It may be that the addition of Toney, Golliday and and Rudolph will allow Jones to throw for more yards and touchdowns, but they say that a QB's best friend is a good running game. I am still in the camp that would have liked to see them add a better guard than Zach Fulton. Hope I am wrong.
winners and losers - (
New Window )
Can they pass block well enough? That the question....
Can they pass block well enough? That the question....
I wonder if due to covid they actually got a year in an NFL weight room. I know they are skipping optional workouts now
Having Barkley back AND a good WR corp will help Jones tremendously.
Doesn't mean that it is unfortunate that the OL was not given a bit more attention this offseason.
Peart looked substantially bigger in the right places....very impressive.
I suspect similar results for the other rookies....
OL in college with school, practice etc...end up having trouble keeping weight on....
an NFL off-season...on site or not....all they do is workout gaining good weight, usually.
When you have great weapons and a mobile QB, an average oline is helped out and will look better than it is.
The reality is you can't have everything, in a salary cap, be great.
We need the oline to not allow the d in the backfield at the snap. We need just decent wholes for Barkley. Jones needs to be able to go through more than 1 read without getting smacked from the blindside or from a stunt. With great weapons, 3 reads may be good enough but maybe he doesnt get to stand back there for 5 receivers.
They might still have hope to sign for more dollars....but the musical chairs have stopped....and too many players are left without a chair.
Players will start signing with teams at vet. minimum soon...vet. guards missing years is not good for them
My only concern/question, is why did the offensive line play so much better with McCoy as the starter? I don’t think McCoy is the better qb by a long shot, but the offense was much cleaner with him in the lineup.
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then he is beyond anyone's help, he is what he is, and we are in the market for a qb before we waste everything else that has been assembled.
Heaven forbid the Jones crowd miss an opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over.
Yeah, it never gets old. I mean, it never gets new.
Giants did plenty to help DJ. If he doesn't get it done this year, stop with the excuses.
Seems like there are some that believe that OLinemen can come in as a rookie and be great and if they don’t they should be replaced because clearly they are not the answer.
My only concern/question, is why did the offensive line play so much better with McCoy as the starter? I don’t think McCoy is the better qb by a long shot, but the offense was much cleaner with him in the lineup.
Two reasons might be that 1) it was the 2nd half of a season that lacked preseason games, and 2-3 starters were rookies, and 2) with McCoy as QB, Garrett called more running and fewer passing plays. We're better run blocking than pass blocking.
They might still have hope to sign for more dollars....but the musical chairs have stopped....and too many players are left without a chair.
Players will start signing with teams at vet. minimum soon...vet. guards missing years is not good for them
Who are a few of the best available Guards?
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There are still a ton of unsigned quality FA guards.
They might still have hope to sign for more dollars....but the musical chairs have stopped....and too many players are left without a chair.
Players will start signing with teams at vet. minimum soon...vet. guards missing years is not good for them
Who are a few of the best available Guards?
This is the problem. Who? They signed who they believe was a good addition and though someone new may shake loose that’s speculation. That someone would have to be better than what they have to be worth signing and be cheap enough to afford. Who knows if that will happen. I have my doubts.
and better quality weapons but, but if they don't improve on the pass blocking it is going to be all running plays and screen passes.
We will see.
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In the 2nd half of the season, especially Thomas.
My only concern/question, is why did the offensive line play so much better with McCoy as the starter? I don’t think McCoy is the better qb by a long shot, but the offense was much cleaner with him in the lineup.
Two reasons might be that 1) it was the 2nd half of a season that lacked preseason games, and 2-3 starters were rookies, and 2) with McCoy as QB, Garrett called more running and fewer passing plays. We're better run blocking than pass blocking.
I agree and think the OL would've looked better in the 2nd half of season with Jones also, if it wasn't for his injury. He was severely hobbled for the AZ and Baltimore games.
Link - ( New Window )
Think about it.
You will see Toney split out to one side.
Golladay split out on the other side.
Slayton out there somewhere.
Engram threatening to run seam routes from TE
And Barkley lining up wherever.
If you are the DC or wearing the helmet calling defensive signals who are you going to double or focus on?
Get a little motion going on the O and the defenses we see could end up running around like chickens with their heads cut off.
I can see Danny Boy throwing quick type passes over the middle or smoke screens to the boundaries.
