'm very eager to see what direction Drury heads in. Making a few moves to consolidate some of the asset stockpile they put together isn't foolish in principle. But, like all things, it will be about the specific moves....and we have plenty of bad experiences in seeing them haphazardly chase after the shiny toys.
As far as the toughness stuff, I hope they don't over-react that way on the roster construction, but I can't disagree too much with the premise that having zero skilled grit / enforcement has gone on too long. We've all seen it and lamented it ad nauseum over the past number of years. None of us want to watch a band of unskilled goons roaming around making dirty plays. There's surely a balance that needs to be struck, and I think they've missed badly on the other side of that balance for years running. (And to be clear, this component surely doesn't rise to the level of 'Davidson-needs-to-be-fired-for-this' IMO)
hoya, good balanced post, reflects where I am at.
Big trades coming? Even though it's at our weakest position, I'd let Chytil go. Someone above was singing his praises, with reservations, and one of those that should have been added: he doesn't finish. I love his burst, he just sweeps by d-men, but either loses the handle or doesn't muscle in hard enough to force GK to over commit. And, yeah, we are weak on draws.
Kravtsov: don't touch him, he's a sniper who will be all the more valued when Pararin is done; he's only begun to feel his game.
Lundvist: I'd hate to move him, so much upside, yet we are loaded.
KK: maybe, but I'd like to see what he's capable of under a different guy behind the bench, which applies to the kids across the board.
neck checks out I'd trade for him if I were the Rangers (depending on the trade).
Otherwise they may as well trade Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider, and Trouba and start rebuilding again. Because what are you waiting for? Hoping Chytil becomes Eichel? He's a top 10/15 center in the league - the hardest position to find.
Eichel and Zib would be 1C/2C - interchangeably and both lethal on the PP.
With Trouba, Fox, Miller and maybe Lundqvist you have 4 really good of your top 6 D. Schneider in the wings. Lindgren, Hajek for depth or add depth.
After an Eichel trade the Rangers are basically adding parts to finish off the roster at that point to be a contender.
the neck checking out is a big deal, but Eichel is absolutely 100% worth acquiring IMO.
Especially if it *only* cost something like Strome, Buchnevich, Georgiev, and a 1st round pick - maybe throw in a top 5 prospect too.
Rangers need to line up their window with Laf/Kakko's primes. Assume that begins in their 4th and 5th years.
What do you do with Zibanejad? If you trade for Eichel, I think you try to sign Zibanejad for 4/5 years at big AAV. You can't go longer.
You can get rid of Trouba in a deal in 2024. He should still be tradeable then. Kreider moves to a limited NMC in 2024 as well. So they'll have some flexibility but might have to package assets to get rid of them. Don't know yet.
They're actually not in a bad cap position. Eichel makes things tighter but they're do-able. You can bridge a bunch of the young guys for a while.
I think the gap between the best and tenth best team in the league is as small as ever. Would you be shocked if any of the East teams wins the Cup this year? I wouldn't. They're also all pretty even. A trade for Eichel and growth from the recent first round picks will get them to secondary contender status (below the Avs/Knights/Lightning/Canes/Leafs) and hopefully have a 4-5 year window.
supposedly underlying the firings (I'll phrase it as:) that the Rangers were not currently constructed to be a competitive team come SCP time, not gritty, not tough enough in enough facets, does Eichel really help address that? I've seen his play a bit, great C-man, but in terms of what's supposedly lacking?
LeBrun's article in The Athletic this AM, not much there, only item remotely of interest:
Quote:
Perhaps we should have read more into Drury’s decision not to talk to Pittsburgh earlier this season when the Penguins were so eager to make him part of their GM interview process. No way the Rangers would have made him any promises at the time, I don’t think, but perhaps deep down Drury knew if he stayed patient his time would eventually come in New York.
for still thinking that Trouba might find a way to get back onto his previous trajectory? Obviously not as far along the trajectory, but back in that Top 20 range?
