I had the COVID and was stuck in isolation with lots of time to kill (luckily my symptoms were very mild) so I decided to go back and watch every Giants game a second time, 5 months after the season was over.
To put it bluntly, it was a totally different experience. Make no mistake about it, it was not nearly as fun, but I felt like I was able to be much more objective about performance with the outcomes already determined 5 months ago.
I learned very quickly that I am emotionally attached to the games, the players and the immediate results because that's part of the fun of being a fan during the season. It seemed like work at times (like the ARZ, Clev and Balt games) - BUT I'm glad I did it.
To completely plagiarize Peter King - these are the things I think, I think after rewatching all the games:
1.) The Giants are closer to being good than I previously thought and the reason for that is Joe Judge and his staff. Re-watching the games made it abundantly clear just how bad this roster was. There was very little talent to work with and the coaches seemed to play each game to "keep it close" because they had no shot at dominating anyone on either side of the ball. There was a three game stretch in which they were clearly outclassed after DJ was banged up or missing - The Cardinals game, the Browns game, and the Ravens game. Every other game that they played they had a legit shot at winning with some really terrible players getting significant reps.
2.) Daniel Jones is an enigma to me. Sometimes he looks every bit like an elite QB. He made some great throws into some tight windows to some bad receivers (more on that later). He is a real weapon when he is on the move, especially on designed run plays. I really do think he can be a Super Bowl winning QB - something that I DID not think before. here are the three things that bother me:
a.) Pocket Presence: he took more bad sacks than any other QBs the Giants played last year. He has to have a better understanding of where the pressure is coming from, when to get rid of the ball, and when not to press the issue. Eli had similar issues and he is a HOF. I do think DJ can get better with this.
b.) Protect Himself: make no mistake about it - he is an absolute WEAPON with the ball in his hands, but he took some absolute shots from defenders too frequently. He's not a small guy - it's not like RG3 out there or anything - but man did he get walloped too often for my liking. He's a gamer, which I love, but he was definitely nursing a serious injury after he was hurt in the Cincy game. He was just a different player after that.
c.) Decision Making: He threw some INTs that were not his fault, but he also threw some INTs that were bad and they were at bad times. The INTs at the end of the Bears and Rams games really stick out in my mind. Again, this is something Eli struggled with throughout his career and he got better when his weapons improved b/c not every throw had to be perfect. I think this will get better too.
3.) The Giants WRs stunk. I was completely wrong about this. They had no one that could break a tackle or run away from a defender. They had no one that could create significant separation consistently. There were very few plays in which I felt like a WR really battled to get into the end zone and make a highlight type run after the catch. Slayton is really good against CBs that would be considered JAGS (it was clear he wasn't the same player after the WFT game due to injury). Next year, with Kenny G on the scene - he's going to have a lot of favorable matchups, but he is no WR1. Shep is another enigma - there are times where I think he's a really good slot WR and other times where he goes long stretches and disappears. CJ Board, D. Rattley, Mack, and G. Tate (he had the worst body language of any player I saw) all played significant minutes and they all stink. We could have had BIll Walsh as the OC and he wasn't dialing up any offense with these guys. Garrett is better than many give him credit for.
4.) A healthy Barkley is going to run for 1700 yards and 15 TDS behind this OL. They turned a corner in the 2nd half of the Rams game and were a different group (they were bad in the Cardinals game) after that. Gallman, Morris, Lewis and Freeman left a TON of yards on the table. None of them could make anyone miss at the second level, none of them could break a tackle, and none of them were running away from anyone. The yards they did get were b/c of the offense line. At different points during the season they were really able to push some DLs around.
5.) The defense was the definition of bend but don't break despite having to play some really terrible defenders significant snaps. Bradberry is very good, but teams just stopped throwing in his direction b/c the other guy was just so bad. Yiadom, Lewis and Ballentine cost them a few games early in the year. None of them are good and were targeted A LOT. I think Love and Ryan are very similar players.
6.) LW is a star. I don't understand why people didn't want to pay him. Dalvin is going to be missed, but I'm interested in what A. Johnson can do with more snaps. He flashed quite a bit during the season. THat DL last year was very good - especially in the red zone. The Giants defense in the red zone, as a whole, was very good. Meanwhile, the Giants offense was terrible in the red zone.