If all else fails our QB can fake a handoff to Barkley and run around the end on a Run option for mega yardage.
Quick hitting plays to our multitude of weapons and roll outs for our mobile qb should effectively mitigate any planned blitzes or pass rush.
I am not worried about our interior OL.
Defensive coordinators should be worried about our weaponry
Give this staff a shot. They have more faith in the young players than fans do. Last year was mess of a preseason. They invested heavily in Oline coaching for a reason.
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In comment 15258308 George from PA said:
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There are still a ton of unsigned quality FA guards.
They might still have hope to sign for more dollars....but the musical chairs have stopped....and too many players are left without a chair.
Players will start signing with teams at vet. minimum soon...vet. guards missing years is not good for them
Who are a few of the best available Guards?
This is the problem. Who? They signed who they believe was a good addition and though someone new may shake loose that’s speculation. That someone would have to be better than what they have to be worth signing and be cheap enough to afford. Who knows if that will happen. I have my doubts.
I don't know who which is why I asked.
Poster said there are a ton of unsigned quality Guards...who?
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it could run block. I salivated to watch Barkley run through the holes Gallman was given.....add a year in an NFL weight room.....I suspect, the running game will be most improved.
Can they pass block well enough? That the question....
I wonder if due to covid they actually got a year in an NFL weight room. I know they are skipping optional workouts now
Weights are weights. They have access to an NFL training program even if they're being asked to do some of it remotely (which most players do during the offseason anyway).
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In comment 15258336 Jimmy Googs said:
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In comment 15258308 George from PA said:
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There are still a ton of unsigned quality FA guards.
I don't know who which is why I asked.
Poster said there are a ton of unsigned quality Guards...who?
Which is pretty typical of these kind of posts, no? “Ton of unsigned quality FA guards.” Sure because he said so and the Giants don’t realize that and the rest of the league doesn’t need quality FA guards. They’re just waiting for us to take our pick of them before they sign theirs. ???
Poster said there are a ton of unsigned quality Guards...who?
Which is pretty typical of these kind of posts, no? “Ton of unsigned quality FA guards.” Sure because he said so and the Giants don’t realize that and the rest of the league doesn’t need quality FA guards. They’re just waiting for us to take our pick of them before they sign theirs. ???
See for yourselves, you imgrates!
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then he is beyond anyone's help, he is what he is, and we are in the market for a qb before we waste everything else that has been assembled.
Heaven forbid the Jones crowd miss an opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over.
Much to the chagrin of the "anti Jones crowd" the Giants will likely see enough to pick up his option. Only after that we will see him become what he is. I believe that he will be a top ten QB in the league and an occasional pro bowler who ends up winning us many more games than he loses for us. He might even win us a Super Bowl and earn MVP of the game.
Why so many of you would rather see the opposite is just bizarre.
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In the 2nd half of the season, especially Thomas.
My only concern/question, is why did the offensive line play so much better with McCoy as the starter? I don’t think McCoy is the better qb by a long shot, but the offense was much cleaner with him in the lineup.
Two reasons might be that 1) it was the 2nd half of a season that lacked preseason games, and 2-3 starters were rookies, and 2) with McCoy as QB, Garrett called more running and fewer passing plays. We're better run blocking than pass blocking.
Yeah, it was noticeable how much more conservative the gamelan became when McCoy came in, which begs the question, why weren’t they more conservative with Jones?
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In comment 15258300 HomerJones45 said:
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Why so many of you would rather see the opposite is just bizarre.
Posters liek you are so odd. What makes you think any Giant fan wants to SEE the tema fail?
It is just so odd that some fo you who think that anyone that disagrees with you it must mean they want the Giants to lose?
Why is it so hard for some of you to grasp that the world isn't built around your opinion? We can want the Giants to win but are fearful that the team won't win that much. After all - Vegas has odds right now for Giants ot win 7 games.
You have a great opportunity to be a mega-millionaire by going with the over then, right? If you don't then maybe I can twist a conversation to suggesting that you are one of those posters to lose because you're unwilling to prove that the team is going to be so good? All it takes is an 8-9 season. If you aren't as confident as other posters then IT MUST MEAN that you want the Giants to lose (sarcasm).
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then he is beyond anyone's help, he is what he is, and we are in the market for a qb before we waste everything else that has been assembled.
Heaven forbid the Jones crowd miss an opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over.