The contract I would not have given out was Kreider, and I wonder if they decide to move Buch rather than give him a similar deal.
The other prospect(s) I'm curious about is would they move Kravtsov or Kakko. I'd hoped to see more from the latter, but also feel the team has not been responding to Quinn for a long time.
Perhaps, Dolan should've pushed for his ouster before the others. Dolan's got shite timing, for sure.
I think Trouba has always been more of a 2/3 than a #1 dman. I think he had a pretty good year but the contract is killer.
I think Kakko is an elite defensive forward. Barkov didn't turn into an offensive force until his third year and then became dominant in years five or six.
If I'm running NYR I only give up Kakko/Kravtsov in a deal for McDavid.
and if were dressed on Tuesday, no way he doesn't have Panarin's back, even if he climbs over the boards to do so. That would have emboldened others, I believe, making this somewhat less of a shit show than this week has become.
It 'felt' last spring, that the team had no alternative but to give Kreider that contract, maybe a bit analogous to reaching for an OL at 11 or elsewhere because of the need even if value does not quite line up.
KK, tough one, as noted, don't let Kravvy out of your sights.
The problem was/is Kreider's ebb and flow tendencies persist, and I think Brooks is on target that the young Rangers have a tendency to follow suit. Mix in what appears to be a collective lack of respect for Quinn, and you've got a young, soft team that remains stuck in gear.
It's going to be interesting, especially with Sather in ears. I had the feeling in his later years he made a lot of moves in the hopes he would hit more than he would miss.
veteran coach to come in and challenge these young guys. Maybe mix in a vet player or two with some jam and we might be in business. Apparently, there is a major philosophical disconnect between Quinn and the top line stars. No bueno. I don't discount the team's performance when Quinn was home dealing with the 'vid. They looked like they were free to play their particular style and they flourished. Unfortunately, Quinn definitely gets another year with his buddy at the helm. But when (not if) they underperform next year, he's got to get the hook. Dolan and Sather's meathooks into this team will lead to nothing but frustration for us fans who have seen this underwhelming movie before.
from my very none expert hockey eyes. Find a two way center with some size and nasty (trust me I know how rare they are) and put those two on his right and left and that will be one hell of a line in a year or two.
I think Lafrenière, Fox, Miller and Igor should be untouchable too. Everyone else I would listen if asked in the right deal.
They have more players than spots on the roster and in the pipeline. Do a few 3 for 1's if needed.
I know this won't be popular or agreed with but I don't want the Rangers to resign Mika. Only because of the cap. It might be a terrible decision. Yes I know how weak they are up the middle. I still would let him walk and that might be the plan if they make the Buffalo trade.
RE: RE: Trading for Eichel would be such a Rangers move
It would reek of Dolan and Sather. Eichel is young and an incredible talent, but his cap is ridiculous and he's coming off neck surgery.
I just hope Dolan doesn't force Drury's hand like he did with Walsh's when the Knicks traded for Melo.
It's actually how the Rangers have traditionally done things. Which is why they have 1 Cup in 81 years.
Correct. It would basically be acquiring Eric Lindros, Pavel Bure...except Eichel is much younger than those guys.
Nicholls, Marcel Dionne, Bobby Carpenter, Beck, Espo, Jacques Plante, Gene Carr. We could go on. I'm sure if my dad were still alive I could get more names LOL.
Not for nothing, but Chris Drury and Patrick Roy were teammates and Roy is looking to get back into coaching. Probably nothing, but worth potentially keeping an eye on if we move on from Quinn. Link - ( New Window )
supposedly underlying the firings (I'll phrase it as:) that the Rangers were not currently constructed to be a competitive team come SCP time, not gritty, not tough enough in enough facets, does Eichel really help address that? I've seen his play a bit, great C-man, but in terms of what's supposedly lacking?