7.) Evan Engram was better than I thought. If he could somehow find a way to get more consistent with his hands, he would be a star. He was the only guy on that offense that could get open with any kind of regularity. Garrett really made him the focal point of the offense b/c everyone else was bad. I think with Rudolph on the team next year - he can really be a difference maker because he won't have to run so many stick routes to the marker.
8.) Special teams were a mixed bag - which was a surprise being that Judge is the coach and the Giants special teams had been pretty good recently. Gano was very good. They had some untimely special team lapses which was very disappointing to see.
9.) I hate to say this, but I think the Giants were pretty unlucky last year. There were some crazy plays, ref calls, events that just killed them this year that seemed out of proportion compared to the teams they played. I get super angry when calls go against the Giants in the heat of the battle and my wife loves to poke the bear with comments like, "you wouldn't say that if it were against the Giants". But even watching it later, minus the emotion, it felt disproportionate. The crazy 4th down conversion in the Bears game and the fist Dallas game was riddled with calls the went against the Giants - that's just two that really stuck out in my mind. I guess the old saying that good teams make their own luck is true - the Giants lost a lot of games.
10.) The Giants schedule last year was hard. I am not overlooking the fact that the NFC east was not good...but they are still divisional games. Even when teams are bad, they always play divisional foes differently. Outside their own division, they played only 2 teams that had a losing record - the 49ers and Bengals. That schedule was no joke. It doesn't look like next year is going to be much easier, but they will be battle tested and have proven that they can hang.
If you actually read this far - I really feel like the arrow on this team is pointing up. I loved the draft and FA cycle and think the Giants have put themselves in a good spot moving forward. The optimist in me sees a franchise that has turned the corner.
Well almost all of it. I can't say I agree on the Engram part but I digress :)
In 2021, they need to show us the talent gap is closing and for the young core of the team to begin to play above the X's and O's.
Tate was a shell of himself, Slayton can't be "the guy" and Shep missed time. Outside of that the Ratleys, Macks and Boards didn't have a place on an NFL roster. They weren't just back ups, they were really bad back ups. Pair that with not having a real #1, our best WR Shep missing time and Tate regressing and you have a really bad mix.
Same goes for CB, we found ways to get production out of the likes of Ryan Lewis and Isaac Yiadom for goodness sake. Graham needs way, way more credit for that.
I have never been impressed with Jones's decision making if he has to rapidly go through the reads. His release is average (at best) and he seems to get stuck pulling the trigger. There is a workaround for that - better protection - but I'm not sure this OL is it's current form solves that (yet).
I'm mostly on an island with a few posters on this one, but I think Garrett did a terrific job last year stitching together an offense with the limitations along the OL and Jones. With more options now, I expect he'll add a few more chapters to his playbook.
I have never been impressed with Jones's decision making if he has to rapidly go through the reads. His release is average (at best) and he seems to get stuck pulling the trigger. There is a workaround for that - better protection - but I'm not sure this OL is it's current form solves that (yet).
I'm mostly on an island with a few posters on this one, but I think Garrett did a terrific job last year stitching together an offense with the limitations along the OL and Jones. With more options now, I expect he'll add a few more chapters to his playbook.
It is no different than when they made the decision to keep Eli and thought adding Barkley was enough. I maintain Eli was not the problem, but an absolutely horrendous OL was.
No different than bringing in an OC for the WCO as the answer to poor OL play.
Ultimately, they have yet to put out a decent OL. This will continue to hamper the offense, regardless of the skill level of the rest of the offense. With no time, a young QBs effectiveness will be very limited and his propensity for fumbling will continue to be tested.
The one thing that stuck out to me last year watching this young team struggle was that they appeared to be mentally tough and did not quit even in blowouts, but they were also too slow on both sides of the ball to really compete. To borrow a baseball analogy, the Giants were more akin to a hitter who is a tough out and makes the pitcher work for it every at bat, but not a threat to knock it out of the park on any given pitch. My assessment of the 2021 FA and Draft is that the Giants staff and front office knew they had to increase the speed on both sides of the ball, even if the player was not an exact fit or was joining a crowded position. And boy did they get some speed!