Its unreal. Hopefully he will play well boners like Homer, bw and Googs will STFU.
Actually they wont. They will compare his good numbers with any other QB drafted lower than he was drafted and start yapping about him being a reach.
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In comment 15258304 BillT said:
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In comment 15258300 HomerJones45 said:
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Why so many of you would rather see the opposite is just bizarre.
Posters liek you are so odd. What makes you think any Giant fan wants to SEE the tema fail?
It is just so odd that some fo you who think that anyone that disagrees with you it must mean they want the Giants to lose?
Why is it so hard for some of you to grasp that the world isn't built around your opinion? We can want the Giants to win but are fearful that the team won't win that much. After all - Vegas has odds right now for Giants ot win 7 games.
You have a great opportunity to be a mega-millionaire by going with the over then, right? If you don't then maybe I can twist a conversation to suggesting that you are one of those posters to lose because you're unwilling to prove that the team is going to be so good? All it takes is an 8-9 season. If you aren't as confident as other posters then IT MUST MEAN that you want the Giants to lose (sarcasm).
Its been discussed around here...there are posters who would rather be correct about a hastily contrived opinion by poor performance from the team than reverse their course and admit they were talking out of their ass.
They also got a lot of playmakers on defense, and signed LW, which means that Jones really only needs to be a game manager for the Giants to compete in most games. The truth about Jones at this point is that we’re all really mostly hoping he stops being a turnover machine and that he can stay health enough to avoid starting the backup. If he doesn’t have enough help this season the next thing the Giants will do to help will be to find someone who can replace him.
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In comment 15258444 LeonBright45 said:
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In comment 15258304 BillT said:
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Its been discussed around here...there are posters who would rather be correct about a hastily contrived opinion by poor performance from the team than reverse their course and admit they were talking out of their ass.
Which posters can you identify that would rather see their team lose than be wrong on here?
"Being discussed around here" does not mean the discussion had any validity.
So who are the posters?
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In comment 15258483 giantstock said:
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In comment 15258444 LeonBright45 said:
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In comment 15258304 BillT said:
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Its been discussed around here...there are posters who would rather be correct about a hastily contrived opinion by poor performance from the team than reverse their course and admit they were talking out of their ass.
Which posters can you identify that would rather see their team lose than be wrong on here?
"Being discussed around here" does not mean the discussion had any validity.
So who are the posters?
Ive already mentiined 2 of them on here. Another one pretty blatant about boasting how he os always right despite never attesting to when he overplays his hand. However, recently, he has shown himself to be a lot more in favor of Jones being successful. Im not sure why, but his opinion of Jones the QB and mine have gotten a lot closer to being aligned than previously.
agreed and with plenty of draft capital next year they can draft reinforcements to the line if the kids fall flat this year
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In comment 15258483 giantstock said:
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In comment 15258444 LeonBright45 said:
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In comment 15258304 BillT said:
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Its been discussed around here...there are posters who would rather be correct about a hastily contrived opinion by poor performance from the team than reverse their course and admit they were talking out of their ass.
Which posters can you identify that would rather see their team lose than be wrong on here?
"Being discussed around here" does not mean the discussion had any validity.
So who are the posters?
Just check any game thread from last yr.
They also got a lot of playmakers on defense, and signed LW, which means that Jones really only needs to be a game manager for the Giants to compete in most games. The truth about Jones at this point is that we’re all really mostly hoping he stops being a turnover machine and that he can stay health enough to avoid starting the backup. If he doesn’t have enough help this season the next thing the Giants will do to help will be to find someone who can replace him.
I would have taken Sage Surratt over Rodarius Williams since Williams feels like a redundancy while we don't have any redundancies at X-type wide receiver should Golladay go down. Also, I would have taken another running back over Gary Brightwell, just not sure who. Brightwell's not a particularly good pass catcher or protector; if he's going to be a third-down back to catch passes out of the backfield or pick up the blitz, he'd be the wrong choice; dropped 5 out of 13 targets and allowed 4 out of 44 pressures.
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In comment 15258300 HomerJones45 said:
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then he is beyond anyone's help, he is what he is, and we are in the market for a qb before we waste everything else that has been assembled.
Heaven forbid the Jones crowd miss an opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over.
Its unreal. Hopefully he will play well boners like Homer, bw and Googs will STFU.