LeBrun's article in The Athletic this AM, not much there, only item remotely of interest:
Quote:
Perhaps we should have read more into Drury’s decision not to talk to Pittsburgh earlier this season when the Penguins were so eager to make him part of their GM interview process. No way the Rangers would have made him any promises at the time, I don’t think, but perhaps deep down Drury knew if he stayed patient his time would eventually come in New York.
no, it doesn't address grit but it makes the team better and IMO that is the goal but they do need to add some sand paper and grit IS NOT expensive. You get rid of your Blackwell's, Di Guisseppe's, etc. basically AHL players, and replace them with gritty vets.
The Canadiens added Corey Perry for 750k. Leafs added Wayne Simmonds for $1.5M.
They don't come much more gritty than Perry and Simmonds.
Not saying the Habs are a model to follow, but most teams with youth, like the Canadiens, or finesse like the Leafs, add players like that to protect them - before it was Nate Thompson or Dale Wiese (ex-Ranger).
Habs also have massive D. No one wants to fight Shea Weber (though he's surprisingly not very good at it) or Joel Edmunson or Ben Chiarot or even Jeff Petry. Rangers don't have toughness up front or on the blue line. It really was a blind spot I guess. I don't think it's why they lost games, but clearly there was an effect.
You can add grit many ways - bottom 6 and bottom D pair is typically where you look, and it doesn't mean meat head who can't skate, it just means a guy who instead of being a hard worker like Blackwell, is a tough, nasty SOB like Wayne Simmonds or Corey Perry.
RE: I think all of you are far too eager to deal Buchnevich
He's arguably the best two-way forward on the team. Would have been a 60+ point scorer had this been a full season and played excellent defense.
Not all of us, I'm in your camp, have been all season. It took him 'til his 3rd/4th year to become an effective, two-way guy, and he doesn't back down from the hard work to be done along the boards, behind the net. His first two years he sometimes seemed a deer in the headlights, NHL game a bit too big, but he grew. So, pulling the plug on Gorton's and JD's 'culture' or way seems very short-sighted, as one has to allow growth curves for others. Not to say the team doesn't need more balance across the roster: would Gorton/JD have resisted that? Difficult to believe they didn't see it and wouldn't have acted on it.
is an RFA, the Rangers need to make a decision on him.
bridge deal - 2-3 years at 5-6M per season.
or a LT deal.
or you package his rights in a trade
I'd include him in a trade for Eichel, but I wouldn't give him away for no reason.
Looking back I think the biggest mistake the prior regime made was Kreider.
And I get it, when he's on his game he's a force, but he's so inconsistent would have been better off trading him at the deadline.
But Kreider + Strome money is more Eichel money by $1M and I'll take the Eichel side of that all day of course Strome isn't signed LT, but the math works.
People complain about Trouba, but sure he can improve and maybe a slight overpay, but I read the same complaints about Trouba as I do about most teams top pair D who play the hard minutes.
The Kreider contract is bad and bad luck with timing
I think if the Rangers knew they were going to draft wings #2 & #1 they would have traded him or let him leave. Next year or certainly the year after he needs to be on the 3rd line and the second PP at most. Kakko & Lafrenière need much more PP time.
But look at the Islanders. They made a 23 point improvement going from Doug Weight in '17-18 to Trotz in '18-19 with almost the same roster, and losing a big star in Tavares to boot. The same thing could happen with the Rangers if you replace Quinn with a good coach.
I totally agree. A change on the bench is needed. There will be some very good coaches available. Why they chose to go with a guy with no NHL experience I just can’t understand
It's clear that you don't understand. Mot hockey fans don't.
In comment 15259026 Nomad Crow on the Madison said:
Quote:
he is supposed to be a goal scorer. He has scored 2 goals in 47 games. And you are surprised he has been scratched?
Well, when he does play, he plays on the bottom-6 and Quinn doesn't play him consistently in any game. In fact, Gauthier had the lowest TOI per game (I know, make fun of me if you want) this season of any Ranger. ANY RANGER THIS SEASON, including Lemieux, Howden, Gettinger, Di Giuseppe, Brodzinski, etc.