I am cautiously optimistic about 2021, but they really need to stop talking about winning games and start doing it.
The Giants game from week 17 vs Dallas at home last year popped up on my recommendation on YouTube and I forgot they even played that game and ... to be honest, I forgot who even won.
Giants games have been so forgettable over the last 10 years or so that I can never remember which year was what. We've had so many losers on this team that I would have a hard time passing a test was who was on the roster over the last 10 years. But for some reason from 2005-2012 I can remember all the games and everything else, especially 2007. The year they won... duh lol
I remember recently looking at the 2019 schedule and I saw they lost to Chicago on the road and I don't remember that game at all.
Giants stink. Gettleman stinks. Joe judge stinks. Daniel Jones stinks.
Hopefully that upward trajectory comprises of more than 7 wins in a season.
Quoting Dnew, who gave Engram a left-handed compliment - "Garrett really made him the focal point of the offense b/c everyone else was bad"
The Seahawks live with the same situation with DK Metcalf, (who has a better QB throwing to him) will look spectacular one play, then inexplicably bad the next.
To be honest, I don't really know who needs to improve more - Dan Jones or Evan Engram (I suspect Jones).
The Giants game from week 17 vs Dallas at home last year popped up on my recommendation on YouTube and I forgot they even played that game and ... to be honest, I forgot who even won.
Giants games have been so forgettable over the last 10 years or so that I can never remember which year was what. We've had so many losers on this team that I would have a hard time passing a test was who was on the roster over the last 10 years. But for some reason from 2005-2012 I can remember all the games and everything else, especially 2007. The year they won... duh lol
I remember recently looking at the 2019 schedule and I saw they lost to Chicago on the road and I don't remember that game at all.
Giants stink. Gettleman stinks. Joe judge stinks. Daniel Jones stinks.
The Giants game from week 17 vs Dallas at home last year popped up on my recommendation on YouTube and I forgot they even played that game and ... to be honest, I forgot who even won.
Giants games have been so forgettable over the last 10 years or so that I can never remember which year was what. We've had so many losers on this team that I would have a hard time passing a test was who was on the roster over the last 10 years. But for some reason from 2005-2012 I can remember all the games and everything else, especially 2007. The year they won... duh lol
I remember recently looking at the 2019 schedule and I saw they lost to Chicago on the road and I don't remember that game at all.
Giants stink. Gettleman stinks. Joe judge stinks. Daniel Jones stinks.
Umm, have a great weekend?
I'm still confused. You said
Engram - He's the best player on the team
If you're saying Engram was our #1 target last year, I agree (unfortunately, he was), but to say "best player on the team"? Whaaa?
I think the keys to Giants this year are their OL and CB's.
***With that said, the OP is looking at the games thru his Big Blue Tainted Sunglasses.
Dallas and Philly were decimated by injuries. The Giants were lucky for that.
We hear on here many say, they go with the "experts" who say Giants are fine for example with OL - yet then what about Philly not taking the QB? Instead they got the WR that supposedly the Giants wanted and the OG?C that many Giants would have loved to have gotten in rd 2. Their "experts" seem to think their QB is fine, don't they? SO "our guys" are "right" and we dismiss their guys? The team that has basically owned us?
And we hard many on here make mention how well the Giants finished- 5-3. Well Wash finished 5-2. So our 5-3 was "real" and their 5-2 wasn't?
And let's face it- The Giants were lucky to win that 2nd game vs WFT.
The Giants game from week 17 vs Dallas at home last year popped up on my recommendation on YouTube and I forgot they even played that game and ... to be honest, I forgot who even won.
Giants games have been so forgettable over the last 10 years or so that I can never remember which year was what. We've had so many losers on this team that I would have a hard time passing a test was who was on the roster over the last 10 years. But for some reason from 2005-2012 I can remember all the games and everything else, especially 2007. The year they won... duh lol
I remember recently looking at the 2019 schedule and I saw they lost to Chicago on the road and I don't remember that game at all.
Giants stink. Gettleman stinks. Joe judge stinks. Daniel Jones stinks.