Actually they wont. They will compare his good numbers with any other QB drafted lower than he was drafted and start yapping about him being a reach.
Hahaha oh man you guys can't help yourselves. GT, BW, and Googs have not posted in this thread and yet here you are talking about them.
Maybe they're not the reason threads get derailed.
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In comment 15258304 BillT said:
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In comment 15258300 HomerJones45 said:
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then he is beyond anyone's help, he is what he is, and we are in the market for a qb before we waste everything else that has been assembled.
Heaven forbid the Jones crowd miss an opportunity to say the same thing over and over and over.
Its unreal. Hopefully he will play well boners like Homer, bw and Googs will STFU.
Actually they wont. They will compare his good numbers with any other QB drafted lower than he was drafted and start yapping about him being a reach.
Hahaha oh man you guys can't help yourselves. GT, BW, and Googs have not posted in this thread and yet here you are talking about them.
Maybe they're not the reason threads get derailed.
Maybe look again stupid.
Also, there is probably a good enough reason for them not to after getting preemptively called out.
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Realistically, what else could possibly have been done to help Jones? Maybe drafting Rashawn? But then you don’t have KT to make plays. He got the best available FA to play X, he got KT to make plays from the backfield or slot or y or anywhere else, Barks is coming back, EE wasn’t traded he got Rudolph, Sheps back they signed Ross for occasional speed shots down field. Seriously, what else could the Giants have done to enable Jones?
They also got a lot of playmakers on defense, and signed LW, which means that Jones really only needs to be a game manager for the Giants to compete in most games. The truth about Jones at this point is that we’re all really mostly hoping he stops being a turnover machine and that he can stay health enough to avoid starting the backup. If he doesn’t have enough help this season the next thing the Giants will do to help will be to find someone who can replace him.
I would have taken Sage Surratt over Rodarius Williams since Williams feels like a redundancy while we don't have any redundancies at X-type wide receiver should Golladay go down. Also, I would have taken another running back over Gary Brightwell, just not sure who. Brightwell's not a particularly good pass catcher or protector; if he's going to be a third-down back to catch passes out of the backfield or pick up the blitz, he'd be the wrong choice; dropped 5 out of 13 targets and allowed 4 out of 44 pressures.
Brightwell may turn out to be the RB equivalent of David Tyree - a real asset on Special Teams, but an infrequent contributor on offense (unless, of course, the Giants make it back to the Super Bowl, God willing). He wasn't drafted to be a 3rd down back, although with his size he might become serviceable in short-yardage situations.
As for Rodarius Williams...can you ever have enough CB's? The way the game is played now, probably not. I liked Sage Surratt, too, but clearly the league didn't think too much of him since he went undrafted. And, honestly, is there anything that he can do that a healthy David Sills or Dante Pettis can't?
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In comment 15258524 trueblueinpw said:
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Realistically, what else could possibly have been done to help Jones? Maybe drafting Rashawn? But then you don’t have KT to make plays. He got the best available FA to play X, he got KT to make plays from the backfield or slot or y or anywhere else, Barks is coming back, EE wasn’t traded he got Rudolph, Sheps back they signed Ross for occasional speed shots down field. Seriously, what else could the Giants have done to enable Jones?
They also got a lot of playmakers on defense, and signed LW, which means that Jones really only needs to be a game manager for the Giants to compete in most games. The truth about Jones at this point is that we’re all really mostly hoping he stops being a turnover machine and that he can stay health enough to avoid starting the backup. If he doesn’t have enough help this season the next thing the Giants will do to help will be to find someone who can replace him.
I would have taken Sage Surratt over Rodarius Williams since Williams feels like a redundancy while we don't have any redundancies at X-type wide receiver should Golladay go down. Also, I would have taken another running back over Gary Brightwell, just not sure who. Brightwell's not a particularly good pass catcher or protector; if he's going to be a third-down back to catch passes out of the backfield or pick up the blitz, he'd be the wrong choice; dropped 5 out of 13 targets and allowed 4 out of 44 pressures.
Brightwell may turn out to be the RB equivalent of David Tyree - a real asset on Special Teams, but an infrequent contributor on offense (unless, of course, the Giants make it back to the Super Bowl, God willing). He wasn't drafted to be a 3rd down back, although with his size he might become serviceable in short-yardage situations.