Anyone can see that he's dripping with potential. Players that big with his skill and skating don't grow on trees. I'd not only protect him in the expansion draft, but I wouldn't even look to trade him because I'd like to see how a new coach would handle his development. The talent for Gauthier is there. The IQ or the toughness may not be, but he's the prime example of someone who could use a new head coach to help him develop.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Rangers pull the plug on him, but I really hope they don't. Link - ( New Window )
Sather was a total failure here.
I don't think Quinn is abysmal the way Capuano was. But we can definitely upgrade.
Yours Truly
A Devils & Knicks fan
Yours Truly
A Devils & Knicks fan
Lol, I'll be honest I hate the Rangers more than any team but as a Knicks fan I actually feel bad for the Rangers right now because I know the damage Dolan can do.
I totally agree. A change on the bench is needed. There will be some very good coaches available. Why they chose to go with a guy with no NHL experience I just can’t understand
Quote:
“I saw a weakness in the team that was not being addressed and I knew it needed to be,” Dolan told The Post during a telephone interview on Thursday in explaining why he dismissed president John Davidson and general manager Jeff Gorton. “I knew that we were missing a key component to us being a Stanley Cup contender."
Jimmy Dolan, hockey expert.
For real. “I saw a weakness..”. You mean Glen told you about the perceived weakness over the phone while you were in the jacuzzi eating Chateaubriand...spoiled fuck wouldn’t know the difference between the 5 hole and his asshole...
How do you eat cheateaubriand in a jacuzzi? That seems unnecessarily difficult.
Correction: Nash was a good trade right up until he disappeared in the 2014 playoffs, not 2015. Though he didn’t really do much in either run.
I agree that Quinn needs to go. He's not respected by top players. There was a column by Brooks last week about how Panarin, Mika and the rest of the top 6 refuse to heed him re the above, insist their way is best. It is against the Devils, not the Islanders.
What galls me most about all of this craziness is that the things Dolan's yammering on about point to coaching as the problem more than anything, yet I'm certain David Quinn will be back next season. As someone commented at BSB:
Quote:
Ladies And Gentleman, Your 2020-2021 New York Rangers:
Alexis Lafreniere received the lowest average TOI of ANY rookie #1 Overall selection NHL player this CENTURY
Colin Blackwell received more average TOI than both Lafreniere and Filip Chytil
Blackwell spent 22 more minutes on the Power Play, and 45 more minutes at even strength than Chytil.
Chytil and Brett Howden had nearly identical overall TOI numbers
Chytil received fewer average TOI than any other season throughout his first 4 years in the NHL
Lafreniere, Chytil, and Kaapo Kakko combined for 13 fewer minutes of Total Power Play ice time than Ryan Strome
Lafreniere and Chytil didn’t register a SINGLE Power Play Point between them the entire season
Kakko’s average TOI this year was practically identical to his rookie season
The Rangers blew 3rd period leads on at least 6 separate occasions that resulted in a loss
The Rangers were shut-out as many times as the Buffalo Sabres were
Julien Gauthier was a healthy scratch 25 times
As of this writing David Quinn still has a job, while the Teams GM and President have already been fired.
great post. tells the story
I just hope Dolan doesn't force Drury's hand like he did with Walsh's when the Knicks traded for Melo.
I just hope Dolan doesn't force Drury's hand like he did with Walsh's when the Knicks traded for Melo.
It's actually how the Rangers have traditionally done things. Which is why they have 1 Cup in 81 years.