Take a deep breath and say Om. Repeat.
If you prefer, say Ohm. (it's hard to resist!)
We hear on here many say, they go with the "experts" who say Giants are fine for example with OL - yet then what about Philly not taking the QB? Instead they got the WR that supposedly the Giants wanted and the OG?C that many Giants would have loved to have gotten in rd 2. Their "experts" seem to think their QB is fine, don't they? SO "our guys" are "right" and we dismiss their guys? The team that has basically owned us?
Their "experts seem to think their QB is fine?" The Eagles wanted Zach Wilson and would have traded up for him if the Jets made that pick available. The Eagles aren't sticking with Hurts because they think he is a franchise QB. They're sticking with him because the QB they wanted was unavailable and they didn't like the others enough. They will draft a QB next year.
You can totally see the difference of the coaching, we finally got the right guy
Needle is finally point up.
If Jones works out, 2022 draft will be loading up on more playmakers
Is your guy trustworthy?
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We hear on here many say, they go with the "experts" who say Giants are fine for example with OL - yet then what about Philly not taking the QB? Instead they got the WR that supposedly the Giants wanted and the OG?C that many Giants would have loved to have gotten in rd 2. Their "experts" seem to think their QB is fine, don't they? SO "our guys" are "right" and we dismiss their guys? The team that has basically owned us?
Their "experts seem to think their QB is fine?" The Eagles wanted Zach Wilson and would have traded up for him if the Jets made that pick available. The Eagles aren't sticking with Hurts because they think he is a franchise QB. They're sticking with him because the QB they wanted was unavailable and they didn't like the others enough. They will draft a QB next year.
Who didn't want Zach Wilson? Please tell me who didn't want him? What kind of a comment is that?
What next blast nearly every team's QB because they wanted Lawrence but didn't get him? I'mean c'mon we've fought before but what kind of a lunatic comment is this about Wilson?
If they were so desperate - you think Macj Noes and Fields are going to suck?
Who didn't want Zach Wilson? Please tell me who didn't want him? What kind of a comment is that?
What next blast nearly every team's QB because they wanted Lawrence but didn't get him? I'mean c'mon we've fought before but what kind of a lunatic comment is this about Wilson?
If they were so desperate - you think Macj Noes and Fields are going to suck?
No one knows what Mac Jones or Fields will be. Right now they are no different then Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen in 2018. Tons of promise, tons of warts, and a whole lot of question marks.
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Who didn't want Zach Wilson? Please tell me who didn't want him? What kind of a comment is that?
What next blast nearly every team's QB because they wanted Lawrence but didn't get him? I'mean c'mon we've fought before but what kind of a lunatic comment is this about Wilson?
If they were so desperate - you think Macj Noes and Fields are going to suck?
No one knows what Mac Jones or Fields will be. Right now they are no different then Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen in 2018. Tons of promise, tons of warts, and a whole lot of question marks.
No one knows about nearly any QB. Did we know about Daniel Jones before he was drafted? But that's why you have scouts and draft boards.
If you think your QB is not good and your draft board shows a very, very good QB - you are going to bypass him when as many are saying that next year isn't so hot?
What position is the most valued in football? And how often is it EVER assured a QB is going to be a lock as a definitive terrific QB?
Yet in your experience you see over-and-over how QB's are drafted ahead of BPA, right? Why do you think?
And juts a fyi with Jay on The Island and I we have had our differences. I think in part that's why he came after me the way he did. He has said on another thread that DJ is a very good analyst- and DJ has Smith at 6 and Fields at 8. Sy has Fields rated 83 (Smith at 87) but Fields as the 2nd rated QB. Another analyst I feel revered around here is Brandy and he has Smith 7 and Fields 8. And when the Bears too Fields it was generally regarded as a super pick.
With all this taken into account were supposed to assume Philly was desperate for QB because they inquired about Zach Wilson? ANd your point about Fields vs Darnold or Rosen how is that any more relevant than the Chiefs drafting Mahomes? They way YOU make it sound it's as though you'll never take a QB after the 1ts few picks because "you can't be certain." That's nonsense in regards how the NFL drafts QB's. YOU should KNOW better TOO. C'mon! I guess Josh Allen shouldn't haven't been taken by the Bills because you reference Darnold and Rosen, right?