As for Rodarius Williams...can you ever have enough CB's? The way the game is played now, probably not. I liked Sage Surratt, too, but clearly the league didn't think too much of him since he went undrafted. And, honestly, is there anything that he can do that a healthy David Sills or Dante Pettis can't?
I don't know what Sills can do considering he broke his foot before the season opened.
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In comment 15258600 Angel Eyes said:
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In comment 15258524 trueblueinpw said:
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Realistically, what else could possibly have been done to help Jones? Maybe drafting Rashawn? But then you don’t have KT to make plays. He got the best available FA to play X, he got KT to make plays from the backfield or slot or y or anywhere else, Barks is coming back, EE wasn’t traded he got Rudolph, Sheps back they signed Ross for occasional speed shots down field. Seriously, what else could the Giants have done to enable Jones?
They also got a lot of playmakers on defense, and signed LW, which means that Jones really only needs to be a game manager for the Giants to compete in most games. The truth about Jones at this point is that we’re all really mostly hoping he stops being a turnover machine and that he can stay health enough to avoid starting the backup. If he doesn’t have enough help this season the next thing the Giants will do to help will be to find someone who can replace him.
I would have taken Sage Surratt over Rodarius Williams since Williams feels like a redundancy while we don't have any redundancies at X-type wide receiver should Golladay go down. Also, I would have taken another running back over Gary Brightwell, just not sure who. Brightwell's not a particularly good pass catcher or protector; if he's going to be a third-down back to catch passes out of the backfield or pick up the blitz, he'd be the wrong choice; dropped 5 out of 13 targets and allowed 4 out of 44 pressures.
Brightwell may turn out to be the RB equivalent of David Tyree - a real asset on Special Teams, but an infrequent contributor on offense (unless, of course, the Giants make it back to the Super Bowl, God willing). He wasn't drafted to be a 3rd down back, although with his size he might become serviceable in short-yardage situations.
As for Rodarius Williams...can you ever have enough CB's? The way the game is played now, probably not. I liked Sage Surratt, too, but clearly the league didn't think too much of him since he went undrafted. And, honestly, is there anything that he can do that a healthy David Sills or Dante Pettis can't?
I don't know what Sills can do considering he broke his foot before the season opened.
You can compare his college stats to Sage Surratt's, and note that I said a healthy David Sills.
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In comment 15258640 Klaatu said:
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In comment 15258600 Angel Eyes said:
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In comment 15258524 trueblueinpw said:
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Realistically, what else could possibly have been done to help Jones? Maybe drafting Rashawn? But then you don’t have KT to make plays. He got the best available FA to play X, he got KT to make plays from the backfield or slot or y or anywhere else, Barks is coming back, EE wasn’t traded he got Rudolph, Sheps back they signed Ross for occasional speed shots down field. Seriously, what else could the Giants have done to enable Jones?
They also got a lot of playmakers on defense, and signed LW, which means that Jones really only needs to be a game manager for the Giants to compete in most games. The truth about Jones at this point is that we’re all really mostly hoping he stops being a turnover machine and that he can stay health enough to avoid starting the backup. If he doesn’t have enough help this season the next thing the Giants will do to help will be to find someone who can replace him.
I would have taken Sage Surratt over Rodarius Williams since Williams feels like a redundancy while we don't have any redundancies at X-type wide receiver should Golladay go down. Also, I would have taken another running back over Gary Brightwell, just not sure who. Brightwell's not a particularly good pass catcher or protector; if he's going to be a third-down back to catch passes out of the backfield or pick up the blitz, he'd be the wrong choice; dropped 5 out of 13 targets and allowed 4 out of 44 pressures.
Brightwell may turn out to be the RB equivalent of David Tyree - a real asset on Special Teams, but an infrequent contributor on offense (unless, of course, the Giants make it back to the Super Bowl, God willing). He wasn't drafted to be a 3rd down back, although with his size he might become serviceable in short-yardage situations.
As for Rodarius Williams...can you ever have enough CB's? The way the game is played now, probably not. I liked Sage Surratt, too, but clearly the league didn't think too much of him since he went undrafted. And, honestly, is there anything that he can do that a healthy David Sills or Dante Pettis can't?
I don't know what Sills can do considering he broke his foot before the season opened.
You can compare his college stats to Sage Surratt's, and note that I said a healthy David Sills.
I see your point.
To say the least: impressive. Most impressive.
David Sills stats sheet - ( New Window )