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I’m surprised to see so much negativity. Pre-lockout, he was a disaster, but he used the lockout effectively, and started building around Jagr. Henrik was not the only reason those teams were good. The trade for McDonagh, getting good productivity out of homegrown talent in Stepan, Zuccarello, Kreider, Miller, Hagelin, Girardi, Sauer (pre-injury), and making some good signings/trades like Prust, Boyle, Pouliot, Stralman, Straka, Nylander, etc. The Nash trade was a good one too, right up until he completely disappeared in the 2015 playoffs. Yeah he made some bad moves, the St. Louis trade, Sandus Ozolinsh, Olli Jokinen, Eric Staal, but every GM who makes a trade at the deadline for a guy like that usually looks great at the time, and it generally doesn’t work out too well in the long run. Looking at some of Sather’s moves, there are definite head scratchers, but to be able to build a competitive team that made the Eastern Conference Finals 3 times in 4 years is hard to do. You can make the claim he was lucky to hit on Henrik, but you can also say that Gorton has fallen into Kakko, Lafreniere, Fox, Panarin, and Trouba. Gorton also made some pretty terrible trades, but like Sather, I think his overall body of work has been solid. We’ll see if Drury can pick up where he left off. Regarding Sather though, I think you have to give him credit for adapting after the lockout.
Correction: Nash was a good trade right up until he disappeared in the 2014 playoffs, not 2015. Though he didn’t really do much in either run.
Reasonable, rational take and I’ll admit I’m no fan of Sather’s.
I don't think it's one or the other, just blending talent. can't have all the same type players. I think they have talent, but too much of the same style. And I also think that Quinn is in over his head. JD probably recognized all of this but who knows what really happened there.
The blue line is incredibly young at the moment. Super skilled but also super small. I think we're going to end up packaging at least one of the offensive defenseman. You can only have so many PP points and they need to add size there.
I'm rooting for Drury. He's always been one of the good guys, a local guy and NY sports fan. I'm hoping he can make a few Butch Goring trades because the Rangers have a very talented group of players but they'll never win a Cup with this group as it is. Including the players in the pipeline.
Dolan compared Drury to Brian Cashman. Let's hope not. Let's hope he's more Gene Michael who, with apologies to Lou Lamoriello, was probably the best GM of the last 30 years and one of his great talents was to know which prospects to keep and which ones to use as trade chips.
Hopefully Quinn is done after the next game. All this talk about culture and locker rooms should be on him but it's possible Dolan sided with Drury and Quinn over JD and Gorton with Sather shoving the latter two out the door. Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Trotz vs Quinn is a not a fair fight and one I hope we don't have to keep watching.
Otherwise they may as well trade Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider, and Trouba and start rebuilding again. Because what are you waiting for? Hoping Chytil becomes Eichel? He's a top 10/15 center in the league - the hardest position to find.
Eichel and Zib would be 1C/2C - interchangeably and both lethal on the PP.
With Trouba, Fox, Miller and maybe Lundqvist you have 4 really good of your top 6 D. Schneider in the wings. Lindgren, Hajek for depth or add depth.
After an Eichel trade the Rangers are basically adding parts to finish off the roster at that point to be a contender.
the neck checking out is a big deal, but Eichel is absolutely 100% worth acquiring IMO.
Especially if it *only* cost something like Strome, Buchnevich, Georgiev, and a 1st round pick - maybe throw in a top 5 prospect too.
I'm not terribly optimistic, but I'm very eager to see what direction Drury heads in. Making a few moves to consolidate some of the asset stockpile they put together isn't foolish in principle. But, like all things, it will be about the specific moves....and we have plenty of bad experiences in seeing them haphazardly chase after the shiny toys.
As far as the toughness stuff, I hope they don't over-react that way on the roster construction, but I can't disagree too much with the premise that having zero skilled grit / enforcement has gone on too long. We've all seen it and lamented it ad nauseum over the past number of years. None of us want to watch a band of unskilled goons roaming around making dirty plays. There's surely a balance that needs to be struck, and I think they've missed badly on the other side of that balance for years running. (And to be clear, this component surely doesn't rise to the level of 'Davidson-needs-to-be-fired-for-this' IMO)
Big trades coming? Even though it's at our weakest position, I'd let Chytil go. Someone above was singing his praises, with reservations, and one of those that should have been added: he doesn't finish. I love his burst, he just sweeps by d-men, but either loses the handle or doesn't muscle in hard enough to force GK to over commit. And, yeah, we are weak on draws.