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Who didn't want Zach Wilson? Please tell me who didn't want him? What kind of a comment is that?
What next blast nearly every team's QB because they wanted Lawrence but didn't get him? I'mean c'mon we've fought before but what kind of a lunatic comment is this about Wilson?
If they were so desperate - you think Macj Noes and Fields are going to suck?
No one knows what Mac Jones or Fields will be. Right now they are no different then Sam Darnold or Josh Rosen in 2018. Tons of promise, tons of warts, and a whole lot of question marks.
See my post above.
Best player on offense - that's why they targeted him so much and why they featured him on end-arounds etc. Again, they counted on him because he was better than the other choices.
Judge likes him and so does the NFL (coaches and players) -that's why he went to the Pro Bowl.
This year, Galladay & Toney will significantly improve the quality of the offense (and hopefully the O-line and Dan Jones will improve).
Not sure why you are getting so upset about it. Dnew made a good positive post, and he's feeling optimistic. Nothing wrong with that, and I agree 100% with his OP.
I have never been impressed with Jones's decision making if he has to rapidly go through the reads. His release is average (at best) and he seems to get stuck pulling the trigger. There is a workaround for that - better protection - but I'm not sure this OL is it's current form solves that (yet).
I'm mostly on an island with a few posters on this one, but I think Garrett did a terrific job last year stitching together an offense with the limitations along the OL and Jones. With more options now, I expect he'll add a few more chapters to his playbook.
This is fantastic news. The more you tell us that you don’t think Jones will be any good the better we should all feel about him becoming an All Pro. Your evaluation skills are on par with Stan in LA’s batting average of being right about anything.
But I agree with your point below in quotes. But that is what I mentioned. Philly must think they can coach him up. OS at this moment they think their QB situation is good enough, right? If you didn't then you go for the QB. But Philly thinks he's good enough to be coached up, right?
-----------------------
"Especially if you (still) think you can work with them, coach them up, make them better, and help you win games."
This is likely a reaction to the Tampa game where he made the two terrible picks that cost them the game - thinking far too much.
Ty Webb
But did Aikman mention that the Giants WRs were worst in the league in gaining separation?
I'm sure Aikman's decision making would've suffered if he was throwing to the receivers DJ had, who were blanketed by defenders, vs. Irvin, Harper, Smith and Novacek.
Let's see how DJ does this yr. Pretty sure his decision making will improve with multiple open receivers.
That won't be the case this year.
Your comments about Engram and Garrett especially stuck with me....mainly because I believe we would be better off with both gone.....but you have given me something to think about. I will have much more forgiveness for Garrett now, but Engram is going to have to earn my trust. Too many drops and too many going off his hands into opposing hands for my liking. He is going to have to show me that kind of stuff is a thing of the past, no forgiveness yet. But with Garrett, you make a valid point....shorten the game and play conservatively probably was the thinking, especially knowing we had really very little playmakers on offense. We can’t say that now. We shall see. Again, thanks.
He has an upside. You don't dump him. He's way too talented to dump. He's a cheap stud. Wait until you see what he does with TWO full seasons. He's basically a wide receiver out there!
He has an upside. You don't dump him. He's way too talented to dump. He's a cheap stud. Wait until you see what he does with TWO full season.
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when you said Engram was better than you thought.
He has an upside. You don't dump him. He's way too talented to dump. He's a cheap stud. Wait until you see what he does with TWO full seasons. He's basically a wide receiver out there!
If he's a wide receiver he's gotta catch. There's no getting around that.
Motherfucking stud.
Motherfucking stud.
11 drops, nearly quadruple his number a year ago playing in almost twice as many games (he played nine in 2019) and one of the league leaders in that category.
Judge is great
The wide receivers were terrible
Jones is an enigma
The schedule was hard
The Giants were unlucky
Leonard Williams is a star
Forgive me, but those are not exactly earth shattering insights. They've been bandied around here for months. And when "unlucky" and the "schedule was hard", not terribly objective either.
Feel better. Go Giants!
Is this post meant to add something of consequence, or do you just like to hear yourself type?