Kravtsov: don't touch him, he's a sniper who will be all the more valued when Pararin is done; he's only begun to feel his game.
Lundvist: I'd hate to move him, so much upside, yet we are loaded.
KK: maybe, but I'd like to see what he's capable of under a different guy behind the bench, which applies to the kids across the board.
Otherwise they may as well trade Zibanejad, Panarin, Kreider, and Trouba and start rebuilding again. Because what are you waiting for? Hoping Chytil becomes Eichel? He's a top 10/15 center in the league - the hardest position to find.
Eichel and Zib would be 1C/2C - interchangeably and both lethal on the PP.
With Trouba, Fox, Miller and maybe Lundqvist you have 4 really good of your top 6 D. Schneider in the wings. Lindgren, Hajek for depth or add depth.
After an Eichel trade the Rangers are basically adding parts to finish off the roster at that point to be a contender.
the neck checking out is a big deal, but Eichel is absolutely 100% worth acquiring IMO.
Especially if it *only* cost something like Strome, Buchnevich, Georgiev, and a 1st round pick - maybe throw in a top 5 prospect too.
Rangers need to line up their window with Laf/Kakko's primes. Assume that begins in their 4th and 5th years.
What do you do with Zibanejad? If you trade for Eichel, I think you try to sign Zibanejad for 4/5 years at big AAV. You can't go longer.
You can get rid of Trouba in a deal in 2024. He should still be tradeable then. Kreider moves to a limited NMC in 2024 as well. So they'll have some flexibility but might have to package assets to get rid of them. Don't know yet.
They're actually not in a bad cap position. Eichel makes things tighter but they're do-able. You can bridge a bunch of the young guys for a while.
I think the gap between the best and tenth best team in the league is as small as ever. Would you be shocked if any of the East teams wins the Cup this year? I wouldn't. They're also all pretty even. A trade for Eichel and growth from the recent first round picks will get them to secondary contender status (below the Avs/Knights/Lightning/Canes/Leafs) and hopefully have a 4-5 year window.
LeBrun's article in The Athletic this AM, not much there, only item remotely of interest:
The other prospect(s) I'm curious about is would they move Kravtsov or Kakko. I'd hoped to see more from the latter, but also feel the team has not been responding to Quinn for a long time.
Perhaps, Dolan should've pushed for his ouster before the others. Dolan's got shite timing, for sure.
I think Kakko is an elite defensive forward. Barkov didn't turn into an offensive force until his third year and then became dominant in years five or six.
If I'm running NYR I only give up Kakko/Kravtsov in a deal for McDavid.
It 'felt' last spring, that the team had no alternative but to give Kreider that contract, maybe a bit analogous to reaching for an OL at 11 or elsewhere because of the need even if value does not quite line up.
KK, tough one, as noted, don't let Kravvy out of your sights.
It's going to be interesting, especially with Sather in ears. I had the feeling in his later years he made a lot of moves in the hopes he would hit more than he would miss.
I think Lafrenière, Fox, Miller and Igor should be untouchable too. Everyone else I would listen if asked in the right deal.
They have more players than spots on the roster and in the pipeline. Do a few 3 for 1's if needed.
I know this won't be popular or agreed with but I don't want the Rangers to resign Mika. Only because of the cap. It might be a terrible decision. Yes I know how weak they are up the middle. I still would let him walk and that might be the plan if they make the Buffalo trade.
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It would reek of Dolan and Sather. Eichel is young and an incredible talent, but his cap is ridiculous and he's coming off neck surgery.
I just hope Dolan doesn't force Drury's hand like he did with Walsh's when the Knicks traded for Melo.
It's actually how the Rangers have traditionally done things. Which is why they have 1 Cup in 81 years.
Correct. It would basically be acquiring Eric Lindros, Pavel Bure...except Eichel is much younger than those guys.
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In comment 15257534 Anakim said:
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It would reek of Dolan and Sather. Eichel is young and an incredible talent, but his cap is ridiculous and he's coming off neck surgery.
I just hope Dolan doesn't force Drury's hand like he did with Walsh's when the Knicks traded for Melo.
It's actually how the Rangers have traditionally done things. Which is why they have 1 Cup in 81 years.
Correct. It would basically be acquiring Eric Lindros, Pavel Bure...except Eichel is much younger than those guys.
Nicholls, Marcel Dionne, Bobby Carpenter, Beck, Espo, Jacques Plante, Gene Carr. We could go on. I'm sure if my dad were still alive I could get more names LOL.
Eichel's coming off neck surgery. That has to be concerning.
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LeBrun's article in The Athletic this AM, not much there, only item remotely of interest:
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Perhaps we should have read more into Drury’s decision not to talk to Pittsburgh earlier this season when the Penguins were so eager to make him part of their GM interview process. No way the Rangers would have made him any promises at the time, I don’t think, but perhaps deep down Drury knew if he stayed patient his time would eventually come in New York.
no, it doesn't address grit but it makes the team better and IMO that is the goal but they do need to add some sand paper and grit IS NOT expensive. You get rid of your Blackwell's, Di Guisseppe's, etc. basically AHL players, and replace them with gritty vets.
The Canadiens added Corey Perry for 750k. Leafs added Wayne Simmonds for $1.5M.
They don't come much more gritty than Perry and Simmonds.
Not saying the Habs are a model to follow, but most teams with youth, like the Canadiens, or finesse like the Leafs, add players like that to protect them - before it was Nate Thompson or Dale Wiese (ex-Ranger).
Habs also have massive D. No one wants to fight Shea Weber (though he's surprisingly not very good at it) or Joel Edmunson or Ben Chiarot or even Jeff Petry. Rangers don't have toughness up front or on the blue line. It really was a blind spot I guess. I don't think it's why they lost games, but clearly there was an effect.
You can add grit many ways - bottom 6 and bottom D pair is typically where you look, and it doesn't mean meat head who can't skate, it just means a guy who instead of being a hard worker like Blackwell, is a tough, nasty SOB like Wayne Simmonds or Corey Perry.
bridge deal - 2-3 years at 5-6M per season.
or a LT deal.
or you package his rights in a trade
I'd include him in a trade for Eichel, but I wouldn't give him away for no reason.
Looking back I think the biggest mistake the prior regime made was Kreider.
And I get it, when he's on his game he's a force, but he's so inconsistent would have been better off trading him at the deadline.
But Kreider + Strome money is more Eichel money by $1M and I'll take the Eichel side of that all day of course Strome isn't signed LT, but the math works.
People complain about Trouba, but sure he can improve and maybe a slight overpay, but I read the same complaints about Trouba as I do about most teams top pair D who play the hard minutes.
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But look at the Islanders. They made a 23 point improvement going from Doug Weight in '17-18 to Trotz in '18-19 with almost the same roster, and losing a big star in Tavares to boot. The same thing could happen with the Rangers if you replace Quinn with a good coach.
I totally agree. A change on the bench is needed. There will be some very good coaches available. Why they chose to go with a guy with no NHL experience I just can’t understand
It's clear that you don't understand. Mot hockey fans don't.
Well, when he does play, he plays on the bottom-6 and Quinn doesn't play him consistently in any game. In fact, Gauthier had the lowest TOI per game (I know, make fun of me if you want) this season of any Ranger. ANY RANGER THIS SEASON, including Lemieux, Howden, Gettinger, Di Giuseppe, Brodzinski, etc.
Anyone can see that he's dripping with potential. Players that big with his skill and skating don't grow on trees. I'd not only protect him in the expansion draft, but I wouldn't even look to trade him because I'd like to see how a new coach would handle his development. The talent for Gauthier is there. The IQ or the toughness may not be, but he's the prime example of someone who could use a new head coach to help him develop.
It wouldn't surprise me if the Rangers pull the plug on him, but I really hope they don't.
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Yes, very true. Someone needs to teach him how to use his size.